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TexansSeminole
10-31-2006, 02:58 AM
Mario has 3.5 sacks in 7 games, on his current track he will have 8 sacks on the season. But what I think he is exceding expectations in is in stopping the run. He is establishing the corner and discouraging teams to run at him.

How does Mario weigh up to your expectations?

Mysteryhunt
10-31-2006, 03:12 AM
i think the problem is the expectations for mario far exceed those for anyone else on the team due to the circumstances of his selection. ryans is by far exceeding expectations but they were not even close to those we all had for mario. i think for a rookie he is looking very good assuming he will continue to learn and get better.

it's sad the inevitable comparisons that are made with the rest of his draft class, but i would say bush is far from reaching the expectations set for him and mario and young are perhaps right at expectations or a tad below them.

the most encouraging thing i've seen from mario is the comments from earlier in the year that he looked lost without a DE motor have gone away. this shows that he is learning and trying, so i think by the end of the year he will have exceeded expectations with around 10 sacks and general solid play from the DE position.

YellerLotYeller
10-31-2006, 03:19 AM
Mario is living up to expectations so far, but on defense Meco is by far the standout. He'll be a great leader for this team in the future. With these 2 guys playin well and Daniels looking dam good, we might have one of the best rookie classes in the league. Now if we can just get Winston out there on the left side(or right side) to prove himself.

coachdent
10-31-2006, 08:14 AM
I think he is doing well. But he does need to show some improvement in a couple of areas.

First, he needs to develop an inside move. He gets into a bit of a rut constantly rushing outside and bull rushing. I have been impressed with his bull rushing. He did it several times against Jacksonville where he just got up underneath the tackle and drove him into Leftwich. Doesn't go down as a sack or a tip or anything measurable, but definitely affected the play.

Secondly, Mario needs to be more violent with his arms on both the pass rush and in the run game. He is engaged entirely too long with the tackle and just spends too much time "riding" the block instead of disengaging and getting to the quarterback. He needs to rip his inside arm up underneath the armpit of the tackle and lift him up and get by him. Haven't seen that as of yet.

I'd like to see the Texans employ more stunts with Mario as well. In the Jacksonville game, there were several occassions where he looped inside and was working on a center or a guard and they had a lot of trouble handling him. This is the only time I saw them run that stunt.

I'd also like to see the Texans get out of this dropping Mario into "coverage" garbage. He is not a cover guy and our defense has enough trouble conventionally. Zone blitzing is not the winning edge. The TD to Vince Young on Sunday was a blown blitz package. We brought pressure with two linebackers coming to the left side of the offense. Mario dropped into coverage to the side they blitzed to. However, the one linebacker came from the right side of the defense, thus vacating the zone. The defensive end to that side needed to drop, or better yet, Mario needed to be on that side mirroring the QB. Either way, it was a silly blitz that was totally uncalled for. Send Mario and let him get to the QB. Drop someone else!

I think he totally shut down the Jags' run game to his side when he was in. Not really mentioned much, but they ran for about seven yards going to Mario's side that day.

Overall, I would give Mario a B-/C grade with the potential to definitely be an A. I think he is going to be a premier DE in this league and will be a staple of our defense for many years to come.

Hulk75
10-31-2006, 08:24 AM
Playing very well, smarter and meaner with his moves from his first couple of games.

MrMeToo
10-31-2006, 08:38 AM
I wouldn't say Mario is exceding expectations,but he's doing alright...

TexanFanInCC
10-31-2006, 10:37 AM
Mario has 3.5 sacks in 7 games, on his current track he will have 8 sacks on the season. But what I think he is exceding expectations in is in stopping the run. He is establishing the corner and discouraging teams to run at him.

How does Mario weigh up to your expectations?

well i knew it was going to be a few games before we saw him start to emerge as a force, but for the most part im extremely pleased. he probably gives the most effort out on the field. if the ball carrier is behind him, he pursues until he personally brings him down. he has been pretty effective as a pass rusher. 3.5 sacks is nice, and he is constantly providing the most push on the d-line. he is getting better each week. if he continues the growth trend, then i would say he was a worthy pick over bush or vince.

Vinny
10-31-2006, 10:40 AM
Mario has 3.5 sacks in 7 games, on his current track he will have 8 sacks on the season. But what I think he is exceding expectations in is in stopping the run. He is establishing the corner and discouraging teams to run at him.

How does Mario weigh up to your expectations?
I'd give him a solid C- and yes, he is still dissapointing to me so far. His sacks are when DeMeco forced the QB, Weaver got robbed of a sack, and his run down of Young - not in the pocket, but when Young pulled down to run. I really haven't seen him put much heat on the QB or change any plays forcing mistakes or blowing up plays. All his sacks are the by-product of other players changing the play and he is moping up. He is hustling and he disappears for long stretches but I do see flashes of potential...but that's all I see really.

