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Texans_Chick
10-29-2006, 07:08 PM
Please put your first impressions post game here. Please, football talk and analysis only (in other words, save the junk talk for another thread). Lots of threads to sort through, and I was hoping to start one of these threads to read a lot of interesting stuff in one place.

Here is my Chronic first impression post. Did it really quick because the Chronic folks want something up fastLink: "Carr starting against Giants = talk radio vacation" (http://blogs.chron.com/fanblogtexans/2006/10/carr_starting_against_giants_t.html)

What say you?

the wonger need food
10-29-2006, 07:15 PM
Carr choked. Rosenfels is made for this offense. This is by far the best draft class we've ever had. Carr choked.

Bongo59
10-29-2006, 07:18 PM
Texans OL is the real culprit...............Carr needs a new address............I dont see him ever making it in Houston.......................Oh and the Titans ST has beaten the Texans an awfull lot since 2002.

Hervoyel
10-29-2006, 07:18 PM
The change at QB did the exact same thing that bringing Tony Banks in used to do (only Rosenfels is better than Banks was). It seemed to settle the rest of the offense down. When Carr was playing everything looked like it was happening in fast forward. When Sage came in our offense began playing at a steadier pace. The difference is really hard to miss.

My other observation is that the Texans look a lot like the Oilers of the mid to late 80's (before they started winning). I was sitting there watching the game thinking "I've seen this before...."

NEROtheZERO
10-29-2006, 07:19 PM
I was very disappointed with Shepherd's return play. I thought we had something special in him but he played a horrible game. Anderson came in and filled in very nicely, I think he might have stolen that position from Shepherd after this game.

Our rookies play an outstanding game. Lundy and Daniels both had 100 yd games and Daniels had a pair of TDs. Mario isn't getting talked about for sacking VY and would probably be recieving a lot of heat if he didn't. He also had four tackles and effectively contained the running game. DeMeco was his usual self.

Carr's play was abysmal. I really like that Kubiak benched him in favor of Sage. Sage played great and we probably win if Sage starts. With that being said I think it is the right decision to start Carr next week. I think we need to give him a full season under Kubiak and see if he can string together some consistancy. If not I think we explore trading him in the offseason.

Overall I am liking what I am seeing. Our defense has made strides from week 1. We found a running game and our passing game is what it has been all season. Penalties and turnovers absolutely killed us this week but there is light at the end of the tunel. I like where we are sitting after another Kubiak offseason going into 2007.

JDizzle
10-29-2006, 07:20 PM
Wonger, did Carr choke? LOL.

I didn't click your link TC but my first impression is that next week is Carr's last chance at his job. Kubiak's post game declaration today was a last-ditch effort to get Carr's tail from between his legs and if he doesn't earn his $8 mil next week then he's done, and alot of fans with Carr jerseys will start spray-painting a "1" in front of the 8 and write Rosenfels on the back.

jteg25
10-29-2006, 07:25 PM
D-line played better..but how come there is always a wide open guy in the secondary against our d....safeties that bad? Lundy=Mike Anderson but we still need a a Terrell Davis. David gets till the end of the season to prove himself.

Tulip
10-29-2006, 07:31 PM
Our rookies rock. I wonder if we'll have our 4th rookie nominated for rookie of the week this week (Owen Daniels).

Reggie Bush threw more interceptions today than Vince Young.

My worst fears about David Carr's post-Capers mental state are coming true.

I still have no clue why we picked up Ron Dayne and traded Morency for Gado.

Our secondary was lucky that the Titans don't have a good receiving corps.

The Pencil Neck
10-29-2006, 07:31 PM
1. The defense looks like it's starting to come together a little bit.

2. The running game looks like it's starting to come together. But you can see why Lundy had been on the bench by some of his blitz pickups. Or, at least, ATTEMPTS to pick up the blitz.

3. Rosenfels looked a lot better than Carr did. He looked cooler in the pocket and his throws looked better. He seemed to have better vision. Carr looked like he just fell to pieces at times. I've said before that my biggest fear for him is the psychological damage he's taken over the past 4 years. I was hoping that Kubiak was fixing that. I've been surprised by how well Carr has been playing but we can't give up fumbles like that.

Before the season, I'd been saying give Carr the entire season before judging him but now... I wouldn't be against Kubiak making the switch to Sage.

Runner
10-29-2006, 07:37 PM
Both of our offensive tackles were dominated in the passing game. Even when they didn't give up sacks the defensive ends were getting hits on Carr. Their play was as bad as anyone else on the team.

Salaam and Weigert both need some time on the bench like Carr got, but the Texans have left themselves without that option. We are stuck with both of them, or at least one of them if Winston plays. The Texans need to make a roster move at tackle.

The running backs did pretty good in pass protection and helped Salaam out from looking even worse than he did.

Sage's pocket presence is much better than Carr's (given the small playing sample we had today). He can make the small moves within a collapsing "pocket" to give himself time and still make the play.

Bongo59
10-29-2006, 07:44 PM
first post i completely agree with.

Texans_Chick
10-29-2006, 07:47 PM
Salaam and Weigert both need some time on the bench like Carr got, but the Texans have left themselves without that option. We are stuck with both of them, or at least one of them if Winston plays. The Texans need to make a roster move at tackle.

The running backs did pretty good in pass protection and helped Salaam out from looking even worse than he did.

Sage's pocket presence is much better than Carr's (given the small playing sample we had today). He can make the small moves within a collapsing "pocket" to give himself time and still make the play.

The Carr to Rosenfels switch in the game is going to be the big news of the day. The horrible tackle play likely isn't going to get much run, but Salaam with THREE false starts. Granato said his knee was messed up, but I was hoping that Winston would have come in some more not just as an injury replacement, but also to penalize those mental mistakes. I guess that is more Sherman's call.

Oh, and it ain't likely to look much better in NJ.

ThaShark316
10-29-2006, 08:01 PM
The Carr to Rosenfels switch in the game is going to be the big news of the day. The horrible tackle play likely isn't going to get much run, but Salaam with THREE false starts. Granato said his knee was messed up, but I was hoping that Winston would have come in some more not just as an injury replacement, but also to penalize those mental mistakes. I guess that is more Sherman's call.

Oh, and it ain't likely to look much better in NJ.

TC, the Giants game will be this...

Texans opening drive - 3 or 7 pts,
Defense's opening drive - 3 and out or 1 1st down and then 3 and out...

after that...

Giants win. :(

coachdent
10-29-2006, 08:06 PM
I said this repeatedly during the game on the frustration links! I don't think I'll do that again. Not really for the serious thinkers, more the kneejerk negative Nancys. But here goes:

I am VERY upset at the formational packages that we use offensively. When David Carr was in the game, we were consistently in one and two wide receiver sets. There were times on third and four or five when we had two tight ends, a fullback and AJ on the field. NO teams in the NFL deploy this kind of nonsense.

For the better part of the 1st half, we had two wide receivers to the left side and ran nothing but fades and hitches. Six and seven yard dumps. Nothing vertical. No crossing routes. No digs. No curls. No outs.

Salaam could not block my grandmother and yet our running backs were chipping the frontside and then getting out into pattern for two to five yard dumps. Nothing downfield and no help with our backs. The one time our backs stayed in was when EVERYONE stayed in and AJ ran a drag on playaction. This was Carr's INT. Here is a detailed version of the problems of the play. Football knowledgable folks will see where I am coming from.

Playaction passes work when you sell the run. At that point in the game, the Texans had run three times for 11 yards. Hardly selling the run. The fake went to the right and Carr was trying to throwback to his left. AJ ran a crossing route and his was the only route on the play. Hope was the DB to the left who came underneath the route and picked off the pass. There was no route to hold Hope, so he dropped back.

Carr has a tendency to force the ball, especially to AJ. If I am an OC for the Texans, why would I draw up a play where AJ is the only option on the play? How can you run a crossing route that does not have anyone holding or occupying the corner on the left side? If the tight end to the left simply releases into the flat on a delay, Hope jumps that route and the play is a completion. The safety was over the top and the other two defenders were trailing AJ by 3-5 yards

When Sage came into the game, our formations immediately changed. The fullback went to the bench and we were in three and four wides. We ran the ball successfully out of one back. We threw the ball well. We also protected better. Some folks mentioned that Sage was better in the pocket than Carr. Carr didn't have a pocket. When you dink and dunk, defenses come at you and the Titans came after Carr. The Texans did not protect Carr at all.

The Denver Broncos run game and their zone game is a one back scheme. When you bring a fullback into the mix, he determines where the play is going. Linebackers flow like crazy to the point of attack and it bastardizes the zone.

Defensively, we were better at times. I would like to see Mario on the field more often. I don't buy into the rotation of the entire defensive line. We aren't the Philadelphia Eagles and there is no need for Mario to be on the bench. He played well today and was explosive off the ball.

The Texans did Tennessee a favor with sell out blitzes. No need for it. Why send house with a guy who can scramble? There was very little in terms of disguising the blitzes either to confuse Young, who is easily confused and who forces balls. Our DBs aren't the best in man-to-man coverage and were exposed far to often.

Vince's numbers were putrid for a NFL quarterback 7-15 for 87 yards is pathetic for a NFL quarterback. He will not be a top notch NFL quarterback. Yes he threw a TD to a guy who wasn't covered at all. (very similiar to the balls he threw in the Rose Bowl). He did scramble into the end zone when the Texans got out of their rush lanes on a blitz while Mario dropped off into coverage to spy the flat to the side the blitz came from! Stupid! If you bring the house from the right side with all of your linebackers, then you drop your DEnd from the other side to spy.

Our punt returners stunk and killed us in field position. AJ needed to show some better hands on the INT.

I'd like to see us employ more of the same sets we used with Sage late in the game and give Carr a little more to work with. He has improved, but we will never see how much he has improved with the shackles on him.

Still a number of wins on the table here this year. Looking ahead, we need a more viable third wide receiver and obviously offensive line help.

alphajoker
10-29-2006, 08:10 PM
The O-line played bad, especially Weigert and Salaam. I think we should start getting Winston more reps and hope Charles Spencer has a quick recovery.

Defense is improving, which is a positive in my book. Meco is helping to kind of give this defense an identity. Mario is playing good defense but has a way to go still. Secondary needs improvement.

Carr should get one more chance. If he doesn't improve, put in Sage and leave him in.

Overall, I like where this teams heading. I wish to ***** that we would have won today, but they're improving. They pretty much beat themselves today. They had over 400 net yards and held Tenn. to 197. If I hadn't seen the game or heard the score and seen those stats, I would have thought Houston had won, but it shows you just how important it is to protect the ball. You can't win many games if you turn the ball over 5 times.

Kaiser Toro
10-29-2006, 08:13 PM
I was very optimistic for the future until I heard Carr would be starting next week. The defense continues to improve. The run game was there and in the second half I saw an NFL offense. Not sure what changes were made, but it looked pretty confident and we need to bottle that up.

DenverBorn
10-29-2006, 08:36 PM
Positive: Mario aside, 2006 was a great draft. Ryans, Spencer, Lundy, Daniels and Anderson are all guys on whom we can build a team. I hope we have similar success next year drafting at OT, LB and S

Negative: David Carr is not the guy to lead this team consistently to victories. It's time to admit that to ourselves and begin a transition plan. As I said on another thread, I'd move Sage to the starting job and look to draft a QB next year

thunderkyss
10-29-2006, 08:42 PM
We had a 100 yard rusher.... early in the third QTr IIRC..... Why were we passing so much?? They couldn't move the ball on our defense if we didn't hellp them.... I wonder how much of the decision making Kubiak was making in Denver.

That's another game we lost due to poor decision making by the coaching staff.

Kaiser Toro
10-29-2006, 08:47 PM
We had a 100 yard rusher.... early in the third QTr IIRC..... Why were we passing so much?? They couldn't move the ball on our defense if we didn't hellp them.... I wonder how much of the decision making Kubiak was making in Denver.

That's another game we lost due to poor decision making by the coaching staff.

The QB is the coach's conduit to the field of play. The mess of the first half and our history was due to the guy under center. Once we got Sage in there only AJ messed up a great offensive half with two huge mistakes and then the great pass cuaght in the end zone that was out of bounds.

Speedy
10-29-2006, 08:49 PM
First impression??

Yeah, Carr had a bad day, but Mr. Kubiak, if you're going to pull Carr for having that bad day then why not freaking Salaam? Was actually worried when he got injured but kinda wish he'd not come back this game. I mean Shephard gets pulled for his bad play you have to yank 74 too.

Speaking of Shephard, what happen to standing on the 10 yard line and anything past you, you let go? Stupid mistakes all day long.

Back to Kubiak. How about installing a freaking 2 minute offense sometime this decade? A total lack of urgency on the last TD drive. You need 2 TD's and the team huddles?? Can't even get that last play off before the 2 minute warning? What the hell? Well, that comes back to bite you when you get the ball back with 4 freaking seconds. Brilliant!!

And what was the deal with going for 2? You know, the coaching staff didn't have a good day either.

Andre Johnson...CATCH THE DAMN BALL!!!!!

That's my 1st impression. Freaking disgusted with the total lack of effort from this joke of a football team. Losing is one thing....freaking GIVING games away PISSES ME OFF!!!!

Trapped
10-29-2006, 08:50 PM
5 turnovers says it all. no team in the nfl will win with 5 turnovers.

Carr INT = lost 3 points even if the offense stalled
Carr fumble = lost 3 points
Carr's Fumble returned for td = 7 freebee points for the tacks
Andre dropped pass = short feild. eventual td.

we practically lost 6 points and gave them a touchdown. if we cut down the turnover to just one or a none a game. we win this easy.

SBTexans08
10-29-2006, 08:55 PM
5 turnovers says it all. no team in the nfl will win with 5 turnovers.

Sage almost made that possible...

Osso
10-29-2006, 08:55 PM
Horrible clock management in the 4th.

When will we institute the shotgun?

When will we institute a 2 minute drill?

I've coached...it's not that hard to institute these things.

Tulip
10-29-2006, 08:59 PM
What's a two-minute drill?

:hairpull:

TEXANRED
10-29-2006, 09:03 PM
My impressions........

Carr looked bad. No doubt. However out of the the seven games we have played he has looked bad in two of them so I am not ready to throw him under the bus just yet.

Johnson is a great receiver despite dropping the ball on third down.

Moulds is consistent. Well worth what we gave for him.

OD is a stud.

Lundy was terrible against Philly and great the last two games. Is he for real?

Mario Williams is looking better in each game. I think the light switch in his head is about to go off.

Ryans is the anchor. He is solid.

Faggins drastically improves our pass coverage. Once he gets his wind back we will at least have two good CB's.

We need Safeties who can cover. Where is Matt Stevens when you need him?

Are we playing the 52? Has anyone seen Orr? Someone put his face on the back of a milk carton and lets go looking for him.

I think we have a solid core to our football team. Carr, AJ, Emo, OD, Lundy, Williams, Ryans, Drob. A decent draft and a couple of key FA this team is going to become real good real quick.

We just look like a young team. One week we have a passing game and no running game. The next week we have a running game and no passing game. Once we find a way to put it all together we will be a dominant football team.

Texan1
10-29-2006, 09:03 PM
Positives:

The D looked good today for the most part. We got one lucky call on the long pass play in the 4th qtr that helped. How did the instant replay miss that one?

Good job running the football. Lundy had a nice game running and blocked at times well and at times just ok.

Sage came in and showed that he can be counted on. He also showed that Carr was at least partly to blame for the poor offensive play earlier in the game.

Negatives:

Carr couldn't handle the pressure from the pass rush today. He either had happy feet and shut down his vision - or he tried to scramble and didnít protect the ball. He was rightfully benched for not protecting the ball.

