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View Full Version : Mario Mario... what to do?


Cheroqui
10-21-2006, 11:12 AM
Ok folks help me out on this one. I have been watching these games and I cannot see every-thing. But is it me or does Mario Williams only know one way? Why is it that when I do lock my eyes onto him he seems to just take a curling arc to try and get to the QB? Does he ever try to fight and come back to the inside??? I just see him go forearm up to forearm like some pre Kung-Fu chi and flow ritual before sparring. Maybe that's why he seems to be to the outside when you do see him get to somebody; usually on a run stop, because he's never on the inside.

Have we ever tried shifting him in and out at DT?, and do you think it would help or force him to "pick a lane" or gap to get in on more plays?

Vinny
10-21-2006, 11:15 AM
I've typed this before but to me...but Williams looks like a prototype 3-4 end. Tall, athletic, strong but rangy enough and has plenty of speed on the edge to battle wco te/fb screens and short action to the flats. He doesn't seem to be a natural pass rusher, but you don't need to be one if you run the 3-4. Oh the irony. Anthony Weaver looks more like a 3-4 DE than a 4-3 DE too.

thunderkyss
10-21-2006, 12:01 PM
I've typed this before but to me...but Williams looks like a prototype 3-4 end. Tall, athletic, strong but rangy enough and has plenty of speed on the edge to battle wco te/fb screens and short action to the flats. He doesn't seem to be a natural pass rusher, but you don't need to be one if you run the 3-4. Oh the irony. Anthony Weaver looks more like a 3-4 DE than a 4-3 DE too. imo of course

I can agree with that, and I even think Weaver is our best tackle. Mario on the other hand, looks more like ChrisCanty & MarcusSpears, than he looks like JasonTaylor or OsiUmenyiora.

Mario's stats even show him to be more of a run stopper, than a pass rushing DE back at NCState, where he played inside as much as he played outside the line.

that said, I think he had an awesome game against Dallas, going outside, and rushing inside from the DE position. He forced some bad throws from Bledsoe, and forced Bledsoe to throw the ball away on several occasions. Given time, I think he'll be exactly what GK is saying he will be, but right now, his instincts are more run oriented.

yes he still makes rookie mistakes, the play where the tightend pinched him into the RT, for JJ's long run, and many of the run plays to his side vs Washington. But he's alos shown flashes of greatness, where he split coverage, and got JJ in the backfield, where came from the weakside to lay a hammer on JJ one yard past the LOS....... & my favorite, where he pushed the triple team into the rushing lane, forcing JJ to the outside, where he eventually got stopped for no gain. The man is going to be a monster, I have no doubt.

phantom17
10-21-2006, 12:18 PM
Great post Thunderkyss! I also think Super Mario will be a great player but will take some time! It's sad that some posters here thinks he IS ALREADY a bust bcuz he hasn't had 20 sacks yet @ this point of his career!

threetoedpete
10-21-2006, 01:59 PM
He hasn't learned to use his hands very well yet. For a comparison watch 44 , the DT with Florida. He uses his hands very, very well. The tallent level has caught up with Mario. He can no longer just be raw and dominate. Give it time. If he's coachable, IMHO ,with all respect to Vinny, it's not a tallent issue. It's a technique issue. He gets his hands play down he will be a monster. Gotta be patient.

Double Barrel
10-21-2006, 02:06 PM
I think Mario needs to be meaner, more aggressive. I don't know if a killer instinct can be coached into a player, or if they just have it. Only time will tell.

Our front four should be a lot more of a pressence than we've seen so far.

