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Rightnow
11-02-2006, 09:35 AM
I’ve been a Carr supporter from day one. I backed him up this year, and seen him improve, but this Sunday may be the end of the line for him here in Houston. The Giants brutalized the Cowboys, in Dallas, and on MNF. They have a great run blocking defense, superb pass rush and a great running game. If they get out to an early lead, Carr will have to throw, and they will pin their ears back and get him. Once again our offensive line is questionable, though this time because of injuries.

I listened to every response from Carr that I could get a hold of to see where he is at mentally. I think last week rattled him too much. He sounded terribly unsure of himself and trying to convince himself to put it behind him and do better. I think he will be ineffective, because he will be worried about coughing up the ball and not throwing picks. So worried, that it makes him timid and he will take extra sacks. This game, on the road, against a tough team will be defining moment in his career. If he is benched again, which is very possible, his days in Houston are most certainly numbered.

I actually feel bad for the guy. I think he will give it 110% this Sunday, but it may not be enough and his career in Houston may soon be over.

I want the Texans to win too, so… Go Carr! Go Texans!!!

powerfuldragon
11-02-2006, 09:46 AM
This Sunday may be Carr’s last.

is that a threat?

HOU-TEX
11-02-2006, 09:48 AM
I’ve been a Carr supporter from day one. I backed him up this year, and seen him improve, but this Sunday may be the end of the line for him here in Houston. The Giants brutalized the Cowboys, in Dallas, and on MNF. They have a great run blocking defense, superb pass rush and a great running game. If they get out to an early lead, Carr will have to throw, and they will pin their ears back and get him. Once again our offensive line is questionable, though this time because of injuries.

I listened to every response from Carr that I could get a hold of to see where he is at mentally. I think last week rattled him too much. He sounded terribly unsure of himself and trying to convince himself to put it behind him and do better. I think he will be ineffective, because he will be worried about coughing up the ball and not throwing picks. So worried, that it makes him timid and he will take extra sacks. This game, on the road, against a tough team will be defining moment in his career. If he is benched again, which is very possible, his days in Houston are most certainly numbered.

I actually feel bad for the guy. I think he will give it 110% this Sunday, but it may not be enough and his career in Houston may soon be over.

I want the Texans to win too, so… Go Carr! Go Texans!!!

You might want to inform head coach Gary Kubiak of this. I don't think he knows it yet.:rolleyes:

thunderkyss
11-02-2006, 09:48 AM
I’ve been a Carr supporter from day one. I backed him up this year, and seen him improve, but this Sunday may be the end of the line for him here in Houston. The Giants brutalized the Cowboys, in Dallas, and on MNF. They have a great run blocking defense, superb pass rush and a great running game. If they get out to an early lead, Carr will have to throw, and they will pin their ears back and get him. Once again our offensive line is questionable, though this time because of injuries.


I want the Texans to win too, so… Go Carr! Go Texans!!!

David Carr is our QB for the remainder of this year, if not further. I don't know how much clearer Kubiak can be about that.

It doesn't matter what the Giants do, as long as Carr does what Kubiak tells him to do, he is our starter.

Dallas OL is a big weakness they did not want to see. Parcells knows more than anyone that if you're going to ride Bledsoe to the Superbowl, then QB protection is paramount. the Giants wrecking that line isn't as impressive to me as it is to most people.

I feel the same way about Dallas run game.... until they consistently put up good rushing numbers against the Panthers, The Ravens, the Broncos, etc.... I won't believe that JJ is the best rusher in the league........ I won't believe he is even close.

He's gotten most of his yardage agains teams that give up lots of rushing yards.

nunusguy
11-02-2006, 09:50 AM
Excellent post ! I gotta agree with you, because going to NY to play the
Giants is just bad timing for DCs "comeback game".
It would really help Carr if he had a less formidable defense to go up against
this Sunday. But I'm not sure about playing away ?
The way things are for him now, if he screws-up in Reliant, local fans would probably boo him mercilessly. In NY they will cheer if he makes a mistake.
But this has gotta be tough for Dave. You know his psyche has already gotta be traumatized from this whole ordeal.
I dunno, I don't have any idea what's gonna happen Sunday ? But it might not be very pretty.

real
11-02-2006, 10:00 AM
You know his psyche has already gotta be traumatized from this whole ordeal.


I think that's a little extreme....

kingh99
11-02-2006, 10:07 AM
I’ve been a Carr supporter from day one. I backed him up this year, and seen him improve, but this Sunday may be the end of the line for him here in Houston. The Giants brutalized the Cowboys, in Dallas, and on MNF. They have a great run blocking defense, superb pass rush and a great running game. If they get out to an early lead, Carr will have to throw, and they will pin their ears back and get him. Once again our offensive line is questionable, though this time because of injuries.

I listened to every response from Carr that I could get a hold of to see where he is at mentally. I think last week rattled him too much. He sounded terribly unsure of himself and trying to convince himself to put it behind him and do better. I think he will be ineffective, because he will be worried about coughing up the ball and not throwing picks. So worried, that it makes him timid and he will take extra sacks. This game, on the road, against a tough team will be defining moment in his career. If he is benched again, which is very possible, his days in Houston are most certainly numbered.

I actually feel bad for the guy. I think he will give it 110% this Sunday, but it may not be enough and his career in Houston may soon be over.

I want the Texans to win too, so… Go Carr! Go Texans!!!


I don't feel sorry for him. Produce or else. Enough coddling. We pay money to get fired up about watching a local team win for the city. I think his dad ruined him. Made him think too much out there.

HOU-TEX
11-02-2006, 10:12 AM
I don't feel sorry for him. Produce or else. Enough coddling. We pay money to get fired up about watching a local team win for the city. I think his dad ruined him. Made him think too much out there.

LOL! Now we're blaming his dad? Did you forget the :sarcasm: after that?:yikes:

hot pickle
11-02-2006, 10:14 AM
everybody on this board is doubting "ARE" team, i got faith that there is a chance that we can win, all im gonna say at this point is "ANY GIVEN SUNDAY"

GO TEXANS :redtowel:

SESupergenius
11-02-2006, 10:19 AM
You know, I kinda agree here that he may be rattled. It really shouldn't matter that it's the "Giants" as most teams in this league are pretty good and have good defenses. You really can't say "well, it's the Giants after all, they are good." No, we just can't have that. We need to beat teams no matter what. Carr has a lot of good weapons and even though we don't have a great offensive line, they are playing beyond themselves and their talent. I give Rosenfels as much credit for his comeback as Carr did the second half of the Indy game, so to me there isn't much to go on. But it is hugely important that Carr have a good game and not make mental mistakes.

JDizzle
11-02-2006, 10:22 AM
David Carr is officially on notice.

http://a330.g.akamai.net/7/330/2540/20051019201906/www.variety.com/graphics/photos/reviewc/rcolbertshow.jpg

Texanfan4ever
11-02-2006, 10:27 AM
First of all, benching him might have traumatized him for the moment, but it will only make a guy like him better. He is a fighter, and he totally respects Kubiak, and Kubiak respects him, and it will help him.

Second, Kubiak isn't going to "fire" Carr because the Giants are a great team and get to him. And if they do, and he puts in Sage, they will get to him too. I don't feel we have a mature enough team that can protect any qb right now against the Giants the way they have been playing. But stranger things have happened. I've seen them many times in past years come together when the odds were totally against it and that was with capers, So, with Kubiak, the skies the limit.

Whether anyone likes it or not, Carr is here for the season for sure. He might trade them in and out, but he is not taking his job away from him. He has said so.

I watched the weather this morning and as of today it is supposed to be snowing in New York this weekend. Uhhhh....Could it get any worse?

OrangeCountyTexansFan
11-02-2006, 10:40 AM
Let's not get too carried away. Playing a team as well balanced as the Giants is a great game for Carr to come back and prove his worth to the team. If he was coming back against scrubs like the Buffalo Bills this year, he would have a great game maybe, but it wouldn't prove that he is buckeled down enough to play with the Big Boys.
Coming back against New York, in New York, has him having to show his mettle against the big boys right away, which I think is better than getting overconfident against a sub-par team.
If Carr can play well against the Giants, win or lose, then he will have proven that he needs to remain the starter and the QB to build our offense around. Our offense has gone downhill since the placement of Davis on the IR. I think Carr was counting on Davis to be there this year, and still has not compensated for that. Just my :twocents: .

Rightnow
11-02-2006, 10:45 AM
Let's not get too carried away. Playing a team as well balanced as the Giants is a great game for Carr to come back and prove his worth to the team. If he was coming back against scrubs like the Buffalo Bills this year, he would have a great game maybe, but it wouldn't prove that he is buckeled down enough to play with the Big Boys.
Coming back against New York, in New York, has him having to show his mettle against the big boys right away, which I think is better than getting overconfident against a sub-par team.
If Carr can play well against the Giants, win or lose, then he will have proven that he needs to remain the starter and the QB to build our offense around. Our offense has gone downhill since the placement of Davis on the IR. I think Carr was counting on Davis to be there this year, and still has not compensated for that. Just my :twocents: .

Yes. This is the perfect test for Carr. If he shines in NY, he is most likely the QB of the future for the Texans. If he falls apart, he is most likely done.

Like I said, this game may be the biggest of Carr's professional career, and a defining moment.

Double Barrel
11-02-2006, 10:47 AM
David Carr is our QB for the remainder of this year, if not further. I don't know how much clearer Kubiak can be about that.

It doesn't matter what the Giants do, as long as Carr does what Kubiak tells him to do, he is our starter.

I agree. Kubiak will start Carr for the rest of the season to evaluate what he has in this QB. The future of Kubiak's plans for this team depend on his confidence in the QB position, and he has to know what Carr is all about before this season is over.

I think Carr is still on the hot seat for potential benching should his play go south during a game, but I will not be surprised if Carr starts every game this season in spite of his performances. This was never going to be a winning season, so Kubiak needs to use it for evaluating key positions on the team.

I can't even begin to predict what we'll see from Carr this weekend, although I think protecting the ball will be his top priority. The Giants will send it, so hope the rest of the offense steps up, protects the QB, and makes the plays they have to make.

TexansLucky13
11-02-2006, 10:51 AM
I don't foresee Carr having a great game one way or the other, just because of who we are playing. We just need to watch how he responds in critical situations. If we lose the game..... what did you expect? We will have to dissect his gameplay.

The only thing I am watching for is his ball control in the pocket. That is what everyone is concerned about. We know he can throw the deep ball. We know he can go through progression better than last year. We have seen improvement in many aspects of his game. The only concern is that the boy still doesn't know how to hold onto the ball and feel the pressure!

tsip
11-02-2006, 10:54 AM
I think that's a little extreme....

First, I agree with a lot of your posts, but I'm not too sure about this one-why? Since day one, for whatever reason, I've felt like Carr has been treated by the team like his 'feelings' are walking on 'egg shells.' IMO, this started when it became public that Capers had to explain to David why the Texans drafted Dave Ragone, so Carr would not get the 'wrong idea.'

Then, Kubiak benches Carr on Sunday, but turns around on Monday and almost 'trips' over himself to tell the whole world that Carr is the 'man,' aks the 'franchise.' JMO, but this Monday scenario kinda 'negated' the purpose/anticipated effect/outcome of benching Carr in the first place---almost like Gary was saying, "I'm sorry, David. I shouldn't have benched you...' ...what was up with that?

Like other posters have stated, I believe Sunday's game is going to be a tough one for David. For starters, this game is a 'huge' challenge for Kubiak to devise an 'effective' game plan that a) not only gives the Texans a chance to win but also b) puts Carr in a position to succeed. JMO, but I don't think there is any 'middle' ground in this game for David, where he doesn't play that 'great' or that 'bad.'

By Kubiak saying on many occasions-- how David 'goes,' the team 'goes-the fans should expect to see our 'franchise' QB play like one on Sunday. If not, IMO, we've got a 'credibility' problem and the fans are back to 'square one' wondering 'WHEN' Carr is going to 'finally' be the 'man.'

Tough as 'nails?' Physically, almost like 'superman' but--for Carr, it's his 'mental' game IMO that is the problem...:lightbulb: :brickwall :twocents:

GIANTD86
11-02-2006, 10:55 AM
Friendly NY Giant fan here. Who has the stronger arm? Carr or Sage? The reason I'm asking is the winds at the Meadowlands can be brutal and if your starter is a soft tosser, expect to see a lot of picks....if I remember correctly, everbody in Miami loved Sage...for a few games. In my opinion, drafting Mario ahead of one of the QB's could haunt your team for years...forget Reggie...he's going to end up being a bust. Here's to a clean and safe game...good luck to you guys/gals.:redtowel:

Texanfan4ever
11-02-2006, 10:55 AM
I don't foresee Carr having a great game one way or the other, just because of who we are playing. We just need to watch how he responds in critical situations. If we lose the game..... what did you expect? We will have to dissect his gameplay.

The only thing I am watching for is his ball control in the pocket. That is what everyone is concerned about. We know he can throw the deep ball. We know he can go through progression better than last year. We have seen improvement in many aspects of his game. The only concern is that the boy still doesn't know how to hold onto the ball and feel the pressure!

I think in New York that only God can help him! Maybe he can become Half God like Chad. LOL

TexansLucky13
11-02-2006, 11:00 AM
Friendly NY Giant fan here. Who has the stronger arm? Carr or Sage? The reason I'm asking is the winds at the Meadowlands can be brutal and if your starter is a soft tosser, expect to see a lot of picks....if I remember correctly, everbody in Miami loved Sage...for a few games. In my opinion, drafting Mario ahead of one of the QB's could haunt your team for years...forget Reggie...he's going to end up being a bust. Here's to a clean and safe game...good luck to you guys/gals.:redtowel:

David has a stronger arm.

I agree with your sentiments on Reggie, but I think we are good at QB for a while. Whether it be Sage or Carr I am confident in both of them. Drafting two QBs within five years with the 1st pick would be kinda bad, IMO.

GIANTD86
11-02-2006, 11:06 AM
David has a stronger arm.