Salaam was horrific today. Why wasnít he benched with Carr? He was partly to blame for Carr's issues due to the fact he hardly blocked today. If he ever has a game like this again - the coaches should insert Winston and never look back.

Our D looks better, but still has issues in the S-FS area. CC Brown was burned again today with the TD over the middle. That was his man to step to.

Coaches should get a pat on the back for benching Carr and a kick in the b#tt for not benching Salaam.

Bongo59
10-29-2006, 09:10 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"5 turnovers says it all. no team in the nfl will win with 5 turnovers."


I guess you missed the Chi AZ Monday nighter....................

thunderkyss
10-29-2006, 09:12 PM
I'd like to see us employ more of the same sets we used with Sage late in the game and give Carr a little more to work with. He has improved, but we will never see how much he has improved with the shackles on him.

Still a number of wins on the table here this year. Looking ahead, we need a more viable third wide receiver and obviously offensive line help.

great post....... very good.

I'm not in the locker room. I don't have Kubiak's # on my speed dial, so this will be me making stuff up.

But I believe the reason for the differences in the offensive sets is for the same reason our offense has appeared to get simpler and simpler as the years went on.

Not only are we in a lot of 2 reciever sets, but we usually have those two on the same side. & when they aren't on the same side, the patterns run to the same side of the field.

When I play Madden, the game is way to fast for me. Regardless how many times I run a play, or how many times I play the same team, it's just too fast for me. I pick plays where I have at least two options on one side of the field. If those two options are covered, I throw to the third option on the other side of the field...... I usually don't even look. I just know that I got to get the ball out, and chances are slim that all three receivers are covered..

well, it works for me, but that's a video game.

Crazyhorse
10-29-2006, 09:42 PM
Liked what I saw from Eric Winston. He played real steady and didn't jump the count. Saalam killed two drives that way. In the second period when Saalam got hurt Winston came in and was solid as we moved the ball down field. We get inside the 20 and they bring Saalam back and motion penalty to kill the drive. This kid can do the job it's time to let him play.
You can't win a race with a lame horse, and our starting tackles are lame......

Brazos-V
10-29-2006, 09:43 PM
Vince's numbers were putrid for a NFL quarterback 7-15 for 87 yards is pathetic for a NFL quarterback. He will not be a top notch NFL quarterback. Yes he threw a TD to a guy who wasn't covered at all. (very similiar to the balls he threw in the Rose Bowl).

Huh....putrid is strong word...I prefer decent. 87QB rating for his performance. That to me says decent.

Carr on the other hand....Hmmmmmm I'm curious what you would rate his performance as? 64QB rating.

You don't have to throw for over 200yds to be an effective QB.

goodnews boy
10-29-2006, 10:09 PM
Huh....putrid is strong word...I prefer decent. 87QB rating for his performance. That to me says decent.

Carr on the other hand....Hmmmmmm I'm curious what you would rate his performance as? 64QB rating.

You don't have to throw for over 200yds to be an effective QB.

Dude 7/15 for 87yds How can you say that good. With my old fat behind I can throw that. He didn't have a good game. WE KILLED OURSELVES!! Or at least Carr did it:brickwall

Ibar_Harry
10-29-2006, 10:44 PM
I said this repeatedly during the game on the frustration links! I don't think I'll do that again. Not really for the serious thinkers, more the kneejerk negative Nancys. But here goes:

I am VERY upset at the formational packages that we use offensively. When David Carr was in the game, we were consistently in one and two wide receiver sets. There were times on third and four or five when we had two tight ends, a fullback and AJ on the field. NO teams in the NFL deploy this kind of nonsense.

For the better part of the 1st half, we had two wide receivers to the left side and ran nothing but fades and hitches. Six and seven yard dumps. Nothing vertical. No crossing routes. No digs. No curls. No outs.

Salaam could not block my grandmother and yet our running backs were chipping the frontside and then getting out into pattern for two to five yard dumps. Nothing downfield and no help with our backs. The one time our backs stayed in was when EVERYONE stayed in and AJ ran a drag on playaction. This was Carr's INT. Here is a detailed version of the problems of the play. Football knowledgable folks will see where I am coming from.

Playaction passes work when you sell the run. At that point in the game, the Texans had run three times for 11 yards. Hardly selling the run. The fake went to the right and Carr was trying to throwback to his left. AJ ran a crossing route and his was the only route on the play. Hope was the DB to the left who came underneath the route and picked off the pass. There was no route to hold Hope, so he dropped back.

Carr has a tendency to force the ball, especially to AJ. If I am an OC for the Texans, why would I draw up a play where AJ is the only option on the play? How can you run a crossing route that does not have anyone holding or occupying the corner on the left side? If the tight end to the left simply releases into the flat on a delay, Hope jumps that route and the play is a completion. The safety was over the top and the other two defenders were trailing AJ by 3-5 yards

When Sage came into the game, our formations immediately changed. The fullback went to the bench and we were in three and four wides. We ran the ball successfully out of one back. We threw the ball well. We also protected better. Some folks mentioned that Sage was better in the pocket than Carr. Carr didn't have a pocket. When you dink and dunk, defenses come at you and the Titans came after Carr. The Texans did not protect Carr at all.

The Denver Broncos run game and their zone game is a one back scheme. When you bring a fullback into the mix, he determines where the play is going. Linebackers flow like crazy to the point of attack and it bastardizes the zone.