Vinny
10-21-2006, 02:12 PM
He hasn't learned to use his hands very well yet. For a comparison watch 44 , the DT with Florida. He uses his hands very, very well. The tallent level has caught up with Mario. He can no longer just be raw and dominate. Give it time. If he's coachable, IMHO ,with all respect to Vinny, it's not a tallent issue. It's a technique issue. He gets his hands play down he will be a monster. Gotta be patient.
I'm not saying he isn't talented. Nothing wrong with being a prototype 3-4 end....On draft day they gave us their reasoning and it was his rush off the edge....well, it's early but he isn't a big time edge rusher. I just think that Mario is more of an ideal fit for our old scheme (for instance Richard Seymour is a hell of a player, he just isn't a big time edge rusher) ....if you don't run a 3-4 you have a bit of a mismatched piece imo.

michaelm
10-21-2006, 03:07 PM
I'm not saying he isn't talented. Nothing wrong with being a prototype 3-4 end....On draft day they gave us their reasoning and it was his rush off the edge....well, it's early but he isn't a big time edge rusher. I just think that Mario is more of an ideal fit for our old scheme (for instance Richard Seymour is a hell of a player, he just isn't a big time edge rusher) ....if you don't run a 3-4 you have a bit of a mismatched piece imo.


Well, I agree that he hasn't shown himself to be a big time edge rusher yet, but I'm not seeing him in my image of a 3-4 DE either...

Good Lord! I think I'm about to call Mario a tweener!

Although he has the ability to take up blockers the way you might like in a 3-4 DL, his pursuit along the line of scrimmage is starting to look more and more like a 4-3 DE to me. But your right, not much of an edge rush up to this point.

In the Dallas game, which IMO is easily Mario's best game, he looked a lot more comfortable, and natural in his assignments. I liked his pursuit, as I said, on a few plays at least.

Lined up at LE, he chased the RB (Jones, I think) down from behind on a rush off (offensive) LT by penetrating and pursuing behind the LOS.

On another play, lined up as RE, he stood his man up, read the play, flowed behind the line on the D side, and stopped a run off the (offensive) RT.

He also had a (looked like solo, but not sure if it was credited as one) open field tackle on Terry Glen down field, maybe 10 or 12 yards.

I think he is really coming on, getting more instinctive, and his aggressiveness is starting to come to the surface.
Sure, there are and will be some rookie misreads and mistakes, but I really like what I'm seeing, personally.

Cheroqui
10-21-2006, 04:53 PM
Great post Thunderkyss! I also think Super Mario will be a great player but will take some time! It's sad that some posters here thinks he IS ALREADY a bust bcuz he hasn't had 20 sacks yet @ this point of his career!

I hope that wasn't reference to me. I know it will take time for him, just like a Strahan who you didn't hear about for a long time until he started doing his thing. I am still wondering if he will tried to fight back to the inside when he can. Plus what his production would be like if he is at DT with more than one choice other than "swing around".

thunderkyss
10-21-2006, 05:22 PM
He hasn't learned to use his hands very well yet. For a comparison watch 44 , the DT with Florida. He uses his hands very, very well. The tallent level has caught up with Mario. He can no longer just be raw and dominate. Give it time. If he's coachable, IMHO ,with all respect to Vinny, it's not a tallent issue. It's a technique issue. He gets his hands play down he will be a monster. Gotta be patient.

Both Jevon Kearse, and Darren Howard were criticised for their lack of Technique when they came into the league. I believe they all but disappeared in Tennessee, and N.O. because of that lack of technique. Putting them both together with Superior talent in Philly is going to revitalize both of their carreers.

I'm not arguing the fact that Mario needs to work on his technique. In fact, I agree if he is to be the player we need him to be, for the next 10 years, he is going to have to work on his technique.

But what is really hurting Mario right now, is TJ, Greenwood, Orr, Dunta, Sanders, & Brown.

thunderkyss
10-21-2006, 05:38 PM
Well, I agree that he hasn't shown himself to be a big time edge rusher yet, but I'm not seeing him in my image of a 3-4 DE either...

Good Lord! I think I'm about to call Mario a tweener!

Although he has the ability to take up blockers the way you might like in a 3-4 DL, his pursuit along the line of scrimmage is starting to look more and more like a 4-3 DE to me. But your right, not much of an edge rush up to this point.


