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View Full Version : Going for it on 4th down


keyser
11-13-2006, 10:44 AM
Obviously, in hindsight the call to go for it was good since they made it, but I'm wondering whether others think it was the right call, in that situation.

Did anyone else find it exactly like the situation in the Texas A&M-Oklahoma game a week and a half ago? One team (Oklahoma, Texans) was ahead, but the other team (Aggies, Jags) had a lot of momentum, needed the ball back for just one field goal, and had forced 4th down and short on the opponent's side of the field. Oklahoma went for it in that situation, getting the 1st down and ending the game, and the Texans did the same thing. I doubt Kubiak has time to watch Texas A&M games any more, but I wonder if that play was in his mind when he decided to go for it.

Double Barrel
11-13-2006, 11:06 AM
I thought it was a great call, and win or lose, I would have been behind Kubiak's decision. He basically told his team that the burden is on them to win the game by moving the ball forward a few inches. If they couldn't do that, then maybe they didn't deserve a win. They responded to the gut check, and having the belief of the head coach in them will pay dividends down the road.

It was a breath of fresh air to see a play-to-win mentality on our sideline. I got sick and tired of the play-not-to-lose routine, so as fans, we just have to realize that our head coach is a risk-taker.

jerek
11-13-2006, 11:10 AM
Let me preface this by saying I didn't watch the game -- I was in Cowgirl country, this weekend -- so I don't really have a feel for the momentum or the flow of the game at that point. I followed the second half on the internet which obviously doesn't really give you a feel for things.

That said, given the yardage and time remaining, my choice probably would have been to punt it. Of course Kubiak did not, we got the first, and we looked like heroes for it, and I do like that it showed a lot of confidence and guts in both your offense and, had it failed, your defense. I love those things and in some ways it's exciting, win or lose, simply because it wasn't Capersball. Having said that, the cautious numbers guy in me probably would have chosen to punt in that scenario; again, based on my limited knowledge of what had gone on at that point.

The MB is a much better place after a rousing W. No subliterate posts about David Carr sucks and is the cause of global warming, no Kubiak is an *****, no fire so and so. Just a much nicer place to be right now :)

Runner
11-13-2006, 11:17 AM
I was for the call without hindsight and would have been for it even if we had gotten stuffed. See my reasons for that in the recent thread on running the two minute drill at teh end of the first half.

If you want to instill a winning attitude, you have to start treating the players like winners (or at least competitors) at some point.

real
11-13-2006, 11:22 AM
I was for the call without hindsight and would have been for it even if we had gotten stuffed. See my reasons for that in the recent thread on running the two minute drill at teh end of the first half.

If you want to instill a winning attitude, you have to start treating the players like winners (or at least competitors) at some point.

Exactly....I knew Kubes was going to go for it as soon as we didn't make it on third down.....

We were 2-6 at that point.....What'd we have to lose ?

We were half a yard away from a win....He taught the team that if you want it go take it....and i loved it then and I'm especially loving it now...

Malloy
11-13-2006, 11:23 AM
I was for the call without hindsight and would have been for it even if we had gotten stuffed. See my reasons for that in the recent thread on running the two minute drill at teh end of the first half.

If you want to instill a winning attitude, you have to start treating the players like winners (or at least competitors) at some point.

I guess I'm just too much of a wuzz. I would like to say that we should go for it, but... based on Houstons running game this season, I would not be able to bring myself to do anything other than a punt.

Solly, me a baaad fan :)

bah007
11-13-2006, 11:27 AM
I was screaming at the TV to go for it.

I watched the OU-A&M game and this was the exact same situation.

I have more faith that our offense can get 1 yd on 1 play (about a 70% chance) than that our defense can stop the Jags from scoring, especially since the short passing game was killing us in the 4th (about a 80% chance that they dont score a TD, but at least 50% chance that they get the field goal).

Texan_Bill
11-13-2006, 11:27 AM
One word for Kubes and the Texans Offense: Stones!!

TheOgre
11-13-2006, 11:32 AM
Tough decision for me. I thought OU did the right thing against A&M by going for it since their rushing attack is so strong. I viewed their chance of making the first down as about 85-90% (they had a few inches to go). Even if A&M got the ball at the OU 30, there is no guarantee they would have gotten a score against OU's defense. So overall, I'd give OU about an a 90% chance of winning if they went for it. Whereas I thought A&M had roughly a 40% chance of getting a FG if OU punted the ball. It seems like a no-brainer to me, but it is still a gamble because of the media's perception.

As for the Texans, it was a different situation. We had about a half of a yard to go, and our run blocking has been suspect all year long. However, there is one major difference : a FG by Jacksonville would have merely tied it and sent it into OT. I like the guts of the call on the road against a winning team that had the momentum. I also like the fact that we didn't get fancy, but we just went after them. I give us about a 50/50 chance of getting the first. In both cases, I go for it and take control of my own destiny.

