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View Full Version : Chew on this: Carr and his short passing game


Wolf
10-22-2006, 12:23 PM
http://espn.go.com/nfl/s/westcoast/history.html

Perhaps the most revolutionary twists: Despite being groomed by Davis in a vertical passing game, Walsh decided to stretch secondaries horizontally as well, forcing slower linebackers and safeties into coverages. He believed in throwing on any down, with the simple four-yard pass replacing many of the rushing plays, and he understood that if bigger receivers were able to break just one tackle, one of those four-yard passes could become a 20-yard gain.


People criticize Carr and his short throws..Well isn't that what the West Coast offense does?

now if we need to criticize the Texan offense.. they can't beat a cover 2.

Bronco Texan
10-22-2006, 01:06 PM
That is why I have never wasted my time repling to all the negative comments on Carrs short passes. I've grown up watching this offense with the Broncos. Some people are just too ignorant to know what the WC offense is all about. Not trying to name call just trying to prove how missinformed some are.

Koolaid Time
10-22-2006, 01:50 PM
http://espn.go.com/nfl/s/westcoast/history.html

People criticize Carr and his short throws..Well isn't that what the West Coast offense does?

now if we need to criticize the Texan offense.. they can't beat a cover 2.

I think they are doing the short dump routes to make the linebackers play honest since we donb't have a credible running game.

Wharton
10-22-2006, 08:37 PM
Carr didn't throw down the field last year either and we weren't running the west coast offense then. So what's there to chew on?

mexican_texan
10-22-2006, 08:39 PM
Carr didn't throw down the field last year either and we weren't running the west coast offense then. So what's there to chew on?
He had DD to throw dump offs to.

awtysst
10-22-2006, 08:41 PM
http://espn.go.com/nfl/s/westcoast/history.html



People criticize Carr and his short throws..Well isn't that what the West Coast offense does?

now if we need to criticize the Texan offense.. they can't beat a cover 2.

yes, the short passes are a cornerstone of the West coast offense. However, you also mix in a few deep balls as well. If you never throw deep, the Defense can stack the box and your a) either having the QB run for his life b) unloading lots of 2 yard passes, or c) See a and b.

Tayton
10-22-2006, 08:44 PM
Carr has played pretty well this year, and yes I am a fan but he missed a couple of TE down the middle today.

HJam72
10-22-2006, 08:46 PM
He also hit one of them for a TD. :ok:

Reddevil63
10-22-2006, 08:48 PM
Carr didn't throw down the field last year either and we weren't running the west coast offense then. So what's there to chew on?
There isnt a name for the "offense" (and I use that term loosely) that was run last year because it was so horrendous. You cant blame Carr for last year at all.

thunderkyss
10-22-2006, 08:49 PM
http://espn.go.com/nfl/s/westcoast/history.html



People criticize Carr and his short throws..Well isn't that what the West Coast offense does?

now if we need to criticize the Texan offense.. they can't beat a cover 2.

Carr took two big shots downfield. One was intercepted, and we got lucky. The other was that touchdown..... so I don't know.

I admit that I too criticize David for not stretching the field. If the passing game is going to open the running game, it's the throws that stretch the field, that is going to do it. the short passes, force the defense to play where we don't want them, closer to the line, making it more difficult to run the ball. We need the deep pass to back them up.

Now I was cussing Carr all game, because I thought the reason we got Moulds was to force one on one coverage, and challenge that coverage, thinking we should win more times than not.

That doesn't appear to be in Carr's makeup, or he just hasn't got used to Molds just yet. I say this because I see AJ & Moulds running in single coverage often from 608.

Then I got to thinking...... every now and again, you'll see Peyton, Palmer, or McNabb making some tight throws..... but most of the time, ReggieWayne is wide open. Reggie Brown is Wide open, who'sYourMamma is wide open...

& that's because of play design. Why would anybody ever leave Westbrook uncovered?? Play design... The LB/Safety has to make a decision, and neither is ever a good decision.

I haven't seen any of our plays that do the same thing... except that bootleg OwenScored his 3rd touchdown on.... (2 rookies on our team combine for 4 touchdowns..... wow. 3 out of the passing game, 1 out of the running game... what more could anyone expect from the '06 draft??)

I understand the play action gets that for us, but I think we need to draw up some plays that attack the LB/Safety.

thunderkyss
10-22-2006, 08:56 PM
He also hit one of them for a TD. :ok:

Carr could have easily had 300 yards and 4 touchdowns today.....

if our guy does catch the ball that is.

I'm not knocking on Carr, but there were some opportunities downfield.... several times, when we'd motion Andre, Eric would be in the slot covered by a LB, and we wouldn't go there.

And I'm fine with that, thinking that will come later on, as Carr gets more & more comfortable behind his OLine.

Wharton
10-22-2006, 09:01 PM
There isnt a name for the "offense" (and I use that term loosely) that was run last year because it was so horrendous. You cant blame Carr for last year at all.Carr is looking allot better this year. I won't take that away from him, but he still need to throw the ball down the field. You don't necessarily have to complete those passes, but you have to make the throw. It loosens up the LB and DB to create running lanes. Every the teams who run the West Coast offense, like Seattle, Denver and Green Bay, take shots down the field.

Oh, and to say Carr is blameless for last years horror of a season is nuts. Yes, Casserly is to blame, Capers and the coaching staff is to blame, and so is every player on that team.

HJam72
10-22-2006, 09:06 PM
Let's not forget that he did throw that 35 yd. TD to AJ, although that was just mostly AJ making a play because it could have been a pick if it were some lesser talented receiver.

It is true that he's probably not throwing the longer attempts often enough, but he is doing some and, with the exception of trying to force it last week against Dallas when nothing else would work, he's not throwing interceptions.

As far as missed opportunities goes, I'm sure he probably did miss some and I'm also sure that Moulds is getting open more often than that, but if Carr found all those open passes every time and passed for 400 yd. games he'd be the best QB in the world--and nobody's saying that he is. We're just glad he's playing well, as in average or better.

NATHANHALE
10-22-2006, 10:05 PM
It also seems that Carr is not 'bailing' out of the pocket as quick and is actually throwing the ball down field just before he gets hit, instead of taking a sack---talking about that lob pass that he over threw down the side line to Andre(?).

Hulk75
10-22-2006, 10:43 PM
Carr took two big shots downfield. One was intercepted, and we got lucky. The other was that touchdown..... so I don't know.

I admit that I too criticize David for not stretching the field. If the passing game is going to open the running game, it's the throws that stretch the field, that is going to do it. the short passes, force the defense to play where we don't want them, closer to the line, making it more difficult to run the ball. We need the deep pass to back them up.

Now I was cussing Carr all game, because I thought the reason we got Moulds was to force one on one coverage, and challenge that coverage, thinking we should win more times than not.

That doesn't appear to be in Carr's makeup, or he just hasn't got used to Molds just yet. I say this because I see AJ & Moulds running in single coverage often from 608.

Then I got to thinking...... every now and again, you'll see Peyton, Palmer, or McNabb making some tight throws..... but most of the time, ReggieWayne is wide open. Reggie Brown is Wide open, who'sYourMamma is wide open...

& that's because of play design. Why would anybody ever leave Westbrook uncovered?? Play design... The LB/Safety has to make a decision, and neither is ever a good decision.

I haven't seen any of our plays that do the same thing... except that bootleg OwenScored his 3rd touchdown on.... (2 rookies on our team combine for 4 touchdowns..... wow. 3 out of the passing game, 1 out of the running game... what more could anyone expect from the '06 draft??)

I understand the play action gets that for us, but I think we need to draw up some plays that attack the LB/Safety.

Carr knew there was pass inteference on the play, so he gave it a toss, to see what would happened. Next one he put some hight on it and trusted his WR, end of story , Carr had a great game AGAIN against another top ranked Defense.

The Pencil Neck
10-22-2006, 11:06 PM
Carr could have easily had 300 yards and 4 touchdowns today.....

if our guy does catch the ball that is.

I'm not knocking on Carr, but there were some opportunities downfield.... several times, when we'd motion Andre, Eric would be in the slot covered by a LB, and we wouldn't go there.

And I'm fine with that, thinking that will come later on, as Carr gets more & more comfortable behind his OLine.

Step by step, brick by brick. Before this season started, we all would have been incredibly happy and surprised to see Carr playing this well. Kubiak is still working with him and he'll continue to make improvement.

I really expected Carr to look really bad the first few games of this season. So I'm just tickled battle red by his play.

HJam72
10-22-2006, 11:13 PM
I think the 3rd Qtr. is meaningless too. :hides:

Ibar_Harry
10-22-2006, 11:15 PM
http://espn.go.com/nfl/s/westcoast/history.html



People criticize Carr and his short throws..Well isn't that what the West Coast offense does?

now if we need to criticize the Texan offense.. they can't beat a cover 2.

Well, I have been yelling until I'm blue in the face why we should be doing this. Its nice that someone else recognizes what the 49ers use to do. Actually they used the attack to set up the run later in the game. You pass until the other team believes you are going to do nothing, but pass the ball. At that point you can effectively run the ball and that's what happened today. When Carr, AJ, Walters, and Moulds started having an effect, they relaxed on the run and Lundy had some fun. When it was crunch time and we tried to move the ball we were generally ineffective. They knew what was coming.

If you go to game quotes you will see a reference to Moulds and how he blocked 3 guys to spring Lundy. People have no idea how valueable this guy is. He helps in so many areas, but he probably will never get the billing of AJ or others. He's an older player with a lot of savvy. He knows how get it done. If he imparts just have his wisdom on our receivers we will be a force to reckon with. Oh,yes Kubiak did give him the game ball today for his 700 reception. Only 23 others have done that. I think Kubiak understands the other part of what he does very well.

phan1
10-22-2006, 11:26 PM
I don't have too much of a problem with the short passing game, as it kind of works like a running play. 3-4 yd gains aren't too bad. But you have to at least gain yardage. No gain on those short passes are what's infuriating. I also just blew a gasget when he did it on 3rd and long. What the hell!!! Another stupid dunk pass to Cook on 3rd and long?!? INFURIATING!

I'd atually like to see the quick lateral to AJ again. The first db is never able to make a tackle on him, and it's usually an easy 5 yd gain. Anybody remember those days?

thunderkyss
10-23-2006, 12:13 AM
Step by step, brick by brick. Before this season started, we all would have been incredibly happy and surprised to see Carr playing this well. Kubiak is still working with him and he'll continue to make improvement.

I really expected Carr to look really bad the first few games of this season. So I'm just tickled battle red by his play.

I completely & totally agree. I'm not complaining, just saying.

HJam72 was trying to minimize a good observation by Tayton, & I was just backing Tayton up.

I'm seeing these little pieces starting to line up, and I like what Kubes is cooking. But to lose focus & say, "See David's the greatest" is weak. We should all expect David to continue to progress, or we'll end up with a Bledsoe 10 years from now, still thinking that he can win the big game if we could just get him enough time.......

thunderkyss
10-23-2006, 12:20 AM
:stirpot:
Please help me understand why the 2nd quarter is meaningless. It must be, the Texans scored 10 points in the 2nd, including a TD pass by Carr. I already understand that when Carr had success in the 4th quarter, that is was meaningless because the 4th quarter is just garbage time. The fact that we scored 17 points in the 4th is more proof of how bad Carr is. A QB who does well in the 4th quarter _YECH!! Nothing could be worse!

I also understand that 1st quarter scores are meaningless because Carr had some TD passes in the 1st quarter this year. Why those plays are scripted and the QB has no impact!
:sarcasm:
But now I am confused. Please explain why the 2nd quarter is irrelevant, and only the 3rd quarter has any meaning. Thanks for your help!

Bob, let me explain it to you. Unless we can't have Kubiak script every play of every possession, & present these scripts to the QB a day in advance, we'll be at a serious disadvantage when it's time to play football.

scoring 10 points in the second Qtr is huge...... that's what we've been asking for. Now if we can get this TEAM(which just happens to be lead by DavidCarr on offense) to score in the 3rd QTr, we'd be onto something. Then we can start working on scoring in all 4 Qtrs in the same game. That would be special.

But scoring 2 touchdowns in the 4th Qtr when you started the Qtr down by 31. it's meaningless. If we could've scored a touchdown in the 1st, 2nd, and/or 3rd Qtr, those 2 touchdowns in the 4th would have meant something.

MrMcNair, I'm really surprised that I'm having to explain this to you. Look, instead of hosting that Boar for the next home game(George that is) invite me to your box, and I'll show you a few more things that will help your franchise win more games.

touttail
10-23-2006, 06:22 AM
Well, I have been yelling until I'm blue in the face why we should be doing this. Its nice that someone else recognizes what the 49ers use to do. Actually they used the attack to set up the run later in the game. You pass until the other team believes you are going to do nothing, but pass the ball. At that point you can effectively run the ball and that's what happened today. When Carr, AJ, Walters, and Moulds started having an effect, they relaxed on the run and Lundy had some fun. When it was crunch time and we tried to move the ball we were generally ineffective. They knew what was coming.
If you go to game quotes you will see a reference to Moulds and how he blocked 3 guys to spring Lundy. People have no idea how valueable this guy is. He helps in so many areas, but he probably will never get the billing of AJ or others. He's an older player with a lot of savvy. He knows how get it done. If he imparts just have his wisdom on our receivers we will be a force to reckon with. Oh,yes Kubiak did give him the game ball today for his 700 reception. Only 23 others have done that. I think Kubiak understands the other part of what he does very well.