Texans_Chick
10-31-2006, 10:50 AM
Check out this FanHouse post: Mario Williams Getting Some Raves (http://texans.aolsportsblog.com/2006/10/28/mario-williams-getting-some-raves/)

Basically it is mostly just pointing out a McClain gossip blog post. From McClain:

I'm talking about Williams making plays and being disruptive. He hasn't been great, but he's been getting better the last two games against Dallas and Jacksonville. If you don't believe me, I just got off the phone with two NFL personnel directors who watched the Texans' game, and they were raving about the way Williams played and the way they think he will play. There were three NFL scouts in the pressbox. I spoke with them before, during and after the game, and they were raving about Williams and DeMeco Ryans.

So, I'm not saying Williams was worth the first pick or that he's playing great because so far he hasn't been, but the fact is that he's gotten better the last two weeks. Even Stevie Wonder could see it. If any of you want to rip on Williams this week, fine, but just remember that NFL scouts and personnel directors have a little more credibility. At least this week.

FWIW.

TexansSeminole
10-31-2006, 12:43 PM
I'd give him a solid C- and yes, he is still dissapointing to me so far. His sacks are when DeMeco forced the QB, Weaver got robbed of a sack, and his run down of Young - not in the pocket, but when Young pulled down to run. I really haven't seen him put much heat on the QB or change any plays forcing mistakes or blowing up plays. All his sacks are the by-product of other players changing the play and he is moping up. He is hustling and he disappears for long stretches but I do see flashes of potential...but that's all I see really.

That is an interesting point, and true from what I have seen. Obviously it is not a bad thing that our team is working well together to get sacks, but your saying you can't solely credit Mario for those 3.5 sacks and I agree.

In the last few games I have been noticing Mario be more and more disruptive to the pass and the run. He may not break free of his lineman often and get in the QBs face like many top DEs in the league do...but he seems to push his blocker into the QB on alot of pass plays and atleast give the opposing QB a "time limit" when the rest of our defense is not gettin pressure. Before, like last year, when our defense struggled at getting pressure the opposing QB would sit back in the pocket for what seemed like 10 seconds and almost always make a play. I am seeing Mario's edition change that a little bit.

How are most of you grading him against the run?

coachdent
10-31-2006, 12:46 PM
How are most of you grading him against the run?

Before the Jacksonville game, I thought he was doing quite poorly. He was getting singled up against tight ends, which is totally unacceptible for a DEnd. But in the Jacksonville game, he totally dominated his side and forced the Jags to run to the opposite side.

Jags game = A++
Overall = B / B-

Double Barrel
10-31-2006, 01:11 PM
From McClain:

If any of you want to rip on Williams this week, fine, but just remember that NFL scouts and personnel directors have a little more credibility. At least this week.

heh, McClain pulling the NFL scout card. Classic.

Mario has improved, but it's obvious that he has a LOT to learn before he turns into a dominant force on the D-line.

Titan "Tack" Fan
10-31-2006, 01:53 PM
8 sacks in one season is very mediocre. I remember a guy by the name of Jevon Kearse that we drafted that had 14.5 his rookie season.

run-david-run
10-31-2006, 01:58 PM
I would like to see us finnaly put Mario at LDE for good with Babin or Peek on the other side. Starting him and Weaver at the same time is not a good idea and a main reason as to why he is leading the team with 3.5 sacks and no one else is even close. I think for the last couple of games he has been at LDE for the most part, and we as a team have done very well against the run. All in all, I think we had very unreal expectations from Mario coming into the season, but his progress from Week 1 to last week is obvious, and as long as it continues, I am very happy with him.

Mr. White
10-31-2006, 01:59 PM
8 sacks in one season is very mediocre.

Signed,
Michael Strahan and Dwight Freeney

October 31, 2006

run-david-run
10-31-2006, 02:02 PM
8 sacks in one season is very mediocre. I remember a guy by the name of Jevon Kearse that we drafted that had 14.5 his rookie season.

Was he drafted to a 2-14 expansion team converting from a 3-4 with no real pass-rusher? Other then Mario, who is our best lineman? ND Kalu? Weaver? You have to look at the entire situation: he is only 21, went to NC State and did not receive the premier coaching like Reggie, VY, DeMeco etc. For the first few weeks we moved him around every position on the D-line, making it pretty hard for him to adjust to NFL speed. At this point, he has recorded sacks in back-to-back games and is leading the team in sacks, not too bad for a rook. Also, he is improving every week from game to game. By the way, 87 passing yards in a game and a completion percentage below 50% for the season dosnt even constitue mediocre.

Titan "Tack" Fan
10-31-2006, 02:15 PM
Was he drafted to a 2-14 expansion team converting from a 3-4 with no real pass-rusher? Other then Mario, who is our best lineman? ND Kalu? Weaver? You have to look at the entire situation: he is only 21, went to NC State and did not receive the premier coaching like Reggie, VY, DeMeco etc. For the first few weeks we moved him around every position on the D-line, making it pretty hard for him to adjust to NFL speed. At this point, he has recorded sacks in back-to-back games and is leading the team in sacks, not too bad for a rook. Also, he is improving every week from game to game. By the way, 87 passing yards in a game and a completion percentage below 50% for the season dosnt even constitue mediocre.

He scored two TDs on your precious Texans. Points are more important than yards buddy.

Mr teX
10-31-2006, 02:17 PM
I think he is doing well. But he does need to show some improvement in a couple of areas.

