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View Full Version : This loss is squarely on Kubiak!


Rightnow
11-19-2006, 02:55 PM
When we only had 2 yards to go and Kubiak called a pass I turned off the set and knew we weren't going to win. If Carr's pass against the Titans quadruple coverage was the dumbest pass ever, Kubiak's choice of pass was the worst play call ever.

HE DESERVES TO LOSE AND SHOULD BE CALLED OUT FOR SUCH A DUMB PLAYCALL!

The Bills only had one time out! Only one! They couldn't have called a timeout to win!

I hope the press takes Kubiak to the wood shed on losing the game.

Goldeagle
11-19-2006, 02:56 PM
Totally Agree! Pathetic Play Calling!

Effing Prevent Defense. Who The Eff Plays The Effing Prevent Defense In This Day????

Effing Pathetic!

NJTexanFan
11-19-2006, 02:57 PM
I couldn't have said it better myself i felt the same exact way when the play happened

jaayteetx
11-19-2006, 02:57 PM
Yep, gotta agree on that one. Pretty dang stupid.

gg no re
11-19-2006, 02:57 PM
I was disgusted by the 3rd and 2 call.

Goldeagle
11-19-2006, 02:58 PM
Im So Mad!!!!

Who Plays The Prevent????

Effing Pathetic!

Porky
11-19-2006, 02:59 PM
Stupid call. Period. Only 2 yards to go with the running game working fairly well. If nothing else, you have to force Buffalo to burn their last time out. He blew that one big time.

IshouldbeGM
11-19-2006, 03:00 PM
i agree, this loss is on kubiak. we were gashing them with the run, why pass on 3rd and 2?? they had 1 timeout left, and was up with that conservative defense when the bills were driving? how can they only rush 3?? i wouldve been blitzing my a## off!!! the texans were too conservative today in the 2nd half as usual! we shouldve beaten the titans, shouldve beaten the bills, we should be 5-5!!

The Dream
11-19-2006, 03:00 PM
I didn't watch the game this week because I've been writing a paper, but it sounds like it was a good thing that I didn't see it....what exactly happened with the timeout situation?

hot pickle
11-19-2006, 03:01 PM
the thing that lost us the game was the D-line, we are very weak at that position right now, and didnt get very good pressure


not gonna blame anything on kubiak

moses77550
11-19-2006, 03:02 PM
Horrible play call.....Also, we had no pressure on Losman at all the whole game....this really hurt losing to this team we should have beat....I am pissed off!

run-david-run
11-19-2006, 03:05 PM
if your gonna pass in that situation, go deep. if not, run it, or a play fake. why run the prevent when our base D had help them scorless since the 1st quarter?

hot pickle
11-19-2006, 03:05 PM
and cooks fumble, kubiak was just tryin to win the game, and if we woulda ran and not the 1st yall would of been mad about that, just yall need to think about your sayin befor you post it

Dime
11-19-2006, 03:06 PM
What do you mean it was a stupid play call? Everyone in the world was expecting the run, and to try to trick and pass, it was a good try. If it would have worked, you wouldnt be saying crap. God i hate people that second guess a play call AFTER the fact. Carr had been doing good all day and he threw A bad pass.

AndrewTXAg07
11-19-2006, 03:06 PM
I'll be very interested to see what he has to say about the play calls there at the end that helped Carr tie the record.

Osso
11-19-2006, 03:07 PM
Not only does our team have 2 faces but now the coach does too.

If your boys can get you a 4 and 1 when you need it WTH would you throw on 3 and 2 when you want them to burn the time out?

If they miss and only get the yard you can go for the 4 and 1 just like last week.

:crying:

Wolf
11-19-2006, 03:08 PM
What do you mean it was a stupid play call? Everyone in the world was expecting the run, and to try to trick and pass, it was a good try. If it would have worked, you wouldnt be saying crap. God i hate people that second guess a play call AFTER the fact. Carr had been doing good all day and he threw A bad pass.

exactly Dime.. I remember when we went for it against the Jags, everyone was hooting and hollering about what a gutsy call Kubiak made.

NJTexanFan
11-19-2006, 03:08 PM
What do you mean it was a stupid play call? Everyone in the world was expecting the run, and to try to trick and pass, it was a good try. If it would have worked, you wouldnt be saying crap. God i hate people that second guess a play call AFTER the fact. Carr had been doing good all day and he threw A bad pass.

Obviously everyone didn't expect run because Nate Clements was all over that pass i mean it was pretty obvious we weren't even stacked up in a run play

Mr. White
11-19-2006, 03:09 PM
This thread

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e60/coreyvice/frankenstein4.jpg

Mysteryhunt
11-19-2006, 03:12 PM
just like last week's win was on him. he's growing with the team and is WAY better than that capers guy. give him time to learn his lessons like everyone else, he's a rookie too.

HoustonTexans
11-19-2006, 03:16 PM
I agree, this is def on kubiak that 3rd and 2 call... even if we didnt make it, they have to take a time out which changes there drive. definitely on kubiak not only on this play but the whole second half was just awful

sleepwalker
11-19-2006, 03:16 PM
I have to agree finally...Carr blew the pass too...Upsetting no doubt.

But even more upsetting was that f'n prevent defense call on the 15 yrd line to give up the winning TD.

Dime
11-19-2006, 03:17 PM
Coverage is coverage// they tried a trick play and it didnt work. Simple as that.

kenneth24
11-19-2006, 03:17 PM
Players made plenty of mistakes today but the coach made a critical mistake with less than 2 minutes to go! So what if they were expecting a run play?!? Time was on our side then and at least another half minute would have run off the clock. :brickwall

GuerillaBlack
11-19-2006, 03:19 PM
This was a stupid game. I was so happy when the Bills had what, 30 seconds left in the game and no more timeouts. I thought we had it. Pathetic game today.

Goldeagle
11-19-2006, 03:20 PM
Kubiak and Smith should BENCH themselves for the next game!

Dime
11-19-2006, 03:20 PM
Players made plenty of mistakes today but the coach made a critical mistake with less than 2 minutes to go! So what if they were expecting a run play?!? Time was on our side then and at least another half minute would have run off the clock. :brickwall


Time was not on our side... wth.... if time was on our side.. we could have run out the clock without getting a first down. Trick play tried.. bad pass by carr, or aj did post quick enough.. either way.. it didnt work.

Dime
11-19-2006, 03:21 PM
Kubiak and Smith should BENCH themselves for the next game!

Dumbest comment of the day..

Goldeagle
11-19-2006, 03:22 PM
Dumbest comment of the day..

As dumb as their play calling????

Dime
11-19-2006, 03:26 PM
As dumb as their play calling????

Nope... our play calling was decent.. not great.. your comment was not. I hope you are just talking with emotion other then anything else.

Goldeagle
11-19-2006, 03:26 PM
Really just joking around.

edo783
11-19-2006, 03:27 PM
The third and 2 call was a dumb call. Ya run it and either get the first or at the worst burn 25 seconds off the clock. 25 seconds that the Bills can't have to operate with or they then burn their last timeout and that makes it much harder for them to get down field after the punt. Just a bad call period.

Dime
11-19-2006, 03:28 PM
Really just joking around.

Sorry.. couldnt tell.. its just comments like these are what get the fire threads started and I am sooo sick of those from last year, its unreal. We gave Capers 4 year, I think we need to give 2 years before we start questioning him about most of this. He has to learn too.

Goldeagle
11-19-2006, 03:29 PM
Heh, the Inet does not capture the humor or sarcasm so well lol!

Dime
11-19-2006, 03:30 PM
Heh, the Inet does not capture the humor or sarcasm so well lol!

heheh.. nods..

kenneth24
11-19-2006, 03:31 PM
Time was not on our side... wth.... if time was on our side.. we could have run out the clock without getting a first down. Trick play tried.. bad pass by carr, or aj did post quick enough.. either way.. it didnt work.

Either another 35 seconds would have run off before the punt or they would have had to use the timeout which they used later. They scored with 9 seconds to go.

We "outsmarted" ourselves! Last week we needed one yard and we smashed it in there and this week with 3 and 2 and less than 2 minutes on the clock and we needed the clock to keep running we try a "trick play" when smashmouth football has been working.

Worst case scenario of running the ball and not getting the first down is less than a minute and half to go or them burning their last timeout.

kenneth24
11-19-2006, 03:33 PM
I think Kubiak is a good coach for the Texans but that was not a smart call.:twocents:

nunusguy
11-19-2006, 03:35 PM
I have to agree finally...Carr blew the pass
It was not a good pass by David, but for the most part he had a good game,
maybe very good.
But the problem with the 3 and 2 call was Carr's execution, not the call. It
was a call to win the game which is odd because for much of the 2nd half
Kubiak had gone very conservative, sat on a very slim lead, and his play calling relected the mentality of one playing not to lose.
Tough loss, but a lot better than being down by 3 or 4 touchdowns in the 4th quarter with no chance.

Dime
11-19-2006, 03:38 PM
Personally.. this is EXACLY what I was talking about last week when everyone was yelling about Kub going into the half with 2 minutes left (ran out the clock). Carr does not play well, from what I have seen, when he is pressured and trying to force a play. He 'had' to or was 'forced' to make a play, which lead to a bad pass by Carr. He had completed 22 in a row.. but when forced, he makes worst and more risky decisions. This is Carr Akelize (how ever you spell it ) heel.

Dime
11-19-2006, 03:41 PM
Word!! How about when he called the run play on 3rd abd 15 on the 40? What the hell was that? You need a first down Kubes not a 5yd loss(gado). I'm still shell shocked!

Sigh.. What .. do people here ever watch football? You run if you need to get in a better punting/field goal sitiuation, then force a bad play. Payton can make those calls/throws. Carr is being rebuilt.. he cant be counted on to make those calls/throws right now..

NATHANHALE
11-19-2006, 03:43 PM
Nope... our play calling was decent.. not great.. your comment was not. I hope you are just talking with emotion other then anything else.

I disagree about the play calling being decent. Our offense did not score a single point in the 2nd half, as we 'played not to lose.' That drive in the 2nd half where we were taken out of field goal range by a penalty and 'dink and dunk' play calling--especially running up the 'gut' on 3rd down--sums up Kubiak's thinking (you don't score-we won't score) for this game, IMO.

Mr. White
11-19-2006, 03:44 PM
I'm starting to think a lot of you guys didn't watch a lot of Denver games when Kubes was there.

He's calling the same plays here as he was there. The Broncos were just good enough to execute them.

TexaninDenver
11-19-2006, 03:46 PM
I think the big bungle was actually the long incomplete pass to AJ that stopped the clock around the 4:00 mark. Running the ball instead of passing would have eaten up at least 20-25 more seconds - which might have made the difference.

ib4texans
11-19-2006, 03:48 PM
Play calling this game in the second half was so passive it made me sick. We were usually so agressive in the 4th! What a bad game!

I could see this devolping with the last 3-4 drives,if every time we are ahead we are going to be this conservative, I think we should play from behind.

CowboysTexansFan
11-19-2006, 03:53 PM
I agree the call was a bad one, but the loss can't be placed completely on Kubiak.

Did you guys see Faggins get torched for loooooong touchdown passes by Lee Evans?

Did you see Cook fumble the ball deep in the Bills territory?

This loss convinced me even more that we need to use our first round pick on a cornerback or free safefy, if the value is justified when the Texans are on the clock.

run-david-run
11-19-2006, 04:03 PM
I'm starting to think a lot of you guys didn't watch a lot of Denver games when Kubes was there.

He's calling the same plays here as he was there. The Broncos were just good enough to execute them.

with the size of playbooks you can go through multiple games without calling the same play (not that you would want to, but you could). Also, the situation is just as important as the call. A missed slant on 1st and 10 in the 3rd quarter is not a big deal. A missed slant that stops the clock and gives the Bills that ball with a minute left and 1 time out is.

Wolf
11-19-2006, 04:05 PM
I disagree about the play calling being decent. Our offense did not score a single point in the 2nd half, as we 'played not to lose.' That drive in the 2nd half where we were taken out of field goal range by a penalty and 'dink and dunk' play calling--especially running up the 'gut' on 3rd down--sums up Kubiak's thinking (you don't score-we won't score) for this game, IMO.

we scored in the 3rd quarter.

Wolf
11-19-2006, 04:09 PM
I think the big bungle was actually the long incomplete pass to AJ that stopped the clock around the 4:00 mark. Running the ball instead of passing would have eaten up at least 20-25 more seconds - which might have made the difference.

it is a no win situateion when a big fat "L" is at the end of the game.

we could nitpick certain plays that could have made the difference.

Bottom line: right before half time, we punch that in instead of turning it over, we win the game.

Porky
11-19-2006, 04:10 PM
we scored in the 3rd quarter.

The Defense did, but not the jaugernaut offense led by the completion King.

Wolf
11-19-2006, 04:13 PM
The Defense did, but not the jaugernaut offense led by the completion King.

True

Porky
11-19-2006, 04:18 PM
Okay, that seals it for me. Our QB is brain dead. Rocks for brains. Know I know exactly why none of his coaches will let him audible. Total **** for brains. His football IQ is about equal to Jessica Simpson after an all night party.

Apprently, Carr was given a couple of plays to choose from, and he decided to pass in that situation. What a complete, and utter moron. We need a real QB that understands football and situations and has an actual clue. Oh, and if I am asking, could we get one that ever plays big in big situations. This one couldn't buy a clue if Vanna White was his QB coach. :brickwall

kcwilson
11-19-2006, 04:19 PM
The Defense did, but not the jaugernaut offense led by the completion King.

Dude, why ditch on Carr when he is executing passes...

I don't think you can signle handedly blame one aspect of the team for the loss, especially when Carr is just doing his job of completing the passes to players to keep the clock moving. If he threw those balls incomplete down field, the world would be screaming that he wasn't keeping the clock moving. There is no winning over people in this situation.

THe significant reason why we lost are obvious:
(1) Cook fumble
(2) Secondary bad play
(3) Stanley's lack of leg

Why take cheap shots at Carr when he did what was being asked of him and I feel did it smartly.

I didn't see anyone crying on the message boards when he completed passes at the end of the 1st half. I got nu problems with Kubiak's calling of the plays as we were pegged deep and couldn't afford a big turnover in our own territory.

hollywood_texan
11-19-2006, 04:21 PM
I agree that it was a bad call, but you had a QB that had thrown 22 straight completions in the game. Essentially though, Kubiak did call a run play. A lot of those pass plays are just disguised as run plays. We should keep that in mind.

Headlights of a Carr
11-19-2006, 04:25 PM
the thing that lost us the game was the D-line, we are very weak at that position right now, and didnt get very good pressure


not gonna blame anything on kubiak

Exactly if anything it is the safeties and the defensive playcalling. If Kubiak runs the ball and doesn't get it, someone complains.

Dang if you do, dang if you don't.

I'm more effing p'od at the play of our safeties. We made JP look like Joe Montana. Terrible D. Our only good CB is Dunta.

Houston_Fanatic
11-19-2006, 04:29 PM
I don't blame Kubiak - I blame Smith for his stupid prevent defense that has cost us several games this year so far! Not ONCE has it "prevented" anything.

TexaninDenver
11-19-2006, 04:31 PM
[Bottom line: right before half time, we punch that in instead of turning it over, we win the game.[/QUOTE]

Well, yes, that is true.

kcwilson
11-19-2006, 04:31 PM
I don't blame Kubiak - I blame Smith for his stupid prevent defense that has cost us several games this year so far! Not ONCE has it "prevented" anything.

Prevents you from winning... so in that sense it is effective.

Ibar_Harry
11-19-2006, 04:32 PM
we scored in the 3rd quarter.


I believe that was because of an INT...........

Ibar_Harry
11-19-2006, 04:41 PM
Dude, why ditch on Carr when he is executing passes...

I don't think you can signle handedly blame one aspect of the team for the loss, especially when Carr is just doing his job of completing the passes to players to keep the clock moving. If he threw those balls incomplete down field, the world would be screaming that he wasn't keeping the clock moving. There is no winning over people in this situation.

THe significant reason why we lost are obvious:
(1) Cook fumble
(2) Secondary bad play
(3) Stanley's lack of leg

Why take cheap shots at Carr when he did what was being asked of him and I feel did it smartly.

I didn't see anyone crying on the message boards when he completed passes at the end of the 1st half. I got nu problems with Kubiak's calling of the plays as we were pegged deep and couldn't afford a big turnover in our own territory.

The biggest factor is the last two series started at the 11 I believe. We could not get to the 20 and that is a big factor in the play calling. Our kicking game is very weak as a whole and it shows in big games at critical times. If you recall Kubiak commented on this a couple of games ago. I have also been saying Kubiak's play calling sucks for some time now and its nice to see more people getting on the band wagon. I have said Kubiak's calls are Caperish in nature and I will not back off that statement. He is a very poor play clock and end-game manager. He simply went to the well once too often. The Cook fumble was very big once again. That's two games you can lay on the line to his fumbling in critical situations.

Honoring Earl 34
11-19-2006, 04:46 PM
Losman completed the biggest pass of the day . Theres times in a game that you seperate the men from the boys ... Losman made the one completion that counted .

Maddict5
11-19-2006, 04:47 PM
What do you mean it was a stupid play call? Everyone in the world was expecting the run, and to try to trick and pass, it was a good try. If it would have worked, you wouldnt be saying crap. God i hate people that second guess a play call AFTER the fact. Carr had been doing good all day and he threw A bad pass.


exactly i dont mind that call at all-why? BECAUSE IT WAS PLAYING TO WIN!!
However the 2nd half playcalling was too conservative imo and he does deserve criticism for that

ChrisG
11-19-2006, 04:48 PM
a large portion of this loss goes to Kubiak, but you can't over look the HORRIBLE coverage in the first half...i will even overlook Cook's fumble (it was a well placed hit)

1 83 yard pass= okay, we made a mistake
2 80+ yard passes in consecutive drives= unacceptable

we need a S in the draft, and if we continue to play like this we will have out pick of the litter

i can't even watch any other games....wtf we had it, the bills suck, we had 'em

THIS SUMS UP OUR PLAY: :stooges:

Porky
11-19-2006, 04:53 PM
exactly i dont mind that call at all-why? BECAUSE IT WAS PLAYING TO WIN!!
However the 2nd half playcalling was too conservative imo and he does deserve criticism for that

Dude or dudette, not to be overly critical, but if you think that was playing to win, you honestly need a refresher course in winning football. That wasn't the only boneheaded play, but it was the last one, and the most obvisousely misguided one at that. 31 out of the 32 teams know exactly what to do in that situation. If you just insist on passing in that situation, don't throw a bullet pass to AJ, (ever heard of touch Carr?) when being covered like a blanket all day by Clements. If you must pass, how bout a roll out run/pass option, or a play action pass, and throw it to the back or maybe a TE. A nice very safe pass. Honestly, even that goes against convential wisdom, but the paticular pass chosen was a terrible choice, and apparently that was one of Carr's chosing. I see exactly why none of his coaches let him call his own plays. When it comes to football, he ain't exactly a mensa candidate.

scourge
11-19-2006, 04:58 PM
I couldn't have said it better myself i felt the same exact way when the play happened

not only mine, but everyones opinion around me... not even kidding a little bit.

run-david-run
11-19-2006, 04:58 PM
the formation was dumb as well. having both receivers on one side allows the defense to focus on that side and running a slant, which takes you into the middle of the field made it even worse because it took AJ right into linebacker. just a terrible decison in pretty much every aspect

johnboy
11-19-2006, 04:59 PM
i agree, this loss is on kubiak. we were gashing them with the run, why pass on 3rd and 2?? they had 1 timeout left, and was up with that conservative defense when the bills were driving? how can they only rush 3?? i wouldve been blitzing my a## off!!! the texans were too conservative today in the 2nd half as usual! we shouldve beaten the titans, shouldve beaten the bills, we should be 5-5!!

Why throw that pass the diff. was set up for the run Carrs pass was right to there power incomplete the clock stops.(They don't have to call a timeout.)and we have to kick great another 35yds kick (Do they paid that kid) One other thing the sun,playing at home and we don't realize are could be a problem with it. We will never win playing like this.

wolfscar
11-19-2006, 05:00 PM
I agree the call was a bad one, but the loss can't be placed completely on Kubiak.

Did you guys see Faggins get torched for loooooong touchdown passes by Lee Evans?

Did you see Cook fumble the ball deep in the Bills territory?

This loss convinced me even more that we need to use our first round pick on a cornerback or free safefy, if the value is justified when the Texans are on the clock.

The voice of reason.

This loss is not squarely on Kubiak - that's just nuts. It was a combination of things that lost us this game - the Bills (especially Clements) shut down our long passing game, their O-Line played really smart (did you see Mario getting forced to push off his right foot all day? There was just no power in it at all) and consequently Losman had WAY too much time to pick out his receivers (who promptly made some big plays for him). Added to that, we had a nickel corner covering a lightning fast receiver, being helped by a FS who can't cover for crap.

I liked the playcalling this game, overall - we dominated through 90% of that game. Sure, a running play would have eaten up their timeout, but he went for a pass because 9 times out of 10 you run there (especially given how we'd been playing) and he wanted to catch them out. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Today it didn't. Our running game was excellent, we shut down the A-Train and overall our offense looked pretty comfortable against some of the best defensive players in the league.

I thought we were the better team, but the Bills took our personnel issues and smacked us around with them. We need a healthy D-Line, with someone better than TJ at the heart of it, we need a healthy O-Line (although on a plus note I thought Winston did okay at RT today) but more than anything else, we need a cover corner to line up opposite Dunta and we need a FS who can play FS (Asante Samuel and LaRon Landry...?).

Kubiak still gets my support - 100%

Honoring Earl 34
11-19-2006, 05:02 PM
Well we proved two things today .

1. Our defense is'nt good enough yet to sit on a lead .

2. The coaches need to stay with the KISS ( keep it simple stupid ) method when closing out a game . I don't know if it was Carr's choice about the pass but he should'nt have an option .

kubiakfan
11-19-2006, 05:05 PM
Kubiak will go down as one of the top Offensive masterminds in history, and although you guys are having a hard season this year, it will be okay everything will get turned around, trust me Gary Kubiak is a great coach and I believe he will get your team to the SB (unfourntley that means beating us in a playoff game someday but hey if Gary Kubiak whens a SB as being a head coach someday I will be cheering him every step of the way, even if that means my team doesnt get to the SB lol)

I will always be a Kubiak fan no matter where he coachs, but my loaylities lie with the denver broncos first and as always, but I wont be to horriably upset if we lose to them :D: maybe in some wierd kind of way I will always have two teams lol.

dantem
11-19-2006, 05:11 PM
I would not have felt any different about the game if we had won, when you cant get more than a few first downs in the entire fourth quarter you don't deserve to win. I hope kubiak learned a lesson today about playing not to lose in the 4th qaurter. You have to stay aggressive in the NFL. You cannot go into any form of prevent and keep a lead.

Maddict5
11-19-2006, 05:14 PM
Dude or dudette, not to be overly critical, but if you think that was playing to win, you honestly need a refresher course in winning football. That wasn't the only boneheaded play, but it was the last one, and the most obvisousely misguided one at that. 31 out of the 32 teams know exactly what to do in that situation. If you just insist on passing in that situation, don't throw a bullet pass to AJ, (ever heard of touch Carr?) when being covered like a blanket all day by Clements. If you must pass, how bout a roll out run/pass option, or a play action pass, and throw it to the back or maybe a TE. A nice very safe pass. Honestly, even that goes against convential wisdom, but the paticular pass chosen was a terrible choice, and apparently that was one of Carr's chosing. I see exactly why none of his coaches let him call his own plays. When it comes to football, he ain't exactly a mensa candidate.

ok Marty:superman:

hmm..all very well in theory- BUT

crappy o-line + defence blitzing+ long developing play= likely carr on his ass and people *****ing bout crappy playcalling....

did kubiak call a bullet pass to andre? no... bottomline: he called a pass play when most defences expect a run and knew that andre would be in single coverage- if it gets completed we win (see the whole playing to win concept) and every1 saying kubiak has steel nuts again etc

DC called the plays in the ST louis and cards games last yr..showed he can do it ok

threetoedpete
11-19-2006, 05:14 PM
It was not a good pass by David, but for the most part he had a good game,
maybe very good.
But the problem with the 3 and 2 call was Carr's execution, not the call. It
was a call to win the game which is odd because for much of the 2nd half
Kubiak had gone very conservative, sat on a very slim lead, and his play calling relected the mentality of one playing not to lose.
Tough loss, but a lot better than being down by 3 or 4 touchdowns in the 4th quarter with no chance.

Agreed. As far as the call itself, It looked to me that Moulds was open half a step. Not to feed the Carr bashers, just saying. With the three step drop, kinda hard to fault Carr with the choice. A.J is the league leader isn't he ? Don't you want to give the bell cow a chance to redeem his day ? Buffalo corner just had a pro bowl day against us. Seems to be a reoccouring theme though. We go into half time and our offense cannot even generate a feild goal try. I think the rest of the season we can pretty much expect an '05 preformance. The same group equals the same production. And to that thought, it just might be the brain trust realizes this and glad to be up at the half figured our best chance to win was to gaurd the lead. We may not agree with this. But the fact is they know and we don't. We just don't have a very tallented football team right now. Kubes and the coaches gave the players their best chance to win. They can't execute for them.

RTP2110
11-19-2006, 08:29 PM
Play calling 101:

When you have thead under 2 minutes to go, run the ball. I dont care if its 3rd and 2 or 3rd and 22. Run it!

Prevent defense should be used in 1 situation and 1 situation only. That is when the other team is throwing a hail mary. Never any time else.

Mr. White
11-19-2006, 08:34 PM
Play calling 101:

When you have thead under 2 minutes to go, run the ball. I dont care if its 3rd and 2 or 3rd and 22. Run it!

The run was working so well the second half.

Prevent defense should be used in 1 situation and 1 situation only. That is when the other team is throwing a hail mary. Never any time else.

We only run the prevent for the hail mary.

Signed,

31 other NFL teams

QB75
11-19-2006, 09:16 PM
What do you mean it was a stupid play call? Everyone in the world was expecting the run, and to try to trick and pass, it was a good try. If it would have worked, you wouldnt be saying crap. God i hate people that second guess a play call AFTER the fact. Carr had been doing good all day and he threw A bad pass.

If you are serious then you don't know much about football.

NATHANHALE
11-19-2006, 09:25 PM
Dude or dudette, not to be overly critical, but if you think that was playing to win, you honestly need a refresher course in winning football. That wasn't the only boneheaded play, but it was the last one, and the most obvisousely misguided one at that. 31 out of the 32 teams know exactly what to do in that situation. If you just insist on passing in that situation, don't throw a bullet pass to AJ, (ever heard of touch Carr?) when being covered like a blanket all day by Clements. If you must pass, how bout a roll out run/pass option, or a play action pass, and throw it to the back or maybe a TE. A nice very safe pass. Honestly, even that goes against convential wisdom, but the paticular pass chosen was a terrible choice, and apparently that was one of Carr's chosing. I see exactly why none of his coaches let him call his own plays. When it comes to football, he ain't exactly a mensa candidate.

...there you go!

NATHANHALE
11-19-2006, 09:36 PM
Our offense does not score enough points, never has. People say our offense was great today and Carr was super and we controlled the game 90% of the time, etc.etc.

Folks, we didn't score a single offensive point in the second half. Carr has not thrown a TD in 4 games, only 9 in 10 games--3 TDs in one game means David has thrown 6 TDs in the other 9 games...and we're playing 'great' offensive football? 4 TDs in the last 3 games ain't going to win very many games...

...and the 'playing not to lose' play calling...geeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzz...don't get me started:confused: :yahoo: :brickwall :lightbulb:

Houston_Fanatic
11-19-2006, 09:57 PM
Kubiak will go down as one of the top Offensive masterminds in history, and although you guys are having a hard season this year, it will be okay everything will get turned around, trust me Gary Kubiak is a great coach and I believe he will get your team to the SB (unfourntley that means beating us in a playoff game someday but hey if Gary Kubiak whens a SB as being a head coach someday I will be cheering him every step of the way, even if that means my team doesnt get to the SB lol)

I will always be a Kubiak fan no matter where he coachs, but my loaylities lie with the denver broncos first and as always, but I wont be to horriably upset if we lose to them :D: maybe in some wierd kind of way I will always have two teams lol.

Thanks, kubiakfan, for your words of encouragement. It is hard to see it now when we lose yet another game we should have won, but Kubiak had a fantastic draft class and I have seen glimpses of greatness that gives me hope. We just don't have enough talent on our team to meet our expectations or to be consistent, but I believe we will get there and Kubiak will be leading us.

dat_boy_yec
11-19-2006, 09:59 PM
People critizing the call are really off. If you look at the play you see A) Johnson had advanced the 2 yds. necessary for the first down. B) he had inside position. C) the pass was not tipped nor was anybody in position to make a int. However even though all those things were well and good the placement was off. Had the ball been placed where Johnson could pull it in we would all be praising the call. Damn, I hate to sound Caperish, but on that play we simply didn't execute.

hollywood_texan
11-19-2006, 10:21 PM
Our offense does not score enough points, never has. People say our offense was great today and Carr was super and we controlled the game 90% of the time, etc.etc.

Folks, we didn't score a single offensive point in the second half. Carr has not thrown a TD in 4 games, only 9 in 10 games--3 TDs in one game means David has thrown 6 TDs in the other 9 games...and we're playing 'great' offensive football? 4 TDs in the last 3 games ain't going to win very many games...

...and the 'playing not to lose' play calling...geeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzz...don't get me started:confused: :yahoo: :brickwall :lightbulb:

This guy's got it! The offense has a problem scoring points and coming through in the clutch. Which maybe the biggest problem this team has right now.

As for Kubiak's play calling on 3-2 to pass the ball really wasn't that bad of a call considering the offense. That pass play was a high percentage play that was not executed properly. Basically, Carr and Johnson should be able to run that play in their sleep considering the objective of this offense. Not to mention if Carr's consecutive completions meant anything, that play would have worked.

This game was lost on so many levels, I don't know where to start and I really don't feel like it.

But, the biggest problem the Texans have is that they are lacking a couple of playmakers that can come through in the clutch.

ChrisG
11-19-2006, 10:21 PM
People critizing the call are really off. If you look at the play you see A) Johnson had advanced the 2 yds. necessary for the first down. B) he had inside position. C) the pass was not tipped nor was anybody in position to make a int. However even though all those things were well and good the placement was off. Had the ball been placed where Johnson could pull it in we would all be praising the call. Damn, I hate to sound Caperish, but on that play we simply didn't execute.

yea but with a run, even if he got a 40 yard loss, we would have been in better shape - clock still running...all he had to do was hold onto the damn ball, a pass is far more risky...even a kneel would have been better


NATHANHALE,
you are right tho, if they want to win they have to put up some pts in the 2nd half....

dat_boy_yec
11-19-2006, 10:45 PM
yea but with a run, even if he got a 40 yard loss, we would have been in better shape - clock still running...all he had to do was hold onto the damn ball, a pass is far more risky...even a kneel would have been better


NATHANHALE,
you are right tho, if they want to win they have to put up some pts in the 2nd half....

Second guessing huh, well then we should have gone for it on 4 and 2 then right. Gotta go for broke don't we. They still had that time out and may have burned it, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't have scored on our "prevent defense" and even then we still had a shot on that kickoff return. Which wouldn't have even been possible had we ran it, because then more than likely they might have scored on their last play.

Big J
11-20-2006, 01:59 AM
I agree the call was a bad one, but the loss can't be placed completely on Kubiak.

Did you guys see Faggins get torched for loooooong touchdown passes by Lee Evans?

Did you see Cook fumble the ball deep in the Bills territory?

This loss convinced me even more that we need to use our first round pick on a cornerback or free safefy, if the value is justified when the Texans are on the clock.

I couldnt agree more. Kubiak's play was not his best move, but what concerns me more is our D. Dont get me wrong, it is getting alot better. But with injuries, etc. our D is really exposed. Our secondary is horrible. Playing prevent to me was the worst decision of the game. We dont have enough talent to play prevent and thats the bottom line. I just changed my decision on drafting a OL in the first to drafting a stud corner/safety. CC Brown is at best a back up and we need to find him a replacement.

wicked_wayz
11-20-2006, 04:56 AM
Dumbest comment of the day..

agreed

Maddict5
11-20-2006, 06:38 AM
i cant believe the people that are *****ing over the 3rd and 2 call...the bills were expecting a run-they brought every1 up to the LOS...a well executed pass play wins the game...how do ye not see it- the bills still had a TO if they stopped us so again what are ye moaning about the clock.....

a run play in that situation is playing not to lose- which is what all of ye are usually whining about... anyway well done guys ye're all geniuses after the event:superman: .. 3rd and 2 was a good playcall- i dont care what any of ye think

ChrisG
11-20-2006, 06:57 AM
Second guessing huh, well then we should have gone for it on 4 and 2 then right. Gotta go for broke don't we. They still had that time out and may have burned it, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't have scored on our "prevent defense" and even then we still had a shot on that kickoff return. Which wouldn't have even been possible had we ran it, because then more than likely they might have scored on their last play.

in terms of that play a run would have been better, but there was poor play calling throughout the 2nd half, case in point the prevent def

JDizzle
11-20-2006, 07:45 AM
After 4 years of Capers football I am not that upset with the call. The offense was playing so terrible anyways and I'm not sure we would have picked up the 2 yards on the ground either. Kubiak gave his QB a chance to make a big play with an easy-cheese slant to AJ and Carr botches it with an awful pass. I can see why one would question the call, much like the one last week, because they aren't calls most coaches would make.

mganz
11-20-2006, 07:58 AM
However even though all those things were well and good the placement was off. Had the ball been placed where Johnson could pull it in we would all be praising the call.

the ball was thrown high but it was catchable. I stated in another thread that AJ released from his guy late. But again not a great throw

HJam72
11-20-2006, 08:09 AM
I agree that it was a bad call and I pretty much hate that zone defense, not that I could actually SEE the game, but I'm not worried about Kubiak in the long run. He's a good coach. He's just a rookie at it. I wasn't listening at all when the 2 TDs were scored against us in the first qtr., but that just can't happen on D and I blame that and Cook's fumble more than anything. Cook isn't a fumbler, IIRC about his past, but he really needs to get that straightened out. That's the second game we've lost this year that we definitely outplayed the winning team. At least we're LOOKING good though. For instance, I was just last week starting to complain about Orr in a 4-3 and he got....what?....6 tackles and one killer sack, I believe. I was starting too get really worried about this D not getting turnovers, and now that's gotten better. We can't lose every game in the final seconds. Some of them will go our way.

Malloy
11-20-2006, 08:12 AM
Run on 3'd and 2, then if no first down is achieved, have Carr run backwards on the field with the ball, burn as much time as possible and give them a safety. Less time, same field position.

Only problem is, it's now a 2-point game... oh well, did not happen. We lost that's how this game is sometimes :)

cuppacoffee
11-20-2006, 08:42 AM
the ball was thrown high but it was catchable. I stated in another thread that AJ released from his guy late. But again not a great throw

Someone who gets it.

Spencer Tillman breaks down the play in his segment on CH 13.

He shows Moulds turning his numbers to Carr quickly, giving him a target.

Andre is still busy playing pitty pat with the DB.

Carr should have gone to Moulds, that was his only mistake on the play.

Andre Johnson is the most over-rated player on this team, if not in the entire NFL, not Carr.

Strange how C Johnson, T Owens and the other good recievers can get open and Johnson can't. Andre isn't the only reciever in the NFL to be double teamed.

Posters on this board whine about Carr not throwing the ball deep.

When he does his pro bowl receiver either gets out jumped or out muscled by a receiver who is six inches shorter and forty pounds ligher than he is.

Other receivers get open and also fight for the ball. Johnson does neither.

Go ahead, quote me Johnsons great numbers.

Carr has great numbers too, but it's all his fault we lose.:lightbulb:
Brilliant observation.

Carrs most telling stat the last few years are the sacks he has taken while waiting for his non receivers, Johnson included, to get open.

:coffee:

kingh99
11-20-2006, 09:00 AM
Our offense does not score enough points, never has. People say our offense was great today and Carr was super and we controlled the game 90% of the time, etc.etc.

Folks, we didn't score a single offensive point in the second half. Carr has not thrown a TD in 4 games, only 9 in 10 games--3 TDs in one game means David has thrown 6 TDs in the other 9 games...and we're playing 'great' offensive football? 4 TDs in the last 3 games ain't going to win very many games...

...and the 'playing not to lose' play calling...geeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzz...don't get me started:confused: :yahoo: :brickwall :lightbulb:

Ball control with the short passing game is the pits. Ugly to watch and you keep waiting for the mistake and turnover to result in -0- points. What happened yesterday in the middle of Carr's milking 22 receptions for little effect? The back put the ball on the ground before the 20th pass in the series found the end zone. They ran out of luck tossing the ball around.

HJam72
11-20-2006, 09:04 AM
Ball control with the short passing game is the pits.

Tell that to Joe Montana. Of course, there's so many differences in situations that it's rediculous, but my point is that it can work very well with the right personnel and all that. What went wrong was play-calling at the end of the game, Cook, and the 2 first qtr. TDs.

dalemurphy
11-20-2006, 09:06 AM
Run on 3'd and 2, then if no first down is achieved, have Carr run backwards on the field with the ball, burn as much time as possible and give them a safety. Less time, same field position.

Only problem is, it's now a 2-point game... oh well, did not happen. We lost that's how this game is sometimes :)

That's a ridiculous idea. You would stop the clock for them and eliminate 30 yards of ground that they would need to cover in order to win the game (field goal instead of TD)

The highest percentage play was to simply run it for the first. That accomplishes to goals: 1. gives us a reasonable shot at a 1st down... 2. Forces Buffalo to use the final timeout if we don't make it. The Texans know that and so does Buffalo. Kubiak played against the tendencies thinking they could take advantage of the situation. Unfortunately it didn't work. Let's move on!

Malloy
11-20-2006, 09:12 AM
That's a ridiculous idea. You would stop the clock for them and eliminate 30 yards of ground that they would need to cover in order to win the game (field goal instead of TD)

The highest percentage play was to simply run it for the first. That accomplishes to goals: 1. gives us a reasonable shot at a 1st down... 2. Forces Buffalo to use the final timeout if we don't make it. The Texans know that and so does Buffalo. Kubiak played against the tendencies thinking they could take advantage of the situation. Unfortunately it didn't work. Let's move on!

uhm... ok.. Sorry....

moving on.

Vinny
11-20-2006, 10:21 AM
You don't stop the clock in this situation.

Football is a strategy game and every action has an equal and opposite reaction...use some FRIGGIN' SOUND FOOTBALL STRATEGY KUBIAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Double Barrel
11-20-2006, 10:29 AM
The highest percentage play was to simply run it for the first. That accomplishes to goals: 1. gives us a reasonable shot at a 1st down... 2. Forces Buffalo to use the final timeout if we don't make it. The Texans know that and so does Buffalo. Kubiak played against the tendencies thinking they could take advantage of the situation. Unfortunately it didn't work. Let's move on!

You don't stop the clock in this situation.

Both posts hit the nail on the head, IMO, and I agree 100%. :howdy: football 101

Jim Nayzium
11-20-2006, 10:57 AM
I think the big bungle was actually the long incomplete pass to AJ that stopped the clock around the 4:00 mark. Running the ball instead of passing would have eaten up at least 20-25 more seconds - which might have made the difference.

This is so true...

Here is the deal people....

Kubiak ran the ball on 3rd and 15 with 9 minutes to go in the game as if to say, "Ball-Control, run the clock, no mistakes..."

Then when it counted most in the game, he choked.....CHOKED.

Anyone saying, wow we could have tricked them, or "You just gotta make that catch...." Here is my response to you ----- YOU ARE A FRIGGIN MORON!!!!

There is one, and I repeat ONE, absolute way to test out in hindsight whether your play-call was a terrible one or not....

IF, at the end of the play that was executed, it would have been better for the team if the person you decide to give the ball to was shot by a sniper and killed before he had the chance to do anything with it.

TWO _ TIMES in that game, if the Sniper shoots Carr before an incompletion, we win either time.

4 minutes to go, stupid deep ball (which is even stupidly selfish, as it woud have been pass number 23...at least throw a completable ball on the record breaker...)

And 3rd and 2...

So running game fans get off your high horse...I am not saying, 'We should have run the ball cuz it was only two yards...'

I am saying, Where is Lee Harvey Oswald when you need him? As the ball is hiked to Carr on 3rd and 2...he is picked off from the press-box by a 30-06 prior to throwing the ball....

Bills save their last time out and we run 30 more seconds...we win....
or Bills take the last time out, and then don't have the 9 seconds left to win with cuz they were tackled in bounds 4 times...

A team stupid enough to get tackled in bounds 4 times with 1 timeout left, surely gets tackled in bounds twice with no time outs left....

BOTTOM LINE, If Carr downs the ball on 3rd and 2 WE WIN.....

Beyond fear of contradiction!

bah007
11-20-2006, 11:12 AM
This is so true...

Here is the deal people....

Kubiak ran the ball on 3rd and 15 with 9 minutes to go in the game as if to say, "Ball-Control, run the clock, no mistakes..."

Then when it counted most in the game, he choked.....CHOKED.

Anyone saying, wow we could have tricked them, or "You just gotta make that catch...." Here is my response to you ----- YOU ARE A FRIGGIN MORON!!!!

There is one, and I repeat ONE, absolute way to test out in hindsight whether your play-call was a terrible one or not....

IF, at the end of the play that was executed, it would have been better for the team if the person you decide to give the ball to was shot by a sniper and killed before he had the chance to do anything with it.

TWO _ TIMES in that game, if the Sniper shoots Carr before an incompletion, we win either time.

4 minutes to go, stupid deep ball (which is even stupidly selfish, as it woud have been pass number 23...at least throw a completable ball on the record breaker...)

And 3rd and 2...

So running game fans get off your high horse...I am not saying, 'We should have run the ball cuz it was only two yards...'

I am saying, Where is Lee Harvey Oswald when you need him? As the ball is hiked to Carr on 3rd and 2...he is picked off from the press-box by a 30-06 prior to throwing the ball....

Bills save their last time out and we run 30 more seconds...we win....
or Bills take the last time out, and then don't have the 9 seconds left to win with cuz they were tackled in bounds 4 times...

A team stupid enough to get tackled in bounds 4 times with 1 timeout left, surely gets tackled in bounds twice with no time outs left....

BOTTOM LINE, If Carr downs the ball on 3rd and 2 WE WIN.....

Beyond fear of contradiction!

Is it even fun to watch the game when you can see the future?

gwallaia
11-20-2006, 11:46 AM
I normally do not second guess play calling, but that was a stupid call Kubiak made on 3rd and 2.

kingh99
11-20-2006, 11:53 AM
It is not on Kubiak. Close your eyes and imagine this coming from David Carr's lips:

"Coach called the quick out to Andre but when I saw he was covered and I had single coverage on Owen, I pump faked my throw to Andre and hit Owen wide open on the crossing route. It was beautiful."

You'll never read that because David Carr is a pampered yes man who never had to check off in his life much less a football game. And he would have pulled the ball and run before stepping up in the pocket and make a play with his arm and brain.

TK_Gamer
11-20-2006, 12:07 PM
What do you mean it was a stupid play call? Everyone in the world was expecting the run, and to try to trick and pass, it was a good try. If it would have worked, you wouldnt be saying crap. God i hate people that second guess a play call AFTER the fact. Carr had been doing good all day and he threw A bad pass.

come on dude I know you know footblall better than that, it was a lame call, any coach in the league would say run the ball and force them to burn there time out. you know it. if we were in a drive down the field when the game wasnt on the line, yes, then a pass would have been a good call, but not with 1:48 left and the other team with one time out remaining. I really get tired of people kissing up to kubiak no matter what he does. he is a good coach he has done wonders with carr and the team, but he makes bad play calls because he has never been a head coach and it shows.

TexansFanatic
11-20-2006, 02:15 PM
This game was so heartbreaking because it revealed something very worrisome about our new head coach.

I really like Kubiak and I was really happy when he was hired. And even though we've lost a lot of games this year, things were beginning to look like they were improving. The new head coach had a great first draft. And even though there have been some dismal displays of football on the field this year, one could still point to positive signs of change.

But this loss does lie squarely on the new head coach and the dreadful playcalling---especially the pass on 3rd and two at the bitter end. And the really sickening thing about it is that it could happen again and again and again.

If the head coach is so obviously the cause of a loss, how can the fans or the players maintain faith that things will every improve under him?

hollywood_texan
11-20-2006, 02:31 PM
First things first, I am not a West Coast Offense guy.

Having said that, that 3-2 play to seal the game was a classic West Coast Offense play that is high percentage is if you have the right players and there is execution.

I think you guys don't understand the offense. Kubiak ran a play that involves it's two best players in a classis West Coast Offense situation and they didn't come through. By the way, this is why I don't like the West Coast Offense style. But, I don't want to digress into my philosophy.

Back to point though, maybe Kubiak's failure was thinking it could be successful after watching hours and hours of these two practicing that play.

I feel pretty confident that Kubiak labeled that play as a go to play for weeks in that situation. And, I am pretty sure Carr and Johnson weren't surprised when it was called. Furthermore, I suspect Kubiak has sat down with both Carr and Johnson about their opportunity and the failure that resulted.

Clearly, Carr and Johnson do not seem to be on the same page for them to live up to all the money and expectations.

Honoring Earl 34
11-20-2006, 03:06 PM
It is my opinion that Kubiak put the ball in Carr's hands to win the game . I know running the ball would be the smart move but I guess this was some sort of test . I have to think that Kubiak told Carr to look at AJ ... if its not there look elsewhere , fall down , slide , run , anything , but don't throw a bad pass , keep the clock moving .

Hey Losman and 1st year 6th rd. pick Gradkowski won for their teams ... I guess in time it'll be our day .

TexansFanatic
11-20-2006, 03:09 PM
I don't mind a quick slant to AJ on third and 2 in the first 58min of the game.....but in the fourth qtr. with the game on the line and the opposing team with only one time out w/under 2min remaining you JUST RUN the freakin ball.8 year old kids playing Madden football know what to do in that situation but our genius of a head coach didn't?I don't care how high of a percentage play that is in the WCO, that 1% chance of failure happened and cost us a hard fought game!!I hope he doesn't make any excuses today and takes some blame on that playcall!!:twocents:


Right. I understand the concept of the WCO and its high percentage pass plays. Very similar to the Run N Shoot in that regard. But clock management is Football 101. An incomplete pass stops the clock. A run that picks up only 1 yard, or even results in a net loss, keeps the clock running and puts a stranglehold on the opponent.

GETTING THE FIRST DOWN WAS LESS IMPORTANT THAN RUNNING THE CLOCK!!!! HELLOOOOO????

Double Barrel
11-20-2006, 03:25 PM
We had 188 rushing yards yesterday, so gaining two yards shouldn't have been all that difficult. And even if the Bills stopped us and we had to punt, they'd either lose a bunch of clock or use their last timeout. That's basic clock management.

Putting the game in Carr's hands might have been a test, but I certainly hope that wasn't the case. Seemed more like a coaching brain fart more than anything else to me. Considering Kubiak didn't think our offense could run a two minute drill at the end of the first half just weeks ago, I find the call very odd. I look forward to his answers about this situation.

Ibar_Harry
11-20-2006, 05:27 PM
You don't stop the clock in this situation.

Football is a strategy game and every action has an equal and opposite reaction...use some FRIGGIN' SOUND FOOTBALL STRATEGY KUBIAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


What have I been saying for weeks, Vinny? It really hurts to watch a team play so well and loose it on bone head plays at the end. Some people are gifted when it comes to performing under pressure and some are not. I'm afraid Kubiak, at least right now, doesn't seem to be able to act under pressure. Some would say just like Carr others would say just like Capers. All I know is I have been screaming about poor game management for some time now and being lambasted by a lot of people. Kubiak is a great teacher of the game, but he is not a great game time manager.

Texan_Bill
11-20-2006, 05:32 PM
What have I been saying for weeks, Vinny? It really hurts to watch a team play so well and loose it on bone head plays at the end. Some people are gifted when it comes to performing under pressure and some are not. I'm afraid Kubiak, at least right now, doesn't seem to be able to act under pressure. Some would say just like Carr others would say just like Capers. All I know is I have been screaming about poor game management for some time now and being lambasted by a lot of people. Kubiak is a great teacher of the game, but he is not a great game time manager.

For the most part I like what Kubaik has done so far, however, we needed to run the ball in that particular situation...... Kubes' bad for sure.

Just curious... I wonder how much responsibility he had as an O coordinator for similar situations. In other words, was yesterday a rookie coaching mistake or can he not get the grasp? I guess we'll find out.

HJam72
11-22-2006, 11:01 AM
3rd and 2. You have the ball and the lead with under 2 minutes to go (I think it was). This is where you think to yourself:

I have told these guys these times would happen and they knew it anyway. Everybody in the building knows we're going to run it and my players know that too. No tricks. No OUTSMARTING OURSELVES. This is where that word "methodical" comes in. We'll run it whereever we like, but we will run it.

Homer
11-22-2006, 11:21 AM
Agreed. As far as the call itself, It looked to me that Moulds was open half a step. Not to feed the Carr bashers, just saying. With the three step drop, kinda hard to fault Carr with the choice. A.J is the league leader isn't he ? Don't you want to give the bell cow a chance to redeem his day ? Buffalo corner just had a pro bowl day against us. Seems to be a reoccouring theme though. We go into half time and our offense cannot even generate a feild goal try. I think the rest of the season we can pretty much expect an '05 preformance. The same group equals the same production. And to that thought, it just might be the brain trust realizes this and glad to be up at the half figured our best chance to win was to gaurd the lead. We may not agree with this. But the fact is they know and we don't. We just don't have a very tallented football team right now. Kubes and the coaches gave the players their best chance to win. They can't execute for them.

You can fault Carr with the choice because AJ was covered well all day and if he was going to pass they knew it was going to AJ. Bad play call, should have run.

hollywood_texan
11-22-2006, 11:45 AM
3rd and 2. You have the ball and the lead with under 2 minutes to go (I think it was). This is where you think to yourself:

I have told these guys these times would happen and they knew it anyway. Everybody in the building knows we're going to run it and my players know that too. No tricks. No OUTSMARTING OURSELVES. This is where that word "methodical" comes in. We'll run it whereever we like, but we will run it.

I have been saying this over and over. It wasn't a bad call considering Kubiak is running the West Coast Offense. Which was one of the points of keeping Carr because he could run that type of offense!

There wasn't a better time to see if the personnel could execute! It was a simple play that should have been automatic between Carr and Johnson.

I feel pretty confident that Carr and AJ have worked on that play since day 1 when Kubiak came in. Furthermore, since they were tearing them up on the ground, it should have led to an easier passing game. I have heard so many times that we do not have a strong passing game because we don't have a strong running game.

As for you comment of running the ball whenever we like to, I don't think that it is the West Coast Offense. It is a balanced attack using a short passing game to take the place of a certain amount of running plays.

The way you guys are railing on this play, I am thinking you liked Caper's play calling, because that is what you are talking about. But, isn't that what the Texans are trying to get away from?

Maybe Kubiak's mistake was thinking Carr and Johnson could get that easy play done. I don't know how many times they run it practice and how well they do it, but I am sure Kubiak had a pretty good idea. This was to see where the offense is and can it be successful running the West Coast Offense. It looks like the answer is no for right now.

Honoring Earl 34
11-22-2006, 11:53 AM
Would it have been a bad call if Montana was the QB and Rice was the WR ? Carr was picked higher than Joe and AJ was picked higher than Rice .
It was a bad call in a stratigec sense but you have got to find out who wins games .

Runner
11-22-2006, 12:17 PM
You can fault Carr with the choice because AJ was covered well all day and if he was going to pass they knew it was going to AJ. Bad play call, should have run.

According to Carr's radio show last Monday, the play was double slant routes. The first option was Moulds on the opposite side, but the linebacker filled that lane and Carr went to Dre.

wolfscar
11-22-2006, 12:47 PM
The highest percentage play was to simply run it for the first. That accomplishes two goals: 1. gives us a reasonable shot at a 1st down... 2. Forces Buffalo to use the final timeout if we don't make it.
The Texans know that and so does Buffalo. Kubiak played against the tendencies thinking they could take advantage of the situation. Unfortunately it didn't work. Let's move on!

Thankyou.

I think 99% of people would agree that 9 times out of 10 you run the ball in that situation, but that's the best time to go the unexpected route. If it works we can run down the clock and we win. If it doesn't work, they have one more timeout to work with. It's not a stonewall bonehead call - it was a play to close out the game and not give them a chance to bring it back down the field. It just didn't work is all.

It wasn't a perfect playcalling game from Kubiak, but how many games see every play working out perfectly? Overall, his calls scored us points, stopped them getting anywhere through 90% of the game and left us within 9 seconds of winning with a team that has two badly beaten-up lines, no FS, crappy OLBs, two inexperienced backup RBs and one CB. If you take out those two long TDs to Evans we were all over them.

That's not bad, all in all.

HJam72
11-22-2006, 11:20 PM
The biggest issue here is time management. You gain something (making them use their last time-out) by running, even if you fail at getting the first down. You gain nothing if an incompletion is thrown. Sometimes, you have to run the ball, even if the D is expecting it. If we'd had 5 minutes left in the game, I'd have loved that call, or especially if it was 3rd qtr. or something, but we didn't and we needed to burn the clock. It always comes down to "execution", I know, but who wants to hear that word these days?

Roughnecks
11-22-2006, 11:44 PM
At lease he owned up to it and took the blame who knows maybe he had confidence in the D to step up like the O did the week before.

Maddict5
11-23-2006, 06:50 PM
The biggest issue here is time management. You gain something (making them use their last time-out) by running, even if you fail at getting the first down. You gain nothing if an incompletion is thrown. Sometimes, you have to run the ball, even if the D is expecting it. If we'd had 5 minutes left in the game, I'd have loved that call, or especially if it was 3rd qtr. or something, but we didn't and we needed to burn the clock. It always comes down to "execution", I know, but who wants to hear that word these days?


we're all geniuses after the event

Maddict5
11-23-2006, 07:01 PM
You don't stop the clock in this situation.

Football is a strategy game and every action has an equal and opposite reaction...use some FRIGGIN' SOUND FOOTBALL STRATEGY KUBIAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

see above....

you make it sound like kubiak called a spike

ps- if we had run and were stopped im pretty sure you wouldve been whining and making a sarcastic 'great playcalling there' etc...like you always do


you guys are pathetic- ive heard ye ***** sooooo many times about capers predictable, playing not to lose, playcalling but when kubiak plays to win its the same story..... just because it didnt work doesnt mean it was a bad playcall...

NATHANHALE
11-23-2006, 07:34 PM
At lease he owned up to it and took the blame who knows maybe he had confidence in the D to step up like the O did the week before.

Kubiak doesn't have a problem accepting blame--keeping promises is a different story.

HJam72
11-23-2006, 08:31 PM
we're all geniuses after the event

Most of us don't need to wait until after. :tease:

GNTLEWOLF
11-24-2006, 04:54 AM
I have to agree that the pass on 3rd and two with that short of time left was a bonehead call. It was a time management mistake.

NATHANHALE
11-24-2006, 09:56 AM
According to Carr's radio show last Monday, the play was double slant routes. The first option was Moulds on the opposite side, but the linebacker filled that lane and Carr went to Dre.

I may be wrong but didn't AJ have 3 Bills around him? If so, how many Bills would have been on Moulds?

Were we in max protect mode, with both TE's pass blocking along with the RB, leaving just the wide outs in the pattern?

Too, Carr threw 'high' to AJ on the short pass, like he expected AJ to go up after it like a down field jump ball--Kubiak mentioned it was a bad throw, so I'm assuming it should have been a 'laser' type throw.

IMO, this play was an 'accident' waiting to happen--just needing 2 yds, I can't imagine needing to be in max protect and only having 2 choices to throw to--no TE or RB in the pattern?

Like I said earlier, I may be totally 'off base' here--any help?

Bamaborn-Texasbred
11-24-2006, 09:58 AM
Yeah, Kubiak's dropped balls and fumbles are killing us.

And he can't play corner or safety to save his life.