I agree with your sentiments on Reggie, but I think we are good at QB for a while. Whether it be Sage or Carr I am confident in both of them. Drafting two QBs within five years with the 1st pick would be kinda bad, IMO.

Do you think David might need a change of scenery?? I think a lot of his confidence has been diminished by the pathetic play of your OL the last few years....I think you guys are going lose this weekend but give us one hell of a game....we will, however, CRUSH the Bears and the Cowpatties, in my opinion the Great State of Texas has only 1 team..the Texans....:cool:

Texan Asylum
11-02-2006, 11:07 AM
Friendly NY Giant fan here. Who has the stronger arm? Carr or Sage? The reason I'm asking is the winds at the Meadowlands can be brutal and if your starter is a soft tosser, expect to see a lot of picks....if I remember correctly, everbody in Miami loved Sage...for a few games. In my opinion, drafting Mario ahead of one of the QB's could haunt your team for years...forget Reggie...he's going to end up being a bust. Here's to a clean and safe game...good luck to you guys/gals.:redtowel:
Welcome aboard! Here's to a safe and successful game.:cool:

Texanfan4ever
11-02-2006, 11:10 AM
Do you think David might need a change of scenery?? I think a lot of his confidence has been diminished by the pathetic play of your OL the last few years....I think you guys are going lose this weekend but give us one hell of a game....we will, however, CRUSH the Bears and the Cowpatties, in my opinion the Great State of Texas has only 1 team..the Texans....:cool:

Thanks for that. That's how we feel too, but then we are a little biased. I hope ya'll smash the cowgirls....:redtowel:

texans_fan06
11-02-2006, 11:12 AM
I am a david carr fan have been since day one also but this paast weekend was horrble hopefully he wont have anything agaisnt rosenfels GO TEXANS!!!! GO DAVID CARR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Texan Asylum
11-02-2006, 11:21 AM
I personally think Carr will rebound from last week. Now whether it's out of spite, or invigored spirit, will determine if it's short lived or not.

TK_Gamer
11-02-2006, 11:24 AM
I'm more worried about whether kubiak plays it safe again before the half and then comes up with another excuse why he dint run a 2 minute offense and try to score AGAIN. I personally have my own oppinion about carr and kubiak, I think Kubiak allready decided to get rid of carr after this season. and every time he shows david he doesnt trust him to run the offense in key situations, he is eroding carr's chances of pulling out of this. why else would you not EVER run a 2 min drill and try to score before the half? he plain doesnt trust carr. sage is his insurance for next year so he can groom his shiny new high draft pick QB the way he wants. I think he had to keep Carr upfront to get the head coach job, but is planning as we speak how to replace him after the season ends badly. I'm sorry but kubiak is a contradiction waiting to happen. he says one thing and does the opposite time and time again.

Honoring Earl 34
11-02-2006, 11:31 AM
The way david Carr responds , is not just about one game . If he shows against the Giants and stinks against the Jaguars we're still in the same boat.

He was benched to teach him that he to is accountable for his mistakes . Gary Walker probably clutched his chest saying " good lord Carr is actually going to sit " .

Texan Asylum
11-02-2006, 12:21 PM
The way david Carr responds , is not just about one game . If he shows against the Giants and stinks against the Jaguars we're still in the same boat.

He was benched to teach him that he to is accountable for his mistakes . Gary Walker probably clutched his chest saying " good lord Carr is actually going to sit " .
Exactly!!!

Meloy
11-02-2006, 12:50 PM
I think Carr will have to make short strong passes (due to wind) to Moulds, TE's and backs. I would use AJ mostly as a decoy & hope Giants over react to that side opening up Moulds. I think a draw play could be very successful. I think field goals can keep us in game. I think we might make an interception or two. Win? Maybe.

DRAMA
11-02-2006, 01:18 PM
Do you think Carr is being 'semi - setup?'

Could this game against the Giants be the catalyst to make a change? I mean, if you do start Sage, then you have a QB controversy. If David starts and underperforms, you just simply make a move and there is no decision.

The problem IMHO is this - most people are stat people. They like stats, they like numbers, they like 'performances.' However, there are those out there who can 'see' things a little differently, they can 'see' momentum shift, they can 'feel' things turn, and they can just 'know' things in a game. It's very similar to p0rn0graph'y' - you can't define it but you know it when you see it.

Forget the TD's, forget the throws themselves, forget the completion %, forget Carr's performance, forget his turnovers - heck, look at Carr's best game as a pro, if you'd like. The thing is - you can 'see', 'sense' something better in the footwork, the reads, the 'feel' of the game with Sage. There's just something about seeing him 'feel' the game and 'read' the defense with an idea of what he's trying to accomplish - what the moment needs to be successful. I always get nervous when Carr drops back, throws, etc... I don't really know why - it's just a gut feel...and I like David.

When I say feel, I mean this - David can run a 4.7-ish 40 but doesn't seem to 'feel' when to run. He's got a good arm, but can't seem to 'feel' what to do when things break down, he's got good mobility but can't seem to get his feet to move the correct way...like a dancer.

Seeing Sage backpedal was a gorgeous thing to watch - a simple backpedal. Why? Because the pocket dictated a backpedal and Sage backpedaled. The pocket dictated WHAT to do and the QB DID that. I found that fascinating. Andre's slant dictated the ball be high, so the ball was thrown high. The pressure at the goalline dictated that the ball be thrown with only his arm and without a step, so that's what he did. Sage is NOT a great QB by the standard definition but he does what he's supposed to do - kinda like Brees.

In all honesty, maybe that's all we need. If Carr underperforms this week in NY, do you pull him for the next game? Not with anger or resentment but without passion or prejudice - do you make a move at that position for the betterment of the team despite the money or how you feel about Carr?

Just a thought....

Texan Asylum
11-02-2006, 01:27 PM
Do you think Carr is being 'semi - setup?'

Could this game against the Giants be the catalyst to make a change? I mean, if you do start Sage, then you have a QB controversy. If David starts and underperforms, you just simply make a move and there is no decision.

The problem IMHO is this - most people are stat people. They like stats, they like numbers, they like 'performances.' However, there are those out there who can 'see' things a little differently, they can 'see' momentum shift, they can 'feel' things turn, and they can just 'know' things in a game. It's very similar to p0rn0graph'y' - you can't define it but you know it when you see it.

Forget the TD's, forget the throws themselves, forget the completion %, forget Carr's performance, forget his turnovers - heck, look at Carr's best game as a pro, if you'd like. The thing is - you can 'see', 'sense' something better in the footwork, the reads, the 'feel' of the game with Sage. There's just something about seeing him 'feel' the game and 'read' the defense with an idea of what he's trying to accomplish - what the moment needs to be successful. I always get nervous when Carr drops back, throws, etc... I don't really know why - it's just a gut feel...and I like David.

When I say feel, I mean this - David can run a 4.7-ish 40 but doesn't seem to 'feel' when to run. He's got a good arm, but can't seem to 'feel' what to do when things break down, he's got good mobility but can't seem to get his feet to move the correct way...like a dancer.

Seeing Sage backpedal was a gorgeous thing to watch - a simple backpedal. Why? Because the pocket dictated a backpedal and Sage backpedaled. The pocket dictated WHAT to do and the QB DID that. I found that fascinating. Andre's slant dictated the ball be high, so the ball was thrown high. The pressure at the goalline dictated that the ball be thrown with only his arm and without a step, so that's what he did. Sage is NOT a great QB by the standard definition but he does what he's supposed to do - kinda like Brees.

In all honesty, maybe that's all we need. If Carr underperforms this week in NY, do you pull him for the next game? Not with anger or resentment but without passion or prejudice - do you make a move at that position for the betterment of the team despite the money or how you feel about Carr?

Just a thought....
Excellent post!

Napa Auto Parts
11-02-2006, 01:40 PM
Well its going to be a very rough week for Carr with Strahan and the other DE ayamanura or how ever its spelled causing havoc.

real
11-02-2006, 01:42 PM
Well its going to be a very rough week for Carr with Strahan and the other DE ayamanura or how ever its spelled causing havoc.

I think a Giant fan said Umenyoira(sp) isn't playing...

I think Kiwi is getting the start

TexansBull
11-02-2006, 02:14 PM
This whole David Carr debate is tired, but I still have rant...

There are possibly two things going on this season. With all the insane unqualified thinking going on in differnt boards, I am going to throw my insane unqualifed thinking in too. This what could be going on:

1. The rookie draft class is doing great. But I believe Carr was the first pick by Kubiak, not Mario. And if we needed a quarterback do you think we would have drafted Vince Young, Sage Rosenfels, or Jay Cutler. Think about that for a little bit. Probably Jay.

Unless Kubiak is wanting to draft a QB this season, sees one he likes from last year, and Sage is just an inbetween QB to prove Carr is worthless. He must want to get an offensive line going and then get a QB going that could be the likes of a Hall of Famer. But still, what QB coming out of this draft will Kubaik think is better than taking Jay Cutler, sitting him a year while the new rookie OL guys maturing, and come out firing on all cylinders with a better O-line and a rookie QB that got a chance to mature like Carson Palmer. Does Kubiak really think that complicatedly? Is he hoping Carr or Sage can just last for 2 seasons to grow his own QB?

Thats still a little bit of a stretch, but maybe. But if Carr is pulled, and then Sage is starting against the Bills, gets a good game under his bealt, and then starts playing well agianst Indy and Jax, that would be a mastermind setup for Sage by Kubiak.

2. Kubiak is going to make sure Carr wins and does good, but also isnt afraid to cut him. Kubiak wants his first pick this offseason to prove Kubiaks worth and add to a legacy Kubiak wants to have. Turnaround a spoiled QB to win the SB.

This is a plan of his to bring Carr into a game against a good NFL team to play his best and prove his worth. Could not be better. Do you want him to prove his worth against the Bills or some other scrub team? No, prove your worth against a playoff caliber team. This is your chance Carr to put it all together.

I think Carr has shone flashes of that this season against some of the teams played early on and proved he is making progress. Though this time he has to shine, not flash.

I think the second one is going on, though.

I think Carr will play good against the Giants. He may have a turnover, but not like last game. Giants are just a better team. He will play solid though. He aint going to come out like a Brady and spoil Manning.

If the team, and the entire teams puts forth an equal effort to win, we can win. We have to play good, smart fb, get maybe a turnover, and we can win. Maybe a corner can get an interception...sounds nice. And Tiki used to be a fumbler...maybe one of those too for Christmas.... and score off turnovers

NY has its share of problems lurking in the shadows. 1. Players think the coach is incompetent, 2. Sometimes they dont get along 3. Sometimes they cant pull it together as a team, 4. sometimes the QB makes errors. The last three affect any team but that first one is a real weakness. Ask any 2-14 team. We could get lucky and NY implodes against us.

Lets just hope we win with Carr and continue to win with Carr. I dont know a QB that has had it worse in this league. It doesnt matter who the QB is when we get the W.

And that refreshing feeling with Sage is because we have seen David screw up big, and know that he could screw up big. We have never seen Sage screw up and dont know what to expect out of him...Well there was this one time Sage did screw up and didnt get our offense to the line and killed too much time off the clock to recover the damage to win a game...but we dont count that...Its a differnt QB after all...You cant be mad if it aint Carr back there.:twocents:

real
11-02-2006, 02:16 PM
1. The rookie draft class is doing great. But I believe Carr was the first pick by Kubiak, not Mario. And if we needed a quarterback do you think we would have drafted Vince Young, Sage Rosenfels, or Jay Cutler. Think about that for a little bit. Probably Jay.


I doubt it...

TexansBull
11-02-2006, 02:32 PM
I doubt it...

Before January 26, Kubiak and Shannonhan(sp) never talked about the draft or was Cutler a spur of the moment decision? They must have talked about drafting a Qb and before Kubiak was hired. Cutlers name probably came up.

real
11-02-2006, 02:35 PM
Before January 26, Kubiak and Shannonhan(sp) never talked about the draft or was Cutler a spur of the moment decision? They must have talked about drafting a Qb and before Kubiak was hired. Cutlers name probably came up.

Even had they talked about Cutler....that was with the Broncos....

If we were going to take a QB in the first rd. I don't think there is even any discussion....we would have taken Young...but that is water under the bridge...

thunderkyss
11-02-2006, 02:40 PM
This whole David Carr debate is tired, but I still have rant...

There are possibly two things going on this season. With all the insane unqualified thinking going on in differnt boards, I am going to throw my insane unqualifed thinking in too. This what could be going on:


Want to know what I think??

I think Kubiak will take a win anyway he can get it, short of selling Carr out. Carr is a five year vet.... but he's also kind of a rookie. kids got talent, kids got an arm.

Every other coach, GM, fan(outside of Houston) looks at Carr as a guy who could've been a good NFL QB, had he not gone to the Houston Texans. I'm sure Gary was one of those guys.

Now CoachK is in a position to do something about it, and he is.

Alot of Carr fans say that there are a number of teams that would gladly take David Carr, and ride him all the way to the Superbowl.

What we are doing with Carr is very similar to what he'd go through no matter where he went.

just like Plummer in Denver, hasselback in Seattle, Warner in Arizona, Brooks in Oakland. You can't throw them in the game, and expect success in 7 games. Those guys are all starters, regardless how they play, especially when the whole team has many areas they need to improve. The only exception is Warner, kinda....... Warner was supposed to start all year, but Green panicked.

I'd like to think Kubiak will give Carr a year to see what he's got. In my mind, he'll be at the top of his game in that year, with very little lacking that he'd need to improve on.

In reality, Kubiak might think it will be three years before Carr will be at that level, and he'll probably treat this situation the same for the next three years.

I'm sure there are some games on our schedule that CoachK has circled as wins, and he'd like to get those.... but developing Carr is the highest priority right now.

TexanSam
11-02-2006, 02:43 PM
Kubiak's not going to bench Carr after just 8 games (after this Sunday) into his head coaching tenure. He'll give him at least one year at least then he'll be evaluated. No possible way that Carr is done after 8 games.

TexansBull
11-02-2006, 02:46 PM
Even had they talked about Cutler....that was with the Broncos....

