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View Full Version : Kubiak? DC? Or the Receivers?


gtexan02
11-05-2006, 07:23 PM
So I've heard a lot of complaining about the play calling today. How much of it is warranted?

With 2 minutes left to go at half time and down by 4, caling a run up the middle seems pretty lame. Thats on Kubiak for sure. Wasted opportunity, and very interesting considering we lost by 4.

But what about the rest of the calls? What about all the short dump offs? What about the routes on 3rd and 5 where the receivers gained about 3 yards? Who is that on?

Is it Kubiak's fault? I mean, with 5 receivers, I'm sure some of them were running deep patterns. Can you blame Kubiak that Carr chose to throw to the guys under the coverage?

Is it Carr's fault? Is he the one choosing who to throw to, and choosing to throw all the dinks and dunks? I mean, Kubiak is the great QB coach, and he is a west coach guy, so is it fair to criticize Carr for plays that Kubiak is calling and coaching him on?

Is it the receivers fault? Are they not getting separation? Moulds was 1 on one 1 with McQuarters, and AJ was 1 on 1 a few times too, and they were letting scrub DBs stick right with them. For as good as our WRs supposedly are, I NEVER see them wide open. They are always making catches in traffic. But is it fair to criticize them for the bad plays when they may not even be involved at all?

The way I look at it, unless you go back and watch the gamefilm, it is impossible to criticize Carr, Kubiak, or the WRs. Maybe Kubiak chose plays where Carr is supposed to make a decision, but Carr has too little confidence to go for the big play. Maybe the WRs aren't getting open. Maybe Kubiak is calling 3 and 5 step drop and throw plays. Its tough to tell, but I'd love someone to give me some insight if they have it.

thunderkyss
11-05-2006, 07:37 PM
The way I look at it, unless you go back and watch the gamefilm, it is impossible to criticize Carr, Kubiak, or the WRs.

pssshh..... watch me. I'll go back and look at my game, recorded. It's not game field, but I try to be as objective as I can be. If I can't see the safety, I'll give David the benefit of the doubt. But if AJ or Moulds are in single coverage, I think the ball should go to him.

I thought the whole reason for getting the TE involved in the passing game, and getting a quality reciever opposite Andre, was so we could get single coverage on AJ, get the ball out there, and give him an opportunity to make a play on the ball.

The pass to AJ in the endzone, where he had to turn around to make the catch, IMHO doesn't qualify. he had to do everything he could to keep the DB from Intercepting that ball. There was all kinds of room in front of AJ where that ball should have been to give AJ a shot at making a play. In front, away from the reciever.

Same thing on the deep route to Eric. He had the guy beat, and was to the outside. The ball should have been ahead of him, not underthrown.

Maybe Kubiak chose plays where Carr is supposed to make a decision, but Carr has too little confidence to go for the big play. Maybe the WRs aren't getting open. Maybe Kubiak is calling 3 and 5 step drop and throw plays. Its tough to tell, but I'd love someone to give me some insight if they have it.

Maybe??

There ain't no maybe about it.

Carr is always supposed to make a decision. Unless you see the Offensive Linemen release ahead of the RB/TE, it is not a screen, and DC made the decision to throw the underneath route. Sometimes, that is the best route........ the best decision. But there is no way that can be the best decision that often.......

If we aren't getting one on one coverage on our receivers, and the defense is always taking away the deep route, then I'd blame Kubiak...

dat_boy_yec
11-05-2006, 07:43 PM
I gotta say on this one Carr deserve's most of the blame. I don't have gamefilm either, but there are alot of instances where he left opportunities on the field. There was one pass where he threw to Mould's I think who was immediately hit by the LB shadowing him. However Lundy was standing a few feet away from him and would have had a better shot at getting yds. Also on alot of plays you can see there are other receivers running their routes. You can't tell if they're covered or not, but it's clear that Carr has multiple options. Also maybe it's me, but Carr has looked off plays that he should have made. Again maybe I'm being to critical, but Carr left alot of plays on the field. Oh and anybody else notice that when he scrambles he rarely if ever looks down the field. I think he needs to work on this more. With all that said I think he's made a lot of progress, but still has a long way's to go.