First, he needs to develop an inside move. He gets into a bit of a rut constantly rushing outside and bull rushing. I have been impressed with his bull rushing. He did it several times against Jacksonville where he just got up underneath the tackle and drove him into Leftwich. Doesn't go down as a sack or a tip or anything measurable, but definitely affected the play.

Secondly, Mario needs to be more violent with his arms on both the pass rush and in the run game. He is engaged entirely too long with the tackle and just spends too much time "riding" the block instead of disengaging and getting to the quarterback. He needs to rip his inside arm up underneath the armpit of the tackle and lift him up and get by him. Haven't seen that as of yet.

I'd like to see the Texans employ more stunts with Mario as well. In the Jacksonville game, there were several occassions where he looped inside and was working on a center or a guard and they had a lot of trouble handling him. This is the only time I saw them run that stunt.

I'd also like to see the Texans get out of this dropping Mario into "coverage" garbage. He is not a cover guy and our defense has enough trouble conventionally. Zone blitzing is not the winning edge. The TD to Vince Young on Sunday was a blown blitz package. We brought pressure with two linebackers coming to the left side of the offense. Mario dropped into coverage to the side they blitzed to. However, the one linebacker came from the right side of the defense, thus vacating the zone. The defensive end to that side needed to drop, or better yet, Mario needed to be on that side mirroring the QB. Either way, it was a silly blitz that was totally uncalled for. Send Mario and let him get to the QB. Drop someone else!

I think he totally shut down the Jags' run game to his side when he was in. Not really mentioned much, but they ran for about seven yards going to Mario's side that day.

Overall, I would give Mario a B-/C grade with the potential to definitely be an A. I think he is going to be a premier DE in this league and will be a staple of our defense for many years to come.

Me personally, i don't think he absolutely HAS to to be a successful pass rusher. I say this b/c i look at guys like Freeney he just really has one unstopable move & he is extremely successful with that alone. Yeah he might throw in a bull rush every now & then but if you really sit & watch him, he'll do that spin move 3 out of 5 times. Same with Reggie White with his "hump" move. Just for him to develop one really good move, whatever it may be is good enough these days.

The 2nd bolded is where i think he has improved the most believe it or not. His hand work is light years ahead of where it was at the beginning of the year. I don't know just my opinion.

Texans Front Row Crew
10-31-2006, 02:22 PM
8 sacks in one season is very mediocre. I remember a guy by the name of Jevon Kearse that we drafted that had 14.5 his rookie season.

And I remember other DEs that you drafted high, that did not and are NOT doing as well as Mario Williams.

Antwan Odom '04
Travis LaBoy '04
Byron Frisch '00
Kenny Holmes '97
Bryant Mix '96
Anthony Cook '95

:stirpot:

Mr teX
10-31-2006, 02:22 PM
I'd give him a solid C- and yes, he is still dissapointing to me so far. His sacks are when DeMeco forced the QB, Weaver got robbed of a sack, and his run down of Young - not in the pocket, but when Young pulled down to run. I really haven't seen him put much heat on the QB or change any plays forcing mistakes or blowing up plays. All his sacks are the by-product of other players changing the play and he is moping up. He is hustling and he disappears for long stretches but I do see flashes of potential...but that's all I see really.

Where have you been, The Jacksonville game the dude was all in Leftwich's face for MOST of the game. The VY sack was ALL him. The reason VY didn't throw it was b/c he got in his face with his hands up to force VY to pull it down & run.

Titan "Tack" Fan
10-31-2006, 02:24 PM
And I remember other DEs that you drafted high, that did not and are NOT doing as well as Mario Williams.

Antwan Odom '04
Travis LaBoy '04
Byron Frisch '00
Kenny Holmes '97
Bryant Mix '96
Anthony Cook '95

:stirpot:

The same Travis LaBoy that stripped Carr on Sunday?

whiskeyrbl
10-31-2006, 02:24 PM
He scored two TDs on your precious Texans. Points are more important than yards buddy.

OK, Game saving tipped pass against Miami, Pounced on loose ball against Jax at our 22. Both saving points! Turnabout is fair play. VY, and RB are not taking the NFL by storm either. And that run for a TD against Wash. and us, Hell I could have run those in and I'm 42 with a bum knee. Not to impressive except to a Taks fan or ESPN homer.

Mr teX
10-31-2006, 02:26 PM
The same Travis LaBoy that stripped Carr on Sunday?

Yep, the same one that will disappear for the next 4 games after us.

TexansSeminole
10-31-2006, 02:28 PM
8 sacks in one season is very mediocre. I remember a guy by the name of Jevon Kearse that we drafted that had 14.5 his rookie season.

That is also what he was drafted for...to be a pass-rusher. Mario was drafted for more reasons than to be a pass rusher; he was drafted to be a complete defensive end, to stuff the run on one play and sack the QB on the next. I'd say Mario is pretty raw as a pass rusher, and I knew this b4 he was drafted. I didn't expect for him to have 3.5 sacks at this point.

coachdent
10-31-2006, 02:29 PM
The 2nd bolded is where i think he has improved the most believe it or not. His hand work is light years ahead of where it was at the beginning of the year. I don't know just my opinion.

