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View Full Version : Who's going to deliver VY or MW?


TexansBull
10-23-2006, 01:39 AM
I was just reading McClains blog. I found some interesting info. I was amazed too.

He says that the day of the draft in NY MW said he was going to get after VY and sack him.

He quoted that VY said he was "going to beat up on the Texans" when he was at the airport with Bud the day after that.

Whos going to deliver?

McClains blog:http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2006/10/after_an_impressive_win_over_t_1.html

thunderkyss
10-23-2006, 01:44 AM
next year, Vince will be able to beat bad teams on his own, but next year we won't be a bad team, and this year, Vince can't do it.

We also will not loose to the Titans..

for that to be true, guys, we have got to stop focusing on sacks. Mario has his 2.5 sacks, but we have got to stop the run...

it's fundamental football. make them one dimensional, and force some bad throws.

We'll get some sacks in the 4th Qtr.

LORK 88
10-23-2006, 01:46 AM
Mario is starting to come into his own, and is turning the corner. People want Vince to suceed, but he's done crap passing the ball so far. Mario makes the bigger impact and I really wanna see him sack Vince and give him trouble. Like Thunder said, take away the run and force Vince to throw.

TexanSam
10-23-2006, 01:47 AM
Being the Texans homer that I am of course I'm going to say Mario. That being said, I do think Super Mario is having a better year than Vince Young. Mario is steadily improving and today you could see he pressured Leftwich on more than one occasion. While even the best D-linemen aren't going to get to the QB or even pressure him every time, most of them will do it may about 50-60% of the time. I don't think Mario is there yet, but he is getting better and better. Vince Young has gotten better as well, but he's not up to snuff. Mario could be considered a decent D-lineman so far this season. Not bad. Not good, but he has been average. I don't think Vince Young is even an average QB right now. He's probably one of the worst in the NFL. Bottom third-ish.

thunderkyss
10-23-2006, 02:04 AM
That being said, I do think Super Mario is having a better year than Vince Young.

Vince Young has gotten better as well, but he's not up to snuff. Mario could be considered a decent D-lineman so far this season. Not bad. Not good, but he has been average. I don't think Vince Young is even an average QB right now. He's probably one of the worst in the NFL. Bottom third-ish.

With a QB, especially one like Vince, you shouldn't expect him to come into the league and be all Ben Rothlisberger like. That was a fluke, & most likely won't happen again for a very long time.

What you want is to get Vince on the field, to acclimate himself to the speed of the game. All he's got to do, is not do anything stupid. They aren't going to win a bunch of games, the fans should understand that, the coaches and the whole organization should know that.

As long as Vince is not overwhelmed by the game, and learns not to make the same stupid mistakes again & again & again, then he's doing all he needs to do.

If they happen to win a game.... that's fine. If he throws 3 touchdowns in a game........ wow.... but no one is expecting that, or for him to complete 60% of his passes.

Take snaps, learn the playbook, read coverages..... that's about all he needs to do this year.

BuffSoldier
10-23-2006, 02:16 AM
Being a QB, of course VY is going to have the most meaningful game, but with all that being said I think that the Texas will win the game and Williams will have a good game,

TexansBull
10-23-2006, 02:29 AM
next year, Vince will be able to beat bad teams on his own, but next year we won't be a bad team, and this year, Vince can't do it.

We also will not loose to the Titans..

for that to be true, guys, we have got to stop focusing on sacks. Mario has his 2.5 sacks, but we have got to stop the run...

it's fundamental football. make them one dimensional, and force some bad throws.

We'll get some sacks in the 4th Qtr.

The poll wasnt meant to be the usual "Mario sack count is whatever and he has to get 20 sacks for him to be first draft pick worthy..."

It was meant to focus on who is going to deliver on what they said. Is VY going to come out and whoop up on us, or is Mario going to go out and sack VY? Simple. The sack is what Mario said to measure him by. Not me.

