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View Full Version : Oh Oh.. Now even Reggie is getting questioned


Dime
11-04-2006, 11:06 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AgtCyCCQfcEtw5f5Lpo7RQNDubYF?slug=jc-notes110206&prov=yhoo&type=lgns


WHAT'S WRONG WITH REGGIE?
After Baltimore shut down New Orleans Saints rookie running back Reggie Bush on Sunday, limiting him to nine touches for a total of 21 yards, the simmering talk around the NFL became a full-blown discussion: Is Bush all that good?

Right now, the people who thought that the way he played at USC wouldn't translate to the NFL appear to be right. Still, there are a few people who think that Bush just hasn't learned how to take advantage of his raw skills.

"Right now, I see a weaker version of Dave Meggett," one scout said. "Good speed, a guy you have to account for, but he doesn't run very hard. The worst thing is that I don't see the guy attack the field very much right now. He looks tentative, like he's not sure where all the defensive guys are."

To another personnel man, that's part of the growing process.

"A lot of young guys are tentative, particularly in the passing game, because they're not used to the speed and all the bodies that come flying at them. Bush has plenty of talent, that's not the problem. The problem is that this is total culture shock in terms of what he went from to what he's seeing.

"First, he was way better than everybody else. Second, he was surrounded by a bunch of other guys who were way better than everybody else. The last thing is that the style of game they play in the Pac-10 is different. It's a passing league right now and the defensive talent in that conference is just average. It's not like the SEC, where you have a lot of great defensive players, fast linebackers, fast safeties.

"Bush is going to be fine. It's just going to take a little time."

The bottom line: Bush's season not only pales in comparison to several other rookies in the league, but he doesn't rank among the top two rookie running backs. For now, fellow first-round picks Laurence Maroney of New England and Joseph Addai of Indianapolis get the nod as the top rookie backs.

Maroney has rushed 94 times for 395 yards and caught nine passes for 110 yards. He also has been impressive as a kickoff returner. Addai, who slowly appears to be taking over as the top back in Indy after his performance at Denver, has rushed 87 times for 447 yards and one touchdown. He also has 19 receptions for 144 yards.

By contrast, Bush has been nearly a non-factor as a running back with 70 carries for 212 yards. He has been a consistent threat as a receiver with 42 catches for 290 yards. But the overall impact among the three has been about the same.

Maroney, who splits time with Corey Dillon, has 505 total yards from scrimmage. Addai, who splits time with Dominic Rhodes, has 591 yards from scrimmage. Bush, who splits time with Deuce McAlister, has 502 yards.

While people can argue the ins and outs of all three players and the teams they play for, the reality is that Bush was the No. 2 overall pick. Maroney was No. 21. Addai was No. 30.

The argument over who is the best of the three shouldn't be close.

TEXANS84
11-04-2006, 11:20 AM
I love it.

If Mario gets a couple more sacks will ESPN25 change to ESPN90?

bah007
11-04-2006, 11:47 AM
I love it.

If Mario gets a couple more sacks will ESPN25 change to ESPN90?

No. They invested their entire reputation in this kid when they guaranteed he would be a Hall of Famer.

YoungTexanFan
11-04-2006, 11:57 AM
lol. You don't think ESPN has those tapes hanging over a fire already? They're ready to burn 'em baby!!:bananasplit:

nunusguy
11-04-2006, 12:16 PM
Through the first seven games of the New Orleans Saints' season, Bush is the league's 47th-ranked rusher with 212 yards in 70 carries and no touchdowns. Above him on the list are rookies Joseph Addai of Indianapolis, Laurence Maroney of New England, Wali Lundy of Houston, Leon Washington of the New York Jets, Jerious Norwood of the Atlanta Falcons and, most notably, former UCLA standout Maurice Jones-Drew of Jacksonville.
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-nflcol3nov03,1,6685826.column?coll=la-headlines-sports&track=crosspromo
********************************************
Here's another story along the same lines as the one found in the lead of this
thread, but from Bush's hometown LA Times.
And please take note: one of the players they list ahead of Bush in rushing yards for NFL rookie backs is a certain 6th round pick from a certain team that is the only member of the AFC South that is located west of the Miss R.
As if we needed any more redemption for passing on that overrated hype machine, we certainly don't anymore !

Wolf
11-04-2006, 12:23 PM
I think bush will be ok.. one hand they can say Bush had talent around him a usc.. well couldn't you actually question the talent comparing N.O. to talent level of Indy/N.E?

Double Barrel
11-04-2006, 12:34 PM
I'm not a Bush basher in any sense. Hope the kid succeeds like the rest of them.

But, I do find it rather humorous that all the so-called 'experts' had him taking the NFL by storm before the draft. I actually read articles that said Bush and Young would "redefine" how the NFL would be played, and team owners would be discussing the implementation of new rules to deal with these two players' impact on the pro game.

Go figure, they're human like everyone else. The NFL = The Great Equalizer

Texas
11-04-2006, 12:35 PM
I knew he wouldnt be the "god" everyone portrayed him out to be!

kastofsna
11-04-2006, 01:00 PM
i'm stunned.

gg no re
11-04-2006, 01:17 PM
I didn't see this one coming.

dtran04
11-04-2006, 01:18 PM
It is Yahoo, the anti-Reggie network. LOL. They were the ones investigating his family the whole time, not ESPN.

bah007
11-04-2006, 01:20 PM
It is Yahoo, the anti-Reggie network. LOL. They were the ones investigating his family the whole time, not ESPN.

Yea lets keep it in perspective.

This is Yahoo Sports.

If ESPN comes out & questions Reggie's holiness then we can declare a major victory for common sense.

mexican_texan
11-04-2006, 01:27 PM
Yea lets keep it in perspective.

This is Yahoo Sports.

If ESPN comes out & questions Reggie's holiness then we can declare a major victory for common sense.
I think they did that on NFL Live.

bah007
11-04-2006, 01:30 PM
I think they did that on NFL Live.

No the only guys that do NFL for ESPN & dont carry Reggie's jock for him are Golic & Schlereth (curiously both of them actually played in the NFL).

Golic said something about Bush being overrated on NFL Live & then Trey Wingo pretty much called him an i d i o t (curiously Trey Wingo has never played football in his life).

Carr Bombed
11-04-2006, 01:31 PM
Bush has plenty of talent around him, they have a powerback in Deuce, a great veteren WR in horn, a previous probowl player in Brees, he is the reason why the Saints have done as well as they have and one of the best rookie receivers in Colston. Their offense can run with any offense in this league.