I do think he has improved in this area as well. But he still does not use the strength of his arms as much as he should. He also needs to work his leverage a lot better by getting a little lower. This will help him use his strength and maximze whatever move he uses. I'm not a big fan of the spin. What I was referring to would be a stab to the outside after the second step and then ripping across the tackle's face with a hard rip with the outside arm through to the inside armpit of the tackle. The tackle is offbalance passetting for the wide outside rush and can't get the inside foot down quick enough to offer resistance to the inside rush. This is the time when the hands and arms really need to be violent.

I need to get a youtube account or something to put on a link to some game films! I have and practice cutups I have of Warren Sapp in his early days as well as Michael Strahan.

Either way, I think he is going to be a very good one.

yourfavoritetexan42
10-31-2006, 02:30 PM
we have the best pass rush this season than any other. Demeco Ryans is making every play because the d line is tying up the o line and he is free to make plays. Is that a direct reflection from Mario Williams?

I think so, I am not saying all of it...but he has some to do with it. Mario makes running backs change direction and change their mind about where they are going with the ball. I have seen countless times a running back is running and he scrapped very well and was ready to make a huge play, and hte running back just ducks inside for a small gain. Or Mario rips through inside and the running back bounces it out and another teamate gets a tackle for loss.

My point is... he is making an impact... he is making offensive lines double team him, and he is letting his other teammates get sacks. Our defense looks good this season...it really does. One more linebacker and a SS... then wow, we might have a defense that offenses will be afraid to face.

TexansSeminole
10-31-2006, 02:31 PM
You have to look at the entire situation: he is only 21, went to NC State and did not receive the premier coaching like Reggie, VY, DeMeco etc.

I don't know if I would say that...NC State has a good coaching staff, especially on the defensive side of the ball, and to be even more specific their defensive line has been good for a long time now (I would expect from the defensive line coach).

Texans Front Row Crew
10-31-2006, 02:31 PM
Yep, the same one that will disappear for the next 4 games after us.

Ditto!!

Mr teX
10-31-2006, 02:31 PM
I do think he has improved in this area as well. But he still does not use the strength of his arms as much as he should. He also needs to work his leverage a lot better by getting a little lower. This will help him use his strength and maximze whatever move he uses. I'm not a big fan of the spin. What I was referring to would be a stab to the outside after the second step and then ripping across the tackle's face with a hard rip with the outside arm through to the inside armpit of the tackle. The tackle is offbalance passetting for the wide outside rush and can't get the inside foot down quick enough to offer resistance to the inside rush. This is the time when the hands and arms really need to be violent.

I need to get a youtube account or something to put on a link to some game films! I have and practice cutups I have of Warren Sapp in his early days as well as Michael Strahan.

Either way, I think he is going to be a very good one.


Good breakdown, I believe as he gets acclimated it'll come

AggieTexanFan
10-31-2006, 03:11 PM
The VY sack showed the level of talent and ability Williams brings to the table.

When he first jumped up to break-up the screen pass to his side forcing VY to not make the throw, then for Williams to collect himself, find VY and chase him down from behind and make the sack!

It was an amazing play that was all him, no one handed him that sack, he earned it.

Also watching him run down RBs from behind that started the play running away from him, also tackling WRs 10 yards down field, this guy is a freak. I'm glad we have him and Kubes is right, he is only getting better each week.

His sack pace is starting to pick up, so I predict to see a true multiple sack game (2 or more sacks) and see him finish with double digit sacks by the seasons end.

Also it seems as Williams is getting better so to is our Defense overall, I think this goes hand-in-hand

real
10-31-2006, 03:13 PM
The VY sack showed the level of talent and ability Williams brings to the table.

When he first jumped up to break-up the screen pass to his side forcing VY to not make the throw, then for Williams to collect himself, find VY and chase him down from behind and make the sack!

It was an amazing play that was all him, no one handed him that sack, he earned it.

Also watching him run down RBs from behind that started the play running away from him, also tackling WRs 10 yards down field, this guy is a freak. I'm glad we have him and Kubes is right, he is only getting better each week.

His sack pace is starting to pick up, so I predict to see a true multiple sack game (2 or more sacks) and see him finish with double digit sacks by the seasons end.

Also it seems as Williams is getting better so to is our Defense overall, I think this goes hand-in-hand

Hey man....shut up talking that logic....

bigTEXan8
10-31-2006, 03:22 PM
mario so far...to me...has proven that he was worth the #1 overall pick. bush has yet to score a td, and young hasn't matched his skill to the nfl level yet. mario has 3.5 sacks (someone correct me if i'm wrong), and i just love his sideline-to-sideline speed. he's getting better getting of the blockers and casing havoc.

FLYmeatwad
10-31-2006, 03:38 PM
Well as I'm sure everyone here knows, RB did run back a TD to win the game for the Saints, and I say this in confidence because the next day I saw it on TV upwards of 40 times. Though to me Mario has proven himself worthy of the number 1 pick and i'm very impressed by some of the things he's shown me. The one thing I saw though, that was mentioned before, is that he always seems to be pushed to the outside, not really able to penetrate the middle as much as he did in the 'Ville game.

I really think that he will develop in to a great player, though once he starts to handle double line men on him will be when you'll know for sure.

Anyway where's the game where he has 2967527083.5 sacks? I mean you put Reggie Bush on the D line and it's a given, the QB will literally fall over before the ball is even snapped because he knows of the dominance that is sure to come his way. :rolleyes:

real
10-31-2006, 03:52 PM
The one thing I saw though, that was mentioned before, is that he always seems to be pushed to the outside, not really able to penetrate the middle as much as he did in the 'Ville game.

I don't see the same thing...i see a guy taking outside contain....seeing as how he is the last guy on the outside besides the CB most times....

FLYmeatwad
10-31-2006, 04:45 PM
You might be right, being up in NJ and not having the ticket I've only been able to watch a few games and just defensive and offensive highlights of the others, so that's basically what I'm going on. The times I've seen him in actionthough it just seems like he's trying to wrap around the O Line instead of just pushing through.

Titan "Tack" Fan
10-31-2006, 04:53 PM
Other than the sack for a 1/2 yard loss, he was reall quiet during the game Sunday. I don't think he made much of an impact. Demeco is much better. Maybe Mario should call Kyle Vanden Bosch and ask for some pointers. :hunter:

GuerillaBlack
10-31-2006, 05:11 PM
Why are the Titans fans acting like they are the Colts?

Hookem Horns
10-31-2006, 05:44 PM
Technically Mario has 3.5 sacks but wasn't one of those sacks a finger touch on Leftwich who slipped and fell down?

JDizzle
10-31-2006, 06:10 PM
Other than the sack for a 1/2 yard loss, he was reall quiet during the game Sunday. I don't think he made much of an impact. Demeco is much better. Maybe Mario should call Kyle Vanden Bosch and ask for some pointers. :hunter:

The entire defense was pretty quiet because they spent the majority of the game on the sideline. Mario recorded 4 solos and a sack, which was the only one of the day. Kind of hard to rack up sacks when you only throw the ball 15 times.

GuerillaBlack
10-31-2006, 06:13 PM
Yup, Williams stats might have been double, if Vince threw for 30 passes (no telling how many would have been completed).

thunderkyss
10-31-2006, 06:14 PM
You might be right, being up in NJ and not having the ticket I've only been able to watch a few games and just defensive and offensive highlights of the others, so that's basically what I'm going on. The times I've seen him in actionthough it just seems like he's trying to wrap around the O Line instead of just pushing through.

On the play he chased TravisWho?? down, he actually split the TE & LT who were trying to block him since the run went that way.

disaacks3
10-31-2006, 06:34 PM
Maybe Mario should call Kyle Vanden Bosch and ask for some pointers. :hunter: The next time Mario gets to line up against Wiegert and rush Carr, I'm sure he'll make that call... :rolleyes:

run-david-run
10-31-2006, 06:40 PM
He scored two TDs on your precious Texans. Points are more important than yards buddy.

Umm, 14 points is nowhere near enough to consistantly win in the NFL. If VY lead you to a whole 14 points (half of which came from a drive which started at our 24), the Titans would be winless.

run-david-run
10-31-2006, 06:49 PM
Other than the sack for a 1/2 yard loss, he was reall quiet during the game Sunday. I don't think he made much of an impact. Demeco is much better. Maybe Mario should call Kyle Vanden Bosch and ask for some pointers. :hunter:

There were only 15 pass attempts from the Titans, 20 total pass plays if you include the sack and 4 rushes by VY, its not like you guys were going to light up the sky and we knew it. As a result we concentrated on the run and completly shut down Travis Henry, the man was putting up Ron Dayne numbers. Also, like against the Eagles, you'll probably find we tried to respect VY's speed by focusing on outside contain with the DE's, neagating much of the rush. Bottom line defensivley, less then 200 yards, only 14 points allowed, half of which came on a really short field. Not a bad day at all in my opinon, and Mario was a big part of that.

thunderkyss
10-31-2006, 08:16 PM
There were only 15 pass attempts from the Titans, 20 total pass plays if you include the sack and 4 rushes by VY, its not like you guys were going to light up the sky and we knew it. As a result we concentrated on the run and completly shut down Travis Henry, the man was putting up Ron Dayne numbers. Also, like against the Eagles, you'll probably find we tried to respect VY's speed by focusing on outside contain with the DE's, neagating much of the rush. Bottom line defensivley, less then 200 yards, only 14 points allowed, half of which came on a really short field. Not a bad day at all in my opinon, and Mario was a big part of that.

Both Mario & Babin played Vince's read option perfectly. He gave the ball to Lendale when those guys were on the Tailback side of the play. Peek........ too much energy, didn't stay home, and did exactly what Vince was hoping for.

But Babin did have trouble tackling Lendale.

Erratic Assassin
10-31-2006, 09:04 PM
Mario has 3.5 sacks in 7 games...How does Mario weigh up to your expectations?

Not very well. He's played what? 11 games including pre-season. The sacks I've seen were unimpressive. Falling ungracefully onto QB is not my idea of a great play.

Did anyone see Julius Peppers play? That was impressive. Even when he didn't get a sack, you're attention was drawn to him. I saw him engage the lineman, separate himself, then move laterally to the center so fast you could hardly believe your eyes. The QB had to constantly be aware of Peppers. He's a distraction to the opponent.

I have yet to see a Mario play that amazed or impressed me. It should be obvious by now that Mario was NOT the most talented player in the draft. You're not supposed to use a #1 pick on a project, but we're stuck with him now. I just hope he turns into something special one day, but right now I'm disappointed.

Too bad he doesn't get paid to do cone drills. I hear he's the best.

Texans_Chick
10-31-2006, 09:08 PM
Not very well. He's played what? 11 games including pre-season. The sacks I've seen were unimpressive. Falling ungracefully onto QB is not my idea of a great play.

Did anyone see Julius Peppers play? That was impressive. Even when he didn't get a sack, you're attention was drawn to him. I saw him engage the lineman, separate himself, then move laterally to the center so fast you could hardly believe your eyes. The QB had to constantly be aware of Peppers. He's a distraction to the opponent.

I have yet to see a Mario play that amazed or impressed me. It should be obvious by now that Mario was NOT the most talented player in the draft. You're not supposed to use a #1 pick on a project, but we're stuck with him now. I just hope he turns into something special one day, but right now I'm disappointed.

Too bad he doesn't get paid to do cone drills. I hear he's the best.

Statistically, Mario's stats in college were very similar to Pepper's.
Despite being a true junior instead of a red shirt junior like Peppers. And having three defensive coordinators in three years.

Stats don't tell everything of course, but it is misleading to imply that he is just a workout warrior. You read the newspapers of the franchises that had the top picks in this draft and the papers were raving over the prospect of getting Williams prior to the draft.

dtran04
10-31-2006, 09:12 PM
Peppers had 2 tackles in his last game. I guess he sucked then? Stats aren't everything people.

UTVinceYoung
10-31-2006, 09:14 PM
sour grapes anyone?

dtran04
10-31-2006, 09:17 PM
No thanks. I'll take the fresh grapes I'm eating right now. YUM

dat_boy_yec
10-31-2006, 09:27 PM
He scored two TDs on your precious Texans. Points are more important than yards buddy.

Maybe when your discussing teams, but not when your discussing individual players.

Hottoddie
10-31-2006, 10:23 PM
8 sacks in one season is very mediocre. I remember a guy by the name of Jevon Kearse that we drafted that had 14.5 his rookie season.


Well, since Mario has gotten the 3.5 sacks in the last 4 games, technically, we could extrapolate the numbers from that point & he'd end up with a little over 11 sacks for the year. And of course, that's assuming that he doesn't just go wild in the second half of the season.

By the way, when can we officially call Bush a bust? :D

thunderkyss
10-31-2006, 10:41 PM
I have yet to see a Mario play that amazed or impressed me. It should be obvious by now that Mario was NOT the most talented player in the draft. You're not supposed to use a #1 pick on a project, but we're stuck with him now. I just hope he turns into something special one day, but right now I'm disappointed.

Too bad he doesn't get paid to do cone drills. I hear he's the best.

Yesterday, he split the TE/RT double team, then chased TravisWho?? down from behind, and prevented the first down. The next play, the center messes up the snap, and TravisWho?? had to fall on the ball....... now out of FieldGoal Range.

There was also another play, where he stepped in front of Vince in the flat, taking away his check down. Vince pulled the ball down, then took off to make a play with his legs..... Mario caught him, and tackled him behind the LOS.. showing that Mario is one of those faster defensive players that Vince won't be able to work his magic against.

My favorite Mario play, was where Parcells(a guy who knows a thing or two about players, especially defensive players) assigned PatrickCrayton, JasonWitten, and Flozelle Adams to keep Mario out of the lane, so they could run JJ off tackle. Mario moved that pile of CowboyCrap into that lane, taking it away from JJ(who was the NFL leading rusher in yards per game at that time). JJ had to stretch that play to the sideline. But Sanders was sitting there waiting for him. JJ had to cut it back, and try to get behind Mario, by the time he got there, CC had come down from his safety spot, and stopped JJ for a loss.

Then there was that one that he shot into the backfield, and had his hands all over DCulpepper...... he wasn't able to bring him down that time, I doubt he'll make that mistake again.

WRs, & RBs...... you're right, you don't take projects with the #1 overall.
QBs...... DEs.... LTs...... yeah, I can see taking a project with the #1 overall, especially when you are looking at a guy who will be better than Peppers.

& if you think Mario, our rookie Defensive end isn't the best Defensive end on our team, who do you think is??

blockhead83
10-31-2006, 10:56 PM
My only disappointment in Mario stems from all the comparisons made between him and Peppers leading up to the season. They had very similar production in college, and Mario was arguably modestly more impressive than Peppers in the combine so I assumed Mario would look very similar to Peppers in his style of play. He doesn't. Peppers is quicker on the field from what I've seen, and alot of his game is built on that. Now, if I stop trying to base Mario's success on how closely he mirrors Peppers, he looks way better. He uses his strength and size more often than his speed and quickness. He's improved every game. He hasn't blown through the line to single handedly sack a QB with no help whatsoever, but then again who does? Are you meaning to tell me when Peppers or Strahan sacks a QB, he's the only one to apply pressure? Get real. Most sacks in the NFL come from the guy who gets there first after the protection has broken down, and right now Mario's getting there first most often for the Texans. He is applying pressure multiple times a game, pushing his blocker into the QB, getting in the QB's face on screens, and redirecting running plays. He doesn't look like Peppers, but he looks really good to me and that's exciting regarding our defenses future.