Hell when they took out AJ and Molds, replaced them with Shepperd and Walters, I even knew a run was coming. Does Kubes think he's fooling anyone with this set????????

Bobby 119C

thunderkyss
10-23-2006, 07:56 AM
Scoring 2 TDs in the 4th quarter when you are down by 31 means you are still trying and didn't open a big can of quit. I also think scoring a TD in the 4th when you are up by 4 points (vs Miami), or 2 TDs when you are up by 3 points (vs Jacksonville) is important - but I'm sure that it is really just meaningless running up the score (note: credit to defense for the short field in the 4th quarter vs Jax).

If I was the real Bob McNair, I would invite you to the owners box - if your wife is as good looking as Barbara.

If you can't see the difference between Scoring a touchdown in the 4th Qtr, when you are down by three scores, and scoring a touchdown when you are up by 3 points, or 4 points...........

....... well, I can see why I'm the only one arguing with you.

real
10-23-2006, 08:01 AM
Hell when they took out AJ and Molds, replaced them with Shepperd and Walters, I even knew a run was coming. Does Kubes think he's fooling anyone with this set????????

Bobby 119C

Why does that set mean a run is coming ???

dalemurphy
10-23-2006, 08:09 AM
Throwing deep is going to be a challenge until we have a respectable running games. First, we are almost always going against a two-deep shell. Second, the LBs can take quick and deep drops in the passing game due to the lack of respect for our running game.

thunderkyss
10-23-2006, 08:11 AM
Throwing deep is going to be a challenge until we have a respectable running games. First, we are almost always going against a two-deep shell. Second, the LBs can take quick and deep drops in the passing game due to the lack of respect for our running game.

Then you hit your tightend in the middle of the field, 15 yards from scrimmage.

Or the fullback 10 yards from scrimmage.

chuckm
10-23-2006, 08:21 AM
Carr took two big shots downfield. One was intercepted, and we got lucky. The other was that touchdown..... so I don't know.

I admit that I too criticize David for not stretching the field. If the passing game is going to open the running game, it's the throws that stretch the field, that is going to do it. the short passes, force the defense to play where we don't want them, closer to the line, making it more difficult to run the ball. We need the deep pass to back them up.

Now I was cussing Carr all game, because I thought the reason we got Moulds was to force one on one coverage, and challenge that coverage, thinking we should win more times than not.

That doesn't appear to be in Carr's makeup, or he just hasn't got used to Molds just yet. I say this because I see AJ & Moulds running in single coverage often from 608.

Then I got to thinking...... every now and again, you'll see Peyton, Palmer, or McNabb making some tight throws..... but most of the time, ReggieWayne is wide open. Reggie Brown is Wide open, who'sYourMamma is wide open...

& that's because of play design. Why would anybody ever leave Westbrook uncovered?? Play design... The LB/Safety has to make a decision, and neither is ever a good decision.

I haven't seen any of our plays that do the same thing... except that bootleg OwenScored his 3rd touchdown on.... (2 rookies on our team combine for 4 touchdowns..... wow. 3 out of the passing game, 1 out of the running game... what more could anyone expect from the '06 draft??)

I understand the play action gets that for us, but I think we need to draw up some plays that attack the LB/Safety.


I could've swore we won yesterday .... wait, we did ...

Big week for you TK ....

TK's spins for week #8

Texans win: Vince played well but is a rookie, wait'll Dec 10th
Titans win: (no description necessary)

goodnews boy
10-23-2006, 08:29 AM
Carr didn't throw down the field last year either and we weren't running the west coast offense then. So what's there to chew on?

Carr didn't throw down field last year because he didn't have time.

TheOgre
10-23-2006, 08:51 AM
I think the 3rd Qtr. is meaningless too. :hides:

This offense has been horrible in the 3rd and great in the 4th, would you rather it be the opposite?

thunderkyss
10-23-2006, 09:37 AM
I could've swore we won yesterday .... wait, we did ...

Big week for you TK ....

TK's spins for week #8

Texans win: Vince played well but is a rookie, wait'll Dec 10th
Titans win: (no description necessary)

Im saying right now, that I don't think Vince is good enough to carry his team to a win this year, not even against Oakland. Which is why we have to stop the run, and forget about Vince.

Same thing on Dec 10th. Which I think we'll also win.

& the post you have quoting me is not a knock on Carr, I'm calling out our play design. Had AJ beat that Corner deep, and Carr underthrew it like that, I'd be calling Carr out(Like the one he threw to Walter, who had the corner beat to the back of the endzone, but Carr underthrew it). But since he underthrew a ball that gave AJ a chance to make a play, it was perfect.

If you can't see AJ & Eric running in single coverage when Carr throw's the swing pass, or Eric wide open in the middle when Carr stared down AJ, I can understand your frustration. But if you can see what I can, then you'd see mine.

I think Carr has all the tools to be one of the Best QBs in the league, and I'm convinced he is tougher than nails.... but the opportunities for him to take the next step have been presented to him countless times, and he's failed to take that step.

& that's ok...... we won.... I'm not complaining about him. Just saying if we design better plays, it'll make it easier for Carr to take that next step.

Texans Horror
10-23-2006, 10:07 AM
Carr is playing exceptional ball right now, and it is being helped by his receivers. AND...THAT'S OKAY. I think every quarterback gets help from his receivers. That's partly what makes them a great QB. I have no complaints with Carr. He is the QB we hoped he would be. It's not a question of whether he will be good in a couple of years. He's the fifth best right now. That's fantastic. It's the other guys I'm concerned about, like the line. They have to protect him better. And the running game has to improve by leaps and bounds.

Glacier
10-23-2006, 10:27 AM
To me, in time, the Texans will be able to go a little more vertical.

I honesty do believe that it takes a couple of seasons for a coach to drill his philosophy into a team. Not to mention, it takes some time to assemble players that you feel might fit your system.

Right now, the dink and dunk passing game isn't necessarily simply because the Texans are running a flavor of the WC offense. It is more about not having DD in the backfield and trying to make due with what is available to the team.

Remember, that Kubiak's style of WC offense is very much a run oriented style of offense.

That said, Carr...what the heck has gotten into him? Was it really coaching all along? He is really turning into an elite QB this season.

SESupergenius
10-23-2006, 11:38 AM
I think Carr has all the tools to be one of the Best QBs in the league, and I'm convinced he is tougher than nails.... but the opportunities for him to take the next step have been presented to him countless times, and he's failed to take that step.

& that's ok...... we won.... I'm not complaining about him. Just saying if we design better plays, it'll make it easier for Carr to take that next step.