Defensively, we were better at times. I would like to see Mario on the field more often. I don't buy into the rotation of the entire defensive line. We aren't the Philadelphia Eagles and there is no need for Mario to be on the bench. He played well today and was explosive off the ball.

The Texans did Tennessee a favor with sell out blitzes. No need for it. Why send house with a guy who can scramble? There was very little in terms of disguising the blitzes either to confuse Young, who is easily confused and who forces balls. Our DBs aren't the best in man-to-man coverage and were exposed far to often.

Vince's numbers were putrid for a NFL quarterback 7-15 for 87 yards is pathetic for a NFL quarterback. He will not be a top notch NFL quarterback. Yes he threw a TD to a guy who wasn't covered at all. (very similiar to the balls he threw in the Rose Bowl). He did scramble into the end zone when the Texans got out of their rush lanes on a blitz while Mario dropped off into coverage to spy the flat to the side the blitz came from! Stupid! If you bring the house from the right side with all of your linebackers, then you drop your DEnd from the other side to spy.

Our punt returners stunk and killed us in field position. AJ needed to show some better hands on the INT.

I'd like to see us employ more of the same sets we used with Sage late in the game and give Carr a little more to work with. He has improved, but we will never see how much he has improved with the shackles on him.

Still a number of wins on the table here this year. Looking ahead, we need a more viable third wide receiver and obviously offensive line help.

Excellent and I might add Carr took a heck of a shot to the back on the last fumble. He looked very mechanical to me during most of the game. When Daniels juggled the ball on the 3rd down conversion when it was 0 to 0, I said there was the game. That was when the momentum changed and it was downhill from there. Daniels made some nice chatches, but that was unfortunately the biggest moment in the game.

The O-line is in extememly bad shape. I still firmly believe we need Wand in the worst way. Doubt it will happen, but they should be doing everything they can to get him back.

edo783
10-29-2006, 11:23 PM
We dominated this game big time, but if you have a -5 turn over ratio and a boatload of penalties, your not going to win in the NFL. In fact if you lose the turn over battle by only 2, you will lose the game 90% of the time. We blew this game pure and simple. Lots of folks contributed to it by poor play, but Carrs play set the tone and caused the downward spiral of turn overs.

Malloy
10-30-2006, 06:48 AM
And what was the deal with going for 2? You know, the coaching staff didn't have a good day either.



Math. If Houston had gotten the two points they could allow the Titans to make a FG and STILL tie the game with a TD.

Buffi2
10-30-2006, 08:46 AM
We beat ourselves - pure and simple. Even in spite of that I do see improvement and that gives me hope. Not for NYG -but eventually.

No NFL team can overcome all of the turnovers/penalties/and QB in some kind of emotional state and still win - yet we came close at the end, which says something positive.

Why Salaam was allowed to stay in the game is beyond me. His performance was inexcusable. I was disappointed in Shepherd - I thought he was coming along nicely but obviously I was wrong.

Carr's emotional state effects the whole team. When he goes into happy feet, force plays, nervous nelly mode - the entire team gets "jumpy" for lack of a better word. If he can ever overcome this, he will be a good QB. I think that is one of the reasons they did better under Sage - a calm, methodical, let's get this done approach helped get a rhythm going - something Carr was unable to do. Kudos to Kubiak for pulling Carr - hopefully, it will help DC get a grip.

Having said that, our o-line needs some help which affects Carr's state of mind - a vicious circle.

Our defense is improving with each game although we do still need some help in key areas.

I don't understand why we don't have a 2 minute drill down and I don't understand some of the coaching calls.

For this loss, I think there is enough blame to go around for everyone...from poor coaching at times to AJ's dropped passes to David "bless his heart" Carr's fumbles.

It is nice to have a logical, thoughtful thread rather than the emotional negatives that make a person want to put whiskey in their morning coffee.

Texans Horror
10-30-2006, 08:53 AM
Excellent and I might add Carr took a heck of a shot to the back on the last fumble. He looked very mechanical to me during most of the game. When Daniels juggled the ball on the 3rd down conversion when it was 0 to 0, I said there was the game. That was when the momentum changed and it was downhill from there. Daniels made some nice chatches, but that was unfortunately the biggest moment in the game.

The O-line is in extememly bad shape. I still firmly believe we need Wand in the worst way. Doubt it will happen, but they should be doing everything they can to get him back.

That o-line sucks. They've been getting by for the past few weeks, but it's really showing through. I expect future opponents to really take advantages of our pathetic tackle situation.

Speedy
10-30-2006, 03:58 PM
Math. If Houston had gotten the two points they could allow the Titans to make a FG and STILL tie the game with a TD.

Uh...math says that if the Titans have the ball long enough to score a FG, the game was over if they made a 1st down. Going for 2 there made no difference. Houston had to recover the onside kick for any chance to win after they scored the TD. Otherwise Tennessee runs the clock out on a first down, or takes it to 4 seconds if they go 3 and out.

Malloy
10-30-2006, 05:02 PM
Uh...math says that if the Titans have the ball long enough to score a FG, the game was over if they made a 1st down. Going for 2 there made no difference. Houston had to recover the onside kick for any chance to win after they scored the TD. Otherwise Tennessee runs the clock out on a first down, or takes it to 4 seconds if they go 3 and out.

