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View Full Version : Now here's a funny thing to observe....


GP
11-20-2006, 11:21 PM
Last season: O line can't even let Carr get a pass off.

This season: 22-in-a-row by Carr/O line/WRs/Coaches. 22 in a row, my friend.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm..........

Funny how last season and during the offseason we all gritched about how no QB could have succeeded with last year's line, coaching, and playcalling. How David was "ruined" and he'd probably ned therapy just to make it out onto the field.

And here you are gritching about David Carr after it seems that it's been a complete 180-degree turn-around from what we saw last year.

Last year we were NEVER in position to even sniff a win. Can't for the life of me understand how we even got TWO wins. I mean, the Kansas City and Seattle debacles were so very sad in terms of how we were finished before the coin flip had taken place.

Now, we're losing a few close games and yet it's still the same old thing: gritch, gritch, gritch about things.

And David is STILL at the top of the list!

Last season, we all dreamed of a day when Carr would have a high passer rating. We couldn't even believe (fully) that Kubiak would be able to do with David and with the offense what he's done.

But losing and winning is what gets noticed and gets spoken about the most.

Anyways...just now thought about the stark contrast from last year to this year. But poor old Houston, we're just so dadgum lousy and awful.

There's some fans in spiked shoulder pads over in California that would probably like to have Kubiak and Carr right now.

It's always worse than you think. Go ask Raiders fan.

Runner
11-20-2006, 11:31 PM
We are still running a pretty stunted offense so the line isn't exposed. Carr said on his radio interview this morning that (paraphrased) the offensive scheme is predicated on getting rid of the ball fast because historically the line hasn't been able to pass protect.

I've seen a lot of posts that state the line is playing pretty well. I think that is more reduced expectations than improvement in play. Sure sacks are down, but Carr is under constant pressure and has a tiny "pocket" if it exists at all. The reduced sacks are a result of him getting rid of the ball faster this year.

I'm not making excuses for Carr in this. I don't think he has played all that well overall even given the circumstances around him. I don't think he has the football sense to overcome problems during plays.

I don't have any one thing at the "top of my list" as the major problem. We have a lot of roughly equal problem areas.

Grid
11-20-2006, 11:33 PM
The same people will be praising our team when we are winning more than we lose... though they will still come out and say "here we go again, I told you we should have replaced Carr" every time we lose a game.

And when we make the playoffs, but dont get to the superbowl, you can look forward to the same guys saying that if we had a different QB we would be superbowl champs right now..

Its depressing. The really sucky part though is this isnt a phase... our team will get better, but our fan base is going to stay like this.. you can tell because we have had weeks where there was alot to be positive about.. and our progress is obvious.. and still we had a few naysayers..and the next week when we lost, they were out in full force again. I think we will always be a fanbase that suffers from "what have you done for me lately". It sucks, cause id like to think that Houstonians are classier than that.

As much as we hate the Cowboy fans and thier arrogance.. I admire them for standing by thier team even when they are rotten. Its just really sad that we cant do the same.

TheRealJoker
11-20-2006, 11:40 PM
The biggest difference is coaching.

Kubiak and co. can disquise a below average O-line's weaknesses much better than Capers and co. ever could.

Next year is our breakout year ladies and gents. The players will have a year in the system under their belts, we'll make some key free agent/draft upgrades on both sides of the ball, and then it'll be really fun to watch :redtowel:

"Carr to Johnson, caught... ROCK AND ROLL TEXANS TOUCHDOWN!!!" :yahoo:

GP
11-20-2006, 11:42 PM
The same people will be praising our team when we are winning more than we lose... though they will still come out and say "here we go again, I told you we should have replaced Carr" every time we lose a game.

And when we make the playoffs, but dont get to the superbowl, you can look forward to the same guys saying that if we had a different QB we would be superbowl champs right now..

Its depressing. The really sucky part though is this isnt a phase... our team will get better, but our fan base is going to stay like this.. you can tell because we have had weeks where there was alot to be positive about.. and our progress is obvious.. and still we had a few naysayers..and the next week when we lost, they were out in full force again. I think we will always be a fanbase that suffers from "what have you done for me lately". It sucks, cause id like to think that Houstonians are classier than that.

As much as we hate the Cowboy fans and thier arrogance.. I admire them for standing by thier team even when they are rotten. Its just really sad that we cant do the same.

You wanna' know why?

Because we're jealous and envious of the Cowboys.

And some people handle that well, and some don't.

The ones that don't handle it well are too embarassed that we lost a game...they're the type that won't go to work on Monday because they're afraid a co-worker will make them cry with the Texans bash talk that happens. Boo-hoo-hoo, my team lost and now I cannot show my face or wear my jersey to the hardware store.