Carr definitley took a step today towards being a great QB. He had no turnovers, sacks or fumbles, especially in the 1st half when our running game was non-existant. I don't know what foggy glasses you using, but today's game Carr did all the correct things. He threw deep to AJ and did what he normally wouldn't do...he let the receiver make the play. Wow what a concept. He saw the safety was going to be late in making a play and with deep one on one coverage (like bradfords infamous miscatch last year), he went for it. He spread the ball around nicely, he found all kinds of receivers, a tribute to the offensive, and did all the necessary things to have a great game. The boots were working in the second half because we suddenly found a running game, imagine that. He had a great game and turned the corner, there is no questioning that. There is no "late game garbage time" to fault him this time, but please Carr haters, continue to look obvious in your sights.

thunderkyss
10-23-2006, 12:07 PM
Carr definitley took a step today towards being a great QB. He had no turnovers, sacks or fumbles,

You do understand these are part of the reasons our offense has sputtered since the beggining of the season??

especially in the 1st half when our running game was non-existant.

Our running game was avg at best against the defenses we faced. Jacksonville gives up 98 ypg when they have their best players on the field. Our running game was going to look better, regardless who we put in the game.

Gado & Lundy would look just like Dayne & Gado against Miami & Denver. Lundy didn't look any better Sunday than he did against Philly, and he did worse than Dayne against Indy.


I don't know what foggy glasses you using, but today's game Carr did all the correct things.

He played good enough to win, and that's all that's important.


He threw deep to AJ and did what he normally wouldn't do...he let the receiver make the play. Wow what a concept. He saw the safety was going to be late in making a play and with deep one on one coverage (like bradfords infamous miscatch last year), he went for it.

First the Safety wasn't late, Aj was just better than he was.

Second, that's not the first time David's done that.. that's the first time this year that he's done it right..... against StL in the preseason, he threw the ball to the outside, when AJ had inside position. Against Washington, he threw it inside when AJ had the corner beat over the top, and he under threw Walter in the endzone, when he should have put it over his head.

He spread the ball around nicely, he found all kinds of receivers, a tribute to the offensive, and did all the necessary things to have a great game.

he's been doing this pretty well all year

The boots were working in the second half because we suddenly found a running game, imagine that.

I beleive the third play of the Washington game was a great play off the boot... set up by two consecutive run plays for decent gains

He had a great game and turned the corner, there is no questioning that. There is no "late game garbage time" to fault him this time, but please Carr haters, continue to look obvious in your sights.

Do I look obvious in your sights?? did you mean obvious in "our" sights??

no matter. If this is the David Carr you want.... great, here he is. This is the same guy who threw for 3400 yards in 2004 against weak defenses.

I want the guy that will punish the defense for blitzing, I want the guy who will punish the defense for being so arrogant to put a linebacker over EricMoulds, or a midget on OwenDaniels.... I want the guy that will show DCs that they could knock him down all day long, and he'll still win the game.

you think I'm hating on Carr?? get out of here. I'm hating on the JakePlummer wannabe or the TrentDilfer V2.0 that you want him to be. I think he can be much better than those guys, on the level with Palmer, Brady, Manning(Peyton), and McNabb...... just as good, just as dominating, but different. I'm thinking a cross between Aikman & Marino.

Right now, David is deceptively dangerous. I want him to be Dangerous.

real
10-23-2006, 12:17 PM
He saw the safety was going to be late in making a play and with deep one on one coverage (like bradfords infamous miscatch last year), he went for it.


I think you are underanalyzing the play.....David Held the safety in the middle of the field with his eyes....A.J was the #1 option on that play....It wasn't that he "went" for it....He just did a good job holding the safety, and didn't have to check down....

SESupergenius
10-23-2006, 12:35 PM
You do understand these are part of the reasons our offense has sputtered since the beggining of the season?? 3 reasons why our offense has sputtered. New scheme, no running game, line protection. Same old song the last 5 years.


Our running game was avg at best against the defenses we faced. Jacksonville gives up 98 ypg when they have their best players on the field. Our running game was going to look better, regardless who we put in the game.Our running wasn't even average, but this type of offense is geared towards the play action pass...no running game directly influences the ability to pass. It's simple, if the running game gets going it opens the playbook for the pass as we saw in the 2nd half yesterday. It's no coincidence that the running game was great the second half and our passing game score points.


Gado & Lundy would look just like Dayne & Gado against Miami & Denver. Lundy didn't look any better Sunday than he did against Philly, and he did worse than Dayne against Indy. Again, I don't know what game you are watching but I watched the one where Lundy had the biggest gain all season by any of our running backs, gained first downs, and almost 100 yards rushing. I don't even seen how you can compare that. Kubiak took time out for him to learn the system a little better and gain some knowledge. He comes in a plays lights out. Lundy looked way better than any running back up this point, stats prove it and the live game proved it.

He played good enough to win, and that's all that's important.Good enough to win is the Miami game, this was great game for him and the offense, the offense scored 27 points, that's more than just good enough, that's a pounding.


First the Safety wasn't late, Aj was just better than he was.Safety was late because he didn't blanket him and Carr wouldn't have thrown deep if the safety picked up AJ on time. It was a perfect throw, but I guess to everyone that has a knock on Carr it was just lucky.


Second, that's not the first time David's done that.. that's the first time this year that he's done it right..... against StL in the preseason, he threw the ball to the outside, when AJ had inside position. Against Washington, he threw it inside when AJ had the corner beat over the top, and he under threw Walter in the endzone, when he should have put it over his head.
No interceptions is no interceptions. With 2 TD's a no Int's and over a 70% completion percentage, that is a great game in my book, I don't care how they are catching it. Maybe your standards are higher.

he's been doing this pretty well all yearHe's had turnovers in most games, this game there were none, not 1 can be attributed to him. Add all that together and that is a great all-around game.


I beleive the third play of the Washington game was a great play off the boot... set up by two consecutive run plays for decent gainsbut it wasn't consistant enough to respect the run. the 2nd half opened some doors because once we got the lead they Jags had to play the run more.


Do I look obvious in your sights?? did you mean obvious in "our" sights??
your=you all,y'all, everyone that is in the group mention. It wouldn't be "our" because I am not included in that group.

no matter. If this is the David Carr you want.... great, here he is. This is the same guy who threw for 3400 yards in 2004 against weak defenses.Ok, I'll take the David Carr from 2004 and add a West Coast offense, good TE, Eric Moulds and different offensive line. I'll take that any day, THANKS! No give me the defense from 2002 and we are set for a good run in 2007.


I want the guy that will punish the defense for blitzing, I want the guy who will punish the defense for being so arrogant to put a linebacker over EricMoulds, or a midget on OwenDaniels.... I want the guy that will show DCs that they could knock him down all day long, and he'll still win the game.


you think I'm hating on Carr?? get out of here. I'm hating on the JakePlummer wannabe or the TrentDilfer V2.0 that you want him to be. I think he can be much better than those guys, on the level with Palmer, Brady, Manning(Peyton), and McNabb...... just as good, just as dominating, but different. I'm thinking a cross between Aikman & Marino.
Then your thoughts are misquided. He's got the talent to be a an above average QB, a top 10 QB sometimes, but the success of this team will be the put on the success of the defense. That is where you should look more than the QB position. I know offense get all the glory and neat to look at with highlight tapes, but the defense is the one that'll "get er done."

Right now, David is deceptively dangerous. I want him to be Dangerous.After a full year in the WC offense under kubiak, he will be dangerous. I for one that we were going to have a slow start because we've played some very good teams. I was hoping a better effort after the bye against Dallas, but they are still on par with my prediction of 6-10. I thought the 2nd half of the season we were going to shake the newness off of all these off-season changes and start to gain some cohesion. We are on our way.

SESupergenius
10-23-2006, 12:37 PM
I think you are underanalyzing the play.....David Held the safety in the middle of the field with his eyes....A.J was the #1 option on that play....It wasn't that he "went" for it....He just did a good job holding the safety, and didn't have to check down....
Troll. Being late is the same thing as saying David held the safety at bay. It's a cause and effect. Nice staing the obvious.

real
10-23-2006, 12:50 PM
Troll. Being late is the same thing as saying David held the safety at bay. It's a cause and effect. Nice staing the obvious.

no....

You said "he saw the safety was going to be late"....

That's not the same as saying "he held the safety with his eyes"...

SESupergenius
10-23-2006, 12:54 PM
no....

You said "he saw the safety was going to be late"....

That's not the same as saying "he held the safety with his eyes"...

Where's that roll your eyes smilie....oh there it is. :rolleyes:

Let's see, if he's looking that the safety and notices that he's going to be late to the ball, then guess what. HE'S STARING DOWN THE SAFETY! :whip:

Now go away before you get hurt again.

real
10-23-2006, 12:57 PM
Where's that roll your eyes smilie....oh there it is. :rolleyes:

Let's see, if he's looking that the safety and notices that he's going to be late to the ball, they guess what. HE'S STARING DOWN THE SAFETY! :whip:

Now go away before you get hurt again.

I was told you were pretty football litterate....

I'm seriously doubting that now...


First of all...when you are looking off the safety you aren't looking at the safety...you are looking at another reciever....

David may not have even seen the safety...you don't know that....

SESupergenius
10-23-2006, 12:58 PM
I was told you were pretty football literate....

I'm seriously doubting that now...

Don't just babble, have some substance. It's as plain as day. Another Truely Royal weak take.

ansuz118
10-23-2006, 12:59 PM
why complain a win no matter if you throw down field or not is a win he did a good job

real
10-23-2006, 01:06 PM
Don't just babble, have some substance. It's as plain as day. Another Truely Royal weak take.

This was your original statement...

He saw the safety was going to be late in making a play and with deep one on one coverage (like bradfords infamous miscatch last year), he went for it.

I just simply pointed out that that isn't what happened....

You are saying it as if David dropped back and noticed the safety wouldn't be able to come over the top and help out on A.J....

That isn't what happened...

D.Carr may not have even seen the safety...

SESupergenius
10-23-2006, 01:12 PM
D.Carr may not have even seen the safety...He may not have even seen AJ...but he did. Come back when you have something. Maybe photo forensic evidence or something because you can not be a reliable witness.

real
10-23-2006, 01:14 PM
He may not have even seen AJ...but he did. Come back when you have something. Maybe photo forensic evidence or something because you can not be a reliable witness.

Well I heard D.Carr on 610 this morning...the man described the play just as I did above...

So you can chew on that and if you have any problems with how I described what the man said out of his own mouth then you need to tell David what he said is wrong....don't shoot the messenger.....shoot yourself instead....:lightbulb:

real
10-23-2006, 01:17 PM
His exact words were:

"My only job on that play was to LOOK THE SAFETY OFF"

SESupergenius
10-23-2006, 01:24 PM
His exact words were:

"My only job on that play was to LOOK THE SAFETY OFF"
OK so he did look off the safety, held him at bay, noticed the safety wasn't going to get to AJ in time and he looked at AJ and thew the ball. What the heck are you arguing?

Kaiser Toro
10-23-2006, 01:27 PM
What the heck am I reading?

SESupergenius
10-23-2006, 01:29 PM
I don't know it's like some wierd parallel universe thread. Yes it is, not it isn't, no it isn't, yes it is.

real
10-23-2006, 01:30 PM
What the heck are you arguing?

My first response...

I think you are underanalyzing the play.....David Held the safety in the middle of the field with his eyes....A.J was the #1 option on that play....It wasn't that he "went" for it....He just did a good job holding the safety, and didn't have to check down....

Sorry if that sounded argumentative...:rolleyes:

chuckm
10-23-2006, 01:54 PM
Carr was 49 - 55 for 873 yards with no turnovers or fumbles during warmups ... Rosenfels was equally impressive though

SESupergenius
10-23-2006, 02:16 PM
I once had a puppy, it was dog.

thunderkyss
10-23-2006, 04:49 PM
3 reasons why our offense has sputtered. New scheme, no running game, line protection. Same old song the last 5 years.

so David giving the ball to Indy on our 20 on our 1st & second possesions of the game had nothing to do with it?? I mean we should expect that with a new scheme, poorly utilized running game, and poor line protection??

none of these balls were stripped mind you.

Our running wasn't even average, but this type of offense is geared towards the play action pass...no running game directly influences the ability to pass. It's simple, if the running game gets going it opens the playbook for the pass as we saw in the 2nd half yesterday. It's no coincidence that the running game was great the second half and our passing game score points.


Again, you show you don't know what the heck you're talking about. Before the half, in both the Indy & Washington game, our running game was pretty avg.... getting 8 & 11 yard runs, picking up every 1st down they were asked to, and picking up positive yards on 1st & second down.

We stopped running the ball, because we were behind by multiple scores.

Philly, we stopped running too early for no reason. We were getting good yards from Morency & Lundy in the second half, and the score was manageable.

Again, I don't know what game you are watching but I watched the one where Lundy had the biggest gain all season by any of our running backs, gained first downs, and almost 100 yards rushing. I don't even seen how you can compare that. Kubiak took time out for him to learn the system a little better and gain some knowledge. He comes in a plays lights out. Lundy looked way better than any running back up this point, stats prove it and the live game proved it.

He played no differently than he did against Philly & Indy. If we'd have given him the ball in the second half of those games, he would have got the same results.

Good enough to win is the Miami game, this was great game for him and the offense, the offense scored 27 points, that's more than just good enough, that's a pounding.