A DEs job in the 3-4 isn't just to take up blockers. He has to be a threat to get penetration, forcing the double team, and still provide a push up the middle, so the OLBs can do their thing. We should have taken a player like ChrisCanty or Marcus Spears(who are more like Mario than they are like TJ) to play DE. Instead, we get guys like RobairSmith, and TJ, who should be NTs if anything in the NFL.

With Mario, Weaver, and N.D. Kalu, we now have better 3-4 DEs than we've ever had.

JasonBabin, ShanteeOrr, CharlieAnderson would look good on the strongside.

Peek, Greenwood, Ryans, would play well on the weekside.

Wong, Polk, Ryans, & I might even try Jason Simmons at the ILB spots.


But to take Mario with the #1 overall to play the DE in a 3-4 doesn't make any sense at all.

phantom17
10-21-2006, 08:01 PM
I hope that wasn't reference to me. I know it will take time for him, just like a Strahan who you didn't hear about for a long time until he started doing his thing. I am still wondering if he will tried to fight back to the inside when he can. Plus what his production would be like if he is at DT with more than one choice other than "swing around".


Cheroqui- oh no, it's just general & partly sarcasm- mostly directed towards trolls & fairweather fans:redtowel: ! I think you are a diehard TEXANS fan!! The Strahan comparison is a good one!

keyfro
10-21-2006, 08:11 PM
mario right now is just a real raw talent...he has the ability to be like julius peppers...he really does...the only problem is right now he is being double teamed most of the time...sometimes they put a TE, OT, and a RB on him during passing downs...so he isn't getting the single man blocking him to start using some of his pass rushing moves...remember in order to be a good pass rusher in this league you have to be able to set up your moves

with that in mind...travis johnson who i have defended on this board numerous times needs to step up...his rep coming out of college was that we was a ruthless talent in the middle of the line that was in the mold of warren sapp...a one gap pass rushing DT...we are almost half-way in year two with him and he still looks like he did his rookie year in the 3-4...unable to get to the passer...so travis really needs to start coming with it...cause right now i don't see the mean attitude i was looking forward to with him

weaver and the rest of the guys just need to make things happen since they are not getting the double team

bigTEXan8
10-22-2006, 10:39 AM
i think our pressure will step up and play better, especially against a hobbled qb. i think that the d-line, including mario, has been playing better, but they need to play consistently for the entire game. jmo.

Wolf
10-22-2006, 03:57 PM
he had one assist ,one sack and a recovered fumble. no tackles or assists.

that is what shows in the stats.

I made a point to watch him on some plays.seemed he was giving the #74 some trouble when matched up on him (when I watched him it was late in 4th)

Vinny
10-22-2006, 03:58 PM
The sack was a joke too...without that, its no tackles - no assists and he has to be the luckiest guy on the planet....Leftwich falls down because of bad footing on the sack and that fumble rolls right to him.

awtysst
10-22-2006, 04:00 PM
he had one sack and a recovered fumble. no tackles or assists.

that is what shows in the stats.

I made a point to watch him on some plays.seemed he was giving the #74 some trouble when matched up on him (when I watched him it was late in 4th)

yahoo sports said he had a assit tackle, 1 sack, and 1 fumble recovery.

Wolf
10-22-2006, 04:03 PM
yahoo sports said he had a assit tackle, 1 sack, and 1 fumble recovery.

good catch.

Wolf
10-22-2006, 04:05 PM
The sack was a joke too...without that, its no tackles - no assists and he has to be the luckiest guy on the planet....Leftwich falls down because of bad footing on the sack and that fumble rolls right to him.

on the sack someone had to get it.

the fumble, I watched him on that.. he got knocked down and he got back up and went toward the pile.. was just a hustle play ..

run-david-run
10-22-2006, 04:06 PM
The sack was a joke too...without that, its no tackles - no assists and he has to be the luckiest guy on the planet....Leftwich falls down because of bad footing on the sack and that fumble rolls right to him.

well take whatever we can get. Most importantly, he was a member of a defense that only gave up 7 points, forced 2 turnovers and forced almost as many punts as points allowed, not bad.

GP
10-22-2006, 04:09 PM
NFL.com stat sheet shows he had:

1 Tackle
1 Assisted Tackle
1 Sack
1 Fumble Recovery

Wolf
10-22-2006, 04:15 PM
and it has demeco for the year with 47 (2nd place behind Sims (he has a bye week next week))
http://www.nfl.com/rookies/stats

:redtowel:

Texan1
10-22-2006, 04:30 PM
Texans D really stepped up today and showed they can contribute to a win. The turnovers they created were key to the win.

Peek, Kalu, Weaver, and Maddux were very active on the D line today. Ryans and Orr had good games.

Scott and Simmons were bringing the wood - where have these guys been all this time?

michaelm
10-24-2006, 10:08 PM
The sack was a joke too...without that, its no tackles - no assists and he has to be the luckiest guy on the planet....Leftwich falls down because of bad footing on the sack and that fumble rolls right to him.

My schedule for the foreseeable future just got a lot more full... now I have to go back and watch every NFL game since sack stats have been recorded to make sure no other player ever had a cheap sack.

Thanks, man.

Maybe we can get the immaculate reception reversed if we petition the league... just a thought... ;^)

Grid
10-24-2006, 10:44 PM
the way I see the Mario sack.. he was the first guy there.

If Byron had fumbled the snap and was in the process of picking it up, and Mario had hit him, then no one would be saying "well that sack doesnt count".

Was it a cheap sack? yes. Did it show off Mario's abilities? Not really..except that he was getting good enough pressure to be the first guy there.

PoolMaster21
10-25-2006, 10:15 AM
the way I see the Mario sack.. he was the first guy there.

If Byron had fumbled the snap and was in the process of picking it up, and Mario had hit him, then no one would be saying "well that sack doesnt count".

Was it a cheap sack? yes. Did it show off Mario's abilities? Not really..except that he was getting good enough pressure to be the first guy there.

Right on! You can't be lucky if you haven't worked at being in the right place at the right time.

real
10-25-2006, 10:23 AM
I have an argument towards this whole “Mario doesn’t deserve the sack opinion”. Now everyone has their own opinion, but stats are all about luck and situations. Yea Mario just touched the guy on the ground, BUT he was the first one to touch him! If BL gets up and runs around the play continues, right? How many QB’s throw INT because the receiver ran the wrong route, how many TD’s come from blown coverage!
If a guy makes a catch wide open 30 yards down field because the cornerback covering him pulls a hammy does this mean his yardage and TD should not count? This is just my view on the topic. Over the past 4 years how many players got sacks on Carr because he froze up in the pocket, should those sacks be taken away????

I don't think anyone is trying to take Mario's stats away...In fact who cares about stats.....

It's more of a judgement on his performance....Im not really sure how you can honestly say that Mario did anything special, or out-performed the opposition on that play....

Speaking strictly from a performance standpoint He really didn't do much on that play...Leftwhich fell...He touched him...good for Mario and the Texans that leftwhich fell...But honestly how would you grade his performance on that play ??? IMO, you can't really say he did an excellent job...but it wouldn't be fair to say he did poorly either...Leftwhich fell...Mario touched him....the end....

thunderkyss
10-25-2006, 10:32 AM
...But honestly how would you grade his performance on that play ??? IMO, you can't really say he did an excellent job...but it wouldn't be fair to say he did poorly either...Leftwhich fell...Mario touched him....the end....

Well, Mario was the only one in the backfield to touch him.

Kaiser Toro
10-25-2006, 10:37 AM
Well, Mario was the only one in the backfield to touch him.