If we were going to take a QB in the first rd. I don't think there is even any discussion....we would have taken Young...but that is water under the bridge...

You might be right. But this staff also pulled one of the draft history's biggest surprise. It could be reaching but anything is possible on draft day. I think in this city it isnt up for discussion, but elsewhere it might be.

And think about, Cutler wasnt a Longhorn, and VY is a Longhorn, and Kubiak is an Aggie, and they dont like Longhorns so...:rolleyes: <<sarcasm>>

Second Honeymoon
11-02-2006, 03:00 PM
I’ve been a Carr supporter from day one. I backed him up this year, and seen him improve, but this Sunday may be the end of the line for him here in Houston. The Giants brutalized the Cowboys, in Dallas, and on MNF. They have a great run blocking defense, superb pass rush and a great running game. If they get out to an early lead, Carr will have to throw, and they will pin their ears back and get him. Once again our offensive line is questionable, though this time because of injuries.

I listened to every response from Carr that I could get a hold of to see where he is at mentally. I think last week rattled him too much. He sounded terribly unsure of himself and trying to convince himself to put it behind him and do better. I think he will be ineffective, because he will be worried about coughing up the ball and not throwing picks. So worried, that it makes him timid and he will take extra sacks. This game, on the road, against a tough team will be defining moment in his career. If he is benched again, which is very possible, his days in Houston are most certainly numbered.

I actually feel bad for the guy. I think he will give it 110% this Sunday, but it may not be enough and his career in Houston may soon be over.

I want the Texans to win too, so… Go Carr! Go Texans!!!

So are you saying that he will be injured or that he will be pulled?

If they had so much belief in him that they would resign him and anoint him the future of the franchise both vocally and financially (guaranteed money to Carr and passing on VY, Lineart, etc.) then why would they give up on him after only half of a season? It doesn't make sense.

The benching was due to his fumbilitis affliction this year. Pure and simple. He has been fumbling in nearly every game multiple times and Kubiak decided to send a message that enough is enough. Even though Carr has shown great progress this year he had still had a huge role in helping lose 4 of the 5 losses to date. His turnovers have been costly and some careless.

Kubiak was sick of excuses and the 'out of nowhere' benching showed the rest of the team (especially the much maligned young and improving defense) that Kubiak is gonna make Carr accountable just like he has held other players accountable. I think that is all it was. He showed up Carr pretty bad and the players got the message. Hopefully Carr steps up to the challenge or there could be some big questions this offseason....but not mid-season.

Doug from The Woodlands

p.s. I think the benching was poorly timed, personally. I am just stating why I think it was done.

GIANTD86
11-02-2006, 03:07 PM
I think a Giant fan said Umenyoira(sp) isn't playing...

I think Kiwi is getting the start


We don't know how to spell his name either...that's why we call him Osi....I probably have no business commenting on your QB situation, but from an outsiders view..Carr will start the rest of the season for 1 of 2 purposes. #1: To see if he can regain this team. #2. For trade purposes. Kubiak may have decided on Sage and wants to showcase DC.

The Pencil Neck
11-02-2006, 03:23 PM
Kubiak was sick of excuses and the 'out of nowhere' benching showed the rest of the team (especially the much maligned young and improving defense) that Kubiak is gonna make Carr accountable just like he has held other players accountable. I think that is all it was. He showed up Carr pretty bad and the players got the message. Hopefully Carr steps up to the challenge or there could be some big questions this offseason....but not mid-season.


Although the benching was out of the blue to us fans, I think it was probably somethng that Kubiak had said to Carr before. And probably told him in front of the team.

I like the benching. No more coddling. No more hand holding. We're trying to re-train you but if you're not learning the lessons, you're going to sit. We don't care how much money we're paying you. It's all about performance and winning.

That's a great message to send to the team.

I think Kubiak is doing a great job so far.

And what QB's are going to be free agents next year? Kubiak might be setting things up so that all the pieces are in place and if Carr steps up, great. But if he doesn't, he can pick up a veteran QB from somewhere and go from there.

Either that or it's all about the training and development of Quinton Porter, the Future of the Texans. :jk:

Double Barrel
11-02-2006, 03:45 PM
The benching was due to his fumbilitis affliction this year.

Actually, SH, fumblitis is a halmark of Carr's career. I'm not doggin' the guy, but he's had 62 fumbles in 67 games. Dude has got to make protecting the football a top priority, and benching him for a bad game was a way for Kubiak to drill this message home.

Kubiak said before the season started that everyone on the team will be accountable, and he's a man of his word. He had to do it last Sunday, regardless of his own feelings, because players would sense a weakness and double standard in the head coach if he did not follow through.

Texan Asylum
11-02-2006, 03:51 PM
Actually, SH, fumblitis is a halmark of Carr's career. I'm not doggin' the guy, but he's had 62 fumbles in 67 games. Dude has got to make protecting the football a top priority, and benching him for a bad game was a way for Kubiak to drill this message home.

Kubiak said before the season started that everyone on the team will be accountable, and he's a man of his word. He had to do it last Sunday, regardless of his own feelings, because players would sense a weakness and double standard in the head coach if he did not follow through.
Everyone on the team should have taken note of the move. Perfect coaching in my opinion. NO ONE is above discipline.

Texans_Chick
11-02-2006, 04:04 PM
Actually, SH, fumblitis is a halmark of Carr's career. I'm not doggin' the guy, but he's had 62 fumbles in 67 games. Dude has got to make protecting the football a top priority, and benching him for a bad game was a way for Kubiak to drill this message home.

Kubiak said before the season started that everyone on the team will be accountable, and he's a man of his word. He had to do it last Sunday, regardless of his own feelings, because players would sense a weakness and double standard in the head coach if he did not follow through.

JINX ALERT JINX ALERT JINX ALERT.

Only as it relates to the dumbest fumblitis Carr has had over his career....

I don't believe he has fumbled the snap since I posted this in the NFL FanHouse and mentioned it in the Chronic blog:

"David Carr and the Reason for Mishandled Snaps" (http://texans.aolsportsblog.com/2006/09/26/david-carr-and-the-reason-for-mishandled-snaps/)

Okay, I probably jinxed him by mentioning this, and he will do it next game.

But maybe by mentioning the jinx it becomes an unjinx unless writing this sentence reactivates the jinx.

Yes, it is weird to have my brain.:cool:

The Pencil Neck
11-02-2006, 04:08 PM
But maybe by mentioning the jinx it becomes an unjinx unless writing this sentence reactivates the jinx.

Yes, it is weird to have my brain.:cool:

Yeah, it would be weird if someone had your brain. But that would explain a lot of your posts.

BA DOOM BOOM PISH!

Zank yew, zank yew. I am being heer all zee veek. :whip:

DeclanJr
11-02-2006, 04:08 PM
Does he have small hands, or does he just not protect the ball? It has to be one of the two right?

Texan Asylum
11-02-2006, 04:08 PM
JINX ALERT JINX ALERT JINX ALERT.

Only as it relates to the dumbest fumblitis Carr has had over his career....

I don't believe he has fumbled the snap since I posted this in the NFL FanHouse and mentioned it in the Chronic blog:

"David Carr and the Reason for Mishandled Snaps" (http://texans.aolsportsblog.com/2006/09/26/david-carr-and-the-reason-for-mishandled-snaps/)

Okay, I probably jinxed him by mentioning this, and he will do it next game.

But maybe by mentioning the jinx it becomes an unjinx unless writing this sentence reactivates the jinx.

Yes, it is weird to have my brain.:cool:
A 'jinxed' jinx, wouldn't be a jinx...unless the mention of the jinx would jinx the "jinxed' jinx's 'jinxing' powers.:chicken:

Texan_Bill
11-02-2006, 04:16 PM
A 'jinxed' jinx, wouldn't be a jinx...unless the mention of the jinx would jinx the "jinxed' jinx's 'jinxing' powers.:chicken:

Jinx the what? Apparently I need a "drinx"....

Texan Asylum
11-02-2006, 04:25 PM
Jinx the what? Apparently I need a "drinx"....
The jinx??? I thinx?!?

Bamaborn-Texasbred
11-02-2006, 04:37 PM
The only thing I am becoming more and more certain of is that Kubiak is using this season to figure out who is still going to be here next year. You keep hearing role playing players say things like, "you have to take advantage of your oppurtunities." This must be something they hear from the coaching staff on a daily basis.

My take on this season is this: it is a gigantic preseason for the 2007 regular season. Produce this year or else. That goes for everyone from the lowest man on the practice squad to David Carr himself.

real
11-02-2006, 04:39 PM
The only thing I am becoming more and more certain of is that Kubiak is using this season to figure out who is still going to be here next year. You keep hearing role playing players say things like, "you have to take advantage of your oppurtunities." This must be something they hear from the coaching staff on a daily basis.

My take on this season is this: it is a gigantic preseason for the 2007 regular season. Produce this year or else. That goes for everyone from the lowest man on the practice squad to David Carr himself.

If Kubiak viewed the season like that I would lose a lot of respect for him...

GP
11-02-2006, 04:40 PM
So are you saying that he will be injured or that he will be pulled?

If they had so much belief in him that they would resign him and anoint him the future of the franchise both vocally and financially (guaranteed money to Carr and passing on VY, Lineart, etc.) then why would they give up on him after only half of a season? It doesn't make sense.

The benching was due to his fumbilitis affliction this year. Pure and simple. He has been fumbling in nearly every game multiple times and Kubiak decided to send a message that enough is enough. Even though Carr has shown great progress this year he had still had a huge role in helping lose 4 of the 5 losses to date. His turnovers have been costly and some careless.

Kubiak was sick of excuses and the 'out of nowhere' benching showed the rest of the team (especially the much maligned young and improving defense) that Kubiak is gonna make Carr accountable just like he has held other players accountable. I think that is all it was. He showed up Carr pretty bad and the players got the message. Hopefully Carr steps up to the challenge or there could be some big questions this offseason....but not mid-season.

Doug from The Woodlands

p.s. I think the benching was poorly timed, personally. I am just stating why I think it was done.

Douglas,

I have to admit that I am in agreement with yor post.

You and I have sparred quite a bit in the past. Lately though, I am right there with you on your takes.

Nice post.

I think the benching only works like you had theorized IF Kubiak will also bench other high-profile players (Andre Johnson, for example) who fail to accomplish the "small things" such as catching a ball placed right into your hands with no defensive contact whatsoever.

I would have preferred for Andre Johnson to also be benched, even if it meant our chances of coming back diminish even more. Yes, the Carr benching was designed to send s ignal to Carr...and hopefully to the o line, IMO.

But Kubiak better go ahead and prepare himself to bench a few more if you ask me. The more the merrier. Show 'em that nobody is safe. Ever.

hollywood_texan
11-02-2006, 05:30 PM
Douglas,

I have to admit that I am in agreement with yor post.

You and I have sparred quite a bit in the past. Lately though, I am right there with you on your takes.

Nice post.

I think the benching only works like you had theorized IF Kubiak will also bench other high-profile players (Andre Johnson, for example) who fail to accomplish the "small things" such as catching a ball placed right into your hands with no defensive contact whatsoever.

I would have preferred for Andre Johnson to also be benched, even if it meant our chances of coming back diminish even more. Yes, the Carr benching was designed to send s ignal to Carr...and hopefully to the o line, IMO.

But Kubiak better go ahead and prepare himself to bench a few more if you ask me. The more the merrier. Show 'em that nobody is safe. Ever.

I am amazed some people think Andre Johnson should have been benched since Carr was benched.

Football players, and human beings for that matter, are going to make mistakes. The key is, does a player provide enough plays that makes it more valuable to have them on the field than sitting them on the bench.

Andre Johnson has had some bad drops this year and last year. I don't think anyone will say he hasn't dropped some easy balls and most agree it is something he needs to work on. But, even with those drops, he is more valuable on the field with his mistakes because he can still make big plays to overcome those mistakes. That is my point here.

Carr on the other hand is a completely different issue in that regard. Carr can put up decent stats of about 22 completions out of 30 attempts for about 200 yards, maybe a TD or two. However, if he throws a pick or loses a fumble, his value to the team greatly diminishes. If the Texans get behind early because the offense can't score points, his play is greatly diminished as well because he really doesn't have the IT factor to execute the offense quickly to score quality points to win the game by coming from behind.

A victory with Carr as the QB means the defense needs to hold the other team to about 10 points through 3 quarters and Carr needs to have no turnovers. Otherwise, the game is probably going to get out of hand.

Carr's biggest problem isn't his mistakes, but that he just doesn't make the BIG plays to compensate for his mistakes. Most starting QBs and some backups could get the same stats Carr gets in this offense. But not many QBs in the league can make the BIG plays though to overcome their mistakes.

It looks to be becoming very clear that Carr is probably just an average QB at best. I say average at best, because he needs a low scoring game with no mistakes to win a game and I really haven't seen anything that he can win a shoot out on any given day.

tsip
11-02-2006, 05:30 PM
"Andre Johnson, for example"


...ya think?...

tsip
11-02-2006, 05:36 PM
I am amazed some people think Andre Johnson should have been benched since Carr was benched.

Football players, and human beings for that matter, are going to make mistakes. The key is, does a player provide enough plays that makes it more valuable to have them on the field than sitting them on the bench.

Andre Johnson has had some bad drops this year and last year. I don't think anyone will say he hasn't dropped some easy balls and most agree it is something he needs to work on. But, even with those drops, he is more valuable on the field with his mistakes because he can still make big plays to overcome those mistakes. That is my point here.

Carr on the other hand is a completely different issue in that regard. Carr can put up decent stats of about 22 completions out of 30 attempts for about 200 yards, maybe a TD or two. However, if he throws a pick or loses a fumble, his value to the team greatly diminishes. If the Texans get behind early because the offense can't score points, his play is greatly diminished as well because he really doesn't have the IT factor to execute the offense quickly to score quality points to win the game by coming from behind.

A victory with Carr as the QB means the defense needs to hold the other team to about 10 points through 3 quarters and Carr needs to have no turnovers. Otherwise, the game is probably going to get out of hand.