Kaiser Toro
11-13-2006, 11:34 AM
I know.. my thought was.. what a time not too have Super Dave in there. :yikes:

That maybe was what Kubiak was thinking as well.

Lucky
11-13-2006, 11:40 AM
When your team is 2-6, what the heck. The team needed the coach's confidence. They finally got it.

gwallaia
11-13-2006, 11:47 AM
Since it worked, it was the right call.

If you had posted this poll before the play, I would have said PUNT.

kcwilson
11-13-2006, 11:55 AM
Since it worked, it was the right call.

If you had posted this poll before the play, I would have said PUNT.

Exactly...

anyone remember the USC/Texas Rose Bowl and people second guessing Pete Carroll for going for it on 4th and 1/2 a yard. You get it, you win, you short it, and you are in trouble because of great field position.

If they don't get it, then the MB would run Kubiak out of town byproclaiming the defense shut them down most of the day.

I liked the play call, especially when you are 2-6 and really have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

I think we pick up a lot of confidence and momentum with that play. First time in a long time where the team executed a play to win, even though it wasn't a td pass late or GW FG.

coachdent
11-13-2006, 12:00 PM
I would not gone for it. But then again, I'm wondering what the hell they are running a QB sneak with Sage when it is third and a full yard? QB sneaks generally are good calls when you come in for a measurement. It was too far for a sneak.

TheOgre
11-13-2006, 12:01 PM
anyone remember the USC/Texas Rose Bowl and people second guessing Pete Carroll for going for it on 4th and 1/2 a yard. You get it, you win, you short it, and you are in trouble because of great field position.

It was the right call by Carroll, but they just didn't execute. White had run all over Texas that night. There was only one other run all night that the Horns had held him for less than 4 yards. If I am Carroll, I go for the win and prevent Vince from seeing the field again. It backfired, but IMO it was still the "right" call for him to make. I (a Horn's fan) wanted them to punt it.

The Pencil Neck
11-13-2006, 12:03 PM
I thought we should have put it in Kris' capable hands and gone for the FG.

:pigfly:

TheOgre
11-13-2006, 12:05 PM
I thought we should have put it in Kris' capable hands and gone for the FG.

:pigfly:

Hehe, yep the 76-77 yard FG seems like a sure thing.

coachdent
11-13-2006, 12:08 PM
I thought we should have put it in Kris' capable hands and gone for the FG.

:pigfly:


The only problem with that is that it would have been an 78 yard field goal my man. We were on our own 41 yard line.

HJam72
11-13-2006, 12:08 PM
Another lesser issue is that it's not like Stanley was gonna bust out with a 50 yd. punt.

Crazyhorse
11-13-2006, 12:32 PM
I thought it was a good call with the time left they could have tied it even without timeouts. What surprised me was the play he ran!!
He ran over Winston in the right tackle slot, and as I have said many times before this kid is a player. His push was so noticable that even the announcers commented on it. With Zach tearing his ACL we will see alot of this kid for the rest of the season and I am expecting good things from what I have seen and know of him.

aj.
11-13-2006, 12:45 PM
If they don't make that 1/2 yard for whatever reason, and end up in OT or losing outright in regulation, the overwhelming majority on this board would be cooking up Kubiak stew today. lol.

I was very surprised they went for it but obviously glad they made it.

I read in some thread the misguided notion that Kubiak is just another Capers. Ummmm no.

real
11-13-2006, 12:50 PM
If they don't make that 1/2 yard for whatever reason, and end up in OT or losing outright in regulation, the overwhelming majority on this board would be cooking up Kubiak stew today. lol.
.

That may be true...but at the same time....

If we had punted the ball away and the Jags drive on us and score or tie the game, Im sure there would have been posters(like myself) that would have been dissapointed that he didn't go for the half a yrd. and end the game right there....

It's a two way street....

I think in that scenario it was best to go for it...
Some think we should have punted....

It goes both ways...

The Pencil Neck
11-13-2006, 12:51 PM
The only problem with that is that it would have been an 78 yard field goal my man. We were on our own 41 yard line.

Jokes aren't half as funny if you have to explain them.

Speedy
11-13-2006, 12:52 PM
With a 2-6 team, you have to play like there's nothing to lose. I mean, what's the worst that could happen? They don't make it, Jags tie or go ahead, and then what....Texans lose another game? Maybe if you're in the playoff hunt you might play it differently, maybe, but when you're a team that has never had a winning season, you've got to take chances when they're there to take.

Had they not made it, I wouldn't have been upset with the call, I would have been upset with the inability of the offense to man up and take something they needed.

The best part about that play, is that they learned how to WIN a football game, instead of hoping to not lose.

aj.
11-13-2006, 12:56 PM
It's a two way street....