Mario's leading his team in sacks and is disrupting his opposition, I'll give him a B+. On the other hand you have Reggie Bush, who isn't his teams leading rusher, and has a pedestrian YPC and yards per catch. Not very impressive, but it's only mediocre not bustworthy, so I'll give him a C+ Then there's the #3 pick Vince Young. He looks horrible throwing the ball. 80 yards in the air is a good day for him, he has very little accuracy downfield. He looks good running with the ball and buying time in the pocket. He also looks good leading his team and is doing just enough to help his team win. I'm not sure how well that bodes for his future, as running QB's don't tend to be successful long term, but for now I'd give him a B.

Texas
10-31-2006, 11:37 PM
I think hes doing a fine job and improving fast...Hes learning faster then I thought he would...With him and demeco coming as rookies we are gonna have a powerful team in the future.

Nza
10-31-2006, 11:40 PM
I'm not a fan of giving expectations based on where a player was chosen - just because he was 1st overall I don't think that necessarily means he needs to be dominating to meet expectations. He was only 1st overall because the Texans wanted him. Put another team there and he could have been 3rd or 5th, who knows.

With that said, given his history of not always being 100% play to play in college, my expectations were he'd be much the same in the NFL, and he is so far. In college, when he was visible, he was making some big plays, which hasn't translated quite as evidently in the NFL due to increased competition, which seems to currently result in him making sound and less obvious plays rather than the big ones when he is visible. So he's really more or less met my expectations exactly.

TexansSeminole
10-31-2006, 11:42 PM
QBs...... DEs.... LTs...... yeah, I can see taking a project with the #1 overall

I'd say most of the guys that are drafted for these positions are already assumed as a "project" because from what I can see these are the hardest positions for players to play as rookies in the NFL.

TexansSeminole
10-31-2006, 11:45 PM
My only disappointment in Mario stems from all the comparisons made between him and Peppers leading up to the season. They had very similar production in college, and Mario was arguably modestly more impressive than Peppers in the combine so I assumed Mario would look very similar to Peppers in his style of play. He doesn't.

I could have told you that, I watched alot of Mario in college. Saw him at Doak Campbell Stadium last year when NC State played FSU(@FSU). Peppers and Mario have had different styles since college. Mario was always one to get into the chest of the tackle more than trying to run around him, while Peppers ran around the tackle more than getting into their chest. Not that they couldn't do it both ways, just the style that they used was different.

TANSTAAFL
11-01-2006, 11:38 AM
The other thing to remember when trying to compare Mario to Peppers (an obvious thing to do, but not always appropriate), is that Peppers is a year older (longer exposure to really competitive football) and Peppers stepped onto a team with a decisive edge in quality defensive linemen. Applying DL pressure is usually dependent upon multiple players disrupting the OL, not jut one.

real
11-01-2006, 11:40 AM
Also Peppers has fast twitch muscles......:cool:

V Man
11-01-2006, 11:46 AM
Also Peppers has fast twitch muscles......:cool:


Oh Great! here we go again another 3 plus pages of threads on fast twitch vs slow twitch. Thanks a lot xtruroyaltyx.:)

bah007
11-01-2006, 11:53 AM
I heard that Mario didnt even play all 4 years in high school.

I dont know if that is true or even if it means anything, but if Peppers did then it would mean:

Peppers - been playing for at least 8 or 9 years prior to Draft.
Williams - been playing for maybe 5 or 6.

This might not mean anything at all but the truth in football is that the more you play, the more you learn. I would lobby that Mario is still an inexperienced football player.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
11-01-2006, 12:31 PM
Maybe Mario should call Kyle Vanden Bosch and ask for some pointers. :hunter:


Mario Williams has 1/2 a sack less than Kyle Vanden Bosch did in his first 4 years in the league. Yea, that's the guy I want Mario Williams getting pointers from. :shoot:

thunderkyss
11-01-2006, 12:46 PM
I heard that Mario didnt even play all 4 years in high school.

I dont know if that is true or even if it means anything, but if Peppers did then it would mean:

Peppers - been playing for at least 8 or 9 years prior to Draft.
Williams - been playing for maybe 5 or 6.

This might not mean anything at all but the truth in football is that the more you play, the more you learn. I would lobby that Mario is still an inexperienced football player.