Carr's biggest problem isn't his mistakes, but that he just doesn't make the BIG plays to compensate for his mistakes. Most starting QBs and some backups could get the same stats Carr gets in this offense. But not many QBs in the league can make the BIG plays though to overcome their mistakes.

It looks to be becoming very clear that Carr is probably just an average QB at best. I say average at best, because he needs a low scoring game with no mistakes to win a game and I really haven't seen anything that he can win a shoot out on any given day.

Hey, Buddy, you are in some serious trouble now!!!.....you forgot to mention the OL in the same post as Carr...for shame!:redtowel: :crying:

GiantsJunkie
11-02-2006, 05:52 PM
NY has its share of problems lurking in the shadows.

1. Players think the coach is incompetent,

ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT. THEY THINK HE'S A TOUGH SOB SOMETIMES, BUT NEVER INCOMPETENT. THE "OUTCOACHED" TALK COMES OUT OF FRUSTRATION FROM HIS STRICT RULES. WHEN A FAILURE HAPPENS AND THEY'RE SICK OF WORKING SO HARD IT'S EASY TO BLAME THE COACH.

2. Sometimes they dont get along

VERY, VERY RARE ON THE GIANTS TEAM. BURRESS HAS HAD A LITTLE ATTITUDE PROBLEM IN YEARS PAST, NOW HE'S MUCH BETTER. SHOCKEY IS FINE - TEAMMATES LIKE HIM BECAUSE HE CARES. TIKI IS A LITTLE PRIMADONNA-ISH, BUT OK WITH MOST OF THE TEAM.

3. Sometimes they cant pull it together as a team,

VERY MUCH TRUE.

4. sometimes the QB makes errors.

ELI STILL MAKES SOME DUMB THROWS, AND BAD READS. BUT FOR THE MOST PART HE IS TURNING INTO PHIL SIMMS - A BORING, EFFICIENT AND SMART PASSER.

The last three affect any team but that first one is a real weakness. Ask any 2-14 team. We could get lucky and NY implodes against us.

VERY MUCH TRUE. THE GIANTS ARE TALKING LIKE THEY'RE NOT LOOKING PAST THE TEXANS, I HOPE THAT'S THE CASE. IF HOU CAN ESTABLISH ANY KIND OF RUNNING GAME EARLY, YOU WILL CERTAINLY HAVE CHANCES TO EXPLOIT OUR SECONDARY.



THANKS AND GOOD LUCK ALL!

Buffi2
11-02-2006, 06:01 PM
Carr on the other hand is a completely different issue in that regard. Carr can put up decent stats of about 22 completions out of 30 attempts for about 200 yards, maybe a TD or two. However, if he throws a pick or loses a fumble, his value to the team greatly diminishes. If the Texans get behind early because the offense can't score points, his play is greatly diminished as well because he really doesn't have the IT factor to execute the offense quickly to score quality points to win the game by coming from behind.

Once Carr makes a mistake he gets rattled and is unable to get un-rattled. It is like some kind of grim spiral he goes into - one mistake begets another mistake as he tries to compensate and make the big play to recover from the first mistake. He gets more uptight, starts forcing plays, doesn't see the field and can't seem to forget the mistake and move on... for whatever reasons. Andre and other players seem to be able to screw up once, yet they appear to forget the little error and continue to make other plays. David isn't like that.

Once David learns to make a mistake, forget it, start over with the next play - he will be ok - not great - but good. I've often said that Kubiak needs to call a time out and give David a paper bag to breathe into or a valium or something to calm him down.

I hope that can be taught, but I'm not a coach and I don't know. I do know that I'm going to be in the stands Sunday and I wish folks would stop talking about snow - I don't do snow.

Double Barrel
11-02-2006, 06:18 PM
It looks to be becoming very clear that Carr is probably just an average QB at best. I say average at best, because he needs a low scoring game with no mistakes to win a game and I really haven't seen anything that he can win a shoot out on any given day.

A lot of people have him pegged as a Trent Dilfer type QB (who he's good friends with, btw). Put a good, solid team around him, with a dominant defense, and he can probably be consistent enough to not lose games. Dilfer has a ring, so this isn't a slam on either QB. I just don't see Carr as the type of player in the vein of the 'greats', who can raise everyone around them to play better and often take games to new levels by their sheer willpower.

Texan Asylum
11-02-2006, 06:48 PM
A lot of people have him pegged as a Trent Dilfer type QB (who he's good friends with, btw). Put a good, solid team around him, with a dominant defense, and he can probably be consistent enough to not lose games. Dilfer has a ring, so this isn't a slam on either QB. I just don't see Carr as the type of player in the vein of the 'greats', who can raise everyone around them to play better and often take games to new levels by their sheer willpower.
But you surround the Lad with talented 'consistent' people, and you're talking about a horse of a different color.

He definitely has the 'skill set' to be at the front of your higher level QB's, but the support he's had with mediocre running and numerous dropped passes has presented him as a easy target.

Present the opposition with formidable weapons, that are 'consistent', and he's in a different class altogether.

hollywood_texan
11-02-2006, 07:24 PM
But you surround the Lad with talented 'consistent' people, and you're talking about a horse of a different color.

He definitely has the 'skill set' to be at the front of your higher level QB's, but the support he's had with mediocre running and numerous dropped passes has presented him as a easy target.

Present the opposition with formidable weapons, that are 'consistent', and he's in a different class altogether.

Since last season, we have added Kubiak and Sherman as coaches. Also, Moulds was brought in as a quality 2nd receiver and Daniels looks to be pretty good pass catching tight end.

How much more help does Carr need to at least get this team .500?

How much more held does Carr need for the offense to score a TD on the road in the first half?

TheRealJoker
11-02-2006, 07:27 PM
Since last season, we have added Kubiak and Sherman as coaches. Also, Moulds was brought in as a quality 2nd receiver and Daniels looks to be pretty good pass catching tight end.

How much more help does Carr need to at least get this team .500?

How much more held does Carr need for the offense to score a TD on the road in the first half?

Maybe an average to good offensive line would help?:twocents:

HJam72
11-02-2006, 08:02 PM
Maybe an average to good offensive line would help?:twocents:

Hahahahahahaha!

Gee, ya think?

Of course, some say Carr sacks himself way too much. Actually, a lot of people say that.

Ibar_Harry
11-02-2006, 08:04 PM
I’ve been a Carr supporter from day one. I backed him up this year, and seen him improve, but this Sunday may be the end of the line for him here in Houston. The Giants brutalized the Cowboys, in Dallas, and on MNF. They have a great run blocking defense, superb pass rush and a great running game. If they get out to an early lead, Carr will have to throw, and they will pin their ears back and get him. Once again our offensive line is questionable, though this time because of injuries.

I listened to every response from Carr that I could get a hold of to see where he is at mentally. I think last week rattled him too much. He sounded terribly unsure of himself and trying to convince himself to put it behind him and do better. I think he will be ineffective, because he will be worried about coughing up the ball and not throwing picks. So worried, that it makes him timid and he will take extra sacks. This game, on the road, against a tough team will be defining moment in his career. If he is benched again, which is very possible, his days in Houston are most certainly numbered.

I actually feel bad for the guy. I think he will give it 110% this Sunday, but it may not be enough and his career in Houston may soon be over.

I want the Texans to win too, so… Go Carr! Go Texans!!!

Interesting take on the situation. I said well before the preseason that Carr had no future in Houston based on the fans. Now lets add to that what Kubiak has done.

To begin with Kubiak has taught Carr how to do some things such as how to handle the ball and do a better play fake. I've said from the beginning that Carr was and never has been skilled at handing off the ball. His forte plain and simple is the pass. That skill has been buried in the dirt of Reliant Stadium.

Has Kubiak improved the O-line?

Has Kubiak improved the Running game?

Has Kubiak allowed David to stretch the field?

Did Kubiak call the same plays when Sage was playing?

The answer to all of the above is no and I really do wonder what Kubiak is trying to do. Kubiak's game management leaves a lot to be desired. In the last 2 minutes before the half in the last game, he called Capers like plays. We know we are going to have the ball to start the 2nd half and yet we do not take a shot at the end zone. A deep intercepted pass is the same as a punt and probably a lot less close to the end zone and probably a lot less dangerouse as far as a return is concerned. The Titans would have sat on the ball given they had a lead and a young QB. That was the way Fisher was playing the game. At least they would have had to go one heck of a lot further than they did when the fumble occurred.

To be honest I have found very little to be happy about with Kubiak's play calling. I think a lot of us thought he would be a dynamic caller. At this point I would love to see Carr call a game on his own. If he is to go down in flames it might as well be at his own hands. The two times Carr has been his own play caller we have done well.

What is so great about Kubiak's play calling. Manning calls his own plays - some of you question that - but he does and nobody over rules him. I'm still an old time fan who believes the QB as general should call his plays. Whether its Carr or Sage I believe they should call their plays. Kubiak has no feel for the game on the field. He is not standing in the shoes of the QB even though he has been one. He doesn't see what the O-line is doing or feeling. Only the QB in the huddle is able to quiz and knows what is happening. He alone can help his line by calling plays to assist and take advantage of what the other team is doing. Kubiak is trying to micro manage like so many coaches do and he's screwing up this team. LEAVE THE PLAY CALLING TO THE QB's.......

HJam72
11-02-2006, 08:10 PM
Time for the inevitable "Manning does not call his own plays. He just has lots of choices for audibles." post.

I think we should just let the players take turns calling plays. Heck, let the defense call the O plays and the offense call the D plays. Eventually, we might find somebody that can call plays. Maybe we could have call-ins and let the fans call the plays.

This is not a joke. I'm being very serious here. :rolleyes:

HJam72
11-02-2006, 08:10 PM
I wanna call some plays! :brickwall

Wolf
11-02-2006, 08:11 PM
Boy, there is going to be some disappointed people If Carr's last game isn't Sunday..

JDizzle
11-02-2006, 08:17 PM
Carr is a better playcaller than Kubiak. Outstanding.

thunderkyss
11-02-2006, 08:56 PM
His forte plain and simple is the pass. That skill has been buried in the dirt of Reliant Stadium.

Has Kubiak improved the O-line?

Has Kubiak improved the Running game?

Has Kubiak allowed David to stretch the field?

What if I told you I can see on my recorded game, at least 3 possible TDs David could have thrown, AJ or Molds open in the middle of the field, with the safety coming down to cover the TE(who had been killing them) or covering the other WR??

But David instead elected to throw the underneath route??

What if I told you on two of those three missed opportunities David had a beautiful pocket to work from??


Did Kubiak call the same plays when Sage was playing?

The answer to all of the above is no and I really do wonder what Kubiak is trying to do. LEAVE THE PLAY CALLING TO THE QB's.......

If CoachK was calling better plays for Sage..... what could be some possible reasons??

GP
11-02-2006, 09:02 PM
I am amazed some people think Andre Johnson should have been benched since Carr was benched.

Football players, and human beings for that matter, are going to make mistakes. The key is, does a player provide enough plays that makes it more valuable to have them on the field than sitting them on the bench.

Andre Johnson has had some bad drops this year and last year. I don't think anyone will say he hasn't dropped some easy balls and most agree it is something he needs to work on. But, even with those drops, he is more valuable on the field with his mistakes because he can still make big plays to overcome those mistakes. That is my point here.

Carr on the other hand is a completely different issue in that regard. Carr can put up decent stats of about 22 completions out of 30 attempts for about 200 yards, maybe a TD or two. However, if he throws a pick or loses a fumble, his value to the team greatly diminishes. If the Texans get behind early because the offense can't score points, his play is greatly diminished as well because he really doesn't have the IT factor to execute the offense quickly to score quality points to win the game by coming from behind.

A victory with Carr as the QB means the defense needs to hold the other team to about 10 points through 3 quarters and Carr needs to have no turnovers. Otherwise, the game is probably going to get out of hand.

Carr's biggest problem isn't his mistakes, but that he just doesn't make the BIG plays to compensate for his mistakes. Most starting QBs and some backups could get the same stats Carr gets in this offense. But not many QBs in the league can make the BIG plays though to overcome their mistakes.

It looks to be becoming very clear that Carr is probably just an average QB at best. I say average at best, because he needs a low scoring game with no mistakes to win a game and I really haven't seen anything that he can win a shoot out on any given day.

Hmmmmmmmmm.........

You make it sound like David HASN'T made big plays.

He's got four or five or even more big, nasty d linemen and LBs coming after him on every play...as opposed to Andre who is one-on-one with a DB, maybe doubled sometimes at best, and you're saying that Andre has made more big plays than Carr?

Just the fact that David is still playing after Capers' mishandling of the entire team is Carr's biggest achievement. The guy has probably made as many 3rd down conversions on his own by running head first for the 1st down marker as Aj has...and let's not even discuss how many times on a 3rd down we've had an o linemen false start or hold and then push us back to longer yardage for the 1st down. David is facing almost impossible odds before the ball's even snapped IMO. Guys like Brady and Manning have the benefit of knowing that they are surrounded by more competent role players than what we have. What a luxury for those guys to know that the other guys will coe up clutch or even just perform adequately enough to get the yards needed, etc. What a concept. And you know what, look at this year's draft class: We're on our way, baby!

Face it, Carr's the the guy people love to hate. It's always the QB's fault. And especially if they look like a poster-child QB. That's a double-whammy right there. How many times do we see Carr's "looks" enter the equation of analysis around here?

There's enough blame to pass around for our bad games. And there's plenty of praise to pass around for our good games. No one man does it all.

And that's why I'm torqued about a guy who DROPPED two consecutive 3rd down passes that were (1) Each practically placed into his hands, and (2) With no bone-crushing Dback putting contact on him at the time the passes were in range of his hands.

What's so hard to understand that Andre killed two straight drives all by himself? Everyone else on the offense did their job: Blocked, Allowed David/Sage the time to throw, David/Sage MADE the throw(s) and made them NICE, and AJ drops them.

It's not as outlandish as it sounds to bench AJ. This was not HIS first time to dummy up and drop a well-thrown pass that killed drives.

Look, if he does it on first down...that's one thing. But I want to go back and start looking at all the drives HE has killed all by himself for dropping nice passes. It's more than 2, I know THAT.

Like I said, I'm an "Equal Benching Opportunity" provider. It's a 53-man roster, and now that Kubiak has made the big kill in terms of benching the starting QB...I'd like to see some others get a cooling off period if they kill drives or make completely useless non-plays on the field, especially if the player grades out to be a Pro Bowler like AJ.

That includes Lundy who tripped on the grass. If he continues to do that on the ONE screen pass that we seem to call per game, then it's the same deal as AJ dropping passes.

Tayton
11-02-2006, 09:28 PM
What if I told you I can see on my recorded game, at least 3 possible TDs David could have thrown, AJ or Molds open in the middle of the field, with the safety coming down to cover the TE(who had been killing them) or covering the other WR??

But David instead elected to throw the underneath route??

What if I told you on two of those three missed opportunities David had a beautiful pocket to work from??



If CoachK was calling better plays for Sage..... what could be some possible reasons??

Not disputing that Carr didn't miss some plays but what recorded angle do you have which shows the whole field. Maybe you do, but I don't. And I believe the TE started killing them after David left. JMO

Texan Asylum
11-02-2006, 09:37 PM
Since last season, we have added Kubiak and Sherman as coaches. Also, Moulds was brought in as a quality 2nd receiver and Daniels looks to be pretty good pass catching tight end.

How much more help does Carr need to at least get this team .500?

How much more held does Carr need for the offense to score a TD on the road in the first half?
Agreed...but everyone, including us homers, knew that it'd be the second half of the season before we'd start seeing the real results.

I made BOLD predictions early on, but that's just the natural cheerleader in me. I secretly hoped that those wishes would come true, but realistically, how quick did you REALLY expect to see the results you were hoping for?

The second half will yield the impact of all the changes made to date.

I'm with you on this Hollywood! :) We all can use some P-A-Y-O-F-F!:woot:

GP
11-02-2006, 09:48 PM
Since last season, we have added Kubiak and Sherman as coaches. Also, Moulds was brought in as a quality 2nd receiver and Daniels looks to be pretty good pass catching tight end.

How much more help does Carr need to at least get this team .500?
How much more held does Carr need for the offense to score a TD on the road in the first half?

Answer:

1. He needs his o line to stop false starting to open up a drive, pushing him into a 15-yard hole. Isn't always so nice that we somehow get 5 yards back on the first play...when we could then have a 2nd and 5....but noooooo, we're back to 10 yards needed and only two plays left.

2. He needs the blindside to be better protected.

3. He needs a running game, which it looks like it's warming up and ready to be consistent now. The first few games had zero running game. Now that we have one, it needs to stay here.

4. He needs Chad Stanley to try a directional punt to pin good returners against a sideline and not give said returner a wide variety of escape routes. And some consistency from Chad would be great, too. He's such a good punter and we brag on his hang time...but where was it on the Pac Man TD return? Nowhere, and it turned out to be yet another tremendous joy kill for our team.

5. He needs AJ to CATCH 3rd down passes, especially the ones that are PLACED in his hands with no contact coming. Seems a reasonably easy one to achieve if you ask me.

6. He needs other people to handle their business in terms of things like 12 men in the huddle. Come on, now...that's junior high stuff right there, isn't it? Is it too much to ask millionaire superstars and coaches to count to eleven? Once again, it puts him at a distinct disadvantage before the ball's even snapped.

Should I go on?

It's not so much that I think David is perfect. He isn't. But let's be a little balanced here in terms of understanding that the whole team is just now resembling a real NFL franchise for the first time.

Ibar_Harry
11-02-2006, 11:45 PM
Strangely enough the biggest juggle I firmly believe was by Daniels which took away a big 3rd down conversion and we punted the ball away. The next series is when Young scored the touchdown. I said at the time - I have stated serveral times - there's the ball game and it was. People say 1 play does not make a game, but often it does. That one play changed the momentum forever in the game.

I know I'm at odds with many of you, but I do no longer see the greatness in Kubiak. He's no different than Capers. He calls the same kind of plays and you see it at the end of the 1st half if we have the ball. There is no imagination in the play calling.

tsip
11-03-2006, 01:07 AM
I understand that as long as Carr wears a Texan uniform his claim to fame will be the excuses made for his poor/mediocre play on the field. I'm convinced that no matter 'how perfect' everything could be on the field for David that--if he still continued to be a so-so QB--his followers would find/make an excuse for him. However, with 'everything perfect' around him--best OL/TE/WR/RB/COACHES/PLAYBOOK/PLAYCALLING/GAME PLANNING/ADJUSTMENTS TO GAME PLANNING/TEAMMATES ATTITUDE/FANS/FLAVOR OF GATORADE,etc.--there might still be a few 'things' that could not be made 'perfect' for Carr, like the weather/peace in the world/return on his investments so, the question remains---would David be able to play at a 'higher' level?...or would the excuses remain.

And, finally--and certainly the most unfair/possibly unlawful--WHY IS DAVID CARR THE ONLY NFL QB WITHOUT EVERYTHING ABSOLUTELY 'PERFECT' AROUND HIM??? IS this a conspiracy?:brickwall :yikes: :shoot: :crying:

Wolf
11-03-2006, 06:34 AM
Carr has become the new "Chris Palmer" on this board.

Carr will continue to be scrutenized until we start winning which sorry folks, won't be until 2007 (if we have a good draft) or 2008.

defense has to shored up. Offensive line needs some tweaks.

Carr needs another season under Kubiak to improve

Kaiser Toro
11-03-2006, 06:52 AM
If Carr were making 1.6 million dollars there would not be much discussion about him, because that is right about where his value is on the team, with potential upside, in my opinion.

As I have said in the past I do not hate Carr, I hate his contract.

thunderkyss
11-03-2006, 07:12 AM
Not disputing that Carr didn't miss some plays but what recorded angle do you have which shows the whole field. Maybe you do, but I don't. And I believe the TE started killing them after David left. JMO

on some plays, where they show the replay of several Angles..... Earlier in this thread, where IBar is talking about Daniels juggling the ball, I believe that is the same play.

We emptied the backfield, and we have 5 recievers in play. Carr has plenty of time on this play.

The first angle on this play shows Owen releasing to the right..... then you lose sight of him, and you see a safety coming to get him way late..... but from this angle, it looks like the safety starts to follow him as the ball is thrown. When the camera moves to catch Owen, you see Andre across the middle, no safety on top, and the corner trailing him. If the ball is put ahead of him, where he can catch it without breaking stride, he would have caught it some where around the Tenn 45, and ran it in for a touchdown unless someone could catch him........ maybe PacMan as he was in the vicinity covering Walter.

After Owen bobbles a perfect pass from David, you can see the safety & other corner coming down as if they had covered Moulds on a go route up the left sideline.

But when they show the replay from the defensive side of the ball, you can see ChrisHope is on the right side of the field. & Carr is looking to the right, most likely at Moulds, then AJ......... from this angle, the right is Carr's left. Then he looks at Owen who just came off a block, and proceeded to the right.

Chris Hope was lined above Owen, and covered him when Owen went to the right. I don't know if Chris covered him because he was an open reciever, or because he saw David's eyes... But he was way too late to cover Daniels, and Daniels would have had an easy catch.. plus some yards.

IMHO Andre was far enough behind Hope, that Carr could've thrown the ball over the top relatively easy..... but when he moved to cover Owen, he could've thrown that ball anywhich way he wanted to to get it to AJ.

BUt Owen was killing the defense from start to finish. He didn't get all 99 yards when Sage came into the game.

I thought Carr must be punishing AJ for dropping so many balls, because he was going to Owen like he used to go to AJ..... & Owen was taking advantage of it.

thunderkyss
11-03-2006, 08:00 AM
Answer:

1. He needs his o line to stop false starting to open up a drive, pushing him into a 15-yard hole. Isn't always so nice that we somehow get 5 yards back on the first play...when we could then have a 2nd and 5....but noooooo, we're back to 10 yards needed and only two plays left.

OUt of curiousity...... can you tell me how many times we've been called for a false start this year??

How many times has Salaam been called for a false start this year??

If I were to tell you that Salaam has not been called for a false start this year, in any game other than last Sunday's game against Tennessee, would it be fair to say that Salaam had a bad game, and we don't bench players for having one bad game??

If I were to tell you that David fumbled the football in 3 of our previous games(Indy, Washington, Miami), & avg'd one fumble/game before the season started, would it be fair to say this is chronic behavior?? & needs to be taken care of??

Can you see how these are two totally different situations??

2. He needs the blindside to be better protected.

What if I told you he only got hit twice from the left side?? and 8 times from the center & right side of the line??

3. He needs a running game, which it looks like it's warming up and ready to be consistent now. The first few games had zero running game. Now that we have one, it needs to stay here.

foul..... we were running the ball well against Indy(we rushed for 100 yards...) even though someone singlehandedly spotted the Colts 10 points off his fumbles(one fumble was an unforced fumble) and we played Catch-up from the first snap(almost.....) becuase of wonder-boys acute fumblitis....

4. He needs Chad Stanley to try a directional punt to pin good returners against a sideline and not give said returner a wide variety of escape routes. And some consistency from Chad would be great, too. He's such a good punter and we brag on his hang time...but where was it on the Pac Man TD return? Nowhere, and it turned out to be yet another tremendous joy kill for our team.

Special teams have been lights out for us this year.....

5. He needs AJ to CATCH 3rd down passes, especially the ones that are PLACED in his hands with no contact coming. Seems a reasonably easy one to achieve if you ask me.

When AJ has to turn around backwards, or dives down to get a ball, even though his hands are all around the ball, doesn't mean that the ball was placed in his hands.

& I gaurantee you he's caught more on third downs behind the sticks, and had to make a big play to pick up our first down, than he has dropped on third down beyound the sticks.

6. He needs other people to handle their business in terms of things like 12 men in the huddle. Come on, now...that's junior high stuff right there, isn't it? Is it too much to ask millionaire superstars and coaches to count to eleven? Once again, it puts him at a distinct disadvantage before the ball's even snapped.

it puts who at a disadvantage?? David wasn't even in the game, and Sage threw a 10 yard touchdown to Andre Johnson(beautiful acrobatic catch) 4 plays later, including a "drive killing" false start by YKW.

Should I go on?

Lets.......

It's not so much that I think David is perfect. He isn't. But let's be a little balanced here in terms of understanding that the whole team is just now resembling a real NFL franchise for the first time.

& when certain parts don't fit, we get rid of them. Buch.... gone, Wade, Brown, Riley, Wand.... gone. Walker.. gone

Lundy fumbles the ball on the Inianapolis 16 yard line. Inactive for 3 games.

David fumbles on the Hou 16 & Hou 26 of the same game...... slap on the hand.

David fumbles on the Hou 42, Hou 29, & the Washington 46...... slap on the hand.

David fumbles on the Mia 45(not his fault, ball was stripped)....... slap on the hand.

David fumbles on the Hou 46(returned for a touchdown with 18 seconds left in the half), & the Tenn 26..... benched for 1.5 Qtrs.......


seems pretty fair to me.

infantrycak
11-03-2006, 08:04 AM
If Carr were making 1.6 million dollars there would not be much discussion about him, because that is right about where his value is on the team, with potential upside, in my opinion.

As I have said in the past I do not hate Carr, I hate his contract.

While the contract may be your main point and it gets mentioned (along with hair, smiling, when he uses we vs. I, etc.) folks will always concentrate on the QB. If Carr was playing for league minimum the references to salary would be akin to "why do we have a garage sale pretty boy" instead of "why do we have a Needless Markups pretty boy."

thunderkyss
11-03-2006, 08:06 AM
Carr has become the new "Chris Palmer" on this board.

Carr will continue to be scrutenized until we start winning which sorry folks, won't be until 2007 (if we have a good draft) or 2008.

defense has to shored up. Offensive line needs some tweaks.

Carr needs another season under Kubiak to improve

Nobody was criticizing Carr until the Tennessee game, even though he botched the Dallas game & the Indy game almost single handedly.

Lets put this in perspective, Carr will get the same free pass everyone else is getting as long as he looks competent. Hell, he doesn't even need to look competent as along as we aren't playing Vince's team.

DeclanJr
11-03-2006, 08:13 AM
well said...

Hulk75
11-03-2006, 08:18 AM
I believe:cool: this will be his best game as a pro, and I BELIEVE that we beat the Giants in NY.

real
11-03-2006, 08:23 AM
Nobody was criticizing Carr until the Tennessee game, even though he botched the Dallas game & the Indy game almost single handedly.

Lets put this in perspective, Carr will get the same free pass everyone else is getting as long as he looks competent. Hell, he doesn't even need to look competent as along as we aren't playing Vince's team.

A lot of people weren't bashing the guy...but I didn't see a lot of praise either...I saw a lot of comments that said he was playing "o.k"....or that Carr wasn't the problem....But I didn't see a lot of jubilation over his play either...

Dr. Toro
11-03-2006, 08:25 AM
I believe:cool: this will be his best game as a pro, and I BELIEVE that we beat the Giants in NY.

On the road, cold, windy, coming off an awful performance, facing a great D-line, Kiwanuka hungry, Strahan doing stupid jump shots, Lundy running well... I think Carr will be managing this game with few opportunities to fail or excel... unless Kubiak wants to treat this as a sink or swim game with aggressive playcalling.

I think Carr's stats will be mainly affected by Lundy's ability to catch the ball out of the backfield and his ability to hit Daniels and AJ in the redzone. I see a smashmouth slugfest coming. I think Carr's performance will be judged on whether we win or lose... the defense/Eli turnovers (13 on the year) will keep us in the game.

DRAMA
11-03-2006, 09:04 AM
A lot of people weren't bashing the guy...but I didn't see a lot of praise either...I saw a lot of comments that said he was playing "o.k"....or that Carr wasn't the problem....But I didn't see a lot of jubilation over his play either...

I agree with you.... I honestly don't think of people as Carr bashers if they come with a solid argument.

