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Nighthawk
10-31-2006, 12:57 PM
Kubiak has made it abundantly clear that "Carr's the guy" and all that, made it even clearer on his radio show that anyone who wants to see another QB on this club has a long wait. He must have taken the job with the requirement that he make Carr into a serviceable QB.

Let's change the name of the club to the David Texans, since it seems they are ready to sacrifice everything for this one player.

For years various people have been wondering why the coaches (yes, Capers, too) would not even try another QB. Some have said that they're afraid that another QB would show Carr up. Others have said "give him a chance."

I say: four and a half years is more than enough chance. I say: this is approaching a sickness.

kfranco_utexas
10-31-2006, 12:59 PM
I don't know how longer I can endure with this franchise. I cant stand losing, losing is not in my vocabulary. The Longhorns have spoiled me. I am starting to believe that Colt McCoy is a better fit for the Texans.

QB75
10-31-2006, 01:00 PM
Kubiak has made it abundantly clear that "Carr's the guy" and all that, made it even clearer on his radio show that anyone who wants to see another QB on this club has a long wait. He must have taken the job with the requirement that he make Carr into a serviceable QB.

Let's change the name of the club to the David Texans, since it seems they are ready to sacrifice everything for this one player.

For years various people have been wondering why the coaches (yes, Capers, too) would not even try another QB. Some have said that they're afraid that another QB would show Carr up. Others have said "give him a chance."

I say: four and a half years is more than enough chance. I say: this is approaching a sickness.

Absolutely agree. Carr's best protection is not from his front line, it appears to be from the front office.

QB75
10-31-2006, 01:01 PM
I don't know how longer I can endure with this franchise. I cant stand losing, losing is not in my vocabulary. The Longhorns have spoiled me. I am starting to believe that Colt McCoy is a better fit for the Texans.

Colt McCoy. Yeah, sure.

JDizzle
10-31-2006, 01:07 PM
I agree. Although I can't force myself to believe Carr will keep his job if he performs like that again. Kubiak said he could win with Carr before TC, but I think he's a smart guy and he knows that winning games is more important than being right about Carr.

kfranco_utexas
10-31-2006, 01:13 PM
Colt McCoy. Yeah, sure.

:sarcasm:
:yawn:

GP
10-31-2006, 01:15 PM
I don't know how longer I can endure with this franchise. I cant stand losing, losing is not in my vocabulary. The Longhorns have spoiled me. I am starting to believe that Colt McCoy is a better fit for the Texans.

What about the long stretch of time when Texas could not beat Oklahoma?

Were you spoiled then?

All of this is cyclical. You have stretches where you win, and you lose. The Patriots were abismal until recently...and guess what: They'll be awful in a few years and it'll run for awhile until things come back around.

People have such short memories. We truly live in a microwave world where all we remember related to sports is what happened last year.

We'll be bad this year and maybe the next. Heck, we might even be bad for longer than that (i.e. Tampa Bay ; New England ; Cincinatti ; etc.). All those teams have had long stretches of awful production on the field.

I'm not leaving this team just because a new coach is attempting to do what he thinks is the best and some of you think Sage is suddenly Superman. Sage wasn't getting pounded and hung out to dry the past four seasons. I kinda' think Kubiak sees that and values what he has in David.

If anything, Kubiak showed David that now it's a deal between them that David has to produce or he's on the bench. No more warm and fuzzy from the coach to the QB...now it's for real. Kubiak feels that David needs a big nudge and not just a pat on the back.

Let's see what happens.

Oh, and by the way...I have no idea why a Pro Bowl receiver was not benched, as well, for dropping two different 3rd down passes that ultimately translated into 14 Titans points after he made those drops. And then we have Salaam and Weakgert killing drives all by themselves and THEY don't get benched. Amazing. I guess the QB is the only player that gets benched?

Look, David stunk. I admit it. But you guys, IMO, are going overboard. This is a process...but your memory of David is the one under the Capers' regime. Heck, I bet even DAVID'S memory of himself is the one with him under the Capers regime. Put yourself in his shoes: It sucked BIG TIME.

All I am asking for is fair and balanced "benching" protocol. Bench EVERYONE who consistently fails to pull their weight (Including Andre Johnson), especially in clutch situations.

jerek
10-31-2006, 01:18 PM
He probably took the job with the requirement that he, oh, I don't know, does what he thinks will give the Houston Texans the best chance to win?

Carr played poorly against Dallas and now the Titans. He's played well against Jacksonville. He's played decently against our other four opponents. I can't fathom how some of you seem to lay awake at night with such a burning desire to see him replaced.

Funny how we absolutely never see or hear from you Nighthawk unless Carr has a bad game. For a fan of the David Texans, you sure seem selective about your post topics.

jerek
10-31-2006, 01:20 PM
I don't know how longer I can endure with this franchise. I cant stand losing, losing is not in my vocabulary. The Longhorns have spoiled me. I am starting to believe that Colt McCoy is a better fit for the Texans.

I lived in Oklahoma for years and couldn't stand the Sooners. Hated hated hated them and their legions of obnoxious fans. Every year I prayed for UT to beat them and every year some loser like Chris Simms would spew 4 interceptions to them and they'd get their lily asses kicked. Your love affair for the Longhorns is commendable if not obviously suffering from memory loss.

TexansLucky13
10-31-2006, 01:21 PM
I don't know how longer I can endure with this franchise. I cant stand losing, losing is not in my vocabulary. The Longhorns have spoiled me. I am starting to believe that Colt McCoy is a better fit for the Texans.

I think I want to throw up after reading that.

Meloy
10-31-2006, 01:25 PM
What about the long stretch of time when Texas could not beat Oklahoma?

Were you spoiled then?

All of this is cyclical. You have stretches where you win, and you lose. The Patriots were abismal until recently...and guess what: They'll be awful in a few years and it'll run for awhile until things come back around.

People have such short memories. We truly live in a microwave world where all we remember related to sports is what happened last year.

We'll be bad this year and maybe the next. Heck, we might even be bad for longer than that (i.e. Tampa Bay ; New England ; Cincinatti ; etc.). All those teams have had long stretches of awful production on the field.

I'm not leaving this team just because a new coach is attempting to do what he thinks is the best and some of you think Sage is suddenly Superman. Sage wasn't getting pounded and hung out to dry the past four seasons. I kinda' think Kubiak sees that and values what he has in David.

If anything, Kubiak showed David that now it's a deal between them that David has to produce or he's on the bench. No more warm and fuzzy from the coach to the QB...now it's for real. Kubiak feels that David needs a big nudge and not just a pat on the back.

Let's see what happens.

Oh, and by the way...I have no idea why a Pro Bowl receiver was not benched, as well, for dropping two different 3rd down passes that ultimately translated into 14 Titans points after he made those drops. And then we have Salaam and Weakgert killing drives all by themselves and THEY don't get benched. Amazing. I guess the QB is the only player that gets benched?

Look, David stunk. I admit it. But you guys, IMO, are going overboard. This is a process...but your memory of David is the one under the Capers' regime. Heck, I bet even DAVID'S memory of himself is the one with him under the Capers regime. Put yourself in his shoes: It sucked BIG TIME.

All I am asking for is fair and balanced "benching" protocol. Bench EVERYONE who consistently fails to pull their weight (Including Andre Johnson), especially in clutch situations.Glad I read your post before doing mine as it would have duplicated a lot. Do I agree with Carr being benched? You betcha! But wait. What about those guys you mentioned? I was yelling at the offensive line. Were they hurt? Yes. Tell that to Carr who gets sacked 4 times a game and is there for evey play. Regardless of who causes a sack it is the QB that gets killed. All pro AJ? Not this game. Well, I guess I repeated your post after all. Sorry. I just wnat fair evals of players by the fans. Kubes can bench who he wants & I'll buy into it for now. Wished others had apologised as did Salaam & Carr. That took class and humility.

hollywood_texan
10-31-2006, 01:30 PM
What about the long stretch of time when Texas could not beat Oklahoma?