The Astros lost in bad fashion to the White Sox and I yanked on my Astros cap with pride and wore it everywhere. I was dang proud of my team. And I wear my Texans shirt and cap to this day as if we had won the Super Bowl.

Some people care too much about what others think, and some know that winning and losing is cyclical. It just HAPPENS. but some people think their team should nevvvvvvvver lose. And when we don't get the "Ws" then there's heck to pay and it's obviously the pretty golden boy's fault.

I'm wit ya'.

I think there's a true ownership among Cowboys fans. They will go punches on fellow Cowboys fans if they rag on their own team. I don't think we've established a true NFL fan character trait yet. I cannot believe that a guy on this board has said he's quitting this team until we win again.

Sad. This is a team that's going to surprise a lot of people. There are a FEW times when I see an "old Texans" mistake or bad play. But I see lots of different things than I've seen in four years COMBINED.

We're gonna' get there. but a lot of people are losing faith.

Texan Asylum
11-20-2006, 11:43 PM
Last season: O line can't even let Carr get a pass off.

This season: 22-in-a-row by Carr/O line/WRs/Coaches. 22 in a row, my friend.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm..........

Funny how last season and during the offseason we all gritched about how no QB could have succeeded with last year's line, coaching, and playcalling. How David was "ruined" and he'd probably ned therapy just to make it out onto the field.

And here you are gritching about David Carr after it seems that it's been a complete 180-degree turn-around from what we saw last year.

Last year we were NEVER in position to even sniff a win. Can't for the life of me understand how we even got TWO wins. I mean, the Kansas City and Seattle debacles were so very sad in terms of how we were finished before the coin flip had taken place.

Now, we're losing a few close games and yet it's still the same old thing: gritch, gritch, gritch about things.

And David is STILL at the top of the list!

Last season, we all dreamed of a day when Carr would have a high passer rating. We couldn't even believe (fully) that Kubiak would be able to do with David and with the offense what he's done.

But losing and winning is what gets noticed and gets spoken about the most.

Anyways...just now thought about the stark contrast from last year to this year. But poor old Houston, we're just so dadgum lousy and awful.

There's some fans in spiked shoulder pads over in California that would probably like to have Kubiak and Carr right now.

It's always worse than you think. Go ask Raiders fan.
Nice one again Shafe.

Texans_Chick
11-20-2006, 11:52 PM
All fans beyotch about their teams. It's what they do.

Really, go visit MBs around the league. You think people will complain less when things get better? It doesn't happen. As improvements occur, expectations change.

That being said, I could really do without the more losses than winning thing.

Runner
11-20-2006, 11:53 PM
Not everyone is blaming everything on Carr. Some vocal people are, and the threads stay live because arguments continue ad infinitum between the attackers and defenders.

Today I've discussed Carr, the o-line, the kick return team, Cook, Kubiak, and the assistant coaches in various threads. Other people have also talked about the refs, Stanley, and Faggins. I'm probably forgetting other objects of blame.

The other threads end faster because people can argue their positions and move on.

I see repeated posts in the vein of "everybody blames everything on Carr" which is just as wrong as statement "it's all Carr's fault".

I'm pretty neutral on Carr; he's not one of my favorite topics of conversation. That being said, this complaining about the complainers just adds fuel to the fire.

TheRealJoker
11-20-2006, 11:56 PM
Not everyone is blaming everything on Carr. Some vocal people are, and the threads stay live because arguments continue ad infinitum between the attackers and defenders.

Today I've discussed Carr, the o-line, the kick return team, Cook, Kubiak, and the assistant coaches in various threads. Other people have also talked about the refs, Stanley, and Faggins. I'm probably forgetting other objects of blame.

The other threads end faster because people can argue their positions and move on.

I see repeated posts in the vein of "everybody blames everything on Carr" which is just as wrong as statement "it's all Carr's fault".

I'm pretty neutral on Carr; he's not one of my favorite topics of conversation. That being said, this complaining about the complainers just adds fuel to the fire.



The point here is that on a 3-7 team no single person is to blame.

Runner
11-21-2006, 12:07 AM
The point here is that on a 3-7 team no single person is to blame.

I know that. I'd like to see the people who don't like to see Carr bashed spend their efforts contributing to the discussion of the other areas of failure on the team rather than perpetuating the Carr threads. It is especially unhelpful to take a Cook fumbles too much thread or a Faggins can't cover thread and insert an "it must be Carr's fault comment". That just perpetuates or jump starts the bashing. If you really just want to argue, that's a fine plan.

If you want to write something interested fans may want to read, add to some of these other threads and let the Carr threads die. The bashers will bash regardless. Nobody is going to stop them.

So ends my rant. This board is just getting so crappy right now I wanted to say something.

thunderkyss
11-21-2006, 12:24 AM
We couldn't even believe (fully) that Kubiak would be able to do with David and with the offense what he's done.


I admit....... and I've admitted before. I'm very surprised at how mentally tough David Carr is. I've never seen anybody take the wupp'n he has over the past four years, and play as tough as he has this year.

In the preseason, against Philly, and against Indy, you could see David would get shook up when it looked like another 5 sack game.

I can't believe he is still looking downfield as he is getting pounded.


We are still running a pretty stunted offense so the line isn't exposed. Carr said on his radio interview this morning that (paraphrased) the offensive scheme is predicated on getting rid of the ball fast because historically the line hasn't been able to pass protect.


I think he's getting the ball out "on time"...... I'm watching other games, and everybody get's rid of the ball after about 2.5 seconds.. after that, you're crazy to sit and wait for something to develop. As the game goes on, most teams find time to sit back, and wait... most defenses can't bring it on every down....... we saw a bit of that yesterday on a few occasions.... not as much as most teams, but we saw some of it.


As much as we hate the Cowboy fans and thier arrogance.. I admire them for standing by thier team even when they are rotten. Its just really sad that we cant do the same.

No........ it's pretty much the same. Alot of guys on the cowboys-forum.com have been calling for Romo for three years now, and it's hard to find a Bledsoe fan that were members of the forum before Bledsoe was a Cowboy.

Napa Auto Parts
11-21-2006, 03:05 AM
Last season: O line can't even let Carr get a pass off.

This season: 22-in-a-row by Carr/O line/WRs/Coaches. 22 in a row, my friend.





and he still cant win im sorry i just had it was to easy:stirpot:

West Texas Texan
11-21-2006, 03:25 AM
Before a team can win consistently, it must collectively understand and believe that it can. Winning is all about attitude. I believe that I see on the field that attitude beginning to take shape. I see defensive players flying to the ball, I see an offense that can move the ball effectively, and the running game coming around.

The same holds true for all sports. The stories abound everywhere. Breaking a four minute mile was impossible, the human body just can't do it....until Bannister broke it...The year after he broke the four minute mile, over 300 runners broke it.

Remember the 1980 USA hockey team? Nobody can beat the russians. Only they believed they could beat the "professional" Russian team, and they did!

Probably the most difficult accomplishment in sports is to change a losing mindset to a winning mindset. I see that beginning to happen with this team. Last year, the players were calling ahead for takeout before halftime. Now, these players are EXTREMELY PISSED when they lose. They do have a certain pride to them. When they finally break through that barrier, watch out, they will have raised themselves out of the ashes, and will tear this league up.

Napa Auto Parts
11-21-2006, 03:29 AM
So how many more years and millions of unearned money hurting our salary cap is this attitude thing that you speak of is going to take to develop hell we should buy a bottle of it on ebay:lightbulb:

GP
11-21-2006, 10:12 AM
So how many more years and millions of unearned money hurting our salary cap is this attitude thing that you speak of is going to take to develop hell we should buy a bottle of it on ebay:lightbulb:

LOL!

THAT, everybody, is the Webster's Dictionary definition of what "Hate Carr" is all about.

Let's break it down:

1. It contains the most crucial element of the Hate Carr Doctrine: "Salary Cap and millions of wasted money."

2. Next, you must also include the "How many years are we going to have to wait...." terminology.

That's the essence of the party line: Salary Cap & Years of "Waiting."

Do you guys have some sort of convention where you hammer out what the party line is going to be?

Here's my party line: I won't actively root against a guy that's on my team. If Carr gets benched or traded or cut, then so be it...it's the decision of the coaches. That's how it works, and I'll be cool with it (seriously!). But I won't find myself buying into the negativity that is so squarely focused on a guy who was "wasted" by an inept coaching staff for four seasons: The years of waiting have more to do with Capers than with Carr.

I think Stanley and Cook are two of the most inept players on our team because they consistently make critical mistakes in critical moments of a game. But I don't gleefully anticipate their demise...I WANT them to succeed, and at the end of the day if they are still on the field come Sunday, then I'll root for them and hope they do their best.

You guys make it sound like we have Tim Couch at QB. Losses get magnified around here, and wins are relegated to "Yeah, well let's see what we do next week..." status.

Our fan base is so negative. I'd hate to see what we look like when we win and then perhaps start losing again. It'll be too much for a lot of you.

Kaiser Toro
11-21-2006, 10:15 AM
LOL!
Our fan base is so negative. I'd hate to see what we look like when we win and then perhaps start losing again. It'll be too much for a lot of you.

Laughing at oneself is a soft rapport building skill

AJ stinks.

Who cares about his stats. His stats don't win us games.

We still lose.

I mean, that's the line the Carr haters are carrying....so it goes for AJ and Meco. Those guys stink as bad as Carr if we apply the same logic.

Don't ya' think?

dtran04
11-21-2006, 10:15 AM
Being a Rockets fan, I would know what its like to have bandwagon fans. You should see the rollercoaster ride that takes place on those forums. It's part of Houston sports, no getting around it. We're not exactly Green Bay here...

GP
11-21-2006, 10:23 AM
Being a Rockets fan, I would know what its like to have bandwagon fans. You should see the rollercoaster ride that takes place on those forums. It's part of Houston sports, no getting around it. We're not exactly Green Bay here...

I would read postgame stories during the Rockets seasons BEFORE the two championships...I was appalled that the vast majority of Houstonians were so blatantly negative about the team.

I hated losing to Seattle and Phoenix (or Utah) in those years before we finally hit paydirt. BUT, I kept my chin up and kept a positive attitude the whole time. I just knew that this team was bound for a title.

I feel that way about the Astros. Two years in a row we could have won it, and I STILL think that we can.

But there is a strong voice of discontent amongst the Houston pro sports fans that is saddening, IMO.

The Ws and Ls are not where they should be. I know that. But anybody who says we haven't made progress as a TEAM is crazy. Even witout DD, we're in games more than we ever were last year.

Isn't that something to be proud of?

I guess not.

NATHANHALE
11-21-2006, 11:16 AM
"Because we're jealous and envious of the Cowboys."

First, you gripe about posters putting words in your mouth--second you make statements like the one above--third, your posts are full of 'you guys' and what you think everyone 'thinks' about David Carr.

Step back. Take a deep breath. Read your post. Erase anything that your post says that 'he said/they said/you said, etc.' What's left....:yahoo:

thunderkyss
11-21-2006, 11:38 AM
LOL!

I think... ...Cook are two of the most inept players on our team because they consistently make critical mistakes in critical moments of a game. But I don't gleefully anticipate their demise...I WANT them to succeed, and at the end of the day if they are still on the field come Sunday, then I'll root for them and hope they do their best.


In Cook has fumbled the ball in two games... two games.

David has fumbled the ball in what 6 of our last 10?? But Cook is the most inept??

We're all rooting for Carr.... at least I am...... We all want the Texans to win. Saying things like David doesn't throw the ball over the middle, David has poor placement, David doesn't read defenses, etc..... aren't rooting for David to lose. That's just like saying Cook fumbled the ball twice.

Doesn't matter that he took a pretty good hit on the football on both occassions, the guy is expected to protect the football.

I agree some of these posts are just hateful..... maybe the guys don't know how to express themselves. I don't know.

But if you can't see this team is waiting for David to come around, I don't know what to tell you.

HJam72
11-25-2006, 08:48 AM
I miss Morran Norris.

SAMURAITEXAN
11-25-2006, 11:41 AM
Heck, we only won 2 games last year. We won 3 already and our Oline has given up sack much less than last year. Carr made 22 in row that's something we can smile about. This time last year, did you ever imagine our Oline could hold the opponents for Carr to make 22 in row? I don't think so.

Another thing is our rookies, DeMeco,Mario,Owen,Wali,Eric and Charles. We did very well on draft. And, we got Moulds in trade and some FAs are starting for us now(It may be due to injuries but they are starter and doing it well).

This is only first year for Kubiak & CO. and already showing improvements in all areas. I really like his scheme.

Playoff is not that far way from now. Should be in a few years. Who knows may be next year.

What I want to say is I'm very optimistic about the texans we will only get better.

GO TEXANS!!

Houston_Fanatic
11-25-2006, 12:24 PM
Well, what I have observed is our offense has improved dramatically from last year - even though it is still sputtering and inconsistent - and Denver's offense is in trouble. Denver fans can blame Plummer, but Plummer has really gone downhill since Kubiak left.

I have been amazed at what Kubiak has been able to do with Carr. Will it be enough? I don't know - we'll find out over the next 2 years when the rest of the weaknesses are shored up.

I wear my Texans jersey proudly, win or lose.
:redtowel:

cuppacoffee
11-25-2006, 02:08 PM
But if you can't see this team is waiting for David to come around, I don't know what to tell you.

This is where we disagree. I don't see that at all.

Kubiaks 'system' is predicated on a strong running game.

David is not a running back, at least not by design.

:coffee:

thunderkyss
11-25-2006, 04:14 PM
This is where we disagree. I don't see that at all.

Kubiaks 'system' is predicated on a strong running game.

David is not a running back, at least not by design.

:coffee:

true............ true..........

Texans_Chick
11-25-2006, 06:27 PM
In Cook has fumbled the ball in two games... two games.

David has fumbled the ball in what 6 of our last 10?? But Cook is the most inept??

We're all rooting for Carr.... at least I am...... We all want the Texans to win. Saying things like David doesn't throw the ball over the middle, David has poor placement, David doesn't read defenses, etc..... aren't rooting for David to lose. That's just like saying Cook fumbled the ball twice.

Doesn't matter that he took a pretty good hit on the football on both occassions, the guy is expected to protect the football.

I agree some of these posts are just hateful..... maybe the guys don't know how to express themselves. I don't know.

But if you can't see this team is waiting for David to come around, I don't know what to tell you.

Oh please. (Interesting to root for a guy you have repeatedly said you hate)

Without a consistent running game, and after playing one of the hardest schedules in the league, the Texans offense as rated by Football Outsiders (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2006/11/21/ramblings/dvoa-rankings/4579/), is rated 10th (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamoff.php).

10th. (FO has Dallas ranked at 7th for purposes of comparison of a team you might be familiar with).

The defense is rated 31st (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef.php) and the special teams has been dragging at 23rd (worse than a typical Texans ST).

People like talking about the QB position because it is all they know. Ultimately, that is not high on my list of problems with this team.

Goatcheese
11-25-2006, 06:58 PM
In Cook has fumbled the ball in two games... two games.

David has fumbled the ball in what 6 of our last 10?? But Cook is the most inept??



The difference is that Carr has handled the ball nearly 500 times vs Cooks 21. Just a small difference, but it's there if you look close enough.

sleepwalker
11-25-2006, 07:37 PM
Good post...The first few comments were very good too...The people that know this team understand that Carr's sacks are down because we get the ball away quicker because our OL is hurt and talentless.

That's the whole point, he's not getting rid of the ball on time, he's getting rid of the ball ahead of time...That's what we have to do...Most of the time, there's not even enough time to make a play fake...But fans complain *Carr isnt throwing down field...Where are the 7 step drops....Where is the 2 min drill*...It really makes me ill!!!

You win big games by controlling the clock and game, you throw to your backs and dump it off quick and make plays...You keep the chains moving and the D off the field...By the time you get in the redzone, you know how to execute and get short yardage.

I like everything Kubiak is doing, he *obviously* knows a lot more about winning games than any of us.

Carr can't succeed with this talentless OL and now we have serious problems due to injury...It's terrible that some people can complain about the OL one week, then bash Carr the next.

thunderkyss
11-25-2006, 09:03 PM
Oh please. (Interesting to root for a guy you have repeatedly said you hate)

Okay, maybe root isn't the right word. I'm watching the game, hoping David does well, because we can't win(consistently) if he doesn't.

Maybe I'm not "rooting" for him..... I don't hate him, I just don't like him.


Without a consistent running game, and after playing one of the hardest schedules in the league, the Texans offense as rated by Football Outsiders (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2006/11/21/ramblings/dvoa-rankings/4579/), is rated 10th (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamoff.php).

10th. (FO has Dallas ranked at 7th for purposes of comparison of a team you might be familiar with).

So if David is the reason FO has us rated at #10, why are we losing games??

Is that David as well??

Can't have it both ways.

Do you think David is where Kubiak wants him to be when he is done?? I don't.

I remember in week 6, & again Week 8, we saw Sage with 5 wide recievers.... many of us said... hey, when are we going to see David with 5 wide recievers?? Answer.... week 11.

All I've got to say, is that if FO has us at 10 now, I can't wait till Kubiak gets David where he wants him.

People like talking about the QB position because it is all they know. Ultimately, that is not high on my list of problems with this team.

True enough.

ArlingtonTexan
11-25-2006, 10:31 PM
Football Outsiders call their system an efficiency ranking. Unlike some are taught in Business 101, in the NFL effciency does not equal effectiveness. The Texans don't have the 10th most EFFECTIVE offense the NFL. If whatever measure you are using comes up with that result, then you need to spend more time questioning the methodology.

Houston_Fanatic
11-26-2006, 12:14 AM
Althought I think Kubiak has done great things with Carr this season, he is terrible at managing the clock. It is his rookie season, too, as a head coach so hopefully he will improve on this as he gets more games under his belt.