They did have enough time to go 3 and out AND Houston got the ball back. The scenario is not so far-fatched as you may think.

Yankee_In_TX
10-30-2006, 05:49 PM
Shouldn't you be paying attention to Moll?

TexansSeminole
10-30-2006, 06:14 PM
My other observation is that the Texans look a lot like the Oilers of the mid to late 80's (before they started winning). I was sitting there watching the game thinking "I've seen this before...."

Proof that history repeats itself.

Speedy
10-30-2006, 06:15 PM
They did have enough time to go 3 and out AND Houston got the ball back. The scenario is not so far-fatched as you may think.What the hell are you talking about? They DID go 3 and out and Houston got the ball back with 4 seconds left.

The 2 point conversion was meaningless because the Texans only had one TO, and had the Titans made just a 1st down the game was over. There wasn't enough time to allow the Titans to kick a FG and still be within 7, because the game was over if they make a 1st down.

run-david-run
10-30-2006, 06:23 PM
We had a 100 yard rusher.... early in the third QTr IIRC..... Why were we passing so much?? They couldn't move the ball on our defense if we didn't hellp them.... I wonder how much of the decision making Kubiak was making in Denver.

That's another game we lost due to poor decision making by the coaching staff.
Being down 21-3 might have had something to do with our passing. The one aspect I thought the coaching staff failed was that horrible attempt at a 2-minute drill before the half where we didnt commit to going for it, but didnt run the ball. We basically said "lets see what happens if we kinda try to score, but not really". Of course that leaves us at midfield with about 15 seconds and a TO, not a realistic scoring chance, but one that makes look bad if we run out the clock, this results in the fumble and me thorwing the remote to the ground and turning off the TV. I really wish we would just commit to trying to score, after all the D had only given up one TD, trust your players!

TexansSeminole
10-30-2006, 06:23 PM
There were times on third and four or five when we had two tight ends, a fullback and AJ on the field. NO teams in the NFL deploy this kind of nonsense.

That would mean that there are 7 offensive lineman...are you sure you saw what you say?

run-david-run
10-30-2006, 06:29 PM
That o-line sucks. They've been getting by for the past few weeks, but it's really showing through. I expect future opponents to really take advantages of our pathetic tackle situation.

Strahan and Umenyura next week..oh boy, get the ice pack ready for David.

Malloy
10-30-2006, 06:39 PM
What the hell are you talking about? They DID go 3 and out and Houston got the ball back with 4 seconds left.

The 2 point conversion was meaningless because the Texans only had one TO, and had the Titans made just a 1st down the game was over. There wasn't enough time to allow the Titans to kick a FG and still be within 7, because the game was over if they make a 1st down.

If they had returned to ball a bit further on the kick-off they could have been in FG-distance instead of punting the ball on their last 3-and-out.

Osso
10-30-2006, 06:49 PM
Houston Texans at 02:31
1-10-HOU20 (2:31) PENALTY on HST-E.Salaam, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at HST 20 - No Play.
1-15-HOU15 (2:29) W.Lundy up the middle to HST 20 for 5 yards (D.Thornton, R.Starks).
2-10-HOU20 (2:00) D.Carr pass short right to O.Daniels to HST 37 for 17 yards (A.Jones).
1-10-HOU37 (1:31) W.Lundy right tackle to HST 42 for 5 yards (A.Jones).
2-5-HOU42 (1:13) D.Carr pass short middle to O.Daniels to HST 49 for 7 yards (C.Finnegan, D.Thornton).
1-10-HOU49 (:51) D.Carr pass incomplete deep left to E.Moulds.
PENALTY on HST-Z.Wiegert, Illegal Use of Hands, 10 yards, enforced at HST 49 - No Play.
1-20-HOU39 (:51) D.Carr pass incomplete short left to A.Johnson (C.Finnegan).
2-20-HOU39 (:47) W.Lundy up the middle to HST 46 for 7 yards (C.Hope, C.Finnegan).
3-13-HOU46 (:18) D.Carr sacked at HST 39 for -7 yards (K.Vanden Bosch). FUMBLES (K.Vanden Bosch), RECOVERED by TEN-T.Brown at HST 40. T.Brown for 40 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

WTF are we doing running the ball 3 seperate times while in a 2 minute drill? in the 1st minute of this drive we only ran 3 plays. In the next minute we ran 5....We need to really look at wtf we are doing with our clock management as well as our play calling.
Some one please just shoot me.

TexansSeminole
10-30-2006, 07:11 PM
Houston Texans at 02:31
1-10-HOU20 (2:31) PENALTY on HST-E.Salaam, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at HST 20 - No Play.
1-15-HOU15 (2:29) W.Lundy up the middle to HST 20 for 5 yards (D.Thornton, R.Starks).
2-10-HOU20 (2:00) D.Carr pass short right to O.Daniels to HST 37 for 17 yards (A.Jones).
1-10-HOU37 (1:31) W.Lundy right tackle to HST 42 for 5 yards (A.Jones).
2-5-HOU42 (1:13) D.Carr pass short middle to O.Daniels to HST 49 for 7 yards (C.Finnegan, D.Thornton).
1-10-HOU49 (:51) D.Carr pass incomplete deep left to E.Moulds.
PENALTY on HST-Z.Wiegert, Illegal Use of Hands, 10 yards, enforced at HST 49 - No Play.
1-20-HOU39 (:51) D.Carr pass incomplete short left to A.Johnson (C.Finnegan).
2-20-HOU39 (:47) W.Lundy up the middle to HST 46 for 7 yards (C.Hope, C.Finnegan).
3-13-HOU46 (:18) D.Carr sacked at HST 39 for -7 yards (K.Vanden Bosch). FUMBLES (K.Vanden Bosch), RECOVERED by TEN-T.Brown at HST 40. T.Brown for 40 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

WTF are we doing running the ball 3 seperate times while in a 2 minute drill? in the 1st minute of this drive we only ran 3 plays. In the next minute we ran 5....We need to really look at wtf we are doing with our clock management as well as our play calling.
Some one please just shoot me.


I'm sorry but you are dumb if you think running the ball on this drive is the problem here. First, we have a false start penalty, and that puts us back at our OWN 15. First run gets us a 2-10 at our OWN 20. Getting five yards in this situation is good. The first run ran 29 seconds off the clock. The next pass play goes for 17 yards and also burns 29 seconds off the clock. The next play is a run and it gets us 5 yards and a 2-5 situation as we move up the field. This run play only burns 18 seconds off the clock. The next pass play gets us 7 yards and a first down up to midfield. This pass play runs off 22 seconds. The next play is an incomplete pass but it doesn't matter because there is holding on the play and we lose 10 yards. We move back into our own territory in a 1-20 situation. We then throw an incomplete pass so we are in a 2-20 sitation. This is a bad situation to be in especially in your own territory. The next play is a run play for 7 yards that gets us into a 3-13 situation. This play runs off 29 seconds, but on the next 3-13 play David Carr is sacked an fumbles the ball, allowing Tennessee to pick it up and run it in for a touchdown. The play calling was working but penalties kill you and I think Kubiak was doing a great job of calling plays to get down field. It took him 40 seconds to move from our own 15 to the 50 yard line, using no timeouts. And then for your QB to fumble when there is 18 seconds left in the half. Running the ball is on the short list of things that didn't go wrong on this drive.

Nza
10-30-2006, 07:15 PM
That's my 1st impression. Freaking disgusted with the total lack of effort from this joke of a football team. Losing is one thing....freaking GIVING games away PISSES ME OFF!!!!

What the hell is it with you Texans fans and admitting when you were out played? Almost every single post I see here seems to suggest the Texans were robbed or something, or that the Titans won some 1 in a 1000000 game. The only hint of game being given away came when the Titans almost let a backup QB beat them through the air mid way through the 3rd and beyond while relaxing with what they thought was a good enough lead combined with a crappy vanilla defensive scheme.

Where exactly did the Texans give the game away? When they were down 21-3? When they "let" KVB get 4 (oops I mean 2) sacks? When they threw two interceptions? When they were burnt by a 53 yard punt return TD by a top NFL returner? when they "let" a fumble be returned for a TD? it's called being outplayed by the better team on the day - deal with it. You don't turn the ball over 0 times while taking it away 5 times and win a game because it was given to you - but you DO turn the ball over 5 times and take the ball 0 times and almost win because a game was almost given to you.

Osso
10-30-2006, 07:21 PM
I'm sorry but you are dumb if you think running the ball on this drive is the problem here.

Don't be sorry..I think you're a *****. We both have 2 different ideas on how a 2 minute drill should be ran.

And Nza...come on man look at the stats of the game....We beat ourselves...it's ok you can admit it too.

Nza
10-30-2006, 07:27 PM
Every team that loses in the history of the NFL "beat themselves". Every loss can be attributed to errors, that's part of why you lost. The other part is because the other team didn't commit the same errors, and took advantage of yours. It's called playing better on the day, and winning.

Texan1
10-30-2006, 07:37 PM
Liked what I saw from Eric Winston. He played real steady and didn't jump the count. Saalam killed two drives that way. In the second period when Saalam got hurt Winston came in and was solid as we moved the ball down field. We get inside the 20 and they bring Saalam back and motion penalty to kill the drive. This kid can do the job it's time to let him play.
You can't win a race with a lame horse, and our starting tackles are lame......

Agreed. Sherman couldn't have been paying attention to his onlie to close or else he would have pulled Salaam. I'm not impressed Sherman's in game O line managment...

UTVinceYoung
10-30-2006, 07:40 PM
Every team that loses in the history of the NFL "beat themselves". Every loss can be attributed to errors, that's part of why you lost. The other part is because the other team didn't commit the same errors, and took advantage of yours. It's called playing better on the day, and winning.

I definitely agree with that. I don't think you're going to get some of the Texan fans to agree.

Sour grapes anyone?

Osso
10-30-2006, 08:02 PM
I agree you made less mistakes and we made more, leading to our loss....mmmk?

Speedy
10-30-2006, 09:25 PM
What the hell is it with you Texans fans and admitting when you were out played? Almost every single post I see here seems to suggest the Texans were robbed or something, or that the Titans won some 1 in a 1000000 game. The only hint of game being given away came when the Titans almost let a backup QB beat them through the air mid way through the 3rd and beyond while relaxing with what they thought was a good enough lead combined with a crappy vanilla defensive scheme.

Where exactly did the Texans give the game away? When they were down 21-3? When they "let" KVB get 4 (oops I mean 2) sacks? When they threw two interceptions? When they were burnt by a 53 yard punt return TD by a top NFL returner? when they "let" a fumble be returned for a TD? it's called being outplayed by the better team on the day - deal with it. You don't turn the ball over 0 times while taking it away 5 times and win a game because it was given to you - but you DO turn the ball over 5 times and take the ball 0 times and almost win because a game was almost given to you.If you don't think teams give away games, you haven't been watching for very long. Philadelphia, Washington, Indy flat out kicked our butts. Yesterday, the Texans dominated the game and continuously shot themselves in the foot, with an INT here, a fumble there, here a dropped ball everywhere a false start.....When they quit making mistakes, they almost came back and took the game from you.

Enjoy your win. See you in December.

thunderkyss
10-30-2006, 09:53 PM
my second thoughts about the game:

First I want to say that we have some fair weather fans..... fair weather Carr fans at that, and you should be ashamed of yourselves. All of you guys who started your "criticism" about Carr, since yesterday, with "I've defended him, but after today I can't" should feel the worst.

I just re-watched the first half, and he didn't have his worse game of the year, far from it. It might have been his best game of the year.

Now before I get too much into it, I want to say if you share Vinny's opinion of Carr & his play, then you're right, he's still that same guy, and he had a poor game based on what Vinny, and guys like Vinny want to see.

But if you thought he has been playing well this season, and showing great improvement, and having a heck of a year, yesterday was a very good day for David Carr.

One of the things I noticed about David, Starting with the preseason games, after he got sacked, his footwork got all screwed up. Before the sack, he would stride back, every step the same, he'd have a rhythm, a gallop..... the spacing of his feet would be the same, his steps would follow a cadence. but after a sack.... that would go away. sometimes he'd cross his feet, sometimes he wouldn't. sometimes they'd open shoulder width, sometimes wider, sometimes shorter. It was like he was anxious, and his mind was telling him to do one thing, and his body wanted to do something else.

That stopped at around the Washington game..... & in the first half, against the Titans, it was still gone. KVB sacked him three times before the half(only one counted) & he was hit several times.... but his feet looked good.

I think it was the Indy game that I saw improvement in his willingness to look downfield as he was getting hit. Again, in Miami, he was doing very well looking downfield, as he was getting hit. Against Tennessee, he was looking downfield as he was getting hit. Remember that INT.... he got hit at the knees right after he let the ball go(he never should have let that ball go) & there was no flag even though that hit was worse than the KVB low blow.

Remember the play that David ran for like 8 yards, and he pump faked the ball to freeze the defender, then dove head first?? Well before all that, he did his perfect little 5 step drop, looking down field. I think it was Wiegarts guy who after he was ran around Carr came back to Carr from his left.... Carr takes a step to the right, never taking his sights from downfield. he then steps to the right a couple of more steps, then decides to take off down field.

Then there was that ball he drilled into the dirt, for no apparent reason. Well that apparent reason was a big Defensive end in his face. He hit his elbow on the guys helmet as he threw the ball, hence the sharp drop straight to the ground.


He didn't stretch the field by throwing the ball deep. But he didn't really do that in any of the other games......... shure, he threw the Jumpball to AJ in the Jax game, & he threw that beautiful bomb to Aj in the Washington game, and he got AJ on the one against Philly. & those were good throws... but one or two a game doesn't stretch the field. So if you were happy with Carr's down field throws before this game, you should have no problems with his refusal( I call it refusal, I don't have proof that you'd believe, but I call it refusal) to throw the ball down field in this game. He usually waits till the 4th Qtr, when he has no other choice....

He did fumble the ball twice, but if you think he had a good game against INdy, Washington, & Miami, then you should have no problem with Sunday's game. He fumbled the ball at least twice in those games, only none of them were returned for touchdowns.

He basically had the same game yesterday that he's been having all year. I just don't understand why soooo many Carr lovers all of a sudden flipped.

Nza
10-30-2006, 10:12 PM
If you don't think teams give away games, you haven't been watching for very long. Philadelphia, Washington, Indy flat out kicked our butts. Yesterday, the Texans dominated the game and continuously shot themselves in the foot, with an INT here, a fumble there, here a dropped ball everywhere a false start.....When they quit making mistakes, they almost came back and took the game from you.

Enjoy your win. See you in December.

Teams can only give away games that their opponents are able to take. Did the Cardinals give away their MNF game? Not entirely - the Bears defense and ST met them halfway with some huge plays.

The Texans made a lot of mistakes and met half way with the Titans mistake free day. If the Titans didn't play mistake free, they likely would have lost. Therefore, the Titans won the game because they played better football on the day. The game wasn't handed to them - they still had to play good football to win it, and they did that.

As I said, mistakes are why teams lose 99% of the time. That isn't an excuse for "giving the game away". The Texans played poorly and a better performance may have lead to a win, but that doesn't mean they gave the game away to an undeserving opponent.

BTW, why do you think the Texans "dominated"? Because they had the ball more and racked up more yards and TOP? Yeah, you get that when you start with short field position due to 5 take aways, and give up an offensive possession on a punt return TD. Sorry, but yards and TOP don't equate to domination, scoring and playing mistake free football is domination, both of which the Titans lead in. I'm not trying to rub anything in, I don't get satisfaction from tormenting fans we beat when it's likely only going to be one of our few wins this season, but i've never seen a fanbase so relucant to admit they were beaten by another football team. You don't have to beat a team 40-10 and out yardage them 3:1 to be the better team on the day.