Maybe this will be that start of two great players going at each other twice a year, and going for broke-leaving everything on the field. I hope so. Cowboys and Redskins. Bears and Packers. I want to see a rivalry develop like the that. Yanks and the Red Sox. Or even the Celtics and the Lakers. Something.

The rivalry was going to be there, Bud and all, well you know the history, but the draft pick thing is icing on the cake.

But I need a winning team first....

Cgold
10-23-2006, 03:39 AM
I'll tell you who will deliver...DC

TexanSam
10-23-2006, 03:58 AM
With a QB, especially one like Vince, you shouldn't expect him to come into the league and be all Ben Rothlisberger like. That was a fluke, & most likely won't happen again for a very long time.

What you want is to get Vince on the field, to acclimate himself to the speed of the game. All he's got to do, is not do anything stupid. They aren't going to win a bunch of games, the fans should understand that, the coaches and the whole organization should know that.

As long as Vince is not overwhelmed by the game, and learns not to make the same stupid mistakes again & again & again, then he's doing all he needs to do.

If they happen to win a game.... that's fine. If he throws 3 touchdowns in a game........ wow.... but no one is expecting that, or for him to complete 60% of his passes.

Take snaps, learn the playbook, read coverages..... that's about all he needs to do this year.

I don't expect Young to be a Ben Rothlisberger type QB which is why I think Mario will have a bigger impact. I think a D-lineman, while it does take a while to become fully acclimated to the NFL, makes a bigger impact as a rookie than a QB does. Maybe not always, but certainly in this case, especially with Vince Young as raw as he is.

thunderkyss
10-23-2006, 08:26 AM
I don't expect Young to be a Ben Rothlisberger type QB which is why I think Mario will have a bigger impact. I think a D-lineman, while it does take a while to become fully acclimated to the NFL, makes a bigger impact as a rookie than a QB does. Maybe not always, but certainly in this case, especially with Vince Young as raw as he is.

I totally agree with that, but no one expects Vince to have a big impact this year.....

but to clarify my position, Vince will not beat the Texans this year..... Mario will Sack Vince in the upcoming week.

fball
10-24-2006, 12:53 AM
Man, I hope so but Vince is fast and elusive! I do think that the Texans will win this game, I predict 27-14 Texans. What do ya'll think?

Scooter
10-24-2006, 01:11 AM
running qb's are more likely to get sacked. rookie qb's are more likely to get sacked. a rookie running qb, who's going to be overplaying and trying too hard to make plays from an emotional standpoint when nothing's available SHOULD be a target. peek & babin may have huge days, but hopefully it's mario that's the beneficiary of these circumstances. either way i expect our DE's to be overwhelming.

as amped as vince is for this game, i expect kubiak to be a little more on mario's side than usual trying to get him into position to make plays as opposed to keeping balance.

Sco-tai
10-24-2006, 01:52 AM
Here's something to consider with both Vince and Mario being rookies.

They are both EXTREMELY talented. But they both react naturally (and in pressure, irratically) because the speed of the NFL and they're still catching up at this point, as are the play books. With that said....you'll often see Vince abandon "staying in the pocket" per plan, and he'll kind of improvise. Likewise, Mario has been see to over pursue a play, and pass up the plays a vet would have read.

I would not be the LEAST surprised for a PRIME example of this to appear benefiting BOTH players. I could COMPLETELY see Mario sacking Vince because the coverage was good and MARIO had a GREAT PLAY! And I can also see Mario over-pursuing...and let Vince burn him for a big play.

Regardless...I can't wait to see the game.

I'm SO proud of DC and our squad yesterday. Let's hope this is a trend!

cheers Y'all,

Sco-tai

:redtowel:

HoustonFan
10-24-2006, 08:24 AM
I think it will be a close game - Vince has his team playing close. BUT, Texans will win. The return of Wong, Faggins, and Peek has sparked the defense it seems. AJ, Moulds, Daniels should give the Titans defense some problems. Hopefully the running game improves from Sunday.

