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the wonger need food
10-30-2006, 11:20 AM
So Carr and those 2 OT's choked away any chance we had of winning the game yesterday, but I took a lot of positives away. Surprisingly, this is the best I've ever felt about a loss...

1st... The team didn't quit. Any other year under Capers and it's a 20-point loss.

2nd... This rookie class is very good. Maybe the best in the league. We potentially have 2 Pro Bowl players in their rookie season and several more in the future. Every rookie (excluding Spencer) made a significant contribution yesterday.

3rd... Sage Rosenfels may be the future QB for this team. I know a lot of people don't want to hear this but the guy is calm and poised and the offense responded to this yesterday. He also has great touch on the ball and seems to read defenses well. Carr may be a better athlete, but Rosenfels proved again yesterday that he is a better NFL QB. He reminds me a lot of Peyton Manning for some reason.

4th... We obviously had more talent than Tennessee. Take away the turnovers and we dominate this game.


If we can hold up the pass rush at all, I really believe that we can surprise the Giants this week. And I can seriously see us playing for .500 when Buffalo comes to town in a few weeks. Seriously...

Kaiser Toro
10-30-2006, 11:28 AM
I agree. There has been no loss that has given me as much as optimism as this one. We are at a nexus point and very much look forward to our future.

Double Barrel
10-30-2006, 11:34 AM
Other positives:

Kubiak going for it on 4th down in the first qtr. That was great to see after four years of 'duh'.

Benching David Carr. He's never felt the pressure of competition, and he's never faced the heat of a head coach that isn't scared to bench him.

Both of these decisions sends messages to our team on so many levels. Things are going to be alright. We just have to give Kubiak some time to put his team together.

jerek
10-30-2006, 11:40 AM
So Carr and those 2 OT's choked away any chance we had of winning the game yesterday, but I took a lot of positives away. Surprisingly, this is the best I've ever felt about a loss...

1st... The team didn't quit. Any other year under Capers and it's a 20-point loss.

2nd... This rookie class is very good. Maybe the best in the league. We potentially have 2 Pro Bowl players in their rookie season and several more in the future. Every rookie (excluding Spencer) made a significant contribution yesterday.

3rd... Sage Rosenfels may be the future QB for this team. I know a lot of people don't want to hear this but the guy is calm and poised and the offense responded to this yesterday. He also has great touch on the ball and seems to read defenses well. Carr may be a better athlete, but Rosenfels proved again yesterday that he is a better NFL QB. He reminds me a lot of Peyton Manning for some reason.

4th... We obviously had more talent than Tennessee. Take away the turnovers and we dominate this game.


If we can hold up the pass rush at all, I really believe that we can surprise the Giants this week. And I can seriously see us playing for .500 when Buffalo comes to town in a few weeks. Seriously...

Though I think it's premature and probably wrong to call Sage the future, I agree with the rest of your post. It was anyone's ballgame until that fumble to end the half. Carr played badly and he knows it. I expect him to respond.

Lucky
10-30-2006, 12:09 PM
...Take away the turnovers and......the penalties. And the blown assignments on defense. And the atrocious special teams play. Then again, if the Texans take care of all those things they'd win almost every game.

The Texans have played like crap in 5 games and have lost all 5. I don't think Karl Rove or James Carville could spin anything positive out of that.

alphajoker
10-30-2006, 12:24 PM
I'm glad to see a post that has some good karma to it. Yes, the Texans lost a game they should have won but when you turnover the ball 5 times, what do you expect? Anywho, I have been very pleased with our rookie performances and I can only hope that this team will continue to improve as it has been in the past two games. The defense is allowing fewer yards per game and even though this loss could have gotten out of hand, the offense stayed solid and went down fighting. I'm confident we'll finish the second half of the season strong and this team will be a team on the rise in 2007!.:fans:

Mr teX
10-30-2006, 12:56 PM
I agree mostly b/c of the apparent "geling" of our defense. Demeco is being Demeco the secondary has played alot better, run defense is a WHOLE lot better & than it was in the first 2-3 games & Mario appears to be getting used to playing on the NFL level now. Did you guys see the replay of how he came off the edge on I think it was the VY sack? he's learning to use his hands better to get off the block.

Hervoyel
10-30-2006, 01:11 PM
Lucky I know there's some spin in Wongers post but seriously, I saw a team that looked like it had some talent on it. I saw mistakes all over the place and those bothered me but I also saw them look pretty good here and there.

I've said it before but I'll say it again here, the Texans are starting to look like those bad Oiler teams from the mid to late 80's which is actually an improvement over what I was afraid they'd look like in the first half of the season. I was afraid they'd be more like the early 80's Oilers. the difference is subtle but important.

In the early 80's you had Oiler teams that completely lacked the talent to compete with almost anyone. They were a lot like the Texans in 2002-2003 though probably not quite that bad.

Later on the Oilers had started to assemble the players but you had questionable coaching, inexperience, and a few gaping holes/missing pieces holding them back. they'd come out and stomp someone but then lose to a lesser opponent the next week. they were entirely inconsistent and very frustrating to watch. That's what I see in the Texans right now.

I personally think it means we're a little further along in the process of improving than I thought after last season.

I'm not happy with the loss but I think that when we look back at 2006 we're going to point to this week and say that something about the Texans changed when Carr got benched and the team kept playing despite being down 21-3.