I think the problem is that you can't run around people in this league. As a running back you have to have the ability to run through people and break tackles.....Bush does not have the ability to run through people and break tackles. He tries to make people miss, in this league people don't miss.........

He does make a great slot receiver though (and special teamer)..........#2 pick on a slot receiver, great investment, especially when you already have a elite running back, classic example of a team falling for the hype

GuerillaBlack
11-04-2006, 01:49 PM
Reggie is a bad running back, but a good WR. Maybe even above average. I don't wish bad on the kid, but the hype is finally calming down. Mario is picking up steam, as well as a sixth rounder Lundy.

thunderkyss
11-04-2006, 04:05 PM
Through the first seven games of the New Orleans Saints' season, Bush is the league's 47th-ranked rusher with 212 yards in 70 carries and no touchdowns. Above him on the list are rookies Joseph Addai of Indianapolis, Laurence Maroney of New England, Wali Lundy of Houston, Leon Washington of the New York Jets, Jerious Norwood of the Atlanta Falcons and, most notably, former UCLA standout Maurice Jones-Drew of Jacksonville.
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-nflcol3nov03,1,6685826.column?coll=la-headlines-sports&track=crosspromo
********************************************
Here's another story along the same lines as the one found in the lead of this
thread, but from Bush's hometown LA Times.
And please take note: one of the players they list ahead of Bush in rushing yards for NFL rookie backs is a certain 6th round pick from a certain team that is the only member of the AFC South that is located west of the Miss R.
As if we needed any more redemption for passing on that overrated hype machine, we certainly don't anymore !

That's not fair...... Lundy has only played in 4 games. He wasn't even active for three games this season.

How can you compare his numbers to Reggies??

TexanSam
11-04-2006, 04:25 PM
I listened to the Dan Patrick Show last week and Sean Salisbury said he would take Morency's future over Bush's. I think this is the same Sean Salisbury that salivated all over Reggie Bush. One of the so called ESPN "experts" would berated the Texans to no end after we passed on him.

Double Barrel
11-04-2006, 04:29 PM
At least we know the so-called media "experts" have absolutely no influence on our front office's decisions. Ticket sales and marketing be damned, Kubiak and McNair are trying to build a winning football team.

NYSportsfreak
11-04-2006, 05:00 PM
I listened to the Dan Patrick Show last week and Sean Salisbury said he would take Morency's future over Bush's. I think this is the same Sean Salisbury that salivated all over Reggie Bush. One of the so called ESPN "experts" would berated the Texans to no end after we passed on him.

Salisbury just goes with the flow. He jumps on the bandwaggon of the popular player or team. A trained monkey can do his job.

edo783
11-04-2006, 05:14 PM
Reggie is a bad running back, but a good WR. Maybe even above average.

The running back thing is certainly true. However, the WR thing is a tad overstated IMO. Last time I looked he was rated #40 out of the top 40 recievers and he had the lowest yards per catch in the league. He has had a lot of catches, but hasn't done much with them. The Saints are doing exactly what everyone said they should with Bush, toss him the ball out in space and let him make a play. So far, that hasn't amounted to much. Seems to have good hands catching the ball, just hasn't gotten it down field.

mexican_texan
11-04-2006, 06:41 PM
Why have I not heard a single thing about the Brick House, since we're on the subject?

texan279
11-04-2006, 07:07 PM
Salisbury just goes with the flow. He jumps on the bandwaggon of the popular player or team. A trained monkey can do his job.

The monkey would probably do a better job...

Dime
11-04-2006, 10:04 PM
I think bush will be ok.. one hand they can say Bush had talent around him a usc.. well couldn't you actually question the talent comparing N.O. to talent level of Indy/N.E?

Only reason this, to me, isnt the case is look at duace. He is puttng out twice to three times reggies production right now. Per down and etc.

Dime
11-04-2006, 10:08 PM
the thing that gets the most is this...

"Bush is going to be fine. It's just going to take a little time."

We say that about Mario and we are told how big of a mistake we made.. Now they are saying that about Bush rofl...

thunderkyss
11-04-2006, 10:09 PM
the thing that gets the most is this...

"Bush is going to be fine. It's just going to take a little time."

We say that about Mario and we are told how big of a mistake we made.. Now they are saying that about Bush rofl...

there are a couple of fans on the Saintsreport.com that think Reggie is tentative about running the ball.....

GuerillaBlack
11-04-2006, 10:16 PM
I went there once, and got blasted for saying that before the season started. I was told because I live in Houston, and am just upset that Reggie didn't end up here. Never went back since.

Roughnecks
11-04-2006, 10:50 PM
Why have I not heard a single thing about the Brick House, since we're on the subject?

He's a O lineman, and they do not get any love just questioned when they miss blocks.

thunderkyss
11-04-2006, 10:59 PM
I went there once, and got blasted for saying that before the season started. I was told because I live in Houston, and am just upset that Reggie didn't end up here. Never went back since.

I've followed the Saints since they drafted Ricky....

I didn't plan on watching them much this year, since JoeHorn is the only person on that team that I like. For some reason I just wanted so bad for them to turn that thing around.

But...... now I figure I better spend my energy on hoping/praying we turn our thing around here in Houston.

awtysst
11-05-2006, 12:55 AM
Why have I not heard a single thing about the Brick House, since we're on the subject?

Good question, how is Da Brick doing? I guess we will find out first hand in a few weeks.

Goldeagle
11-05-2006, 07:33 AM
I think bush will be ok.. one hand they can say Bush had talent around him a usc.. well couldn't you actually question the talent comparing N.O. to talent level of Indy/N.E?

ESPN has already used this excuse saying "Well he does not have to do much, lots of talent around him." meaning he is surrounded by talent in N.O.

Rocket Ishamel HERE WE COME!

CenTexNative
11-05-2006, 07:42 AM
Well I for one always thought that White would be the better NFL back than Bush . Not that I don't think Bush can make it in the NFL. I just think White was a harder and stronger runner than Bush. As long as Bush has a good line making holes for him to run through he will be fine. Or if he has good blockers on sweeps or other types of outside palys...again he will be fine. But he has to come up against a swarming type defense ....he loses.

