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NATHANHALE
11-11-2006, 08:39 AM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/4327070.html

kubiak's take on the 'two minute drill'....kinda sad, IMO...

Marcus
11-11-2006, 09:46 AM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/4327070.html

kubiak's take on the 'two minute drill'....kinda sad, IMO...
Kinda sad?? Well, IMO ... I thought his explanations were pretty reasonable, considering how the team responds in the 2nd half.

I guess it's pretty easy to tell him to "grow a pair", and then easily crucify him when it doesn't turn out right.

Osso
11-11-2006, 09:48 AM
yes it's sad....:francis:

Vinny
11-11-2006, 09:56 AM
he is basically stating that our offense isn't very good and he can't trust it right now. So much for passer rating being a stat worth anything.

Porky
11-11-2006, 09:56 AM
Not sure why anyone would crucify him for doing what 31 other head coaches would do in the same situation, but whatever floats your boat.

QB75
11-11-2006, 10:23 AM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/4327070.html

kubiak's take on the 'two minute drill'....kinda sad, IMO...

Not really. It makes perfect sense if you understand the game.

Kaiser Toro
11-11-2006, 10:25 AM
Scary stuff, but I am aghast that Kubiak only got this during the season and could not see it in his film work before he took the job. We cannot afford to sign players that cannot play NFL football.

Success in the second half of the season is dependent upon the defense's development.

Wolf
11-11-2006, 10:36 AM
considering where this offense has been the last few years, we seem light years ahead (not where we need to be,but )

2002 was the "two minute" drill for 4 quarters

TexanSam
11-11-2006, 10:38 AM
Not sure why anyone would crucify him for doing what 31 other head coaches would do in the same situation, but whatever floats your boat.

I think most other head coaches would try and get some points on the board if there's still 2 minutes left on the clock before halftime. His explanations are reasonable but I still don't agree with him. At least try throwing the ball down field some.

NATHANHALE
11-11-2006, 10:56 AM
So, we want to go into the half on a high note induced-not by us scoring-but by not letting the opposition score? OK. What's our benefit to start the 2ND half by not 'upsetting' fragile minds? Scoring points? Us, no. Them, yes.

Actually, what is Kubiak's choice/outlook with players that are not 'tough' mentally? IMO, it depends on whether he thinks those players are here for the 'long haul.' My point here is why 'coddle' down the offense for players he does not intend to keep? Saying this, I'm sure we're talking about 'permanent' players.

JMO, but I'm missing something here. We are talking about highly skilled/trained athletes that are paid large sums of money to do their jobs on this team and Kubiak feels the need to build his team around 'not hurting their feelings.' Does this happen in the 'real' world?

Finally, how will he know when it's OK to try to win without upsetting a player? This 'thinking' is all new to me, so I'd appreciate it if someone can explain it to me---too, is this really common in the NFL?...thanks:confused: :confused:

NATHANHALE
11-11-2006, 10:58 AM
Not really. It makes perfect sense if you understand the game.


How does it make perfect sense?

Osso
11-11-2006, 11:35 AM
There is no explanation. It depends on your guts and when it comes to the 2 minute we don't have any.

I really like most of the things kubiak is bringing us, but this isn't one of them.

:rant:

Sad

HJam72
11-11-2006, 11:44 AM
Well, we can't blame Corey Bradford anymore. It is a little upsetting to hear that Carr is definitely our guy, our linemen are not quite as bad at pass blocking anymore, we have good receivers on the field, but we can't trust (David) the team to run two minute drills. I sure hope there really is going to be a time when he can do that.

Vinny
11-11-2006, 11:48 AM
How does it make perfect sense?Football is a strategy game....that's why (the same reason teams punt too). If you don't trust your QB, you shouldn't put him out there to screw up the entire game for the others. When Kubiak said that Carr still had a long way to go, I don't think he was joking with us.

dtran04
11-11-2006, 11:50 AM
Defense in the 2 minute drill has been pretty bad too. They fall into the prevent and get picked apart. Overall, team has been awful in those situations.

Marcus
11-11-2006, 11:54 AM
So, we want to go into the half on a high note induced-not by us scoring-but by not letting the opposition score? OK. What's our benefit to start the 2ND half by not 'upsetting' fragile minds? Scoring points? Us, no. Them, yes.

Actually, what is Kubiak's choice/outlook with players that are not 'tough' mentally? IMO, it depends on whether he thinks those players are here for the 'long haul.' My point here is why 'coddle' down the offense for players he does not intend to keep? Saying this, I'm sure we're talking about 'permanent' players.

JMO, but I'm missing something here. We are talking about highly skilled/trained athletes that are paid large sums of money to do their jobs on this team and Kubiak feels the need to build his team around 'not hurting their feelings.' Does this happen in the 'real' world?

Finally, how will he know when it's OK to try to win without upsetting a player? This 'thinking' is all new to me, so I'd appreciate it if someone can explain it to me---too, is this really common in the NFL?...thanks:confused: :confused:
I think your making it more complicated than it is. How much a player gets paid is not going have any effect on how upbeat or dejected he gets during the course of a game. The player might be a professional, but he is human, not a machine.

This is a losing football team, with reputation of losing. He's just trying to do his best to keep his team from getting a "here we go again" idea planted in their minds during halftime. I mean, this team does not do very well starting out in the 3rd quarter, so again, I think his explanations are not unreasonable.

TheCD
11-11-2006, 12:26 PM
I think most other head coaches would try and get some points on the board if there's still 2 minutes left on the clock before halftime. His explanations are reasonable but I still don't agree with him. At least try throwing the ball down field some.


From what I gathered out of the article, what Kubiak meant in saying he wanted the offense to do something before he let them open up the fast-paced plays is that he wanted them to do something on that drive in order to show they wouldn't be prone to errors in those situations. In the Giants game, while I didn't like how we ended the first half, I do understand his mindset. We had held our own in the first half and and the Giants have the ability to score fast if need-be, so Kubiak didn't want them to get that opporunity. He still should have gone for it, though.

If what I gathered is correct, it makes sense to me: Make your guys earn their chances, and weed out the guys who don't want to fight hard enough. If you aren't playing hard within 2 minutes of a half, with a score of 7-3, against a team who was supposed to walk all over you, you don't deserve to play

sleepwalker
11-11-2006, 12:32 PM
We are getting better. This isnt Xbox Madden. If you have a banged up talentless OL out on the field and a QB that has turned the ball over 60 times in 60something games then it might be a good idea to control the clock and keep the other team from running their 2 min drill...Especially if we get the ball back to start the 3rd quarter.

Half of you would love to see a 3 and out throwing down the field using only 20 seconds off the clock...Or worse, turning the ball over.

This team will get better and you'll get your 2 min drill......60 minutes in a game and we are getting mad about 4 minutes.

Kaiser Toro
11-11-2006, 12:33 PM
Seemingly Kubiak is at a crossroads, does he:
1 - Get more weapons for Carr
2 - Show continued patience for a 4.5 year vet that makes 7.2 million dollars
3 - Get the Texans an NFL QB who can run a two minute drill.

Lucky
11-11-2006, 12:54 PM
he is basically stating that our offense isn't very good and he can't trust it right now. So much for passer rating being a stat worth anything.
He was actually saying that our defense hasn't responded to late 1st half drives:
After watching his defense open the season by surrendering 17 points combined in the final seconds of the first half to Philadelphia, Indianapolis and Washington, Kubiak said he decided his team needs to take something positive into the locker room.

So when the Texans took the ball with 1:54 left in the half against the Dolphins on Oct. 1, they all but took a knee three times in hopes of getting to the locker room without an opponent posting a late score.

He may not trust the offense or the defense, but Kubiak needs to get over it or he'll turn into Dom Capers. If the coach won't show confidence in the players, how are the players going to develop confidence?

Osso
11-11-2006, 01:12 PM
Half of you would love to see a 3 and out throwing down the field using only 20 seconds off the clock...Or worse, turning the ball over.



YES!!! at least die trying.

Most of us know this year is about rebuilding a ****ty shed into a state of the art barn. You can't use rusty nails and duct tape to do it. Take a frikn chance man. Bow up. If it's 3 and out so be it. If we turn it over, so what, we are doing that 3 times a game on average anyway.

trutexan02
11-11-2006, 01:15 PM
From what I gathered out of the article, what Kubiak meant in saying he wanted the offense to do something before he let them open up the fast-paced plays is that he wanted them to do something on that drive in order to show they wouldn't be prone to errors in those situations. In the Giants game, while I didn't like how we ended the first half, I do understand his mindset. We had held our own in the first half and and the Giants have the ability to score fast if need-be, so Kubiak didn't want them to get that opporunity. He still should have gone for it, though.

If what I gathered is correct, it makes sense to me: Make your guys earn their chances, and weed out the guys who don't want to fight hard enough. If you aren't playing hard within 2 minutes of a half, with a score of 7-3, against a team who was supposed to walk all over you, you don't deserve to play
I agree I don't think he was talking about lack of execution for the season but on that drive alone. The Two minute drill is intended to be a fast paced chunk yardage offensive output. When we don't get any thing on first or second down he only wants to burn time and punt one deep. Can't blame him for that.
I think I saw some one say this isn't MADDEN. I'd say they are right.

Semi related topic: I HATE THE PREVENT DEFENSE . THE SINGLE REASON THE OILER LOST TO BUFFALO WAY BACK WHEN... any coach who uses it should be kealhalled. KUBES INCLUDED

Vinny
11-11-2006, 01:17 PM
Semi related topic: I HATE THE PREVENT DEFENSE . THE SINGLE REASON THE OILER LOST TO BUFFALO WAY BACK WHEN... any coach who uses it should be kealhalled. KUBES INCLUDEDactually it was the inability to run the ball and play with a lead. The team couldn't run the ball and kill the clock. They passed their way into the lead and passed their way back out of it. I hated the RnS for the pro game. Too one-dimensional since you have to have a power game in the red zone if you want to win in the NFL...sure, you can rack up some stats with the RnS (I'm the anti-stat guy it seems)...but the offense bogs down when the field shortens and it's nearly impossible to manage the clock with a passing attack.

Vinny
11-11-2006, 01:22 PM
He was actually saying that our defense hasn't responded to late 1st half drives:


He may not trust the offense or the defense, but Kubiak needs to get over it or he'll turn into Dom Capers. If the coach won't show confidence in the players, how are the players going to develop confidence?sure he mentions the defense - because they sucked in a historically bad sense early in the year...but if you think that in 5 years, not letting the offense open up in the 2 min drill over and over is a defensive issue...I don't know what to tell you.

ArlingtonTexan
11-11-2006, 02:59 PM
Seemingly Kubiak is at a crossroads, does he:
1 - Get more weapons for Carr
2 - Show continued patience for a 4.5 year vet that makes 7.2 million dollars
3 - Get the Texans an NFL QB who can run a two minute drill.


1- This is the easy one. the Texans need more weapons, no matter what you think of 2 and 3.
2- How much of his job (as defined by ownership) is to do exactly this?
3- Easier to say than it sounds. For as much as I think Carr is an average starter in this league, he is a starting calibur player. My thought is that unless you commit to developing a younger QB (see 2 IMO) whoever you get will be Carr with different warts. If nothing else, the current offense hides Carr's warts as well as any can. The best news is that you can win with an average starter, but you need to do 1 and going off this current KT board develop a well-above average defense.

NATHANHALE
11-11-2006, 03:02 PM
"60 minutes in a game and we are getting mad about 4 minutes."


Unfortunately, we're in our 5th yr of this type of play calling plus hearing from the HC that 'more' of his kinds of players are needed BEFORE the offense can be 'opened' up...obviously, both coaches believe 'everything' has to be in place before they can even 'try'....

Here's hoping we reach that 'magical' moment sometime in the 'near' future, where we can run an NFL basic/every team does it '2 minute' drill...

Runner
11-11-2006, 03:54 PM
Here is my opinion. The players aren't robots. Kubiak shows them by his actions and tells them in the newspaper (and probably in meetings) that he doesn't trust them to execute a two minute drill, which is a staple of almost every offense in the NFL and college. To me, that has to hurt the players' "fragile egos" more than trying and failing. I bet most if not all of the players want to go for it from the 20 with two minutes and two timeouts left. Those that don't might have that losing attitude we are worrying about eradicating.

We are losing anyway - I don't know what we are gaining, unless "keeping it close" is still a goal.

tsip
11-11-2006, 04:04 PM
We've been changing our offense for 4+ years to try and find schemes Carr can do and do with consistency, and this scenario continues. This is not a year we are expected to win, as we install 'everything' new, so why not call the plays that are needed and see what happens?

It's past time to see if Carr is the 'man,' and Kubiak promised to find this out--eliminating plays that Carr struggles with IMO is not the answer. Carr needs to be the one 'stepping up' and not the HC 'stepping down' the offense to compensate for Carr's 'whatever.'

...just when is Carr expected to be able to handle a 2 minute drill, for example? Try it-so what if he screws up-let him learn what he did wrong and do better next time. JMO, but Carr's time must be now, not wasting any more time to find out if he can lead us to the 'promise land.':cowboy1: :deadhorse :brickwall

Dime
11-11-2006, 05:58 PM
I guess i dont get it.. Carr has problems when he forces the football. By passing on a two minute drill, he effectively is passing Carr making a forced and possibility a bonehead throw which would probably give points to the other team. What is not clear about that. Kub is trying to build confidence in the team and Carr by making smart decisions and plays. After that happens, then it will be working with the two minute drill. Until then, he is wanting to elimiate the bonehead plays that mentally rock a team during a game. It makes prefect sense to me.. Why dont you all (there are some that do here)?

ArlingtonTexan
11-11-2006, 07:07 PM
I guess i dont get it.. Carr has problems when he forces the football. By passing on a two minute drill, he effectively is passing Carr making a forced and possibility a bonehead throw which would probably give points to the other team. What is not clear about that. Kub is trying to build confidence in the team and Carr by making smart decisions and plays. After that happens, then it will be working with the two minute drill. Until then, he is wanting to elimiate the bonehead plays that mentally rock a team during a game. It makes prefect sense to me.. Why dont you all (there are some that do here)?

Many of the people understand what Kubiak is doing , but disagree because it is normally counter to trying to win the game in hand.

tsip
11-11-2006, 07:33 PM
"Until then"


Our watch words--other teams play to win, while we play 'until then'--4+ yrs and counting....and,sadly--as we know all too well--there is no guarantee of when 'until then' will happen, if at all...:brickwall :pigfly: :deadhorse

Porky
11-11-2006, 07:44 PM
1- This is the easy one. the Texans need more weapons, no matter what you think of 2 and 3.
2- How much of his job (as defined by ownership) is to do exactly this?
3- Easier to say than it sounds. For as much as I think Carr is an average starter in this league, he is a starting calibur player. My thought is that unless you commit to developing a younger QB (see 2 IMO) whoever you get will be Carr with different warts. If nothing else, the current offense hides Carr's warts as well as any can. The best news is that you can win with an average starter, but you need to do 1 and going off this current KT board develop a well-above average defense.

I think we disagree that Carr is a starting calibur player, but let me give you that one. I think Damon Huard, Tony Romo, Tom Brady, Kurt Warner and a host of others were behind one of your self decribed average starters. All of them turned out to be better than the starter. Until someone gave them a chance, they were also thought of as backups. Can someone please explain this mis-guided notion that because Carr is the starter, that our second stringer can't possibly be the better QB?

Kaiser Toro
11-11-2006, 07:51 PM
1- This is the easy one. the Texans need more weapons, no matter what you think of 2 and 3.
2- How much of his job (as defined by ownership) is to do exactly this?
3- Easier to say than it sounds. For as much as I think Carr is an average starter in this league, he is a starting calibur player. My thought is that unless you commit to developing a younger QB (see 2 IMO) whoever you get will be Carr with different warts. If nothing else, the current offense hides Carr's warts as well as any can. The best news is that you can win with an average starter, but you need to do 1 and going off this current KT board develop a well-above average defense.

Normally I agree with your takes and will continue to follow suit via piggybacking on your post.

Our mistake was extending him at that dollar amount. Carr is an average starter in this league yet we over compensate.

disaacks3
11-11-2006, 08:00 PM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/4327070.html

kubiak's take on the 'two minute drill'....kinda sad, IMO...
Unfortunately, I agree...and I REALLY like Kubiak!

Not sure why anyone would crucify him for doing what 31 other head coaches would do in the same situation, but whatever floats your boat. Bingo. We have a winner. We went into "prevent offense" and STILL gave up a score.

I think most other head coaches would try and get some points on the board if there's still 2 minutes left on the clock before halftime. His explanations are reasonable but I still don't agree with him. At least try throwing the ball down field some. It doesn't even have to be 100% pass-oriented, but a run "up the gut" was very telling of how hard we were trying in the last 2:00.

Defense in the 2 minute drill has been pretty bad too. They fall into the prevent and get picked apart. Overall, team has been awful in those situations. That's why his reasoning looks even WORSE. At least TRY to keep the Defense off the field for the last 2:00.

If the coach won't show confidence in the players, how are the players going to develop confidence? Exactly! Ever wonder why Carr doesn't look like he's "in a hurry" in these situations? Why should he be in a hurry on a between-the-tackles handoff?

...from the article With his team trailing 7-3 with 1:46 left before the half in Sunday's game against the Giants, Kubiak took the safe approach.

The Texans ran a draw to Wali Lundy for 2 yards and let the clock run down before running a slip screen to Andre Johnson, allowing more time to tick off the clock.

After another inside run, they punted with only 16 seconds left.

"We want to be aggressive in those situations, but you've got to make the play to get you going so that you can be aggressive in those situations," Kubiak said. "There's no reason why we can't go get points right there, but after first and second down, I thought the best thing we could do was make sure we left them about 10 seconds on the clock." Kubes, lemme get this straight.... YOU call two hopelessly conservative calls and because the Offense didn't turn those into highlight-reel gems, THEN you decided to just run clock? Riiiiiight! :ok:

Texans_Chick
11-11-2006, 08:04 PM
I think people are reading too much into this article. Or at least those who want to put this all on Carr.

Maybe I missed it in the article, but I don't see where Kubiak is dogging Carr specifically. Carr runs the offense, but he ain't the only participant.

Marcus
11-11-2006, 08:08 PM
Can someone please explain this mis-guided notion that because Carr is the starter, that our second stringer can't possibly be the better QB?
Even if he is, Carr remains the starter because he make a ton of money. Sucks, but that's the way it is.

Marcus
11-11-2006, 08:14 PM
I think people are reading too much into this article. Or at least those who want to put this all on Carr.

Maybe I missed it in the article, but I don't see where Kubiak is dogging Carr specifically. Carr runs the offense, but he ain't the only participant.
Oh, trust me TC ... this thread is all about Carr.

Porky
11-11-2006, 08:21 PM
I think people are reading too much into this article. Or at least those who want to put this all on Carr.

Maybe I missed it in the article, but I don't see where Kubiak is dogging Carr specifically. Carr runs the offense, but he ain't the only participant.

So, you are saying the left guard is not up to snuff, so Kubes can't run the 2 minute drill? Let's bring a little reality into the discussion, shall we? In order to develop the correct outcome, one must define the problem correctly. This is like the blue elephant in the room at a party that everyone can see, but nobody wants to discuss for fear of offending the host. Kubes can see the elephant, but wants to pretend it doesn't exist.

thunderkyss
11-11-2006, 08:30 PM
I think we disagree that Carr is a starting calibur player, but let me give you that one. I think Damon Huard, Tony Romo, Tom Brady, Kurt Warner and a host of others were behind one of your self decribed average starters. All of them turned out to be better than the starter. Until someone gave them a chance, they were also thought of as backups. Can someone please explain this mis-guided notion that because Carr is the starter, that our second stringer can't possibly be the better QB?

Do you reeeaaaallllyyyy think Huard is better than Green??

Maybe you should take his name out, and put in Garrard.



:ok:

Runner
11-11-2006, 08:30 PM
I think people are reading too much into this article. Or at least those who want to put this all on Carr.

Maybe I missed it in the article, but I don't see where Kubiak is dogging Carr specifically. Carr runs the offense, but he ain't the only participant.

I agree that it isn't all about Carr. He is telling just about every member of the offense and defense that they and/or their teammates aren't to be trusted to taking the risk of running a two minute drill, even though every other team in the league runs them routinely.

Kaiser Toro
11-11-2006, 08:38 PM
Offense is supposed to be offensive. Kubiak knows football, he also knows that an offense can chew up the clock to keep his defense off the field. If the offensive guru, and I do think he is one, does not have faith in his offense I can assure you that it is not because of his playbook and his experience in viewing that playbook applied. Carr was one of many problems in the past based upon his salary cap impact and now is one of less problems based upon his salary cap impact.

ArlingtonTexan
11-11-2006, 09:12 PM
Normally I agree with your takes and will continue to follow suit via piggybacking on your post.

Our mistake was extending him at that dollar amount. Carr is an average starter in this league yet we over compensate.

I agree with your take concerning extending his contract and probably have stated the same sometime or another.

ArlingtonTexan
11-11-2006, 09:34 PM
I think we disagree that Carr is a starting calibur player, but let me give you that one. I think Damon Huard, Tony Romo, Tom Brady, Kurt Warner and a host of others were behind one of your self decribed average starters. All of them turned out to be better than the starter. Until someone gave them a chance, they were also thought of as backups. Can someone please explain this mis-guided notion that because Carr is the starter, that our second stringer can't possibly be the better QB?

IMO, once you get pass the top 8-12 guys in the NFL, you have a bunch of guys who teams ask to not screw up the ball game. I believe Carr can do that (especially in the current system). This is why I pointed out that if you increase the weapons and have well above average defense, you can win with average QB. There are plenty of guys in the NFL, maybe even that unnamed back-up here, who can be that type of QB. My general problem with the Carr is not that he is totally worthless, but for what he has shown on the field, the Texans have too much time and money invested in the hope that he is something more than what he has displayed.

Sidenote: Some irony in the fact the 4 QBs you listed they have taken the place only two QBs, Trent Green and Drew Bledsoe. Probably does mean anything either way, just an observation.

Ibar_Harry
11-11-2006, 10:09 PM
This to me speaks volumes about Kubiak. I know some of you will take issue with me, but I would like to add some additional facts to this. In one of the Chronicle articles Kubiak mentioned he does not want his QB to audible. Carr has a very limited set of Checks. He believes the coach is to call the play and the team is to run it.

Now that speaks again of being predictable in my book. It also says only he knows what will work regardless of what the defense is showing. Isn't that heart warming and comfortible for the defense if they know by a tell what you are doing. They can be assured that if they call the correct defense you are dead meat, because the Texans are not going to change the play.

This goes along with the two minute drill, because many coaches would consider a deep pass the same as a punt if its intercepted. However, we don't really try to go long all that often. Carr does have an arm and I would rather take a shot in the situation we were in with NY, because they were going to get the ball to start the 2nd half. We could not afford to give up opportunities particularly when they are few and far between. That was what Kubiak said about the 2nd half against the NYG. He knew their running game was to control the clock and limit our opportunities.

When you look at the whole picture I still say Kubiak is blowing smoke and I don't think he is the best coach for this team. He is another Capers and that is all there is to it. He is incapable of being flexible. So be it, but don't expect anything other than what you are seeing.

As an added note this is why Carr is playing. Kubiak says he loves teaching Carr and he says he has a lot of talent. Some of you wonder why Sage is not starting and the answer is the same stuborness dictates staying with Carr. At least that is the take of some of you, but there certainly is an element of truth to that. I would say Kubiak is still not going to Carr's strengths, but that is my take on the situation.

We may win a game here or there, but don't expect too much because we will not do a whole lot until and if we get a running game that suits Kubiak. That is probably at least a year or so away. Kubiak is better than Capers, but I really don't think that much better. He is better at helping Carr, but then Kubiak's statements kind of indicate a big part of Carr's problem is really what he has been taught to do. Kind of a way of saying the previous staff didn't know what they were doing.

Oh, well take your shots and enjoy the game tomorrow. We seem to do well against the Jags. I hope we have a good game. It would be nice for the guys to win this one.

Marcus
11-11-2006, 11:11 PM
When you look at the whole picture I still say Kubiak is blowing smoke and I don't think he is the best coach for this team. He is another Capers and that is all there is to it. He is incapable of being flexible. So be it, but don't expect anything other than what you are seeing.


:rolleyes: Jesus!

eriadoc
11-11-2006, 11:28 PM
Football is a strategy game....that's why (the same reason teams punt too). If you don't trust your QB, you shouldn't put him out there to screw up the entire game for the others. When Kubiak said that Carr still had a long way to go, I don't think he was joking with us.

Yeah, I definitely think it's all Carr's fault.

Ibar_Harry
11-11-2006, 11:29 PM
:rolleyes: Jesus!

Here is another quote by P King from Texas Chick Article.

"HoustonProFootball.com has this nice preview of the Houston-JAX game that is worth a read.
The only thing I would add to it is that the Texans special teams has been very disappointing the last couple of games. Usually, they out perform the rest of the team, but lately they have been absolutely loss contributing.
In previous seasons, special teams coach Joe Marciano usually has had a designated guy to be a returner, but Gary Kubiak this year has emphasized that he wants a returner that can contribute on other parts of the team. At this point, they are just looking for consistency and picked up Dexter Wynn who was released from the Eagles a couple of weeks ago. He can return both punts and kickoffs, and has played backup defensive back."

