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profan
11-22-2006, 12:54 PM
I sure would like to see Sage start for one game. Not to bash carr, but to see what he can do. He has 3 td's in less than 1/2 of a game. Carr has 9 td passes for the entire season. It seams to me carr is dumping off short passes, when someone else may have a better vision downfield. We finally got the running game carr has been talking about needing, but we still only manage 14 points. While kubiak has pulled carr and has supposedly been tough on him, the fact is carr knows the position is his and there really is no competition at this position for the starting job. As long as carr plays anywhere from average to good the position is his. How will we know if we have a better qb on the bench if he does not get to start a whole game. He did well in preseason and in the titan game. Play him for one game, what could it hurt, playoff chances? Maybe draft position.

Honoring Earl 34
11-22-2006, 12:58 PM
:hunter: You better duck or say your sorry real fast .

wolfscar
11-22-2006, 01:12 PM
I sure would like to see Sage start for one game. Not to bash carr, but to see what he can do. He has 3 td's in less than 1/2 of a game. Carr has 9 td passes for the entire season. It seams to me carr is dumping off short passes, when someone else may have a better vision downfield. We finally got the running game carr has been talking about needing, but we still only manage 14 points. While kubiak has pulled carr and has supposedly been tough on him, the fact is carr knows the position is his and there really is no competition at this position for the starting job. As long as carr plays anywhere from average to good the position is his. How will we know if we have a better qb on the bench if he does not get to start a whole game. He did well in preseason and in the titan game. Play him for one game, what could it hurt, playoff chances? Maybe draft position.

For me there's no real question about whether Sage Rosenfels is a starting QB - for any team. He's a solid backup and has proven himself to be that. I don't think there's anything left to prove, really.

And I know Carr throws a lot of short passes, but he's doing it extremely well and it's getting us consistent yardage (consecutive completions record - that's no mean feat). He did go downfield a fair few times last game - on single coverage for the most part - but Nate Clements didn't give Andre an inch of space on the long routes.

I do see your point: "what could it hurt?" But I just don't see what it could help. Carr is our starter and I'd rather see him keep developing than put Sage out there for another run out down the stretch. :twocents:

Kaiser Toro
11-22-2006, 01:49 PM
To one of the member's points this is about the Texans. If the season continues to go south what would it hurt to develop our second stringer with a full start. The Browns game would not hurt anyone in my opinion if we cannot post two wins in the next three weeks.

Honoring Earl 34
11-22-2006, 01:52 PM
How much does Sage need to develop ... I mean at this point who's the more seasoned NFL QB ?

Wharton
11-22-2006, 02:04 PM
I don't think DC's got it and therefore in the spirit of building for the future, play Sage for a few games. See how he does. Maybe we don't have to spend our first draft pick on a new QB.

profan
11-22-2006, 02:18 PM
Seriously!!! I mean are you really serious?

If we're going to be paying this kid big bucks for the next three years I want to see him to continue to improve over a full season.

Kubes has got him looking much better than last year and he did complete 22 in a row last week....REMEMBER!!!!

Jesus people get off of him!! I know we want to see more throws over the middle and deep routes, does'nt everyone? No one cheers for the dump offs and quick slants, but that's what this offense is based on this season so get used to it.

Until Kubiak comes out in one of his Monday pressers and says "I want to see David throw it downfield more often" We need to all shut the **** up about that.

He's rebuilding the kids confidence and mechanics this year. David was all but destroyed after Dumb Dumb Capers was done with him.Think about how jacked up your head would be after being the league leader in getting pounded into the ground for FOUR seasons.

Let Kubes work him over the rest of the season and the offseason and I GUARANTEE we will see a confident, gun slingin, bad mofo of a QB next year.:wild:

Otherwise I will eat CROW for breakfeast, lunch, and dinner for the entire season!!

Go David Carr!!!! And Go Texans!!!:superman:

Man, chill out. Just suggesting this position should be evaluated the same as others. How do you know which is the best qb if you never give your guy on the bench a chance in a regular season game? If Drew Bledsoe would not have gotten hurt, we may never have heard of Tom Brady. How do we know that Sage is not the next Tom Brady. Like, I said this is not a carr bashing, i cheer for him every week and will never boo the guy, but i would like to see what Sage can do. jmo

TEXANSTAILGATER
11-22-2006, 02:48 PM
our guy

HOU-TEX
11-22-2006, 02:55 PM
Sage is our guy!