BigDTexansFan
10-30-2006, 01:19 PM
...the penalties. And the blown assignments on defense. And the atrocious special teams play. Then again, if the Texans take care of all those things they'd win almost every game.

The Texans have played like crap in 5 games and have lost all 5. I don't think Karl Rove or James Carville could spin anything positive out of that.


Lucky,

You must have never seen Carville spinning for Billy C. He could hit you with your car and make you to blame for whole thing...LOL I feel as though we have to get mental mistakes in all 3 phases GONE, IF we wish to be winners week in and week out. Game was ours to lose and boy did we do a bang up job of it...am glad to see Mario smack VY so Johnny Mac Cheese would whimper

Reddevil63
10-30-2006, 01:29 PM
.

3rd... Sage Rosenfels may be the future QB for this team. I know a lot of people don't want to hear this but the guy is calm and poised and the offense responded to this yesterday. He also has great touch on the ball and seems to read defenses well. Carr may be a better athlete, but Rosenfels proved again yesterday that he is a better NFL QB. He reminds me a lot of Peyton Manning for some reason.



I wouldnt go that far just yet, lets see how Carr responds after getting benched and then we should know in a couple of weeks. Even I, the biggest Carr supporter I know, am willing to accept the fact that Sage looked really good and if Carr doesnt step up to the plate after this, he probably isnt going to make it in Houston and Sage would be this teams best option.

the wonger need food
10-30-2006, 01:38 PM
...the penalties. And the blown assignments on defense. And the atrocious special teams play. Then again, if the Texans take care of all those things they'd win almost every game.

The Texans have played like crap in 5 games and have lost all 5. I don't think Karl Rove or James Carville could spin anything positive out of that.


In every other game that they've lost they were dominated. The Texans dominated this game in almost every measurable category and were the more talented team on the field in my opinion.

The loss sux and all, but if Kubiak can get 2 more draft classes under his belt similar to this one, we're going to have a very good football team. Is there a better draft class in the NFL this year?


RB Wali Lundy (6th round) - 266 Yards, 4.9 Per Carry, 1 TD
v.
RB The Decoy (2nd overall) 212 Yards, 3.0 Per Carry, 0 TD


TE Owen Daniels (4th round) 18 Receptions, 183 Yards, 5 TD's
v.
TE Vernon Davis (6th overall) 5 Receptions, 37 Yards, 1 TD
TE Marcedes Lewis (28th overall) 2 Receptions, 40 Yards, 0 TD
TE Anthony Fasano (2nd round) 8 Receptions, 66 Yards, 0 TD


LB DeMeco Ryans (2nd round) 63 Tackles, 1.5 Sacks
v.
AJ Hawk (5th overall) 52 Tackles, 3.5 Sacks
Bobo Carpenter (18th overall) 0 Anything

nunusguy
10-30-2006, 01:39 PM
I wouldnt go that far just yet, lets see how Carr responds after getting benched and then we should know in a couple of weeks. Even I, the biggest Carr supporter I know, am willing to accept the fact that Sage looked really good and if Carr doesnt step up to the plate after this, he probably isnt going to make it in Houston and Sage would be this teams best option.
I think its possible that Carr could turn around and have a good, maybe even a strong game against the Giants next week. I'm not saying I'd bet on it, but I
think it could happen.
But however talented he may be and therefor capable of a good showing any Sunday, he's also capable any Sunday of having horrendous mental lapses which lose games for you. His talent is not at issue, but his dpendability is.
On the positive, the rookie class no doubt looks better and better every Sunday.

Texans_Chick
10-30-2006, 01:50 PM
Later on the Oilers had started to assemble the players but you had questionable coaching, inexperience, and a few gaping holes/missing pieces holding them back. they'd come out and stomp someone but then lose to a lesser opponent the next week. they were entirely inconsistent and very frustrating to watch. That's what I see in the Texans right now.

I personally think it means we're a little further along in the process of improving than I thought after last season.

I'm not happy with the loss but I think that when we look back at 2006 we're going to point to this week and say that something about the Texans changed when Carr got benched and the team kept playing despite being down 21-3.

This is a great post.

They kept playing despite all the stupidity. Things were going so poorly at one point in the game, it wouldn't have surprised me too much if a blimp came crashing down on the Texans bench.

Worst special teams performance of the season.

I liked seeing the long offensive drives.

At this point of the season, all parts of the team have shown some good, but not at the same time. It does not operationally define "hapless" like last season.

It might be too much to ask for the "clicking" sound to happen this season, but you can see how it could down the road with some pieces and parts.

the wonger need food
10-30-2006, 01:54 PM
The important thing about benching Carr is that it sends a message. It will probably divide the locker room, but that may be Kubiak's goal. Get the players mad at him and maybe they will use that to rally around each other.

phan1
10-30-2006, 01:55 PM
Well, I think it's OK to say that we're the better team. Minus the turnovers, we should have won that game. But I seriously thought we already were better and we should win coming into Sunday.

I guess the good news is that at least we are not worse than I think we are... And that's not really good news... But I guess you take what you can get when you're a Texans fan. :crying:

Lucky
10-30-2006, 02:03 PM
Lucky I know there's some spin in Wongers post but seriously, I saw a team that looked like it had some talent on it. I saw mistakes all over the place and those bothered me but I also saw them look pretty good here and there.
The Texans were playing one of the worst teams in the league. Of course there will be moments where the team showed something positive. But, a good team would have blown the Texans out.

This game may have reminded you of an Oiler game, but I thought I was looking at the '02 Steelers-Texans game where the Texans pulled off one of the most bizarre upsets in history. The Titans punted the ball 8 times. How many times did the Titans QB miss open receivers? Let's not forget the stupid penalties they had, as well. Yet, the Titans were never really in danger of losing the game. How am I supposed to get excited by that?

Yes, the rookies played well. But, the Titans were playing players just as young. Does anyone think the rookies will fare as well against a veteran team like the Giants? I didn't see a team turning a corner. I saw a team wasting an opportunity.

CowboysTexansFan
10-30-2006, 02:04 PM
Kubiak sent a message to DC and all the players that all of them will be held accountable for their performance. I think the assistant coaches will also get that message.

Before yesterday, I was somewhat concerned that Kubiak might be like Capers in that he would not be willing to fire underperforming assistant coaches who needed to be replaced. But now, Kubiak definitely strikes me as someone who will make whatever personnel changes are necessary to win.

So ... I think the assistant coaches need to make sure the defense doesn't give up any more 500+ yard games and the special teams don't have a repeat of yesterday's horrific performance.

real
10-30-2006, 02:05 PM
I didn't see a team turning a corner. I saw a team wasting an opportunity.

I agree...

I'm not really sure how this game as a whole was a positive for our franchise...

Dime
10-30-2006, 02:09 PM
So Carr and those 2 OT's choked away any chance we had of winning the game yesterday, but I took a lot of positives away. Surprisingly, this is the best I've ever felt about a loss...

1st... The team didn't quit. Any other year under Capers and it's a 20-point loss.

2nd... This rookie class is very good. Maybe the best in the league. We potentially have 2 Pro Bowl players in their rookie season and several more in the future. Every rookie (excluding Spencer) made a significant contribution yesterday.

3rd... Sage Rosenfels may be the future QB for this team. I know a lot of people don't want to hear this but the guy is calm and poised and the offense responded to this yesterday. He also has great touch on the ball and seems to read defenses well. Carr may be a better athlete, but Rosenfels proved again yesterday that he is a better NFL QB. He reminds me a lot of Peyton Manning for some reason.

4th... We obviously had more talent than Tennessee. Take away the turnovers and we dominate this game.


If we can hold up the pass rush at all, I really believe that we can surprise the Giants this week. And I can seriously see us playing for .500 when Buffalo comes to town in a few weeks. Seriously...



On number 2.. I agree. IF Mario can continue to improve (not close to probowl yet, but keeps getting better), with Ryans, and Owen Daniels, and EVEN Spencer in later years if he can recover back to how he was playing.. We might be able to pull out more then 2 for the Pro-Bowl (if Mario can keep working hard, I know.. dreaming this year, but probably next few years)

The Pencil Neck
10-30-2006, 02:11 PM
I agree...

I'm not really sure how this game as a whole was a positive for our franchise...

It all depends on if the team learns something from this loss and uses that in upcoming games.

real
10-30-2006, 02:13 PM
It all depends on if the team learns something from this loss and uses that in upcoming games.

Thats easier said than done...

Texans_Chick
10-30-2006, 02:33 PM
I agree...

I'm not really sure how this game as a whole was a positive for our franchise...

You never know how things work out. Sometimes bad stuff just leads to more bad stuff. And sometimes bad stuff leads to learning from bad stuff.

Where I'm at with this stuff is what I said before the Titans game:

Personally, I think anyone who says that they know what who is going to do to whom in this game is full of it.

The Titans and Texans are both inconsistent, flawed teams. Both are trying to learn what they are doing more and more each week.

Generally speaking a match up between two inconsistent flawed teams will result in the home team winning more often than not.

In the JAX game, the Texans showed that they could play a clean game at home against a good opponent.

We haven't seen much great play on the road, and it will be interesting to see what shape the Texans are in when they get done with this roady.

tsip
10-30-2006, 02:39 PM
I think its possible that Carr could turn around and have a good, maybe even a strong game against the Giants next week. I'm not saying I'd bet on it, but I
think it could happen.
But however talented he may be and therefor capable of a good showing any Sunday, he's also capable any Sunday of having horrendous mental lapses which lose games for you. His talent is not at issue, but his dependability is.
On the positive, the rookie class no doubt looks better and better every Sunday.

IMO, you make a good point about 'which' Carr will show up to play on a given game day. JMO, but I believe 2 things have hurt/hindered Carr's development as a franchise QB-- 1) coddling since day one and 2) excuses to justify poor play.

Without question, 'everything' has not been 'perfect' around Carr, including the coaching and the 'cast' around him but I think David has contributed to his own 'under achieving.' David does not have the 'heart and soul' and 'determination to win' of a Peyton Manning or Tom Brady, both of whom win despite any obstacles around them (new linemen, new RBs, new WRs, new coaches,etc). These types of players have an 'attitude' that their play can 'transcend' any 'negatives' they face and are absolutely convinced they can lead their teams to victory. This feeling/concept is called 'IT.' No, they don't win ALL the time but...

Unlike Capers, Kubiak is not 'babying' Carr, but I'm wondering if Gary is starting to realize that it's Carr that needs to 'push' himself to succeed and he's not doing that. It's easy to say Carr came from an environment at FS where he just had to 'show up' to be successful, as so much was in place around him, and he had the tools to make that scenario work...and that's probably true.

Effective decision making is a major requirement for a QB in the NFL, but that is particularly true in Kubiak's system--why? ...more reads, more options,less dictation of what to do, etc. Carr's throw to AJ with 4 Titans around him demonstrates-IMO- David's tendency to take the easy way out--throw to AJ or 'dump down' instead of 'reading' the defense. Several posters have questioned, 'what happened to our TEs, the past few weeks--Sage comes in and Owen has his biggest day.

Kubiak knows what he wants from his offense, and he knows what kind of QB play he needs to get those 'wants.' Can Carr be that QB? Finally, after 4+ years, I believe we are fixing to find out. Gary has been working one on one with Carr for 'months,' and has been patient in waiting to see the 'fruits' of that work translate into results on the field--sometime it does, sometimes it doesn't.

However, when Carr's play on the field continues to 'mirror' the same problems over and over again--like yesterday (turnovers/bad reads,etc.)--something has to 'give.'...Will benching Carr suddenly turn the :lightbulb: on or will it be another:brickwall for Carr against the Giants?:dontknowa :whoohoo:

The Pencil Neck
10-30-2006, 02:39 PM
Thats easier said than done...

I didn't say it wasn't and that's why I used the word "depends". :)

Porky
10-30-2006, 03:02 PM
I for one, am tired of trying to find the silver lining in every dark cloud. I did that for four years. I don't find a damn thing worth crowing about after a loss. It's time for this team to grow up. I am tired of baby steps, and learning from losses, and every other excuse. To me, it's win, or nothing else matters. Al Davis might be a very sick, senile, old man. But, he coined the phrase "just win, baby". That's where I am at. Five years in, I still read posters coughing up the same tired excuses that I saw 2,3,4 years ago. Enough!

As far as Herv's comment that the team didn't give up. That's because the anchor was pulled from the game. That's my new name for Carr. The Anchorman. He holds everyone else back. As soon as the anchor was reeled to the sidelines, you saw the offense as it is designed. We will never win with the anchorman.

Meloy
10-30-2006, 03:10 PM
The Texans were playing one of the worst teams in the league. Of course there will be moments where the team showed something positive. But, a good team would have blown the Texans out.

This game may have reminded you of an Oiler game, but I thought I was looking at the '02 Steelers-Texans game where the Texans pulled off one of the most bizarre upsets in history. The Titans punted the ball 8 times. How many times did the Titans QB miss open receivers? Let's not forget the stupid penalties they had, as well. Yet, the Titans were never really in danger of losing the game. How am I supposed to get excited by that?

Yes, the rookies played well. But, the Titans were playing players just as young. Does anyone think the rookies will fare as well against a veteran team like the Giants? I didn't see a team turning a corner. I saw a team wasting an opportunity. I agree. This was the most frustrating game for me to watch so far. Tenn definitely is not a better team. I can handle AJ missing a pass that leads to interception, but the ridiculous penalties? I overlooked one by O lineman right after Sage took over, in fact I think it was the first play (new QB cadence), but our OTs looked ridiculous. Plays imo broke down on defense repeatedly. They looked lost on the play that VY carried into the end zone. Duh, has anyone ever seen him do that before? The only reason we got close was due to the inepitude of the Titans. On receptions of punts, our special team guys looked as if they were standing around. I kept saying,"hit somebody for Pete's sake". Yes, Wali was a bright spot, but against Tenn wasn't that what we expected? I am really depressed.

Kaiser Toro
10-30-2006, 03:14 PM
Yes, Wali was a bright spot, but against Tenn wasn't that what we expected?

Wali was the 3rd back to go over the century mark against the Titans this year. The other two were Michael Turner and Julius Jones. Out of all of the teams the Titans played, you would think that the Texans would be the least expected to have a runner go over 100 yards.

profan
10-30-2006, 03:21 PM
I agree. This was the most frustrating game for me to watch so far. Tenn definitely is not a better team. I can handle AJ missing a pass that leads to interception, but the ridiculous penalties? I overlooked one by O lineman right after Sage took over, in fact I think it was the first play (new QB cadence), but our OTs looked ridiculous. Plays imo broke down on defense repeatedly. They looked lost on the play that VY carried into the end zone. Duh, has anyone ever seen him do that before? The only reason we got close was due to the inepitude of the Titans. On receptions of punts, our special team guys looked as if they were standing around. I kept saying,"hit somebody for Pete's sake". Yes, Wali was a bright spot, but against Tenn wasn't that what we expected? I am really depressed.

Tennesse is not a better team? They made the plays and beat us. They beat the skins on the road. Same skins that tourched us at home. They lost by 1 to the colts. Really, after they benched collins, tennesse has been a better team than the texans. The texans have the potential to be a better team, but at this point in time, they are not imo the better team.

Blu
10-30-2006, 03:29 PM
Lots of Positives... Seriously

Like getting Texan gear at 50% off at Academy at the end of the season.
:redtowel:
Got to stay positive! :whip:

JDizzle
10-30-2006, 03:36 PM
5 years in and we are talking about moral victories against the Titans? lol

The Pencil Neck
10-30-2006, 04:28 PM
Tennesse is not a better team? They made the plays and beat us. They beat the skins on the road. Same skins that tourched us at home. They lost by 1 to the colts. Really, after they benched collins, tennesse has been a better team than the texans. The texans have the potential to be a better team, but at this point in time, they are not imo the better team.

I agree.

Right now, the Titans are the better team and they remain the better team until we can beat them consistently.

run-david-run
10-30-2006, 04:47 PM
I agree...

I'm not really sure how this game as a whole was a positive for our franchise...

However, how we respond from this game can dictate the rest of the season. This whole game can be summed up in one play. Sage drops back to pass, good protection, throws an out to AJ who had twisted Pac Man around, ball bounces off his shoulder padd and is picked off. Bascially, we did a lot of things right, but our mistakes were just too much to overcome, However, how did AJ respond? Three great catches, two on third down, and the other for a TD. If the whole team gets madd and determined to stop this from happening again and plays with emotion and anger, this could be a very important turning point. Your reactions to failure are far more telling then reactions to triumph, this weekend should tell us a lot about our team.

phan1
10-30-2006, 05:03 PM
It's strange how there's always something wrong with this team: We can't find a RB. Hey, we've finally found a RB!... But now we have a QB controversy. Our Oline can really pass protect, but we can't run the football worth a darn. Oh hey, looks like we found a running game! Oh man, but we forgot how to pass protect. AJ is a BEAST! Oh man, another dropped ball? A dropped ball for an INT? RIDICULOUS! Man, Spencer is going to be a great LT for us. Awww man, he's out for the season now.

Dammit, there's always SOMTHING wrong with this team!!!

real
10-30-2006, 05:14 PM
However, how we respond from this game can dictate the rest of the season. This whole game can be summed up in one play. Sage drops back to pass, good protection, throws an out to AJ who had twisted Pac Man around, ball bounces off his shoulder padd and is picked off. Bascially, we did a lot of things right, but our mistakes were just too much to overcome, However, how did AJ respond? Three great catches, two on third down, and the other for a TD. If the whole team gets madd and determined to stop this from happening again and plays with emotion and anger, this could be a very important turning point. Your reactions to failure are far more telling then reactions to triumph, this weekend should tell us a lot about our team.

Im not saying that there weren't positives within the game...But looking at it as a whole it's kind of depressing...

Kaiser Toro
10-30-2006, 05:15 PM
It's strange how there's always something wrong with this team: We can't find a RB. Hey, we've finally found a RB!... But now we have a QB controversy. Our Oline can really pass protect, but we can't run the football worth a darn. Oh hey, looks like we found a running game! Oh man, but we forgot how to pass protect. AJ is a BEAST! Oh man, another dropped ball? A dropped ball for an INT? RIDICULOUS! Man, Spencer is going to be a great LT for us. Awww man, he's out for the season now.

Dammit, there's always SOMTHING wrong with this team!!!

Which gets you back to the one constant of this franchise - David Carr.

michaelm
11-01-2006, 03:18 AM
The only positive I have for this game, this season, and this franchises history is that just as the Rockets did back in '94-'05, this franchise will win one for us, and to those of us who stuck through these hard times, it will be sweeter than any victory any bandwagoner will ever know...


...and that is why I will always stick.

aj.
11-01-2006, 07:29 AM
Here is proof that Carr is on the right track:

http://www.newzcentral.com/viewfinder/berrett/berrett%20art%20folder/ELWAY.jpg

thunderkyss
11-01-2006, 08:40 AM
They looked lost on the play that VY carried into the end zone. Duh, has anyone ever seen him do that before?

Actually, Vince tried to run that play several times. on Most occassions, he handed the ball to the Tailback, because the DE did exactly what he was supposed to do..... stay home.

on the two plays where Vince carried the ball, both times it was Peek who bit on the handoff.

The only reason we got close was due to the inepitude of the Titans.

Yes, Wali was a bright spot, but against Tenn wasn't that what we expected? I am really depressed.

Wali looked good, but yes, I expected to run well against Tennessee.... they seemed pretty good at stopping RonDayne, looked like they prepared for him, but not Lundy.

I did not expect Owen Daniels to have 99 recieving yards. While I did expect to see 300 yards of passing(299) I fully expected David to get all of it.

& yes, it is the Titans, but we held the Titans & Jags well below their season avg offense..... both of them usually get over 250 ypg, and we held them to less than 200. We were very strong against the run in both games.... I know they ended up getting over 100 yards rushing, but they never got into any kind of rhythm, and Tennesse definitely should have with their lead, if they were playing to protect the lead like they said they were.

& Jacksonville..... we played that same team on Defense, and did much better than the vaunted Eagles defense.... not saying we are better that our offense is better than the Eagles offense, just saying those hurt players on defense didn't really stop them from shutting down the Eagles.

& you can say what you want, but Leftwich still claims nothing is wrong with his ankle.

real
11-01-2006, 08:56 AM
& yes, it is the Titans, but we held the Titans & Jags well below their season avg offense..... both of them usually get over 250 ypg, and we held them to less than 200.

Ummm....I didn't watch the Tenn. game but from what I understand we turned the ball over to them on their side of the 50 atleast twice....and had a punt and fumble returned for touchdowns....

Me thinks if we don't turn the ball over like that they easily get their season avg....

jmlockett
11-01-2006, 08:58 AM
Ok I have read and reread this board and I still say that Kubiak is trying to get DC's attention. This is and will be the last straw with the coach in my opinion. I hope for all concern that David is able to get his act together, from the few times I have spoke with him he is really a nice guy. However that isnt enough to win a football game. There were a lot of positives in this game against the Titans. The one I am most proud of is we didn't give up.

thunderkyss
11-01-2006, 09:02 AM
It's strange how there's always something wrong with this team: We can't find a RB. Hey, we've finally found a RB!... But now we have a QB controversy.

We don't have anymore of a QB controversy now than we had before the game. David has got booed in every home game I can think of...

But Kubiak has made it clear that David is the QB...... end of controversy.

I wouldn't be surprised if that boo-ing upsets Kubiak so much that he becomes more and more stubborn about starting David....

I know I would.

Meloy
11-01-2006, 09:03 AM
Tennesse is not a better team? They made the plays and beat us. They beat the skins on the road. Same skins that tourched us at home. They lost by 1 to the colts. Really, after they benched collins, tennesse has been a better team than the texans. The texans have the potential to be a better team, but at this point in time, they are not imo the better team.
We agree to disagree. I think the Texans beat themselves. This was a game we should have won and could have won.

thunderkyss
11-01-2006, 09:11 AM
Ummm....I didn't watch the Tenn. game but from what I understand we turned the ball over to them on their side of the 50 atleast twice....and had a punt and fumble returned for touchdowns....

Me thinks if we don't turn the ball over like that they easily get their season avg....

nah.... we were more likely to force punts & more 3 & outs.

real
11-01-2006, 09:15 AM
We don't have anymore of a QB controversy now than we had before the game. David has got booed in every home game I can think of....

There is definitely more pressure on Carr....If you don't think Carr is feeling the heat now more than ever I don't know what to tell ya'....If you were in Carr's position wouldn't you feel like all eyes were on you ? True, Carr has always been under scrutiny, but now the Carr haters can taste blood....



But Kubiak has made it clear that David is the QB...... end of controversy.
I wouldn't be surprised if that boo-ing upsets Kubiak so much that he becomes more and more stubborn about starting David....
I know I would.

Im not sure what guys expects Kubes to do at this point...Yes, he said Carr is the QB....but do you think that if Carr keeps stinkin it up, he's going to stick with him??? What is he supposed to say ??? Of course he believes in David, but I don't think he would jepordize his own career just to try and prove a point....

Look at the tuna in Dallas....Bledsoe was his guy....he repeated over and over again that Bledsoe was the key to them getting to the ship...But when push came to shove he had to make a decision....

which brings me back to my original point....The heat is on Carr....

The coach has said that he believes in him...The coach has said that Carr is his guy....If Carr fails, not only is he a dissapointment to the fans but he is a dissapointment to his coaches, the owner, and his teamates...A lot of people are depending on him and last week he let them down...If Carr isn't feeling the pressure someone better check his pulse.....

real
11-01-2006, 09:16 AM
nah.... we were more likely to force punts & more 3 & outs.

maybe...maybe not....

But the point is that they didn't have as many possesions and field to work with....I'm not saying our defense didn't play well....from what I understand they did....

thunderkyss
11-01-2006, 09:41 AM
There is definitely more pressure on Carr....If you don't think Carr is feeling the heat now more than ever I don't know what to tell ya'....If you were in Carr's position wouldn't you feel like all eyes were on you ? True, Carr has always been under scrutiny, but now the Carr haters can taste blood....

As it's been said before, it depends on how Carr takes this. If he believes that Kubiak is a man of his word, and David truly appreciates why CoackK pulled him from the game, then he has nothing to worry about.

If he does what Kubiak tells him to do, he should be fine.

Im not sure what guys expects Kubes to do at this point...Yes, he said Carr is the QB....but do you think that if Carr keeps stinkin it up, he's going to stick with him??? What is he supposed to say ??? Of course he believes in David, but I don't think he would jepordize his own career just to try and prove a point....

Carr hasn't been stinking anything up. Not in this last game, and not in the games prior to Tennessee. He's made mistakes, but not one person who says they follow this team should expect him not to make mistakes.

The INT to Anthony Henry & the one to Hope were the only things I did not expect to see from David Carr... those upset me more than the fumbles, because I knew he had a 59 fumbles in 60 starts. I'd seen him improve, and not stare down recievers, I was even giving him props for fixing that before the Dallas game, and what does he do?? Then against Tennessee..... he didn't see the Corner/Safety... well he just didn't see that side of the field, when he threw the ball, AJ had perfect position on the corner trailing him, and it probably looked just like it did in practice. If David didn't put so much air under it, it could've got to AJ before hope got to it.... who knows.


Look at the tuna in Dallas....Bledsoe was his guy....he repeated over and over again that Bledsoe was the key to them getting to the ship...But when push came to shove he had to make a decision....

which brings me back to my original point....The heat is on Carr....

The coach has said that he believes in him...The coach has said that Carr is his guy....If Carr fails, not only is he a dissapointment to the fans but he is a dissapointment to his coaches, the owner, and his teamates...A lot of people are depending on him and last week he let them down...If Carr isn't feeling the pressure someone better check his pulse.....

Difference here is that for some reason Parcells & JJ were thinking SuperBowl when this season started. The pressure is on them to win.

McNair & Kubiak need to be locked up if their goal was to have a winning season in '06. If winning was the Goal, Sage would've had a chance to "win" the starting job in August.

real
11-01-2006, 09:59 AM
As it's been said before, it depends on how Carr takes this. If he believes that Kubiak is a man of his word, and David truly appreciates why CoackK pulled him from the game, then he has nothing to worry about.

C'mon now Kyss....This is a man...a human....a person.....

When that man goes home at night or when he has alone time, he has to think about the expectations that people have of him....I know he feels the pressure....Nothing to worry about ?? Carr has looked great at times this season...he's also at times looked piss poor...What's the exception and whats the rule ??? Peyton Manning doesn't feel pressure from his back-up....Tom Brady doesn't feel pressure from his back-up....Guys that you EXPECT/"know" they are going to get it done don't feel pressure from a backup.....


Carr hasn't been stinking anything up. Not in this last game, and not in the games prior to Tennessee.

The INT to Anthony Henry & the one to Hope were the only things I did not expect to see from David Carr...

Say what??

Your words not mine...

Carr hasn't looked totally awful this season but he has had some stinkers...and he hasn't really totally wowed anyone....and IMO, last game was one of them....He got benched...obviously the coach felt he was playing bad...

Difference here is that for some reason Parcells & JJ were thinking SuperBowl when this season started. The pressure is on them to win.
McNair & Kubiak need to be locked up if their goal was to have a winning season in '06. If winning was the Goal, Sage would've had a chance to "win" the starting job in August.

Their motives may be different, but the results in the end will be the same....But you are right...If we were in the playoff hunt Carr would have been benched...just like Bledsoe....But since we are in learning/rebuilding mode he has a longer leash....But in the end if you play bad enough long enough NO coach is going to stick with you come hell or high water...thats just ridiulous...I don't know how long of a leash Carr has, but if Carr is still a question going into next season... Carr will be on really thin ice...paper thin....amoeba thin....atom thin.....

Double Barrel
11-01-2006, 12:13 PM
Here is proof that Carr is on the right track:

http://www.newzcentral.com/viewfinder/berrett/berrett%20art%20folder/ELWAY.jpg

Your sarcasm is thick and sweet, dripping with sticky resonance. Slap some flapjacks beneath it and you've got a hearty breakfast!

;) at least, I hope you were being sarcastic

thunderkyss
11-01-2006, 02:08 PM
C'mon now Kyss....This is a man...a human....a person.....

When that man goes home at night or when he has alone time, he has to think about the expectations that people have of him....I know he feels the pressure....Nothing to worry about ?? Carr has looked great at times this season...he's also at times looked piss poor...What's the exception and whats the rule ??? Peyton Manning doesn't feel pressure from his back-up....Tom Brady doesn't feel pressure from his back-up....Guys that you EXPECT/"know" they are going to get it done don't feel pressure from a backup.....

They might not feel pressure from their backups, but they feel pressure. QBs in the NFL have to be able to deal with pressure...... period. Doesn't matter where it comes from.... that's all I'm saying. He knows Kubiak(or should know) Kubiak wants him to succeed, and right now, that's the only guy he needs to please.

Say what??

Your words not mine...

Carr hasn't looked totally awful this season but he has had some stinkers...and he hasn't really totally wowed anyone....and IMO, last game was one of them....He got benched...obviously the coach felt he was playing bad...

By not stinking up, I mean he did the same thing Sunday that he had done in four of the previous six games. Everybody thought he was great then, but now he's stinking it up??

Since the rest of the team seems to be playing much better than they have in our first three games, Carr's performance looks worse than it did in our first three games. But he's been consistent in his performance, improving steadily.

real
11-01-2006, 03:00 PM
By not stinking up, I mean he did the same thing Sunday that he had done in four of the previous six games. Everybody thought he was great then, but now he's stinking it up??


Well my point is that Carr hasn't been spectacular this season....he's overall been pretty good...He's had some poor plays in games but overall this game was a low point for him....

He stunk it up on sunday Kyss...I'm not really sure how you can spin that...

tsip
11-01-2006, 03:03 PM
"There is definitely more pressure on Carr....If you don't think Carr is feeling the heat now more than ever I don't know what to tell ya'....If you were in Carr's position wouldn't you feel like all eyes were on you ? True, Carr has always been under scrutiny, but now the Carr haters can taste blood...."

I might have 'bought' into your thinking if Kubiak had not 'tripped' all over himself making sure 'everyone' knew Carr is 'his' man, statements-IMO- that were not needed and only 'shrink' Gary's room for error in believing Carr wll lead us to the 'promised' land.

Kubuak is going to have a 'huge' credibility problem if Carr has a bad day Sunday that is a direct result of carr's play on the field. JMO, but I think Kubiak should have kept his talks to David private and re-evaluate his performance after a couple of games.

real
11-01-2006, 03:06 PM
"There is definitely more pressure on Carr....If you don't think Carr is feeling the heat now more than ever I don't know what to tell ya'....If you were in Carr's position wouldn't you feel like all eyes were on you ? True, Carr has always been under scrutiny, but now the Carr haters can taste blood...."

I might have 'bought' into your thinking if Kubiak had not 'tripped' all over himself making sure 'everyone' knew Carr is 'his' man, statements-IMO- that were not needed and only 'shrink' Gary's room for error in believing Carr wll lead us to the 'promised' land.

Kubuak is going to have a 'huge' credibility problem if Carr has a bad day Sunday that is a direct result of carr's play on the field. JMO, but I think Kubiak should have kept his talks to David private and re-evaluate his performance after a couple of games.

Im not sure where the disagreement is....I didn't say he's feeling more pressure than Kubiak...

He is...but I didn't say that til now...

thunderkyss
11-01-2006, 03:45 PM
Well my point is that Carr hasn't been spectacular this season....he's overall been pretty good...He's had some poor plays in games but overall this game was a low point for him....

He stunk it up on sunday Kyss...I'm not really sure how you can spin that...

What did he do on Sunday, that he didn't do against Indy?? or Washington?? or Dallas?? or Miami??

Back then, he was the bright spot on our offense.

What did he do against Tennesse that he didn't do in those other games?? Games where he got sacked 5 times(Indy, Miami) & 2 times(Washington??) and once(Dallas)??

What did he do to stink it up Sunday against Tennessee??

I'm not trying to spin his performance Sunday, if anything, I'm unspinning the way people on this board has seen David this year.

real
11-01-2006, 04:26 PM
What did he do on Sunday, that he didn't do against Indy?? or Washington?? or Dallas?? or Miami??
Back then, he was the bright spot on our offense.
What did he do against Tennesse that he didn't do in those other games?? Games where he got sacked 5 times(Indy, Miami) & 2 times(Washington??) and once(Dallas)??
What did he do to stink it up Sunday against Tennessee??
I'm not trying to spin his performance Sunday, if anything, I'm unspinning the way people on this board has seen David this year.

I don't know the stats off the top of my head, but in this situation stats don't mean much....

All sacks and interceptions aren't equal...

If he takes a sack in the middle of the first quater, and then the next play passes for a first down....that's not the same as taking a sack before the half and fumbling allowing the opposing team to score....

I'm sure he made some good plays during the game, but overall that was his worst game this season...Wasn't he directly responsible for two titan scores and four turnovers??? Thats poor...

infantrycak
11-01-2006, 06:03 PM
I'm sure he made some good plays during the game, but overall that was his worst game this season...Wasn't he directly responsible for two titan scores and four turnovers??? Thats poor...

1 TD, 3 turnovers.

1 TD off Carr fumble run back
2 punts off INT and other fumble
1 TD off special teams
1 TD off Sage/AJ INT
1 TD by the offense--Morlon Greenwood overrunning play.

thunderkyss
11-01-2006, 07:34 PM
I don't know the stats off the top of my head, but in this situation stats don't mean much....

All sacks and interceptions aren't equal...

If he takes a sack in the middle of the first quater, and then the next play passes for a first down....that's not the same as taking a sack before the half and fumbling allowing the opposing team to score....

he fumbled the ball on the first possessions of the Indy game. on our 16, that led to an easy TD. spotting the Colts 7 points.

I could be wrong, but I don't rememeber him taking a sack this year, and then picking up a first down. IIRC.... if David gets sacked, the drive is over whether it is first down, second, or third, doesn't matter. He gets sacked, the drive is over.

I'm sure he made some good plays during the game, but overall that was his worst game this season...Wasn't he directly responsible for two titan scores and four turnovers??? Thats poor...

Before the fumble, I was actually impressed with his ability to continue to look down the field despite the pressure.

There is one thing that I think he has done worse in this game, but it has nothing to do with Ints, or fumbles...

he was second guessing himself, bringing the ball down. If he took off to run, he wasn't as decisive as he was in the past....... I think he really wanted to win this game, & I think he could have... I don't think Kubiak should have benched him. I believe he deserved to get benched, but not in that game, against Vince.

Fine him for the fumbles, sit him against the Giants, don't allow him to take a day off even if we did win..... but I don't agree with benching him during the Titans game.

real
11-02-2006, 09:36 AM
Fine him for the fumbles, sit him against the Giants, don't allow him to take a day off even if we did win..... but I don't agree with benching him during the Titans game.

well....that's a reasonable debate.......

You can look at it either way though....

If he'd have left him in I don't know if that'd have been the best message to the rest of the team....You can't make mistakes like that, and expect to still be in the game....

Right now Carr is being given the benefit of the doubt....I really dislike the fact that we even have a problem like this....Kubes has said himself...how the QB goes, the team goes....If Carr has a better game...we win....

At this point I'm pretty much fed up with Carr...It's one thing to throw interceptions, make the wrong read, and take sacks...That happens.....But as a 5 year vet you should not be giving the game away like that...

Im hoping Kubes can bring some consistency to the situation, because IMO, if he isn't playing on a consistently good basis by the end of the year we need to seriously think about going another direction...WE CAN NOT GO INTO YEAR SIX AND STILL HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS GUY....I don't care how bad he was previously coached....