Those that don't agree ...it's ok. I understand.

swtbound07
11-05-2006, 09:16 AM
I've been calling Reggie to fail for about a calendar year now...its nice to finally have other people realize it.

TexansLucky13
11-05-2006, 09:28 AM
I've been calling Reggie to fail for about a calendar year now...its nice to finally have other people realize it.

Half a year for me. I would rather see Vince Young get reduced by a DB though....

gwallaia
11-05-2006, 09:40 AM
What Reggie Bush needs now is more endorsements, more shoe commercials, maybe add a cologne deal. Anything to prove that he is still the hotshot player EPSN has promised us.

kastofsna
11-05-2006, 10:05 AM
he better start collecting the money now because his 2nd contract won't be worth much.

Hottoddie
11-05-2006, 10:06 AM
Not that I needed it, but I feel justified on my pre-draft Bush position. :headbang: :D

Just out of curiousity, assuming Bush doesn't get much better than he is right now, & given all the hype that's surrounded him, where will he rank on the list of all time busts (or, disappointments)?

thunderkyss
11-05-2006, 10:08 AM
I've been calling Reggie to fail for about a calendar year now...its nice to finally have other people realize it.

Why would you want Reggie to fail??

what's he ever done to you??

swtbound07
11-05-2006, 10:14 AM
Why would you want Reggie to fail??

what's he ever done to you??

short answer is he annoys me. He's in my top 3 pantheon of hated professional athletes, occupying the number 2 spot only to carlos beltran. Michelle Wie is 3rd. I hate players who get overhyped, and i hate when houston gets roasted over a personnel decision by the MSM, who then continues to get back to ignoring houston like they do every other week. I wish him nothing but the worst. Hated him at USC, hate him here, and hope he continues his 3.0 ypc and no rushing/recieving td's.

mexican_texan
11-05-2006, 10:25 AM
Sure he is just a rookie, but Bush has not had that spark that VY and Mario have shown, the spark that says that they are nowhere near their prime. Bush, on the other hand, has a punt returned to the house. Just like 5th string CBs, 6th string WRs, and 3rd string RBs.

Tulip
11-05-2006, 10:29 AM
Unlike ESPN, I can't forecast the entirety of Reggie Bush's NFL career. I'm certainly not ready to write him off as a bust.

But I do feel justified in noting that the reason I heard ad nauseum from the media for choosing Reggie over Vince or Mario is because Reggie was the only one who was "NFL ready" - the only immediate impact player of the three.

Now, I was never naive enough to buy that (if a team always looked for the player who would project to have the best rookie year - running backs would be selected in disproportionately high slots), so it's almost nice to see ESPN being proved wrong with Reggie having the least impact on his team this year compared to Mario or Vince.

powerfuldragon
11-05-2006, 10:41 AM
A rookie not performing as well as seasoned vets???

Gasp.

kastofsna
11-05-2006, 10:57 AM
A rookie not performing as well as seasoned vets???

Gasp.
or as well as 5 or 6 other rookies.

tulexan
11-05-2006, 10:59 AM
Didn't Ron Jaworski pick him in the first round of the fantasy draft?

I wonder how that is working out for him.

nunusguy
11-05-2006, 11:06 AM
Obviously none of us know what kind of NFL career Bush will ultimately have,
though it's clear that he's off to something less than an auspicious start.
But what's really puzzling was the very large consensus of opinion reached
by the experts as to who was the clear #1 choice back in April ? There were
polls taken where all but 4 or 5 teams had Bush rated above all others.
How can the experts be so wrong if it actually turns out that Bush is not even among the top 2 or 3 running backs taken back in Aprils Draft, let alone among all players ? Can anybody else even remember when a single player who was not a QB was such a popular choice prior to a Draft ?

awtysst
11-05-2006, 11:08 AM
Didn't Ron Jaworski pick him in the first round of the fantasy draft?

I wonder how that is working out for him.

Yeah, i believe that he did.

thunderkyss
11-05-2006, 11:12 AM
Sure he is just a rookie, but Bush has not had that spark that VY and Mario have shown, the spark that says that they are nowhere near their prime. Bush, on the other hand, has a punt returned to the house. Just like 5th string CBs, 6th string WRs, and 3rd string RBs.

Speaking of which.... how many teams in the top 5 aren't starting their first round picks??

That tells you something about the talent level of the N.O. Saints... & how much of a need he filled.

If he'd have come to Houston, Tennessee, NYJ, SF, GB, he'd have had an opportunity to start by now...... he would have at least competed for the job in the preseason.

But not so with N.O. They knew who their starting RB was going to be well before the draft.

Of course..... Duece may not have ran as well as he has if he wasn't worried about Reggie stealing his job.

TexansLucky13
11-05-2006, 11:17 AM
Sure he is just a rookie, but Bush has not had that spark that VY and Mario have shown, the spark that says that they are nowhere near their prime. Bush, on the other hand, has a punt returned to the house. Just like 5th string CBs, 6th string WRs, and 3rd string RBs.

Even though I don't like your avatar I agree with this.

Also, did you see the blocks he got on that punt return?!? My Grandma coulda run that punt back for 6 point with all the blocks he got! What did he have to do.... juke the punter?? Hahahah.

Dime
11-05-2006, 11:22 AM
Sure he is just a rookie, but Bush has not had that spark that VY and Mario have shown, the spark that says that they are nowhere near their prime. Bush, on the other hand, has a punt returned to the house. Just like 5th string CBs, 6th string WRs, and 3rd string RBs.

I think Bush can be one of the best players in the rb position.. The problem i feel is that Bush needs to get over himself and start working. Too many people old him how great he is, but he hasnt proved it yet, and I think it hurt the kid on his potential.

Tulip
11-05-2006, 11:23 AM
Obviously none of us know what kind of NFL career Bush will ultimately have,
though it's clear that he's off to something less than an auspicious start.
But what's really puzzling was the very large consensus of opinion reached
by the experts as to who was the clear #1 choice back in April ? There were
polls taken where all but 4 or 5 teams had Bush rated above all others.
How can the experts be so wrong if it actually turns out that Bush is not even among the top 2 or 3 running backs taken back in Aprils Draft, let alone among all players ? Can anybody else even remember when a single player who was not a QB was such a popular choice prior to a Draft ?

I think the player a team says they'd pick at #1 isn't necessarily the player they would pick if they were actually in the #1 slot. First, most of these teams didn't have to seriously evaluate Reggie versus other players. And second, other higher-picking teams aren't going to give away too much valid information about their preferences to the press.

An extreme example - if the NFL had a lottery for the #1 pick, and each team had to submit their #1 pick prior to the lottery selection, I think there would have been a lot less then 27-28 teams picking Reggie Bush.

Kaiser Toro
11-05-2006, 11:41 AM
Salisbury just goes with the flow. He jumps on the bandwaggon of the popular player or team. A trained monkey can do his job.

Darwin 1 - Creation 0.

gtexan02
11-05-2006, 11:52 AM
Don't forget, here are some nice premade excuses ESPN can use after another poor outing by Bush:

1) Defenses were keying on him, opening up big plays for other offensive guys
2) Bush's value as a decoy outweighs any immediate impact he'd be having right now
3) Bush just isn'g getting enough carries behind Deuce
4) His total yardage was impressive today, if you count the offensive production of every other player on the team as his "total yardage" since he helped them receive it

Anyway, I posted tihs a while ago on another mb. I guess it makes sense now:

Reggie Bush has 70 rushes for 212 yards. Thats a whopping 3.0 yards per carry. How many TDs? Zero. This is behind the exact same line that has let McCallister rush for over 4.7 yards per carry (and 4 TDs!). And don't say its because Bush isn't getting carries, because Deuece only has 26 more carries (over 7 games thats less than 4 per game more than Bush is getting).

Bush is a league leader in receptions, but his yards per reception is pretty embarassing. While catching 42 balls, he's only amassed 290 yards receiving. Compare this to Colston ( 33 receptions, 577 yards, 17.5 ypc, 6 tds) or Horn (30 receptions, 507 yards, 16.9 ypc, 3 tds) or even ANOTHER slot guy, Henderson (8 receptions, 107 yards, 13.8 ypc, 1 td) production on the same team. And how many receiving tds has Bush managed catching the ball 42 times? Again, 0...

He has also fumbled and lost the ball twice, despite ESPN crediting the last one to Brees. He has also thrown for an interception.

So in retrospect, Bush has rushed the ball 70 times, received the ball out of the slot 42 times, and amassed a total of 512 yards, with ZERO touchdowns. He's had the ball 112 times, and never scored...

People can claim all they want that defenses are keying on him, that he is a special athelete just waiting to bust out, that the Texans are stupid for passing on him, but the fact is none of that is true. After 8 weeks defenses would not be keying on him so much with no production. Defenses key on LT, LJ, Tiki all the time and they still put up huge numbers. Not Bush. Is he a special athelete? Yep, he's a great athlete. He just hasn't learned that his dancing and outside running won't work in the NFL, and even when he does, his style of running won't work between the tackles.

WALI LUNDY, meanwhile, has run 54 times for 266 yards, averaging 4.9 ypc with more TDs than Bush behind a much worse line. Bush probably would've done even worse in Houston. We dont' force nearly as many punts....


PS: I was a HUGE Bush supporter. Pretty shocked to see this so far

Wolf
11-05-2006, 01:27 PM
going late in 2nd quarter

bush 5 rushes -5 yards
3 passes 19 yards.


being I posted this ..he'll light it up now. (last time I did he ran a punt back)

kastofsna
11-05-2006, 01:32 PM
that punt return wasn't really "lighting it up." but regardless...he's been useless in the running game today. a few sweeps and tosses that went nowhere. that's just DUMB to even try that against the bucs defense.

bah007
11-05-2006, 01:33 PM
that punt return wasn't really "lighting it up." but regardless...he's been useless in the running game today. a few sweeps and tosses that went nowhere. that's just DUMB to even try that against the bucs defense.

No kidding.

They arent playing well this year but their defense is one of the fastest in the league.

bah007
11-05-2006, 02:27 PM
Through 3 quarters:

Bush has 14 touches for 37 yds (including returns).

I wonder how ESPN will spin this.

kastofsna
11-05-2006, 02:35 PM
they'll say he's been an amazing decoy for the rest of the team.

Tulip
11-05-2006, 03:11 PM
they'll say he's been an amazing decoy for the rest of the team.

That decoy excuse is a pretty inventive escape hatch. I think the fans are starting to catch on, though, so they need to figure out a new excuse soon.

TexasJedi
11-05-2006, 03:14 PM
No it was Mortensen. He was sure he would be putting up TD's. Oops.

Houston_Fanatic
11-05-2006, 03:20 PM
I just checked his stats for today........

11 carries for MINUS 5 yards....

:rofl:

Houston_Fanatic
11-05-2006, 03:22 PM
And he is on a team that is winning.......

If we had drafted him, we would have to endure how it is THE REST OF THE TEAM'S FAULT that he isn't living up to the hype.

Koolaid Time
11-05-2006, 03:24 PM
I just checked his stats for today........

11 carries for MINUS 5 yards....

:rofl:

Against Tampa Bay no less!

Reggie isn't pulling his weight or his paycheck

Tulip
11-05-2006, 03:35 PM
And he is on a team that is winning.......

If we had drafted him, we would have to endure how it is THE REST OF THE TEAM'S FAULT that he isn't living up to the hype.

Priceless. Great post.

Rex King
11-05-2006, 03:43 PM
Good question, how is Da Brick doing? I guess we will find out first hand in a few weeks.

According to Jets fans, he's has struggled playing against some good DE's but has shown great athleticism and is getting better (their rookie C Nick Mangold has been a stud). According to STATS, he's given up 5 sacks and a holding penalty.

Marcus McNeill has been the best rookie OT by far. But then while you could say that Addai and Maroney have been far more impressive than Bush, one could also argue that Hali, Anderson, and Dumervile have been as good or better than Mario, better surrounding cast notwithstanding. It's too early. We'll see in a couple of years.

But yeah, Salisbury Steak is a talking monkey.

TexansSeminole
11-05-2006, 03:48 PM
[QUOTE=Rex King;490371one could also argue that Hali, Anderson, and Dumervile have been as good or better than Mario, better surrounding cast notwithstanding.[/QUOTE]

Well, Dumerville doesn't have as many tackles...he has just been a sack guy...now Anderson you could def make that argument.

Wolf
11-05-2006, 04:30 PM
I just checked his stats for today........

11 carries for MINUS 5 yards....

:rofl:

yep, if his production took half the bashing that Carr does....
or even Mario's bashing.....

Hottoddie
11-05-2006, 04:30 PM
I wonder how ESPN will spin this.

"Reggie carries Saints to another victory." :shocked

bah007
11-05-2006, 04:35 PM
"Reggie carries Saints to another victory." :shocked

ESPN:

REGGIE BUSH CARRIES SAINTS TO ANOTHER VICTORY

Bush returns 2 punts for 20 yds, catches 4 passes, and runs the ball 11 times to lead the Saints to a victory. On a sidenote, QB Drew Brees threw for 314 yds and 3 TDs with no INTs.

BattleRedRaider
11-05-2006, 04:46 PM
From ESPN's NFL recap of the Saints game:

"Despite playing without receiver Joe Horn, and with Bush at less than full strength because of a sore ankle, the Saints (6-2) had more than enough firepower to finish a sweep of struggling NFC South rival Tampa Bay (2-6) and rookie quarterback Bruce Gradkowski."

Dr. Toro
11-05-2006, 04:48 PM
Obviously none of us know what kind of NFL career Bush will ultimately have,
though it's clear that he's off to something less than an auspicious start.
But what's really puzzling was the very large consensus of opinion reached
by the experts as to who was the clear #1 choice back in April ? There were
polls taken where all but 4 or 5 teams had Bush rated above all others.
How can the experts be so wrong if it actually turns out that Bush is not even among the top 2 or 3 running backs taken back in Aprils Draft, let alone among all players ? Can anybody else even remember when a single player who was not a QB was such a popular choice prior to a Draft ?

I imagine that he's last in YPC among runners who qualify, and he's not even in the top 5 among rookies. Maroney, Lundy, Drew, Williams, Addai, and Leon Washington all look like better running backs.

I've said it a bunch of times, but he'll eventually be a full time WR. He could be a 1000 yd. 10 TD guy, but his running is brutal right now. He is a bad runner, he doesn't know how to hit the hole, and he's missing cutback lanes. He's dancing twice as much as he did in college.

Rex King
11-05-2006, 04:56 PM
I've said it a bunch of times, but he'll eventually be a full time WR.
Agree. I don't know who to give credit to, but someone noted his body type around the time of the draft. He took off his shirt and was impressively cut up top, but this distracted from the fact that he has skinny receiver's legs. He's just not built like a RB.

Ole Miss Texan
11-05-2006, 05:36 PM
From ESPN's NFL recap of the Saints game:

"Despite playing without receiver Joe Horn, and with Bush at less than full strength because of a sore ankle, the Saints (6-2) had more than enough firepower to finish a sweep of struggling NFC South rival Tampa Bay (2-6) and rookie quarterback Bruce Gradkowski."

But remember if we had drafted reggie, we would have been 6-2 also! :listening

awtysst
11-05-2006, 07:20 PM
Edit

awtysst
11-05-2006, 07:22 PM
I might get bashed for this but I dont care.

DE Mario Williams had more rushing yards then RB Superstud Reggie Bush!

thunderkyss
11-05-2006, 07:34 PM
Marcus McNeill has been the best rookie OT by far. But then while you could say that Addai and Maroney have been far more impressive than Bush, one could also argue that Hali, Anderson, and Dumervile have been as good or better than Mario, better surrounding cast notwithstanding. It's too early. We'll see in a couple of years.


I don't know, so I'm just asking.... not saying anything.

But, are they leading their team in Sacks and tackles on the defensive line??

Seriously, Mario is our first piece.... and he'd be doing as well as those guys, if he wasn't the man on Defense.

In your opinion, do you think those guys would be doing as well as Mario is if they were here??

Maddict5
11-05-2006, 08:03 PM
Marcus McNeill has been the best rookie OT by far. But then while you could say that Addai and Maroney have been far more impressive than Bush, one could also argue that Hali, Anderson, and Dumervile have been as good or better than Mario, better surrounding cast notwithstanding. It's too early. We'll see in a couple of years.

But yeah, Salisbury Steak is a talking monkey.

thats the difference- no1 can say mario hasnt performed

Goldeagle
11-05-2006, 10:18 PM
I just want to add that Salsbury, Collingworthless and JAWS are the worst people who get to speak about the NFL.

bah007
11-05-2006, 10:22 PM
I just want to add that Salsbury, Collingworthless and JAWS are the worst people who get to speak about the NFL.

That is because they were all skill position players in the NFL.

Salsbury & Jaws were QBs & Collingsworgh was a WR.

They are the kind of guys who think that QBs need even more protection by the refs then they are gettin this year.

By the way, you just flat-out cannot trust ESPN's coverage on Bush. They have invested their reputation in this kid & are going to refuse to say anything bad about him.

V Man
11-05-2006, 10:43 PM
Reggie Sucks!!!

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m44/whumber/white_reggie.jpg Nope...not THAT one!
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m44/whumber/act_reggie_miller.jpg Not THIS one either!
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m44/whumber/Jackson_Reggie_5.jpg This Reggie doesn't suck!
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m44/whumber/reggie-bush-smiling.jpg This IS the one that SUCKS!!!

Too funny, would give you some positive rep, but I must spread it around more first.

Texans_Chick
11-06-2006, 08:43 AM
Reggie is the "Overpaid Player of the Week"

link (http://overpaid-nfl-players.aolsportsblog.com/2006/11/06/overpaid-player-of-the-week-reggie-bush/)

Seņor Stan
11-06-2006, 08:49 AM
The Texans passed on the next Barry Sanders, how dumb.. are we? I say as dumb as we can get, to have the better player. :cool:

Barry Sanders had more yards rushing today than Reggie did.

gtexan02
11-06-2006, 09:04 AM
Comparing Kijana Carter and Bush:
Both average less than 3 ypc
Both were highly touted 1st round RBs
Carter had 8 TDs his rookie year compared to Bush's 0...

Chicagotexan1
11-06-2006, 09:24 AM
I thought PijamaParty blew out his knee on his very first Pre-season carry and was out for the year?

jerek
11-06-2006, 09:25 AM
What's particularly hilarious about this is there were a handful of us here (I remember myself, Coach C, and MorKnolle specifically) that were predicting this very thing months ago before the draft. We talked about Reggie's inability to make decisive cuts, run physically or between the tackles, and we stated that his speed would appear much more mortal in the NFL. Not surprisingly, I don't see the literally hundreds of posters that defended Reggie's honor as The Greatest Player Ever littering this thread with their shortsighted tripe this time around. Maybe it really is finally starting to sink in.

Hey, then again, 53M for an increasingly less effective decoy is great math for some.

bah007
11-06-2006, 10:47 AM
I liked the guy who said that Reggie wasnt getting touches cuz he was staying in to block.

Thats funny.

Reggie misses more blocks than Randy Moss & even when he hits his guy, gettin run over doesnt really count as blocking.

thunderkyss
11-06-2006, 10:52 AM
I liked the guy who said that Reggie wasnt getting touches cuz he was staying in to block.

Thats funny.

Reggie misses more blocks than Randy Moss & even when he hits his guy, gettin run over doesnt really count as blocking.

I thought it was funny how guys were talking about Reggie before the draft saying he was a good blocker in the backfield, and he'd be better than DD.

Granted DD ain't the best at picking up a blitz, but blocking college boys ain't the same as keeping RayRay off your QB.

real
11-06-2006, 11:03 AM
I think he's going to be fine......

kastofsna
11-06-2006, 11:12 AM
I thought it was funny how guys were talking about Reggie before the draft saying he was a good blocker in the backfield, and he'd be better than DD.
who in the world said that? pretty much any sack leinart took was because of bush or lendale white whiffing.

bah007
11-06-2006, 11:20 AM
who in the world said that? pretty much any sack leinart took was because of bush or lendale white whiffing.

I dont think anyone said he could block like DD but ESPN was saying that he could do everything. Run, block, catch, return, jump over buildings in a single bound.

Double Barrel
11-06-2006, 11:58 AM
I think he's going to be fine......

I do, too. Maybe not able to live up to the massive hype machine, but I think he's suffering from what most rookies go through: NFL shock.

I was never a Bush lover, but I don't hate the guy, either. He's just another player to me. But I'd wait a while before calling dude a 'bust'.

I am glad that we did not pick him, though.

jerek
11-06-2006, 02:16 PM
I do, too. Maybe not able to live up to the massive hype machine, but I think he's suffering from what most rookies go through: NFL shock.

I was never a Bush lover, but I don't hate the guy, either. He's just another player to me. But I'd wait a while before calling dude a 'bust'.

I am glad that we did not pick him, though.

"Bust" is probably too strong. I think eventually he'll settle into a Brian Westbrook esque role. There's nothing wrong with that, but I don't think he'll ever achieve half of what some of the talking heads were ascribing to him throughout this entire year.

It's just funny to see the hype machine beginning to swing in the other direction now.

edo783
11-06-2006, 04:15 PM
gettin run over doesnt really count as blocking.

He doesn't even make a decent speed bumb on the way to the QB.

ledzeppelin229
11-06-2006, 04:27 PM
He doesn't even make a decent speed bump on the way to the QB.

If Bush would add about 150 lbs onto his frame then I'm sure Victor Riley could give him some great video lessons.

mexican_texan
11-06-2006, 04:30 PM
ESPN can have windows of intelligence. Rarely, one guy would say that Reggie may be the next Gale Salyers, but he would do nothing to help out the horrendous line in Houston.

GuerillaBlack
11-06-2006, 04:44 PM
Jaws is an ***** on PTI. He said Reggie is still the man, and that no one should be worried about his low rushing yards. He then said Reggie is great in the Saints' passing game. Yeah right Jaws, a lot of receptions, but low YAC's don't make up for anything.

Blu
11-06-2006, 04:47 PM
Reggie..aka the "Golden Decoy"


:hunter: http://www.disneyanaexchange.com/Photobin/mkt%20zzf%20golden%20birthday%20donald%20duck%20by %20marc%20delle%20limited%2060.jpg :shoot: :shoot:

Wolf
11-06-2006, 06:16 PM
Barry Sanders had more yards rushing today than Reggie did.

that is way too funny

dtran04
11-06-2006, 11:54 PM
Anyone see the short segment on ESPN? It was Sean Salisbury claiming that Bush will score a receiving and rushing TD in the same game. It was set up like some political ad. Pretty stupid...

TexanSam
11-07-2006, 12:03 AM
Anyone see the short segment on ESPN? It was Sean Salisbury claiming that Bush will score a receiving and rushing TD in the same game. It was set up like some political ad. Pretty stupid...

Was this before the game or was this a prediction on next weeks game?

I wanted Reggie Bush before the draft. I wasn't angry when we took Mario Williams, but I was disappointed. So far, it looks like we made the wiser choice. Now Reggie Bush may still be a good player in the league, but his start isn't stellar. I see him being a Brian Westbrook type player, just like someone else mentioned. That's not a bad thing, but nobody thinks of Brian Westbrook as a top talent in this league. Out of the the 3 top rookies in the draft so far, we've had the most success. I wonder if ESPN ever predicted that?

TexansSeminole
11-07-2006, 01:41 AM
Anyone see the short segment on ESPN? It was Sean Salisbury claiming that Bush will score a receiving and rushing TD in the same game. It was set up like some political ad. Pretty stupid...

I saw it, in black in white. What is this? He is like, "I am here to assure you that Reggie Bush WILL have a good second have of the season" with music player. OOOOOOK? These guys are way too concerned with highlights. When it comes down to winning games and how teams came away with the win, you've got to look for Boomer and TJ. Nobody else on ESPN talks about NFL FOOTBALL, just highlights. That's why Boomer says "from the guys who do it best" on the ESPN Blitz commercials, because they are.

V Man
11-07-2006, 08:24 AM
On Zabin's show this morning, Chris Landry said the reason the Saints offense is soooo successful this year is because that all the teams they are playing are focusing on Bush and this allows them to be successful. :brickwall

I guess Drew, Horn, and Duece weren't great players before Bush.

kastofsna
11-07-2006, 08:47 AM
defenses must be really really stupid, i guess. "hey let's focus all our energy on the rookie who's never done anything to deserve all of this attention, in fact he's pretty much sucked so far, but what the hey, KEEP AN EYE ON HIM!!!"

V Man
11-07-2006, 08:55 AM
defenses must be really really stupid, i guess. "hey let's focus all our energy on the rookie who's never done anything to deserve all of this attention, in fact he's pretty much sucked so far, but what the hey, KEEP AN EYE ON HIM!!!"

You are so right. When I heard Landry say that all I could think was here is another talking head still trying to cover his behind.

Tale Gator
11-07-2006, 09:22 AM
I'm not sure why they keep giving him so many carries at this point -- he needs to line up in the slot.

Mr teX
11-07-2006, 09:31 AM
I told a friend at work well before the draft, but after i had watched UT basically shut him down in the National Championship that his style of running won't cut it in our system & the NFL b/c he's too zig zag like & relies too much on his speed. At this level, everyone has speed so that is pretty much negated.

the wonger need food
11-07-2006, 09:37 AM
9 weeks into the regular season and The Decoy is maybe the 6th best RB in this rookie class.

1) Laurence Maroney
2) Leon Washington
3) Joseph Addai
4) Jerious Norwood
5) Wali Lundy
6) The Decoy
7) DeAngelo Williams (probably better than Regg, but doesn't have enough "touches" to show it yet)

infantrycak
11-07-2006, 09:40 AM
but after i had watched UT basically shut him down in the National Championship

Huh? When did 82 yds rushing and a TD plus 95 yds receiving become shut down?

kastofsna
11-07-2006, 09:41 AM
deangelo williams is the best RB from this class. he'll get more touches to prove it.

also, you forgot maurice jones-drew.

the wonger need food
11-07-2006, 09:43 AM
deangelo williams is the best RB from this class. he'll get more touches to prove it.

also, you forgot maurice jones-drew.

Agreed. And I forgot about Drew.

TexansLucky13
11-07-2006, 09:44 AM
9 weeks into the regular season and The Decoy is maybe the 6th best RB in this rookie class.

1) Laurence Maroney
2) Leon Washington
3) Joseph Addai
4) Jerious Norwood
5) Wali Lundy
6) The Decoy
7) DeAngelo Williams (probably better than Regg, but doesn't have enough "touches" to show it yet)

That also doesn't account for all the turnovers he caused that let the other team score. Happened twice in the Ravens game, once before that. Someday he will learn how to hold that ball, and maybe the Saints coaching staff will realize that Reggie isn't a QB.

Norwood is ahead of him? Wow... just, wow....

jerek
11-07-2006, 09:46 AM
deangelo williams is the best RB from this class. he'll get more touches to prove it.

also, you forgot maurice jones-drew.

I think DeAngelo will be the best though Maroney is certainly very good as well. We almost got him DeAngelo in the draft via trade-up that fell apart at the last second thanks to the Bills. In retrospect, Daniels + Ryans was a great tradeoff and one I'm happy with, but DeAngelo would have been awesome in our lineup.

the wonger need food
11-07-2006, 09:51 AM
Norwood is ahead of him? Wow... just, wow....

Norwood has 355 yards on 6.8 per carry with 3 runs over 20 and 1 TD. I would say that Norwood is ahead of him.

the wonger need food
11-07-2006, 09:53 AM
Revised list...

1) Laurence Maroney
2) Leon Washington
3) Joseph Addai
4) Maurice Drew
5) Jerious Norwood
6) Wali Lundy
7) The Decoy
8) DeAngelo Williams (probably better than Regg, but doesn't have enough "touches" to show it yet)

TexansLucky13
11-07-2006, 09:54 AM
Norwood has 355 yards on 6.8 per carry with 3 runs over 20 and 1 TD. I would say that Norwood is ahead of him.

I'm just amazed.

Also, I am beginning to doubt very much the idea that the Saints are winning because they "plan around" Reggie Bush. The fact is that Payton is doing an awesome job over there with one of the highest paid offenses. That defense is what amazes me, though.

Props to Payton but Reggie really has had no effect on that team other than sales.

kastofsna
11-07-2006, 11:32 AM
you'd think that when the rest of the offense gets shutdown somewhat, that it would be because the defense stopped targeting on bush. like in the ravens and panthers games. bush must've had great numbers there, right?

Sarg01
11-07-2006, 12:48 PM
That's not fair...... Lundy has only played in 4 games. He wasn't even active for three games this season.

How can you compare his numbers to Reggies??

Favorably.

ledzeppelin229
11-07-2006, 04:00 PM
I think it's time for them to just start focusing more on his overall WR skills. Maybe he can be a lesser version of Steve Smith, he has the physical abilities (not sure about the hands) if he can become a polished player. He could still run a little out of the backfield but I think if he doesn't start running the way the NFL demands, he's going to be looking at a position change.

run-david-run
11-07-2006, 07:57 PM
I dont think anyone said he could block like DD but ESPN was saying that he could do everything. Run, block, catch, return, jump over buildings in a single bound.

I distinctly remeber people saying he was a significantly better blocker then DD, who at the time was getting a lot of heat for his lack of blocking skills.

run-david-run
11-07-2006, 08:02 PM
I told a friend at work well before the draft, but after i had watched UT basically shut him down in the National Championship that his style of running won't cut it in our system & the NFL b/c he's too zig zag like & relies too much on his speed. At this level, everyone has speed so that is pretty much negated.
There were a few of us who saw the light in regards to Reggie and his game translating to the NFL. People kept bringing up stuff like "his average TD was 30 yards" without realising that stuff dosnt happen in the NFL. LT in his career has 4 TD runs of 50 yards or more, and he is regarded as the best running back in football. Being able to get 4 yards on 80% of your carries is wayyy more significant then getting 50 yards or more on 2% of your carries.

bah007
11-07-2006, 08:14 PM
I distinctly remeber people saying he was a significantly better blocker then DD, who at the time was getting a lot of heat for his lack of blocking skills.

I meant nobody in this thread.

domedog316
11-07-2006, 08:45 PM
Speaking of which.... how many teams in the top 5 aren't starting their first round picks??

That tells you something about the talent level of the N.O. Saints... & how much of a need he filled.

If he'd have come to Houston, Tennessee, NYJ, SF, GB, he'd have had an opportunity to start by now...... he would have at least competed for the job in the preseason.

But not so with N.O. They knew who their starting RB was going to be well before the draft.

Of course..... Duece may not have ran as well as he has if he wasn't worried about Reggie stealing his job.

I am glad that someone gets it. Even us Saints fans knew the hype was too much. Remember, we have been in the same division as the other NFL hype machine Mike Vick.

As I said in another thread, I don't care if RB ever lives up to the unfair expectations placed on him. All I care about is winning.

Sometimes, I think that some Texan fans care more about Bush failing than thier own team winning just so the media will quit bashing them for taking Mario.