...

...and my thought suggests a two way street - with four lanes -- but only one being contraflow.

Even for those who say they were cool with going for it, 'what the hell,' 'what do we have to lose,' etc., supporting the decision after the fact is made a lot easier in hindsight because the decision turned out to be the right one. I have a feeling the tone in here and on talk radio wouldn't be overwhelmingly supportive had it failed. There would be supporters, yes, but I think they would be in the minority.

I love the rationale Kubiak used for going for it. It's those things that can turn team's fortunes...

Kaiser Toro
11-13-2006, 12:56 PM
With a 2-6 team, you have to play like there's nothing to lose. I mean, what's the worst that could happen? They don't make it, Jags tie or go ahead, and then what....Texans lose another game? Maybe if you're in the playoff hunt you might play it differently, maybe, but when you're a team that has never had a winning season, you've got to take chances when they're there to take.

Had they not made it, I wouldn't have been upset with the call, I would have been upset with the inability of the offense to man up and take something they needed.

The best part about that play, is that they learned how to WIN a football game, instead of hoping to not lose.

Exactly. Kubiak made the right call even if we did not make it in my opinion. He was basically telling both sides of the ball this is not about the staff or the past year's results, this is about you 53 players coming to together to get this win. If the offense did not make it, it would have been up to the defense. All 53 players won that game due to their contributions.

Lucky
11-13-2006, 01:04 PM
I read in some thread the misguided notion that Kubiak is just another Capers. Ummmm no.
Even Capers had a moment of daring, at the end of the Jags game in '03. Many thought it was a sign of things to come. They were wrong.

We will see if this is the real Kubiak or not in the coming weeks (and years). He's sent a lot of mixed signals thus far. I think this will be the turning point for the mutual respect between the coach and the team. But, I've been wrong before.

Texanfan4ever
11-13-2006, 01:09 PM
THey are the ones that feel the "flow" down there on the field, and even though at that point we had lost some flow, and it was starting to look scary, they had been making plays all day. I was for it, but I was less secure with Sage in there, not because he isn't any good, but he was just thrown in there in the 4th quarter, and really didn't have any "flow" going.

Thank God it worked. That's all I have to say about that.

Don't ya'll feel like they are seriously all coming together? It is exciting. Good things to come. :marionaner:

aj.
11-13-2006, 01:11 PM
I think Capers had a couple moments of daring during his tenure here, but he would have never gone for it yesterday under those circumstances. The differences in offensive scheme are night and day and once we get a RB, a nasty C, and settle the T position down a bit, I think we will see just how different Kubiak and Capers are from the decision making standpoint.

real
11-13-2006, 01:12 PM
I have a feeling the tone in here and on talk radio wouldn't be overwhelmingly supportive had it failed. There would be supporters, yes, but I think they would be in the minority.


Im sure there were more people who wanted to punt than for us to go for it so...I would guess so....

IMO, if you thought it was the wrong call you still shouldn't be happy with it....You should still think Kubiak made the wrong move and you should question his decision making...If you had to go back and do it again you should still want to punt....

Exactly. Kubiak made the right call even if we did not make it in my opinion.

That's what I'm saying...Posters keep saying that the same people who are praising the call now would have been mad if we had went for it and not gotten it...ummm....no...

People would have been mad...but those would have been the people that wanted him to punt it in the first place...

I wouldn't have been mad regardless because I wanted him to go for it as soon as I saw we were short...So no.... I wouldn't have been mad if we didn't make it either...I'd have still thought it was a good call that just didn't work out...and whoever wanted us to punt should still think it's a bad call that happened to work out.....

Point: Just because we made it or didn't make it can't/shouldn't change your opinion of the call...

Houston_Fanatic
11-13-2006, 01:17 PM
Don't ya'll feel like they are seriously all coming together? It is exciting. Good things to come. :marionaner:

YES!

aj.
11-13-2006, 01:17 PM
IMO, if you thought it was the wrong call you still shouldn't be happy with it....You should still think Kubiak made the wrong move and you should question his decision making...If you had to go back and do it again you should still want to punt....

...

I never said it was the wrong call .......I was making an observation on message board dynamics...

real
11-13-2006, 01:19 PM
I never said it was the wrong call .......I was making an observation on message board dynamics...

I know...my comments weren't neccessarily aimed at you...I was just quoting you because of the relevance it had to the point I was making....

Osso
11-13-2006, 02:12 PM
I scream at the tv most of the game and those damn coaches never listen to me.....then all of a sudden with 2 minutes left on 4th and 6 inches they did!!!!

:francis: :francis: :francis: :francis:

The bar I was in had 300 people watching games and I was the only one watching the Texans.....The whole crowd stopped and stared at me then a few seconds later they all cheered. It was great.