Texas
11-05-2006, 08:04 PM
The play calling is definetly better then it used to be but theres still some stupid stuf that we do~

Hulk75
11-05-2006, 08:31 PM
Whos fault...........Cooks..........Hey you asked.:cool:

HomeBred_Texan
11-05-2006, 08:37 PM
Whos fault...........Cooks..........Hey you asked.:cool:

That fumble killed us period...

edo783
11-05-2006, 08:39 PM
Key point...as has been stated....you don't know from watching TV if the WR is covered or not or if there is a DB heading his way with bad intentons. What may look like an open reciever may in fact have someone out side of the camera frame that presents a problem. The only way any of us can say any play was good, bad or indifferent for execution is if we had access to all the coaches game tape. Until then, we speculate on what we THINK may be happening.

kfranco_utexas
11-05-2006, 08:56 PM
i before e except after c.

receive.

thunderkyss
11-05-2006, 09:04 PM
That fumble killed us period...

We've had more problems than not, getting the ball down field all game...........


What makes you think we could've got down the field to score on that drive??

How 'bout that missed field goal?? why didn't we put that one in the endzone??

MrMeToo
11-05-2006, 09:35 PM
I saw AJ pretty wide open on that the play where Cook fumbled.I was pretty upset he didn't get the ball in the 4th quarter.Johnson was having a good game and Carr didn't give him any chance.

Hulk75
11-05-2006, 11:48 PM
I saw AJ pretty wide open on that the play where Cook fumbled.I was pretty upset he didn't get the ball in the 4th quarter.Johnson was having a good game and Carr didn't give him any chance.

You know that , you had a nice TV view at it. I guess we will take your word for it.

run-david-run
11-06-2006, 01:50 AM
pssshh..... watch me. I'll go back and look at my game, recorded. It's not game field, but I try to be as objective as I can be. If I can't see the safety, I'll give David the benefit of the doubt. But if AJ or Moulds are in single coverage, I think the ball should go to him.

I thought the whole reason for getting the TE involved in the passing game, and getting a quality reciever opposite Andre, was so we could get single coverage on AJ, get the ball out there, and give him an opportunity to make a play on the ball.

The pass to AJ in the endzone, where he had to turn around to make the catch, IMHO doesn't qualify. he had to do everything he could to keep the DB from Intercepting that ball. There was all kinds of room in front of AJ where that ball should have been to give AJ a shot at making a play. In front, away from the reciever.

Same thing on the deep route to Eric. He had the guy beat, and was to the outside. The ball should have been ahead of him, not underthrown.


Maybe??

There ain't no maybe about it.

Carr is always supposed to make a decision. Unless you see the Offensive Linemen release ahead of the RB/TE, it is not a screen, and DC made the decision to throw the underneath route. Sometimes, that is the best route........ the best decision. But there is no way that can be the best decision that often.......

If we aren't getting one on one coverage on our receivers, and the defense is always taking away the deep route, then I'd blame Kubiak...

Just a couple of points: 1. I agree that the ball to AJ should have been better placed and should have been a TD. 2. To me it looked like Moulds and the CB were dead even, but the CB didnt know where the ball was. He got lucky that it basicaly hit his arm, because he was in no position to adjust to an underthrow, just bad luck.

thunderkyss
11-06-2006, 09:21 AM
Just a couple of points: 1. I agree that the ball to AJ should have been better placed and should have been a TD. 2. To me it looked like Moulds and the CB were dead even, but the CB didnt know where the ball was. He got lucky that it basicaly hit his arm, because he was in no position to adjust to an underthrow, just bad luck.

I don't want it to sound like I'm picking on David.... he's doing just what I expected him to do, progressing albeit at his own pace.

But if you watched the Replay, Moulds had a step, had to slow down, and come back to the ball.... basically had to come back through the DB. If he had caught that ball(which he had no chance to catch) it would have been an amazing play by Moulds.

phan1
11-06-2006, 11:40 AM
Those runs in the 2 min drill were pretty impressive last week against the Titans... It just didn't work today.

Meloy
11-06-2006, 11:50 AM
I don't want it to sound like I'm picking on David.... he's doing just what I expected him to do, progressing albeit at his own pace.

But if you watched the Replay, Moulds had a step, had to slow down, and come back to the ball.... basically had to come back through the DB. If he had caught that ball(which he had no chance to catch) it would have been an amazing play by Moulds.Help me on this, I thought if receiver came back for ball and he & DB bumped it is suppose to be defensive foul?

thunderkyss
11-06-2006, 12:05 PM
Help me on this, I thought if receiver came back for ball and he & DB bumped it is suppose to be defensive foul?

I was screaming for a flag, I thought the same thing.... dude didn't turn his head or anything.

Texan_Bill
11-06-2006, 12:20 PM
Whos fault...........Cooks..........Hey you asked.:cool:

That play ties into one issue that I had with Kubes... Yes, Jameel fumbled, but why would you have a guy (fullback) that is lucky to get one touch per game, in that situation.. He is blocking back..

The second issue that I had with our rookie coach was the challenge on the blocked kick that would have only netted an extra 8 yards....

But hey, Kubes will be just fine - anyone remember "hand-off left", "hand-off left", third and long - "draw play".........

thunderkyss
11-06-2006, 07:52 PM
That play ties into one issue that I had with Kubes... Yes, Jameel fumbled, but why would you have a guy (fullback) that is lucky to get one touch per game, in that situation.. He is blocking back..


Jameel is better receiving the ball than he is at being a blocking back..... He really doesn't have enough ass to knock people out of holes.

But generally, when he gets the ball, he makes plays, and gets extra yards.

Next to the big Lundy runs, his one run for 13 yards in yesterday's game belongs on our best run of the year list.

thunderkyss
11-06-2006, 07:54 PM
3-7-NYG38 (3:16) D.Carr pass incomplete deep middle to A.Johnson.

anyone else with the ability to re-watch our games, can you watch this play, and tell me what you see??

Nighthawk
11-06-2006, 08:35 PM
You know that , you had a nice TV view at it. I guess we will take your word for it.

Hand the man a jock strap. The Carr man-crush knows no bounds!

HomeBred_Texan
11-06-2006, 09:56 PM
We've had more problems than not, getting the ball down field all game...........


What makes you think we could've got down the field to score on that drive??

How 'bout that missed field goal?? why didn't we put that one in the endzone??

Looking for an argument?

What makes you think we wouldn't have scored a TD on that drive? Everything was going our way...

GP
11-06-2006, 10:38 PM
Maybe it's the fact that we have a whole new staff, new systems on offense AND defense, and a re-vamped roster?

Why does a loss have to be any singular person's fault?

We win as a team, and we lose as a team.

We're looking more like a team. And Kubiak is using REAL motivational tools and not just stupid "coach talk" like we got from Capers.

When the whoooooooooole team is playing as a unit, like the Colts or other teams that are good TEAMS, then we'll see wins.

I am seriously getting to the point where I think we CAN win with who we have, but only IF those guys all play the same the WHOLE game from start to finish.

It's different players every week that are costing us the wins. And when it's different scapegoats every week, then you know that there's not a singularly bad player out there who is costing us wins.

IMO, Buchanon was and might WILL BE the last person we cut this season. I think he might have been the last guy on our current roster whom Kubiak and staff just felt was no longer serving a useful purpose out there for our team.

Kubiak gives people several chances, but unlike Capers...the game is up when it's up. Carr came back after a very humbling benching last week, and he didn't lose the game for us. A fumble by a FB did. And the penalty on Mario didn't help either...but Kubiak was out on the field yelling and protesting the call to the refs, supporting Mario, so you know he wasn't upset at Mario about it.

Anyways, a loss stinks....but almost all of us figured we were going to get ripped apart by the mighty Giants. And we didn't. We lost, but we were in control of most of that game until they realized we weren't foolin' around. And any Giants fan (or fan of the NFL, for that matter) who says that they knew the Giants would win (as they watched that game) is lying. It looked very much like we could get out of there with the win.

So I like what's happening from week-to-week. AJ was solid after dropping key 3rd down passes the previous week. Carr protected the ball. The line protected Carr. Mario got ANOTHER sack.

Kubiak's right: If these guys play like this every week, they will unlearn how to lose and they begin to learn how to win. He has a REAL plan, unlike Capers (whose plan was to "manage" and "maintain"), and he's force-feeding it to the players every week. They are starting to really believe in their coach, and when you believe in your coach...it suddenly transforms a bunch of singular players into a TEAM.

The great teams believed in their coach: Jimmy Johnson, Cowher, Belichick, Holmgren, Lombardi, Walsh, Shula. All those coaches had teams where the players just knew that their coach was the best, and they trusted them.

We might get blasted agaist the Jags. That's OK. Why? because it gives Kubiak another chance to find the flaws and address them. And he WILL. There's a new era of Texans football...an era that says "Despite the team's record, they are held to a standard and there is either reward or punishment waiting for those who fail or succeed." And that translates into us weeding out the Buchanons and the Gary Walkers of the NFL, and it means attracting the guys like Eric Moulds to our team.

It takes time, but Capers did so little with all the time HE was given that we're skeptical of believing that Kubiak also needs time. We don't want to give Kubiak time because we got burned for thinking like that with Capers as coach.

There'll be more bumps ahead of us, but I like what I see in our overall team.

wolf123
11-06-2006, 10:50 PM
3-7-NYG38 (3:16) D.Carr pass incomplete deep middle to A.Johnson.

anyone else with the ability to re-watch our games, can you watch this play, and tell me what you see??

it was overthrown (high). AJ had a deep crossing pattern across the middle and jumped for it, fully outstretched. It was simply overthrown.

wolf123
11-06-2006, 10:53 PM
I rewatched the entire game and decided to provide you guys with everything I could about the formation and the resulting play of the Giants game. Maybe this will help clear up/understand some stuff...maybe not. Enjoy.

1ST SERIES
1-10 2 fb set, lundy left for 4

2-6 false start (pitts)

2-11 5 WR AJ 5yd slant

1-10 3WR-1RB Lundy 2 yd loss

2-12 4 yd pass to Daniels runs for 5 more

3-3 Carr designed scrambled to right *4yd gain

1-10 5wr lundy split far right -1yd pass, runs for 10

1-10 2wr-2RB lundy up the middle for 2

2-8 toss left, walter motion left to block, lundy 2yd

3-6 5wr, motion lundy into backfield, leak pass to lundy(dropped)

4-6 miss FG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
2nd series start @ 35

1-10 5wr 8yd out to AJ (1YAC)

2-1 2WR-2RB FB dive-HB fake toss, Cook 14yd run

1-10 3WR PA deep(42yd attempt) to moulds (incomplete) (underthrown but dropped)

2-10 3wr1rb draw, lundy gains 3

3-7 2wr-2rb PA deep middle(20yd attempt) to AJ (incomplete) (high overthrow)

4-7 Punt to 15 (30yd punt)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
(2Q) 3rd series @ 10

1-10 2TE set pass left to moulds on 2yd slant(incomplete)

2-10 5wr pass left to moulds, 5yd out)

3-4 2te1rb, pass right to moulds, 7yd curl

1-10 iform lundy right, gain of 2

2-8 5wr aj cross for 7

3-1 2wr PA rollout right, 14yd pass to Daniels(1YAC)

1-10 false start (weary)

1-15 5wr to aj on a 5yd out (2yac)

2-7 5wr pass right 10 yd curl walter

1-10 iform lundy left offtackle, no gain

2-10 5wr, carr scramble 9 yd

3-1 3wr PA rollout, AJ 5yd out (1YAC)

1-10 offset iform, pass to daniels on 2yd cross(dropped)

2-10 3wr1rb, lundy run right, gain 1

3-9 5wr, carr drifts right rather than stepping into pocket(incomplete to moulds 4 yd cross) bad play by carr!

4-9 FG
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
4th series @ 20 1.42 left

1-10 5wr, motion lundy to backfield run up middle for 2

2-8 5wr, timeout HOU

2-8 5wr 2 yd curl to aj (2YAC), inside corner and safety bite hard, walter open overtop

3-5 3wr (38s) lundy middle 2yd

4-3 punt(38yd HORRIBLE)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
(3Q) 5th series @ 20

1-10 5wr 10 yd pass to Moulds (0YAC)

1-10 2FB lundy middle for 2

2-8 offset I PA, Carr scrambles op middle for 3

3-5 5wr, moulds motion to right leaving iso on left, 5 yd out to AJ (3YAC)

1-10 2WR, twins right, lundy run left for 3

2-7 2wr, twins right, RB screen right to Dayne, 5yd gain

3-2 2wr2TE, PA rollout right, 3yd pass to Daniels (4YAC) It looks like Daniels is woozy after the hit

1-10 same set, lundy run left for 4

2-6 Iform, pass to cook up center for 5yd (incomplete) (def. pass int, not called)

3-6 5wr, motion lundy to back, carr scrambles middle, 5yd gain

4-1 2TE2RB, lundy right for 2

1-10 2TE2WR, lundy leak left, 1YAC

2-9 offset I, 10yd curl left to AJ (2YAC)

1-10 2FB2WR1RB PA rollout right (incomplete) (threw it away)

2-10 offset I twins right, pass to AJ 12yard skinny post, (incomplete) pass thrown a little behind, still could have been caught. Poor blitz pickup by lundy, Carr steps into
pocket and has body hit possibly affecting throw.

3-10 3WR1RB twins right, 8yd in to AJ, personal foul on D automatic 1st

1-10 on the 3, 2FB run lundy middle for 1

2-G Offset I, lundy motion out, Carr run middle for TD
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
(4Q) 6th series @ 49

1-10 Offset Iclose, lundy right for 1, led by cook who blocked air

2-9 Iform 2Wide, pass center to lundy for 6...Holding weigert(Carr stepped into pocket well here)

2-19 5WR, Carr stepped on by Flanagan...SACK

3-25 3WR1RB, lundy draw for loss of 1

4- Punt for 35yd...HORRIBLE
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
7th series @ 30

1-10 5wr 1yd curl by lundy on outside, 1YAC

2-8 2TE 20yd pass to Daniels, DROPPED, Roughing Passer

1-10 2TEClose, lundy run right 8yds

2-2 same formation, lundy left 3yds

1-10 (6min) IformClose, lundy middle for 4yds

2-6 Iform twin left, cook center 5 yd curl. FUMBLED

GAME OVER.

TK_Gamer
11-07-2006, 05:55 AM
I rewatched the entire game and decided to provide you guys with everything I could about the formation and the resulting play of the Giants game. Maybe this will help clear up/understand some stuff...maybe not. Enjoy.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
4th series @ 20 1.42 left

1-10 5wr, motion lundy to backfield run up middle for 2
2-8 5wr, timeout HOU
2-8 5wr 2 yd curl to aj (2YAC), inside corner and safety bite hard, walter open overtop

3-5 3wr (38s) lundy middle 2yd

4-3 punt(38yd HORRIBLE)

once again end of the half only this time we dont get the ball after the break and we come out with a run, then HUDDLE up before calling time out. then we put AJ on a 2 yd curl? our best reciever on a 2 yd curl with time running out. why? we seem to think we can create all this yardage after the catch but we hardly ever do. then kubiak gives up and runs the clock out.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
(---------------------------------------------------------------------------
7th series @ 30

1-10 5wr 1yd curl by lundy on outside, 1YAC

2-8 2TE 20yd pass to Daniels, DROPPED, Roughing Passer

1-10 2TEClose, lundy run right 8yds

2-2 same formation, lundy left 3yds
1-10 (6min) IformClose, lundy middle for 4yds

2-6 Iform twin left, cook center 5 yd curl. FUMBLED

GAME OVER.

the game is still winable and the best we can do is 3 runs and a 1 yd curl by lundy? I suppose this is all Carr's fault. he just cant lead the team to victory.

wolf123
11-07-2006, 12:22 PM
the game is still winable and the best we can do is 3 runs and a 1 yd curl by lundy? I suppose this is all Carr's fault. he just cant lead the team to victory.

1st of all, the 2 yd curl to AJ to end the half was a botched WR screen that was poorly executed by the lineman, according to Kubiak.

In the last series, we had 5 minutes left and were moving down the field effectively, trying to use as much clock as possible. By using the clock, Manning II would have less time to attempt to score and therefore less strain on our defense. We were at the Giants 38yd line! Cook's catch would have given us a first down at the 36 or so. Very possible to score here, bud. Were expecting a 30 yard pass to Aj, leaving Eli 4:30 minutes to cram the ball down our throat for 4 minutes then finally placing it in the endzone for the win...Come on, this was actually a good game plan, we just had a fumble, cant do much about it

Also, the 1yd curl might have been a screen to his side with the other WR blocking for him, just not performed adequately, but this is speculation.