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View Full Version : Chronic: Texans show support for Carr after nightmare in Tennessee


Texans34Life
10-31-2006, 04:00 AM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/sports/4298816.html

"We're going to ride with Carr because he's the starter, and we believe he can get the job done," cornerback Dunta Robinson said. "You can't sit a guy after one bad half.

"Dave was coming off a great game against Jacksonville, and there's no way you throw a guy under the bus for one bad half."

Kubiak said the blame for Sunday's loss starts with him.

"I take a hell of a lot of it on myself," he said. "If you point a finger, there are always three of them pointing right back at you. I have to do a better job."

And it starts with the way he handles Carr.

"(Carr's) response is very important," Kubiak said. "It's very important to our future how he comes out of this. I know it's his first time, but there aren't many quarterbacks that haven't been through this.


"These guys have been great," Carr said. "When you're at your worst moment, you find out who your friends are, and I have a lot of them on this team."

"Almost everybody had a story for me about Jim Kelly or John Elway or Steve Young things they'd gone through," Carr said. "The guys went out of their way, and it means a lot to me.

"I told my wife (Melody) last night that if Tennessee wanted to play me in the backyard, I wouldn't even wear pads if it meant we could do it over.

"It's going to take a hand grenade to get me off the field the next time."

"If he were to go in the tank and change his approach and not exude confidence, then we might be on the fence. But we're not," Mark Bruener said. "We believe in David."

If he is so confident on reforming himself after the Titans game, let's see how he fares against the Giants, Jags, and Bills in the upcoming weeks.

I'm expecting Sage to replace him by the Bills game. Pull a Reich.

Goldeagle
10-31-2006, 05:23 AM
I believe Salaam apologized to david and McKenney actually dogged his fellow O lineman saying THEY need to play better, not david.


But I see David getting killed against the Giants, Sage will be the starter and I will see if Sage is the man to take us to the promised land.

CoachJim
10-31-2006, 07:25 AM
I can think of 8 million reasons Sage will not be our starter this season. Can you imagine how stupid thats gonna make Kubes look to Big Daddy Bob? Besides, ya gotta love the fight in David ...

"I told my wife (Melody) last night that if Tennessee wanted to play me in the backyard, I wouldn't even wear pads if it meant we could do it over.

"It's going to take a hand grenade to get me off the field the next time."

wolfscar
10-31-2006, 07:34 AM
If he is so confident on reforming himself after the Titans game, let's see how he fares against the Giants, Jags, and Bills in the upcoming weeks.

I'm expecting Sage to replace him by the Bills game. Pull a Reich.

He had one bad game. Carr has been immense this season, it would take a major skid for him to be pulled as starter and I really don't see that happening.

Kaiser Toro
10-31-2006, 07:41 AM
cornerback Dunta Robinson said. "You can't sit a guy after one bad half.

Yes you can. This is the type of attitude that coddling one guy can and will permeate a locker room. I know it is in Carr's defense, but it is BS and needs to be squashed, especially with so many rookies getting thrust into starting positions.

MissouriTexan
10-31-2006, 07:51 AM
He had one bad game. Carr has been immense this season, it would take a major skid for him to be pulled as starter and I really don't see that happening.

My thoughts exactly, why pull a guy that's been doing great all year (finally) if he has one bad half? We've invested time and money into this guy, and it was finally starting to pay off. Let's not let all of that go to waste, I still think Carr's our man to bring us to glory, when we get a decent O-line in front of him.

TEXANRED
10-31-2006, 10:00 AM
What I find funny is that at one point in time the Houston fan base called for Warren Moon's head and wanted Commander Cody Carlson to start. When it Finlay happened Cody pulled his groin and was out and Moon came back in and had one of the best games of his career.

Little off topic here, any other old Oiler fan a little peeved the Vikings had a tribute for Moon? So far he has been honored in a city he never played in and and team he played three seasons for.

TexansLucky13
10-31-2006, 10:11 AM
David Carr is God

Vinny
10-31-2006, 10:22 AM
I think I'm gonna be ill. David Carr shouldn't be mentioned with Steve Young, John Elway, Jim Kelly or Warren Moon....it's just not fair to those great HOF players. Carr isn't in their class and I find it amazing people keep mentioning Carr with those guys.

Runner
10-31-2006, 10:41 AM
Frankly, I'm surprised any of them said anything. Not because the subject was Carr, but because the times I can remember the team standing up for each other publicly are very few and far between. In the past it has seemed to me they keep their heads down so that they aren't the next to "get in trouble".

TEXANRED
10-31-2006, 10:48 AM
I think I'm gonna be ill. David Carr shouldn't be mentioned with Steve Young, John Elway, Jim Kelly or Warren Moon....it's just not fair to those great HOF players. Carr isn't in their class and I find it amazing people keep mentioning Carr with those guys.

The thing about Moon is he got here in 86' and wasn't any good until 88'. Also remember he struggled in the beginning of Pardee's Run and Shoot. Remember the butt whoopin we got from Glanville's kids the first game of the season?

Never know, maybe Carr will turn into a gamer someday. I am still holding out hope. The New York game will tell his entire future. If he comes out firing and lights up the D then he is here to stay. If he comes out flat......its over.

Twitch
10-31-2006, 10:54 AM
Little off topic here, any other old Oiler fan a little peeved the Vikings had a tribute for Moon? So far he has been honored in a city he never played in and and team he played three seasons for.

Didn't I see that KC retired his number?!?!

Vinny
10-31-2006, 11:15 AM
The thing about Moon is he got here in 86' and wasn't any good until 88'. Also remember he struggled in the beginning of Pardee's Run and Shoot. Remember the butt whoopin we got from Glanville's kids the first game of the season?

Never know, maybe Carr will turn into a gamer someday. I am still holding out hope. The New York game will tell his entire future. If he comes out firing and lights up the D then he is here to stay. If he comes out flat......its over.we didn't hang out for 5 years waiting for Moon to get consistent. The RnS didn't work too well right off the bat in the NFL and it also didn't work without superstar talent. Bob Gagliano and Mouse Davis never could get it to work right up in Detroit. Moon made that offense work in the NFL after they worked out the bugs.

Texanfan4ever
10-31-2006, 12:00 PM
Frankly, I'm surprised any of them said anything. Not because the subject was Carr, but because the times I can remember the team standing up for each other publicly are very few and far between. In the past it has seemed to me they keep their heads down so that they aren't the next to "get in trouble".


That's true, but I think the difference here is Kubiak. Regardless of what has happened, the team has a different attitude. Starts with "respecting your coach" IMO

TexansLucky13
10-31-2006, 12:04 PM
I think I'm gonna be ill. David Carr shouldn't be mentioned with Steve Young, John Elway, Jim Kelly or Warren Moon....it's just not fair to those great HOF players. Carr isn't in their class and I find it amazing people keep mentioning Carr with those guys.

