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View Full Version : Bench DD. . .Our Run Game Is Done


Texans Pride
09-28-2004, 07:04 PM
Is what Iíve been reading in many threads, I disagree. Many have stated that he is done and that our running game isnít going to threaten anyone.

I do believe DD needs to hold onto the rock and that until he does we are not going to be as effective as weíd like to be. However, I think many of us will agree that is has major talent, can make amazing cuts, and can open up the passing game for us because he is such a threat. The other 31 teams in this league know how explosive he is and just how much damage he can and will do to them if he is not contained.

WHEN he was in the game against KC he didnít have a good showing, but just as everyone does in the NFL, he had bad day. Wells played ok, he didnít have a great showing, but did make some key plays to help the team. I do not believe that Wells is the answer over DD. DD has been a great back, and will continue to be a great back. . . We just need to dip his hands in some tar! I have faith in him, and am sure he will return to the player that got him Rookie of the Year.


GO DD AND GO TEXANS!

Blake
09-28-2004, 07:16 PM
I agree that the running game is not done. But I do not agree with keeping DD in the game 100%b of the time. I think we should do running back by commitee with DD and JW. I like what I saw out of Wells. Im not blaming DD for the loses, but when you fumble like he has, things need to change. Again, for those DD lovers, I am in no way saying to bench the boy. Im just saying we need to split the carries for a few games. Maybe the season.

Fiddy
09-28-2004, 07:31 PM
However, I think many of us will agree that is has major talent, can make amazing cuts, and can open up the passing game for us because he is such a threat. The other 31 teams in this league know how explosive he is and just how much damage he can and will do to them if he is not contained.Explosive??? Major talent??? Portis, LT, Fred Taylor, and Jamal Lewis are major talents and Davis is not on that level and Davis is anything but an explosive back. He is a good back but to be explosive a player has to have a couple of long TD runs and Davis does not bust long TD runs or break 10 yard dump downs into anything. Is there anything different between Davis and Deuce Staley??? And if teams thought that Davis was so explosive do you think they would allow him to catch 10 yard dump offs??? You can easily take away a dump off but defenses will let him have it.

And DC_ROCK, why did you leave off Hollings???

Texans Pride
09-28-2004, 07:33 PM
DC,

I'm not sold on Wells enough to split time with DD, but Hollings should get some time for sure.

I'd also like our other offensive players to earn thier paycheck by making some plays. Of course that is only going to happen if DD isn't given the rock every play.

I think this KC game was a good showing that our other weapons on the team can and will get the job done when given the opportunity.

keyfro
09-28-2004, 07:43 PM
i'm not ready to give up on davis yet but either way i see us drafting a runningback on the first day of the draft next year...maybe not in the first round but i could see us picking one up in the second or third...or acquiring a young back through free agency...my guess is...look for the texans to make to inquire about mcgahee

Fiddy
09-28-2004, 07:48 PM
i'm not ready to give up on davis yet but either way i see us drafting a runningback on the first day of the draft next year...maybe not in the first round but i could see us picking one up in the second or third...or acquiring a young back through free agency...my guess is...look for the texans to make to inquire about mcgaheeUhh, McGahee??? That is the Bills RB for the future, they arent giving him up. And why would we take a RB on the first day of the draft or pay money for one through free agency??? If they do get one it will be to replace Wells (who I think becomes a FA, but not sure).

JDizzle
09-28-2004, 08:03 PM
I seriously doubt we draft a back on day 1 next year. You can easily find a serviceable backup in later rounds. Heck, sometimes you can even find a serviceable starter. Unless the guy is just too too good to pass up on, I don't believe it will happen. Not with our need for a young stud defensive lineman and possibly a tight end (Come on Joppy, I'm pullin' for ya!).