Texans - 24
Titans - 17

real
10-24-2006, 09:08 AM
Not to rain on anyones Parade....but all of Marios 2.5 sacks have been gimme's......I say neither one delivers....

Mr. White
10-24-2006, 09:17 AM
Not to rain on anyones Parade....but all of Marios 2.5 sacks have been gimme's......

Just out of curiosity...what's the difference between a "gimme" sack and a non-"gimme" sack?

infantrycak
10-24-2006, 09:21 AM
Not to rain on anyones Parade....but all of Marios 2.5 sacks have been gimme's......I say neither one delivers....

Eeh--that's one of the reason sacks are an overrated stat. Did you see Peppers' 1st sack of the year or Strahan's 1st sack last night or Arrington's sack for the safety last night? 100% unblocked pro-bowl DE straight to the QB (who the heck forgets to block Peppers or Strahan) or unblocked blitzer. Tons of sack stats are more on O and D schemes/blown assignments than physical domination by the player. Not saying talent doesn't play a big part of consistant effectiveness--just that sack stats are padded with gimmes all over the NFL.

real
10-24-2006, 09:22 AM
Just out of curiosity...what's the difference between a "gimme" sack and a non-"gimme" sack?

Ummm....Well I take that back.....

He had one good sack against Culpepper...

the .5 IMO, wasn't really his...

And the one against the Jags, Leftwhich fell down...

And you know what the difference is...I don't have to explain that...

Mr. White
10-24-2006, 09:30 AM
And you know what the difference is...I don't have to explain that...

I'm just trying to ascertain what defines a "gimme" sack. Seems like that's pretty open to interpretation.

One could make the argument (like icak did) that all sacks are "gimmes".

real
10-24-2006, 09:32 AM
Eeh--that's one of the reason sacks are an overrated stat. Did you see Peppers' 1st sack of the year or Strahan's 1st sack last night or Arrington's sack for the safety last night? 100% unblocked pro-bowl DE straight to the QB (who the heck forgets to block Peppers or Strahan) or unblocked blitzer. Tons of sack stats are more on O and D schemes/blown assignments than physical domination by the player. Not saying talent doesn't play a big part of consistant effectiveness--just that sack stats are padded with gimmes all over the NFL.

I agree...And By no means was I implying that Mario hasn't been playing well....I was pleased with all the pressure that he was putting on Leftwich on Sunday....

But for the purposes of this thread....I don't really expect Mario to go into the game and get sacks....I just haven't seen that ability out of him yet...

real
10-24-2006, 09:34 AM
I'm just trying to ascertain what defines a "gimme" sack. Seems like that's pretty open to interpretation.

One could make the argument (like icak did) that all sacks are "gimmes".

When A QB falls down...thats a gimme sack

When Someone else actually sacks he QB and you get .5 credit....thats a gimme sack

I wouldn't neccessarily say that when you are unblocked thats a gimme though...

real
10-24-2006, 09:35 AM
And come on BR....you know the difference between a sack that was earned and a gimme sack...

Mr. White
10-24-2006, 09:43 AM
And come on BR....you know the difference between a sack that was earned and a gimme sack...

Like I said...I think it's relative. I won't argue that 1 of the sacks wasn't easy. The .5 is open to argument IMO but it's not worth it.

real
10-24-2006, 09:47 AM
Like I said...I think it's relative. I won't argue that 1 of the sacks wasn't easy. The .5 is open to argument IMO but it's not worth it.

Again not to step on anyones toes....But honestly I haven't really seen a "good" sack from Mario(FWIW)....

All of his sacks have been relatively easy....

Again...not taking away from anything he has done because IMO, he has looked better and better every week....

I just don't see him as a sack artist...

ansuz118
10-24-2006, 09:57 AM
one word pressure! on VY will get it done.

Honoring Earl 34
10-24-2006, 09:58 AM
I thought Mario's best play of the game was one he did'nt get near Leftwich . He and the DT did a stunt and Mario was late ... so he saw Leftwich about to pass and instead of trying to bullrush he stopped , timed his jump and the only think Byron could see was a red # 90 . Thats the play Leftwich over threw reggie Williams by a mile .