Kubiak specifically relates David to these two. I don't think anyone on this planet could know more about it than Gary. Now, if that makes you sick.... just take some Advil and go lay down. I think you may be in for a long season (if not the length of Davids career).

TEXANRED
10-31-2006, 12:08 PM
we didn't hang out for 5 years waiting for Moon to get consistent. The RnS didn't work too well right off the bat in the NFL and it also didn't work without superstar talent. Bob Gagliano and Mouse Davis never could get it to work right up in Detroit. Moon made that offense work in the NFL after they worked out the bugs.

I know. I was really just trying to compare. Moon wasn't good until Glanville installed a decent system and then didn't become a super star until Pardee played to Moon's strength of throwing it down the field.

Much like Carr. He was in a crappy system and for four years didn't have anyone to guide him. I don't think Moon, Elway, Young, or even Aikeman's concussion prone self could have survived Capers, Pendry, and Palmer. You must admit Carr has preformed a thousand times better this season than in years past.

Sarg01
10-31-2006, 12:10 PM
Yes you can. This is the type of attitude that coddling one guy can and will permeate a locker room. I know it is in Carr's defense, but it is BS and needs to be squashed, especially with so many rookies getting thrust into starting positions.

Well, you can sit him for a half. Something to break him out of a bad rhythm. However, you can't take away his job in the middle of his best season so far, particularly when it's also been one of the better seasons by any NFL starting QB.

beerlover
10-31-2006, 12:38 PM
the Texans are playing the freaking NY Giants this weekend in the Meadowlands, those same Giants that manhandled the Cowboys who manhandled the Texans, this is going to be ugly. We won't have to worry about David playing the 2nd half again & not because Kubiak pulls him out of the game for turnovers but because he is going to have to be picked up off the carpet and taken to the hospital for X-Rays.

Last I checked Houston was leading the league in give aways with a -9 (6 int./9 fum.) while the Giants are a plus 1, wonder how thats going to work for Carr & the Texans. Not to mention the strength of the Giants defense is their defensive line w/- Michael Strahan, Osi Umenyiora, Barry Cofield & Fred Robbins. anyone care to guess how thats gonna match-up against this Texans O-Line?

So why even put Carr into this position? Let Sage start & see if he can read & get rid of the ball quickly, not to mention get the running game working while David make his adjustments on the sideline & learn how to read defenses something he was never given the opportunity to do as a rookie, my guess its pretty hard to learn anything while layed out on your back 76 times in a season other than throwing INT's and Fumbling the rock.

hollywood_texan
10-31-2006, 12:47 PM
Carr is going to have to rebound agains the Giants on the road?

Come on guys and gals, it's a long shot at best. It could happen, but I don't see the Texans offense putting up enough points on the board to keep up with a very good Giants offense.

The Texans offense still hasn't scored a TD on the road in the first half. What have we seen that shows that is going to change? The offense is going to need to score 14 to 17 points in the first half to keep this game honest in the second half.

More than likely, things are going to get a lot worse for Carr before they get better because of the competition the next two weeks, if he lasts that long.

Kaiser Toro
10-31-2006, 12:51 PM
Well, you can sit him for a half. Something to break him out of a bad rhythm. However, you can't take away his job in the middle of his best season so far, particularly when it's also been one of the better seasons by any NFL starting QB.

Ok, so that makes the two of us not advocating that.

Double Barrel
10-31-2006, 01:06 PM
I think David Carr's objective this week is to not lose the game against the Giants.

I don't expect him to have a great game against a tough defense. But I do expect him to stop making mental mistakes that cost us points and momentum.

I expected the team to rally behind Carr, especially when the head coach makes a statement immediately after the game that he's still a starter. Nobody is going to publicly question that decision at this point.

real
10-31-2006, 01:07 PM
I think David Carr's objective this week is to not lose the game against the Giants.

If Carr comes out playing like that I'd be upset...

michaelm
10-31-2006, 01:29 PM
I think I'm gonna be ill. David Carr shouldn't be mentioned with Steve Young, John Elway, Jim Kelly or Warren Moon....it's just not fair to those great HOF players. Carr isn't in their class and I find it amazing people keep mentioning Carr with those guys.

To keep it in context, I don't believe anyone ever made any comparisons. There are guys with the team that played with or coached those specific HOF players, and had anecdotal examples of them going through similar difficult times, but working through them to become the players they eventually became.
Nothing wrong with that, IMO... you can tell me a story about George Washington and the cherry tree, it may inspire me, but doesn't mean you think I'll become the founder of a nation...

cbnjwill
10-31-2006, 01:31 PM
for whatever reasons david carr has been given the longest leash of any qb in the history of football. there is not another organiztion that would run this guy out there game after game year after year like the texans have.carr has been the starting qb for 5 freaking yrs of bad football. yes first two yrs. can be thrown out as expansion yrs. so lets just take the last season and half. if your starting qb has a record of 4-19 over that period of time you make a change period. granted you cant put it entirely on carr but tell me one organization that wouldnt make a change after that many pathetic games. look when a team is going bad you make a change at the qb spot thats how it is in the nfl. at some point this organzation needs to say we tried but carr just hasnt worked out here. sage is a better qb than carr and for the rest of the season should be the starter but wont get the chance too. although sage is the better qb he also is not the long term option at qb either. this team should have drafted a qb this yr. but didnt now will probably have to draft one this yr. carr and sage are both really backup qbs in this league but id rather have sage as a backup than carr. the bad part of this whole situation is that after 5 yrs of football we dont have a qb and unless we can trade for one or get lucky in free agence we will have to start all over again with a rookie qb. yeah we added sum nice pieces in the draft this yr. but this team has a long way to go.i would have thought we would be better at this point but in all honesty this team has been poorly managed with bad draft picks and poor personel moves, i think it will be another couple of seasons before they can turn it around. man thats a long wait

Nighthawk
10-31-2006, 01:59 PM
Carr has been immense this season

What's our record? Carr's stats may be good but he's done next to nothing for the team.

GP
10-31-2006, 02:39 PM
I guess we'll see how all this plays out.

Kaiser, you too were praising David for his early efficiency in spite of our team's record thus far. I mean, you were not coming completely out of your sniper's perch...but you relented a little.

Now we're back to square one: People doubt he can do it.

I was glad David was pulled. I felt it was a good switch of pace for the whole team to get him out of there after what had happened. I do not dislike Sage enough to NOT want him as the starter. I'm all about winning, and I could care if it's with Gary Coleman or Screech or Tonya Harding or Joan Rivers at QB.

New York's pass rush is deadly. Only a great playcalling effort will save us, regardless of WHO is at the QB position. Sage offers less, IMO, in terms of mobility and QB rushing.

I like what someone else said that McKinney was banging on Salaam and that Salaam apologized to David. Seems I also heard from another poster that Salaam has been plagued with the problem of disappearing and allowing the QB to get smashed too often.

And there was a Pro Bowl receiver Sunday who should have been benched, too, if we're basing this on a per-player basis. Oh, but he CAUGHT a TD pass...so we can't bench him, can we? Pftttttttt. Whatever.

I'm asking for equal "benching" protocol. That's all.

GP
10-31-2006, 02:42 PM
What's our record? Carr's stats may be good but he's done next to nothing for the team.

And you can say that about Andre Johnson, too.

Dude dropped TWO 3rd down passes that were IN HIS HANDS, and it led to 14 Titans points. Do the math...and you see why we lost by 6.

We would have won by at least 1 point, maybe even more if AJ holds onto the friggin ball.

jerek
10-31-2006, 02:47 PM
What's our record? Carr's stats may be good but he's done next to nothing for the team.

A piss argument since for months you insisted that part of Vince's allure was that his team won, when now they are no better than us. You can't have it both ways.

TEXANRED
10-31-2006, 05:16 PM
What's our record? Carr's stats may be good but he's done next to nothing for the team.

As always Nighthawk you bring insight and vision to the conversation.

UTVinceYoung
10-31-2006, 05:48 PM
"You can't sit a guy after one bad half.

:francis: just one bad half oh nevermind I'm going to be nice.

Texanfan4ever
10-31-2006, 06:04 PM
for whatever reasons david carr has been given the longest leash of any qb in the history of football. there is not another organiztion that would run this guy out there game after game year after year like the texans have.carr has been the starting qb for 5 freaking yrs of bad football. yes first two yrs. can be thrown out as expansion yrs. so lets just take the last season and half. if your starting qb has a record of 4-19 over that period of time you make a change period. granted you cant put it entirely on carr but tell me one organization that wouldnt make a change after that many pathetic games. look when a team is going bad you make a change at the qb spot thats how it is in the nfl. at some point this organzation needs to say we tried but carr just hasnt worked out here. sage is a better qb than carr and for the rest of the season should be the starter but wont get the chance too. although sage is the better qb he also is not the long term option at qb either. this team should have drafted a qb this yr. but didnt now will probably have to draft one this yr. carr and sage are both really backup qbs in this league but id rather have sage as a backup than carr. the bad part of this whole situation is that after 5 yrs of football we dont have a qb and unless we can trade for one or get lucky in free agence we will have to start all over again with a rookie qb. yeah we added sum nice pieces in the draft this yr. but this team has a long way to go.i would have thought we would be better at this point but in all honesty this team has been poorly managed with bad draft picks and poor personel moves, i think it will be another couple of seasons before they can turn it around. man thats a long wait


Were you on here last week after the Jags, and if so, what were you saying??? I could go back and check, just don't feel like it. I'mpretty sure if I found something, what it would be.

thunderkyss
10-31-2006, 06:41 PM
He had one bad game. Carr has been immense this season, it would take a major skid for him to be pulled as starter and I really don't see that happening.

Were is this one bad game crap coming from??

He did the same thing against Indy, Washinton, Miami & Dallas. Including this game, that is five out of 7 games that David Turned the ball over.... Dallas is the only game that it was 2 Ints(one definitely not his fault), but the others were multiple fumble games, where he lost at least one that went for a score.


I believe David is the future, and I believe David should start against NYG, but we need to be honest about the situation, and pray like heck, that Kubiak is as well.

I seriously doubt CoachK is thinking David had one bad half.

real
10-31-2006, 06:48 PM
Fred Weary's on 610....now.....

tsip
10-31-2006, 07:09 PM
IMO, Kubiak is setting himself up for a 'major' fall-out with his QB situation. First, why in the world does he have to come out and publically 'coddle' Carr in the media, like Carr has been since 'day one.' What is going on here? Did Carr get his feelings hurt? Is his mind set that fragile? Does this kind of situation exist anywhere else in the NFL?

By putting Carr on a 'silver platter,' what is Kubiak going to do if Carr's play on the field has a 'total' melt down? IMO, I was hoping to see Carr 'elevate' his play/consistency as part of a 'team' move upward/forward---instead, we've got the team apologizing to Carr???

...sorry, but I'm having a tough time with this...:twocents: :brickwall

thunderkyss
10-31-2006, 07:22 PM
I like what someone else said that McKinney was banging on Salaam and that Salaam apologized to David. Seems I also heard from another poster that Salaam has been plagued with the problem of disappearing and allowing the QB to get smashed too often.


& that's what's really sad. This was Salaam's only bad game, and he was playing hurt, doing the best he could for our team. The only person we should be upset with is Kubiak, because Salaam all of a sudden got better, and played better as soon as Sage was in the game.

Sure, he had a couple of false starts, but we still scored on ,most of those drives.
we scored a field goal on the first one, making the score 3-7 Tennessee.

we got two first downs after Salaam's second false start... but that drive was killed by David's fumble that was returned for a TD.

we scored a touchdown(Sage to Andre(beautiful athletic catch) for 10 yds) 6 plays, and 3 penalties later. This was largely due to that fact that our QB can see further than 4 yards down the field when it's 3rd & 6, or 1st & 18, & Sage had just been sacked by VandenBosch which was called back for offsides.

when was the last time we picked up a first down after our QB had been sacked??

Kaiser Toro
10-31-2006, 07:25 PM
I guess we'll see how all this plays out.

Kaiser, you too were praising David for his early efficiency in spite of our team's record thus far. I mean, you were not coming completely out of your sniper's perch...but you relented a little.

Absolutely I was, with caution. Carr simply needs to string some games along where he does not turn the ball over and make some plays in the pocket. Until he gets it right we will most likely being doing this dance until his contract expires or Kubiak makes a judgement call.

The benching was huge and what many have been asking for years to happen. And yes when I saw Sage going in for Carr I was certain and hopeful Kubiak would put Carr back in, even before AJ's incompletion was intercepted. Carr needed a wake up call, let's hope he responds.

thunderkyss
10-31-2006, 07:28 PM
I'm asking for equal "benching" protocol. That's all.

You find us a player that was involved with 5 ints & 7 lost fumbles over the last 7 games, and we'll bench his sorry ass too.

NFLforher
10-31-2006, 08:35 PM
I think I'm gonna be ill. David Carr shouldn't be mentioned with Steve Young, John Elway, Jim Kelly or Warren Moon....it's just not fair to those great HOF players. Carr isn't in their class and I find it amazing people keep mentioning Carr with those guys.

Take a pill then. :yawn:

NFLforher
10-31-2006, 08:36 PM
Absolutely I was, with caution. Carr simply needs to string some games along where he does not turn the ball over and make some plays in the pocket. Until he gets it right we will most likely being doing this dance until his contract expires or Kubiak makes a judgement call.

The benching was huge and what many have been asking for years to happen. And yes when I saw Sage going in for Carr I was certain and hopeful Kubiak would put Carr back in, even before AJ's incompletion was intercepted. Carr needed a wake up call, let's hope he responds.

I was not against the benching. You can't play like that and expect to be left in the game. Period.

Kaiser Toro
10-31-2006, 08:45 PM
I was not against the benching. You can't play like that and expect to be left in the game. Period.

He was awful. The game I played and coached is different than football, but as a coach I would have taken him out as Kubiak did on his mandate, rattled him a bit and put him back in. I wonder what would have happened if AJ did not "throw" that interception and we went three and out.

WhyIsItAlwaysNextYear
10-31-2006, 09:13 PM
IMO, Kubiak is setting himself up for a 'major' fall-out with his QB situation. First, why in the world does he have to come out and publically 'coddle' Carr in the media, like Carr has been since 'day one.' What is going on here? Did Carr get his feelings hurt? Is his mind set that fragile? Does this kind of situation exist anywhere else in the NFL?

By putting Carr on a 'silver platter,' what is Kubiak going to do if Carr's play on the field has a 'total' melt down? IMO, I was hoping to see Carr 'elevate' his play/consistency as part of a 'team' move upward/forward---instead, we've got the team apologizing to Carr???

...sorry, but I'm having a tough time with this...:twocents: :brickwall

I agree that Kubiak set put himself in a bad spot but I don't think he expected it to happen. He called david out at half time and told him the protect the ball or he was going to pull him.

He lost a fumble on our first possession following that warning. Everyone keeps saying Carr is coddled, how would it have looked for this first year coach to not follow through on his threat no matter who the player is.

This is what concerns me more now than anything:

1) Our line was a joke against the Titans, Carr should have held onto the ball but in NY if he is distracted by a concern for the ball and has any more of a delay in his delivery behind our line, sacks will pile up like crazy.

2) No way Carr is on a short leash! He can't be, its sounds great to say but the reality of the situation is if Kubiak has to pull Carr again thats it! Anarchy will reign LOL! Kubiak will be admitting Carr has not made the progress necessary to lead a 2-14 team that really just needed to show improvement for the fans to be satisfied. The players who are willing to forgive once or maybe twice will lose faithand the fans will all stroke out! Whether you are a Carr fan or hater it will be ugly for the Texans franchise!

trutexan02
10-31-2006, 10:06 PM
What I find funny is that at one point in time the Houston fan base called for Warren Moon's head and wanted Commander Cody Carlson to start. When it Finlay happened Cody pulled his groin and was out and Moon came back in and had one of the best games of his career.

Little off topic here, any other old Oiler fan a little peeved the Vikings had a tribute for Moon? So far he has been honored in a city he never played in and and team he played three seasons for.
And I might add Moon went on to win 11 stragiht and first round bye in the playoffs.

thunderkyss
10-31-2006, 10:14 PM
1) Our line was a joke against the Titans, Carr should have held onto the ball but in NY if he is distracted by a concern for the ball and has any more of a delay in his delivery behind our line, sacks will pile up like crazy.


Our Oline could have played better.

But on every hit David took, he had time to throw the ball. On the sacks, he pulled the ball back down, trying to find a better target. I'm not saying that David caused the sacks, only that he didn't help himself either.

What was our game plan against the Cowboys??

We all said that it wasn't necessary to sack Bledsoe.... just pressure him & he wouldn't be able to lead the Cowboys to a win.

trutexan02
10-31-2006, 10:21 PM
The players who are willing to forgive once or maybe twice will lose faithand the fans will all stroke out! Whether you are a Carr fan or hater it will be ugly for the Texans franchise![/QUOTE]b -- WHYISITALWAYSNEXTYEAR

Fans here in Houston have already begun to show the colors that lead to Adams move HIS team to greater pastures elsewhere. MOST have stroked out already. (to yuse your words) And most are on here talking about what should have been done or who should be cut. We should all go back to our desks and work our nine to five jobs and cash ours $1500 bi-weekly checks. Leave the coaching to the people who have been doing it for 20+ years.

On a serious note it's is very east to sit in our lazy boys and second guess Kubes. But after 11 years in the armed service and countless subordinates here is what I've learned.. The next guy always thinks he could have done it better, but when he gets the chance he usually understands the decision of his predecessor were vey close to right on. Kube s is making all teh decisions that he is in the best position to make. No matter how much beter we think we can do. Chances are strongly in favor of Kubes. WE KNOW NOTHING.

tsip
10-31-2006, 10:47 PM
The players who are willing to forgive once or maybe twice will lose faithand the fans will all stroke out! Whether you are a Carr fan or hater it will be ugly for the Texans franchise!b -- WHYISITALWAYSNEXTYEAR

Fans here in Houston have already begun to show the colors that lead to Adams move HIS team to greater pastures elsewhere. MOST have stroked out already. (to yuse your words) And most are on here talking about what should have been done or who should be cut. We should all go back to our desks and work our nine to five jobs and cash ours $1500 bi-weekly checks. Leave the coaching to the people who have been doing it for 20+ years.

On a serious note it's is very east to sit in our lazy boys and second guess Kubes. But after 11 years in the armed service and countless subordinates here is what I've learned.. The next guy always thinks he could have done it better, but when he gets the chance he usually understands the decision of his predecessor were vey close to right on. Kube s is making all teh decisions that he is in the best position to make. No matter how much beter we think we can do. Chances are strongly in favor of Kubes. WE KNOW NOTHING.[/QUOTE]

You know, I hope you're right because we've already waited 4+ years but-you can go back to your desk, if you want--others want to express their views on the forum--because--that's what a forum does...have a nice day...:redtowel:

bigTEXan8
10-31-2006, 10:52 PM
being the carr homer that i am, i think it was good for kubiak to bench carr. i think it was a kick in the butt that carr needed. it was my feeling that the o-line set him up to fail against the titans, but that's just me. they couldn't block bosch and t. brown to save their lives. that and tenn blitzed on every down, and i think the play calling could have been a tad better, and that's what caused the fumbles, not carr. look, sometimes you need an arse-kicking and some time to think about it.

GP
10-31-2006, 11:07 PM
You find us a player that was involved with 5 ints & 7 lost fumbles over the last 7 games, and we'll bench his sorry ass too.

Salaam false started us into a deep hole how many times?

Salaam allowed blindside hits/hurries/sacks/fumbles how many times?

