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kubs-elway
11-15-2006, 02:40 PM
Word out of denver is that Jake Plummer hates the new o'coordinator, and shannahan. He has told friends that he will either be cut, or force a cut, and do whatever he can to play for kubiak once again. I believe jake will never be great, but he could take the texans to the playoffs. I bet he would come cheep after a bad year in denver, and probally force carr to play good or get the hell out of town.:stirpot:

joedinkle
11-15-2006, 02:43 PM
:stirpot:

stirring the pot indeed. Personally, I think Carr will continue to excel under Kubiak. That combined with his youth, I prefer him to Plummer.

kubs-elway
11-15-2006, 02:44 PM
I would prefer carr as well, but you would be in a great situation with him as a backup.

HOU-TEX
11-15-2006, 02:44 PM
Carr>Plummer

hollywood_texan
11-15-2006, 02:45 PM
Oh my, if this is true and Jake Plummer ends up in Houston, the drama that would be involved would be out of this world.

However, I think it is next to impossible for it to happen because I think Plummer makes more money than Carr, and I don't see Plummer taking a significant amount of a paycut to have both guys on the roster. Would like to hear some thoughts on the cap issue with this and it is even possible.

Texans Horror
11-15-2006, 02:48 PM
Any chance on a link? There are a lot of great Denver players who I think should jump ship to come play in Houston for Kubes...

powerfuldragon
11-15-2006, 02:48 PM
I don't like plummer and his pedo 'stache.

NEROtheZERO
11-15-2006, 02:53 PM
Any chance on a link? There are a lot of great Denver players who I think should jump ship to come play in Houston for Kubes...

Namely, Champ Bailey.

Texans Horror
11-15-2006, 02:55 PM
Offensive Linemen.

bah007
11-15-2006, 02:55 PM
Plummer is one of the most erratic QBs in the NFL.

His play is just as inconsistent as Vick's.

He has talent but I would rather have Carr.

Hulk75
11-15-2006, 03:00 PM
I also heard that monkeys will fly out of Vince Youngs ears at a news conference @ 4:00 today, he will be flown in a shuddle into outer space and do it from the moons surface.

David Carr is a better talent and better QB then Jake Plummer.

Texans_Chick
11-15-2006, 03:02 PM
I don't like plummer and his pedo 'stache.

LOL.

Yeah, if locals freaked at Carr's Jughead longish hairstyle, they would completely freak at Plummer's personal grooming habits.

Vinny
11-15-2006, 03:03 PM
Carr is obviously still improving. Jake is as good as he will ever be. If Carr can continue to play well I don't see it.

why would Champ Bailey want to come to Houston?

CLTEXAN_FAN
11-15-2006, 03:04 PM
I also heard that monkeys will fly out of Vince Youngs ears at a news conference @ 4:00 today, he will be flown in a shuddle into outer space and do it from the moons surface.

David Carr is a better talent and better QB then Jake Plummer.

That will be an expensive press conference

HOU-TEX
11-15-2006, 03:06 PM
LOL.

Yeah, if locals freaked at Carr's Jughead longish hairstyle, they would completely freak at Plummer's personal grooming habits.

LOL! Archie was one of my favorite comics back in the day. I even had the album...did I just say that outloud?

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
11-15-2006, 03:07 PM
Only if he brings the Denver Broncos' linebackers with him.

bah007
11-15-2006, 03:08 PM
Only if he brings the Denver Broncos' linebackers with him.

I would take their LBs.

But I wanna keep Ryans.

CLTEXAN_FAN
11-15-2006, 03:09 PM
I would take their LBs.

But I wanna keep Ryans.

Ryans will be a superstar

Brandon420tx
11-15-2006, 03:10 PM
I would take their LBs.

But I wanna keep Ryans.

We'll take their OLBs, and Champ Bailey

bah007
11-15-2006, 03:12 PM
We'll take their OLBs, and Champ Bailey

And CB Darrent Williams.

We could move Dunta to FS & Williams could return punts until Mathis comes back.

kubs-elway
11-15-2006, 03:12 PM
If you think this is a joke, YOU ARE WRONG, Plummer will take much less money to be with kubs, and he wants nothing more than to go somewhere else and the give the entire bronco nation the bird.

HJam72
11-15-2006, 03:14 PM
Well, IF the price is right, we should definitely take him.

santo
11-15-2006, 03:15 PM
If you think this is a joke, YOU ARE WRONG, Plummer will take much less money to be with kubs, and he wants nothing more than to go somewhere else and the give the entire bronco nation the bird.


But the real question is "Will Kubs want Plummer here in Houston?"

Brandon420tx
11-15-2006, 03:15 PM
Well, IF the price is right, we should definitely take him.

He'd be a good waterboy.

OrangeCountyTexansFan
11-15-2006, 03:18 PM
I'd rather just stick with David. And David already has a decent back-up.
(A back-up who ought to be taking more snaps during the practice week so he doesn't have to rely on just handing the ball off when he is put in, like he did against the Jags.)

Vinny
11-15-2006, 03:22 PM
If you think this is a joke, YOU ARE WRONG, Plummer will take much less money to be with kubs, and he wants nothing more than to go somewhere else and the give the entire bronco nation the bird.

But the real question is "Will Kubs want Plummer here in Houston?"
man, can we mix in an "E" for Kubes? I can change that name kubs-elway...if you want

Brandon420tx
11-15-2006, 03:23 PM
man, can we mix in an "E" for Kubes? I can change that name kubs-elway...if you want

but ... but ... there is no "E" in Kubiak :francis:

Vinny
11-15-2006, 03:26 PM
yeah...but doesn't the English language give the E the power to change the U? Kubs should be pronounced CUBS

TexanSam
11-15-2006, 03:29 PM
If Plummer came here, he would have to settle as a backup. I don't know if he'd be willing to do that.

Brandon420tx
11-15-2006, 03:31 PM
yeah...but doesn't the English language give the E the power to change the U? Kubs should be pronounced CUBS

Your point is moot! MOOT I say! ...

Goes into the corner.

HJam72
11-15-2006, 03:32 PM
If Plummer came here, he would have to settle as a backup. I don't know if he'd be willing to do that.

That's obviously part of the deal. He stays on the sidelines until needed, or he isn't coming here.

By the way, it's Plummr. :tease:

Grid
11-15-2006, 03:38 PM
If the price is right, id bring him in. Hes a vet... he knows Kubiaks system.. he has led a team to the playoffs...all nice to have in a QB.

I wouldnt expect him to come in and be the starter though.. id expect a battle in training camp. Some REAL competition may be good for Carr.

Then again..it may undermine his confidence and be taken as the coaches having a lack of faith in him.. so.. i dunno.

It would definatly be something worth considering in my mind though.

Bronco Texan
11-15-2006, 03:38 PM
If you think this is a joke, YOU ARE WRONG, Plummer will take much less money to be with kubs, and he wants nothing more than to go somewhere else and the give the entire bronco nation the bird.


This is a complete joke and until you provide a source it will still be a joke. I am frequently reading, listening, and watching about the Broncos. Plus I spend hours on their message board daily. I've heard nothing of this. Possible yes but nothing has come out of the Broncos corner. So please name your source.

Double Barrel
11-15-2006, 03:40 PM
Some team will want Plummer as a starter, and will pay him accordingly. I can think of at least 10 teams right now with sorry QBs.

I doubt he'd be happy in Houston as a backup, but you never know. Of course, this all depends on Kubiak deciding to keep Carr next season, too.

kubs-elway
11-15-2006, 03:49 PM
Plummer without Kubiak


Year Team G GS Att Comp Pct Yds TD Int Rate
1997 AZ 10 9 296 157 53.0 2203 15 15 73.1
1998 AZ 16 16 547 324 59.2 3737 17 20 75.0
1999 AZ 12 11 381 201 52.8 2111 9 24 50.8
2000 AZ 14 14 475 270 56.8 2946 13 21 66.0
2001 AZ 16 16 525 304 57.9 3653 18 14 79.6
2002 AZ 16 16 530 284 53.6 2972 18 20 65.7

PLUMMER WITH KUBIAK

Year Team G GS Att Comp Pct Yds TD Int Rate

2003 Denver Broncos 11 11 302 189 62.6 2182 26 5 91.2
2004 Denver Broncos 16 16 521 303 58.2 4089 55 9 84.5
2005 Denver Broncos 16 16 456 277 60.7 3366 44 8 90.2

PLUMMER WITHOUT KUBIAK

Year Team G GS Att Comp Pct Yds TD Int Rate
2006 Denver Broncos 9 9 248 137 55.2 1595 10 10 71.6

kubs-elway
11-15-2006, 03:52 PM
This is a complete joke and until you provide a source it will still be a joke. I am frequently reading, listening, and watching about the Broncos. Plus I spend hours on their message board daily. I've heard nothing of this. Possible yes but nothing has come out of the Broncos corner. So please name your source.

My source works for 850 Koa as a producer. He hits about 90% on everything he tells me. And where is your broncos corner, the orangemane, broncos freak, all reliable sources i ASSume.

NEROtheZERO
11-15-2006, 03:57 PM
Carr is obviously still improving. Jake is as good as he will ever be. If Carr can continue to play well I don't see it.

why would Champ Bailey want to come to Houston?

He wouldn't, I thought we were talking out of our asses here so I thought I'd join in.

Marcus
11-15-2006, 04:28 PM
yeah...but doesn't the English language give the E the power to change the U? Kubs should be pronounced CUBS
Man, I SOOOO agree with you on this one. Drives me crazy when I see "kubs".
It's not too lazy to add the E.

HOU-TEX
11-15-2006, 04:37 PM
Man, I SOOOO agree with you on this one. Drives me crazy when I see "kubs".
It's not too lazy to add the E.

What about spelling "loose" instead of lose? I'm not perfect by any means, but "loose".

loose=baggy, unfastened, etc.
lose=to be defeated, unable to find, misplaced, etc.

LOL!

Kaiser Toro
11-15-2006, 04:45 PM
I am not a Plummer fan and do not want him unless it is at league minimum. We are well invested at QB already and are not seeing the output that 8+ millin should yield. Spend it on OL and the secondary.

Txn_in_Oki
11-15-2006, 04:46 PM
I also heard that monkeys will fly out of Vince Youngs ears at a news conference @ 4:00 today, he will be flown in a shuddle into outer space and do it from the moons surface.



Link please. :francis:

The Pencil Neck
11-15-2006, 05:32 PM
LOL.

Yeah, if locals freaked at Carr's Jughead longish hairstyle, they would completely freak at Plummer's personal grooming habits.

Since when does Plummer have personal grooming habits?

austintexanite
11-15-2006, 05:32 PM
I'd prefer Carr as he's still improving and younger than the Snake.

hollywood_texan
11-15-2006, 05:38 PM
LOL.

Yeah, if locals freaked at Carr's Jughead longish hairstyle, they would completely freak at Plummer's personal grooming habits.


Since when does Plummer have personal grooming habits?

Grooming habits were never the issue, it was winning football games.

There is a saying in Texas, "be an arse hole all you want as long as you win football games."

The flip side is, you lose football games and people are going to be pulling at every loose thread you have, inlcuding anything personal. Just goes with the territory, particularly if you play QB.

And don't give me it shouldn't be that way because there is another saying, "can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen."

hollywood_texan
11-15-2006, 05:39 PM
I'd prefer Carr as he's still improving and younger than the Snake.

As a season ticketholder for 5 years, I will take a winning season as quickly as possible.

mexican_texan
11-15-2006, 05:40 PM
Since when does Plummer have personal grooming habits?
The only thing I will say to this is that he drives a Honda Element. Don't want to open a can of worms...;)

Anyway, I've been wondering about Plummer. I doubt he will succeed anywhere without Kubiak. I think he'll eventually land in Houston. Hopefully, he'll just be asking how to get to Dallas.

michaelm
11-15-2006, 05:48 PM
What about spelling "loose" instead of lose? I'm not perfect by any means, but "loose".

loose=baggy, unfastened, etc.
lose=to be defeated, unable to find, misplaced, etc.

LOL!


That's all to much too handle... :)

bah007
11-15-2006, 05:48 PM
The only thing I will say to this is that he drives a Honda Element. Don't want to open a can of worms...;)

Anyway, I've been wondering about Plummer. I doubt he will succeed anywhere without Kubiak. I think he'll eventually land in Houston. Hopefully, he'll just be asking how to get to Dallas.

Unlikely, considering how well Romo is playing.

ridn4_8
11-15-2006, 06:10 PM
Unless DC just, all of a sudden stops developing under Kubes (with an E...lol), I see no reason why he would want Plummer. Kubes gets an opportunity to mold a QB the way he needs him to be for his system of play. Granted, DC comes in "tarnished", if you will, from his years under Capers. But it seems to me that DC is coming along with the system.

The other thing to consider, is how well would Plummer hold up with improved, but still leaky O-line? Plummer aint no spring chicken anymore... Then there is the reality check...
Plummer stands a better chance of getting to the Playoffs/Super Bowl with Denver, this year and most likely next year (Super Bowl only), than he does with the Texans. Please dont take this as negative fan talk...The last thing I am with the Texans is negative. However, we all know that this year, a Playoff berth is unlikely.

I'll hold onto next year for that.

Bamaborn-Texasbred
11-15-2006, 06:26 PM
The money you would have to spend on Plummer would be better used for O line and Dback help.

jonO_miller
11-15-2006, 07:35 PM
ha w/e take their middle and dj. Let them keep ian gold and stick ryans back at olb

Roughnecks
11-15-2006, 10:29 PM
He throws a lot of int's. One day he looks like a leader the next 3 games he throws 8 int's no thank you Carr is doing fine and has shown he will give up his body or run someone over for a first down or TD.

phan1
11-16-2006, 03:58 AM
Word out of denver is that Jake Plummer hates the new o'coordinator, and shannahan. He has told friends that he will either be cut, or force a cut, and do whatever he can to play for kubiak once again. I believe jake will never be great, but he could take the texans to the playoffs. I bet he would come cheep after a bad year in denver, and probally force carr to play good or get the hell out of town.:stirpot:

Is this totally through the grapvine? I mean C'mon, I don't think any QB should be that upset when you're still winning games. And links? Even the Broncos message boards should have a topic about this...

brewhaus
11-16-2006, 05:34 AM
The money you would have to spend on Plummer would be better used for O line and Dback help.

Amen Bama !!

bigbrewster2000
11-16-2006, 07:08 AM
PLUMMER WITH KUBIAK

Year Team G GS Att Comp Pct Yds TD Int Rate

2003 Denver Broncos 11 11 302 189 62.6 2182 26 5 91.2
2004 Denver Broncos 16 16 521 303 58.2 4089 55 9 84.5
2005 Denver Broncos 16 16 456 277 60.7 3366 44 8 90.2
Hey if you are going to put stats up then get it right. Plummer did not throw 55 td's 2 yrs ago nor did he throw 44 last year and this thread has no credibility.

Malloy
11-16-2006, 07:22 AM
Carr>Plummer

If you're the starting QB for a 7-2 team, I'm suspecting that you are not too bad ;)

infantrycak
11-16-2006, 08:38 AM
Hey if you are going to put stats up then get it right. Plummer did not throw 55 td's 2 yrs ago nor did he throw 44 last year and this thread has no credibility.

Those are the number of 20+ and 40+ passing plays. The TD/INT's were:

2003 15/7
2004 27/20
2005 18/7

Cjeremy635
11-16-2006, 09:15 AM
I don't like plummer and his pedo 'stache.

Dude, that funny 'cause I got the same feeling about that "thing"! I can't help but think he looks like 70's porn film actor.

FanFromCali
11-16-2006, 09:31 AM
Plummer was a great QB in college but has done very little in the pros. (Kind of like a certain 3rd string RB the team has right now.) The fact is the Broncos haven't won because of him, they have won in spite of him.

This is money that would be better spent in other areas.

The Pencil Neck
11-16-2006, 09:48 AM
If you're the starting QB for a 7-2 team, I'm suspecting that you are not too bad ;)

That's not an assumption I'd make.

HOU-TEX
11-16-2006, 10:04 AM
If you're the starting QB for a 7-2 team, I'm suspecting that you are not too bad ;)

Having never said he was bad, I do think he's the primary reason thier offense has kind of sputtered this year. If it weren't for thier D, they'd be in a completly different situation. Right?

Texan_Bill
11-16-2006, 11:52 AM
Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD
2006 den | 9 | 137 248 55.2 1595 6.4 10 10 | 29 92 1 |

Not all that impressive, so I would look elsewhere for the Bronco's success this season

hollywood_texan
11-16-2006, 01:08 PM
You know what is interesting about this thread is that there are many people that are Carr supporters that do not want Plummer.

However, the Carr supporters, not necessarily these in particular, just the vibe from the group as a whole over the past year or so, talk about how great a coach Kubiak is in providing improvements to the play of the QB and site Plummer as their most recent example. Yet, they want to have nothing to do with Plummer.

It just seems so interesting how the Carr supporters can be so supportive of Kubiak and what he did for Plummer, and yet they don't even want to consider him for the team. It's amazing how will take any Bronco like Ron Dayne but not anyone that replaces Carr.

One guy even stated above that the Broncos have won so many games under Plummer despite his average play. You could make the same arguement about Carr and the three wins this season. The defense basically won those games by keeping it a low scoring game or providing a short field.

I am not a big Plummer fan but I think he might provide an improvement over Carr. But, I just I don't think this situation is possible because Plummer would have to take a huge paycut when he could get a nice contract somehwere else and be a starter. This is if Denver wants to unload him, which would probably mean a trade of some sort. I don't know Plummer's contract situation and what are the ways he could end up in Houston.

Having said that, Plummer might like his chances going against Carr and winning the position with an incentive laden contract because he can play with Kubiak again and already knows the system.

brewhaus
11-16-2006, 01:22 PM
You know what is interesting about this thread is that there are many people that are Carr supporters that do not want Plummer.

However, the Carr supporters, not necessarily these in particular, just the vibe from the group as a whole over the past year or so, talk about how great a coach Kubiak is in providing improvements to the play of the QB and site Plummer as their most recent example. Yet, they want to have nothing to do with Plummer.

It just seems so interesting how the Carr supporters can be so supportive of Kubiak and what he did for Plummer, and yet they don't even want to consider him for the team. It's amazing how will take any Bronco like Ron Dayne but not anyone that replaces Carr.

One guy even stated above that the Broncos have won so many games under Plummer despite his average play. You could make the same arguement about Carr and the three wins this season. The defense basically won those games by keeping it a low scoring game or providing a short field.

I am not a big Plummer fan but I think he might provide an improvement over Carr. But, I just I don't think this situation is possible because Plummer would have to take a huge paycut when he could get a nice contract somehwere else and be a starter. This is if Denver wants to unload him, which would probably mean a trade of some sort. I don't know Plummer's contract situation and what are the ways he could end up in Houston.

Having said that, Plummer might like his chances going against Carr and winning the position with an incentive laden contract because he can play with Kubiak again and already knows the system.

Carr has his ups. Carr has his downs. IMO the Texans can get 2 more years of good play out of him. After that, who knows. In those 2 years that are left, I really would like to see the thin spots of the team built up. Those thin spots are at every other position on the team. As was said earlier (I think), Depth is a good thing. :twocents:

HJam72
11-16-2006, 01:30 PM
Carr has his ups. Carr has his downs. IMO the Texans can get 2 more years of good play out of him. After that, who knows. In those 2 years that are left, I really would like to see the thin spots of the team built up. Those thin spots are at every other position on the team. As was said earlier (I think), Depth is a good thing. :twocents:

Huh? What, do you think he's getting old or something? Do you think he's just not good enough, but are willing to put up with him for two more years until the rest of the team is better? I don't get that statement.

Texan_Bill
11-16-2006, 01:41 PM
You know what is interesting about this thread is that there are many people that are Carr supporters that do not want Plummer.

However, the Carr supporters, not necessarily these in particular, just the vibe from the group as a whole over the past year or so, talk about how great a coach Kubiak is in providing improvements to the play of the QB and site Plummer as their most recent example. Yet, they want to have nothing to do with Plummer.

It just seems so interesting how the Carr supporters can be so supportive of Kubiak and what he did for Plummer, and yet they don't even want to consider him for the team. It's amazing how will take any Bronco like Ron Dayne but not anyone that replaces Carr.

One guy even stated above that the Broncos have won so many games under Plummer despite his average play. You could make the same arguement about Carr and the three wins this season. The defense basically won those games by keeping it a low scoring game or providing a short field.

I am not a big Plummer fan but I think he might provide an improvement over Carr. But, I just I don't think this situation is possible because Plummer would have to take a huge paycut when he could get a nice contract somehwere else and be a starter. This is if Denver wants to unload him, which would probably mean a trade of some sort. I don't know Plummer's contract situation and what are the ways he could end up in Houston.

Having said that, Plummer might like his chances going against Carr and winning the position with an incentive laden contract because he can play with Kubiak again and already knows the system.


First, I am not a Carr fan, but not a hater either. Just want to see his progression this season and then I will make my decision...

Second, I don't remember anyone (Carr hater or Carr pimp) celebrating the signing of Ron Dayne. I think everyone knew what that signing was. We needed a RB as it was becoming evident that DD was not going to make it back. I think Dayne was signed for the obvious reason and that was he knew the system and could come in late.

Plummer was only brought to Denver with Griese to fill the big shoes left by Elway. Denver had to make a decision between Griese and Plummer and chose the lesser of the two evils.

With respect to Kubiak, I was in his corner the first time he interviewed for the Head Coaching position (pre David Carr draft). With that said I trust his evaluation of talent. If he thinks that he can succeed with Carr than so be it. Again, DC has 7 more games to sway my opinion one way or the other.

In the end, if David isn't the guy, certainly the Texans can find a better alternative to Jake "the porn 'stache" Plummer.

"One guy even stated above that the Broncos have won so many games under Plummer despite his average play. You could make the same arguement about Carr and the three wins this season. The defense basically won those games by keeping it a low scoring game or providing a short field".

Denver has a lot more talent. Period. Also the same defense that you are talking about gave up about 10,000 yards and allowed the oponents 64% third down conversion success rate.... It aint apples to apples...

hollywood_texan
11-16-2006, 02:34 PM
Denver has a lot more talent. Period. Also the same defense that you are talking about gave up about 10,000 yards and allowed the oponents 64% third down conversion success rate.... It aint apples to apples...

Are you referring to the Texans defense giving up 10,000 yards?

I assume you are being sarcastic and commenting on their poor play the first three games. The first three games the defense was horrible but the offense was still slow and predicatable as always. The offense rarely gives the defense a lead to play with or even shortens up the clock.

The defense has played a lot better since the Washington game and the offense still can't muster more than 17 points in a game without a lot of help from the defense. With the offense, it's the same old thing.

The biggest improvement this season from last season is the defense. The defense keeps it close and the offense tries to win a close game just like the old Capers way.

Not much has really changed since Capers was fired if you really look at it.

Which brings me to my original point, if people are so high on Kubiak and what he did with Plummer and how the equates to Carr, why not at least entertain the idea of getting Plummer?

Plummer already knows the system and would provide serious competition for Carr.

Another post on another thread was someone saying that they still aren't sold on Richard Smith. This person is a very strong Carr supporter and doesn't want to entertain the idea of Plummer? It just doesn't make sense to me.

My point is that it just seems Carr gets a blank check for the remainder of his contract, which will be a total of 7 years with the Texans. Carr's stats are a little a better than last year, but they aren't great and Carr's play is not critical to a Texan's victory. At least not yet, which is probably the point, give Carr more time and no competition so he can develop. That seems to be the mantra.

I think at the right price, Plummer would be a great idea for the Texans.

bah007
11-16-2006, 02:39 PM
Are you referring to the Texans defense giving up 10,000 yards?

I assume you are being sarcastic and commenting on their poor play the first three games. The first three games the defense was horrible but the offense was still slow and predicatable as always. The offense rarely gives the defense a lead to play with or even shortens up the clock.

The defense has played a lot better since the Washington game and the offense still can't muster more than 17 points in a game without a lot of help from the defense. With the offense, it's the same old thing.

The biggest improvement this season from last season is the defense. The defense keeps it close and the offense tries to win a close game just like the old Capers way.

Not much has really changed since Capers was fired if you really look at it.

Which brings me to my original point, if people are so high on Kubiak and what he did with Plummer and how the equates to Carr, why not at least entertain the idea of getting Plummer?

Plummer already knows the system and would provide serious competition for Carr.

Another post on another thread was someone saying that they still aren't sold on Richard Smith. This person is a very strong Carr supporter and doesn't want to entertain the idea of Plummer? It just doesn't make sense to me.

My point is that it just seems Carr gets a blank check for the remainder of his contract, which will be a total of 7 years with the Texans. Carr's stats are a little a better than last year, but they aren't great and Carr's play is not critical to a Texan's victory. At least not yet, which is probably the point, give Carr more time and no competition so he can develop. That seems to be the mantra.

I think at the right price, Plummer would be a great idea for the Texans.

Carr's play is not critical to a Texans victory? You have got to be joking.

So far this season, when he plays good or great we are in the game.

When he plays bad, we lose. That sounds like a pretty critical part of the game.

Carr is a very consistent QB (rarely great, rarely bad) & Plummer is the exact opposite.

Sure, Plummer will go out there & throw for 300 yds & 3 TDs to win the game. Then the next two weeks he will go out & throw 2 or 3 INTs.

The way our defense is playing right now I would say that we need a consistent QB who wont lose us a game.

Texan_Bill
11-16-2006, 02:49 PM
Yes I was being sarcastic with the 10,000 yards... and while I like the improvement, lets not all start high fiving each other just yet. The improved D includes two wins over the Kitties (Leftnut and Garrad each), a loss to a bad Tack team and anotehr loss to a pretty good Giants team although even Giants fan will tell you that Eli is still inconsistent. Again, I like the improvement, but there is still a long way to go..

Anyway, I have never liked Plummer but I hear what you are saying about giving Carr competion so that he has to "earn" the starting position. In fact, that has always been a concern of mine that he has never been pushed. However, I also think that if Carr's season isn't a marked improvement (how we define that, is a different conversation), we should just rid ourselves of him. Contrary to popular beleif, there are teams out there that still think highly of him, so he has value.

I am a Kubiak fan for his whole body of work. Not anything to do with how he improved Plummer.

hollywood_texan
11-16-2006, 03:06 PM
Yes I was being sarcastic with the 10,000 yards... and while I like the improvement, lets not all start high fiving each other just yet. The improved D includes two wins over the Kitties (Leftnut and Garrad each), a loss to a bad Tack team and anotehr loss to a pretty good Giants team although even Giants fan will tell you that Eli is still inconsistent. Again, I like the improvement, but there is still a long way to go..

Anyway, I have never liked Plummer but I hear what you are saying about giving Carr competion so that he has to "earn" the starting position. In fact, that has always been a concern of mine that he has never been pushed. However, I also think that if Carr's season isn't a marked improvement (how we define that, is a different conversation), we should just rid ourselves of him. Contrary to popular beleif, there are teams out there that still think highly of him, so he has value.

I am a Kubiak fan for his whole body of work. Not anything to do with how he improved Plummer.

Since the Washington game, the defense has played good enough for the Texans to win the last six games. You could make the arguement that the defense was exposed in the second half of the Dallas game, but I really think the offense just dug the hole too deep early in the second half and the team kind of just gave up.

Bottom line, the defense has played very good the last six games. But, I do agree with you that the defensive problems are not resolved completely and the secondary needs a lot of work to compete against a very potent passing game. In addition, we really don't how this defense can play against a strong offense from top to bottom since their marked improvement. Basically, the jury still out on the defense.

My whole point about this Plummer thing is that entertaining the thought of replacing Carr should be done if it makes sense from a cap perspective with the possibility of upgrading the position. If the jury is still out on the defense and Richard Smith, then the jury is still out on Carr and with all his chances.

If Carr and Plummer were released the same day, I think Plummer would be picked up first or have first choice of his team. Sure, Plummer is older, but Carr still hasn't proved their is enough upside to hang in with him. Plummer is a proven commodity, you know what you get. Whereas with Carr, he is young (but not for much longer) and if he gets enough help, he just may become a good QB.

Ibar_Harry
11-16-2006, 04:51 PM
Since the Washington game, the defense has played good enough for the Texans to win the last six games. You could make the arguement that the defense was exposed in the second half of the Dallas game, but I really think the offense just dug the hole too deep early in the second half and the team kind of just gave up.

Bottom line, the defense has played very good the last six games. But, I do agree with you that the defensive problems are not resolved completely and the secondary needs a lot of work to compete against a very potent passing game. In addition, we really don't how this defense can play against a strong offense from top to bottom since their marked improvement. Basically, the jury still out on the defense.

My whole point about this Plummer thing is that entertaining the thought of replacing Carr should be done if it makes sense from a cap perspective with the possibility of upgrading the position. If the jury is still out on the defense and Richard Smith, then the jury is still out on Carr and with all his chances.

If Carr and Plummer were released the same day, I think Plummer would be picked up first or have first choice of his team. Sure, Plummer is older, but Carr still hasn't proved their is enough upside to hang in with him. Plummer is a proven commodity, you know what you get. Whereas with Carr, he is young (but not for much longer) and if he gets enough help, he just may become a good QB.

Carr is probably one of the physically toughest QB's in the league. You look around at all of the injuries and you under estimate his worth. He has been hit hard on many an occasion and kept on ticking. NFL coaches value this with the defenses that are out there today. In reality many teams are having O-line problems this year. As long as Carr is strong and healthy he will be in demand. Another factor is he doesn't have a big mouth and is supportive of his coach and the organization. Plummer carries baggage and the NFL knows it.

hollywood_texan
11-16-2006, 05:03 PM
Carr is probably one of the physically toughest QB's in the league. You look around at all of the injuries and you under estimate his worth. He has been hit hard on many an occasion and kept on ticking. NFL coaches value this with the defenses that are out there today. In reality many teams are having O-line problems this year. As long as Carr is strong and healthy he will be in demand. Another factor is he doesn't have a big mouth and is supportive of his coach and the organization. Plummer carries baggage and the NFL knows it.

I agree with you that Carr is physical tough and doesn't get injured regularly, but that has nothing to do with victories.

Same goes with him not having a big mouth. Who cares?

Winning is why I pay for season tickets and for being a fan.

As a long a player isn't a criminal, I believe he can be a jerk all he wants as long as he wins.

It is interesting how all of the points you make about Carr do not translate directly to an efffective Texans offense and victories.

Here are the things Carr has show so far that he can't do:

1. Run the two-minute drill
2. Pocket awareness
3. Hang on to the football
4. Throw deep down the middle of the field between the hashes

I am fine with Carr being the QB through 2008 to complete his contract as long as there are no other reasonable alternatives. But if something comes along, flush it out because the QB position isn't locked down.

Carr's job is no more locked up than anyone's elses job on this, which is really my point, or really the way it should be.

Double Barrel
11-16-2006, 05:14 PM
Not much has really changed since Capers was fired if you really look at it.

Going for it on 4th and inches with a three point lead and 1:40 on the clock in our own territory to win the game.

I'd say a LOT has changed since Capers was fired. The rest of the team just has to catch up to our head coach! :shades:

hollywood_texan
11-16-2006, 05:16 PM
Going for it on 4th and inches with a three point lead and 1:40 on the clock in our own territory to win the game.

I'd say a LOT has changed since Capers was fired. The rest of the team just has to catch up to our head coach! :shades:

I will give you that one DB!!!!

Let's just say there may be a trend and a trend going in the right direction for change with regard to the offense.

HOU-TEX
11-16-2006, 05:26 PM
Going for it on 4th and inches with a three point lead and 1:40 on the clock in our own territory to win the game.

I'd say a LOT has changed since Capers was fired. The rest of the team just has to catch up to our head coach! :shades:

LOL! Ain't that the truth! After the 4th down call. The team might just start filing in behind him.:yahoo:

Texan_Bill
11-16-2006, 05:31 PM
I see this spiraling out of control soon, so back to the original topic - I still wouldn't take Plummer. If Huard becomes available since it appears that Trent Green is really the Chiefs guy, I might think about him or someone similar with a W/C offense background.

With Respect to your 4 points:
1) I think that is unfair assessment because the two minute drill is a function of the coaching. Whether Kubes doesn't think he can run it or not - remains to be seen.
2) I think the sack numbers show great improvement in this area. I don't think we woke up with the O-line that Dan Marino had overnight.
3) Fumbles are a problem... Ask Roman Gabriel, Warren Moon and others.
4) I seem to remember a deep ball between the hash marks that Corey Bradford went the distance on and another that was thrown on a rope, but dropped by Jermaine Lewis.

Let me preface this by saying, we need to take shots down the field to be sure. Now, the ideaology behind the West Coast offense and its hybrids is to complete shorter, underneath routs. In effect, it becomes a ball control offense with the potential of your receivers turning it into big plays (See Jerry Rice and the main architect of the W/C offense Bill Walsh)

Last, I still agree with your point to push him or make him earn it - just please not Plummer.

hollywood_texan
11-16-2006, 05:43 PM
I see this spiraling out of control soon, so back to the original topic - I still wouldn't take Plummer. If Huard becomes available since it appears that Trent Green is really the Chiefs guy, I might think about him or someone similar with a W/C offense background.

With Respect to your 4 points:
1) I think that is unfair assessment because the two minute drill is a function of the coaching. Whether Kubes doesn't think he can run it or not - remains to be seen.
2) I think the sack numbers show great improvement in this area. I don't think we woke up with the O-line that Dan Marino had overnight.
3) Fumbles are a problem... Ask Roman Gabriel, Warren Moon and others.
4) I seem to remember a deep ball between the hash marks that Corey Bradford went the distance on and another that was thrown on a rope, but dropped by Jermaine Lewis.

Let me preface this by saying, we need to take shots down the field to be sure. Now, the ideaology behind the West Coast offense and its hybrids is to complete shorter, underneath routs. In effect, it becomes a ball control offense with the potential of your receivers turning it into big plays (See Jerry Rice and the main architect of the W/C offense Bill Walsh)

Last, I still agree with your point to push him or make him earn it - just please not Plummer.

I hear ya, and my main point is really to keep the feelers out there and make a move if it makes sense. I really don't think Plummer is the answer, but I would definitely listen to the arguements for Plummer and keep an open mind.

Like I said, I am fine with Carr being the starter for the remainder of his contract to just put this whole thing to rest, but let's keep the option open though.

I guess what I am really saying is, I don't think Carr has locked down his job (some people have talked on this thread that Carr is a lock, which is what I was really responding to) and if the right opportunity comes along, I hope the Texans really analyze it honestly.

Thanks for bearing with me, I wasn't trying to spiral this out of control.

RickDenver
11-16-2006, 08:39 PM
During the preseason I posted this as a possibility and did not get much of a response. What has not been mentioned is that Plummer has one year remaining on his contract. The thing that make it interesting is that last year has NO guarenteed money which would make it so Denver could release Plummer with NO cap hit. This is most likely Plummer's last season in Denver. Cutler has his season to sit and watch and will be taking over as the Denver QB next year. The only queation is Does Houston want to bring in Plummer to force Carr to grow as a QB. I think something that has hurt CArr's progress is that from day one he has been the guy with no real competetion for the starting QB. It has just been him by default

brewhaus
11-16-2006, 09:12 PM
During the preseason I posted this as a possibility and did not get much of a response. What has not been mentioned is that Plummer has one year remaining on his contract. The thing that make it interesting is that last year has NO guarenteed money which would make it so Denver could release Plummer with NO cap hit. This is most likely Plummer's last season in Denver. Cutler has his season to sit and watch and will be taking over as the Denver QB next year. The only queation is Does Houston want to bring in Plummer to force Carr to grow as a QB. I think something that has hurt CArr's progress is that from day one he has been the guy with no real competetion for the starting QB. It has just been him by default

I see the snake going to a team like Oakland before coming to Houston. :twocents:

Timbuck2
11-16-2006, 09:46 PM
i don't understand the comments made about bronco players (plummer and others) joining the team and excelling because they know kubiak's system. my somewhat foggy memories of kubiak and his broncos was an offense that had a running back that gained 1500 yds/season (see portis, gary, anderson...), plummer throwing for 3200 yds/season and an offense that averaged around 25 pts/gm. the texans are not that team. it would take the whole denver roster to accomplish that. do you see how dayne has fit into kubiak's system this year? do we really want more retreads from denver?

brncoz1fan
11-17-2006, 12:13 AM
Oh what a dream come true to get rid of Plummer! If anything do you think we could trade QBs for this weekend?? And how about Kubiak too!! To make it even Broncos get Kubiak, Carr and Dayne and will give you Plummer, Miles, Tatum "I can't handle it" Bell, and a couple of hot cheerleaders!

I love fantasy football!

HJam72
11-17-2006, 12:21 AM
Oh what a dream come true to get rid of Plummer! If anything do you think we could trade QBs for this weekend?? And how about Kubiak too!! To make it even Broncos get Kubiak, Carr and Dayne and will give you Plummer, Miles, Tatum "I can't handle it" Bell, and a couple of hot cheerleaders!