Some more evidence of how Kubiak is taking away what the Team does well and having an adverse affect. I keep saying Kubiak is a stuborn man and not what you think he is................

Texans_Chick
11-11-2006, 11:31 PM
So, you are saying the left guard is not up to snuff, so Kubes can't run the 2 minute drill? Let's bring a little reality into the discussion, shall we? In order to develop the correct outcome, one must define the problem correctly. This is like the blue elephant in the room at a party that everyone can see, but nobody wants to discuss for fear of offending the host. Kubes can see the elephant, but wants to pretend it doesn't exist.

No.

What I am saying is that he HAS trusted the offense at the end of the half before, and the offense hasn't lived up to that trust.

And after cratering at the end of the half, the team is so fragile it can barely play the rest of the game--both offense and defense.

Until the team starts showing more consistency, and less gooning out in face of setbacks, I don't blame him for not having confidence in an offense that hasn't deserved that confidence at the end of the half.

Kubiak gives Carr and the rest of the offense more responsibility after they prove that they deserve it. They have only proved that they are irresponsible at the half, and in a close game, Kubiak isn't gonna open the playbook.

That is why Kubiak started to let Carr throw into double coverage to Andre. Because Kubiak believed that Carr and AJ deserved that through what they have shown on the field. He's been offered that confidence of throwing into double coverage to Andre but not the keys to the 2 minute drill.

Runner
11-12-2006, 12:26 AM
Well Ibar, I don't think Kubiak is as bad as you make him out to be, I do think he does have some faults that are adversely affecting the team. I am not in the camp that thinks he is perfect. He is a rookie head coach that needs to be growing this season as well. He does need to evaluate his own performance and adjust accordingly over time. He's has more authority here than he's had before, and that would allow the effects of stubborness (for lack of a better term) to lead to less than ideal decisions.

tsip
11-12-2006, 02:41 AM
"Until the team starts showing more consistency, and less gooning out in face of setbacks, I don't blame him for not having confidence in an offense that hasn't deserved that confidence at the end of the half."

JMO, but this is a cop-out. Instead of the team raising their level of play, we 'dumb down' everything until they can handle 'simplified' schemes/plays. We're playing at a level now that mirrors our first year of existence.

What kind of message is being sent to the players that sub standard play will result in less responsiblity, less expectations? IMO, the individuals that are not getting desired results should be identified and replaced. This was another Kubiak promise.

Team. How many posters have defended the notion that one player can't do it by himself, yet we let individuals dictate the way the plays are or are not run. What does Kubiak do if this same situation exists the rest of the year?...just not run a 2 minute drill?

I'm sorry--maybe it's just me--but for 4+ years, we haven't done 'certain' plays/schemes on the field because a) they didn't work the first time we tried them or b) we didn't have the right players or-now- c) someone will get their feelings hurt.............is the NFL not part of the 'real' world?...geeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

thunderkyss
11-12-2006, 09:26 AM
This to me speaks volumes about Kubiak. I know some of you will take issue with me, but I would like to add some additional facts to this. In one of the Chronicle articles Kubiak mentioned he does not want his QB to audible. Carr has a very limited set of Checks. He believes the coach is to call the play and the team is to run it.

It would help your argument if Denver wasn't so successfull behind Gary Kubiak. I don't know if Denver audibles at all, but I have to believe they do. Either way, I find it peculiar that we are "lucky" enough to find three offensive gurus(using the term very lightly here) that would not allow our QB to audible.

I find it exceptionally odd, that Sage was allowed to audible in the preseason. But all of a sudden in the regular season audibles are completely gone from the playbook.

Just so there is no misconception of what I'm trying to say here. In my mind, this is further evidence that talent isn't what is holding David Carr back.


Now that speaks again of being predictable in my book. It also says only he knows what will work regardless of what the defense is showing. Isn't that heart warming and comfortible for the defense if they know by a tell what you are doing. They can be assured that if they call the correct defense you are dead meat, because the Texans are not going to change the play.

There is more to offensive football than calling audibles. There should be an out in every play.... the RB in the flats for example.... and every reciever should be able to alter their route somewhat, especially in the case of a blitz. When you here about other teams QB & WR (Manning/Harrison) being on the same page, they don't have to call an audible. If they both recognize the blitz, and the coverage, they can still beat the right defensive call.

This goes along with the two minute drill, because many coaches would consider a deep pass the same as a punt if its intercepted. However, we don't really try to go long all that often.

Stop thinking that if David throws a short pass, that the play was designed to go underneath. Even if it's Andre crossing the field underneath the LBs. Remember, we wanted Eric Moulds(or David Givens) to ease the pressure on AJ, so we can get more one on one coverages. I'm not saying everytime AJ comes underneath, that Eric is maned up & open. But there were several plays where Andre was maned up, or Eric was maned up, and David threw to the wide open guy underneath.

Think about the Titans game, and David's Int. There were two recievers on that play, one guy was covered by 4 Titans, Where was the other reciever??

When you look at the whole picture I still say Kubiak is blowing smoke....

He's definitely blowing smoke. Unless David plays better, expect it to get even more asinine, and resemble Capers Ball even more. GK is trying to protect his QB from all the stuff that is being said on this board, and all the booing at home.

As an added note this is why Carr is playing. Kubiak says he loves teaching Carr and he says he has a lot of talent. Some of you wonder why Sage is not starting and the answer is the same stuborness dictates staying with Carr. At least that is the take of some of you, but there certainly is an element of truth to that. I would say Kubiak is still not going to Carr's strengths, but that is my take on the situation.

I don't believe it's about stubborness... I believe this season isn't about winning, and more about teaching this team to learn how to play. It's very similar to the Tennessee situation(Go Baltimore). they don't care about winning.... well, it isn't their top priority. If it were, they'd have found a way to keep McNair..... but that would put Vince on the Bench for 2 years minimum. By getting rid of Steve, they moved up the Vince Time table by at least one year.

We may win a game here or there, but don't expect too much because we will not do a whole lot until and if we get a running game that suits Kubiak. That is probably at least a year or so away. Kubiak is better than Capers, but I really don't think that much better. He is better at helping Carr, but then Kubiak's statements kind of indicate a big part of Carr's problem is really what he has been taught to do. Kind of a way of saying the previous staff didn't know what they were doing.

Nobody teaches a QB to throw the underneath pass 99.99% of the time.

But you are right. Our running game is a bigger problem than David Carr is right now. If we can get that to work like it is supposed to, then we can expect to see Carr throwing to the wide Open Reciever down the field.

So there is no misconception.... right here, I am saying with a running game, Carr can "look like" a superstar...... I (me personally) don't think he is the kind of QB that can open up your running game. But that's ok. nothing wrong with that.

Oh, well take your shots and enjoy the game tomorrow. We seem to do well against the Jags. I hope we have a good game. It would be nice for the guys to win this one.

This game is about defense.......... again.

Porky
11-12-2006, 09:38 AM
No.

What I am saying is that he HAS trusted the offense at the end of the half before, and the offense hasn't lived up to that trust.

And after cratering at the end of the half, the team is so fragile it can barely play the rest of the game--both offense and defense.

Until the team starts showing more consistency, and less gooning out in face of setbacks, I don't blame him for not having confidence in an offense that hasn't deserved that confidence at the end of the half.

Kubiak gives Carr and the rest of the offense more responsibility after they prove that they deserve it. They have only proved that they are irresponsible at the half, and in a close game, Kubiak isn't gonna open the playbook.

That is why Kubiak started to let Carr throw into double coverage to Andre. Because Kubiak believed that Carr and AJ deserved that through what they have shown on the field. He's been offered that confidence of throwing into double coverage to Andre but not the keys to the 2 minute drill.


I agree with Tsip. I like you so this isn't personal, but I think this is a croc. Okay, first when exactly has Kubiak gone for it in a two minute drill? I mean balls to the wall we are trying to score? Not some namby pamby let's run a draw and hope we spring it for 20 and then we might actually try something. I don't remember, so please point when he has trusted the offense at the end of the first half.

Secondly, I always thought if you had a weakness the best way to get better was to keep doing it. Do you think a carperter is going to build his best house on his first attempt, or the 20th house that he builds. Don't you think that each time he builds one, he has learned techniques to improve the quality of the structure as well as maybe finding some techinques to build it faster so that his 20th house was built more quickly, but also more soundly? I think so.

So, here is the dilemma as I see it. To me, it's as obvious as the nose on your face that Kubes does not trust Carr to run a 2 minute drill. As I see it, that means one of two things. Let him run it as often as possible, and let him be the carpenter in my example above. Let him take his lumps, and see if he can improve over time. I don't understand how someone can improve a weak area without performing said weak area. It's not as if this is a playoff team, so exactly what is he afraid of? Or the second option is to simply replace the weak component with one who is capable, or at least potentially more capable to run it. The option I don't see is not running it at all, which I guess is option #3.

So, going back to my carpenter anaolgy. The carpenter has trouble hammering nails. So, his boss has three options. Give the carpenter as many nailing projects as possible in hopes we will improve enough to turn this hammering weakness into a strength. Or, he can fire the carpenter and get someone else that can hammer well to put the house together. The one thing the boss would probably not do is to tell the carpenter to not worry about nailing the boards together because hammering is not a strength of his. Just put the wood together with some wood glue, and see if it sticks. If the carpenter doesn't nail the boards together, the house will likely collapse, and the entire structure will crumble.

Somewhere in there is an ancient Chinese proverb. :tease:

Malloy
11-12-2006, 09:42 AM
Our mistake was extending him at that dollar amount. Carr is an average starter in this league yet we over compensate.

I agree. I would have loved to see a one-year contract (basically keeping what we already had?) with some incentives (NOT yards! :) ). That way, Carr would have to prove that he has it, and if not, well, we only wasted 5 years and so-so money :)

Kaiser Toro
11-12-2006, 09:43 AM
Somewhere in there is an ancient Chinese proverb. :tease:

If not, there is certainly some sweet and sour pork in there.

Wolf
11-12-2006, 09:53 AM
I don't know many things could be brought out this offense.

When Sage was in, someone pointed out we ran 5 Wr sets and none with Carr.
Giants game someone pointed out we finally ran 5 WR sets with Carr in.

I am not sure if Carr's learning curve is holding the offense back(so to speak) or if Kubiak is working on the offensive scheme little by little.

Look at us defensively as the season has goine we have gotten better(so far) as more and more of the playbook is opened on that side of the ball(knocking on wood)

Vinny
11-12-2006, 10:37 AM
Mort on NFL gameday preview said that Carr was "playing it safe" and missing deeper plays (not telling me anything new). He said to keep an eye on Rosenfels.

Malloy
11-12-2006, 10:44 AM
Mort on NFL gameday preview said that Carr was "playing it safe" and missing deeper plays (not telling me anything new). He said to keep an eye on Rosenfels.

Rosenfels won't see the field unless Carr REALLY stinks it up. I would think that it would take around 2 turnovers for Rosenfels to play. Based on that, I'm really hoping NOT to see Rosenfels on the field :)

thunderkyss
11-12-2006, 11:27 AM
Secondly, I always thought if you had a weakness the best way to get better was to keep doing it. Do you think a carperter is going to build his best house on his first attempt, or the 20th house that he builds. Don't you think that each time he builds one, he has learned techniques to improve the quality of the structure as well as maybe finding some techinques to build it faster so that his 20th house was built more quickly, but also more soundly? I think so.

If it were my house, if dude isn't a relative, I don't want to be his first customer. It would be nice if he worked for a guy for 5 or ten years, and actually was the guy for the last 4 our 5 houses he built.


So, going back to my carpenter anaolgy. The carpenter has trouble hammering nails. So, his boss has three options. Give the carpenter as many nailing projects as possible in hopes we will improve enough to turn this hammering weakness into a strength.:tease:

When it's 3rd and 15, and David throws a 4 yard crossing route, or if we have Owen Daniel lined up on a converted DE, and David doesn't even look at him, Or if David is throwing to the guy in triple coverage, when there is another guy maned up on the other side of the field, or when David throws the 6 yard pattern, when there is a 15 yard pattern opening right behind the guy sitting at 6 yard....... or when David underthrows guys that are behind the coverage, or throws behind the reciever when the coverage is trailing in the endzone..... he's auditioning for the 2 minute drill.

thunderkyss
11-12-2006, 11:29 AM
Rosenfels won't see the field unless Carr REALLY stinks it up. I would think that it would take around 2 turnovers for Rosenfels to play. Based on that, I'm really hoping NOT to see Rosenfels on the field :)

We won't see Rosenfels again unless we are blowing someone out, or if we are beeing blown out, or unless someone gets hurt.

David is our QB, and we are going to work with him until he gets it right. He can throw three INTs against the Jags, and he'll finish the game. Even if they are obviously bad passes.

Malloy
11-12-2006, 11:35 AM
We won't see Rosenfels again unless we are blowing someone out, or if we are beeing blown out, or unless someone gets hurt.

David is our QB, and we are going to work with him until he gets it right. He can throw three INTs against the Jags, and he'll finish the game. Even if they are obviously bad passes.

I guess the "take-care-of-the-ball"-style that Kubiak benched Carr over is still in effect? That's primarly the reason I think that turnovers CAN bring Rosenfels on the field. Obviously turnovers suck, so I hope I won't be seeing Rosenfels at all :)

Stampede
11-12-2006, 11:51 AM
I agree with Tsip. I like you so this isn't personal, but I think this is a croc. Okay, first when exactly has Kubiak gone for it in a two minute drill? I mean balls to the wall we are trying to score? Not some namby pamby let's run a draw and hope we spring it for 20 and then we might actually try something. I don't remember, so please point when he has trusted the offense at the end of the first half.

Secondly, I always thought if you had a weakness the best way to get better was to keep doing it. Do you think a carperter is going to build his best house on his first attempt, or the 20th house that he builds. Don't you think that each time he builds one, he has learned techniques to improve the quality of the structure as well as maybe finding some techinques to build it faster so that his 20th house was built more quickly, but also more soundly? I think so.

So, here is the dilemma as I see it. To me, it's as obvious as the nose on your face that Kubes does not trust Carr to run a 2 minute drill. As I see it, that means one of two things. Let him run it as often as possible, and let him be the carpenter in my example above. Let him take his lumps, and see if he can improve over time. I don't understand how someone can improve a weak area without performing said weak area. It's not as if this is a playoff team, so exactly what is he afraid of? Or the second option is to simply replace the weak component with one who is capable, or at least potentially more capable to run it. The option I don't see is not running it at all, which I guess is option #3.

So, going back to my carpenter anaolgy. The carpenter has trouble hammering nails. So, his boss has three options. Give the carpenter as many nailing projects as possible in hopes we will improve enough to turn this hammering weakness into a strength. Or, he can fire the carpenter and get someone else that can hammer well to put the house together. The one thing the boss would probably not do is to tell the carpenter to not worry about nailing the boards together because hammering is not a strength of his. Just put the wood together with some wood glue, and see if it sticks. If the carpenter doesn't nail the boards together, the house will likely collapse, and the entire structure will crumble.

Somewhere in there is an ancient Chinese proverb. :tease:

He who can't nail, buys nail gun....um, did I miss the point somewhere? :)

swtbound07
11-12-2006, 11:56 AM
He who can't nail, buys nail gun....um, did I miss the point somewhere? :)

and then shoots a nail into triple coverage.