Who hasn't played capture the flag? Changing the rules on Mario's sack credit is tantamount to rewriting each of our pre-adolescent history. :)

real
10-25-2006, 10:46 AM
Well, Mario was the only one in the backfield to touch him.

That's cool and all....And I'm happy Leftwhich fell...and Im happy Mario got one more sack....

But Im still not sure how you can say Mario outperformed the opposition on that play...He isn't competing against his teamates...

I'll put it like this....When they were watching film, most likely the coach fast forwarded through that play....and labled it busted...

If there is nothing to coach up, how can you say he performed well on that play ? Do you think the DL coach was raving about how good a job he did on that play ??? Do you think the Jag's offensive line coach chewed out the OT for letting Mario beat him ??I mean if Mario hadn't of touched him....somebody else would have....That was not an impressive sack in the least bit.....

SBTexans08
10-25-2006, 10:59 AM
man...it's a sack. There's busted plays everywhere in the league, week-in, week-out, whether they're easy INTs, kick returns, offensive TDs, or whatever else.... You take advantage of everything available. The heck was Mario supposed to do? "Nah...I won't touch him cause I want my sacks to be for real!!" Do you have any idea what the coaches would have done if he wouldn't have done what he was supposed to. It was something that had to be made, Mario was fortunate to be there...he did his job.

Mr. White
10-25-2006, 11:04 AM
I can't believe there's actually an argument here. The color guy (Randy Cross?) even said it was the easiest sack that Mario Williams would ever get.

I don't disagree. Mario probably doesn't either. It is what it is. If you don't like how he got it...if it wasn't legit enough...then write the league to throw out sacks altogether as a stat.

While you're at it, tell 'em to throw out tackles on QB slides.

When a guy goes down by himself, the first guy there is the one who gets credit for him going down. That's just the way it works.

real
10-25-2006, 11:04 AM
man...it's a sack. There's busted plays everywhere in the league, week-in, week-out, whether they're easy INTs, kick returns, offensive TDs, or whatever else.... You take advantage of everything available. The heck was Mario supposed to do? "Nah...I won't touch him cause I want my sacks to be for real!!" Do you have any idea what the coaches would have done if he wouldn't have done what he was supposed to. It was something that had to be made, Mario was fortunate to be there...he did his job.

So you think Mario's performance on that play was excellent ?

I never said he did a bad job...i just said he didn't do anything special...

He didn't do anything special on the play...get over it...Leftwhich fell...Mario touched him...the end...

SBTexans08
10-25-2006, 11:05 AM
So you think Mario's performance on that play was excellent ?

I never said he did a bad job...i just said he didn't do anything special...

He didn't do anything special on the play...get over it...Leftwhich fell...Mario touched him...the end...

That's right...but some of you are downgrading his play because it was a given/BS type sack. Exactly, Leftwich fell, Mario touched him, making thus a sack...the end.

real
10-25-2006, 11:06 AM
I can't believe there's actually an argument here. The color guy (Randy Cross?) even said it was the easiest sack that Mario Williams would ever get.

I don't disagree. Mario probably doesn't either. It is what it is. If you don't like how he got it...if it wasn't legit enough...then write the league to throw out sacks altogether as a stat.

While you're at it, tell 'em to throw out tackles on QB slides.

When a guy goes down by himself, the first guy there is the one who gets credit for him going down. That's just the way it works.

Ummmm.....once again....

I don't think anyone has said the sack shouldn't count....I really don't even care about stats honestly...IMO, Mario played his best game to date...

But from a performance standpoint...he didn't do much on that particular play...and Im not really sure what the argument is either....

real
10-25-2006, 11:08 AM
That's right...but some of you are downgrading his play because it was a given/BS type sack. Exactly, Leftwich fell, Mario touched him, making thus a sack...the end.

I don't know who "some of you" is....

But I think that was Mario's best all around game....

but that was a busted play...he touched leftwhich and he got another sack...What does that have to do with his performance ?