I think MArio was a running back in highschool, and didn't start playing defense until College.

joedinkle
11-01-2006, 08:16 PM
Strahan's comments on Super Mario

“I love it. I love him. Who doesn’t want a defensive end to be the first overall pick in the draft? I’ve had a chance to (talk to him), I told him a little bit after he was drafted, (and) text messaged him a few times. He’s a good player, he’s big, he’s strong, he’s fast, and he’s got all the tools that are going to be needed to him to be successful. But when I watched him play after he got that first sack in the Miami game I was watching when I was in Houston, all of a sudden this wrap came off. He was able to play a little bit looser; he was able to enjoy the game a little bit more without all that pressure that everybody’s putting on him. Defensive end position, I know from experience, is not a running back. Everybody’s talking about Reggie Bush, well you know you can put a running back into any offense and he can kind of make something happen. But as a defensive end, defensive lineman is not so easy and I applaud Mario for the way that he’s handled it.”

Hervoyel
11-01-2006, 10:48 PM
8 sacks in one season is very mediocre. I remember a guy by the name of Jevon Kearse that we drafted that had 14.5 his rookie season.


Tell you what, you go research all the defensive ends drafted in the first round for the last ten years, take how many sacks they each managed in their rookie season, find the average, and then come back and tell me that 8 sacks is mediocre.

Jevon Kearse had an exceptional rookie season. He's never equaled it in the 7 years since. That doesn't make 8 sacks mediocre.

You've really got your troll on this week Tack.

GuerillaBlack
11-01-2006, 10:56 PM
Tack is just overjoyed that the Titans beat us by six points. because of thise, every player on the Texans no "suck" compared to the Titans. Amazing. It is really getting annoying. I think Tack needs to be suspended until December 10.

I would be real happy if Mario got 8 sacks or more this season. How many tackles to Kearse get?

trutexan02
11-01-2006, 11:09 PM
Why are the Titans fans acting like they are the Colts?
It's because who else is he gonna talk smack to? So far their only victories have come against us and Washington. Ours where against a team that finsihed 12-4 and 9-7 a year ago as opposed to their victims 2-14 and 10-6. You can do the math and see why this guy won't leave our boards. He is problably being crushed in his.

TheOgre
11-02-2006, 09:05 AM
sour grapes anyone?

Not really. Our defense played well against y'all. It was the 5 turnovers and the punt return that won the game for you. The combination of Carr's bad ball handling, and your aggressive defense was the difference.

Vince Young really wasn't a difference maker in this game. Apparently, he didn't have to be either though.

BigBull17
11-04-2006, 11:08 PM
I'd give him a solid C- and yes, he is still dissapointing to me so far. His sacks are when DeMeco forced the QB, Weaver got robbed of a sack, and his run down of Young - not in the pocket, but when Young pulled down to run. I really haven't seen him put much heat on the QB or change any plays forcing mistakes or blowing up plays. All his sacks are the by-product of other players changing the play and he is moping up. He is hustling and he disappears for long stretches but I do see flashes of potential...but that's all I see really.

The sack vs. VY was phenominal. He stopped the screen and reacted fast enough to prevent the scramble. That was a flash of greatness. There arent 5 DE in the leauge who make that play.:twocents: he has alot of room to improve, but that makes you very hopefull for the future

Roughnecks
11-05-2006, 01:13 AM
If he works on his moves coming off ball this offseason you could see a diffrent DE. I would like to see him talking to MS after the game maybe he could call him up and get some pointers or something because he has noone to talk to on our Dline to help.

TexansSeminole
11-05-2006, 04:27 PM
Mario continues to impress me with his growth. Today he was really pressuring the QB. He made his presence known to the QB and had Eli out of sync.

Bamaborn-Texasbred
11-05-2006, 04:58 PM
Mario may have 10 sacks before this season is over. I like him more every time I see him.:mario: :fireball: :stooges:

The three stooges are VY, RB, and Bud Adams.

Vinny
11-05-2006, 05:06 PM
The sack vs. VY was phenominal. He stopped the screen and reacted fast enough to prevent the scramble. That was a flash of greatness. There arent 5 DE in the leauge who make that play.:twocents: he has alot of room to improve, but that makes you very hopefull for the futureIt was a nice play, but the pocket broke down because of other players and Young took off and it was a one yard loss. Mario was in position because he was being blocked well. It was a nice play, but I wouldn't call it extraordinary or game changing. We saw more of of an impact type play today in the Giant game. Today gives me more hope than Mario finishing other guys aggressive play.

Cgold
11-05-2006, 05:06 PM
Mario was pretty impressive today.. my Bush pouting, gets better every week..
i give mario props

thunderkyss
11-05-2006, 10:03 PM
It was a nice play, but the pocket broke down because of other players and Young took off and it was a one yard loss. Mario was in position because he was being blocked well. It was a nice play, but I wouldn't call it extraordinary or game changing. We saw more of of an impact type play today in the Giant game. Today gives me more hope than Mario finishing other guys aggressive play.

ARe we talking about the same play?? Mario wasn't blocked at all. He sniffed the screen, went straight upfield to cut it off.... Vince pulled the ball down, and thought he could beat Mario to the corner, since Mario was so far up field.

But Mario ran him down before he could get to the LOS. That was an amazing play, and as stated before, there may not be 5 DEs in this league that could make that play, from start to finish. Sniffing the screen, cutting it off, then catching VinceYoung in the backfield.

Jason Taylor & Peppers maybe, I can't think of anyone else who could've made that play.

That play was all Mario.