The thing is it's hard to identify the intangibles as...well, tangible evidence. I mean, I hear guys on the radio talking about, "If Carr throws for 250 and 2 TD's..." yeah, ok - I'd love that too. However, it's not that. It's like Steve Francis when he was here. He avg'd 20-5-5. WOW! Those are GREAT numbers but the fact is Steve never 'got it.' He was selfish and made too many 'boneheaded' mistakes that were crucial to winning. You could look at Steve in boxscore and say it wasn't his fault because the numbers look good. However, if you really watched the game, you saw how many times he DIDN'T drop it down to Yao wide open, how many times he crossed over the guy and had him beat only to wait for the guy to get his composure and let him know he beat him, how many times he showed off his dribbling skills only to lose the ball off his foot, etc...

Again, I like Carr but the fumble have got to stop, the comfortability in the pocket MUST get better, the 'feel' of the game MUST improve. Why do I have to keep hearing about how Kubiak 'WORKS WITH QB's and brings them along..." So what!!!?? :brickwall We have a QB that already HAS that intangible. He's already a QB who makes the reads and is comfortable in the pocket and knows how to feel the game out. Again, I'm not saying that Sage is the BEST QB ever....not saying that at all. What I'm saying is I don't need the head coach to 'bring along a QB' when there's already one on the team NOW. Enough of the 'genius QB coach' talk - play the best players or at least identify who may be young future starters and play them no matter what.

Coach, I don't mind if we lose as long are we're doing everything we can. I understand that this is an evaluation period - this year. It's ok. But if you're the genius that we all actually think you may be, then let's get past this QB situation THIS YEAR! Do not let this linger into next year...that would be disastrous. I'm sorry that David has had bad protection his first 5 years - I'm sorry for David and the team but the fact is we STILL have a team, we're STILL trying to become a winner, and we're STILL making excuses. Trading David may be a mistake but it's a mistake I'm willing to try because standing pat has simply not worked - despite the smile, despite the character, despite the players, and despite the passer rating numbers this year.

What is our PLAN for the future? Is DC seriously the mental rock to take us there? If he's not, which most 'feel' he's not, then make a decision.

Texanfan4ever
11-03-2006, 10:33 AM
I believe:cool: this will be his best game as a pro, and I BELIEVE that we beat the Giants in NY.


I BELIEVE!!!! But I don't think I can watch....

GP
11-03-2006, 11:54 AM
OUt of curiousity...... can you tell me how many times we've been called for a false start this year??

How many times has Salaam been called for a false start this year??

If I were to tell you that Salaam has not been called for a false start this year, in any game other than last Sunday's game against Tennessee, would it be fair to say that Salaam had a bad game, and we don't bench players for having one bad game??

If I were to tell you that David fumbled the football in 3 of our previous games(Indy, Washington, Miami), & avg'd one fumble/game before the season started, would it be fair to say this is chronic behavior?? & needs to be taken care of??

Can you see how these are two totally different situations??

What if I told you he only got hit twice from the left side?? and 8 times from the center & right side of the line??

foul..... we were running the ball well against Indy(we rushed for 100 yards...) even though someone singlehandedly spotted the Colts 10 points off his fumbles(one fumble was an unforced fumble) and we played Catch-up from the first snap(almost.....) becuase of wonder-boys acute fumblitis....

Special teams have been lights out for us this year.....

When AJ has to turn around backwards, or dives down to get a ball, even though his hands are all around the ball, doesn't mean that the ball was placed in his hands.

& I gaurantee you he's caught more on third downs behind the sticks, and had to make a big play to pick up our first down, than he has dropped on third down beyound the sticks.

it puts who at a disadvantage?? David wasn't even in the game, and Sage threw a 10 yard touchdown to Andre Johnson(beautiful acrobatic catch) 4 plays later, including a "drive killing" false start by YKW.

Lets.......


& when certain parts don't fit, we get rid of them. Buch.... gone, Wade, Brown, Riley, Wand.... gone. Walker.. gone

Lundy fumbles the ball on the Inianapolis 16 yard line. Inactive for 3 games.

David fumbles on the Hou 16 & Hou 26 of the same game...... slap on the hand.

David fumbles on the Hou 42, Hou 29, & the Washington 46...... slap on the hand.

David fumbles on the Mia 45(not his fault, ball was stripped)....... slap on the hand.

David fumbles on the Hou 46(returned for a touchdown with 18 seconds left in the half), & the Tenn 26..... benched for 1.5 Qtrs.......


seems pretty fair to me.

What you've done is made sure that you've built Carr up to be the problem and thus exonerate everyone else.

At least I am consistent.

You, on the other hand, prior to the draft, had said that Carr was "Your boy" and that you had his back.

Then, most of the summer you relentlessly bashed him. Then, when it was pointed out to you that you were inconsistent on your views, you admitted it and then swung back to backing Carr again.

And now?

Now you're back to an obvious "David's the problem" stance. Salaam was just as much at fault for last Sunday as Carr. As was Weigert. As was AJ dropping much-needed 3rd down passes, even allowing one to bounce in the air and get intercepted. As was Stanley for (1) No hang time and (2) No directional punt to pin the guy against a sideline and limit his escape route choices. As was an awful playcalling scenario just before half that looked bizarre to say the least...it was a disaster waiting to happen. As was 12 men in the huddle.

See where I am going?

I ADMIT DAVID SHOULD BE BENCHED.

But YOU don't admit that annnnnnnnybody else should also be benched for poor performance. I'm talking about poor performance in terms of the BASICS of football. The BASICS. The rest of the team has its fair share of poor performers and all I want to see is Kubiak follow up his benching of Carr with more benchings when people continue to fail to do the basics.

AJ has been plagued by drops. Period. There's no getting around that. But it gets overlooked because he catches TDs. Well, somebody is THROWING those TDs to him, right? Therefore, it's a two-sided coin here: We need to spread around the culpability a little when it's called for.

It was called for last Sunday, IMO. And that has people angry at me because I dare say it. Too bad.

tsip
11-03-2006, 12:18 PM
"Nobody was criticizing Carr until the Tennessee game, even though he botched the Dallas game & the Indy game almost single handedly. "

Until the Titans played well and almost beat Indy and did beat the Skins (teams that 'blew' the Texans out), this Tenn/Hou game was on 'everyone's' list of teams we'd beat-hands down-this year. Along with the Raiders, there was no way we'd lose this game--Vince Young or not. We were coming off our best performance of the year with our victory over the Jags, and the Titans were in our 'sights' like a startled deer....

David should have been 'all over' the Titans-not only putting up his best #'s of the year so far-but, more importantly, leading us to a win. Instead, Carr 'laid an egg' and it certainly wasn't golden...

We expected to get beat by the Colts and the Cowboys so-despite his 'less than spectacular' performances against them- we didn't blame Carr. The Titan loss, coupled with Carr's abysmal effort, was not...and was not in a big way an 'expected/accepted' loss.

VY vs Mario? No. VY vs DC? Yes. In this game and maybe just for this game so far, Young showed he has 'it'- whatever it takes to win. No. he didn't have 'great' stats.' But, while throwing for a TD and running for a TD, he showed what many on the board 'suspected' all along...

'Crunch time?' 'Any time?' In Carr, we-as fans-don't know from one game to the next 'which' DC will show up and--we've never seen Carr have a 'lights out' game of 400+ yds or 4+ TDs- so it's not like IMO we're being unreasonable to expect a 'little' more from David...rise to the 'occasion.'

JMO, but we-as fans-only have so much left in the 'gas tank' for Carr. He is going to have to do whatever he has to do to 'get' out of himself whatever he has in his 'heart and soul' to 'elevate' his play on the field. Personally, I don't believe Carr is a 'crunch time QB,'...i.e., the QB you want to have on the field with the ball in his hands on the final drive of the game, hoping to score the winning TD...but, he should--after 4+ years--be able to be a consistent QB on the field who doesn't make the same mistakes over and over and over....:twocents: :brickwall :confused: :deadhorse

thunderkyss
11-03-2006, 12:38 PM
What you've done is made sure that you've built Carr up to be the problem and thus exonerate everyone else.

At least I am consistent.

You, on the other hand, prior to the draft, had said that Carr was "Your boy" and that you had his back.

Yeah, I tried, but I couldn't do it. All this David is having a great year crap, and he only had one bad game.... there was one game, I think it was Washington where someone said we'd have won a game by then if the rest of the team would play as well as David. and all this our passing game is working, if only we had a rushing game........ 220 yards isn't working.... it's barely functioning.. it's sputtering. when we get 380 yards of offense, and only 40 yards rushing, then we can say, "Man if only our rushing game was as good as our passing game."

Then, most of the summer you relentlessly bashed him. Then, when it was pointed out to you that you were inconsistent on your views, you admitted it and then swung back to backing Carr again.

And now?

I will say that I honestly want Carr to succeed. But it bothers me when people ignore his problems. They blame the Indy game & the Washington Game on our defense...... our offense couldn't stay on the field..... Carr gave them 10 points, and lundy gave them 7... how you going to blame our defense??

They say we couldn't force a three & out..... but we forced two 3 & outs int he first half of the Washington game... & then it's like, "well we didn't force a 3 & out in the second half"....

this week alone, I've bashed Carr, when I thought he needed to be bashed, I've given him props when I thought he deserved props........

Now you're back to an obvious "David's the problem" stance.

That is where the problem is..... through all my Carr bashing, I've never said Carr was the problem. I've never said we lost games, because Carr did this, or didn't do that.

Just like above, I said Carr gave Indy 10 points, which he did...... but I didn't say we lost that game because of Carr. There were other things that did/didn't happen that lead to the loss.... but Carr's finger is in the pot, just like everyone elses.

Salaam was just as much at fault for last Sunday as Carr.


no,no, no......... hell no.

Salaam has given up one hit on David in the last three games. David has turned the ball over in 2 of the last three...... WTF are you talking about??



As was Weigert. As was AJ dropping much-needed 3rd down passes, even allowing one to bounce in the air and get intercepted. As was Stanley for (1) No hang time and (2) No directional punt to pin the guy against a sideline and limit his escape route choices. As was an awful playcalling scenario just before half that looked bizarre to say the least...it was a disaster waiting to happen. As was 12 men in the huddle.

See where I am going?

I ADMIT DAVID SHOULD BE BENCHED.

But YOU don't admit that annnnnnnnybody else should also be benched for poor performance. I'm talking about poor performance in terms of the BASICS of football. The BASICS. The rest of the team has its fair share of poor performers and all I want to see is Kubiak follow up his benching of Carr with more benchings when people continue to fail to do the basics.

We've played 7 games this year. in 5 of those 7 games, we can point to David as a part of the reason for at least one turnover that led directly to points on the opponents board. I can't say the same for any other player, unless we go so far as to say Wiegart let this guy hit David 2 plays before he threw that interception.

AJ has been plagued by drops. Period. There's no getting around that. But it gets overlooked because he catches TDs. Well, somebody is THROWING those TDs to him, right? Therefore, it's a two-sided coin here: We need to spread around the culpability a little when it's called for.

Everybody drops balls...... just like every QB overthrows a ball. If you want to count all of AJs mistakes, and Count all of Carr's mistakes..... we'd have to wonder why Carr is still on this team. We can even go David's mistakes vs the WRs & David's # will be far more than theirs.......

it's like that on every team, do you know why?? because the QB has more opportunity to mess up than any other player on the field.

If AJ caused a turnover because of his brick hands in 5 of the 7 games we've played, or if he is fumbling the ball as he's trying to juke 4 tacklers because David threw him the ball on the wrong side of the 1st down marker, I gaurantee you AJ would not be on this team. There wouldn't be no benching, or inactive period. Aj would be gone.

It was called for last Sunday, IMO. And that has people angry at me because I dare say it. Too bad.

That's not why we are angry with you.........

Runner
11-03-2006, 12:43 PM
Salaam has given up one hit on David in the last three games.

What??????

I guess I need definitions for Salaam, one, hit, David, three, last, and games.

DRAMA
11-03-2006, 12:45 PM
What??????

I guess I need definitions for Salaam, one, hit, David, three, last, and games.

:redtowel:

Now that's funny...

thunderkyss
11-03-2006, 12:54 PM
What??????

I guess I need definitions for Salaam, one, hit, David, three, last, and games.

Salaam only gave up one hit on David against Tennessee.

four false starts, one hit on David.

Now there was one hit, that came from the left, as Owen was trying to fight off the DE.... Salaam came over late to help, but I wouldn't blame Salaam because Owen couldn't hold his guy for a second.

Runner
11-03-2006, 01:06 PM
What??????

I guess I need definitions for Salaam, one, hit, David, three, last, and games.

Salaam only gave up one hit on David against Tennessee.

four false starts, one hit on David.

Now there was one hit, that came from the left, as Owen was trying to fight off the DE.... Salaam came over late to help, but I wouldn't blame Salaam because Owen couldn't hold his guy for a second.

Are you saying:
last three games = Tennessee
and
hit = sack?

Salaam's man hit Carr several times just after release of the ball and a few times just after someone else's man hit him.

Salaam is not playing aywhere near the level you are trying to credit him for.

thunderkyss
11-03-2006, 04:42 PM
Are you saying:
last three games = Tennessee
and
hit = sack?

Salaam's man hit Carr several times just after release of the ball and a few times just after someone else's man hit him.

Salaam is not playing aywhere near the level you are trying to credit him for.

No that's not true.......

yes he is.

I'm not the only one who rewatches the games.... I'd love for anyone to confirm or deny what I've said. But.. the only time Salaam's man hit David in the Tennessee game was on the sack by KVB, when David fumbled the ball before the end of the half..... Salaam's man got there right after.

There is another play where Owen is trying to block the DE, Salaam is on a double with Pitts, and comes to help Owen, but by the time he gets there, it was too late.

There were many hits I believe that looked like they came from the left, but Flanagan was the culprit, more often than not.

Yankee_In_TX
11-03-2006, 04:47 PM
David Carr is officially on notice.

http://a330.g.akamai.net/7/330/2540/20051019201906/www.variety.com/graphics/photos/reviewc/rcolbertshow.jpg

That is hands down, no questions asked, the funniest thing that has EVER been said on this board.

Now follow it up with a picture of the Board, with Carr's name on top!

Honoring Earl 34
11-03-2006, 05:13 PM
The Carr drama in a nutshell is ... some folks think he's a victim and some of the brighter , better looking folks think he's an accomplace .

JDizzle
11-03-2006, 07:04 PM
That is hands down, no questions asked, the funniest thing that has EVER been said on this board.

Now follow it up with a picture of the Board, with Carr's name on top!

Here you go ... enjoy!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v373/jmott1/OnNotice-1.jpg

Runner
11-04-2006, 01:05 AM
I'm not the only one who rewatches the games.... I'd love for anyone to confirm or deny what I've said. But.. the only time Salaam's man hit David in the Tennessee game was on the sack by KVB, when David fumbled the ball before the end of the half..... Salaam's man got there right after.

There is another play where Owen is trying to block the DE, Salaam is on a double with Pitts, and comes to help Owen, but by the time he gets there, it was too late.

There were many hits I believe that looked like they came from the left, but Flanagan was the culprit, more often than not.

1) The Owen Daniels play you mention happened at 8:31 in the first quarter. I know you won't believe this, but that hit was absolutely Salaam's responsibility. He chose to double Pitts's man and leave Daniels hanging out trying to block the defensive end one on one. The TE is supposed to help the tackle, not vice versa. Salaam blew his assignment and Carr was hit as he threw into quad coverage. Even if (and that's a big if) he was supposed to double Pitts's man then turn to the end he did it much too slowly.

2) At 9:15 in the second quarter Salaam's man nailed Carr and it was taken back because of a poor call in the Texans' favor. I'll bet you Carr still felt it though. I'm also sure Salaam didn't get a "good job" in the film review of that play.

3) After that came the hit that caused the fumble with 8 seconds left. Salaam's man had a hit on that play as you said.

4) At 12:07 in the third quarter Salaam's man blows by him and forces the fumble that gets Carr benched. Salaam's man is the only player who touched Carr.

I stopped re-watching at this point, because we are talking about the hits Salaam allowed on Carr and Carr was then out of the game.

By my count in a little over one half of play that was four hits on Carr by Salaam's man. I have to assume you would get dicey and say #1 and # 2 don't count. That still leaves two clear hits in a little over one half.

Salaam has given up one hit on David in the last three games.

Are you standing by the conclusion that he gave up no hits against Dallas and Jacksonville? Your argument looks pretty weak to me already since he gave up four in a little over a half against Tennessee.

I'm not the only one who rewatches the games.... I'd love for anyone to confirm or deny what I've said.

Consider it denied.

FanFromCali
11-04-2006, 09:14 AM
The fact is this, we all better hope the Carr does well because if you think this year is a roller coaster wait until next year when the team is breaking in Brian Brohm. This year was supposed to be our "one step back, two steps forward" season.

Plus I was hoping that number one pick would be used to help the OL, DB, or LB position.

brewhaus
11-04-2006, 09:26 AM
The fact is this, we all better hope the Carr does well because if you think this year is a roller coaster wait until next year when the team is breaking in Brian Brohm. This year was supposed to be our "one step back, two steps forward" season.

Plus I was hoping that number one pick would be used to help the OL, DB, or LB position.


...you really think so? Brohm?

bah007
11-04-2006, 11:50 AM
We wont have a top 5 pick so we wont get Brohm.

Honoring Earl 34
11-04-2006, 12:07 PM
Carr throwing for 200 yards tommorow ... over or under ?

Carr getting sacked 5 times ... over or under ?

Carr lasting into the 3rd quarter ... over or under ?

bah007
11-04-2006, 01:21 PM
Carr throwing for 200 yards tommorow ... over or under ?

Carr getting sacked 5 times ... over or under ?

Carr lasting into the 3rd quarter ... over or under ?

200 yds - over (225)

5 sacks - under (4)

playing the whole game - definitely

thunderkyss
11-04-2006, 03:22 PM
1) The Owen Daniels play you mention happened at 8:31 in the first quarter. I know you won't believe this, but that hit was absolutely Salaam's responsibility. He chose to double Pitts's man and leave Daniels hanging out trying to block the defensive end one on one. The TE is supposed to help the tackle, not vice versa. Salaam blew his assignment and Carr was hit as he threw into quad coverage. Even if (and that's a big if) he was supposed to double Pitts's man then turn to the end he did it much too slowly.

I said the same thing when Lundy allowed the hit on David...... Kevin Mathis on Wali Lundy, can you imagine?? But people here said Wali screwed up, and he was given credit for that sack....

But a tight-end should be able to do better than what Owen did on that play(and he usually does) as been said before, we don't know who was responsible for what, we can only talk about what we see. I'd bet Daniels will get the blame on that one all by his lonesome.

For anyone else who wants to see the play, this is the INT David threw early in the game.

2) At 9:15 in the second quarter Salaam's man nailed Carr and it was taken back because of a poor call in the Texans' favor. I'll bet you Carr still felt it though. I'm also sure Salaam didn't get a "good job" in the film review of that play.

I didn't know how to count that hit, or what to say. That was the low blow by KyleVandenbosh..... David looks like he decides to take off, and VandenBosh grabs a leg.

had David stayed in the pocket, and KVB was no where near David, he would have been able to step into the pocket, and throw the ball. Salaam wasn't beat on that play, David try to run past Salaam, and Salaam's man came off his block and got David, after he was already down. thanks to KVB....

Yes, David still felt it, but no, I didn't count it.......


3) After that came the hit that caused the fumble with 8 seconds left. Salaam's man had a hit on that play as you said.

4) At 12:07 in the third quarter Salaam's man blows by him and forces the fumble that gets Carr benched. Salaam's man is the only player who touched Carr.

Yes, I was wrong. I hadn't rewatched the second half till today..... figuring David was only in for a few plays, what are the odds that Salaam allowed a hit on David in that short time.

but you are correct, LaBoy beats him(with a great move) David is sacked, and we lose possesion of the football.

I stopped re-watching at this point, because we are talking about the hits Salaam allowed on Carr and Carr was then out of the game.

By my count in a little over one half of play that was four hits on Carr by Salaam's man. I have to assume you would get dicey and say #1 and # 2 don't count. That still leaves two clear hits in a little over one half.

Are you standing by the conclusion that he gave up no hits against Dallas and Jacksonville? Your argument looks pretty weak to me already since he gave up four in a little over a half against Tennessee.

Consider it denied.

I still count 2 hits from Salaam's man...... not great, but not as bad as what is being said. I would stand by no hits from Salaam's man in the Dallas game, Jacksonville, I need to go rewatch...... which isn't a bad game to rewatch.

Now you rewatched the Tennessee game, you say 4 hits from Salaam's man. Is that good?? or bad?? do we expect Salaam to shut down his man on every play??

We didn't time any of these hits.. should we take that into consideration, or are they supposed to maintain their blocks until the whistle blows??

These 4 hits would constitute hits & pressures coming from Salaam's man.. right?? Did you see anything else get past Salaam as you rewatched the game??

David dropped back 25/28 times, how do you judge Salaam's game based on the 4 hits??

Did you see the poor game Flanagan had?? how many times he got beat?? Aren't you curious as to why Flanagan hasn't been discussed in this whole fiasco??

Runner
11-04-2006, 04:56 PM
I still count 2 hits from Salaam's man...... not great, but not as bad as what is being said. I would stand by no hits from Salaam's man in the Dallas game, Jacksonville, I need to go rewatch...... which isn't a bad game to rewatch.

Now you rewatched the Tennessee game, you say 4 hits from Salaam's man. Is that good?? or bad?? do we expect Salaam to shut down his man on every play??

We didn't time any of these hits.. should we take that into consideration, or are they supposed to maintain their blocks until the whistle blows??

These 4 hits would constitute hits & pressures coming from Salaam's man.. right?? Did you see anything else get past Salaam as you rewatched the game??

David dropped back 25/28 times, how do you judge Salaam's game based on the 4 hits??

Did you see the poor game Flanagan had?? how many times he got beat?? Aren't you curious as to why Flanagan hasn't been discussed in this whole fiasco??

Is 4 hits by Salaam's man good or bad? Let's extrapolate. 4 hits in a half would be 8 hits in a game. If each of the 5 lineman did that it would be 40 hits in a game. That is bad.

How well Flanagan played really has nothing to do with my point that Salaam is playing poorly. However, it wouldn't surprise me if he is doing poorly too. As I've said before, Weigert is just as bad or worse than Salaam is. There is plenty of badness for everyone to get some credit. I just took exception to the statement that Salaam is playing well.

We have a competent back-up for Flanagan on the roster - he can be replaced. We don't have competent back-ups for both Weigert and Salaam at the same time. That is a problem with our roster management.

thunderkyss
11-04-2006, 04:59 PM
Is 4 hits by Salaam's man good or bad? Let's extrapolate. 4 hits in a half would be 8 hits in a game. If each of the 5 lineman did that it would be 40 hits in a game. That is bad.


That's 4 hits in 3 Qtrs... That's only 5 per game.

& I'm not saying Salaam is playing well, I'm saying Salaam had one bad game.

Runner
11-04-2006, 05:08 PM
That's 4 hits in 3 Qtrs... That's only 5 per game.

& I'm not saying Salaam is playing well, I'm saying Salaam had one bad game.

OK, let's quibble:

2 quarters + 3 minutes of the 3rd quarter. 3/15 = 1/5.

2.2 quarters. However, Salaam missed some plays in the second quarter, so he probably played less than 2 quarters worth of football.

I gave him the benefit of the doubt saying 2 quarters. :)


Also, you said he gave up one hit in three games. That isn't exactly saying he had one bad game. I really don't want to look at the Dallas and Jacksonville games either. I already want the 30 minutes of my life back I spent rewatching the Tennessee game last night.

JDizzle
11-04-2006, 05:22 PM
Salaam was backing up a rookie LT, so I don't think we need to be expecting much out of him. It just goes to show you how thin we are on the OL. He's a sore spot on the OL but so is Wiegert, who gets paid more. I wonder how things would work if we moved Pitts back to LT, Wiegert back to RG (where he should be), and Salaam to RT. But, apparently Carr has more than one blind spot to protect, so we're probably F'd anyway.

camisgirl
11-04-2006, 05:30 PM
I don't think they are going to just give up on him like that.

HJam72
11-04-2006, 06:43 PM
Talking about helping Pitts, that's the last guy I would be having other people help. If Pitts (our best O-linemen) can't handle his man 1-on-1, then we're screwed anyway, and Salaam (arguably our weakest--AT LT NO LESS) is the last guy I'd have helping him even if I did send help his way. Salaam is the one who needs help.

Salaam and Weigart--hmmm, anybody think we should use two TEs? Or did we try that last Sunday? I didn't get to see it.

TK_Gamer
11-04-2006, 09:26 PM
Interesting take on the situation. I said well before the preseason that Carr had no future in Houston based on the fans. Now lets add to that what Kubiak has done.

To begin with Kubiak has taught Carr how to do some things such as how to handle the ball and do a better play fake. I've said from the beginning that Carr was and never has been skilled at handing off the ball. His forte plain and simple is the pass. That skill has been buried in the dirt of Reliant Stadium.

Has Kubiak improved the O-line?

Has Kubiak improved the Running game?

Has Kubiak allowed David to stretch the field?

Did Kubiak call the same plays when Sage was playing?

The answer to all of the above is no and I really do wonder what Kubiak is trying to do. Kubiak's game management leaves a lot to be desired. In the last 2 minutes before the half in the last game, he called Capers like plays. We know we are going to have the ball to start the 2nd half and yet we do not take a shot at the end zone. A deep intercepted pass is the same as a punt and probably a lot less close to the end zone and probably a lot less dangerouse as far as a return is concerned. The Titans would have sat on the ball given they had a lead and a young QB. That was the way Fisher was playing the game. At least they would have had to go one heck of a lot further than they did when the fumble occurred.

To be honest I have found very little to be happy about with Kubiak's play calling. I think a lot of us thought he would be a dynamic caller. At this point I would love to see Carr call a game on his own. If he is to go down in flames it might as well be at his own hands. The two times Carr has been his own play caller we have done well.

What is so great about Kubiak's play calling. Manning calls his own plays - some of you question that - but he does and nobody over rules him. I'm still an old time fan who believes the QB as general should call his plays. Whether its Carr or Sage I believe they should call their plays. Kubiak has no feel for the game on the field. He is not standing in the shoes of the QB even though he has been one. He doesn't see what the O-line is doing or feeling. Only the QB in the huddle is able to quiz and knows what is happening. He alone can help his line by calling plays to assist and take advantage of what the other team is doing. Kubiak is trying to micro manage like so many coaches do and he's screwing up this team. LEAVE THE PLAY CALLING TO THE QB's.......

first of all, great post. I have tried to bring this up several times and my post just gets lost in the thread. I'm gonna take it one step further and combine it with another thought someone brought up about Carr never being more than average. I think about carr's games in the past, even when capers was here and I see the same pattern. even when Carr does a good job and we are close at the half, we have never just went for the jugular and let Carr put the other team away. we end up playing a micro managed, kill the clock , dont make any mistakes kinda offense and guess what happens, we make a mistake anyway and kill whatever momentum we may have had. I dont carr has ever had a great game untill the jaguars game because he hasnt been allowed to. Kubiak said when he came here he was gonna play to win all the time, well I havent seen anything yet to improve over capers on the play calling side. IMHO.

TK_Gamer
11-04-2006, 09:52 PM
The Carr drama in a nutshell is ... some folks think he's a victim and some of the brighter , better looking folks think he's an accomplace .

I think you give yourself too much credit, or others not enough. noone is saying or has said "Carr is great , makes no mistakes and is only being kept down from inferior play and coaching around him" we all Know Carr is a project and he's not smooth and hes not perfect. some just think the whole team should be scrutinized as closely as David Carr is .