That was a great game. Great Defense, Andre had a great game.... Carr had a good game..... sorry, he played good enough.


Safety was late because he didn't blanket him and Carr wouldn't have thrown deep if the safety picked up AJ on time. It was a perfect throw, but I guess to everyone that has a knock on Carr it was just lucky.

Andre took the ball out of the Safeties hands, how can that be late??



No interceptions is no interceptions. With 2 TD's a no Int's and over a 70% completion percentage, that is a great game in my book, I don't care how they are catching it. Maybe your standards are higher.

I think it's obvious that my standards are higher.

He's had turnovers in most games, this game there were none, not 1 can be attributed to him. Add all that together and that is a great all-around game.

He's had turnovers in most games
Those are your words.

but it wasn't consistant enough to respect the run. the 2nd half opened some doors because once we got the lead they Jags had to play the run more.

Again, it's not that the running wasn't consistent, we had to abandon it to try to catch up.



your=you all,y'all, everyone that is in the group mention. It wouldn't be "our" because I am not included in that group.

Ok, I'll take the David Carr from 2004 and add a West Coast offense, good TE, Eric Moulds and different offensive line. I'll take that any day, THANKS! No give me the defense from 2002 and we are set for a good run in 2007.





Then your thoughts are misquided. He's got the talent to be a an above average QB, a top 10 QB sometimes, but the success of this team will be the put on the success of the defense. That is where you should look more than the QB position. I know offense get all the glory and neat to look at with highlight tapes, but the defense is the one that'll "get er done."

I'm done talking to you. If this is all you expect out of a #1 overall...... or an $8 million contract extension, it's better if you and I do not discuss QBs any more.

chuckm
10-23-2006, 04:52 PM
Carr was 49 - 55 for 873 yards with no turnovers or fumbles during warmups ... Rosenfels was equally impressive though

I just reviewed the pre-game tape ... David was actually 50 - 55 ... my bad

michaelm
10-23-2006, 04:52 PM
Troll. Being late is the same thing as saying David held the safety at bay. It's a cause and effect. Nice staing the obvious.


Is that Troll in the classic message board meaning of the word, or more like the 'lives under the bridge and won't let you cross' meaning.

Unless I'm mistaken, describing someone as a troll who has nearly 400 more posts than you might be a misuse of the word... now me, on the other hand, you can call a troll...

chuckm
10-23-2006, 04:53 PM
I once had a puppy, it was dog.

yea right ....... everyone says that but no one can prove it ....

Texanfan4ever
10-23-2006, 05:06 PM
:stirpot:
Please help me understand why the 2nd quarter is meaningless. It must be, the Texans scored 10 points in the 2nd, including a TD pass by Carr. I already understand that when Carr had success in the 4th quarter, that is was meaningless because the 4th quarter is just garbage time. The fact that we scored 17 points in the 4th is more proof of how bad Carr is. A QB who does well in the 4th quarter _YECH!! Nothing could be worse!

I also understand that 1st quarter scores are meaningless because Carr had some TD passes in the 1st quarter this year. Why those plays are scripted and the QB has no impact!
:sarcasm:
But now I am confused. Please explain why the 2nd quarter is irrelevant, and only the 3rd quarter has any meaning. Thanks for your help!

Ha ha!! Good post! Take that you Carr haters!!! They will still be around when we win the superbowl someday and have all the reasons then too for why Carr is a loser. Unbelievable!!

chuckm
10-23-2006, 05:09 PM
Carr took two big shots downfield. One was intercepted, and we got lucky. The other was that touchdown..... so I don't know.

I admit that I too criticize David for not stretching the field. If the passing game is going to open the running game, it's the throws that stretch the field, that is going to do it. the short passes, force the defense to play where we don't want them, closer to the line, making it more difficult to run the ball. We need the deep pass to back them up.

Now I was cussing Carr all game, because I thought the reason we got Moulds was to force one on one coverage, and challenge that coverage, thinking we should win more times than not.

That doesn't appear to be in Carr's makeup, or he just hasn't got used to Molds just yet. I say this because I see AJ & Moulds running in single coverage often from 608.

Then I got to thinking...... every now and again, you'll see Peyton, Palmer, or McNabb making some tight throws..... but most of the time, ReggieWayne is wide open. Reggie Brown is Wide open, who'sYourMamma is wide open...

& that's because of play design. Why would anybody ever leave Westbrook uncovered?? Play design... The LB/Safety has to make a decision, and neither is ever a good decision.

I haven't seen any of our plays that do the same thing... except that bootleg OwenScored his 3rd touchdown on.... (2 rookies on our team combine for 4 touchdowns..... wow. 3 out of the passing game, 1 out of the running game... what more could anyone expect from the '06 draft??)

I understand the play action gets that for us, but I think we need to draw up some plays that attack the LB/Safety.


It's ironic that you would post this ..... last week there was no shortage of posts detailing the lack of a running game as reason for Carr's "bad" game ..... yet there followed a surplus of posts by [John Facenda's Voice]"veteran"[/John Facenda's Voice] message board members reminding us that good teams (and good quarterbacks) win even in the absence of a dependable running game ... so this week we do what's necessary to win, yet we still read that "we", meaning the Texans, threw a disproportionate amount of short passes .....

You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't ----- Bart Simpson

TK ----- please submit your Tennessee gameplan on Tuesday so that the coaches can digest it prior to Wednesday

Honoring Earl 34
10-23-2006, 05:49 PM
All QBs should have some gunslinger in them . Favre used to be considered great when he threw the ball up to let his WRs go get it . Favre is not considered so great now because he does'nt have the WRs there to go get it .

As far as Carr goes ... after the Jaguars scored on the first drive of the 3rd quarter , I really thought it was important to answer the score with at least a couple of first downs . That did not happen and I thought ... here we go again . The defense ( Peek ) made the play of the game and Carr and the offense redeemed themselves nicely .

Texanfan4ever
10-23-2006, 06:00 PM
Bob, let me explain it to you. Unless we can't have Kubiak script every play of every possession, & present these scripts to the QB a day in advance, we'll be at a serious disadvantage when it's time to play football.

scoring 10 points in the second Qtr is huge...... that's what we've been asking for. Now if we can get this TEAM(which just happens to be lead by DavidCarr on offense) to score in the 3rd QTr, we'd be onto something. Then we can start working on scoring in all 4 Qtrs in the same game. That would be special.

But scoring 2 touchdowns in the 4th Qtr when you started the Qtr down by 31. it's meaningless. If we could've scored a touchdown in the 1st, 2nd, and/or 3rd Qtr, those 2 touchdowns in the 4th would have meant something.

MrMcNair, I'm really surprised that I'm having to explain this to you. Look, instead of hosting that Boar for the next home game(George that is) invite me to your box, and I'll show you a few more things that will help your franchise win more games.


Thanks for enlightening us all to why you feel the way you do. It's either Carr's fault or Bush's in your book I'm sure.

thunderkyss
10-23-2006, 06:19 PM
You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't ----- Bart Simpson

TK ----- please submit your Tennessee gameplan on Tuesday so that the coaches can digest it prior to Wednesday


Now don't go blaming the coaches. They have recievers running deeper routes, they are getting the one on one coverage that we said AJ & Eric will thrive on. We've seen one safety, and we've seen the middle of the field wide open. We've seen Eric Moulds covered by LBs & OwenDAniels covered by midgets, but David will throw the underneath route everytime.

& I have nothing against the underneath route, or the RBs in the flat, but if it's 3rd & 10, there better be 10 yards of empty field in front of that RB, and we better not have single coverage on either of our ProBowl WRs....

Kaiser Toro
10-23-2006, 06:23 PM
Now don't go blaming the coaches. They have recievers running deeper routes, they are getting the one on one coverage that we said AJ & Eric will thrive on. We've seen one safety, and we've seen the middle of the field wide open. We've seen Eric Moulds covered by LBs & OwenDAniels covered by midgets, but David will throw the underneath route everytime.

& I have nothing against the underneath route, or the RBs in the flat, but if it's 3rd & 10, there better be 10 yards of empty field in front of that RB, and we better not have single coverage on either of our ProBowl WRs....

I do not think you addressed the question, but I cannot debate your take, except for midgets covering Owen Daniels. I will go back and watch the other games, but I do not recall any midgets on the opposing side.

thunderkyss
10-23-2006, 06:25 PM
Thanks for enlightening us all to why you feel the way you do. It's either Carr's fault or Bush's in your book I'm sure.

What are you talking about?? I love W... he's my boy, & I totally support what he is doing in Iraq..... I blame him for the gas prices thing....... letting it get out of hand, and not drilling in ANWAR, but that's another argument altogether.


David, can be better. I trust with Kubiak, he will be better. Kubiak isn't going to have to hide his shortcomings like he has had to do with Plummer.

I don't get what the big deal is.

thunderkyss
10-23-2006, 06:28 PM
I do not think you addressed the question, but I cannot debate your take, except for midgets covering Owen Daniels. I will go back and watch the other games, but I do not recall any midgets on the opposing side.

Aaron Glenn is a midget, and the LB Jacksonville Matched up on Eric & Owen in the slot was a midget.

Kaiser Toro
10-23-2006, 06:32 PM
Aaron Glenn is a midget, and the LB Jacksonville Matched up on Eric & Owen in the slot was a midget.

You are wonderfully absurd at times. :)

Lucky
10-23-2006, 06:42 PM
Aaron Glenn is a midget, and the LB Jacksonville Matched up on Eric & Owen in the slot was a midget.
I pity the fool that goes up against this midget

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/MikeEMonster/littleT.jpg

Kaiser Toro
10-23-2006, 06:48 PM
I pity the fool that goes up against this midget

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/MikeEMonster/littleT.jpg

Easily the early leader in polling to be the official Patron Saint of Nickle Back Midgets.

chuckm
10-23-2006, 06:59 PM
You are wonderfully absurd at times. :)

You're half right ....

cuppacoffee
10-23-2006, 07:00 PM
Now don't go blaming the coaches. They have recievers running deeper routes, they are getting the one on one coverage that we said AJ & Eric will thrive on. We've seen one safety, and we've seen the middle of the field wide open. We've seen Eric Moulds covered by LBs & OwenDAniels covered by midgets, but David will throw the underneath route everytime.

& I have nothing against the underneath route, or the RBs in the flat, but if it's 3rd & 10, there better be 10 yards of empty field in front of that RB, and we better not have single coverage on either of our ProBowl WRs....

TK, your TIVO has a far worse case of tunnel vision than what you ascribe to Carr.



:coffee:

infantrycak
10-23-2006, 07:28 PM
Aaron Glenn is a midget

Proof that you can let people define themselves.

thunderkyss
10-23-2006, 08:54 PM
Proof that you can let people define themselves.

Is it, or is it not a mismatch in our favor based on size??

infantrycak
10-23-2006, 09:36 PM
Is it, or is it not a mismatch in our favor based on size??

Yes everytime a QB sees a 5' 9" Aaron Glenn (multiple pro-bowler) they should assume anyone taller is a mismatch or maybe a 5' 10" Dunta Robinson, or 5' 10" DeAngelo Hall or 5' 10" Ronde Barber or 5' 10" Nathan Vasher--especially on a TE no taller than WR's they cover every day like AJ, Roy Williams, Javon Walker, Keyshawn Johnson. But no--you have cracked the case.

Carr Bombed
10-23-2006, 09:53 PM
Yall do realize that Carr has a 7.08 ypa avg. Only .78 ypa behind P. Manning. Anytime you can avg. more than 7 yards a comp. its gravy

People need to remember this is also his first year and a very complex offense, he has done great so far and is the only QB comp. 70% of his passes. I mean really what the heck is there to complain about......really. I'll take that all day long. Once the running game gets going you'll see this whole offense open up, thats what we are missing. Carr and the passing game is the last of our problems.

infantrycak
10-23-2006, 10:39 PM
Once the running game gets going you'll see this whole offense open up

And that "once" is still a long way off. We entered the 4th qtr with something like 30 yds at 2.1 ypc. It was abysmal until Lundy came in and had two long runs plus a Carr run which pumped the ypa to for the game to stats which didn't reflect the run game at all.

3.9 ypc--still not great--is better than the 2.0 ypc vs. Dallas but does not demonstrate an effective running game.

thunderkyss
10-23-2006, 10:49 PM
Yes everytime a QB sees a 5' 9" Aaron Glenn (multiple pro-bowler) they should assume anyone taller is a mismatch or maybe a 5' 10" Dunta Robinson, or 5' 10" DeAngelo Hall or 5' 10" Ronde Barber or 5' 10" Nathan Vasher--especially on a TE no taller than WR's they cover every day like AJ, Roy Williams, Javon Walker, Keyshawn Johnson. But no--you have cracked the case.

Are you just jumping into the middle of an argument, or do you know what all we are talking about.

You don't see OwenDaniels on AaronGlenn is a mismatch?? in our favor??

Carr Bombed
10-23-2006, 10:50 PM
The running game will eventually come around, if not with the backs we have this year, then with someone else next year. Kubiak has always had a good running game, just got to be patient.

Carr Bombed
10-23-2006, 10:52 PM
A. Glenn is now a mismatch because of his age and declining skills, but in his prime, I would take A. Glenn hands down.

real
10-24-2006, 07:43 AM
... and a very complex offense....

Not true....

Kaiser Toro
10-24-2006, 07:54 AM
I am not sure where I have seen any Carr hating going on as of late, but there is certainly a voice that could only care about how well Carr did and is promoting a beautiful strawman for the upcoming Harvest moon.

HeartofHouston
10-24-2006, 10:38 AM
Carr hater need to get off his back in their opinion no matter what Carr does it's never going to be good enough. He's playing well in this offense.. not spectacular but very well considering that it's his first season under Kubes.

I'm just amp'd up to see what we can do next year with a little more talent around him on the offensive line a better running back situation. Also with another year under his belt and another year with kube in his ear.

eriadoc
10-24-2006, 10:41 AM
Are you just jumping into the middle of an argument, or do you know what all we are talking about.

You don't see OwenDaniels on AaronGlenn is a mismatch?? in our favor??

Based on size, it's not a mismatch, because skill can overcome size. Based on AG's diminishing skills due to age, it's a mismatch in our favor. Size has little to do with it.

real
10-24-2006, 10:44 AM
Based on size, it's not a mismatch, because skill can overcome size. Based on AG's diminishing skills due to age, it's a mismatch in our favor. Size has little to do with it.

I wouldn't say size has "little" to do with it....A size disadvantage can be overcome....But size defintely plays a role in football...

eriadoc
10-24-2006, 10:55 AM
I wouldn't say size has "little" to do with it....A size disadvantage can be overcome....But size defintely plays a role in football...

I guess I should have clarified my statement - In this case (AG vs. OD), size has little to do with it. AG in his prime would eat OD alive.

As an aside, however, the game seems to be changing again to focus on speed and quickness as opposed to size in some positions. For a while, all you could hear about were the big, physical WRs. Today, there are some small WRs making a big impact. Smallish CBs have always held their own against the larger WRs if they are highly skilled (AG, Bailey, our own Robinson, Hall, etc.), and it seems like whenever a team is willing to give an "undersized" MLB a chance, he usually plays well. I'm sure perception has a lot to do with this view, but I can probably come up with a pretty extensive list of current players who lack ideal size and perform well against larger players.

thunderkyss
10-24-2006, 11:27 AM
I guess I should have clarified my statement - In this case (AG vs. OD), size has little to do with it. AG in his prime would eat OD alive.

As an aside, however, the game seems to be changing again to focus on speed and quickness as opposed to size in some positions. For a while, all you could hear about were the big, physical WRs. Today, there are some small WRs making a big impact. Smallish CBs have always held their own against the larger WRs if they are highly skilled (AG, Bailey, our own Robinson, Hall, etc.), and it seems like whenever a team is willing to give an "undersized" MLB a chance, he usually plays well. I'm sure perception has a lot to do with this view, but I can probably come up with a pretty extensive list of current players who lack ideal size and perform well against larger players.

If Owen gets position on Glenn, it would be difficult for the 5'9" Glenn to stop Owen(6'3") from catching the ball without commiting a penalty. If you watched last night's game, Shockey was boxing out DemarcusWare & Roy Williams... ODaniels on AaronGlenn is a mismatch.

bah007
10-24-2006, 11:29 AM
If Owen gets position on Glenn, it would be difficult for the 5'9" Glenn to stop Owen(6'3") from catching the ball without commiting a penalty. If you watched last night's game, Shockey was boxing out DemarcusWare & Roy Williams... ODaniels on AaronGlenn is a mismatch.

Aaron Glenn is the best cover corner I have ever seen in my life. He could cover Yao Ming on a fade route and knock it away without getting called for interference

real
10-24-2006, 11:31 AM
Aaron Glenn is the best cover corner I have ever seen in my life. He could cover Yao Ming on a fade route and knock it away without getting called for interference

I guess you were born after Deion Sanders retired.....

bah007
10-24-2006, 11:35 AM
I guess you were born after Deon Sanders retired.....

No but Deion was great. But he couldnt stick to guys like Glenn can. And now that pass interference is such a ridiculous penalty a lot of Deion's techniques would be illegal, especially the armbar

hollywood_texan
10-24-2006, 01:58 PM
Carr had another good game. Threw a high completion percentage but seems to be stuck on the hump of the deuce with regard to passing yards.

Two things that Carr needs to do and real soon is:

1. Throw deep over the middle of the field,

2. Throw for more more than 260 yards per game over a 3 to five game stretch.

If he takes care of the deep middle throws (basically, between the hashes), then the yards per game average will take care of itself. That will open up so much of the field with regard to running and passing that this offense would just churn yards like it is nothing.

One thing that really concerns me is that this offense does it's best with a lead and the offense takes too long to get warmed up. I still haven't seen this offense execute the 2 minute drill or come up with a big drive to win a game.

Carr is playing better, but it is really the defense that has improved to allow the offense many tries to score points for a victory.

The last three games, the defense has only allowed three field goals in the first half, whereas the offense has only scored 19 points in that same time frame. Basically, the offense over the past three games has averaged just under a touchdown in the first half or 6.33 points. Let's not forgot the offense still hasn't scored in the 3rd quarter yet this season.

It seems real clear right now that the Texans are not going to win a shoot out or come from behind to win a game.

Defense has really improved, now it is the offense's turn to blow the door down and start chalking up some impressive victories.

eriadoc
10-24-2006, 02:03 PM
Aaron Glenn is the best cover corner I have ever seen in my life. He could cover Yao Ming on a fade route and knock it away without getting called for interference

Not to mention he could beat up Chuck Norris!

bah007
10-24-2006, 02:08 PM
I guess you were born after Deion Sanders retired.....

You really called me out on this and I have to change my mind. I can admit when I'm wrong and you are right. Deion was an all-around stud.

Aaron Glenn is the second best cover corner I have ever seen

HJam72
10-24-2006, 02:21 PM
Aaron Glenn is the second best cover corner I have ever seen

I didn't like losing him, but I never thought he was THAT good.

bah007
10-24-2006, 02:26 PM
I didn't like losing him, but I never thought he was THAT good.

In the prime of his career? He was awesome. He had 23 picks from 98-02 and QBs hardly ever threw toward him. Too bad only 1 of those seasons was with us.

Wordem
10-24-2006, 06:25 PM
To go back to the original post, people criticize David Carr because he isn't that good.

mexican_texan
10-24-2006, 07:00 PM
No but Deion was great. But he couldnt stick to guys like Glenn can. And now that pass interference is such a ridiculous penalty a lot of Deion's techniques would be illegal, especially the armbar
Primetime shut down his half of the field.

Double Barrel
10-24-2006, 07:03 PM
I'm not a fan of Neon Deion, but nobody can take away his dominance at his position. Dude was simply awesome in his prime, and I was glad he played for NFC teams most of the time.

Wolf
10-24-2006, 08:21 PM
I"d still take aaron glen over any CB on the Texans not named D-rob.