Oh yeah I think Mario will have a better game ... Vince will be pretty good though .

Mr teX
10-24-2006, 10:05 AM
Lets just be real fellas. I want MW to sack VY & cause all types of trouble for the titans. But in reality its a team game & MW has only played well when the entire D has flourished. See a trend here? Vince will put up the better stat line just b/c he has the ball in his hands on every offensive down. MW will have his moments, but unless the ENTIRE D comes to play i can't see MW having a huge impact on this game.

HOU-TEX
10-24-2006, 10:07 AM
I'm not sure who's going to have the better game. Hopefully Mario. Overall, this game has me alot more worried than I was for Jville. I don't know why. I guess only time will tell.:)

bah007
10-24-2006, 10:29 AM
it doesnt matter that Leftwitch fell down. Its not a gimmee for Mario. He still had to be the first person there to get it

real
10-24-2006, 10:39 AM
it doesnt matter that Leftwitch fell down. Its not a gimmee for Mario. He still had to be the first person there to get it

Me thinks it matters just a bit...

bah007
10-24-2006, 10:43 AM
Me thinks it matters just a bit...

if you watch the play, Mario had his guy beat anyway. If we had even decent coverage on the play then Mario would have him

real
10-24-2006, 10:50 AM
if you watch the play, Mario had his guy beat anyway. If we had even decent coverage on the play then Mario would have him

LoL....I'm sorry sir....but i just don't agree with you...

Out of all the plays that Mario has played....you want me to believe that the one play where the QB fell down....he had his man beat to the point that he would have gotten him anyway....and it just so happened to come on that one play.....Im not buying it...

Honoring Earl 34
10-24-2006, 11:26 AM
LoL....I'm sorry sir....but i just don't agree with you...

Out of all the plays that Mario has played....you want me to believe that the one play where the QB fell down....he had his man beat to the point that he would have gotten him anyway....and it just so happened to come on that one play.....Im not buying it...

In baseball you hit the ball right on the nose but its right at somebody and its an out ... other times you hit the ball at the end of the bat , it rolls 10 feet and your on first . Who cares if its pretty at the end it evens out .

real
10-24-2006, 11:29 AM
In baseball you hit the ball right on the nose but its right at somebody and its an out ... other times you hit the ball at the end of the bat , it rolls 10 feet and your on first . Who cares if its pretty at the end it evens out .

It's not the same...

real
10-24-2006, 11:32 AM
Thats a bad comparison....

Here's a better one....

If a pitcher's hands are wet, and the ball slips out of his hand and he hits the batter then the batter gets to take first...and really didn't do much, besides be in the right place at the right time(or wrong place)

Thats equivilent to a QB slipping and falling and someone getting an easy sack...By being in the right place at the right time...

srstex
10-24-2006, 11:50 AM
Although I believe both will have good games, the Titan D is what we need to look out for, they beat the Redskins and they made us look bad. If our entire D looks like last week evryone will have a good game. As to the original question, yes Mario will have a sack, at least one.

eric138
10-24-2006, 11:58 AM
but when comparing sacks to sacks apparently it doesn't matter what kind of sack it is correct? I mean, I've never seen anyone on this board show a complete run down of anyone else's sacks when saying those guys were better than Mario. For all we know without doing research is that all of Peppers sacks were these so-called gimme sacks.

Same with Bush, i mean, isn't it pretty much gimme yards when you are playing against the Titans?

real
10-24-2006, 12:05 PM
but when comparing sacks to sacks apparently it doesn't matter what kind of sack it is correct? I mean, I've never seen anyone on this board show a complete run down of anyone else's sacks when saying those guys were better than Mario. For all we know without doing research is that all of Peppers sacks were these so-called gimme sacks.

Same with Bush, i mean, isn't it pretty much gimme yards when you are playing against the Titans?

a complete rundown of anyone elses sacks?? Who cares about anyone else...we are talking about Mario, and for the purpose of this thread I don't think Mario OR VY will come through with their promises...

Better question...

What has Mario done to lead you to believe he will get a sack this game??

Are you banking an VY falling ?

Are you banking on someone else getting to him and Mario gettin .5 credit ?

I'm not saying that he can't or won't get a sack...Im just saying that Mario hasn't really shown me anything that makes me confident that he is going to get to the QB and get a sack....

1.5 of his sacks IMO, were gimmes....JMO...

thunderkyss
10-24-2006, 12:16 PM
if you watch the play, Mario had his guy beat anyway. If we had even decent coverage on the play then Mario would have him

I love the pick.

I love Mario.

But he beat the Dolphins RT badly on one play, had both hands wrapped around Culpepper, and still didn't get a sack.

He's beat the double team in front of him on several occasions, & was the first man to FredTaylor, got a hand on him, but didn't even get credit on the tackle, because Taylor got a way from him, and someone else got the tackle.

Let this one go, it doesn't mean anything. Strahan got his second sack last night, because nobody blocked him..... you think he feels bad about taking credit on that one??

Mario is doing fine, and we need to not put such a focus on sacks.

real
10-24-2006, 12:21 PM
Mario is doing fine, and we need to not put such a focus on sacks.

I agree...I like the way Mario is coming along...he looks better every week...And I actually think Mario is going to prove to be more valuable in stopping the run for us...

But for the purposes of this thread...

I just don't have confidence that Mario will get a sack...I'm hoping he does...and the homer in me says he will...but his on field performance doesn't tell me he's going to get one....

I will admit that he get's closer and closer every week....so this may indeed be the week where we actually see him come off the line, beat his man, and hit the unexpecting QB, square inbetween his shoulder blades....

Mr. White
10-24-2006, 12:27 PM
I think Keyshawn Johnson (http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-nfcnotes22oct22,1,1608514.story?coll=la-headlines-sports) put it best when he was comparing Simeon Rice to Julius Peppers.

Carolina receiver Keyshawn Johnson told reporters this week that Rice, his former Tampa Bay teammate, isn't nearly as good a defensive end as the Panthers' Julius Peppers. Johnson said Peppers is the most complete defensive end he has seen in his 11-year career.

"One guy goes after nothing but sacks," he said of Rice. "The other guy plays complete. One guy says outrageous statements about he's the best at this, this, this. And the other guy it's not even close.

"All Simeon Rice does is rush the passer. That's it. If he doesn't get to the quarterback, you can forget it. He ain't making any other plays."

Peppers leads the NFL with eight sacks; Rice has 120 for his career but only one this season.

I'm not a big proponent of talking trash on old teammates, but Keyshawn's got a point. You'd rather have the guy that not only goes after sacks, but tackles, tipped passes and fumble recoveries.

Icak said it best on this thread when he said that sacks are an overrated statistic. They're more a reflection of how well the entire defense is playing or how bad an offense is playing.

thunderkyss
10-24-2006, 12:53 PM
I just don't have confidence that Mario will get a sack...I'm hoping he does...and the homer in me says he will...but his on field performance doesn't tell me he's going to get one....

I will admit that he get's closer and closer every week....so this may indeed be the week where we actually see him come off the line, beat his man, and hit the unexpecting QB, square inbetween his shoulder blades....

he had his hands around Culpepper, he's beating double coverage, he was in Bledsoe's face all day..... he hit leftwich a couple of times.......

I've got no doubt he'll get a sack against the Titans.

but I had no doubt he'd get one against Philly..... Indy.... Washington........ or Dallas, so who knows??

canadiantexan
10-24-2006, 04:03 PM
I would think that of all the games so far this one would represent the best chance to get a sack for Mario. First of VY is a very talented player but he is still a rookie QB and rookie QB's historicly take more sacks than veterns. VY also is a scrambling QB and scrambling QB's often run themselves into sacks just ask Vick. Thirdly the Titans O-line is one of, if not the weakest one we have faced this year. ASll of this leds me to believe that Mario will more than likely improve his sack numbers against the flaming tacks.

dat_boy_yec
10-24-2006, 06:40 PM
I think Mario will have a few sacks this weekend. Will it be because he turns into a sack artist. I don't think so. I think it'll be because of the Titans option plays. VY has to read the end and I'm sure he'll make a few mistakes doing so.

bah007
10-24-2006, 06:45 PM
I think Mario will have a few sacks this weekend. Will it be because he turns into a sack artist. I don't think so. I think it'll be because of the Titans option plays. VY has to read the end and I'm sure he'll make a few mistakes doing so.

Vince ran the read option the entire season last year at Texas. Chances are that he will not misread the DE on that play. Our sacks will prob come on zone blitz where he doesnt know who is coming or who will be occupying each zone.

Wordem
10-24-2006, 07:19 PM
The Titans are going to win easily.

sprtsfanatic
10-24-2006, 07:23 PM
When A QB falls down...thats a gimme sack

When Someone else actually sacks he QB and you get .5 credit....thats a gimme sack

I wouldn't neccessarily say that when you are unblocked thats a gimme though...

I dont understand you all. You give him crap about being at the right place at the right time...he has a knack for being in or around the play at ALL times...whether it be providing pressure on the qb or deflecting the game tying pass in the red zone or even getting around his man to touch a player that is down...

You need to come off of your high horse and just accept the fact that Mario is a high motor player that has great size, power, and speed and has a nose for the ball and is always around the play. He is a rookie and learning but yet still in a lot of plays. Give him credit where credit is due and let him play his game.

real
10-25-2006, 08:45 AM
I dont understand you all. You give him crap about being at the right place at the right time...he has a knack for being in or around the play at ALL times...whether it be providing pressure on the qb or deflecting the game tying pass in the red zone or even getting around his man to touch a player that is down...

You need to come off of your high horse and just accept the fact that Mario is a high motor player that has great size, power, and speed and has a nose for the ball and is always around the play. He is a rookie and learning but yet still in a lot of plays. Give him credit where credit is due and let him play his game.

What on earth does that have to do with the topic of this thread???

The question asked was...who do you think will deliver on their promise VY or Mario...

I never said Mario can't play....I never said Mario sucked....I just said I don't think he is going to get a sack this weekend....the end

OzzO
10-26-2006, 09:31 AM
....Williams stood near his locker before Wednesday's practice and was inundated with questions about sacks, the easy (and often worst) measure used to evaluate a defensive lineman's play.

He handled the situation like a No. 1 draft pick should.

Do you look forward to getting a sack this week more than any other?

"I look forward to every week."

Do you want to sack Vince more than any other quarterback?

"I want to sack every quarterback."

A sack against Young would be bigger than a sack against anybody else, right?

"It's a bigger deal for the media."

Wouldn't it be nice to sack Vince?

"It would be nice to sack any quarterback. I guess it'll make the media happy to sack Vince. I want to sack everybody; I hope I do. That's the plan."

But wouldn't a big day against Young silence a few of the critics who think he should be quarterbacking the Texans?

"I guess it would, but the only thing I'm focusing on is helping this team get going in the right direction."...

chronic 10-26-06 (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/4288557.html)

What?!?! The media hypes it up?!?! No way.

dat_boy_yec
10-26-2006, 01:29 PM
Vince ran the read option the entire season last year at Texas. Chances are that he will not misread the DE on that play. Our sacks will prob come on zone blitz where he doesnt know who is coming or who will be occupying each zone.

That is true, and there is the possibility we get burned on every play, but I just don't see that happening this weekend. Vince has to read what route Mario is going to take every time. Well what does he do if Mario is simply pushing the tackle straight back towards them. Or Mario is playing on the opposite side then the read is supposed to go to, or he's in coverage. I'm sure Vince will make most of the right choices, but Mario only needs him to hesitate and make the wrong choices a few times to have his #s. Regardless of Mario's stats, I just can't see him not having a big impact on this game.