SBTexans08
10-25-2006, 11:12 AM
Ummmm.....once again....

I don't think anyone has said the sack shouldn't count....I really don't even care about stats honestly...IMO, Mario played his best game to date...

But from a performance standpoint...he didn't do much on that particular play...and Im not really sure what the argument is either....

IMO, this topic shouldn't even be brought up. It was a sack, no matter what....however, some folks feel sacks need to be impressive, which is why this is being talked about. Do some feel there needs to be parenthesis next to sacks, labeled as (unimpressive)/(impressive)(not great-not bad)? Again, why is it even being talked about? It was a sack. "But...but...". There's no buts...it was a sack, the end.

real
10-25-2006, 11:16 AM
IMO, this topic shouldn't even be brought up. It was a sack, no matter what....however, some folks feel sacks need to be impressive, which is why this is being talked about. Do some feel there needs to be parenthesis next to sacks, labeled as (unimpressive)/(impressive)(not great-not bad)? Again, why is it even being talked about? It was a sack. "But...but...". There's no buts...it was a sack, the end.

:ok:

bah007
10-25-2006, 11:19 AM
This thread is just another way for people who didnt want us to draft Mario to let out their frustrations.

Mario got a sack on that play. It doesnt matter that the QB fell down. Mario was the first person there. Sack.

Does Tony Romo's first INT not count now cuz it was deflected at the line of scrimmage? It isnt Romo's fault that the ball went 30 feet into the air after Strahan tipped it, allowing a Giants player to run under it and catch it.

real
10-25-2006, 11:22 AM
This thread is just another way for people who didnt want us to draft Mario to let out their frustrations.


You should call those people out...

bah007
10-25-2006, 11:24 AM
You should call those people out...

Anybody arguing about this play against Mario should know that I'm talking to them.

real
10-25-2006, 11:27 AM
Anybody arguing about this play against Mario should know that I'm talking to them.

Im not really sure how the play is a positive...and I really don't know how it can be a negative....

Again, you should call out those "people" that you feel are trying to take away from his overall performance, because honestly I don't see it....

South Texan
10-25-2006, 11:31 AM
Quick question... If Mario hadn't been that close to Byron when he fell, would he have had an extra second or two to get up and complete a pass?

bah007
10-25-2006, 11:32 AM
Im not really sure how the play is a positive...and I really don't know how it can be a negative....

Again, you should call out those "people" that you feel are trying to take away from his overall performance, because honestly I don't see it....

The play is positive because Mario sacked the QB on a critical play.

It cant be a negative play. We got a sack on defense!

I didnt comment on this thread to call anybody out and start a new arguement. I only wanted to state my opinion that I dont see how a Texan getting a defensive sack can be a cause for concern or arguement. And I believe the only reason this is a discussion is because the people arguing against that a Texans sack is a negative play have a hidden agenda.

real
10-25-2006, 11:32 AM
Quick question... If Mario hadn't been that close to Byron when he fell, would he have had an extra second or two to get up and complete a pass?

Did you see how he fell ?

bah007
10-25-2006, 11:34 AM
Quick question... If Mario hadn't been that close to Byron when he fell, would he have had an extra second or two to get up and complete a pass?

No. Leftwitch had no chance to get up. He fell right into the splits.

real
10-25-2006, 11:38 AM
The play is positive because Mario sacked the QB on a critical play.

It cant be a negative play. We got a sack on defense!

I didnt comment on this thread to call anybody out and start a new arguement. I only wanted to state my opinion that I dont see how a Texan getting a defensive sack can be a cause for concern or arguement. And I believe the only reason this is a discussion is because the people arguing against that a Texans sack is a negative play have a hidden agenda.

I actually think it's the other way around....I think that people like yourself are so paranoid about "Mario haters" that as soon asa someone says they weren't impressed by his performance on that play you go into protect Mario mode....

Yes it was a positive play for the TEXANS....Byron fell...Mario got the sack...That helped us out a lot....

I'm really not understanding how you can say you were impressed with him on that play...When the play happened did you think to yourself...Wow Mario is a beast ? Did you say to yourself...Look out we've got a sack artist on our hands ??? No...You were happy that Mario got another sack as was I...But he didn't do anything on that play performance wise that made me think he did a helluva job....Im not sure how I can be any more clear than that...

bah007
10-25-2006, 11:46 AM
I actually think it's the other way around....I think that people like yourself are so paranoid about "Mario haters" that as soon asa someone says they weren't impressed by his performance on that play you go into protect Mario mode....

Yes it was a positive play for the TEXANS....Byron fell...Mario got the sack...That helped us out a lot....

I'm really not understanding how you can say you were impressed with him on that play...When the play happened did you think to yourself...Wow Mario is a beast ? Did you say to yourself...Look out we've got a sack artist on our hands ??? No...You were happy that Mario got another sack as was I...But he didn't do anything on that play performance wise that made me think he did a helluva job....Im not sure how I can be any more clear than that...

I dont know how I can be any more clear either. I am not a "Mario proterctor". Yes, I wanted us to draft Mario, but I dont need to protect him. Only his play on the field can do that.

If Weaver had gotten the sack I would say the same thing. This was a positive play for the Texans. Who cares how impressive it was? It was a sack! I do not believe that this would be an issue if it had not been Mario who got the sack.

I am trying hard to avoid an arguement so this will be my last comment on this thread. I will leave you with this thought.

When Terrell Owens dropped the wide open 4th down pass in the red zone against the Giants, did the Giants say "aw man, that was a fluke. That play shouldnt count." No. The Giants didnt execute perfectly but they got to take andvantage of their opponent's mistake.

A sack is a sack. A dropped pass is a drop. Who cares if Owens was wide open? Who cares if Leftwitch fell down? It went into the books as a loss of yds for the Jags, so we should be celebrating our luck. Not condeming the player on our team who got lucky.

real
10-25-2006, 11:49 AM
Not condeming the player on our team who got lucky.

Those are your words...not mine....

I just think we're having two different arguments....

bah007
10-25-2006, 11:51 AM
Those are your words...not mine....

I just think we're having two different arguments....

Even though I dont agree with you. I gave you a pos rep for presenting a good arguement for your opinion.

SBTexans08
10-25-2006, 11:52 AM
I just think we're having two different arguments....

apparently so then...

michaelm
10-25-2006, 12:32 PM
No. Leftwitch had no chance to get up. He fell right into the splits.

So, if Mario never got there, Leftwich would still be down?

bah007
10-25-2006, 12:34 PM
So, if Mario never got there, Leftwich would still be down?

No. He isnt down until someone touches him.

nunusguy
10-25-2006, 12:43 PM
One year Brett Farve literally fell on his face (intentionally) to let Michael Strahan touch him and get credit for the sack. If I'm not mistaken, it made
Strahan the sack leader for the year and may have even set a record at the time.
I saw that Packers-Giants game on TV. All the players on both teams, including Farve and Strahan, were laughing their heads off after the paly as they knew how phoney it was.
Sometimes you get a break like that, other times a player may be the one who is really responsible for a sack, but doesn't get any credit.

Hulk75
10-25-2006, 12:44 PM
This thread is just another way for people who didnt want us to draft Mario to let out their frustrations.

Mario got a sack on that play. It doesnt matter that the QB fell down. Mario was the first person there. Sack.
Does Tony Romo's first INT not count now cuz it was deflected at the line of scrimmage? It isnt Romo's fault that the ball went 30 feet into the air after Strahan tipped it, allowing a Giants player to run under it and catch it.

And they work very hard all game to get the QB, sometimes they desirve a sack like that, these DEs get so close and get so frustrated they deserve stuff like that. A sack is a sack is a sack.

michaelm
10-25-2006, 12:46 PM
No. Leftwitch had no chance to get up. He fell right into the splits.