AJ dropped two STRAIGHT 3rd down passes that immediately led to 14 Titans points. And this is NOT the first time he's turned his head upfield before fully clutching the football--It's a pattern, but hey...he's a big playmaker and that stuff's bound to happen (Unless you're Carr, and then it's because you suck).

A 12th man shows up in the huddle and that's Carr's fault, too, I guess. Seriously, how many other NFL teams have had a 12th man in the huddle? I watch other games and our team is the only team who does this. It's embarassing that mulit-millionaire players and coaches in the NFL allow this to happen and we get burned for penalty yards on it. That's stuff that puts the QB in an immediate no-win situation from the get-go...and then our Pro Bowl receiver drops a key 3rd down pass that was right in his hands. Stuff like that pisses me off because OTHERS are just as guilty as the "worst QB in the history of the NFL" is.

Carr is a magnet for hate. We had ZERO of this crap when he was getting protection on a consistent basis and putting up solid TD-to-INT ratio numbers, boosting his QB rating, etc. Now we have one half where I swear the entire team looked like it had dropped acid before kickoff and we're right back to the "Well, David Carr is a punk" crapola again.

It's like a soap opera: Stop watching for a year, come back to it and you find out it's the same plot and storyline. Nothing's changed. You guys have been biting your nails waiting for him to fail, and you pounce on it like a vulture circling overhead.

You guys are the o line's best friend because it's David's fault that Salaam was taking tickets all day long.

eriadoc
10-31-2006, 11:22 PM
You guys have been biting your nails waiting for him to fail, and you pounce on it like a vulture circling overhead.

That's certainly the feeling I get as well. Certain posters here cling to their agendas like a drowning man to a life vest. That would apply to me as well, with my "fix the damn O-line" agenda. Don't care too much who's QB as long as our line thinks Vandebosch is part of our backfield and belongs there (name your pass rusher, it all fits).

WhyIsItAlwaysNextYear
10-31-2006, 11:29 PM
The players who are willing to forgive once or maybe twice will lose faithand the fans will all stroke out! Whether you are a Carr fan or hater it will be ugly for the Texans franchise!b -- WHYISITALWAYSNEXTYEAR

Fans here in Houston have already begun to show the colors that lead to Adams move HIS team to greater pastures elsewhere. MOST have stroked out already. (to yuse your words) And most are on here talking about what should have been done or who should be cut. We should all go back to our desks and work our nine to five jobs and cash ours $1500 bi-weekly checks. Leave the coaching to the people who have been doing it for 20+ years.

On a serious note it's is very east to sit in our lazy boys and second guess Kubes. But after 11 years in the armed service and countless subordinates here is what I've learned.. The next guy always thinks he could have done it better, but when he gets the chance he usually understands the decision of his predecessor were vey close to right on. Kube s is making all teh decisions that he is in the best position to make. No matter how much beter we think we can do. Chances are strongly in favor of Kubes. WE KNOW NOTHING.[/QUOTE]

I agree with what you said and I think Kubiak will do a great job. The only part of what you said here that I cant agree with is the referance to the fans and Bud Adams. Thats is a load of ****! My family had Oilers season tickets from 77' until Bud split town. The fans agreed to pay for the remod of the Dome which we are still paying on, we came out in droves during the Luv Ya Blye era and even packed the done for pep rallies after losses to Pittsburgh. We jammed the Dome during the House Of Pain days screaming and stomping until you could feel the building rock. Hell I was even there with tens of thosands of other when Bud pulled up the astro turf and had had the nfl call the game saying his stadiums (the dome) turf was unsafe. Bud left because rather than appealling to the fans he used strong arm tactics and a series of stunts and got himself into a pissing contest with Ol' Bob Lanier and Bud was having none of that and took his team to Tennesse. Nobody was goning to tell Bud what he could and could not do! Dont blame the fans we were there, we were their for the defeats to Pitt., we were their for the Howfield fiasco, were were there for Black Sunday when Frank Reich brought the Bills back, we were there when a supposed over the hill Montana led the Chiefs right throough Buddy Ryans defense! There are alot of things about Houston fans that can be said but the fans had nothing at all to do with Bud Adams leaving town. It was rich men in a test of wills and Bud proved that he who owns the toy is going to win!

Sorry for the rant but as a Houston football fan since birth who has spent unknown ten of thousands of dollars on tickets, food, beer, travel, more beer and team merchendise it kills me when people blame the fans for the Oilers departure.

thunderkyss
10-31-2006, 11:33 PM
Salaam false started us into a deep hole how many times?
Carr is a magnet for hate. We had ZERO of this crap when he was getting protection on a consistent basis and putting up solid TD-to-INT ratio numbers, boosting his QB rating, etc. Now we have one half where I swear the entire team looked like it had dropped acid before kickoff and we're right back to the "Well, David Carr is a punk" crapola again.

You guys are the o line's best friend because it's David's fault that Salaam was taking tickets all day long.

Bullpucky.....

We had the same crap against Indy, Washington, Miami, & Dallas.... including tennessee, that's 5 of 7 games where David Carr Fumbled the ball, or threw Ints when there was no(none, zip, zero, zilch, nada) pressure on him. How many times was David sacked against Dallas?? One..... how many times was he hit?? maybe three.

did you watch any Dallas Games this year?? Bledsoe vs Romo?? Carr vs Sage?? it's the same thing. We gave up no sacks when Sage was in the game, to the same 4 man rush that had Carr coughing up footballs.

& false starts hurt...... I ain't gone lie. But none of them, not one of them stopped a drive..... One of the flase starts was on the drive that led to David's fumble that was returned for a touchdown.......

the other, was on the progression that Sage scored a touchdown.

go figure.

Some guys need excuses..... some guys make up for their guys mistakes..... it's called putting a team on his back.

Texas
10-31-2006, 11:35 PM
Put him on the bench and it will wake him up that hes not invincible...he will give us a better chance against NYG now that hes fired up!

GP
10-31-2006, 11:38 PM
That's certainly the feeling I get as well. Certain posters here cling to their agendas like a drowning man to a life vest. That would apply to me as well, with my "fix the damn O-line" agenda. Don't care too much who's QB as long as our line thinks Vandebosch is part of our backfield and belongs there (name your pass rusher, it all fits).

i would say a few just want to win and thus truly think that Carr is not the best option. That's fine with me.

But when I see all the non-football related comments (i.e. the "pretty boy" sarcastic remarks) and then pair it up with their comments about VY and how much better he is...then it's fairly easy to see that MOST of the Carr haters have a vested interest in seeing Carr fail. It gets their "guy" (VY in most cases) over the top as the "answer" that we should have had on draft day. It proves them right, in their mind, and they care more about "their guy" than they do about the team.

I don't want to see ANY member of our team fail. I root for the whole 53-man roster. I am really pee'od at Andre Johnson right now, but I can't find it within myself to say that he COMPLETELY stinks and should be cut and kicked to the curb. I root for him to get better at catching passes that are practically placed into his hands, and I think he should be benched for HIS lack of focus just as Carr was, but that doesn't get in the way of me desiring for him to stay on the team.

I root for the team, not for the player(s). And as long as David Carr is on our team, I'm not going to abandon him because it's suddenly the sexy thing to do around here.

If Kubiak and Co. do not come up with a very real gameplan to stop the Giants rush, it won't matter who is at QB for us. Period.

GP
10-31-2006, 11:52 PM
Bullpucky.....

We had the same crap against Indy, Washington, Miami, & Dallas.... including tennessee, that's 5 of 7 games where David Carr Fumbled the ball, or threw Ints when there was no(none, zip, zero, zilch, nada) pressure on him. How many times was David sacked against Dallas?? One..... how many times was he hit?? maybe three.

did you watch any Dallas Games this year?? Bledsoe vs Romo?? Carr vs Sage?? it's the same thing. We gave up no sacks when Sage was in the game, to the same 4 man rush that had Carr coughing up footballs.

& false starts hurt...... I ain't gone lie. But none of them, not one of them stopped a drive..... One of the flase starts was on the drive that led to David's fumble that was returned for a touchdown.......

the other, was on the progression that Sage scored a touchdown.

go figure.

Some guys need excuses..... some guys make up for their guys mistakes..... it's called putting a team on his back.

The Miami game and the Jax game were the two games where I feel that the entire offense and the coaching staff were on the same page. Everybody looked good, including David Carr....it was synergy at its best. And it helped that a defense showed up and drove a dagger thorugh the heart of those two teams when it counted. If a ball is in the hands of Simmons and he drops it, that's the same as David making a mistake IMO. It's a mistake. You dont' get a lot of opportunities as a dback to get a shot at INT'ing a pass...you gotta' make it count. We aren't doing that this year, and it's a lack of focus. It's Demeco making great plays all game long and then runnig right past the QB and allowing a big play...it doesn't define him for the rest of his career, but it was a lack of focus that allows a big swing in momentum: We could have momentum OUR way, but it went the other way. Same with David.

When you put on the goggles of objectivity, you can see that David is not solely responsible for this team's success or failure. He's one of the 53 men that are part of a team, his position is magnified because when he lets go of the ball (to pass, in my example, not to fumble) it's in OTHER people's hands to catch it and do something with it, but yet a blocker lets a guy slip by and pund him in the rib cage and it's ALSO his fault.

He has been pretty dadgum nice about how he displays his emotions after the dropped passes IMO, and then something happens to him on the next play or two and everybody screams for his head on a platter...go figure. I'm sure he's thought to himself "Hell, if somebody would catch a ball when it counts we'd be looking at a different set of circumstances here."

The other games you mention are not games that the o line was like a bunch of faultless angels with halos over their heads. There was NO running game to speak of...it's always nice as a QB to know that you'll be passing every down to get something going--Knowing that the defense also knows this, as well. The Colts pass but can switch to a run in a heartbeat and clice you up with it. We can't do that, but maybe that's changing now. Who knows for sure. We thought that in the preseason and look at what happened. For all we know, Lundy could get poor blocking in the next few games and it'll look like he is a failure "after all" in the same fashion that carr's being measured with.

thunderkyss
11-01-2006, 12:13 AM
When you put on the goggles of objectivity, you can see that David is not solely responsible for this team's success or failure. He's one of the 53 men that are part of a team, his position is magnified because when he lets go of the ball (to pass, in my example, not to fumble)

I've been asking people for the last two days why they think David sucks so bad.. he's had the exact same game today that he's been having all year. but everybody has been so happy with the progress David has been having.

So I asked...... What if we loose the Titans game??..... & we got exactly what I thought we'd get

Even the guys who thought David was great, are saying they had enough, when he did absolutely nothing different....

He actually played better in this game, than he has in all our other games this year, with the exception of the Miami game.

He's getting better, he should start the NYG game....... he is our future QB, no questions asked.

You can question whether it was the right thing to do to bench Carr during the Tennesse game. But you can't question benching him. He needed to be benched. 3 fumbles against Indy... 3 fumbles against Washington, 2 fumbles against Miami, 2 fumbles against Tennesse.....

that's ridiculous. If AJ fumbled the ball & the defense recovered 50% of them, you can bet your ass he'll be sitting on the bench, only he wouldn't be back in the game.

Remember when Lundy fumbled the ball?? that was 5 games ago..... Kubiak inactivated the little booger & taught him a lesson. It will be quite some time before he fumbles again, I can gaurantee you that. he fumbled once, David fumbled three times in that same game. Lundy was in Indy Territory when he fumbled.... he picked up a first down, then fumbled. But not Dave.... one of them, David gave them the ball in the redzone..... that's inside the 20 yard line. the other time, i think was on the 26. Our 26 yard line.

I'd have benched Carr in the Dallas game. After he threw the Int to Henry, where he was staring Aj on the sideline......when there was no rush, he could have stayed in that pocket for days.... Get Rosenfells in that game.... then bring Carr back for Jax, and this one.

I do agree that Kubiak had to do it before Game 8.... the first 8 weeks is about looking respectable. I think we look respectable now. From now on out, it's about winning football games, and David had better get his **** together.


As David goes........ the team goes.

not Aj dropping balls on third down. Not RonDayne breaking our Left Tackles, Not Dunta's sorry excuse for Coverage, and not our disappearing safeties.

David.

New_Texans
11-01-2006, 01:29 AM
I thought David wasnt a leader....man the fans know so much (sarcasm).

Frills
11-01-2006, 08:57 AM
Pacino pulled Steamin Willie Beamen after he led them to the playoffs. After the first half he put him back in and it had a tremendous effect on his leadership skills.

Kubiak has watched some film me thinks

jmlockett
11-01-2006, 09:08 AM
The players who are willing to forgive once or maybe twice will lose faithand the fans will all stroke out! Whether you are a Carr fan or hater it will be ugly for the Texans franchise!b -- WHYISITALWAYSNEXTYEAR

Fans here in Houston have already begun to show the colors that lead to Adams move HIS team to greater pastures elsewhere. MOST have stroked out already. (to yuse your words) And most are on here talking about what should have been done or who should be cut. We should all go back to our desks and work our nine to five jobs and cash ours $1500 bi-weekly checks. Leave the coaching to the people who have been doing it for 20+ years.

On a serious note it's is very east to sit in our lazy boys and second guess Kubes. But after 11 years in the armed service and countless subordinates here is what I've learned.. The next guy always thinks he could have done it better, but when he gets the chance he usually understands the decision of his predecessor were vey close to right on. Kube s is making all teh decisions that he is in the best position to make. No matter how much beter we think we can do. Chances are strongly in favor of Kubes. WE KNOW NOTHING.[/QUOTE]

You only make 1500 bi weekly? lol I am sorry couldnt pass it up, you set yourself up,no offense please. I do agree with you and in my opinion you are right on the money. The coach has to have time to shake things up.

Hulk75
11-01-2006, 02:42 PM
Carr has the ability to brown nose his way to keep his job. Just remeber he is friends with Mcnair. Most QB's hardly have that relationship with an owner like Carr does.

Thats why it is going to be so SWEEEEEEET when he gets to hand the Super Bowl trophy over to Mr.McNair, when they win it together.

Brown Nose, now thats funny, I think it takes one low person to say something like that, questioning David Carrs mentality, is that the new thing going around.

tsip
11-01-2006, 02:46 PM
Thats why it is going to be so SWEEEEEEET when he gets to hand the Super Bowl trophy over to Mr.McNair, when they win it together.

Brown Nose, now thats funny, I think it takes one low person to say something like that, questioning David Carrs mentality, is that the new thing going around.

...speaking of nose, I sure hope you don't hold your breath waiting to see Carr hand over that trophy!!:yikes: :brickwall :redtowel:

ridn4_8
11-01-2006, 02:57 PM
Carr just keeps gettin bashed here and on the field...lol. I think what needs to be remembered here is the system that Kubes has brought to Houston. Its all brand frickin new for the offense and they are all learning it. We might as well crown everyone on the offense as Rookies until they get this under their belt. After 7 games...its starting to come together, albeit, slowly.

There were some comparisons made of Carr to Elway and Young. I'll throw one more in the mix---Favre. If you look back to Elway's and Favre's careers in the early stages, they too were very disliked by the fans. Personally, as a former Bronco Fan...I hated Elway and though he was the worst move Denver could have ever made. Favre, according to my Dad, had no business on the field. Obviously, we were both wrong...

The point is to let it ride and see what happens. Carr is a tough SOB, and IF he can work through the errors of the last game and put them behind him, and the O-Line does a better job of blocking, I am confident we will start seeing impressive things from these guys.

One last thing to point out...although the record show 2-5....thats still better than last year....

The Pencil Neck
11-01-2006, 03:13 PM
One last thing to point out...although the record show 2-5....thats still better than last year....

Actually, it only has the potential to be a better record at this point. We have to win at least 1 more game at some point before we can really say it's a better record.

But... I think this is a better team than last year's team. Hopefully we'll be able to put some pieces together soon and get a few more W's.

Runner
11-01-2006, 03:20 PM
If you look back to Elway's and Favre's careers in the early stages, they too were very disliked by the fans.
...
The point is to let it ride and see what happens.


Define "early stages" - was it 4 1/2 years for them? Did they show the same rate of progress?

How long do we let it ride - two more games? The rest of the season? 4 more years?

I was happy to give Carr a chance under Kubiak, but I don't want to see the same limited improvement for 5 more years. That isn't good enough. The time for excuses is over for me.

ridn4_8
11-01-2006, 03:27 PM
Their early stage, I'll grant you, were mostly their first 2 to 3 years. But keep in mind that these guys came in under established systems for their individual team and had to work into those respective systems. Yes, Carr has given us, to say the least, some mediocre seasons. At the same time, we cant stick it all on the QB. But to go from a defensive minded coach and his playbook to an offensive minded coach and his playbook is like a 180 degree turn-around. To say that Carr is not learning the system fast enough may be true...but is the rest of the offense learning any faster??

Runner
11-01-2006, 03:40 PM
Their early stage, I'll grant you, were mostly their first 2 to 3 years. But keep in mind that these guys came in under established systems for their individual team and had to work into those respective systems. Yes, Carr has given us, to say the least, some mediocre seasons. At the same time, we cant stick it all on the QB. But to go from a defensive minded coach and his playbook to an offensive minded coach and his playbook is like a 180 degree turn-around. To say that Carr is not learning the system fast enough may be true...but is the rest of the offense learning any faster??

Good point about the established systems.

The question about learning fast enough isn't necessarily about the new system though. If he makes the same fundamental mistakes year after year - misreads defenses (coverages, blitzes, etc.), doesn't take care of the ball, locks in on one receiver, throws to the wrong receiver, etc. then it isn't about the system. It is about how much he's learned in 4.5 years.

thunderkyss
11-01-2006, 03:40 PM
Carr just keeps gettin bashed here and on the field...lol.

Truth is, that Carr has been getting a free pass here over the last six weeks... most of us, even the Carr haters have been giving him & Kubiak props for the improvements we've seen in David & the Offense.

The Pencil Neck
11-01-2006, 04:28 PM
I can think of 8 million reasons Sage will not be our starter this season. Can you imagine how stupid thats gonna make Kubes look to Big Daddy Bob? Besides, ya gotta love the fight in David ...

I really wish people would get over the whole $8 million thing.

Most of the guys that own teams really don't care that much about $8 million. That's like 20-30 bucks to a regular person.

Yeah, if David isn't the guy, we shouldn't have paid him that money. We don't need the cap hit. But for most owners, assuming that they want to win, they're not going to let a little thing like $10-15 million get in their way.

HJam72
11-01-2006, 05:36 PM
I sure wish Mr. McNair would spot me about 5 bucks. :)

HJam72
11-01-2006, 05:38 PM
...but I don't want to see the same limited improvement for 5 more years.

Dude, you just have no patience at all. :)

Double Barrel
11-01-2006, 05:46 PM
Dude, you just have no patience at all. :)

Kids these days....they want it all now. *sigh* :shades:

ridn4_8
11-01-2006, 08:01 PM
Good point about the established systems.

The question about learning fast enough isn't necessarily about the new system though. If he makes the same fundamental mistakes year after year - misreads defenses (coverages, blitzes, etc.), doesn't take care of the ball, locks in on one receiver, throws to the wrong receiver, etc. then it isn't about the system. It is about how much he's learned in 4.5 years.

I agree on the learning thing. But wouldn't you say that "good learning" from a good teacher is just as critical as the student?? I would say that Carr has not had much in the way of a "good teacher". Maybe I am being a little easy on this subject, but at the same time, I personally would like to see this system work out, regardles of who is the chosen QB. Currently, its Carr, so I figure, give him a chance and the system to work, before I start calling for his head...
Any improvement over last year would certainly be an improvement on the scope of things for the team.

thunderkyss
11-01-2006, 08:47 PM
I agree on the learning thing. But wouldn't you say that "good learning" from a good teacher is just as critical as the student?? I would say that Carr has not had much in the way of a "good teacher". Maybe I am being a little easy on this subject, but at the same time, I personally would like to see this system work out, regardles of who is the chosen QB. Currently, its Carr, so I figure, give him a chance and the system to work, before I start calling for his head...
Any improvement over last year would certainly be an improvement on the scope of things for the team.

I do believe there is some truth to what you are saying.

But I also believe Peyton Manning would be Peyton Manning, Tom Brady would be Tom Brady, McNabb would be McNabb, & Vince would be Vince, no matter where they went. Some things you can't teach, and people with strong personalities tend to define their surroundings more than their surroundings define them.

TimCouch, CharlieBatch, JoeyHarrinton, EricCrouch, & RyanLeaf all would have had completely different careers had they gone to different teams.

tsip
11-01-2006, 08:50 PM
Carr had problems learning/executing Palmer's playbook, and they finally gave up trying to teach it to him, finally trying to simplify everything as much as they could for David.

IMO, the problem is not in giving Carr the time to learn Kubiak's offense--rather, the problem is Carr being able to 'grasp' what little he's been 'exposed' to and effectively executing it on the field. JMO, but this is why Sage's results are better on the field than Carrs. Sage understands what they have been taught of the playbook so far and David--like with Palmer's playbook--does not....some people get 'things' and some people don't...

The bottom line is that what we've gotten so far from Carr the past 4+ years may be the best its going to get--great physical tools, weak comprehension/execution. Kubiak's offense requires effective/timely decision making and--simply put-this appears to be a Carr weakness....not trying to 'knock' David here...:twocents:

Koolbrz
11-01-2006, 10:23 PM
I believe Salaam apologized to david and McKenney actually dogged his fellow O lineman saying THEY need to play better, not david.


But I see David getting killed against the Giants, Sage will be the starter and I will see if Sage is the man to take us to the promised land.


If David is getting killed, Sage will suffer the same fate!! If P. Manning was our QB he to would suffer the same fate...doesn't matter who is back there. If the O-line stinks it up again I dont care if we have J. Montana in his prime, he will get killed also....enough said

thunderkyss
11-01-2006, 10:30 PM
If David is getting killed, Sage will suffer the same fate!! If P. Manning was our QB he to would suffer the same fate...doesn't matter who is back there. If the O-line stinks it up again I dont care if we have J. Montana in his prime, he will get killed also....enough said

That's what they said in Dallas.

ridn4_8
11-01-2006, 11:17 PM
Carr had problems learning/executing Palmer's playbook, and they finally gave up trying to teach it to him, finally trying to simplify everything as much as they could for David.

IMO, the problem is not in giving Carr the time to learn Kubiak's offense--rather, the problem is Carr being able to 'grasp' what little he's been 'exposed' to and effectively executing it on the field. JMO, but this is why Sage's results are better on the field than Carrs. Sage understands what they have been taught of the playbook so far and David--like with Palmer's playbook--does not....some people get 'things' and some people don't...

The bottom line is that what we've gotten so far from Carr the past 4+ years may be the best its going to get--great physical tools, weak comprehension/execution. Kubiak's offense requires effective/timely decision making and--simply put-this appears to be a Carr weakness....not trying to 'knock' David here...:twocents:

I cant disagree with what you're sayin...lol. Maybe it will work and maybe it wont. Theres no way any of us will know..unless you are a fortune teller..then send me yer number...I got some horses I wanna bet...lol.

TexaninDenver
11-01-2006, 11:33 PM
Were is this one bad game crap coming from??

He did the same thing against Indy, Washinton, Miami & Dallas. Including this game, that is five out of 7 games that David Turned the ball over.... Dallas is the only game that it was 2 Ints(one definitely not his fault), but the others were multiple fumble games, where he lost at least one that went for a score.


I believe David is the future, and I believe David should start against NYG, but we need to be honest about the situation, and pray like heck, that Kubiak is as well.

I seriously doubt CoachK is thinking David had one bad half.


Maybe all David needs is a little time to reflect on what happened. (Oh, and a football season's supply of Super Glue for gameday wouldn't hurt, either)

tsip
11-01-2006, 11:37 PM
If David is getting killed, Sage will suffer the same fate!! If P. Manning was our QB he to would suffer the same fate...doesn't matter who is back there. If the O-line stinks it up again I dont care if we have J. Montana in his prime, he will get killed also....enough said

Against the Titans, Carr got sacked 3 times--Sage, ZERO.

Koolbrz
11-02-2006, 11:11 PM
Against the Titans, Carr got sacked 3 times--Sage, ZERO.


We are talking about the Giants not the Titans dude...get with the program! You can not even compare the 2 defensive lines. Giants are way better than the Titans.

wolfscar
11-03-2006, 06:52 AM
I agree on the learning thing. But wouldn't you say that "good learning" from a good teacher is just as critical as the student?? I would say that Carr has not had much in the way of a "good teacher". Maybe I am being a little easy on this subject, but at the same time, I personally would like to see this system work out, regardles of who is the chosen QB. Currently, its Carr, so I figure, give him a chance and the system to work, before I start calling for his head...
Any improvement over last year would certainly be an improvement on the scope of things for the team.

I agree - David's got some really bad habits that should have been coached out of him a long time ago but I think we've been seeing steady improvements in aspects of his game all season, specifically because he finally has a coach who is looking at improving his faults rather than just waiting for him to magically turn into Peyton Manning. Other aspects still suck, but you can't expect everything to come together all at once and for me it's starting to look like he's finally working with the right people. He may not be the ultimate answer to our QB question but I'm certain that Sage Rosenfels is not the answer. He's a great backup, but let's not elevate him to a role he can't fill.

wolfscar
11-03-2006, 07:01 AM
I do believe there is some truth to what you are saying.

But I also believe Peyton Manning would be Peyton Manning, Tom Brady would be Tom Brady, McNabb would be McNabb, & Vince would be Vince, no matter where they went. Some things you can't teach, and people with strong personalities tend to define their surroundings more than their surroundings define them.

Yes - you're right. And those are the guys that can slot right into the NFL, straight out of college. But you can also take someone with a lot of talent, cut off the rough edges they brought out of college and help them to grow into a genuine professional quarterback. That's what should have happened with DC, but it never did. He should never have been slotted in at starter straight out of the draft. He should never have been held up as the golden boy by his coaches - they should have taken him under their tutelage, turned him into an NFL QB and made him earn his place. Nobody ever did that, but that seems to be what Kubiak is finally doing. And if you listen to what Kubes is saying about how he takes instruction, DC sounds relieved to me. He sounds like a hardworking kid who got thrown into a new job and told 'Get on with it' and now the new boss is finally sitting him down and teaching him how to work the register. It's four years late, but at least it's finally happening.