Since Davis will be listed as questionable sunday, maybe it's Holling's chance to show us what he's got.

infantrycak
09-28-2004, 09:13 PM
Explosive??? Major talent??? Portis, LT, Fred Taylor, and Jamal Lewis are major talents and Davis is not on that level and Davis is anything but an explosive back. He is a good back but to be explosive a player has to have a couple of long TD runs and Davis does not bust long TD runs or break 10 yard dump downs into anything. Is there anything different between Davis and Deuce Staley??? And if teams thought that Davis was so explosive do you think they would allow him to catch 10 yard dump offs??? You can easily take away a dump off but defenses will let him have it.

And DC_ROCK, why did you leave off Hollings???

You didn't choose to respond to me last time, maybe this time--put aside your like for Hollings (by the way look back and I was one of the biggest Hollings' sponsors prior to the expansion draft) and stop putting a negative spin on everything DD does--JMO. Just like kick returners I don't think the measure of a RB is long TD's. I think the measure of a RB is chewing up yardage and getting that extra yard when needed--versatile is a great add on as well. You have repeatedly criticized 10 yard dump down passes--another name for those is 1st downs. Does it make it better if DD gets 7 of those in a game or if DD gets 4 Miller 2 and Bruener 1? No unless the other team can shut DD down. Bigger picture for the gift theory crowd--noone in the NFL gives away 1st downs on purpose. Explosive?--wow, I define explosive as someone who rips off long runs or who runs over people he shouldn't and gets yards he shouldn't--DD meets one of those. Maybe if folks apply the same logic they do (and I do) about defending Carr, i.e. the OL ain't up to par yet, they would recognize that DD would be doing even better behind a good OL.

Anyone want to venture that DD would not have better numbers in KC than here or that Holmes would have worse numbers here than in KC?

HJam72
09-28-2004, 09:28 PM
There is absolutley nothing wrong with DD as our RB, except fumbles.

Having said that, however, I hope Carr learned something when he was able to get more passes off to receivers when DD was not in the game. Dumping to DD is not a bad idea, but I think Carr was doing it too much and possibly missing some opportunities downfield--or at least further down than DD. There's no question that the O-line isn't protecing him well enough, but DD went out and Carr threw more to receivers and the tight-end.

Mostly, though, it all comes down to that first sentence in this post. That and the fact that I do think both Hollings and Wells should get some time in every game. I think DD should be in there about 70% of the time, with the other 2 guys both splitting the rest. Obviously, Wells would be more the short yardage guy.

texasguy346
09-28-2004, 09:29 PM
Maybe if folks apply the same logic they do (and I do) about defending Carr, i.e. the OL ain't up to par yet, they would recognize that DD would be doing even better behind a good OL.

Anyone want to venture that DD would not have better numbers in KC than here or that Holmes would have worse numbers here than in KC?

I agree with that point, but I'd add that Shannahan wanted DD in last year's draft. He would shine behind the best OLine in the NFL. Big runs require more than just explosive speed. You also need WRs and/or TEs blocking down field. This isn't a shot at AJ or Gaffney or any of our WRs, but the Broncos put an increased emphasis on blocking for everyone on the team. I'm sure if DD ran in Denver's offense he'd be considered an explosive back. Especially with the departure of Portis.

Fiddy
09-28-2004, 09:56 PM
You didn't choose to respond to me last time, maybe this time--put aside your like for Hollings (by the way look back and I was one of the biggest Hollings' sponsors prior to the expansion draft) and stop putting a negative spin on everything DD does--JMO. Just like kick returners I don't think the measure of a RB is long TD's. I think the measure of a RB is chewing up yardage and getting that extra yard when needed--versatile is a great add on as well. You have repeatedly criticized 10 yard dump down passes--another name for those is 1st downs. Does it make it better if DD gets 7 of those in a game or if DD gets 4 Miller 2 and Bruener 1? No unless the other team can shut DD down. Bigger picture for the gift theory crowd--noone in the NFL gives away 1st downs on purpose. Explosive?--wow, I define explosive as someone who rips off long runs or who runs over people he shouldn't and gets yards he shouldn't--DD meets one of those. Maybe if folks apply the same logic they do (and I do) about defending Carr, i.e. the OL ain't up to par yet, they would recognize that DD would be doing even better behind a good OL.