I like the Mario pick for you guys. It made sense. It's bad luck that Dom Davis (LSU GUY!) was hurt but it did lead you to discover a couple of other great backs. The Texans will be fine once Kubiak figures out how to make his players play as a team. (the way the Saints are now)

thunderkyss
11-07-2006, 08:48 PM
I dont think anyone said he could block like DD but ESPN was saying that he could do everything. Run, block, catch, return, jump over buildings in a single bound.

No, a lot of the people on this MB that wanted Reggie said he can block better than DD.

Wolf
11-07-2006, 08:49 PM
for me, I dont' wish Bush to fail.. for the league, I hope him and VY thrive.. along with Williams.. good for the league

just the hype was too much for my taste.. for me "once in a generation back" was Bo Jackson.. speed and power..

of course I also like Adrian Peterson as a back over Bush (too bad for AP injury)

bah007
11-07-2006, 08:50 PM
No, a lot of the people on this MB that wanted Reggie said he can block better than DD.

Oh my bad.

I wasnt a member on draft day.

I shouldnt speak of what I do not know.

GuerillaBlack
11-08-2006, 09:08 AM
http://nfl.com/news/story/9785655

Offensive Rookie of the Year: Marques Colston, receiver, New Orleans. It's amazing, but this little-known player from Hofstra has upstaged his ultra-hyped teammate, Reggie Bush, and other big-name rookies. His seven touchdown catches actually put him ahead of the likes of Marvin Harrison. Honorable mention: Bush; Joseph Addai, running back, Indianapolis; Laurence Maroney, running back, New England.

kastofsna
11-08-2006, 09:46 AM
Defensive MVP: Aaron Kampman, end, Green Bay. On pace to finish the season with nearly 20 sacks, he is the lone bright spot of the Packers defense. Honorable mention: Julius Peppers, end, Carolina; Adrian Peterson, linebacker, Seattle; Rashean Mathis, cornerback, Jacksonville

kampman?

thunderkyss
11-08-2006, 10:08 AM
Defensive MVP: Aaron Kampman, end, Green Bay. On pace to finish the season with nearly 20 sacks, he is the lone bright spot of the Packers defense.

kampman?

He is the lone bright spot considering the DL alone counts for 20 sacks so far this season, & he plays opposite KGB, and Corners like Al Harris, and Charles Woodson..........

but other than that, he is the lone bright spot of that defense.

bah007
11-08-2006, 11:02 AM
He is the lone bright spot considering the DL alone counts for 20 sacks so far this season, & he plays opposite KBG, and Corners like Al Harris, and Charles Woodson..........

but other than that, he is the lone bright spot of that defense.

Is there a more overrated CB these days than Charles Woodson?

Texas Lobo
11-08-2006, 11:19 AM
I not sure why anyone would prediect that any collage player will take the nfl by storm. You never know how a collage player will adjust to the nfl. Some do, some dont. I think its too early to say how Bush will pan out. Is he going to be the next Barry Sanders? I don't believe so, but he may turn out to be a good player in his own right. I wish him the best of luck (except against the Texans).

awtysst
11-08-2006, 11:24 AM
Is there a more overrated CB these days than Charles Woodson?

Phillip Buchanon

bah007
11-08-2006, 11:27 AM
Phillip Buchanon

I have always thought that Buchanon sucked & he was overrated.

But now everyone knows he sucks so I dont think he is still overrated.

kastofsna
11-08-2006, 12:24 PM
Is there a more overrated CB these days than Charles Woodson?
deangelo hall. at least woodson can cover someone from time to time.

bah007
11-08-2006, 10:33 PM
deangelo hall. at least woodson can cover someone from time to time.

No way.

DeAngelo Hall is overrated. But he makes up for his lapses in coverage by being the FASTEST PLAYER IN THE NFL.

He is also a pretty good ballhawk.

He may be overrated, but the most overrated CB in football...

I dont think so.

kastofsna
11-08-2006, 11:19 PM
well considering that everytime i hear his name i hear "best CB in the league" and "pro bowler" and "shutdown corner" along with it, that makes him the most overrated CB in the league. because he sucks.

JDizzle
11-09-2006, 09:53 AM
And he's an A-hole to boot.

run-david-run
11-09-2006, 03:01 PM
deangelo hall. at least woodson can cover someone from time to time.

Are you serious? D-hall may not be Champ Bailey, but he is easily one of the top 10 in the league and has a knack for getting interceptions.

kastofsna
11-09-2006, 03:13 PM
i'd love to know why you think that. sure he gets interceptions, i'll give him that. that mostly has to do with his recovery speed. he gets beat, the QB throws the ball to his man, he catches up to it and snatches it away. good for him. doesn't work too often though. especially when facing a competent QB/WR tandem. he gets smoked EVERYtime there.

Lucky
11-09-2006, 03:24 PM
From an ESPN chat with KC Joyner (http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=13577):

Jason, Conroe TX: What do you think has been Reggie Bush's problem running the ball? How can he fix it.

SportsNation KC Joyner: (4:06 PM ET ) It's just one man's impression but I think that Bush doesn't want the contact. NFL teams are committed to pounding him when he gets the ball and he hasn't adjusted to this. If he doesn't, all he'll end up being is a 3rd down back.

That's really the best explanation I've seen as to why Bush is struggling.

thunderkyss
11-09-2006, 03:55 PM
i'd love to know why you think that. sure he gets interceptions, i'll give him that. that mostly has to do with his recovery speed. he gets beat, the QB throws the ball to his man, he catches up to it and snatches it away. good for him. doesn't work too often though. especially when facing a competent QB/WR tandem. he gets smoked EVERYtime there.

Wow....... that sounds a lot like what they said about Dione....

real
11-09-2006, 04:00 PM
From a Saints Board...Looks like everyone thinks the media is "against them".... (http://boards.espn.go.com/boards/mb/mb?sport=nfl&id=nor&tid=153200&lid=5)


About the monday night game vs-atl and i quote,,The saints do not have a great defence they r 2-0 but some think its a soft 2-0 with the schedule they played.But they got to be able to hit u in the mouth on defence,this is a defence that is a little more towards a tripple A style then NFL..DUDE IS A HATER.And lastnight on primetime when merile hoge picked the saints to go to the superbowl salisbury said the panthers r gona come back an win the division so he's not worried about the saints.......I hate that dude and he has said some other crap about the saints to.............do yall hate that dude to let me no..GO SAINTS ALL THE WAY..WHO DAT WHO DAT WHO DAT SAY THEY GONA BEAT THEM SAINTS.