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View Full Version : Our 4-3 Defense and the personel running in it


Doody
10-25-2006, 01:01 PM
I just want to throw this out there:
I'm not in favor of it, but with all the people arguing about Mario Williams being best suited for a 3-4, is going back to a 3-4 really out of the question? Anthony Weaver was supposed to be one of hte best run stoppers at DE in a 3-4 as a Raven, and if Mario really has the potential to excel as a pass rusher DE in a 3-4, would that maybe beworht taking a look at? I know Travis Johnson isnt a fan, but could Maddox or anyone play NT? Orr is best in a 3-4 as well, and Wong and Ryans might be a good combo as MLBs...I think peek would still be effective on passingdowns

I was just thinking that maybe it would be worth a look...before Kubiak purges the leftover 3-4 guys after this season. At least it would be interesting, caues regardless of our failures with it, alot of people have used it to their advantage.

Anyway, I'm really not advocating this, i'd rather stock up on real 4-3 guys, but thought itd be interesting

bah007
10-25-2006, 01:04 PM
I just want to throw this out there:
I'm not in favor of it, but with all the people arguing about Mario Williams being best suited for a 3-4, is going back to a 3-4 really out of the question? Anthony Weaver was supposed to be one of hte best run stoppers at DE in a 3-4 as a Raven, and if Mario really has the potential to excel as a pass rusher DE in a 3-4, would that maybe beworht taking a look at? I know Travis Johnson isnt a fan, but could Maddox orr anyone play NT? Orr is best in a 3-4 as well, and Wong and Ryans might be a good combo as MLBs...

I was just thinking that maybe it would be worht a look...before Kubiak purges the leftover 3-4 guys after this season. At least it would be interesting, caues regardless of our failures with it, alot of people have used it to their advantage.

Anyway, I'm really not advocating this, i'd rather stock up on real 4-3 guys, but thought its be interesting

Our best NT would prob be Payne, but he is done. I dont think anyone else is really suited for it and that would be bad cuz it might be the most important position in a 3-4

texflex513
10-25-2006, 01:18 PM
I just want to throw this out there:
I'm not in favor of it, but with all the people arguing about Mario Williams being best suited for a 3-4, is going back to a 3-4 really out of the question? Anthony Weaver was supposed to be one of hte best run stoppers at DE in a 3-4 as a Raven, and if Mario really has the potential to excel as a pass rusher DE in a 3-4, would that maybe beworht taking a look at? I know Travis Johnson isnt a fan, but could Maddox or anyone play NT? Orr is best in a 3-4 as well, and Wong and Ryans might be a good combo as MLBs...I think peek would still be effective on passingdowns

I was just thinking that maybe it would be worth a look...before Kubiak purges the leftover 3-4 guys after this season. At least it would be interesting, caues regardless of our failures with it, alot of people have used it to their advantage.

Anyway, I'm really not advocating this, i'd rather stock up on real 4-3 guys, but thought itd be interesting

I am not opposed to having the 3-4 if we had someone like dick labeau (sp)
or crennel to run it. Im sure dunta, mario, weaver and demeco would do well in it, the rest of the guys? im not so sure.

the wonger need food
10-25-2006, 01:30 PM
We don't have the athletic OLB's or Safeties to run an effective 3-4. (See 2005 Houston Texans defense)

El Tejano
10-25-2006, 01:54 PM
I say, let the current system run its course. Looks like the players are catching on a bit, weed out the ones we don't need from the previous system.

Plus why would we want to run something with our current players that didn't work for 3 years.

ATX_Texan
10-25-2006, 02:18 PM
I am a little confused here. First, Casserly tried to build a 3-4 defense for 4 years and we were told they never could get the right people to run it.

Now, after investing in even more on the DL in free agency and the draft, we don't have the right people for running a 4-3 either and we should go back to the the 3-4?

Something does not sound right about all of this. I think the problem was that Casserly could not find people with the ability to play in any kind of a defense. Now, the Texans are forced to build a defense from scratch. There won't be any quick fix and switching schemes won't help. I for one would feel better if our defensive coordiantor inspired more confidence in his abilities. However, I guess the FO will have to try correct these problems over time.

Dime
10-25-2006, 04:08 PM
WHOA... I just thought of a Scary thought.. Imagine this.