Anyone want to venture that DD would not have better numbers in KC than here or that Holmes would have worse numbers here than in KC?Who wouldnt be great playing behind the KC O-line???

But IMO, the problems of the O-line can be attributed to DD. If he was a speedster, the opposing defense would hesitate to fill the box up with 8 players for the fear of getting burned long on a run. Teams have one year of film on DD and can tell that he is going to get his yards but hasnt proven that he can beat a team single-handly by ripping off a 60 yard runs (a la Portis, LT, Lewis, Taylor), so they say "why dont we stack the box and take our chances and blitz every down like it is a passing down because Davis is not going to get behind us if we guess wrong." (whoa, I just checked HPF and Vinny wrote something very similar to that...)

(I dont know if it is the change is scheme or Seth Wand and Pitts playing new positions, but the o-line last year looks better than the one this year.)

And yes, I cant argue that giving it to Davis on a dump off and letting him get the first down isnt good (but I do believe that unless you are LT and on the Chargers' your starting RB shouldnt have more receptions than your stud WR) but what defenses are doing are playing bend but dont break style because they know that when the Texans get deeper in the defenses territory they can stop them and hold them to a FG by sealing off Davis...

Goal line backs get yards they arent suppose to but you dont see anyone calling them explosive......


On a side note, Indy plays Cover 2 and for some reason Favre didnt take the 10 yard dump downs to Green and challenged deep to Walker and it worked and McNabb destroyed the Lions, who played Cover 2...

Hervoyel
09-28-2004, 10:09 PM
Domanick Davis is a weapon in the Texans arsenal. He shouldn't become the only weapon nor should he be put away completely. He's going to get you a hundred or near that on the ground in most games. He can rip a pretty good run from time to time though admittedly he has not shown an ability to do this on a Portis-Lewis-Taylor level yet. Maybe he never will and maybe that's just around the corner. Whichever one it is there isn't a person on this board who can say for certain that they know what his future is.

I think the biggest problem in weeks 1 & 2 with the way the Texans use Davis is that they channeled an enormous amount of their offense through him and seemingly forgot about everything else. The list of players who can take a team on their shoulders and carry them to a win on a week in and week out basis is very short. Only a handful have ever been good enough to do this and I personally think it was premature of the Texans coaches to put this much emphasis on Davis. It's not like their drawer full of "tools" was empty.

Take the pressure of Davis and spread the ball around. Let him go back to being "the" running back and not "the guy we're going to beat you with every week" and good things will start to happen again. Some weeks he might very well be the guy we're going to beat you with but those weeks will come a lot easier if the other team isn't focusing entirely on Davis.

Lastly he needs better run blocking. He had better blocking last season and was effective. This is simply a matter of the line getting it's gel on and settling down into the new blocking scheme. By midseason they'll start to resemble the line that helped DD to some of those hundred yard games and by the time the end of the season gets here there will be a real reason to be excited about what Davis, and the rest of the Texans are going to do in 2005.

jr0ck
09-28-2004, 10:41 PM
i agree with Hervoyel, although DD showed us alot of potential last year, it seemed a bit rushed to put so much of the offensive load on him so early. i hate to say it but the i think DD touching the ball as much as he did in week 1 & 2 might have led to the fumbles. i don't think he's fumble prone and i think if aj or hollings or any other skill player touched the ball that much in two games their fumbles would be comprable just because the risk is increased that much more. this being said i think DD should get a minimum of 15-20 carries a game and however many dump off carr needs to. im suprised people blame carr and davis for the ten yards a pop thing when the most obvious culprit is the o-line. the example was given about the eagles and colts torching cover 2/cover 2 shells by going deep.....well the difference between us and them is......o-lines. you can't blame DD for doing his job and relieving david, and you can't blame david for making the right call given the situation (heavy pass rush). and something funny i just thought of, everyone seems to think aj/corey/jabar are open more often then not. well i don't think anyone can give me one example of this because unless the ball is thrown, we don't see downfield! i believe in the talent of our VERY talented recieving core, but i also know CB's and S's exist downfield as well. and just to offer support to my argument that carr isn't getting the protection to make reads downfield but he is throwing when they are open is the favre-esque TD throw he made to bradford in the detroit game as he was getting sacked. yes bradford was wide open but carr had enought time to see it with an LB gunning him down. i think carr's the kinda QB who would take this kinda shot alot more, if it were there. but back on topic, DD is our answer for the next 2-3 years (pending fumbles) and if he matures like we all hope, the first "franchise" back in texans history!

Fiddy
09-28-2004, 10:57 PM
i agree with Hervoyel, although DD showed us alot of potential last year, it seemed a bit rushed to put so much of the offensive load on him so early. i hate to say it but the i think DD touching the ball as much as he did in week 1 & 2 might have led to the fumbles. i don't think he's fumble prone and i think if aj or hollings or any other skill player touched the ball that much in two games their fumbles would be comprable just because the risk is increased that much more. this being said i think DD should get a minimum of 15-20 carries a game and however many dump off carr needs to. im suprised people blame carr and davis for the ten yards a pop thing when the most obvious culprit is the o-line. the example was given about the eagles and colts torching cover 2/cover 2 shells by going deep.....well the difference between us and them is......o-lines. you can't blame DD for doing his job and relieving david, and you can't blame david for making the right call given the situation (heavy pass rush). and something funny i just thought of, everyone seems to think aj/corey/jabar are open more often then not. well i don't think anyone can give me one example of this because unless the ball is thrown, we don't see downfield! i believe in the talent of our VERY talented recieving core, but i also know CB's and S's exist downfield as well. and just to offer support to my argument that carr isn't getting the protection to make reads downfield but he is throwing when they are open is the favre-esque TD throw he made to bradford in the detroit game as he was getting sacked. yes bradford was wide open but carr had enought time to see it with an LB gunning him down. i think carr's the kinda QB who would take this kinda shot alot more, if it were there. but back on topic, DD is our answer for the next 2-3 years (pending fumbles) and if he matures like we all hope, the first "franchise" back in texans history!Davis had only one fumble late and that one was agianst the Chargers in the 4th quarter when he sealed the game for them. Davis was fresh when he fumbled the ball 3 times because those 3 fumbles occured in the first half. And Johnson has handled the ball about 80 times in his career without a fumble. Davis doesnt even have 80 touches this year and has 4 fumbles...

I watched the Colts and Eagles games', the difference was that the Packers and Lions didnt stack the lines on defense because James and Westbrook could destroy them on long runs.

And yes, I saw one play during the Lions game when Carr dumped it off to Davis and missed Gaff on a seam route...

infantrycak
09-28-2004, 11:34 PM
I watched the Colts and Eagles games', the difference was that the Packers and Lions didnt stack the lines on defense because James and Westbrook could destroy them on long runs...

Almost had me until here. The Packers and Lions didn't stack thelines on defense because Favre and McNabb would destroy them on passing plays not because James and Westbrook would destroy them on long runs. 22 passing plays to start the game--enough said.

infantrycak
09-28-2004, 11:43 PM
But IMO, the problems of the O-line can be attributed to DD. If he was a speedster, the opposing defense would hesitate to fill the box up with 8 players for the fear of getting burned long on a run.

Explain this one to me--show me where opposing defenses release everyone but their front 4 or 3 to cover those down field runs from the "elite" rb's, evidently giving up on every run under 5 yds, for shear fear of the 50 yd run? Folks routinely stack the line against the Ravens, KC, Miami last season, Denver last season, etc. to stuff run 1st offenses. Teams do not drop 7 or 8 to hope they can contain the RB down field.

Sidenote to Huge--funny how Emmitt wasn't all that great a back because he had no speed and the OL did all the work for him and DD makes his OL look bad because he doesn't have enough speed to break over 20 yd runs--by the way how often do you see an OLmen 20+ yds down field?

jr0ck
09-29-2004, 12:43 AM
Davis had only one fumble late and that one was agianst the Chargers in the 4th quarter when he sealed the game for them. Davis was fresh when he fumbled the ball 3 times because those 3 fumbles occured in the first half. And Johnson has handled the ball about 80 times in his career without a fumble. Davis doesnt even have 80 touches this year and has 4 fumbles...

I watched the Colts and Eagles games', the difference was that the Packers and Lions didnt stack the lines on defense because James and Westbrook could destroy them on long runs.

And yes, I saw one play during the Lions game when Carr dumped it off to Davis and missed Gaff on a seam route...

good point but just because 3 of the fumbles occured in the first half doesn't mean davis was fresh for them. in other words first half doesn't = fresh player. but i won't continue because defending something that shouldn't happen is pointless in itself.

i think infantrycak refuted your second point quite well with this statement:
Explain this one to me--show me where opposing defenses release everyone but their front 4 or 3 to cover those down field runs from the "elite" rb's, evidently giving up on every run under 5 yds, for shear fear of the 50 yd run? and i would like to add i don't think westbrook strikes fear into anyone the way edgirin james can, and i think teams who play the eagles would prefer westbrook to run wild if they could contain mcnabb in anyway shape or form.

as too the carr misread, i guess you got me on this one, but one mistake by carr doesn't really do anything to further or diminish either of our points. i was just trying to bring some balance to the viewpoint that carr/davis are the only one's who can/have taken away from the passing game. reciever's and o-line are also pretty improtant in the passing eqaution.

Ibar_Harry
09-29-2004, 01:52 AM
As much as I'm critical of the run game, its as much how DD is used that bothers me. He can be very effective when the passing game is established. He's a runner that needs some cover. Its not that we don't need DD, shouldn't use DD, but rather he's by far the best back we have. We need to use him, however, in a way that is successful. He should not be the primary component of the offense. Our receivers and the passing game should be our primary method of attack with the running game being the equalizer when they stack up against the pass. That's the way DD got a lot of his yards last year, but certainly not all of them. When the other team fears our passing game DD will be very affective. Wells, certainly surprised us last week, but I think neither Hollings or Wells are in the same league as DD at this point in time. For all of the talk about injuries to DD, Hollings has not been exactly a Rock of Gilbralter. This is another reason we need to emphasize the pass, because we have more excellent receivers than RB's. A season ending injury to DD would put us in a world of hurt.

Carr Bombed
09-29-2004, 02:02 AM
What DD is going through right now is all psychologicol. he ran decent in the first two games, but in the KC game you could clearly tell that those fumbles have gotten into his head. He was very hesitent hitting the holes and wasn't his shifty self. I also didn't see the second effort he us known for, probally was afraid somebody would strip the ball. As soon as Davis regains his confidence he will return to his old self. One big knock on Davis though is his speed and how he doesn't rip long tds, but as long as he has a good ypc I'm happy with him. DD is the kinda back that wears down a defense. He is a big brusier back in a small little body who hits the hole, makes one guy miss, breaks a few arm tackles, and fights with the defender before being brought down. Its just two bad he doesn't have more speed. You know watching Preist in sundays game, DD and Preist run alot alike, but Preist has superior speed and thats the difference from being a good quality back and a great back. He also needs to show that he can stay healthy through a whole season. I wouldn't be opposed to having a run by commitee backfield. It would help keep DD healthy and competion at that position is very healthy and brings out the best in each player, yall saw the fire that Wells had last week.

Ibar_Harry
09-29-2004, 02:10 AM
DD is just like JJ, he's too small to play. I say that of course with tongue in cheek. Just as JJ will probably never break one all the way, neither will DD. But day in and day out they will be far more effective than most backs and will consistantly loose very few yards. DD is always going forward. In fact one of the unsong heros of the KC game was JJ. He out performed D Hall as far as I'm concerned. JJ just doesn't make mistakes. He certainly gave us a lot of excellent field position. I feel the same way about DD. But just don't use him on every play. He's not that kind of back.

infantrycak
09-29-2004, 09:26 AM
On a side note, Indy plays Cover 2 and for some reason Favre didnt take the 10 yard dump downs to Green and challenged deep to Walker and it worked and McNabb destroyed the Lions, who played Cover 2...

No Favre didn't dump down to Green all day, he dumped down to Driver, Franks, Green, Henderson and Fisher all day on 5-15 yd passes. He had 3 receptions over 20 yards all day, i.e. he didn't challenge down field as much as Carr did against Detroit. McNabb had 5 tosses over 20 yds on 42 attempts. Carr had 5 tosses over 20 yds and should have had a 6th but for bad officiating on 34 attempts. Taking strikes down the field was not the difference in the out come of the Texans' and Eagles' games against Detroit.

SBTexans08
09-29-2004, 12:47 PM
The same remains....1. we need our O-line to over power the opposing D-lineman, to make it short....we need protection! We saw how dangerous Carr and his recieving corp can be.

2. We need a pass rush. We saw how it paid dividends Sunday....apply the pressure and you'll get in and you give our secondary a chance out there.

3. D.D. should not be the focal point in this offense. We have too many weapons and we've discovered that D.D. isn't a heavy load kind of back....this will in turn reduce the turnovers significantly giving us a chance to win with how productive our offense has been!

4. The coaching staff needs to be agressive when the situation calls. They did it Sunday....we have the team so don't hesistate. If you're already losing....what more do you have to lose......open that playbook!! :twocents:

Fiddy
09-29-2004, 04:41 PM
Explain this one to me--show me where opposing defenses release everyone but their front 4 or 3 to cover those down field runs from the "elite" rb's, evidently giving up on every run under 5 yds, for shear fear of the 50 yd run? Folks routinely stack the line against the Ravens, KC, Miami last season, Denver last season, etc. to stuff run 1st offenses. Teams do not drop 7 or 8 to hope they can contain the RB down field.The Texans. For the first three quarters of the first 3 games the Texans have brought 3 and dropped 8 because they were preventing Holmes and LT from getting into pass coverage but gave up 4-5 yards a carry....

And reasons that you stack the line against last years Ravens', KC, Miami, Denver:
Ravens: Boller was the starting QB till he got injured and then Wright took over and Marcus Robinson was the only deep threat. And teams that stacked the line payed the price because Lewis constanly broke long runs for TDs...
KC: The KC WR corps didnt strike fear in anybody so why not try to stop Holmes....and even when they stacked the line Holmes got 4-5 yards a pop
Miami: Chambers was the #1, who was the #2???
Denver: Teams are going to let Portis beat them when there is a 3rd string QB in there and a 34 year old Rod Smith was the #1 WR???? And when teams did stack the line, Portis went crazy...

When the Lions stacked the line against the Texans, did Davis still get his 4 yards a carry???? Teams stacked the line because they could stop Davis on running plays and then on a pass play they could contain Davis on a dump off and wouldnt give Carr enough time to look down field so by blitzing they stop the WRs. Would you rather die by 50 yard bombs or give up a 1st downs and know that sooner or later someone on the Texans will make a boneheaded mistake. Until Davis can bust out long runs, teams will continue to blitz...

infantrycak
09-29-2004, 06:47 PM
The Texans. For the first three quarters of the first 3 games the Texans have brought 3 and dropped 8 because they were preventing Holmes and LT from getting into pass coverage but gave up 4-5 yards a carry....

You need to go back and watch those games again because the Texans were not dropping 8 on running plays. Sure if Holmes or LT came out they put someone on him, but that isn't what your original assertion was--that teams drop 7 or 8 guys back rather than leaving at least the normal seven men in the box just (which by the way is not in itself called stacking the line it is base D) to stop long runs by elite RB's--that simply isn't true.

And reasons that you stack the line against last years Ravens', KC, Miami, Denver:...

Is because they had the elite RB's you said people should not be stacking against. Obviously where a team has no passing threat it makes the decision to stack easier. By the way, KC had over 4000 yds of passing last year--if people weren't scared of their nobody receivers they should have been cause they got burned enough.

When the Lions stacked the line against the Texans, did Davis still get his 4 yards a carry????

Yeah as a matter of fact early in the game he did. DD's runs in the 1st series--5, 6, 5, 8, 5. Then he got fumbilitis and his play went down hill.

Until Davis can bust out long runs, teams will continue to blitz...

Stacking the line and blitzing are not synonymous by the way.

To end this debate, I point you to a RB that was never known for his speed or for busting off long runs. Nonetheless he was the focus of an offense and teams commonly had stopping him as their primary game plan, which they did by at least keeping 7 men in the box, and by the way his team had a future hall of fame QB and WR as a threat as well--he also happens to have run for more yards than any other RB--Emmitt Smith.

Fiddy
09-29-2004, 08:05 PM
You need to go back and watch those games again because the Texans were not dropping 8 on running plays. Sure if Holmes or LT came out they put someone on him, but that isn't what your original assertion was--that teams drop 7 or 8 guys back rather than leaving at least the normal seven men in the box just (which by the way is not in itself called stacking the line it is base D) to stop long runs by elite RB's--that simply isn't true.Yeah, your right they werent dropping 8 on running plays but they were on pass plays to help stop LT/Holmes from catching the ball out of the backfield. By dropping 8 into coverage they showed that they werent going to let the RBs beat them. A year after LT averaged 6 catches a day for 7.3 yards per catch, the Texans droped 8 into coverage not because they were scared of Parker and Caldwell but because they were scared of L.T. and gave up 3 catches for -3 yards. And then they dropped 8 into coverage against the Chiefs because of Holmes and didnt allow him to catch a ball... So what I am saying is that if teams respected Davis' speed more they would bring more players closer to the line and may only bring 4 or 5 and that in turn would give Carr more time to throw...
Is because they had the elite RB's you said people should not be stacking against. Obviously where a team has no passing threat it makes the decision to stack easier. By the way, KC had over 4000 yds of passing last year--if people weren't scared of their nobody receivers they should have been cause they got burned enough.They shouldnt but teams do and the runners destroy them with long runs to take off the pressure....Yeah as a matter of fact early in the game he did. DD's runs in the 1st series--5, 6, 5, 8, 5. Then he got fumbilitis and his play went down hill.He did start out nicely but I would rather have a back that gets better as the game goes on (not saying Hollings is that type of back)...Stacking the line and blitzing are not synonymous by the way.They are not synonymous by they are linked. Teams that stack the line are not going to bring saftey support and then drop the saftey back into coverage most of the time. Teams that stack the line show no respect for the running backs ability to hurt them with long runs and/or the ability to take a short dump off and make it into a big gain....To end this debate, I point you to a RB that was never known for his speed or for busting off long runs. Nonetheless he was the focus of an offense and teams commonly had stopping him as their primary game plan, which they did by at least keeping 7 men in the box, and by the way his team had a future hall of fame QB and WR as a threat as well--he also happens to have run for more yards than any other RB--Emmitt Smith.Season long runs of 48, 75, 68, 62, 46, 60, 42, 44, 32, 63, 52, 44....Smith busted off a good amount of good sized runs...

BuffSoldier
09-29-2004, 09:39 PM
FIddy, do you have some type of beef with DD or what is it. DD is not a Portis, J Lewis, or whoever else but what do you want out of him? Have you been watching the games, DD is the Texans biggest threat so far this year and he is being stacked against, not because they dont think he can break runs but because the Houston passing game has not showed many deep downfield plays or a consitent completion of passes. Who do you know that doesnt stack the line vs a good RB? That made no sense and when did you see the Texans rush 3 and drop 8 on any running down against KC, or SD? That cant be true because they basically never drop Babin.Just because the LBs dont blitz it doesnt mean that they are dropped, maybe that means that the Texans LBs played their respective gaps to fill the running lanes instead of overpusueing on the blitz and then getting burnt. No they Texans have not blitzed alot, but they sertantly dont drop 8 players on a regular basis.


One more thing, I think that you are too stuck on top speed. I personally believe that DD best attribute is the attribute that makes or breaks running backs. He has great vision and the ability to make people miss. If speed was all that counted, why not get a horrible CB in the 6th or 7th round, let them run a 4.4 and put them at RB see how well that works. Speed does have something to do with breaking runs but since when has J.Lewis been a speedster or S. Davis or J. Bettis in his prime, but they broke long runs. J.Rice is not a very fast receiver but I bet he made more deep plays than practicaly any one in history. Speed isnt everything, it isnt even half.

Fiddy
09-29-2004, 11:05 PM
FIddy, do you have some type of beef with DD or what is it. DD is not a Portis, J Lewis, or whoever else but what do you want out of him? Have you been watching the games, DD is the Texans biggest threat so far this year and he is being stacked against, not because they dont think he can break runs but because the Houston passing game has not showed many deep downfield plays or a consitent completion of passes. Who do you know that doesnt stack the line vs a good RB? That made no sense and when did you see the Texans rush 3 and drop 8 on any running down against KC, or SD? That cant be true because they basically never drop Babin.Just because the LBs dont blitz it doesnt mean that they are dropped, maybe that means that the Texans LBs played their respective gaps to fill the running lanes instead of overpusueing on the blitz and then getting burnt. No they Texans have not blitzed alot, but they sertantly dont drop 8 players on a regular basis.


One more thing, I think that you are too stuck on top speed. I personally believe that DD best attribute is the attribute that makes or breaks running backs. He has great vision and the ability to make people miss. If speed was all that counted, why not get a horrible CB in the 6th or 7th round, let them run a 4.4 and put them at RB see how well that works. Speed does have something to do with breaking runs but since when has J.Lewis been a speedster or S. Davis or J. Bettis in his prime, but they broke long runs. J.Rice is not a very fast receiver but I bet he made more deep plays than practicaly any one in history. Speed isnt everything, it isnt even half.No I dont have a beef with him, I just feel that there could be a talent upgrade at the spot. What is so different between Staley and Davis??? Not much and you dont see the Steelers salivating over Staley. And I know that he isnt Portis but some of the people on this board thinks he is, remember before the season a lot of you guys thought that Davis could rush for 1700 yards??? And the biggest THREAT this year has been Andre Johnson. Here is an excerpt from an article published before the Chiefs game: While the Chiefs are well aware of Carr and Davis' talent, Johnson will be the scariest player in a Texans uniform.http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/football/nfl/kansas_city_chiefs/9734023.htm

No downfield plays??? Andre Johnson had 2 downfield plays against the Chiefs. And had another downfield play against the Lions along with Bradford.

I see the Texans dropping 8 all the time. I sit in my chair and watch and wait for it to happen and it always does. One of the reasons the Texans are giving up such a high amount of 3rd and long plays on defense is because they dont bring more then 3 guys a good amount of the time....

Jamal Lewis is fast, he ran a 4.45 40 when he came out of college...
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/2000/nfldraft/players/21894.html

Yeah, Rice made plays but Davis hasnt shown that he can make those long plays...

And I am stuck on speed because it can open up a offense so much more. Do you think if we had a healthy Micheal Bennett in the backfield teams would still blitz us as often??? I dont think so....

infantrycak
09-30-2004, 09:26 AM
I see the Texans dropping 8 all the time. I sit in my chair and watch and wait for it to happen and it always does. One of the reasons the Texans are giving up such a high amount of 3rd and long plays on defense is because they dont bring more then 3 guys a good amount of the time....
.

The Texans do drop some of the front 7 at times, but as you say, it is on 3rd and long, i.e. passing downs. That is not the situation that started this conversation which was dropping eight not for the purpose of pass protection but to make sure that elite backs don't break off long runs. Teams just don't do that--it is much easier for the LB's to tackle a RB as they pass in between the OLmen or to gang tackle than it is to make open field tackles. You never want to give a guy that is a running threat room to work in. You don't think DD is fast enough to be an elite RB--I think that is an overgeneralization, but if you recall before the season we agreed that AJ had a much better chance to go to the pro-bowl so we are in agreement that he is the biggest threat on the team. That said, this dropping guys to stop RB's down field thing isn't NFL reality.

Aussie
10-03-2004, 09:54 AM
i came in here to rip you for the title but after readimg it i agree wit you