BlueThunder
11-04-2006, 09:56 PM
All you have to do to beat the Giants is run the ball,control the clock and force Manning out of the pocket.He likes to go to a 2 minute offense so take your time clearing the pile..There are three players you have to take out of there game Burris Tiki and Manning.I would go after Manning every play from somewhere..Bill Parcells can't beat the Giants because he won't go after the QB.The best thing you can do is force him to over think and confuse the offense with shifts and stunts.Manning is good and you can hit him but he will get up and burn you again.It is hard to stop this guy but if you can get him running and rattle him he will make game changing mistakes..

I've been watching and I don't think Carr is the answer!!The season is over so you may as well face it..The offense suks the defense suks and your leading rusher has 266 yards..Were getting ready to tear this team apart..You better get a QB that can run this offense and Rosenfield is our only hope.I'm not mad at anyone ,,,i'm mad at everyone!We need to find out if the QB can help because the offense is the problem with everything.I'm getting ready to go over everything.Then i'll come back with answers.I would change the QB and go vertical..Its time this team gets rid of the dink and dunk and earn respect.

This is about the worst excuse for a defense you could have.This team need to go back to the basics because they can't do anything.They can't stop the run and they can't stop the pass...We need a player that can tackle first..All I can say is get somke consistancy in the offense..Then will get the run defense and the secondary

TK_Gamer
11-05-2006, 08:22 AM
A lot of people have him pegged as a Trent Dilfer type QB (who he's good friends with, btw). Put a good, solid team around him, with a dominant defense, and he can probably be consistent enough to not lose games. Dilfer has a ring, so this isn't a slam on either QB. I just don't see Carr as the type of player in the vein of the 'greats', who can raise everyone around them to play better and often take games to new levels by their sheer willpower.

I dont see Carr as another trent dilfer, I think he has skills and natural ability in spades over dilfer. you know what the saddest part of the whole Carr story is gonna be? Carr will probably never get a chance as a Texan to play with even an average offensive line. and before everyone jumps on me saying "thats the same old excuse". I'm not making an excuse, I'm saying I REALLY wanted to see Carr in action with some decent protection. I think alot of you did also. the whole boselli thing just started Carr on a road wich seemed doomed from the start and nothing was really done to fix it. so now Carr is gun-shy and could be damaged goods. If he has the spirit and the perserverence maybe he can pull out of it, but I think its too late. I just hope if he gets traded he goes to a team that has some form of protection up front.

real
11-06-2006, 08:39 AM
Kyss & Runner.....Question.......

How do y'all know what responsibilities the players have ??

Hulk75
11-06-2006, 08:45 AM
Kyss & Runner.....Question.......

How do y'all know what responsibilities the players have ??

They dont for sure, they guess most the time.

I will believe Runners stuff before Thunders< this guy speaks from both sides of his mouth.

thunderkyss
11-06-2006, 08:49 AM
They dont for sure, they guess most the time.

I will believe Runners stuff before Thunders< this guy speaks from both sides of his mouth.

hmmmm.......

Runner
11-06-2006, 09:23 AM
Kyss & Runner.....Question.......

How do y'all know what responsibilities the players have ??

They dont for sure, they guess most the time.


I assume you are talking about this statement:

1) The Owen Daniels play you mention happened at 8:31 in the first quarter. I know you won't believe this, but that hit was absolutely Salaam's responsibility. He chose to double Pitts's man and leave Daniels hanging out trying to block the defensive end one on one. The TE is supposed to help the tackle, not vice versa. Salaam blew his assignment and Carr was hit as he threw into quad coverage. Even if (and that's a big if) he was supposed to double Pitts's man then turn to the end he did it much too slowly.


Speaking for myself, here's where my guess came from.

I asked a Texans player last week, "I was looking at the play where Carr got hit pretty hard after throwing the ball into quadruple coverage. Why would the offense be set up to have a tight end blocking a defensive end on a pass play?" Then I listened to what he said and summarized what I heard the best I could.

Therefore, I'm pretty comfortable with my guess in this case.

real
11-06-2006, 09:30 AM
Speaking for myself, here's where my guess came from.

I asked a Texans player last week, "I was looking at the play where Carr got hit pretty hard after throwing the ball into quadruple coverage. Why would the offense be set up to have a tight end blocking a defensive end on a pass play?" Then I listened to what he said and summarized what I heard the best I could.


I don't know what to say about that other than.......o.k

thunderkyss
11-06-2006, 09:36 AM
I don't know what to say about that other than.......o.k

I clearly stated I have no idea who was supposed to do what..... & I was only reporting what I saw.

Owen had the DE(as he does in many plays) Salaam came to help him but the DE had already beat Owen by the time Salaam got there.

real
11-06-2006, 09:50 AM
I clearly stated I have no idea who was supposed to do what..... & I was only reporting what I saw.

Owen had the DE(as he does in many plays) Salaam came to help him but the DE had already beat Owen by the time Salaam got there.

Im not saying y'all are wrong....I don't even know the play....but you all were arguing about something which IMO, can't really be determined outside of the Texan film meetings....

As an offensive lineman you don't really have assignments...you have rules...because generally you don't know how the defense is going to line up, and you don't know who is going to blitz or not....

I didn't see the play, but if the DT was in a 2, or 3 technique(head up or outside shoulder of the gaurd) and the DE was head up or slightly outside of Daniels, then I could absolutely see Salaam's responsiblity to be to give help to the Gaurd first since that DT would be the closest threat....

But my point is that blocking schemes are so complex, and they most likely change week to week depending on what defense the opponents play and also the personel.... I just don't see how anyone outside of the meeting room can say what they were "supposed to do"....

Runner
11-06-2006, 09:55 AM
I didn't see the play, but if the DT was in a 2, or 3 technique(head up or outside shoulder of the gaurd) and the DE was head up or slightly outside of Daniels, then I could absolutely see Salaam's responsiblity to be to give help to the Gaurd first since that DT would be the closest threat....

But my point is that blocking schemes are so complex, and they most likely change week to week depending on what defense the opponents play and also the personel.... I just don't see how anyone outside of the meeting room can say what they were "supposed to do"....

Agreed - the o-line job is complex and lots of things go into the choices a lineman makes after reading a defense and hearing the line call. The defensive tackle was the closest threat, sure - they always are. But he was going one on one with Pitts, vs. the end going one on one with Daniels. At best, Salaam's responsibility was to punch Pitts's man and turn outside quickly. He stayed engaged with the tackle too long.

real
11-06-2006, 09:57 AM
Agreed - the o-line job is complex and lots of things go into the choices a lineman makes after reading a defense and hearing the line call. The defensive tackle was closer, sure. But he was going one on one with Pitts, vs. the end going one on one with Daniels. At best, Salaam's responsibility was to punch Pitts's man and turn outside quickly. He stayed engaged with the tackle too long.

That sounds about right....

thunderkyss
11-06-2006, 10:02 AM
That sounds about right....

But what if the DT was in the 3 position, and got off the ball quicker than Pitts, needing more help, and Salaam had to push him over in front of Pitts....

wolfscar
11-06-2006, 10:07 AM
You better get a QB that can run this offense and Rosenfield is our only hope.I'm not mad at anyone ,,,i'm mad at everyone!We need to find out if the QB can help because the offense is the problem with everything.I'm getting ready to go over everything.Then i'll come back with answers.

This is about the worst excuse for a defense you could have.This team need to go back to the basics because they can't do anything.They can't stop the run and they can't stop the pass...We need a player that can tackle first..All I can say is get somke consistancy in the offense..Then will get the run defense and the secondary

What? Worst excuse for a defense? A player that can tackle - you mean like Ryans, Weaver, Earl ... ? Who's Rosenfield? What?
Oh no wait - he's going to come back with the answers. Okay - everyone can relax now, apparently everything is in hand. :shoot:

real
11-06-2006, 10:18 AM
But what if the DT was in the 3 position, and got off the ball quicker than Pitts, needing more help, and Salaam had to push him over in front of Pitts....

If he was supposed to help and he felt the DT beating Pitts then he should've stayed...

But you know....A lot of this blocking stuff just depends......There are so many factors that it's not even funny....OL is really complex and it's kind of hard for us regular fans to crack the code and figure out their assignments......

But on our OL and Sacks...Something I noticed about David is that he can't step up in the pocket to save his life....If we are going to ever get deep complex routes David is going to have to be able to step up in the pocket....Even the long throws that we have been throwing have been just fly routes...9's...stop and go's.....Where are the deep crossing routes that take 3-3.5 seconds to develop???

On one play I remember David just drifting...drifting OUT of the pocket only to be hit as he released the ball causing an incompletion....as an O-lineman that has got to be frusrating...

thunderkyss
11-06-2006, 10:44 AM
If he was supposed to help and he felt the DT beating Pitts then he should've stayed...

But you know....A lot of this blocking stuff just depends......There are so many factors that it's not even funny....OL is really complex and it's kind of hard for us regular fans to crack the code and figure out their assignments......


I understand, & I'm not trying to argue that Salaam did the right thing, or the wrong thing. I said I don't know what he was supposed to do, I was just going to say what he did do.

You said we have no idea what he was supposed to do, and you didn't know which play we were talking about.

Runner said he was supposed to punch the DT, then go help Owen.

You said that sounds right........

Then I gave you a scenario where punching the DT might not have been enough.

Then you tell me that it's too complicated to guess.......

But I'm not guessing, I gave you a what if.

& if we don't believe our TE can block a DE one on one....... then why is he our TE??

real
11-06-2006, 10:48 AM
Runner said he was supposed to punch the DT, then go help Owen.

You said that sounds right........



I'm just saying that what he said sounded reasonable....Meaning I could see that as a possible scenario....

I said the same thing about what you said just in more depth....

I can see what both of you all are saying...but my point was...it's like the question....how many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie roll pop....

and we all know the answer to that one....

TexanFanInCC
11-06-2006, 10:57 AM
a little tidbit i have about carr. when he did the little jump-shot to the fans in NY, at first i thought it was funny, but i realize that it was stupid because 1) we lost the game, and 2)we only scored 10 points, and 3) david carr is coming off a benching and shouldnt be worrying about making useless gestures to the fans but rather worrying about winning some games for a change. carr's numbers werent bad, but the offense was inefficient. it was cool when mario did the jump-shot because he played well and did his job. carr did not.

real
11-06-2006, 11:07 AM
a little tidbit i have about carr. when he did the little jump-shot to the fans in NY, at first i thought it was funny, but i realize that it was stupid because 1) we lost the game, and 2)we only scored 10 points, and 3) david carr is coming off a benching and shouldnt be worrying about making useless gestures to the fans but rather worrying about winning some games for a change. carr's numbers werent bad, but the offense was inefficient. it was cool when mario did the jump-shot because he played well and did his job. carr did not.

puuuuhhhhleeeeez.......

How are you going to tell the guy how to act after he just scored the go ahead TD....put his body on the line and just led the Texans on a long drive for a much needed score....Why does he have to keep his emotions in check....The guy was excited, and dammit I was excited for him.....give the guy a break....that's so trivial......

supertankman
11-06-2006, 11:10 AM
a little tidbit i have about carr. when he did the little jump-shot to the fans in NY, at first i thought it was funny, but i realize that it was stupid because 1) we lost the game, and 2)we only scored 10 points, and 3) david carr is coming off a benching and shouldnt be worrying about making useless gestures to the fans but rather worrying about winning some games for a change. carr's numbers werent bad, but the offense was inefficient. it was cool when mario did the jump-shot because he played well and did his job. carr did not.

Man, did you watch the game? Explain how Carr did not do his job, yes, I was one of those that thought he would not bounce back after last week against the titans especially against this tough Giants defense that beat Dallas. Well, after what I saw today, you can not put this blame on Carr, he was making a run to win the game and Cook simply fumbled the ball. The Texas played the Giants alot better then Dallas did and showed alot of heart and the players really seemed to rally with Carr after he showed balls and jumped into the inzone!

Enough allready with bashing of the QB! Its a team game and things happen, look at what happend to the Dallas yesterday, 3 seconds on the clock and all they had to do is make the FG, what happens, it gets blocked and one of their players got a face mask penality for 15 yards and as a result, the skins won. Anything can happen in the NFL on any given Sunday, im just happy to see the Texans compete now! All we need is a running game and this will be a good team.

Meloy
11-06-2006, 11:17 AM
a little tidbit i have about carr. when he did the little jump-shot to the fans in NY, at first i thought it was funny, but i realize that it was stupid because 1) we lost the game, and 2)we only scored 10 points, and 3) david carr is coming off a benching and shouldnt be worrying about making useless gestures to the fans but rather worrying about winning some games for a change. carr's numbers werent bad, but the offense was inefficient. it was cool when mario did the jump-shot because he played well and did his job. carr did not.In my mind, if anyone doubts Carr's heart or enthusiasm after that play I do not want to hear it. I think anyone is open to criticism, but Carr took a beating from fans and played much better against Giants. He stood up for the guys who dropped or fumbled the ball this morning on 610. Give credit where it is due.

Texanfan4ever
11-06-2006, 01:38 PM
a little tidbit i have about carr. when he did the little jump-shot to the fans in NY, at first i thought it was funny, but i realize that it was stupid because 1) we lost the game, and 2)we only scored 10 points, and 3) david carr is coming off a benching and shouldnt be worrying about making useless gestures to the fans but rather worrying about winning some games for a change. carr's numbers werent bad, but the offense was inefficient. it was cool when mario did the jump-shot because he played well and did his job. carr did not.


I'd have to go back and look at some of your previous posts, but my guess on why you are so negative is because you love Vince Young????? You are not even from here. What gives? Then again, nevermind. You can still be loving him next year when David and the guys get us to the playoffs. :mario:

Yankee_In_TX
11-06-2006, 03:05 PM
Here you go ... enjoy!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v373/jmott1/OnNotice-1.jpg

lol: lol:

Yankee_In_TX
11-06-2006, 03:32 PM
BTW, it's sad everyone was so busy blah blah blahing about Carr they missed possibly the two of the funniest posts on here, ever :redtowel: