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View Full Version : Whitlock of KC Star: Worst team in the league"?


texans3422
09-27-2004, 10:56 AM
What's this guy smoking? How about Arizona or San Fran?

If Vermeil's Chiefs can't figure out a way to beat Houston, quite possibly the worst team in the league, it's difficult to imagine KC having much success against Ray and Jamal Lewis.

Houston quarterback David Carr tried to hand this game to the Chiefs. He threw wildly. He panicked in the pocket. He wasted timeouts. Carr's coach, Dom Capers, had so little confidence in his QB that he drained the clock and settled for a game-winning 49-yard field goal rather than risk Carr making a mistake.

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/football/nfl/kansas_city_chiefs/9768150.htm?1c

Scooter
09-27-2004, 11:05 AM
it was hard to argue before this week. we have yet to really prove ourselves and we opened this season with losses to the chargers & lions. two teams who also can be considered the worst. but we're not the ones that are 0-3 so we're not as bad as the worst defense in football (kc) apparently.

Hervoyel
09-27-2004, 11:35 AM
I don't think this guy's smoking anything. I think he's right. We are quite possibly the worst team in the league. Keep in mind that the season is exactly 3 games old when you think about that. In week 1 the Chargers were unanimously chosen "Worst team in the league" and we lost to them AND looked bad doing it. Then we followed that up with a lousy showing at Detroit. We didn't exactly light the world on fire in K.C. either.

The Texans are candidates for WTITL until they prove otherwise just like several other teams that got off to a slow start. Getting to 2-2 would be a step in the right direction. If we can pull even then that would probably take us out of the running for now.

That whole "Respect" thing that gets tossed up here weekly isn't something we deserve yet. Hopefully soon it will be.

Keldar
09-27-2004, 12:05 PM
[QUOTE=texans3422]Houston quarterback David Carr tried to hand this game to the Chiefs. He threw wildly. He panicked in the pocket. He wasted timeouts. Carr's coach, Dom Capers, had so little confidence in his QB that he drained the clock and settled for a game-winning 49-yard field goal rather than risk Carr making a mistake.

Unfortunately, this is close to being the brutal truth.

Again though, memo to O-line........PROTECT YOUR QB!!!!!!!!

Speedy
09-27-2004, 12:14 PM
KC has Baltimore, Atlanta, Jags, and Colts in their next 4 games. They've got a good shot at being 0-7 going into week 9 against the Bucs.

WWJD
09-27-2004, 12:17 PM
I think the Chiefs will beat both the Falcons and the Jags. Neither team scores much, the Chiefs are much better offensively and I look for them to rebound.

Ibar_Harry
09-27-2004, 01:19 PM
I think any team with the kicker we have is not going to chance anything but a field goal with seconds remaining on the clock and you can win the ball game by kicking. That is the way NFL football is played. You don't give the opposition a chance. I thought Carr played very well, and so did our team, in the 4th Qtr. His comments are a bunch of sour grapes. Carr and Houston are just beginning to may be put it together. No comments about AJ, Gaffny and Armstrong. Yea, we didn't run the ball like we are suppose to and that's why we won the game. We did best what we do best, not what is best for the opposition.

sensei
09-27-2004, 01:35 PM
What's this guy smoking? How about Arizona or San Fran?


Houston quarterback David Carr tried to hand this game to the Chiefs. He threw wildly. He panicked in the pocket. He wasted timeouts. Carr's coach, Dom Capers, had so little confidence in his QB that he drained the clock and settled for a game-winning 49-yard field goal rather than risk Carr making a mistake.

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/football/nfl/kansas_city_chiefs/9768150.htm?1c


As much as I hate to admit it, This is pretty much the truth. I am as pro Carr as anyone. But, It is time for him to grow up and show the "third year is the year it all comes together" mantra we always hear.

No complaints about how the field goal situation was handled. I would have run the clock down a bit more I think.

sensei

chuckm
09-27-2004, 01:44 PM
I think any team with the kicker we have is not going to chance anything but a field goal with seconds remaining on the clock and you can win the ball game by kicking. That is the way NFL football is played. You don't give the opposition a chance.


I agree 100% .... if Capers had used the same strategy last year against New England then Brown would've had a shot at a 52- 55 yard field goal for the win. Instead he ran a sweep and lost 5 yards effectively pushing us out of field goal range. While 50+ yard field goals are far from automatic and admittedly all this is hindsight, Brown has been as accurate as anyone from long range.

gwallaia
09-27-2004, 01:51 PM
Carr had been sacked 3 times prior to the gamewinning kick and had been pressured countless times.

ANother sack and they would have been out of field goal range.

jacquescas
09-27-2004, 01:54 PM
plus we were set up for the win, the most i would do is runn a quick slant over the middle, or another run. but we were in range.

El Tejano
09-27-2004, 01:58 PM
As much as I hate to admit it, This is pretty much the truth. I am as pro Carr as anyone. But, It is time for him to grow up and show the "third year is the year it all comes together" mantra we always hear.

No complaints about how the field goal situation was handled. I would have run the clock down a bit more I think.

sensei
Let's not forget that Carr made the right plays on the TD drive and he completed some very crucial 3rd and longs on the way to our FG.

As for Capers, I think this was one of the better games he had making the proper player adjustments on defense and making sure that if we missed the FG, there wouldn't be much time for KC to come back and kick one for themselves.

Dick Vermeil also complained about the umps. We have too but man, you can't get mad when you decided not to take the 3 points. You should've been able to convert the 4th down with Holmes at RB too.

Lucky
09-27-2004, 02:03 PM
I agree 100% .... if Capers had used the same strategy last year against New England then Brown would've had a shot at a 52- 55 yard field goal for the win...
Great point. Coaches can learn from their mistakes, too.

Carr did make some wild throws. He flushed out of the pocket early a couple of times. He wasted 1 timeout (the same number as Vermeil). But, he failed to mention that David burned the Chief secondary with some big plays downfield and a huge 3rd & 17 conversion. But, that wouldn't have made his point that the Chiefs are terrible in the clutch and their Super Bowl aspirations have been flushed.

Whitlock also doesn't bring up that if the Texans called the Chiefs after this season about a trade for David Carr, there's not a player KC wouldn't give up to get him. After week 2, the Texans were a candidate for worst team in the league. After week 3, KC is. Which team is on the rise & which team is on the skids? Enjoy the rebuilding years, Jason.

done88
09-27-2004, 02:33 PM
I don't think this guy's smoking anything. I think he's right. We are quite possibly the worst team in the league. Keep in mind that the season is exactly 3 games old when you think about that. In week 1 the Chargers were unanimously chosen "Worst team in the league" and we lost to them AND looked bad doing it. Then we followed that up with a lousy showing at Detroit. We didn't exactly light the world on fire in K.C. either.

The Texans are candidates for WTITL until they prove otherwise just like several other teams that got off to a slow start. Getting to 2-2 would be a step in the right direction. If we can pull even then that would probably take us out of the running for now.

That whole "Respect" thing that gets tossed up here weekly isn't something we deserve yet. Hopefully soon it will be.

The truth is we are 1-2 and there are teams that are 0-3. Therefore we are not in the running for the worst team and neither is any other team with a win. The Chiefs can complain all they want two but stats wise going into that game the offense was top 10 and the defense was not far behind. The Texans lost the turnover battle and therefore lost the early games. This time turnovers were even and they won. The better team won yesterday's game and the Texans will continue to win games where they win the turnover battle. Its the teams that win the turnover battle and still lose that are bad. The Jags will come down the Titans will win a few more and the Texans will end up 8-8.

Go somewhere else to bash the Texans. As a moderator you have a responsablity not to bash them here.

wags
09-27-2004, 02:42 PM
Worst team in the league: Miami Dolphins
Franchise in chaos: Miami Dolphins
Quarterback controversy: Miami Dolphins
Shady Owner: Miami Dolphins

Vinny
09-27-2004, 02:43 PM
Go somewhere else to bash the Texans. As a moderator you have a responsablity not to bash them here.Moderators don't give up their right to state their opinion. This isn't a cheer-club. Mods are simply members of this forum as you are. They just help keep the peace and enforce the rules. We are all equals here.

J-Man
09-27-2004, 02:55 PM
Go somewhere else to bash the Texans. As a moderator you have a responsablity not to bash them here.


Done88...that's an untrue statement and shot at a guy who is definetly Pro-Texan and calls them like he sees them. Hervoyel (or any moderator) is perfectly in bounds by making those statments, now I don't necessarily agree with all of them...BUT he is entitled to those opinons.

Like I said, I don't know that I agree with it, but he does back up his statements with valid points.

Hervoyel
09-27-2004, 03:02 PM
Thank You Vinny.

Done88 I'm not bashing the Texans. I'm saying that they:

a) Have not played well in the three games we've seen to date. Is there anyone here who cares to debate this?

b) Were in fact beaten by the team that was universally proclaimed to be the worst team in the league prior to the start of the 2004 season. Again, would anyone like to discuss whether or not this actually happened with an eye towards taking the "no it did not happen" side? I'm pretty sure I saw the Chargers beat the Texans in week 1.

c) Did not charge out to a 3-0 start by defeating all of their opponents by a 20+ point margin. Doing something like this would put them in the running for "Best team in the league" right now. As it stands they (along with a lot of other teams) are under .500 and so they are at the very least a candidate for the worst team in the league title.

Now item "c" completely misses the point which is that after 3 games it's pretty hard to decide that one team is the "Worst team in the league". You haven't played enough football yet for someone to have THE very worst record in football or be statistically all that far behind. The Jaguars might be the worst scoring offense in football but they're 3-0 right now so only scoring 35 points in their first 3 games doesn't tell you much about them.

SESupergenius
09-27-2004, 03:51 PM
Moderators have been very good so far. You can definitly stir it up with them as long as you don't go overboard.

In my opinion we beat a team that was backup up against the wall just like a cat. they came out swinging with all they had and we beat them, on their own turf even. I think that said a lot for the heart of this team, especially coming back they did. We beat a pretty good football team today that needed a win. We have our struggles, but we overcame them. I can say how glad I was to see the offense come back like that after the defense got them back in the game, that was a total team effort. It was about time the Texans staff let the players make playes instead of dinking and doing too much. Kudos to AJ and Carr.

Demon
09-27-2004, 05:23 PM
It seems a little "ODD" that some folks can diss the team when they have just won a road game. That's not easy, especially in KC where almost 80,000 fans show up very loud. It wasn't picture perfect, but we proved we can win and on the road. Let's see what next week brings. Another W and we can feel good about the Texans coming around. I don't think some are giving the Texans a snowball's chance of being a decent team. Too early to say that I think. lol:

Hervoyel
09-27-2004, 05:30 PM
I can totally agree with that SES. The Texans one truly great accomplishment from Sunday was that they just kept hanging in there. They weren't having a good day on offense, they weren't having a good day on defense. Their Special Teams weren't as bad as they had been in Detroit but they weren't anything "special" either. The Texans just kept plugging away and refused to let the Chiefs pull away from them. In the second half I think the Chiefs started feeling the pressure of just not being able to ditch these guys and get a good lead built up. They were supposed to win this one so all of the real pressure was on them. I feel like the Texans came out pretty tight and were putting a lot of pressure on themselves after the first two games and all the mistakes. By hanging in there they overcame it.

THAT I'm completely proud of. THAT is the team that kept coming back for more in 2002 and 2003. They showed up two games later than usual but at least they came to the dance right?

Speedy
09-27-2004, 06:20 PM
Just goes to show you, it's not a game about stats, it's a game about making plays. The Texans made the plays they had to to win. The Chiefs didn't.

Texansbacker
09-27-2004, 06:52 PM
I am just glad that the team showed some life, especially on defense and especially in the fourth quarter. Seth Payne appeared, slow, but began to show his talent towards the end and should round nicely into shape...Gary Walker too.....and even Robaire Smith with the big blocked pass.

Add in the exciting play of Peek and the solid if not spectacular play of Dunta Robinson and to a lesser extent Glenn Earl and we should have a defense that continues to get better.

After 3 games, our Texans have a ways to go, but they have proven they have them means to get there along with the will and the heart. Now it is up to them to get there and us (the fans) to the playoffs.

Right now however, I will settle for a second win in a row just so Carr can have a haircut! Oakland will be tough if they look like they did against Tampa on Sunday night.

Hervoyel
09-27-2004, 07:05 PM
Oakland will be tough if they look like they did against Tampa on Sunday night.

They won't look like they did against Tampa on Sunday night. They're still going to be tough but no way do the Houston Texans stir up the Raiders like a visit (to their house no less, homegame to boot) from their old coach, wide reciever, and running back with the team that beat them in the Super Bowl that used to be the team that Warren Sapp used to play for. At least a little bit of a letdown is safe to expect.

It might only be a little bit of a letdown but it's going to be there I suspect. If we come to play it's a possible win (aren't they all) and if we don't then it's no haircut for DC for sure.

done88
09-28-2004, 01:25 AM
Moderators don't give up their right to state their opinion. This isn't a cheer-club. Mods are simply members of this forum as you are. They just help keep the peace and enforce the rules. We are all equals here.

Everyone on this board has a right to their own opinion and the fact that fans here are trying to enjoy the win for a little while and don't need the board moderators raining on their parade is my opinion. If you have to take shots at least wait a couple of days. This "we are a moderator group" so we can gang up on a user is for the birds also. The fact of the matter is my argument is that unless they have the worst record in football then they are not the worst team in football and if the fans here are going to attack the Texans after a win then its going to be hard for this team to ever be successful.

Carr Bombed
09-28-2004, 02:12 AM
Everyone on this board has a right to their own opinion and the fact that fans here are trying to enjoy the win for a little while and don't need the board moderators raining on their parade is my opinion. If you have to take shots at least wait a couple of days. This "we are a moderator group" so we can gang up on a user is for the birds also. The fact of the matter is my argument is that unless they have the worst record in football then they are not the worst team in football and if the fans here are going to attack the Texans after a win then its going to be hard for this team to ever be successful.

What you just typed makes no sense what so ever. Let me get this straight, so your opinion is that you don't want others to state their opinion, if you don't agree with it or it "rains on your parade". That sounds like censorship to me and totally contradicts with your "Everyone on this board has a right to their opinion" statement. but hey thats just my opinion.

Vinny
09-28-2004, 02:38 AM
Everyone on this board has a right to their own opinion and the fact that fans here are trying to enjoy the win for a little while and don't need the board moderators raining on their parade is my opinion. If you have to take shots at least wait a couple of days. This "we are a moderator group" so we can gang up on a user is for the birds also.
Let me make this more transparent since you did not grasp what I told you. The moderators are simply fans, exactly the same as you. This is a fan moderated forum and they speak their minds as fans of the Houston Texans, just like you. There is no "moderator group logic" that is used when they post their thoughts. The moderators are all individual fans of the team & exchange their personal thoughts on the Texans in the same manner as you.

Take some advice and stay on topic here. I enjoy your posts and enjoy your point of view but this is a football forum, so keep your comments to football talk when you exchange your views with your fellow fans in the bull pen please.

edo783
09-28-2004, 11:46 AM
Also, wasn"t it just 2nd down? If so, and we missed, I think we could have taken another shot at it because there was like 3 seconds left on the clock. Not sure, but I think that"s correct.

Keldar
09-28-2004, 12:08 PM
Also, wasn"t it just 2nd down? If so, and we missed, I think we could have taken another shot at it because there was like 3 seconds left on the clock. Not sure, but I think that"s correct.

I think you are correct.

But, has ANYONE ever seen 2 field goal attempts in a row due to that strategy????? I'm not talking about due to a penalty, but 2 in a row due to attempting the first kick on 2nd or 3rd down, missing, then kicking again on 3rd or 4th if time is available. I'm not aware of that ever happening, at least I have never seen it or heard about it. What if you began kicking on first down????? If time permits, do you get 4 kicks????????????? :confused:

infantrycak
09-28-2004, 12:19 PM
You don't get more than one field goal attempt.

Field Goal

1. All field goals attempted (kicker) and missed from beyond the 20-yard line will result in the defensive team taking possession of the ball at the spot of the kick. On any field goal attempted and missed where the spot of the kick is on or inside the 20-yard line, ball will revert to defensive team at the 20-yard line.


Link (http://www.nfl.com/fans/rules/fieldgoal)

TheOgre
09-28-2004, 12:27 PM
The only advantage to attempting a field goal before 4th down is if there is a bad exchange. If the kicker never attempts the kick and the ball isn't turned over then the team can get another down to try a field goal. If the kicker actually attempts a kick though, you only get one try (barring a penalty).

edo783
09-28-2004, 02:01 PM
AHHHH, knew there had to be a catch. Thanks!

texasguy346
09-28-2004, 05:00 PM
The only advantage to attempting a field goal before 4th down is if there is a bad exchange. If the kicker never attempts the kick and the ball isn't turned over then the team can get another down to try a field goal. If the kicker actually attempts a kick though, you only get one try (barring a penalty).

I think there is also another exception. If the ball doesn't cross the line of scrimmage then it can be rekicked. That happened in a Pittsburgh game a couple years ago, but they may have changed the rule since then. I believe it was Reed who kicked the ball once only to have it blocked. It never passed the line of scrimmage and they got a chance to kick it again, and he made it.

salinaspaul
09-28-2004, 05:51 PM
Houston on the first week lost to the worst team in the league and on the second week we lost to the 2nd worst team in the lleague.

Apparently, they are now not the worst and 2nd-worst teams in the league. Seems as of today, KC is tied with Miami for worst, as far as records go. :hehe: