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tulexan
10-29-2006, 09:56 PM
This message board is just too funny. One day ago, there were several people talking about how great David Carr is and how he is a potential pro bowler this season.

He has a bad game and now people are talking about him like he couldn't start ahead of Aaron Brooks.

Sage played well and had a few nice touchdowns, but what is the difference between the three touchdowns that Sage had against the Titans when the score was 21-3 and the three touchdowns that David Carr had against the Colts when the score was 30-3?

Carr rightfully was benched for having so many turnovers (wasn't this the accountability that we and Carr asked for?), but this does not mean that Carr is going to be traded at the end of the season.

There is no changing of the guard, Kubiak sent a message to Carr that turnovers are not acceptable and I'm sure that Carr got that message after watching the second half from the sidelines.


I suggest that everyone calm down, take a deep breath, step away from the computer, and watch some TV or read a book for several hours.

austintexanite
10-29-2006, 10:01 PM
nice

Dime
10-29-2006, 10:42 PM
The main problem people (I have) is inconsistant play from Carr. He can play AWESOME for a quarter of football making many good decisions, good vision, and excellent ball placement (this year only here folks), only to come out the next quarter making horrible calls, placement, etc. He has the chance and the vision to be a awesome qb.. but reminds me of the Mr Jeckal and Mr Hyde syndrome. He has improved greatly from the last 4 years this year.. but he still has flashs of horrible play.

Today, he showed an example of the horrible play. And so he was sitting thinking about it. Right now, it is Carrs position to lose. He was rattled today. You could see it. Is that enough to wake him up to the seriousness of his plight?. I dont know.
Only Carr and time can tell. We just know he is running out of time.

tulexan
10-29-2006, 10:48 PM
The main problem people (I have) is inconsistant play from Carr. He can play AWESOME for a quarter of football making many good decisions, good vision, and excellent ball placement (this year only here folks), only to come out the next quarter making horrible calls, placement, etc. He has the chance and the vision to be a awesome qb.. but reminds me of the Mr Jeckal and Mr Hyde syndrome. He has improved greatly from the last 4 years this year.. but he still has flashs of horrible play.

Today, he showed an example of the horrible play. And so he was sitting thinking about it. Right now, it is Carrs position to lose. He was rattled today. You could see it. Is that enough to wake him up to the seriousness of his plight?. I dont know.
Only Carr and time can tell. We just know he is running out of time.


Old habits are hard to forget. Especially ones that you have been doing for the past 4 years without any criticism from coaches. But like you have said, his improvement is impressive.

rockabilly
10-29-2006, 10:56 PM
[QUOTE=tulexan;483788]This message board is just too funny. One day ago, there were several people talking about how great David Carr is and how he is a potential pro bowler this season.

He has a bad game and now people are talking about him like he couldn't start ahead of Aaron Brooks.

Sage played well and had a few nice touchdowns, but what is the difference between the three touchdowns that Sage had against the Titans when the score was 21-3 and the three touchdowns that David Carr had against the Colts when the score was 30-3?

QUOTE]

The difference is that the Titans starters were still in....and the game which initially was waaay out of reach, was lost by 6 points. If Sage had another minute, there is no doubt in my mind that we may have seen a great comeback for a victory.

I love Carr to death. But he played poorly. Sage played amazing. You have to reward Sage for that.

Grid
10-29-2006, 10:57 PM
I was very high on Carr before the Titans game.

But our biggest enemy right now is ourselves.. we are struggling with consistancy, and we cant afford to have the most important player on our offense laying an egg like this.

Everyone on this team went out there and played hard.. and Carr was the only guy that didnt have his head in the game. Carr LOST this game for us. We COULD have been 3-4 right now with the easiest part of our schedule coming up.. we COULD be talking about how we are one win from .500 and already having a better year than last year. The only reason we ARENT doing that, is Carr.

That is just not going to fly. Before.. when Carr had a bad game..it wasnt JUST him. We had so many other problems that it was easy to see why we didnt pull out the win.. it was a group effort. We are a team trying to find itself, and having a QB that will drag the whole team down against what SHOULD have been an easy win.. at a time like this.. its unforgivable.

The part that irks me is that he has been the very picture of consistency. I mean, yah he has had on and off quarters.. but for the most part those issues could be linked to OTHER factors. Like the defense staying on the field for too long, WRs dropping passes... the line not providing the blocking needed to establish a run game and keep defenses honest..etc..etc..etc..

Carr has looked better every week and then he lays an egg... it doesnt give me much hope for him as the guy that will take us to the superbowl. This team isnt good enough to win despite Carr sucking.

Anyway im repeating myself.

We have a coach that KNOWS how to make winning QBs.. I think we need to let him draft one in this next draft, and start grooming a replacement. We have seen what Kubiak can do with ruined QBs.. he did it with Plummer and now he is done it with Carr... now I want to see what he can do with a guy that ISNT already flawed.

tulexan
10-29-2006, 11:01 PM
So Carr allowed a punt return for a touchdown? AJ had some big drops too.

South Texan
10-29-2006, 11:02 PM
Old habits are hard to forget. Especially ones that you have been doing for the past 4 years without any criticism from coaches. But like you have said, his improvement is impressive.

Let's hope he got the message today that this is a new regime. A football game is four quarters long, and unlike boxing you can't take a round off.

Gotta admit, with the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly this is turning into a real rollercoaster of a year.

Grid
10-29-2006, 11:04 PM
Fact of the matter is that the Titans were having a heck of a time moving the ball on us.

Take away the awesome field position, and fumble for a touchdown that carr is responsible for..and we win the game.. despite the 2 crucial AJ drops, and the punt return for a TD.

edo783
10-29-2006, 11:12 PM
Fact of the matter is that the Titans were having a heck of a time moving the ball on us.

Take away the awesome field position, and fumble for a touchdown that carr is responsible for..and we win the game.. despite the 2 crucial AJ drops, and the punt return for a TD.


Basically, if you take away pretty much any of the turn overs, we win, whether they were Carr's or not.

We dominated this game big time, but we shot our selves in the foot 5 times and had a boatload of penalties. If you are -5 on turnovers, you don't win in the NFL, in fact if you -2 on turn overs you will lose 90% of the time.

David23
10-29-2006, 11:25 PM
So let me get this straight
Quote:
"Everyone on this team went out there and played hard.. and Carr was the only guy that didnt have his head in the game. Carr LOST this game for us."
So AJ had some crucial drops, our special teams allowed a punt return, and Salaam couldn't block and had 3 bad false start penalties, but Carr lost this game for us by himself. What game were you watching, no one game is won or lost by just one players' effort.

Grid
10-29-2006, 11:28 PM
ill give you Salaam.

AJ did have 2 bad drops but had plays that made up for it.

Our oline struggled at times. But this has all been discussed in another thread.

Fact of the matter is that if Carr had come out and played HALF as good as he played the 4-5 weeks previous, we would have come away with an easy win. But Carr came in and hardly played at all.. his head wasnt in the game, and it cost us the win.

valleytexfan
10-29-2006, 11:29 PM
This message board is just too funny. One day ago, there were several people talking about how great David Carr is and how he is a potential pro bowler this season.

He has a bad game and now people are talking about him like he couldn't start ahead of Aaron Brooks.

Sage played well and had a few nice touchdowns, but what is the difference between the three touchdowns that Sage had against the Titans when the score was 21-3 and the three touchdowns that David Carr had against the Colts when the score was 30-3?

Carr rightfully was benched for having so many turnovers (wasn't this the accountability that we and Carr asked for?), but this does not mean that Carr is going to be traded at the end of the season.

There is no changing of the guard, Kubiak sent a message to Carr that turnovers are not acceptable and I'm sure that Carr got that message after watching the second half from the sidelines.


I suggest that everyone calm down, take a deep breath, step away from the computer, and watch some TV or read a book for several hours.

here, here. We're still rebuilding, fellas. No matter what happens. This year is not a waste just yet.

Marcus
10-29-2006, 11:30 PM
We have a coach that KNOWS how to make winning QBs.. I think we need to let him draft one in this next draft, and start grooming a replacement. We have seen what Kubiak can do with ruined QBs.. he did it with Plummer and now he is done it with Carr... now I want to see what he can do with a guy that ISNT already flawed.
Why should we draft another unproven rookie and wait some more years for Kubiak to "groom a replacement"? What exactly is Sage's "flaw"?

Grid
10-29-2006, 11:36 PM
Sage's flaw is that he lacks any "outstanding" features.

His greatest strength is his ability to be incredibly average. He has an arm that is neither weak nor strong.. his generalship is neither good nor bad.. his mobility is satisfactory, being neither a weakness, nor a threat to defenses. etc..etc..etc..

Sage is an outstanding backup QB. I am as hard pressed to find a weakness with him as I am to find a strength. He is not a game manager like Brady or Delhomme, he is not a general like Favre or Manning, he is not a playmaker like Vick or McNabb.... so that is why I say draft someone.

Kubiak can start from scratch..building the QB he needs.. and if we can use a high pick on him..he will be a guy that has a strength other than "he doesnt make too many mistakes".

Marcus
10-29-2006, 11:55 PM
Sage's flaw is that he lacks any "outstanding" features.

His greatest strength is his ability to be incredibly average. He has an arm that is neither weak nor strong.. his generalship is neither good nor bad.. his mobility is satisfactory, being neither a weakness, nor a threat to defenses. etc..etc..etc..

Sage is an outstanding backup QB. I am as hard pressed to find a weakness with him as I am to find a strength. He is not a game manager like Brady or Delhomme, he is not a general like Favre or Manning, he is not a playmaker like Vick or McNabb.... so that is why I say draft someone.

Kubiak can start from scratch..building the QB he needs.. and if we can use a high pick on him..he will be a guy that has a strength other than "he doesnt make too many mistakes".
I dunno . . . I've been watching football for over 40 years, and what I saw from Sage today is plenty enough for me. Sorry, I don't want to wait any longer to see if some high paid unproven rookie works out.

wolf123
10-30-2006, 12:33 AM
I dunno . . . I've been watching football for over 40 years, and what I saw from Sage today is plenty enough for me. Sorry, I don't want to wait any longer to see if some high paid unproven rookie works out.

I have to disagree with you about Sage. Yes, he played very well today, but like someone said above, lacks the ability to produce beyond "adequacy". For one, the majority of his deep balls today were overthrown, lacking the "touch" that someone earlier claimed he has as well as throwing high and behind AJ, Moulds, and Daniels, but each made spectacular adjustments to catch these ERRANT throw. He also clearly lacked the time management needed to make the run at the end, possibly due to lack of practice but who really knows.

By blaming the ENTIRE loss on Carr, which I don't believe you did Marcus, is exagerating. I see your point, but drives were killed by more than just Carr's play while he was in. There were a couple drops, one by Daniels on 3rd and 4, and one or two by AJ and Lundy, that killed several drives as well. Another point is, other than Salaam who was horrible, Weigart was getting SLAUGHTERED by VanderBosch. On the two fumbles, Carr had a five step drop, I believe, took a step up into the pocket and was crushed from Van on Weigart side. Carr made have held the ball too long in past sacks and even the final fumble of today, but the tackles we had out there today did not create the pocket that they did for Sage, this is most likely due to the lack of blitzing when Sage came in. The punt return was also a nasty addition to this mess of a game, or the blocked extra point.

wolf123
10-30-2006, 12:39 AM
Did anyone else notice that Ten had gameplanned for Carr's rollouts, guarding each one almost perfectly, but Sage's couple were completely un-guarded. Sage was only really rushed once, but he did an excellent job of rolling left and finding the open man, i believe was Daniels on this instance. Just an observation.

Vinny
10-30-2006, 12:58 AM
Did anyone else notice that Ten had gameplanned for Carr's rollouts, guarding each one almost perfectly, but Sage's couple were completely un-guarded. Sage was only really rushed once, but he did an excellent job of rolling left and finding the open man, i believe was Daniels on this instance. Just an observation.

That's what happens when you beat teams deep in the seam and over the linebacker drop. Other things open up since you can't be everywhere all the time...Teams will take away what you do best so you have to be able to beat them in different ways. You really tell the defense how to defense you by either throwing almost all your passes underneath or rolling out on the vast majority of your passes. I think that if Carr was better in the pocket he would have more space on the edge. You can't take away everything.

The great thing about football is that their is a countermeasure for everything...but remember that Offense is creative and defense is destructive. You have to do more than one thing well or the defense will destroy what you do well and force you to beat them with what you don't do well. Historically, Carr struggles in the pocket. Apparently Sage doesn't.

TK_Gamer
10-30-2006, 01:25 AM
I have to disagree with you about Sage. Yes, he played very well today, but like someone said above, lacks the ability to produce beyond "adequacy". For one, the majority of his deep balls today were overthrown, lacking the "touch" that someone earlier claimed he has as well as throwing high and behind AJ, Moulds, and Daniels, but each made spectacular adjustments to catch these ERRANT throw. He also clearly lacked the time management needed to make the run at the end, possibly due to lack of practice but who really knows.

By blaming the ENTIRE loss on Carr, which I don't believe you did Marcus, is exagerating. I see your point, but drives were killed by more than just Carr's play while he was in. There were a couple drops, one by Daniels on 3rd and 4, and one or two by AJ and Lundy, that killed several drives as well. Another point is, other than Salaam who was horrible, Weigart was getting SLAUGHTERED by VanderBosch. On the two fumbles, Carr had a five step drop, I believe, took a step up into the pocket and was crushed from Van on Weigart side. Carr made have held the ball too long in past sacks and even the final fumble of today, but the tackles we had out there today did not create the pocket that they did for Sage, this is most likely due to the lack of blitzing when Sage came in. The punt return was also a nasty addition to this mess of a game, or the blocked extra point.

I agree, and lets not forget how bad salaam was getting beat by odom. then like magic sage comes in the game and because odom is now injured in the lockeroom, the pressure on the oline is reduced by half. now sage gets 3 seconds to read the field and he does well, surprise surprise.

sleepwalker
10-30-2006, 06:07 AM
The titan's D studied film on Carr all week.

As far as Sage beating people deep and down the seam, I don't recall seeing that but I'll watch the tape again.

PoolMaster21
10-30-2006, 06:31 AM
The great thing about football is that their is a countermeasure for everything...but remember that Offense is creative and defense is destructive. You have to do more than one thing well or the defense will destroy what you do well and force you to beat them with what you don't do well. Historically, Carr struggles in the pocket. Apparently Sage doesn't.

Good point. Over the years I've observed that when there's a QB change during the game, and the backup has a significantly different style, that backup often looks like the second coming of Montana. But once people learn about the new QB's strengths and the D starts gameplanning against them things get tougher.

Yesterday the combination of a good Tenn defensive game plan against Carr plus the Texans being tight and making horrific mistakes lead to a blow-out. It's ugly but it happens. As long as it's rare I won't be too depressed.

JDizzle
10-30-2006, 07:29 AM
What is funny is how people continue to coddle Carr like he's a porcelain doll. Play like that against a bad team such as the Titans is totally inexcusable when you are pulling down $8 mil per year.

real
10-30-2006, 07:30 AM
So Carr allowed a punt return for a touchdown? AJ had some big drops too.

I think it's obvious that Carr is held at a different standard than the rest of the players...

The Pencil Neck
10-30-2006, 08:59 AM
So Carr allowed a punt return for a touchdown? AJ had some big drops too.

Carr threw into quadruple coverage. Carr fumbled twice. A couple of the sacks were his fault. (Not all of them, though.)

Above and beyond that, we don't know what reads Carr was missing. Kubiak knows how many yards Carr was leaving on the field.

I like that Kubiak benched Carr. I love that Sage came in and kicked butt. Kubiak has said that he believes in competition for every spot on the roster and now, we've got competition at the QB spot. It's Carr's job but if he doesn't perform to Kubiak's standard's, he loses it.

After the initial sadness has worn away, I'm actually even more excited about the rest of the year.

jerek
10-30-2006, 09:17 AM
Funny? More like pathetic.

Sage played a pretty good game. That said, he had the benefit of not being gameplanned for, he has absolutely no touch on a long ball and wasn't being pressured as much. I like the Carr benching if DC comes out fired up because of it next week. He looked pissed to be on the sideline and I'm hoping this motivates him.

QBs far greater than Carr have all had a donkey game or two. Carr has one bad game coming off of a pretty good game against a superior opponent. You don't condone mistakes (I know both Kubiak and Carr aren't) but to act as if he's suddenly a colossal failure is ridiculous.

thunderkyss
10-30-2006, 09:42 AM
Funny? More like pathetic.
You don't condone mistakes (I know both Kubiak and Carr aren't) but to act as if he's suddenly a colossal failure is ridiculous.


I completely agree...... that's why I started the "What if We Lose" thread. Everybody was happy & content with our win against Jax, the week before, the same people were wanting wholesale changes.

David's been a "great QB" up til yesterday, now he's the worst in the league.....

The swing on this board is just crazy.

kingh99
10-30-2006, 09:45 AM
Funny? More like pathetic.

Sage played a pretty good game. That said, he had the benefit of not being gameplanned for, he has absolutely no touch on a long ball and wasn't being pressured as much. I like the Carr benching if DC comes out fired up because of it next week. He looked pissed to be on the sideline and I'm hoping this motivates him.

QBs far greater than Carr have all had a donkey game or two. Carr has one bad game coming off of a pretty good game against a superior opponent. You don't condone mistakes (I know both Kubiak and Carr aren't) but to act as if he's suddenly a colossal failure is ridiculous.

"Sage played a pretty good game". I would say he did :). We came out of our chairs like we did back in the day when we had a team we lived and died with. Oh say 93.

real
10-30-2006, 09:48 AM
I completely agree...... that's why I started the "What if We Lose" thread. Everybody was happy & content with our win against Jax, the week before, the same people were wanting wholesale changes.

David's been a "great QB" up til yesterday, now he's the worst in the league.....

The swing on this board is just crazy.

If for the rest of D.Carr's career he has a great game followed by a terrible game the reaction will be the same....



I don't know how much of a "swing" there is on this board...I just think the Carr doubters and haters come out when he has a bad game...

Vinny
10-30-2006, 09:50 AM
The swing on this board is just crazy.what is with all this mass mind stuff anyway? As of right this second we have 6,592 members with, 2,293 active members (people posting in the last month). You are going to get diverse views after games. Not everyone is going to be on the same page....and at times it will look like it the board swings...but we have a huge volume of people stating their minds. What I think is funny is how some of you guys try to tell everyone how they should think, or how to be a "good fan"....as if there is a certain way to be a fan and share your pov. The fans are split on this and it comes through clearly imo.

jerek
10-30-2006, 09:59 AM
Sage is a very capable backup QB who could potentially start for a number of teams in this league including ours. That said, his poise and his presence (which are not nearly as superior as people are making them out to be) come at the expense of not being able to reliably place a ball precisely past fifteen yards. I was horribly unimpressed with his clock management.

Nobody's seen his true game to this point because "the Titans were playing prevent D" (no they weren't, but neither were the Colts when everyone threw a hissy fit about Carr's numbers shouldn't count in that game) but more importantly because nobody had gameplanned for Sage either. Whether due solely to poor O-line play or defensive calling, there was less pressure in the backfield for Sage.

Carr sucked this game against a bad defense and Sage turned in a pretty good performance against a bad defense; there's no denying either. Calling for the guy's head -- especially coming off of a pretty good performance in a very exhilerating win against a superior opponent -- is typical of the knee-jerk whinery that makes this part of the MB increasingly less enjoyable to wade through.

Kaiser Toro
10-30-2006, 10:01 AM
Sage is a very capable backup QB who could potentially start for a number of teams in this league including ours. That said, his poise and his presence (which are not nearly as superior as people are making them out to be) come at the expense of not being able to reliably place a ball precisely past fifteen yards.

Nobody's seen his true game to this point because "the Titans were playing prevent D" (no they weren't, but neither were the Colts when everyone threw a hissy fit about Carr's numbers shouldn't count in that game) but more importantly because nobody had gameplanned for Sage either. Whether due solely to poor O-line play or defensive calling, there was less pressure in the backfield for Sage.

Carr sucked this game against a bad defense and Sage turned in a pretty good performance against a bad defense; there's no denying either. Calling for the guy's head -- especially coming off of a pretty good performance in a very exhilerating win against a superior opponent -- is typical of the knee-jerk whinery that makes this part of the MB increasingly less enjoyable to wade through.

You have been promoting this gameplanning against Carr startegy. Please tell me how a team has to game plan aganst Carr?

kingh99
10-30-2006, 10:05 AM
You have been promoting this gameplanning against Carr startegy. Please tell me how a team has to game plan aganst Carr?

They laugh in their meetings about how they will set him up for something. They'll say I bet he audibles to such and such play when we push our safeties up. David's the guy everyone is laughing at. I would say I hate bagging on the guy but he's not going to be hurting in the game of life so who the hell cares. Hopefully he'll go on to do a Trent Dilfer or Doug Williams. He's ruined for us like those two were for their inagural teams.

jerek
10-30-2006, 10:06 AM
You have been promoting this gameplanning against Carr startegy. Please tell me how a team has to game plan aganst Carr?

It's easy. Watch tape. Carr doesn't throw well to the middle of the field. He also typically performs poorly against an aggressive rush. Cover the sideline and out routes and blitz, take away the rollouts.

Without having reviewed the tape, I can't be sure, but my impression was that the Titans did all of those things pretty successfully. Again, you don't condone the fumbles (although you do ask yourself why Wiegert can't even hold off the DE until Carr has completed a seven step drop) or throwing at Andre in triple coverage; those are all very simply bad mistakes and are not a function of opponent's gameplanning.

OTOH there are maybe five minutes of gametape floating around the NFL re: Sage, and no one expected to see him play any way. Sage looks upfield in the middle. He probably is (or at least was this game) more poised and adept at avoiding the initial rush. Sage had the first half to watch the opposing D and he took advantage.

I'm not saying diminish his good play or exonerate Carr for his bad; I'm saying put them into a little perspective.

thunderkyss
10-30-2006, 10:10 AM
I have to disagree with you about Sage. Yes, he played very well today, but like someone said above, lacks the ability to produce beyond "adequacy". For one, the majority of his deep balls today were overthrown, lacking the "touch" that someone earlier claimed he has as well as throwing high and behind AJ, Moulds, and Daniels, but each made spectacular adjustments to catch these ERRANT throw. He also clearly lacked the time management needed to make the run at the end, possibly due to lack of practice but who really knows.

If we are going to nit pick every one of Sage's passes, we need to take into account that he doesn't get the amount of snaps in practice as David.

David's underthrown quite a few passes this year, his touch & delivery is just as much in question as Sage's.

& we should definitely not talk about throwing behind the recievers if we want Carr to shine in this comparison.

Double Barrel
10-30-2006, 10:10 AM
Carr came out of the gate looking horrible and flat. That's not what 'big game' QBs do, and every football fan should understand this basic perspective.

We consistently see inconsistent play from Carr. It's one of those weekly questions: which David Carr will show up? And will he play a full game, or just two good quarters of football?

I've never seen a fifth year QB that has played this much with so many unanswered questions. But in my mind, some of those answers are staring us in the face. The same problems scouts pointed out before he was drafted are still clearly visible. He's got no pocket presence. Dude runs backwards into defensive linemen getting blocked!

And what was that QUADRUPLE COVERAGE crap he threw into yesterday?!!! That was GARBAGE, and we should be able to expect more from him.

SBTexans08
10-30-2006, 10:12 AM
Good post, D.B.

thunderkyss
10-30-2006, 10:12 AM
I think it's obvious that Carr is held at a different standard than the rest of the players...

And rightfully so. If we are going to dog AJ for every drop, then we should dog Carr for every incomplete pass thrown in criticle situations.

Kaiser Toro
10-30-2006, 10:13 AM
It's easy. Watch tape. Carr doesn't throw well to the middle of the field. He also typically performs poorly against an aggressive rush. Cover the sideline and out routes and blitz, take away the rollouts.

Without having reviewed the tape, I can't be sure, but my impression was that the Titans did all of those things pretty successfully. Again, you don't condone the fumbles (although you do ask yourself why Wiegert can't even hold off the DE until Carr has completed a seven step drop) or throwing at Andre in triple coverage; those are all very simply bad mistakes and are not a function of opponent's gameplanning.

OTOH there are maybe five minutes of gametape floating around the NFL re: Sage, and no one expected to see him play any way. Sage looks upfield in the middle. He probably is (or at least was this game) more poised and adept at avoiding the initial rush. Sage had the first half to watch the opposing D and he took advantage.

I'm not saying diminish his good play or exonerate Carr for his bad; I'm saying put them into a little perspective.

I would argue that a hybird of the Kubiak playbook and Carr are what is to be gameplanned against. If I were a DC you simply need to apply pressure on the edge against Carr and not worry about the Kubiak playbook. In that circumstance you are probably correct in that we had a QB in the second half that simply executed and the Titans, who are not that good defensively, could not make adjustments. Friggin AJ - his drops and not knowing where he was in the end zone.

Vinny
10-30-2006, 10:16 AM
Anyone slaming Sage's play yesterday has zero clue what they are looking at.

real
10-30-2006, 10:22 AM
And rightfully so. If we are going to dog AJ for every drop, then we should dog Carr for every incomplete pass thrown in criticle situations.

Yeah I agree...

But what I meant was, that Carr is obviously given more rope(to hang himself ?) than the rest of the players...

I think that is a good thing....I want David to start...I say start him this whole year no matter what...If he fails, then we move on...simple...

Blake
10-30-2006, 10:27 AM
I think its pretty black and white. Carr was making bad decisions. Being careless with the ball, and just didnt have a feel for the pressure in the pocket.

Sage comes in, brings us close to winning this thing, even after we are minus 4 in the turnover battle.

Sage looked like a QB who knew where to throw it, when to move out of the pocket, and knew how to protect the football.

Play Sage until he gives you a reason to play Carr.

phan1
10-30-2006, 10:27 AM
I'm just going to wait and see how he plays against the Gians, cause right now, I just don't know what to think. Carr is in a totally different situation now, and I really hope he responds next Sunday.

Carr's pocket presence is pretty bad though. I always hold my breath and think the worst when he drops back in the pocket, and I think the reason is because his pocket presence is so bad. And it doesn't matter how good he's played this season either. Everytime he drops back there, there's always this feeling in my stomache that tells me something just isn't right... But when Sage was in there, I felt the worse that could happen was an incomplete pass. It never looked like he was going to take a sack or throw an INT.

That being said, I still want Carr to come out and respond Sunday. But that bad feeling in my stomache will probably always be there when he's at QB... Some memories just "stick" I guess.

thunderkyss
10-30-2006, 10:29 AM
What I think is funny is how some of you guys try to tell everyone how they should think, or how to be a "good fan"....as if there is a certain way to be a fan and share your pov. The fans are split on this and it comes through clearly imo.

Well, that's not what I'm getting at.

You've done well analyzing David's game, and you have a sound understanding of why his QB rating means little to nothing. Did you honestly expect David to do any different Sunday than he did??

I know I'm sitting there thinking, "Not another fumble!!" not because I've seen proof that he is working on holding on to the ball. But because I hope for the sake of hoping.

I understood all of David's flaws when we gave him $8 million to return as our starter, I understood Kubiak said he was going to work on that, & I understood it would take more than 7 games (8 weeks) to fix everything.

IMHO this is the same David that played against JacksonVille & Dallas...... he just wasn't put under the same amount of pressure he had to deal with against Philly, Indy, Washington, or Miami. He played just as badly in those games, & if he had the chance to, he would have thrown for 2 or 3 TDs in the 4th Qtr to raise his QB rating.

We've run for 100 yards against two teams that allow 100 yards of rushing, and now we've got people thinking we've got a running game, when it really isn't much better if any than when we started the season.

My point, is that people are looking and reacting to the wrong things, and that's why I think we have this swing.

I don't understand how we can have so many people upset about losing games, when we thought we were going to lose the majority of them anyway.

bah007
10-30-2006, 10:34 AM
Well, that's not what I'm getting at.

You've done well analyzing David's game, and you have a sound understanding of why his QB rating means little to nothing. Did you honestly expect David to do any different Sunday than he did??

I know I'm sitting there thinking, "Not another fumble!!" not because I've seen proof that he is working on holding on to the ball. But because I hope for the sake of hoping.

I understood all of David's flaws when we gave him $8 million to return as our starter, I understood Kubiak said he was going to work on that, & I understood it would take more than 7 games (8 weeks) to fix everything.

IMHO this is the same David that played against JacksonVille & Dallas...... he just wasn't put under the same amount of pressure he had to deal with against Philly, Indy, Washington, or Miami. He played just as badly in those games, & if he had the chance to, he would have thrown for 2 or 3 TDs in the 4th Qtr to raise his QB rating.

We've run for 100 yards against two teams that allow 100 yards of rushing, and now we've got people thinking we've got a running game, when it really isn't much better if any than when we started the season.

My point, is that people are looking and reacting to the wrong things, and that's why I think we have this swing.

I don't understand how we can have so many people upset about losing games, when we thought we were going to lose the majority of them anyway.

The reason everyone is upset is because there were about 10 threads on Saturday that talked about how we would crush the Titans like they were a college team & we didnt.

I thought we would lose this game (I think we will win when they come here). Our team & everyone on this board was too overconfident. There is parity in the NFL and we are not a good enough team to walk into a game thinking we have already won.

jerek
10-30-2006, 10:35 AM
And rightfully so. If we are going to dog AJ for every drop, then we should dog Carr for every incomplete pass thrown in criticle situations.

Yes and no. AJ had multiple drops and a few of them quite crucial in sustaining the drive. Catching the friggin ball when it hits you in the hands is supposed to be the easy part of playing receiver. Carr generally demonstrates a lot of precision in his throws; it's making the right or best read in the first place that is generally his greatest weakness.

Blake
10-30-2006, 10:37 AM
I'm just going to wait and see how he plays against the Gians, cause right now, I just don't know what to think. Carr is in a totally different situation now, and I really hope he responds next Sunday.

That being said, I still want Carr to come out and respond Sunday. But that bad feeling in my stomache will probably always be there when he's at QB... Some memories just "stick" I guess.

You know that the G-men are licking their chops to get a sack or two off David. They know he will hold the ball to long, or run straight into pressure (i.e. a guy getting blocked) and Carr will give them leverage at their next contract negotiation.

thunderkyss
10-30-2006, 10:52 AM
Yes and no. AJ had multiple drops and a few of them quite crucial in sustaining the drive. Catching the friggin ball when it hits you in the hands is supposed to be the easy part of playing receiver. Carr generally demonstrates a lot of precision in his throws; it's making the right or best read in the first place that is generally his greatest weakness.

many of the passes he threw against Jacksonville was behind his reciever. the jump ball being underthrown for AJ, I understand was underthrown on purpose. But when your guy is coming across the middle, he shouldn't have to reach back to get it. AJ & Eric were catching those last week, that says more about them as recievers than it does about Carr.

He showed great placement on one of the inside slants to AJ for a first, on 1st & 10....... he put the ball in a very small window, between a linebacker & the corner on AJs back...... but I wouldn't say he "generally demonstrates a lot of precision in his throws"

Miami, he did very well splitting defenders, and finding holes in zones.... I was hoping we'd see more of that, but since then...... actually since Brady James tipped up that INT, I haven't seen him try anything like that since.

Texans_Chick
10-30-2006, 11:04 AM
This message board is just too funny. One day ago, there were several people talking about how great David Carr is and how he is a potential pro bowler this season.

He has a bad game and now people are talking about him like he couldn't start ahead of Aaron Brooks.

Sage played well and had a few nice touchdowns, but what is the difference between the three touchdowns that Sage had against the Titans when the score was 21-3 and the three touchdowns that David Carr had against the Colts when the score was 30-3?

Carr rightfully was benched for having so many turnovers (wasn't this the accountability that we and Carr asked for?), but this does not mean that Carr is going to be traded at the end of the season.

There is no changing of the guard, Kubiak sent a message to Carr that turnovers are not acceptable and I'm sure that Carr got that message after watching the second half from the sidelines.


I suggest that everyone calm down, take a deep breath, step away from the computer, and watch some TV or read a book for several hours.


Best post of the day.

I think it is funny how as fans we don't want the team to panic and to get too high or too low, but as a fanbase, we can't help but do it ourselves.

Blake
10-30-2006, 11:11 AM
Best post of the day.

I think it is funny how as fans we don't want the team to panic and to get too high or too low, but as a fanbase, we can't help but do it ourselves.

The Carr haters come out when Carr plays like crap, and the Carr supporters come out when he plays really good. What is hard to understand about that?

I am not a Carr supporter. I dont post about him when he is playing awesome, saying how he has my support. But when he lays an egg out there like he did today, im going to make my voice heard.

Vinny
10-30-2006, 11:17 AM
Carr is a classic "coach killer". He got Dom and he is working his magic on Kubiak. He is good enough to have hope but bad enough and inconsistent enough to get your coach fired over the long haul. Sad stuff we keep rolling him out game in game out for half a decade...imo...but it's my opinion, so I post it.

kingh99
10-30-2006, 11:26 AM
Carr is a classic "coach killer". He got Dom and he is working his magic on Kubiak. He is good enough to have hope but bad enough and inconsistent enough to get your coach fired over the long haul. Sad stuff we keep rolling him out game in game out for half a decade...imo...but it's my opinion, so I post it.

I thought Vince was going to be a coach killer. Fisher looks like he's finding the same comfort zone Mack Brown found.