Weaver - Johnson - Williams

Babin - Ryans Wong - Peek


That would be a cool and nasty front 7. I like.

run-david-run
10-25-2006, 04:12 PM
Except Peek and Babin are still bad in coverage and have gained weight in order to play DE. Mario has never played in a 3-4, neither has DeMeco. TJ is not a nose tackle. I say stick with the D that has pretty much improved with every game and will continue to improve. We are on the right track, lets just give it some time.

TexansSeminole
10-25-2006, 04:13 PM
Doubt this will happen or we will even add a 3-4 scheme. We need to continue drafting players that fit the 4-3 scheme.

TexansLucky13
10-25-2006, 04:16 PM
WHOA... I just thought of a Scary thought.. Imagine this.


Weaver - Johnson - Williams

Babin - Ryans Wong - Peek


That would be a cool and nasty front 7. I like.

6 Games into the season and everyone is already bailing on the 4-3? Whats the deal?? In the off-season everyone thought this was the best idea in the world.

Como?!

HOU-TEX
10-25-2006, 04:57 PM
6 Games into the season and everyone is already bailing on the 4-3? Whats the deal?? In the off-season everyone thought this was the best idea in the world.

Como?!

Not I! I've never really been fond of the 3-4. I think the Texans D is getting better and will probably continue to get better.:)

alphajoker
10-25-2006, 05:33 PM
Wasn't Richard Smith going to implement a little of the 3-4 defense during the season?

Roughnecks
10-26-2006, 01:22 AM
leave it alone didn't we see enough flip flopping last year let these guys get use to one scheme plus as it has been said before we do not have the personnel for it and the guys seem to be happy with 4-3. Once we our safeties start playing every week and can count on them, then we can throw some different looks at them but as of now they are still learning and trying to get bond together.

phan1
10-26-2006, 04:50 AM
The coaches have almost no experience in the 3-4, especially our Dline coach. Not point in switching now, even if we do have the personnel.

real
10-26-2006, 10:19 AM
Maybe if we play a team that is extremely run oriented we could see some 5-2 alignment in the game. That would be from left to right: Jason Babin, Anthony Weaver, Travis Johnson, Mario Williams, and Antwan Peek, with Demeco Ryans, and Kailee Wong behind them.

If we came out in that alignment with that personnel....You don't think the opposing team would just audible ???

TexansSeminole
10-26-2006, 08:59 PM
There is no MIGHT about it. The NT is the most important position in the 3-4. I also think that Travis Johnson, Maddox and possibly Dalton could play NT. If not I'm sure they could find somebody to play NT. I don't think it would be a bad idea, but I have another idea as well. Maybe if we play a team that is extremely run oriented we could see some 5-2 alignment in the game. That would be from left to right: Jason Babin, Anthony Weaver, Travis Johnson, Mario Williams, and Antwan Peek, with Demeco Ryans, and Kailee Wong behind them.

We'd get burned in a 5-2 with those guys everytime, except maybe on the goal line.

Grid
10-26-2006, 09:47 PM
I think we should stick with the 4-3 and start building around that. We have some key elements in place already with Ryans and Williams.

And Williams is not MORE suited for a 3-4. really we spent too much money on him for him to be a big body that fills holes. He is big and athletic, that is about where his similarity to a 3-4 lineman ends.

If you think about it.. we are pretty close to having 4-3 personel. Most of our guys are suited to either style of defense, and Peek and Babin, while not necessarily suited to it.. are still qualified to be pass rush specialists and rushers on passing downs.. which most 4-3 defenses have.

And Babin actually looked like he could possibly be a starter at 4-3 DE.

threetoedpete
10-26-2006, 10:18 PM
WHOA... I just thought of a Scary thought.. Imagine this.


Weaver - Johnson - Williams

Babin - Ryans Wong - Peek


That would be a cool and nasty front 7. I like.

No it wouldn't. The only point of attack TJ could ever hope to hold is the stake on his dinner plate. With Payne gone, TJ is fixin to be exposed big time. It looks fine on paper but I don't think we'll be switching back baring a string of more inuries. I never could figgure out over the first four years why the organization never would draft a true NT. I do have a problem of throwing in the towel on Mario this early. Took Keith Bullock three seasons to get on line. I think we should give Mario a little time also. He's still just a babe.

sleepwalker
10-27-2006, 06:16 AM
No question some great D's run the 3-4 and have success...For me personally, I dream of the day when our front 4 is so solid that they can put pressure on QB's and stuff the run by themselves without blitz help.

We do have a Dime or Nickel package that uses only 3 down linemen, the infamous *prevent* defence...I don't think I have seen that but once or twice in 3 weeks, thank god...After that Oilers loss to the Bills, I would just assume never see this play called again in Houston.

HJam72
10-27-2006, 06:31 AM
In my opinion, we're all going to realize someday, when he has experience in this league and really knows what he's doing, that what Mario Williams is really perfect for is RDE in the 4-3, just like he was used in college. I look at him and, even if I didn't know about the college stuff, I see 4-3 DE written all over him. If he puts the heart and effort into it, he's going to be a sack tabulating machine from that position one day and I'm talking about serious numbers. I don't see him as a 3-4 player. He's not stocky enough to be one of the 3 DLs in a 3-4 (although he may be big enough, just too lanky and tall) and he's just a tad too slow to be a LB in the 3-4.

Who's the guy (excuse my useless memory--Sean something I think) who played DE for the Oilers and then went to GB and helped them win a SB. When I look at Williams, I see him--only bigger, faster, and with a huge wingspan. We're talking serious upside at that position. That's why I kind of don't like him playing inside (not in the long run), even though we have Peek (and Babin). He can play inside (in a 4-3 only IMO), but it's not where he can become GREAT.

thunderkyss
10-27-2006, 08:45 AM
In my opinion, we're all going to realize someday, when he has experience in this league and really knows what he's doing, that what Mario Williams is really perfect for is RDE in the 4-3, just like he was used in college. I look at him and, even if I didn't know about the college stuff, I see 4-3 DE written all over him. If he puts the heart and effort into it, he's going to be a sack tabulating machine from that position one day and I'm talking about serious numbers. I don't see him as a 3-4 player. He's not stocky enough to be one of the 3 DLs in a 3-4 (although he may be big enough, just too lanky and tall) and he's just a tad too slow to be a LB in the 3-4.

Who's the guy (excuse my useless memory--Sean something I think) who played DE for the Oilers and then went to GB and helped them win a SB. When I look at Williams, I see him--only bigger, faster, and with a huge wingspan. We're talking serious upside at that position. That's why I kind of don't like him playing inside (not in the long run), even though we have Peek (and Babin). He can play inside (in a 4-3 only IMO), but it's not where he can become GREAT.


3-4 DEs don't become great, normally..... like a 4-3 DT, very few of them become (great) WarrenSapp(??) & my new favorite, Vonnie Holliday.

But Mario was used as a DE, or a DT in college.

Most of his stats in my mind, makes him a runstopper. With his size, I could see him working very well in a 3-4, like ChrisCanty(6'7" 300lbs), Marcus Spears(6' 4" 298), Igor Olshansky(6'6" 309), Ty Warren (6'5" 300lbs), Richard Seymour(6' 6" 300lbs)

http://re3.mm-a6.yimg.com/image/2245114224

Why we'd take the big wide RobaireSmith, & TravisJohnson, and make them 3-4 DEs don't make sense to me. They looked more like NTs to me. Even though SethPayne did well, considering his size, but IMHO, he is not the proto-typical 3-4 NT.

Now there are guys Mario's size that have dominated, Bruce Smith, Charles Haley, Reggie White...... so I don't have a problem with him being in the 4-3, I'm just saying he'd be perfect for a 3-4.

The DE you're describing sounds more like the Jason Taylor guy, too tall & too Lanky for a 3-4 DE. Too slow to be an OLB....

HOU-TEX
10-27-2006, 10:08 AM
In my opinion, we're all going to realize someday, when he has experience in this league and really knows what he's doing, that what Mario Williams is really perfect for is RDE in the 4-3, just like he was used in college. I look at him and, even if I didn't know about the college stuff, I see 4-3 DE written all over him. If he puts the heart and effort into it, he's going to be a sack tabulating machine from that position one day and I'm talking about serious numbers. I don't see him as a 3-4 player. He's not stocky enough to be one of the 3 DLs in a 3-4 (although he may be big enough, just too lanky and tall) and he's just a tad too slow to be a LB in the 3-4.

Who's the guy (excuse my useless memory--Sean something I think) who played DE for the Oilers and then went to GB and helped them win a SB. When I look at Williams, I see him--only bigger, faster, and with a huge wingspan. We're talking serious upside at that position. That's why I kind of don't like him playing inside (not in the long run), even though we have Peek (and Babin). He can play inside (in a 4-3 only IMO), but it's not where he can become GREAT.

Sean Jones