Were you spoiled then?



The Longhorns were still winning 10 games a season even though Mack couldn't beat Stoops on a 5 year or so string.

There is no comparison to the Texans now and when the Longhorns couldn't beat Oklahoma for that one stretch.

One player put Texas over the hump and has brought the Texas program to where it is expected to be. Ummm... the Texans passed on that player to keep Carr....

HOU-TEX
10-31-2006, 01:31 PM
He probably took the job with the requirement that he, oh, I don't know, does what he thinks will give the Houston Texans the best chance to win?

Carr played poorly against Dallas and now the Titans. He's played well against Jacksonville. He's played decently against our other four opponents. I can't fathom how some of you seem to lay awake at night with such a burning desire to see him replaced.

Funny how we absolutely never see or hear from you Nighthawk unless Carr has a bad game. For a fan of the David Texans, you sure seem selective about your post topics.

I'm not for or against Carr at this point. I just want someone that can give us a chance to win week in week out. You basically said in a nutshell that DC is inconsistant. I believe he's been this way since he's been here. I know there's been holes up and down this team throughout the past possibly contributing to his misfortunes on the field, but at some point and time losing has to lead back to back to him. If he can turn it around by years end, then I'm all for it. If he can't show consistancy through the remainder of the season and into next year, then he has to move on. I don't want to lose Kubiak due to DCs inability to have success on gameday like he has during the practice week. OK, I'm done.:twocents:

yourfavoritetexan42
10-31-2006, 01:34 PM
good god... lets flip out becaues our qb, despite having the highest completion percentage in the nfl, has one bad outage and we wanna put a fork in him. He is playing, once again, with a crappy offensive line, but this season he is giving us a chance to win week in and week out.

Do I disagree with kubiaks decision sunday?
nope... he was having an off day, we needed the win, give sage a chance to show what he can do.

What this does is in the future if carr has another outing like he did, we can put sage in there maybe a little earlier.

I will be bold and say it right now, David Carr is a great athlete and a good quarterback, I have been a fan of him since his fresno state days. He is definately a top 10 quarterback in this league. If he had an o line like peyton manning...god knows what he would be able to do.

Meloy
10-31-2006, 01:42 PM
good god... lets flip out becaues our qb, despite having the highest completion percentage in the nfl, has one bad outage and we wanna put a fork in him. He is playing, once again, with a crappy offensive line, but this season he is giving us a chance to win week in and week out.

Do I disagree with kubiaks decision sunday?
nope... he was having an off day, we needed the win, give sage a chance to show what he can do.

What this does is in the future if carr has another outing like he did, we can put sage in there maybe a little earlier.

I will be bold and say it right now, David Carr is a great athlete and a good quarterback, I have been a fan of him since his fresno state days. He is definately a top 10 quarterback in this league. If he had an o line like peyton manning...god knows what he would be able to do. One bad outtage. Uh, did you see the Dallas game? I am a big DC fan but call it correctly. David's stats are good for season but has had 2 stinkers. The benching per Kubiac was to get DC's attention. I think it will. Carr is a tough guy. You can't take a beating for 4 1/2 years and not be mentally as well as physically strong. Is he Young or Leaf? Time will tell. Probably in the middle somewhere & that ain't bad.

jerek
10-31-2006, 01:44 PM
The Longhorns were still winning 10 games a season even though Mack couldn't beat Stoops on a 5 year or so string.

There is no comparison to the Texans now and when the Longhorns couldn't beat Oklahoma for that one stretch.

One player put Texas over the hump and has brought the Texas program to where it is expected to be. Ummm... the Texans passed on that player to keep Carr....

And they'd build those 10 win seasons against such powerhouses as Baylor. Sorry but when it came down to playing a team remotely comparable to theirs, UT choked time and time again. "Spoiled by the Longhorns" was a crap comparison.

GP
10-31-2006, 01:50 PM
The Longhorns were still winning 10 games a season even though Mack couldn't beat Stoops on a 5 year or so string.

There is no comparison to the Texans now and when the Longhorns couldn't beat Oklahoma for that one stretch.

One player put Texas over the hump and has brought the Texas program to where it is expected to be. Ummm... the Texans passed on that player to keep Carr....

And how many national championships did the Longhorns win in the time span?

None.

There's only one champ every year, and everyone else is a loser. Makes no difference how far you make it. You lost. "Please Play Again" as it says under the bottle cap. Nobody says, "And then you have to tip your hat to USC who finished in 2nd place behind the Longhorns..." It's an insult. Anything less than the championship is a farce. The players know it. The coaches know it. The owner knows it. Why don't you?

Being able to beat and/or NOT being able to beat Oklahoma is the bread and meat of every UT fan. And the same for every OU fan. And regardless of how many games you win, if you don't beat that team (OU or UT) you ain't going anywhere. In fact, I would argue that this is the only game that fans of those two teams actually care about unless they are playing in the national championship game. The rivalry is THAT big.

You hate Carr. You love UT and Vince. We "get it."

Please continue to remind us.

yourfavoritetexan42
10-31-2006, 01:53 PM
Those 87 passing yards vince has were impressive...

Porky
10-31-2006, 01:55 PM
What about the long stretch of time when Texas could not beat Oklahoma?

Were you spoiled then?

All of this is cyclical. You have stretches where you win, and you lose. The Patriots were abismal until recently...and guess what: They'll be awful in a few years and it'll run for awhile until things come back around.

People have such short memories. We truly live in a microwave world where all we remember related to sports is what happened last year.

We'll be bad this year and maybe the next. Heck, we might even be bad for longer than that (i.e. Tampa Bay ; New England ; Cincinatti ; etc.). All those teams have had long stretches of awful production on the field.

I'm not leaving this team just because a new coach is attempting to do what he thinks is the best and some of you think Sage is suddenly Superman. Sage wasn't getting pounded and hung out to dry the past four seasons. I kinda' think Kubiak sees that and values what he has in David.

If anything, Kubiak showed David that now it's a deal between them that David has to produce or he's on the bench. No more warm and fuzzy from the coach to the QB...now it's for real. Kubiak feels that David needs a big nudge and not just a pat on the back.

Let's see what happens.

Oh, and by the way...I have no idea why a Pro Bowl receiver was not benched, as well, for dropping two different 3rd down passes that ultimately translated into 14 Titans points after he made those drops. And then we have Salaam and Weakgert killing drives all by themselves and THEY don't get benched. Amazing. I guess the QB is the only player that gets benched?

Look, David stunk. I admit it. But you guys, IMO, are going overboard. This is a process...but your memory of David is the one under the Capers' regime. Heck, I bet even DAVID'S memory of himself is the one with him under the Capers regime. Put yourself in his shoes: It sucked BIG TIME.

All I am asking for is fair and balanced "benching" protocol. Bench EVERYONE who consistently fails to pull their weight (Including Andre Johnson), especially in clutch situations.

Apples and oranges. You have to look at their body of work, and who is behind him capable of filling in. In AJ's case, after he bobbled the ball that led to an interception, he made some great catches, and finished with 9 catches. He would have had more had his QB prior to Sage actually undersood how to throw a pass longer than 5 yards. The body of his work, both career and game wise is so far beyond anything Carr can put up. Frankly, it's really quite silly debating it. Finally, who did you want to see in there instead? Walter? Gimme a break. The same thing applies to the line. We know your man love for Carr runs deep, but your making silly arguments that have zero merit. You can do better for your man crush.

hollywood_texan
10-31-2006, 01:55 PM
The problem David Carr has is that he was drafted #1 in 2002. Therefore, there are higher expectations and a lot of money involved.

Carr has not lived up to expectations, even taking into account the offensive line problems. He hasn't been a bust, just a disappointment. There are have been problems with the offense, but because of the money David makes, he should be able to carry the team a bit more. Which he hasn't done.

We now have Kubiak and Sherman running the show and things really aren't that different except for a higher completion percentage and few more throws a game (and few less sacks). The Texans offense is really lucky to get more than 17 points in a game right now and is very flat out in the first half this season. Take out the 4th quarters of the Miami and Jacksonville games, things could be very different.

Some things to note about Carr, he still doesn't run the 2-minute offense and can't get a quality drive late in the game to bring a victory or a seal a win.

Carr is good for about 27 attempts, 20 completions, 200 yards, and 1 TD a game. But that isn't enough because he doesn't make big-big plays. Basically Carr's stats could be done by a lot of other average starting QBs and probably some backups. That is were the problem comes in, because he will have a few very bad plays every couple of games, usually on the road, and he doesn't make for it with huge plays to show he is worth the risk of his potential bad plays.

The Giants game could just get completely way out of hand by the 1st half because the Giants can score some serious points fast. Carr has his worked cut out for him if he wants to start to turn things around. Otherwise, I think we will continue have Carr and still debate the excuses why he doesn't succeed.

TexansFan99
10-31-2006, 01:57 PM
Those 87 passing yards vince has were impressive...

What was impressive was that Vince didn't turn the ball over and successfully managed the game.

If Carr had the football smart, pocket presence, quick-release of Peyton Manning....gods know what he would be able to do....

afcman
10-31-2006, 01:58 PM
I'm looking forward to next yrs draft. And next season. That will say A LOT about the changes, if any, that are being made. And they better do their homework or we'll just be another Arizona and Detroit.

GP
10-31-2006, 02:00 PM
Apples and oranges. You have to look at their body of work, and who is behind him capable of filling in. In AJ's case, after he bobbled the ball that led to an interception, he made some great catches, and finished with 9 catches. He would have had more had his QB prior to Sage actually undersood how to throw a pass longer than 5 yards. The body of his work, both career and game wise is so far beyond anything Carr can put up. Frankly, it's really quite silly debating it. Finally, who did you want to see in there instead? Walter? Gimme a break. The same thing applies to the line. We know your man love for Carr runs deep, but your making silly arguments that have zero merit. You can do better for your man crush.

AJ has had stone hands a lot more than you are admitting.

The DIFFERENCE here is that I admit that AJ is talented, and the Carr haters do not think Carr is. I admit that we need AJ, and I also admit that I think we need Carr.

How frsutrating must it be for a QB to throw a great ball and it gets dropped?

Carr gets judged by things outside of his control (blockers not blocking ; WRs dropping balls ; etc) and the WRs don't get the crap chewed out of them and subsequently benched for dropping clutch passes?

That's messed up. Period.

Has less to do with a man crush, and more to do with fairness and equality.

hollywood_texan
10-31-2006, 02:02 PM
Apples and oranges. You have to look at their body of work, and who is behind him capable of filling in. In AJ's case, after he bobbled the ball that led to an interception, he made some great catches, and finished with 9 catches. He would have had more had his QB prior to Sage actually undersood how to throw a pass longer than 5 yards. The body of his work, both career and game wise is so far beyond anything Carr can put up. Frankly, it's really quite silly debating it. Finally, who did you want to see in there instead? Walter? Gimme a break. The same thing applies to the line. We know your man love for Carr runs deep, but your making silly arguments that have zero merit. You can do better for your man crush.

Exactly, every player is going to make mistakes that cost his team.

However, over a game or a season, does a player make plays that show the net, net is better?

That is Carr's biggest problem, his best game will never overcome a horrbile game and he could have a horrible anytime on the road.

Look at this way, it is okay for a player to lose you a game if he is the reason why you are in the position to win the game in the first place. How has the Carr's play ever put the Texans in the position to win a game?

A win by the Texans usually means the defense plays pretty well, it is a relatively low scoring game, and if they have the lead in the 4th quarter. It usually has very little to do with Carr, or what a lot of other QBs can do in the same position.

GP
10-31-2006, 02:03 PM
Those 87 passing yards vince has were impressive...

Exactly.

But they don't bring out THAT stat, do they?

This was less about Vince Young being Superman, and more about a team that played entirely different when the starter was removed.

Why did they play better?

IMO, because then they KNEW the blame would lay with them if Sage also got rag-dolled like Carr was getting. Everyobody stepped up their game because there's a little thing called "self-preservation" now that Kubiak is at the helm...they know he'll cut the slackers really quick if wants to.

I hope they play like they did in the second half. Regardless of who is at QB.

GP
10-31-2006, 02:06 PM
Exactly, every player is going to make mistakes that cost his team.

However, over a game or a season, does a player make plays that show the net, net is better?

That is Carr's biggest problem, his best game will never overcome a horrbile game and he could have a horrible anytime on the road.

Look at this way, it is okay for a player to lose you a game if he is the reason why you are in the position to win the game in the first place. How has the Carr's play ever put the Texans in the position to win a game?
A win by the Texans usually means the defense plays pretty well, it is a relatively low scoring game, and if they have the lead in the 4th quarter. It usually has very little to do with Carr, or what a lot of other QBs can do in the same position.

LOL!!!

Are you SERIOUS?

I'm not even going to waste my time re-typing the times David carried this team on his shoulders and picked up first downs on his own. There have been plenty times where he clutched up and did the job.

The problem is this: AJ gets to go to the bench and sulk, never getting benched or even yelled at on the sideline...and Carr gets yanked after his o line botched play after play after play after play.

Come on, now. You can do better than that. I respectfulyl disagree with your statement(s).

HOU-TEX
10-31-2006, 02:06 PM
AJ has had stone hands a lot more than you are admitting.

The DIFFERENCE here is that I admit that AJ is talented, and the Carr haters do not think Carr is. I admit that we need AJ, and I also admit that I think we need Carr.

How frsutrating must it be for a QB to throw a great ball and it gets dropped?

Carr gets judged by things outside of his control (blockers not blocking ; WRs dropping balls ; etc) and the WRs don't get the crap chewed out of them and subsequently benched for dropping clutch passes?
.

How frustrating it must be to constantly run routes a whole game only to see the QB make bad throws (in quadruple coverage) or take sacks. You make good points but it's double edge sword. I like both of them as players. I just wish DC would show consistancy.

hollywood_texan
10-31-2006, 02:06 PM
How frsutrating must it be for a QB to throw a great ball and it gets dropped?

How frustrating is it for an offensive line when the QB can't get the ball out of his hands?

There are going to be some dropped balls, just like Carr is going to throw a pick, fumble, or get sacked.

No one is perfect.

Apply the same analysis to Carr as you do to AJ.

So AJ is suppose to catch absolutely everything?

Bottom line is the net, net, Carr can't overcome a bad game with his own play. He is average with a big probability on the road to make huge mistakes.

GP
10-31-2006, 02:09 PM
How frustrating is it for an offensive line when the QB can't get the ball out of his hands?

There are going to be some dropped balls, just like Carr is going to throw a pick, fumble, or get sacked.

No one is perfect.

Apply the same analysis to Carr as you do to AJ.

So AJ is suppose to catch absolutely everything?

Bottom line is the net, net, Carr can't overcome a bad game with his own play. He is average with a big probability on the road to make huge mistakes.

If nobody is open, is that Carr's fault?

Or could it have been a bad call from the coaches?

Or could it have been a great job by the defense to smell it out and cover it?

On a pass play, if things are not available, the Qb is in a reallllly bad position...he's got to eat it for a sack or run. Sometimes you cannot run. Sometimes you throw it where they cannot get to it.

Kubiak has handled David better, getting his TD-to-INT ratio in the right order unlike the previous coaching regime.

Aj doesn't get a free pass. Not when he cost us points, and possibly the game. He didn't have ONE bad drop in a clutch situation. He had two. Carr was told if he fumbled again, he was yanked. Was AJ told that?

eriadoc
10-31-2006, 02:16 PM
What about the long stretch of time when Texas could not beat Oklahoma?

Were you spoiled then?

All of this is cyclical. You have stretches where you win, and you lose. The Patriots were abismal until recently...and guess what: They'll be awful in a few years and it'll run for awhile until things come back around.

People have such short memories. We truly live in a microwave world where all we remember related to sports is what happened last year.

We'll be bad this year and maybe the next. Heck, we might even be bad for longer than that (i.e. Tampa Bay ; New England ; Cincinatti ; etc.). All those teams have had long stretches of awful production on the field.

I'm not leaving this team just because a new coach is attempting to do what he thinks is the best and some of you think Sage is suddenly Superman. Sage wasn't getting pounded and hung out to dry the past four seasons. I kinda' think Kubiak sees that and values what he has in David.

If anything, Kubiak showed David that now it's a deal between them that David has to produce or he's on the bench. No more warm and fuzzy from the coach to the QB...now it's for real. Kubiak feels that David needs a big nudge and not just a pat on the back.

Let's see what happens.

Oh, and by the way...I have no idea why a Pro Bowl receiver was not benched, as well, for dropping two different 3rd down passes that ultimately translated into 14 Titans points after he made those drops. And then we have Salaam and Weakgert killing drives all by themselves and THEY don't get benched. Amazing. I guess the QB is the only player that gets benched?

Look, David stunk. I admit it. But you guys, IMO, are going overboard. This is a process...but your memory of David is the one under the Capers' regime. Heck, I bet even DAVID'S memory of himself is the one with him under the Capers regime. Put yourself in his shoes: It sucked BIG TIME.

All I am asking for is fair and balanced "benching" protocol. Bench EVERYONE who consistently fails to pull their weight (Including Andre Johnson), especially in clutch situations.


You must spread rep around, blah, blah, blah. Excellent post :thumbup

ETA Re: AJ stone hands -- AJ makes some great plays to atone for his mistakes, and is an incredibly talented WR. However, just to put things in perspective, he is on pace to have more drops this year than either of the two WRs for the Seahawks a couple years ago when they led the world in drops. Just something to think about.

Texanfan4ever
10-31-2006, 02:41 PM
Just for the record, how many times has David thrown into quadruple coverage for an interception????? Anyone know????

Out of his 20-28 throws a game, that was only his 3rd interception this year, if I am correct. Throwing interceptions is not the big problem, the fumbles are. Every qb that throws enough is going to have some interceptions, even Manning.

Double Barrel
10-31-2006, 02:43 PM
He is playing, once again, with a crappy offensive line, but this season he is giving us a chance to win week in and week out.

That offensive line did produce a 100+ yard rusher and kept Sage from getting sacked, though. They can't be all that horrible.

I'm just sayin'.... :rolleyes:

Texan_Bill
10-31-2006, 02:54 PM
Those 87 passing yards vince has were impressive...

Hey Your,

Be carefull with remarks like that... You opened yourself up to: "he scored a rushing touchdown, he did not throw a pick or have a fumble...."

Plus, you forgot the 44 yards rushing - and all that led up to 131 total yards.... :yikes:

JDizzle
10-31-2006, 03:01 PM
That offensive line did produce a 100+ yard rusher and kept Sage from getting sacked, though. They can't be all that horrible.

I'm just sayin'.... :rolleyes:

The line needs a good bit of work but Carr makes them look worse than they really are. Watching Sage buy himself more time with some simple side-stepping on a play where protection broke down was an odd thing to see from a Texans QB.

Marcus
10-31-2006, 03:28 PM
:rolleyes: (sigh)

Another Nighthawk thread crying about who know who.

hollywood_texan
10-31-2006, 03:35 PM
Out of his 20-28 throws a game, that was only his 3rd interception this year, if I am correct. Throwing interceptions is not the big problem, the fumbles are. Every qb that throws enough is going to have some interceptions, even Manning.

Carr has 9 TDs and 5 INTs.

You are right he throws about 28 times a game and for about 200 yards. That is his career in a nutshell. He is very consistent in yards per game.

He doesn't have it to win a shoot out. If he does, then he better show it against the Giants.

The question is:

Are the Texans better or worse off with Carr as the starting QB?

Marcus
10-31-2006, 03:46 PM
Are the Texans better or worse off with Carr as the starting QB?
Are you asking that question to Carr supporters, or Carr haters?

Texanfan4ever
10-31-2006, 03:46 PM
Okay, I was a little off on the interceptions. And only time can answer the question.

Just curious, I could look it up, but do you know how many int Manning has had this year? Not comparing the two, just wondering what is normal.

Double Barrel
10-31-2006, 03:51 PM
The line needs a good bit of work but Carr makes them look worse than they really are. Watching Sage buy himself more time with some simple side-stepping on a play where protection broke down was an odd thing to see from a Texans QB.

That sums up my thoughts about it, as well. Sage had a pocket presence that is lacking in Carr. There were several plays where Rosenfel stepped out of a situation that probably would have resulted in a sack with DC. I'm not doggin' Carr, but I think his 200+ sacks in four seasons has done some damage to his poise under pressure.

kfranco_utexas
10-31-2006, 04:11 PM
I lived in Oklahoma for years and couldn't stand the Sooners. Hated hated hated them and their legions of obnoxious fans. Every year I prayed for UT to beat them and every year some loser like Chris Simms would spew 4 interceptions to them and they'd get their lily asses kicked. Your love affair for the Longhorns is commendable if not obviously suffering from memory loss.

Sorry to break this to you but I never followed UT until I started college. I went 2-2 vs Ou
and most likely will go 4-0 against aggy.:rolleyes:

hollywood_texan
10-31-2006, 04:23 PM
You are assuming that the Texans's defense will not be able to stop the New York Giants offense by suggesting that the game will be a shoot out. I'm not sure that will be the case, but even if it is, how would that be the QB's fault if the Texans's defense can't stop the Giants's offense. No QB should ever have to win a shoot out. I know it happens, but it should not be expected. Your defense should be good enough to keep the game from getting out of hand.

Well then, if you can't expect your offense to win a shootout, what is the point of having an $8 million QB and an $8 million WR per year? Furthermore, I thought the main reason Carr was drafted in 2002 instead of Peppers was because scoring points gets the fans excited and increases ticket sales.

The Texan's defense is playing okay right now. But, I think it is bit much to expect this defense to hold every team in the NFL to 17 points every game and then you only expect the offense to score 20. That is basically how I take your post. The Giants have a good offense and a QB that can get the ball deep downfield deep using the entire field, meanwhile they have a running back that is leading the league in rushing.

It seems some people have such high expectations of the defense and low expectations of the offense. It further seems David Carr needs more help than bringing more to the table for the team. Carr is one of the top 3 paid players on the team, and he needs to contribute as such with some big plays. Meaning more than high completion percentage with short passes and a couple of TDs in the 4th quarter to win at home. It is going to take a lot more than that to win on the road in the NFL, not to mention a playoff game.

It seems to me expectations are lopsided on this board when it comes to certain players and/or sides of the ball. And certain players due to their position and where they were drafted need to produce more for the team compared to other players!

For the most part against Tennesse, the defense did their job. The offense and special teams really screwed it up. Play that same way against the Giants and it will probably be a slaughter because the Giants offense looks to be light years ahead of Tennessee.

The Texans want to be competitive against the Giants, they need to move the ball with long drives and score some quality TDs in the first half.

kfranco_utexas
10-31-2006, 04:26 PM
Those 87 passing yards vince has were impressive...

He got the "W".:rolleyes:
Didn't he also pass for a TD and run for a TD also?:shoot:

kfranco_utexas
10-31-2006, 04:29 PM
That offensive line did produce a 100+ yard rusher and kept Sage from getting sacked, though. They can't be all that horrible.

I'm just sayin'.... :rolleyes:

It's a conspiracy theory by the o-line. They want David out so they figured that "let him get sacked, that way Sage the man can come in":spy:

kfranco_utexas
10-31-2006, 04:34 PM
That is not the reason you can't compare them. The reason is its college football and it is a joke compared to the NFL. The level of talent you play each week is monumentaly higher in the NFL; because, teams don't get to pad their schedule with teams like UNT, SHSU, Rice, et al. In addition the championship is decided wholly by the play on the field in the NFL, not by a bunch of computers and sports writers. It is laughable that you would even make such a comparison, and even worse you totally disrespect the rest of the players and coaches by giving sole credit for their program's success to one player. I'm not suprised; because, that is typical of Longhorns fans, easily the least knowledgable and rudest college sports fans I have ever seen. lol:

Umm.....surrrrreeee!!!!!!!
College Football fans are among the MOST loyal. College Football is the only football that I can actually see and enjoy other games. Sorry but how many of yall actually watch to see how the Eagles are doing vs. ______ ?
College Football is the best. Period. I root for the Texans but that is it.
N.F.L= No Fun League.

College Football= You play for your school and you do it with pride.
N.F.L= Players care about the paycheck. You play for multiple teams, etc.


:yawn:

Double Barrel
10-31-2006, 04:35 PM
It's a conspiracy theory by the o-line. They want David out so they figured that "let him get sacked, that way Sage the man can come in":spy:

David needs to take them out to the steakhouses more often. Those big boys need their beef!

kfranco_utexas
10-31-2006, 04:36 PM
Oh and one more thing.
In College Football every game matters. You cannot say that about the NFL.:lightbulb:

kfranco_utexas
10-31-2006, 04:39 PM
David needs to take them out to the steakhouses more often. Those big boys need their beef!

David doesnt look like the guy who would do this. I worked at Pappasitos by Reliant and he never looked like the type of guy who you'd want to hang out with. Just m.o
:hides:
Just look at him when he got benched. All he did was grab his neck collar. He could have at least talked to Sage and given him some type of encouragement. Sorry, all you David fans, but he IS NOT a leader. My boy Vince is. He is a natural born leader.Period.

kfranco_utexas
10-31-2006, 04:43 PM
Which would you rather watch?

every game counts vs. a 1-3 team eventually advancing to the Super Bowl.

The improbable vs. the inevitable.

"Hail to the Victors" vs. "Hail to the Redskins."

JoePa chasing officials vs. instant replay.

105,000 fans at Ohio Stadium vs. 35,000 fans at Paul Brown Stadium.

Playing for touchdowns vs. playing for field goals.

Hurricanes vs. Dolphins.

Pageantry and passion vs. green and greed.

Timeless classics vs. games that end in 3 hours--or else.

Walk-on heroes vs. computer busts.

Big Red's option vs. finally busting your ass in option years.


I'll stop my rant now.

kfranco_utexas
10-31-2006, 04:52 PM
I sure can say that about the NFL. Every game matters in determining the order of the draft. I thought you would remember that from last year.

ROTFLMAO
It's just a matter of time for the ping pong machine.
I was regarding the playoffs.
Could you imagine if College Football got a playoff???!!!!!WOW.

Cgold
10-31-2006, 04:54 PM
You have no idea what your talkin about Franco.. You dont like the guy ok... but dont just spit out stuff thats not true just to try and make some point. The first series carr was butt hurt obviously and then he did help Sage out the rest of the game, in between series. Maybe if you read the articles on the day other than just come here and complain how you "see him at some restaurant and dont think he's a guy you want to hang out with"... haha ok we get it, you dont like him.. the fact is the guy is a model player. More players should act like the guy.. He is a christian, family guy, who does a lot for his community and never brought negative attention to the franchise with offfield activities like some many others players do these days.....

kfranco_utexas
10-31-2006, 04:55 PM
Also I'd rather watch the Raiders vs Arizona than the University of Texas vs. Rice University. Please. Every game counts. You make me laugh. :rofl:

There is a ton of games going on at the same time in college football. You don't have to watch TX vs. Rice, but you can watch (fill in blank)_________.

kfranco_utexas
10-31-2006, 04:56 PM
You have no idea what your talkin about Franco.. You dont like the guy ok, but dont just spit out BS. The first series carr was butt hurt obviously and then he did help Sage out the rest of the games. Maybe if you read the articles on the day other than just come here and complain how you "see him at some restaurant and dont think he's a guy you want to hang out with"... haha ok we get it you dont like him.. the fact is the guy is a model player. More players should act like the guy.. He is a christian, family guy, who does a lot for his community and never brought negative attention to the franchise with offfield activities like some many others players do these days.....
True Story.

Sorry, I lost a lot of respect for the guy when I asked him for an autograph and he tried to charge me.
:twocents:
Apparently earning millions is not enough.

kfranco_utexas
10-31-2006, 04:57 PM
Atleast the 1-3 team has a chance to win out and get a championship in the NFL. Once a team has 3 losses in college football their chances of a championship are over.

Can't forget about a bowl game now.:redtowel:

Texanfan4ever
10-31-2006, 04:59 PM
You have no idea what your talkin about Franco.. You dont like the guy ok... but dont just spit out stuff thats not true just to try and make some point. The first series carr was butt hurt obviously and then he did help Sage out the rest of the game, in between series. Maybe if you read the articles on the day other than just come here and complain how you "see him at some restaurant and dont think he's a guy you want to hang out with"... haha ok we get it, you dont like him.. the fact is the guy is a model player. More players should act like the guy.. He is a christian, family guy, who does a lot for his community and never brought negative attention to the franchise with offfield activities like some many others players do these days.....


RIght on, I agree with you, but get ready to duck. You are fixin to get it!!!

Cgold
10-31-2006, 05:01 PM
Well, I don't believe it at all..but who knows... again after all the charities and autograph sessions and hes going to charge you..I dont buy it....and why did you even go ask for the autograph of a player you like to come here and badmouth..

Cgold
10-31-2006, 05:06 PM
That's ok "texanfan" i wouldnt doubt it.. if people have problem with his play and dont want him as the qb, ok....thats fine...
It's different to me when you attack the guy personally..about someone you have no idea about, and appears to be a class guy...come on...
the carr hatred never ends...can we atleast keep it on the field...

kfranco_utexas
10-31-2006, 05:06 PM
Well, I don't believe it at all..but who knows... again after all the charities and autograph sessions and hes going to charge you..I dont buy it....and why did you even go ask for the autograph of a player you like to come here and badmouth..
Why would I lie?
I actually did like him at the beginning (I even bought his jersey). After that day, it all changed. He showed his true colors.
:brickwall
I still love the team, I just dont like him.
You have no idea how much I would love the Texans to become a successful franchise.

I'd even (gulp) have my Longhorns lose to Aggy's in Austin.

Texanfan4ever
10-31-2006, 05:10 PM
That's ok "texanfan" i wouldnt doubt it.. if people have problem with his play and dont want him as the qb, ok....thats fine...
It's different to me when you attack the guy personally..about someone you have no idea about, and appears to be a class guy...come on...
the carr hatred never ends...can we atleast keep it on the field...

It never ends. We have 2 types here that will NEVER agree for long, the Carr haters, and the Carr lovers. I guess you could make that three if you added Vince lovers but they are usually in the Carr hater group.

:crying:

Cgold
10-31-2006, 05:11 PM
:ok:

Well we can agree on one thing atleast.. go texans

kfranco_utexas
10-31-2006, 05:12 PM
:ok:

Well we can agree on one thing atleast.. go texans

Agreed.:texflag:

dantem
10-31-2006, 05:16 PM
What was impressive was that Vince didn't turn the ball over and successfully managed the game.

If Carr had the football smart, pocket presence, quick-release of Peyton Manning....gods know what he would be able to do....

Vince did not manage the game, he hardly played and he had as many bad passes as good ones, his performance was average to poor if you compare him to NFL Quarterbacks . Packman Jones managed that game. And Carrs turnovers gave them a win that was not earned.

Sorry, that game was not won it was lost.

kfranco_utexas
10-31-2006, 05:22 PM
Vince did not manage the game, he hardly played and he had as many bad passes as good ones, his performance was average to poor if you compare him to NFL Quarterbacks . Packman Jones managed that game. And Carrs turnovers gave them a win that was not earned.

Sorry, that game was not won it was lost.

Yes, the Texans shot themselves in the foot. It was difficult to watch, I kept hoping for them to come back and win the game, but like Aggy says (We just ran out of time), it is true in this case.:redtowel:

kfranco_utexas
10-31-2006, 05:25 PM
I apologize to anyone I may have insulted.
Since I got a comment stating:"jackass" from someone on my reputation.

run-david-run
10-31-2006, 05:58 PM
The Longhorns were still winning 10 games a season even though Mack couldn't beat Stoops on a 5 year or so string.

There is no comparison to the Texans now and when the Longhorns couldn't beat Oklahoma for that one stretch.

One player put Texas over the hump and has brought the Texas program to where it is expected to be. Ummm... the Texans passed on that player to keep Carr....
And draft a DE with the potential to be great, just that I'd throw that in...

Sarg01
10-31-2006, 07:15 PM
That offensive line did produce a 100+ yard rusher and kept Sage from getting sacked, though. They can't be all that horrible.

I'm just sayin'.... :rolleyes:

So why was VanDeKamp all over Carr? He got two sacks, had two more nullified by penalties and was in Carr's face all day long.

Either #1 the OL had a motivation problem which was fixed when they saw coach in a benching mood or #2 Titans changed to a more passive defensive style.

Nighthawk
10-31-2006, 07:30 PM
Funny how we absolutely never see or hear from you Nighthawk unless Carr has a bad game. For a fan of the David Texans, you sure seem selective about your post topics.

I'll tell you why and I won't try to hide behind some politically correct (footbally correct) BS.

I think Carr is the MAIN PROBLEM WITH THIS FRANCHISE AND THAT HE HAS BEEN THE MAIN PROBLEM FOR FOUR YEARS.

I think that UNTIL WE DUMP CARR WE'RE GOING NOWHERE, WE'RE GOING TO WIN VERY LITTLE.

I think that CARR IS HOLDING THE TEAM BACK.

I think HE HAS BEEN FOR A WHILE.

I think CARR IS A MISTAKE THAT THE FRONT OFFICE MADE AND CAN"T GIVE UP ON.

I think a lot of other things about a lot of other folks on the team, but none of those things or those players are preventing the team from growing into a reasonable facsimile of an NFL team.

I think CARR IS POISON.

I hope this helps to make my position clear.

Kaiser Toro
10-31-2006, 07:33 PM
I'll tell you why and I won't try to hide behind some politically correct (footbally correct) BS.

I think Carr is the MAIN PROBLEM WITH THIS FRANCHISE AND THAT HE HAS BEEN THE MAIN PROBLEM FOR FOUR YEARS.

I think that UNTIL WE DUMP CARR WE'RE GOING NOWHERE, WE'RE GOING TO WIN VERY LITTLE.

I think that CARR IS HOLDING THE TEAM BACK.

I think HE HAS BEEN FOR A WHILE.

I think CARR IS A MISTAKE THAT THE FRONT OFFICE MADE AND CAN"T GIVE UP ON.

I think a lot of other things about a lot of other folks on the team, but none of those things or those players are preventing the team from growing into a reasonable facsimile of an NFL team.

I think CARR IS POISON.

I hope this helps to make my position clear.

Yep, but he is a Texan. A well paid one at that.

The coach is on top of the situation and the accountability of the QB play rests on his shoulders. Never before have we been where we are. Quite an exciting time in my opinion.

Nighthawk
10-31-2006, 07:34 PM
Those 87 passing yards vince has were impressive...


No. But his team's W was impressive, wasn't it? Or do you prefer to have a pretty-boy QB and lots of Ls, cause that's what we've got.

VY is only another rookie who routinely outplays our 4 1/2 year veteran number one draft choice 50 million dollar guy.

Sarg01
10-31-2006, 07:37 PM
I'll tell you why and I won't try to hide behind some politically correct (footbally correct) BS.

I think Carr is the MAIN PROBLEM WITH THIS FRANCHISE AND THAT HE HAS BEEN THE MAIN PROBLEM FOR FOUR YEARS.


Wow, are you serious? Not secondary or pass protection or lack of targets in past seasons? Not Dom Capers? Not Casserly's trades/FA signings?

You have a right to your opinion - it's just we're not only not on the same page, I'm not certain we're in the same library.

GP
10-31-2006, 10:24 PM
So why was VanDeKamp all over Carr? He got two sacks, had two more nullified by penalties and was in Carr's face all day long.

Either #1 the OL had a motivation problem which was fixed when they saw coach in a benching mood or #2 Titans changed to a more passive defensive style.

I go with No. 1 because I already went No. 2 a few hours ago (get it?).

Seriously though, there WAS (In my opinion) a huge motivational factor when Carr was benched in terms of the o line picking up the slack. Never before has the o line seen a backup Qb come into the game for anything otherthan an injury to David.

Thus, if Sage gets rag-dolled all over the place...the stench gets sniffed out over in the area of the o line. It's suddenly the o line's fault that the defense is rolling over our offense.

So you have a self-preservation situation out there for the o line. It's an "Oh crap, I better protect the replacement QB or Kubiak will cut my rear" thought balloon that's over the o line's head when they see Sage coming onto the field.

O linemen get to suck and it's OK. Pro Bowl receivers get to suck and it's an "Oh well...." response, no benching of our valued and treasured WR since this is the first time he's had stone hands on well-placed passes, right? After all, he sulks on the bench and is clearrrrrrrrrrly upset enough with himself that no coach needs to bench him for it, right?

I'm an "equal benching opportunity" guy. And while we're at it, bench the punter who can't directional kick and try and pin a fairly good return man against one of the sidelines. And let's not even go to the fact that he punted a line drive with no hang time on it. Thanks, Chad. In the famous words of Tom Green in Charlie's Angels "Was it the Chad? It was the Chad wasn't it? IT'S THE CHAD....IT'S...THE CHAD......"

GP
10-31-2006, 10:30 PM
No. But his team's W was impressive, wasn't it? Or do you prefer to have a pretty-boy QB and lots of Ls, cause that's what we've got.

VY is only another rookie who routinely outplays our 4 1/2 year veteran number one draft choice 50 million dollar guy.

This is where you uncover your real motivation for your anti-Carr beliefs.

1. You call him a pretty boy, which obviously points to a belief you must have that he's a fake or a phoney or that he's only a poster child at best.

2. You have anointed VY as someone who "routinely outplays" Carr when VY has been in how many NFL games? Guess what: Carr beat the Cowboys in his FIRST start, on one of themost highly rated/watched NFL games in history. A few things happened after that, namely Dom's inability to coach well, and give Vy the same timeframe to see where's at. I predict major injury and when his legs are gone, that's the end of VY. It's Randall Cunningham all over again...except NFL defenses are a lot faster and a lot more adept at stopping a running QB these days.

You hate Carr. You like VY. It's simple math for the rest of us: You have a vested interest in seeing Carr fail, and so you delight in it when he does.

underdog65
10-31-2006, 10:43 PM
David doesnt look like the guy who would do this. I worked at Pappasitos by Reliant and he never looked like the type of guy who you'd want to hang out with. Just m.o
:hides:
Just look at him when he got benched. All he did was grab his neck collar. He could have at least talked to Sage and given him some type of encouragement. Sorry, all you David fans, but he IS NOT a leader. My boy Vince is. He is a natural born leader.Period.
Didn't Bledsoe do the same thing when he was benched and I don't think anyone has ever said that Bledsoe wasn't a leader and a team guy

GP
10-31-2006, 10:58 PM
A QB gets benched and he's supposed to go over and play nice with the backup?

Sorry, I disagree with that idea.

Two people apologized after the loss, and only one of them really needed to (Hint: His name starts with an "S" ends with an "M" and has the letters alaa in the middle).

Even one of the other o linemen on our team reportedly (by another poster's account of the story) said that a few of the linemen needed to apologize for their effort.

They played stupid for one guy, and then they picked up their play when they knew they were suddenly under the microscope with David out. Period.

It's human nature to go into a self-preservation mode like our o line did. And at leats one of or linemen had the guts to speak out and say so. He could have played stupid, but he was honest about it.

southtexan
10-31-2006, 11:29 PM
I don't know how longer I can endure with this franchise. I cant stand losing, losing is not in my vocabulary. The Longhorns have spoiled me. I am starting to believe that Colt McCoy is a better fit for the Texans.

I suppose that none of us that consider ourselves Texans fans like it the losing part of the business. I'm going to see this team win (in a couple of years I hope), and we'll live happily ever after.

Texanfan4ever
10-31-2006, 11:48 PM
First off, why would anyone still be using the "Carr thinks he is a pretty boy" excuse? That is the most ridiculous argument I have heard. Any man that uses that is at the very least jealous.

Carr has never shown any signs or done anything to make anyone believe he even cared what he looked like. And don't even go back to the hair cutting deal, that was insignificant.

Carr wants to win. That is why he is still here fighting, after being thrown around for 4 years, due to extremely bad coaching, and trying to follow lovely Coach Capers rules. He might have ruined him. I hope Kubes can pull him out of it.

Pretty boy???? Get over it.

Nbkan
10-31-2006, 11:53 PM
Hell...he played better with longer hair. Maybe he should grow it again. j/k I couldn't resist. I am tired and I am grasping at straws.

Sco-tai
11-01-2006, 12:06 AM
I say: four and a half years is more than enough chance. I say: this is approaching a sickness.

I hear the RAIDERS and/or TITANS need to fill some seats...go cheer for them.

Let our front office handle this. :brickwall

Let's face it, if Kubiak pulled him once, he'll do it again. And the next time, I doubt he'll get the keys back so quickly. I have confidence in this coaching staff. But since you don't...go elsewhere, bro.

:shoot:

disaacks3
11-01-2006, 12:13 AM
Just look at him when he got benched. All he did was grab his neck collar. He could have at least talked to Sage and given him some type of encouragement. Sorry, all you David fans, but he IS NOT a leader. My boy Vince is. He is a natural born leader.Period. A leader he may be, but not by example. VY isn't fit to hold DC's jock in a passing contest, and if you'd remove those burnt-orange glasses for a sec., you'd see that. Compare DC's first NFL start and VY's...get back to me when you've recovered from the embarassment....I'm pretty sure they were against the same team...:rolleyes:

As much as I dislike "McLame", even he noted that anybody expecting a benched QB to be a rah-rah guy for his replacement the rest of the game is nuts. Note to those who catch on slowly: It was SUPPOSED to be a wake-up call to DC, he WASN'T supposed to be thrilled about it.

Texanfan4ever
11-01-2006, 12:14 AM
Hell...he played better with longer hair. Maybe he should grow it again. j/k I couldn't resist. I am tired and I am grasping at straws.


You are forgiven. Grasping is understandable.

Aztequila
11-01-2006, 12:22 AM
All, or most of all, are extremely good points that people bring up. I was shocked as hell to see Sage Rosenfels come in and do a great job, after seeing the Bledsoe ordeal with the cowboys, I thought that this might be it for Carr, and was upset, and not just because I played him in fantasy this week. But anyway, I think Carr has earned the right to keep his position as the starting QB at least until the end of the year. He got the shiet kicked out him for years on this team. The least we can give him is this year, I mean are we really going to go to the post season? The best I am hoping for is a 7-9 record. That won't cut it in the AFC, or NFC for that matter. I have said it before, I believe that DC can be great QB. We just have to let him finish it out and see what this season makes out of him.

yourfavoritetexan42
11-01-2006, 08:59 AM
It was a good move because david seemed like "well there goes my o line... so I am just going to be quiet and cruise to a loss and everyone will know that my o line sucks"

We needed to stop that. Even though it is the case, we don't want him to have that mentality. When he comes in against hte Giants on sunday, I GUARANTEE you will see a fired up David Carr who won't let crap slide like he would in the past, because his job is on the line.

real
11-01-2006, 09:12 AM
When he comes in against hte Giants on sunday, I GUARANTEE you will see a fired up David Carr who won't let crap slide like he would in the past, because his job is on the line.

I hope he doesn't do that...He souuldn't put all his emotions out there like that because if something goes wrong it will be deflating...When you live on highs and lows like that things tend to not go well...

I think the best thing for him to do is be himself....Come out relaxed and forget about all the pressure and forget about the past week.....

The Pencil Neck
11-01-2006, 09:41 AM
Sorry to break this to you but I never followed UT until I started college. I went 2-2 vs Ou
and most likely will go 4-0 against aggy.:rolleyes:

I think that pretty much sums it up. Lack of perspective. Whenever I think of the Longhorns, I think of a team that USED to be great but was bad for a while and chokes in big games. A couple of years won't change that impression.

Hell, I can remember when the Coogs were a consistently good team. That's a loooooong time ago.

Vinny
11-01-2006, 10:04 AM
A leader he may be, but not by example. VY isn't fit to hold DC's jock in a passing contest, and if you'd remove those burnt-orange glasses for a sec., you'd see that. Neither one of them could touch Jeff George either...but what exactly does that mean? Nothing. Just because you are a prototype doesn't mean you are a great player. The Titans didn't win a game till VY took over. His team almost beat the Colts and are 2-2 since he took over...same line, same defense...same possum headed owner. The only difference is Vince Young. Making a first down on 3rd downs or producing a clutch play in key moments sure helps a team to win a game here and there.....at least people think this outside of Houston.

How far did I expect him to go at this point? A long way because the quicker he grows up and the quicker he becomes a great player then the faster this football team can become a good, solid football team. So we have a ways to go. He’s not there yet, none of us are there.

I think good quarterbacking is more important than good pitching in baseball. I mean, you can win some games with mediocre pitching but you can't be a winner..and Kubiak pretty much says that teams go as the QB goes in football in earlier quotes. After 4 years and a half Carr still has a long way to go? Uh, yeah but so does Jeff George. Just because you are a physical prototype doesn't mean it makes you a good QB. Many, many of our fans can't see the difference...that is incredibly frustrating, but I've about gotten beat down enough by them...I don't get into it as much...most people just exaggerate my argument or straw man me....so I just throw in little quips here and there now instead of argue my case...but I had to throw this down...this thread has some amazing takes.

phan1
11-01-2006, 10:27 AM
I don't agree that Kubiak is being "soft" with Carr. We wouldn't even be so hard on Carr if he wasn't benched in the 1st place!!! Is he getting a double standard? Of course, he's our #1 pick! Do you want to bench our #1 pick just because he had 1 bad game?!? Do you not even want to give our biggest financial investment a chance to respond?!? Trust me, if Sage is clearly the better man for this team, he'll get the job in due time. Until then, it's not like we're making a playoff run anytime soon.

Sorry, I guess we should have benched Mario for Kalu (the better player at that moment) after he sucked against the Eagles.

Double Barrel
11-01-2006, 10:39 AM
Even one of the other o linemen on our team reportedly (by another poster's account of the story) said that a few of the linemen needed to apologize for their effort.

They played stupid for one guy, and then they picked up their play when they knew they were suddenly under the microscope with David out. Period.

It's human nature to go into a self-preservation mode like our o line did. And at leats one of or linemen had the guts to speak out and say so. He could have played stupid, but he was honest about it.

I like you gpshafer, but I have to respectfully disagree on some levels.

Sage just looked like a better QB on Sunday, regardless if the line "played better" or whatever. There were several plays where Rosenfel stepped up into the pocket to avoid a potential sack. Those same plays would have been sacks if Carr had still been in the game.

Sage made reads, checked down his receivers, and bought time while plays developed. Carr looked horrible on Sunday, and regardless if people want to blame the line, the simple fact is that our starting QB came out flat, uninspired, and layed an egg. Basically, he choked for a game that seemed 'big' in many Houston fans' perspectives. Sage had nothing to lose, and he played like it.

There is enough blame to go around, but it starts with Carr on this one.

disaacks3
11-01-2006, 12:22 PM
Neither one of them could touch Jeff George either...but what exactly does that mean? Nothing. Just because you are a prototype doesn't mean you are a great player. The Titans didn't win a game till VY took over. His team almost beat the Colts and are 2-2 since he took over...same line, same defense...same possum headed owner. The only difference is Vince Young. Making a first down on 3rd downs or producing a clutch play in key moments sure helps a team to win a game here and there.....at least people think this outside of Houston. Hey, I'm all for winning the games too, but saying VY is in any way responsible for the Punt Return & Carr fumble TD's is ridiculous. QB's in the NFL are expected to pass the ball, it's that simple. Had Richard Smith not elected the blitz on Vince's running TD, the percentages were with us in coverage...and we're a sub-par defensive secondary at best. Plenty of people, (including the announcing crew) outside of Houston could see THAT as well.

VY definitely didn't LOSE the game for his team, but to say he WON it for them is a stretch. 14 points isn't exactly a breakout game against the Texans. Was it better than Carr's performance for the day? Accuracy wise, it wasn't, but the "W" is more important than individual stats. I seriously doubt that VY will EVER be as good a passer as Carr, nor will Carr be as good a scrambler as VY. History favors the better passer though; in stats, in wins and in playoff results.

I want BOTH teams to succeed, it'll make the victories down the road all that more sweet. I don't really care WHO we've got at QB, if he can move the team effectively. On Sunday, that was Sage Rosenfels.

AustinJB
11-01-2006, 12:35 PM
Sorry, I guess we should have benched Mario for Kalu (the better player at that moment) after he sucked against the Eagles.

If after 4+ years Mario is not better than Kalu (or whoever else we have) then your D@$% right we should bench him!! Play the best player!!

GP
11-01-2006, 02:01 PM
I like you gpshafer, but I have to respectfully disagree on some levels.

Sage just looked like a better QB on Sunday, regardless if the line "played better" or whatever. There were several plays where Rosenfel stepped up into the pocket to avoid a potential sack. Those same plays would have been sacks if Carr had still been in the game.

Sage made reads, checked down his receivers, and bought time while plays developed. Carr looked horrible on Sunday, and regardless if people want to blame the line, the simple fact is that our starting QB came out flat, uninspired, and layed an egg. Basically, he choked for a game that seemed 'big' in many Houston fans' perspectives. Sage had nothing to lose, and he played like it.
There is enough blame to go around, but it starts with Carr on this one.

A couple of ways of looking at expanding on your statement that I bolded up there:

1. Maybe Sage has been a gypsie for so long that he DOES play like there's no tomorrow...maybe he plays like there's nothing to lose because there isn't anything for him to lose. On the other hand, there's everything for Carr to lose: The starting job, his pride, being a No. 1 draft pick bust, etc.

2. Maybe Carr NEEDS to be a gypsie for a little bit. It's no seceret that he's always been "The Man" and that he's never had the keys taken from him...but perhaps this is the beginning of a very real and true maturing process that Dom Capers was never smart enough or man enough to make happen?

Either way, there's a heckuva' lot of pressure on David's shoulders...and not much on Sage's if you ask me.

Unless, of course, Sage DOES become the starter. Then, he inherits the same thing: A starting position to lose, his pride, etc.

Being QB in the NFL is not the best job to have if you ask me.

real
11-01-2006, 02:04 PM
1. Maybe Sage has been a gypsie for so long that he DOES play like there's no tomorrow...maybe he plays like there's nothing to lose because there isn't anything for him to lose. On the other hand, there's everything for Carr to lose: The starting job, his pride, being a No. 1 draft pick bust, etc..

Sage may not have as much "to lose" as Carr, but to say he has "nothing" to lose IMO, is a little short of the truth...

It's not like Sage can just go in and stink it up, and no one will give a hoot...This is his career so, yeah...he does have something to lose...

Big J
11-01-2006, 02:06 PM
[QUOTE=Superstar;486565]Carr is not the best player. Sage showed us that.[/QUOTE

Way to analyze Sage's good performance against one of Carr's worst performances ever. I swear to god if you bring up Sage's preseason performance you should just stop coming to this board.

If Sage does that week in and week out I would agree. To bad for you it wont happen because its Carr's job and it will be for years to come. Get off it.

thunderkyss
11-01-2006, 02:24 PM
Carr played poorly against Dallas and now the Titans. He's played well against Jacksonville. He's played decently against our other four opponents. I can't fathom how some of you seem to lay awake at night with such a burning desire to see him replaced.


NOt exactly......

David fumbled the ball three times against Indy. Two of the three led directly to 10 points. But since Manning was having a field day against our defense(like we knew he would).... everybody complained about the defense.

David fumbled the ball three times against Washington.. I believe we lost one, that resulted in a field goal..... sure we were already down by 21 points or so.... we were so upset with our defense, we forgot Davids fumbles...... (one we can clearly blame on the center)

David fumbled twice in the Miami game..... both, I think were strips.. but we had no running game whatsoever, so we focused our attention on our running game anyway.

David threw two Ints againsst Dallas... one, definitely not his fault, and I'd like to see him make more passes like that one(the BradieJames tip).... the second...... it was the old David staring down his reciever.. again, we went against one of the top 2 defenses against the run(at that time) our running game was anemic, so we concentrated on ragging on RonDayne.

David did not mess up in the Jax game..... our defense pitched a shut out in the first half, came out flat in the third, then put the lock down on Jacksonville..... forcing turnovers, putting David in short field situations, and our running game showed up(against a team that gave up 93 ypg(at that time)). We were feeling pretty good for a week, all we did was tear down RonDayne during this time.

Tennesse...... David fumbles twice, one leading to a score with 8 seconds left in the half(sounds like a bad movie doesn't it??). Neither were strips, he just coughed them up.

David played just as decently against Tennessee as he has in 4 of the other 6 games we played. He did not mess up in 2 of the 7 games he has played this year.


They played stupid for one guy, and then they picked up their play when they knew they were suddenly under the microscope with David out. Period.

It's human nature to go into a self-preservation mode like our o line did. And at leats one of or linemen had the guts to speak out and say so. He could have played stupid, but he was honest about it.

Did you watch the game?? Weigart & Salaam were still getting beat, that's not why Sage wasn't sacked. As a matter of fact, Weigart, Salaam, and Flanagan got beat(I wonder how Flanagan has remained spotless through all this) and Sage did his best to get away from that rush, but was tackled for a one yard gain(it was really a sack, but he managed to be on the LOS, and not behind it) but since there was an offsides penalty, it doesn't count as anything.. it was a free play.

But on most of Sage's pass attempts, those same guys were still getting beat. The Deffensive linemen just weren't getting their reward. Actually, they were getting punished.