Sure! Just like he was in Miami behind Feeley and Fiedler. lol

Honoring Earl 34
11-22-2006, 02:58 PM
Sure! Just like he was in Miami behind Feeley and Fiedler. lol

So where does Carr fit in that group ?

HOU-TEX
11-22-2006, 03:04 PM
So where does Carr fit in that group ?

LOL! Good point! I'm not sure. Let's give him another 4 years in the new system, then we'll know. LOL

JDizzle
11-22-2006, 03:12 PM
I felt we should have done this last year with Ragone towards the end of the season, just to see where he was at since his first shot a couple years earlier (disasters) and possibly to boost any kind of trade value. I don't think we'll see Sage unless Carr goes Kurt Warner or gets hurt though, although I am with you in that I would like to see Sage a couple times to see if the Titan game was just a fluke.

Texan_Bill
11-22-2006, 03:16 PM
I felt we should have done this last year with Ragone towards the end of the season, just to see where he was at since his first shot a couple years earlier (disasters) and possibly to boost any kind of trade value. I don't think we'll see Sage unless Carr goes Kurt Warner or gets hurt though, although I am with you in that I would like to see Sage a couple times to see if the Titan game was just a fluke.

The Titans game was no fluke... Thats what Rosenfels is, a back-up that can come in cold off the bench and spark the O a little bit.. He's a pretty good relief pitcher - but by no means a starter.

JDizzle
11-22-2006, 03:46 PM
A little bit? That's the best the O has looked all year.

Wolf
11-22-2006, 04:00 PM
wow some of the point of views on this is funny

Texan_Bill
11-22-2006, 04:18 PM
What I find funny, is that Sage gets a lot of those yards and TD's late in a game and he's the savior... Another QB does the same thing and it's "he's padding his stats in garbage time" - Hillarious!!

News Flash: The Titans game wasn't nearly as close of a game as the 28-22 final might suggest.

Sage couldn't win the starting job in Miami - when it was gift wrapped for him. He's a career back-up and there's nothing wrong with that... A lot of teams would like Sage as a back-up and I'm glad he's here as our back-up.

Wolf
11-22-2006, 04:18 PM
well what I was going to say is it is funny that if Carr would have not been benched and did what Sage did, we'd call it garbage stats and that the Titans were so far ahead they changed their defensive scheme (I can't find the link, but McClain had an article and also a Titan poster (can't remember the name) but seemed pretty credible over the years with his/her football knowledge (read some of his/her work on the titan boards and not just on this board.


with that said, I stand corrected,Sage's stats are pretty good over the years so who knows maybe give Sage a shot(not that I am saying Carr hasn't played well and should be bench, but I am open minded)

everything you needed to know about Sage and his stats
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/5557/situational;_ylt=AsYFA.TUzO.6H1d7jrIQFTr.uLYF

and Carrs
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/5887/situational

Wolf
11-22-2006, 04:19 PM
What I find funny, is that Sage gets a lot of those yards and TD's late in a game and he's the savior... Another QB does the same thing and it's "he's padding his stats in garbage time" - Hillarious!!

News Flash: The Titans game wasn't nearly as close as the 28-22 final that people think it was.

Sage couldn't win the starting job in Miami - when it was gift wrapped for him. He's a career back-up and there's nothing wrong with that... A lot of teams would like Sage as a back-up and I'm glad he's here as our back-up.

you did a better job expressing my thoughts than I did

Honoring Earl 34
11-22-2006, 04:28 PM
News Flash: The Titans game wasn't nearly as close of a game as the 28-22 final might suggest.

I don't even remember that game ... how did we get that far behind ?

SESupergenius
11-22-2006, 04:42 PM
I don't know but this gets frustrating to hear. I mean Carr gets hurt in the 4th quarter of the Jacksonville game with the Texans up by a few points. In comes Rosenfels and doesn't do squat against the Jags and "does what he's supposed to do" in not causing a turnover. Then Carr does the same thing against the Giants and Bills and guess what, he's supposed to not let them score TD's.

Then Rosenfels gets mop up time against the Titans when the Texans are down by 18 points and everyone thinks he's supergreat because he throws a couple of TD's. Carr threw 3 TD's late against the Colts in mop up time, but seriously can anyone guage their performances from this???

It just such a crock at this point to debate Carr vs Rosenfels. The defense has let the other teams score late in how many games now?

Texan_Bill
11-22-2006, 04:48 PM
[QUOTE=SESupergenius;507820]I don't know but this gets frustrating to hear. I mean Carr gets hurt in the 4th quarter of the Jacksonville game with the Texans up by a few points. In comes Rosenfels and doesn't do squat against the Jags and "does what he's supposed to do" in not causing a turnover. Then Carr does the same thing against the Giants and Bills and guess what, he's supposed to not let them score TD's.

Then Rosenfels gets mop up time against the Titans when the Texans are down by 18 points and everyone thinks he's supergreat because he throws a couple of TD's. Carr threw 3 TD's late against the Colts in mop up time, but seriously can anyone guage their performances from this???

It just such a crock at this point to debate Carr vs Rosenfels. The defense has let the other teams score late in how many games now?[/ [QUOTE]

Warmer....... Warmer.......... HOT!!!!

Hulk75
11-22-2006, 04:59 PM
I just throw up in my mouth!

Double Barrel
11-22-2006, 05:02 PM
Sage for 1 Game

As long as our opponent plays a cover 2 prevent the whole game, I'm all for it! ;)

Texan_Bill
11-22-2006, 05:11 PM
As long as our opponent plays a cover 2 prevent the whole game, I'm all for it! ;)

Right... In that case lets change it to Texan_Bill for 1 Game.

I think I might have a good game against that.

Kaiser Toro
11-22-2006, 05:18 PM
Right... In that case lets change it to Texan_Bill for 1 Game.

I think I might have a good game against that.

You are off the list and in the line up. I am willing to try anything at this moment for our team to crack the cover 2 code.

Wolf
11-22-2006, 05:20 PM
Right... In that case lets change it to Texan_Bill for 1 Game.

I think I might have a good game against that.

Can you punt too,so we can save a roster spot :heh:

Texan_Bill
11-22-2006, 05:23 PM
Can you punt too,so we can save a roster spot :heh:

I never could punt. I tried it a couple of times in HS, but I could only get a couple to turn over. HOWEVER, I did a little PK... Not a super strong leg, but I would venture to say at age (__) I could still hit a 30 yarder.

Texan_Bill
11-22-2006, 05:25 PM
You are off the list and in the line up. I am willing to try anything at this moment for our team to crack the cover 2 code.

Thanks for taking me off the list Francis...... Oh crap, I know, I'm back on the list.

Honoring Earl 34
11-22-2006, 05:28 PM
It just such a crock at this point to debate Carr vs Rosenfels. The defense has let the other teams score late in how many games now?

Who's ranked higher in scoring the offense or the defense ? The defense is 24th and the offense is 28th .

Wolf
11-22-2006, 05:39 PM
Who's ranked higher in scoring the offense or the defense ? The defense is 24th and the offense is 28th .

apples and oranges

Honoring Earl 34
11-22-2006, 05:50 PM
No , our defense despite its pitiful start , rookies , new DC , and system has passed up the offense .

Wolf
11-22-2006, 05:54 PM
defense has improved overall, but injuries are taking effect over there.

Wolf
11-22-2006, 05:58 PM
No , our defense despite its pitiful start , rookies , new DC , and system has passed up the offense .

nice.. and the offense doesn't have the same thing?

new OC, new system, rookie TE,rookie RB,rookie Tackle (spencer injured,Winston now at RT)

injuries are part of it, and IMO, both squads have a ways to go.

what troubles me is we can't get pressure on the QB with our front 4 unless we are in blitz mode.. that is the perception I see. not bashing the defense or anything just stating

Vinny
11-22-2006, 05:59 PM
I try to stay out of junk threads but I've been a critic of his ceiling so I'll say something. I think it would be amateur hour if they started Sage. Nothing against Sage of course...he has proven to be exactly what Kubiak has said he would be.

Big money players get paid big money because they make big plays. After 10 weeks Carr has proven he is able to manage games and stay away from huge mistakes. He deserves the shot to continue to prove he is a playmaker since Kubiak has stated over and over that Carr has a long ways to go. Grab some popcorn because Carr is going to play and we will all have to ride that wave and try to be patient since as Kubiak himself said...as Carr goes, the team goes. He said it, not me.

Texan_Bill
11-22-2006, 06:03 PM
If ya swat the flies off dung, its still dung....

In other words
24th v 28th... Both are bad... To suggest Sage somehow can make a major impact on the 28th rating is living in fantasy land.

Texan_Bill
11-22-2006, 06:04 PM
No , our defense despite its pitiful start , rookies , new DC , and system has passed up the offense .

It's pitiful start reared its ugly head last week too.

Honoring Earl 34
11-22-2006, 06:20 PM
Actually Kubiak said the defense did its job and kept the Texans in the game long enough for the offense to make one play to win it .

Think about it the defense scored 7 pts but gave up 21 for a net of 14 pts . The offense scored how many .

cuppacoffee
11-23-2006, 09:05 AM
News Flash: The Titans game wasn't nearly as close of a game as the 28-22 final might suggest.

I don't even remember that game ... how did we get that far behind ?

Carr and his lack of throwing touchdowns!

:um:...You did forget your :sarcasm:........didn't you?

:coffee:

mganz
11-23-2006, 10:13 AM
Carr and his lack of throwing touchdowns!

It was the inability to protect the ball. That is the ONLY game that I put soley on Carr as a loss.

kingh99
11-23-2006, 10:27 AM
You are off the list and in the line up. I am willing to try anything at this moment for our team to crack the cover 2 code.

SO I hear Gary Kubiak for a split second sound bite talking about the upcoming game and what does he say, something to the effect "we are going to have to be patient, some call it dink and dunk".

dear Mr. Kubiak. Did you ever stop to consider even for a moment this is exactly what they want you to do - take the easy way out and thrash around between the 20's for 60 minutes with nothing to show for it. Opponents are influencing you toward the "dink and dunk" game because they know they can beat you that way. They don't think Carr has the nad to put the ball in tight spaces and when he does, he makes genius decisions. The extent of his genius is, tunnelvision Andre or RUNNNNNNNNN!!!!!. Bah!

QB75
11-23-2006, 10:40 AM
I don't think DC's got it and therefore in the spirit of building for the future, play Sage for a few games. See how he does. Maybe we don't have to spend our first draft pick on a new QB.

Carr is going to be fine.

Specnatz
11-23-2006, 11:46 AM
SO I hear Gary Kubiak for a split second sound bite talking about the upcoming game and what does he say, something to the effect "we are going to have to be patient, some call it dink and dunk".

dear Mr. Kubiak. Did you ever stop to consider even for a moment this is exactly what they want you to do - take the easy way out and thrash around between the 20's for 60 minutes with nothing to show for it. Opponents are influencing you toward the "dink and dunk" game because they know they can beat you that way. They don't think Carr has the nad to put the ball in tight spaces and when he does, he makes genius decisions. The extent of his genius is, tunnelvision Andre or RUNNNNNNNNN!!!!!. Bah!

Maybe we could use the raiders style of pass offense, I mean 7 step drops and try and see if the QB has time to bomb it down field. It is working oh so well for them right now.

I am not completely sold on Carr for the future but some act like Carr has had everything there on the offensive side of the ball to be successful. Bradford (who until recently was unemployed), Gaffney, NO rec threat at TE, and besides AJ nothing else. An O-line who could not block there way out of a wet paper bag. But lets not look at that, it is the QBs fault for the play calling and the efforts of others on the team.

My evaluation of Carr will be done at seasons end, until then I say keep him in the game. Oh by the way, you can not evauluate someone on the bench.

Kaiser Toro
11-23-2006, 02:01 PM
My evaluation of Carr will be done at seasons end, until then I say keep him in the game. Oh by the way, you can not evauluate someone on the bench.

You can evaluate the team. It is simply a controlling a variable. We have seen in 2003 and this year that when Carr is not in the game we move the ball and win football games. It has not been pretty at times, but the rest of the team responds in Carr's absence.

tex
11-23-2006, 06:18 PM
Not that I don't like Sage but we saw what happened to him when DC got hurt against NY Giants. They was on him like flies on you know what. So stay with your starter.

chuckm
11-23-2006, 09:08 PM
Let's give Sage a shot at RCB and bench Faggins .... or let him punt .....

sleepwalker
11-24-2006, 09:03 AM
Sage is an expensive backup...I think he's one of the highest paid backups in the league.

I'm perfectly willing to stay with *butter fingers* for the rest of the games...We have so many other problems to address.

Bamaborn-Texasbred
11-24-2006, 09:56 AM
Seriously!!! I mean are you really serious?

If we're going to be paying this kid big bucks for the next three years I want to see him to continue to improve over a full season.

Kubes has got him looking much better than last year and he did complete 22 in a row last week....REMEMBER!!!!

Jesus people get off of him!! I know we want to see more throws over the middle and deep routes, does'nt everyone? No one cheers for the dump offs and quick slants, but that's what this offense is based on this season so get used to it.

Until Kubiak comes out in one of his Monday pressers and says "I want to see David throw it downfield more often" We need to all shut the **** up about that.

He's rebuilding the kids confidence and mechanics this year. David was all but destroyed after Dumb Dumb Capers was done with him.Think about how jacked up your head would be after being the league leader in getting pounded into the ground for FOUR seasons.

Let Kubes work him over the rest of the season and the offseason and I GUARANTEE we will see a confident, gun slingin, bad mofo of a QB next year.:wild:

Otherwise I will eat CROW for breakfeast, lunch, and dinner for the entire season!!

Go David Carr!!!! And Go Texans!!!:superman:

Ditto.

Runner
11-24-2006, 10:50 AM
If we're going to be paying this kid big bucks for the next three years I want to see him to continue to improve over a full season.


I'm sorry - I thought this was a Todd Wade thread for a minute. He'd still be starting if the Texans followed this logic. And Marcus Coleman. And some others....

mganz
11-24-2006, 11:07 PM
Dude yeah fumbles are one of Carr's many incidents, but his lack of throwing one touchdown a game is ridiculous. Tony Romo undrafted threw five touchdowns against Tampa Bay. If Carr could play like that I wouldn't complain. If you say we do not have talent. You need to watch the games more closely.

I don't think it matter what Carr does or doesn't do. If we win almost no one complains. If we lose he get all the blame. I can't think of any QB that has been successful with having 3 different offensive co/schemes in there 1st 4-5years. To think anyone would be is retarded. Come on! it was Tampa Bay. I hear about how fast AJ is but I can't remeber the last time he got past his defender. I like AJ and all, and am not defending carr altogether, but I think he needs more than 10 games IN A NEW SYSTEM before we all blast him. I can see significant improvement in him since he was benched. During the Buffalo game he was consistantly stepping into the pocket. He had a few throws down field (15-20 yards) that stopped there. IMO one of the reason for his yardage is because there is very little YAC. I say give him this year to learn the system and improve on his pocket presence/awareness and next year he should be better than average. If he isn't then it's time for a change.

Honoring Earl 34
11-24-2006, 11:26 PM
Things I've noticed ...the Carr fans like calling names and Carr has had two of the best QB coaches in the business ( Kubiak and Palmer ) .

Wolf
11-24-2006, 11:29 PM
Carr has taken Palmers roll on this messageboard.

after every loss I have lost count how many times there were fire Palmer posts.

now Carr is the scapegoat.

Honoring Earl 34
11-24-2006, 11:34 PM
Well Palmer has proven that he really did not lose it . When Bill Parcell hires you thats a ringing endorsement and makes me think it was the pupil not the teacher .

NFLforher
11-25-2006, 12:17 AM
To one of the member's points this is about the Texans. If the season continues to go south what would it hurt to develop our second stringer with a full start. The Browns game would not hurt anyone in my opinion if we cannot post two wins in the next three weeks.

Are you kidding? :snobord:

NFLforher
11-25-2006, 12:18 AM
Sure! Just like he was in Miami behind Feeley and Fiedler. lol


:yahoo:

Kaiser Toro
11-25-2006, 09:05 AM
Are you kidding? :snobord:

No I am not. Are you?

TEXANSTAILGATER
11-25-2006, 09:32 AM
Lookout

bigbrewster2000
11-25-2006, 09:42 AM
Wow, I don't know why but it amazes me that we have to continue reading the same posts in the same threads 7 days a week for the last 5 years. Everyone rehashes the exact same comments from a similar thread. Don't you guys ever get tired of the same old banter......dang it I already answered my question. And whether all here like it or not Kubiak is going to stick with Carr. He apparently likes what he is seeing for the most part. Lets all look back to Kubiaks very first Presser when he said that this team had a long way to go. Personally, I don't care if everyone here is tired of hearing about patience, and that this is our 5th year and blah blah blah. The reality is that we were 2-14 last year for a reason. WE STUNK something fierce. This year we still stink, and next year we may just smell like we havent taken a bath that morning. But when it comes down to it, the team and David are better, and I see promise ut our coaching staff is new and they need more than 10 games or 1 season or even 2 seasons to get the personel that they need to make this team a winner. So I am not going to say anything esle except everyone needs to swallow the realistic pill and watch the coaching staff either make this team better or fall on their faces (again) over the next few seasons.

Wolf
11-25-2006, 04:19 PM
Well Palmer has proven that he really did not lose it . When Bill Parcell hires you thats a ringing endorsement and makes me think it was the pupil not the teacher .
oh so what does that say about kubiak and Reeves and their "endorsement" of Carr (by not drafting Cutler or VY when they had the chance)

Honoring Earl 34
11-25-2006, 04:22 PM
He wanted a job .

Wolf
11-25-2006, 04:38 PM
maybe so, but like for Kubiak.. He's was coaching a super bowl caliber team, why would he put his reputation/career in the hands of someone (Carr) if he really didn't believe him. And he had the option of not resigning Carr and drafting for the future, but chose to resign Carr... I don't buy it. If that was so Carr would have never been benched against the Titans.

and yes I understand that an assistant coach wants to move to a head coaching job, I buy that, I just don't buy that he had every opportunity to not extend Carr's stay here.. Unless the ego card is played.

Honoring Earl 34
11-25-2006, 04:50 PM
So are you saying that if we took the Wonder Women rope of truth and tied up Kubiak ( I'd loved to have been tied up by Wonder Women as a teen ) that he would say everything is how I thought it would be after 10 games concerning Carr .

Runner
11-25-2006, 04:57 PM
So are you saying that if we took the Wonder Women rope of truth and tied up Kubiak ( I'd loved to have been tied up by Wonder Women as a teen ) that he would say everything is how I thought it would be after 10 games concerning Carr .

More likely he would say, "I'm disappointed in the progress I've made with Carr".

I think he thought he could build on Carr's athleticism, but I also think he may not like what he is seeing now.

Wolf
11-25-2006, 04:58 PM
Houston Texans is an entertainment business and I dont' think McNair got rich by hanging onto his favorite people if they weren't doing the job. I don't believe McNair said.."hey, you can have this job, but Carr stays" and if he did, well i would be suprised.

I think after 4 years and a 2-14 year in the 4th year, McNair wouldn't be so nieve to handcuff a coach.

And If the coach was nieve to say whatever just to get the job and didn't believe in the quarterback esp after having a choice with some with the #1 pick in the draft, well this is the NFL (Not For Long if that is the case)

and who knows maybe Kubiak thought Carr was the best option over VY,Leinart or Cutler.

Wolf
11-25-2006, 05:00 PM
More likely he would say, "I'm dispappointed in the progress I've made with Carr".

I think he thought he could build on Carr's athleticism, but I also think he may not like what he is seeing now.

you may be right and if that is the case the Houston Texans are in deep trouble,because I would assume that he doesn't like what he sees out of sage either to make him a starter.

(it is all about the wins)

Honoring Earl 34
11-25-2006, 05:12 PM
I got to listen to a little of the John McClain show yesterday and he thinks if Carr's not the answer then its Sage next year and draft a young guy . I know its the obvious but McClain says Kubiak really likes Sage .