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90274
11-19-2006, 10:26 PM
Have not been able to see any games this year. How is the OL doing? Specifically how are the guards? Any depth at the guard position? Thanks!

Runner
11-19-2006, 10:38 PM
In my opinion, the o-line is better than it was last year. This is faint praise indeed.

In their defense, they've battled a lot of injuries and didn't have much depth to start with.

I think we Texans fans have pretty low expectations. In general, we think they are playing well because the sack count is down. However, they are still inadequate. (This is NOT a defense of Carr - he has problems of his own.) They give up too many hits as Carr throws the ball, and on their "good" plays they are getting pushed back to Carr so he has little room to operate. This lack of room becomes apparent when compared to other NFL teams when watching other games. The play where Salaam sacked Carr today was classic.

To answer your question, I think the guards are better than the tackles. (Again, faint praise if it is true). McKinney is our guard depth behind Pitts and Weary - I'll let you decide if that is good depth.

Goldeagle
11-19-2006, 11:14 PM
They do better, and with Weigert out they seem to NOW form a decent pocket for Carr to throw. And yeah LOL Salaam got pushed and owned by a 240 Lbs. rusher. I miss Charles Spencer!

Runner
11-19-2006, 11:24 PM
They do better, and with Weigert out they seem to NOW form a decent pocket for Carr to throw.

I still contend that the pocket the Texans create is different from the pocket most other NFL lines create on a consistent basis. So different that there should be another name for it. It's pretty tight - maybe "glove" would be good name.

90274
11-20-2006, 12:16 AM
Thanks for the replies.

Texans_Chick
11-20-2006, 12:40 AM
In my opinion, the o-line is better than it was last year. This is faint praise indeed.

In their defense, they've battled a lot of injuries and didn't have much depth to start with.

I think we Texans fans have pretty low expectations. In general, we think they are playing well because the sack count is down. However, they are still inadequate. (This is NOT a defense of Carr - he has problems of his own.) They give up too many hits as Carr throws the ball, and on their "good" plays they are getting pushed back to Carr so he has little room to operate. This lack of room becomes apparent when compared to other NFL teams when watching other games. The play where Salaam sacked Carr today was classic.

To answer your question, I think the guards are better than the tackles. (Again, faint praise if it is true). McKinney is our guard depth behind Pitts and Weary - I'll let you decide if that is good depth.


I think this is a fair assessment.

Quick question. In the game notes (http://www.houstontexans.com/gameday/game_10.php?section=Gameday), it says:

Steve McKinney saw his first action of the year at center in the second quarter. McKinney shifted to guard prior to the season after playing at center for the last four years.

First of all, I thought he came in once before at center earlier this season when Flanagan got hurt during a game.

And secondly, how long did he play center today? I was at the game and didn't notice.

Runner
11-20-2006, 12:44 AM
I thought McKinney had been in at center before this year too.

I think Flanagan left toward the end of the first half and played starting the second half. I don't think McKinney was in very many snaps, but I didn't really notice.

Runner
11-20-2006, 09:12 AM
On Carr's radio interview today he mentioned that the short passing scheme was in place because of o-line problems. He stated that they have to get rid of the ball fast to help avoid sacks. He also brought up the fact that they had a rookie right tackle starting and this made it even more critical to get rid of the ball. He used their first pass play as an example. It was a 5 step drop and he got creamed (my word not his) by the left end as he threw.

I'm not sure how much better the line really is. The Texans use quick, short passes and frequent tight end help to bolster the pass protection. I also think our running backs do a pretty good job in pass protection now too.

The Texans made quite a few line changes this year to little effect. The offense still revolves more around the lines inadequacy than to the team's strengths. Admittedly there have been injuries, but all teams deal with those.

edo783
11-20-2006, 10:36 AM
On Carr's radio interview today he mentioned that the short passing scheme was in place because of o-line problems. He stated that they have to get rid of the ball fast to help avoid sacks. He also brought up the fact that they had a rookie right tackle starting and this made it even more critical to get rid of the ball. He used their first pass play as an example. It was a 5 step drop and he got creamed (my word not his) by the left end as he threw.

I'm not sure how much better the line really is. The Texans use quick, short passes and frequent tight end help to bolster the pass protection. I also think our running backs do a pretty good job in pass protection now too.

The Texans made quite a few line changes this year to little effect. The offense still revolves more around the lines inadequacy than to the team's strengths. Admittedly there have been injuries, but all teams deal with those.

Pretty much answers all the "Why isn't Carr throwing down field" questions doesn't it. The WCO is predicated on the run and short throws anyway, but we have taken to a new level, because of the crappy O-line play.

Runner
11-20-2006, 10:38 AM
Pretty much answers all the "Why isn't Carr throwing down field" questions doesn't it. The WCO is predicated on the run and short throws anyway, but we have taken to a new level, because of the crappy O-line play.

I'm not giving Carr a free pass either - he has some problems. It is interesting that the offensive scheme really is built on the foundation of our line.

Crazyhorse
11-20-2006, 12:05 PM
Thought the bright spot of the OL was Winston. After many questions about his ability he played a very solid game and established himself as an NFL tackle. His block on the first touchdown was great. No on got near Carr from the right side, and on many plays he was down field getting a second block. We need more of this kind of play. Hopefully with Spencer's return the two will make a dynamic duo!!!!!!!!!!!

nunusguy
11-20-2006, 12:33 PM
I taped the game as usual, so I'll be concentrating on watching the OL play when I watch it. But outside of that very early play where Winston's guy
made an inside move on him and make him look silly, I think he played pretty
well.
Which begs the question, why did Kubiak wait till the second half of the season to put him in ? It was just one game, but to me looked like he did as well as Weigert had been doing before he got the injury ? Given Kubiak reluctance to play him, I expected a total disastor from the Miami rookie, but
no such thing happened.

real
11-20-2006, 12:43 PM
I taped the game as usual, so I'll be concentrating on watching the OL play when I watch it. But outside of that very early play where Winston's guy
made an inside move on him and make him look silly, I think he played pretty
well.
Which begs the question, why did Kubiak wait till the second half of the season to put him in ? It was just one game, but to me looked like he did as well as Weigert had been doing before he got the injury ? Given Kubiak reluctance to play him, I expected a total disastor from the Miami rookie, but
no such thing happened.

I'm not sure how you or any other fan not in film session with the team can accurately grade the O-line by watching their performance from a recorded broadcast...

You will need to know the right technique, steps, alignment....and oh yeah...you'll need to know their assignments....meaning you'll need to know the plays, and how they have been taught to block them....

good luck with that....

Specnatz
11-20-2006, 01:48 PM
I'm not sure how you or any other fan not in film session with the team can accurately grade the O-line by watching their performance from a recorded broadcast...

You will need to know the right technique, steps, alignment....and oh yeah...you'll need to know their assignments....meaning you'll need to know the plays, and how they have been taught to block them....

good luck with that....

Well I am not a line guy at all but when you see a guy make a fake and then toss the lineman out of his way, even I can tell that is a bad thing.

I thought the line was improving but as the injuries are mounting it is looking like the same ol same ol. Hopefully Winston improves through the season.

Texan_Bill
11-20-2006, 01:56 PM
188 yards rushing isn't too shabby, but there is still a long way to go, like Specnatz said, "see a guy make a fake and then toss the lineman out of his way, even I can tell that is a bad thing"

Even with all of the injuries and shuffling around, I think they are improved as a unit, but the just not that good yet.

nunusguy
11-20-2006, 02:03 PM
I'm not sure how you or any other fan not in film session with the team can accurately grade the O-line by watching their performance from a recorded broadcast...
You will need to know the right technique, steps, alignment....and oh yeah...you'll need to know their assignments....meaning you'll need to know the plays, and how they have been taught to block them....
good luck with that....
Quite frankly, I don't think I'm qualified to "grade the O-Line" in the technically sense that you speak of here. But I think I can get a general impression of the performance of individaul players on the Line.

real
11-20-2006, 02:16 PM
Quite frankly, I don't think I'm qualified to "grade the O-Line" in the technically sense that you speak of here. But I think I can get a general impression of the performance of individaul players on the Line.


I think you can look at the film and tell who's getting physically beat...

Insideop
11-20-2006, 02:48 PM
I know this isn't a draft or FA thread and I hate :deadhorse , but I just can't seem to help myself. We need to draft more O-linemen in the top 3 rounds and/or get some in FA! I know we have other needs (DB, DL, LB, etc...), but since it takes awhile for an O-line to work together as a "unit" (jell), I think it will be critical this off season to get more O-linemen.

I will say this about the line we have now, it's doing a pretty good job despite all the injuries/player losses. But, how long can they keep it up with the lack of depth?

Runner
11-20-2006, 02:55 PM
but since it takes awhile for an O-line to work together as a "unit" (jell), I think it will be critical this off season to get more O-linemen.


This is an area where the Texans have a history of the coaches outsmarting themselves. They quit on players that they should be developing because there are rough spots, and then they reshuffle/reload. Then when there are rough spots they make changes again.

At some point they have to stop making changes for incremental improvement (or worse yet, incremental degradation that we've tried a couple of times) and let players work through the rough parts.

I think part of the losing attitude here is that players are so afraid of making mistakes that they subconsciously hold themsleves back. This started with the previous regime and I haven't seen much change yet.