I love fantasy football!

You got a deal!!!! :joker: :marionaner:

bah007
11-17-2006, 12:22 AM
Oh what a dream come true to get rid of Plummer! If anything do you think we could trade QBs for this weekend?? And how about Kubiak too!! To make it even Broncos get Kubiak, Carr and Dayne and will give you Plummer, Miles, Tatum "I can't handle it" Bell, and a couple of hot cheerleaders!

I love fantasy football!

It's gonna take more than that.

We're pretty set at cheerleader. I would bet we have the best unit in the league.

brncoz1fan
11-17-2006, 12:38 AM
It's gonna take more than that.

We're pretty set at cheerleader. I would bet we have the best unit in the league.

I am considering throwing Shanny into the mix but I better sleep on it.

You got Miles for crying out loud!! Do you know how many small children and drunks are going to miss him???

The Pencil Neck
11-17-2006, 01:59 AM
I see the snake going to a team like Oakland before coming to Houston. :twocents:


Yeah. As much as Plummer may or may not want to be reunited with Kubiak, he's going to prefer going to a place where he's the recognized starter not somewhere he's going to have to beat someone out for the job. I bet a team like the Raiders, the Bills, the Lions, the Vikings or someone like that who doesn't have a really strong QB would just give him the job and then try to draft someone to groom behind him.

Of course, that means that the Raiders have to admit that Walters isn't their guy or that hte Bills will have to admit that Losman isn't their guy or the Lions will have to admit... uh... well... the Lions won't actually have to admit anything.

The Pencil Neck
11-17-2006, 02:05 AM
Oh what a dream come true to get rid of Plummer! If anything do you think we could trade QBs for this weekend?? And how about Kubiak too!! To make it even Broncos get Kubiak, Carr and Dayne and will give you Plummer, Miles, Tatum "I can't handle it" Bell, and a couple of hot cheerleaders!

I love fantasy football!

Well, at least send the cheerleaders and we'll give them the physical.

If they... uh... "fail"... the physical, will you send us some replacements? And... uh... how many times can we... uh... "fail" them and you send new ones?

brewhaus
11-17-2006, 08:51 AM
Huh? What, do you think he's getting old or something? Do you think he's just not good enough, but are willing to put up with him for two more years until the rest of the team is better? I don't get that statement.

It isn't that I don't think he is not good (or good enough), I just believe he will not be the one taking the Texans to the Promised Land.
At this point I would ask that you please "Chill" because I am not bashing DC, I am only stating my opinion. It is only that. "My opinion". Please don't Negative rep me for having an opinion.

brncoz1fan
11-17-2006, 09:23 AM
You got a deal!!!! :joker: :marionaner:

It's gonna take more than that.

We're pretty set at cheerleader. I would bet we have the best unit in the league.

Well, at least send the cheerleaders and we'll give them the physical.

If they... uh... "fail"... the physical, will you send us some replacements? And... uh... how many times can we... uh... "fail" them and you send new ones?

Come on guys, get your head in the game! I'm offering Tatum Bell! Lord knows you all need an RB and T.Bell would be a better addition to what you got and I don't want to hear about Lundi. He had a couple of good games (I don't count pre season especially against our 3rd string Broncos) but YPC dropping and no injury excuse. T.Bells turf toe should be all better now. The deadline is noon today!

Malloy
11-17-2006, 11:00 AM
Having never said he was bad, I do think he's the primary reason thier offense has kind of sputtered this year. If it weren't for thier D, they'd be in a completly different situation. Right?

My point was just, if he's playing for the Broncos and they're not losing because of Plummer playing poorly, then he's prolly not THAT bad :)

I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt, that's all :)

HOU-TEX
11-17-2006, 11:58 AM
My point was just, if he's playing for the Broncos and they're not losing because of Plummer playing poorly, then he's prolly not THAT bad :)

I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt, that's all :)

That's cool. I still wouldn't want Plummer as a Texan. Would you?

Malloy
11-17-2006, 12:02 PM
That's cool. I still wouldn't want Plummer as a Texan. Would you?

The jury is still out on that one to be honest. No-mistake Jake of 2005 sure looked cool.

If Kubiak wants Plummer here to create pressure on Carr I'm all for it, if he's not, then that's quite ok with me too :)


That was a kinda weak statement wouldn't you say so ? :)

HOU-TEX
11-17-2006, 12:05 PM
The jury is still out on that one to be honest. No-mistake Jake of 2005 sure looked cool.

If Kubiak wants Plummer here to create pressure on Carr I'm all for it, if he's not, then that's quite ok with me too :)


That was a kinda weak statement wouldn't you say so ? :)

I would have to guess he'd have to take a paycut to come here. Hey, I'm all for having DC challenged for his position.:redtowel:

jerek
11-17-2006, 12:18 PM
Great idea. Take David Carr and strip him of whatever football sense he has, and you get Jake Plummer. Oh yeah, and he's older too. No thanks.

El Tejano
11-17-2006, 02:33 PM
Give us some of their defensive guys and a RT.

kubiakfan
11-19-2006, 06:28 PM
okay leave my Shanny alone, he is one of the great masterminds in nfl history. I wouldnt mind taking Kubes back though :wink: and Ron Danyne, and maybe getting Kyle Shannhan lol. BTW I doubt Jake Plummer is going anywhere, as much as I want Cutler in, plummer is still a good QB who can get the job done.