Let me rephrase the question from my previous post...
If Mario never got to him, Leftwich would still be lying there?

thunderkyss
10-25-2006, 01:12 PM
That's cool and all....And I'm happy Leftwhich fell...and Im happy Mario got one more sack....

But Im still not sure how you can say Mario outperformed the opposition on that play...He isn't competing against his teamates...

I'll put it like this....When they were watching film, most likely the coach fast forwarded through that play....and labled it busted...

If there is nothing to coach up, how can you say he performed well on that play ? Do you think the DL coach was raving about how good a job he did on that play ??? Do you think the Jag's offensive line coach chewed out the OT for letting Mario beat him ??I mean if Mario hadn't of touched him....somebody else would have....That was not an impressive sack in the least bit.....

First, I'm not saying mario's play was outstanding on that sack...... heck I don't even remember what Mario was doing at the time.

But I do remember when Leftwhich was on his but, there was no one between Mario & Leftwich...... There was only one Battlered Jersey on that side of the OLine.

If you were to tell me that was a gimme sack, I'd say, "yeah, that was a gimme sack"

If you ask me how many sacks Mario has, I'd say, "2.5"

real
10-25-2006, 01:13 PM
If you were to tell me that was a gimme sack, I'd say, "yeah, that was a gimme sack"

If you ask me how many sacks Mario has, I'd say, "2.5"

I couldn't agree with you more.

thunderkyss
10-25-2006, 01:17 PM
I'm really not understanding how you can say you were impressed with him on that play...When the play happened did you think to yourself...Wow Mario is a beast ? Did you say to yourself...Look out we've got a sack artist on our hands ??? No...You were happy that Mario got another sack as was I...But he didn't do anything on that play performance wise that made me think he did a helluva job....Im not sure how I can be any more clear than that...

When Strahan got the first sack on Bledsoe the other night, did you think, "Wow, that Strahan is a monster" (after all, it was a good tackle)

Or did you think, "Why would anybody let Strahan back there untouched"

I know I was more amazed by the poor play of Dallas' RT, than I was by what Strahan did.

thunderkyss
10-25-2006, 01:19 PM
Let me rephrase the question from my previous post...
If Mario never got to him, Leftwich would still be lying there?


Yes, because someone else would've got to him. He didn't really try to hard to get up, he was probably laughing too hard.

This wasn't like the Plummer fall in the preseason, when Jake jumped up and picked up a 3rd & 15 with a bullet pass to the middle of the field.

Leftwich had no intention of getting up at that moment.

michaelm
10-25-2006, 01:33 PM
Yes, because someone else would've got to him. He didn't really try to hard to get up, he was probably laughing too hard.

This wasn't like the Plummer fall in the preseason, when Jake jumped up and picked up a 3rd & 15 with a bullet pass to the middle of the field.

Leftwich had no intention of getting up at that moment.


So, 7-10 seconds later, Lefty is still just lying on the ground? If not, how long would you estimate he had between Mario getting there, and the next Texan besides Mario getting there.
3 seconds before some else got there? Would Lefty had gotten up after 3 seconds if no one touched him?
I am kinda being a smarta@@, but I didn't see the play in question, so the question is real.

thunderkyss
10-25-2006, 01:45 PM
So, 7-10 seconds later, Lefty is still just lying on the ground? If not, how long would you estimate he had between Mario getting there, and the next Texan besides Mario getting there.
3 seconds before some else got there? Would Lefty had gotten up after 3 seconds if no one touched him?
I am kinda being a smarta@@, but I didn't see the play in question, so the question is real.

well in the world of alternate realities, it's kinda difficult to imagine what would have happened, but I think odds are pretty good someone else would've got him in a second or so.......

More than likely Thomas Johnson would've stepped on his head.

real
10-25-2006, 02:06 PM
More than likely Thomas Johnson would've stepped on his head.


L....M.....A.....O......!

I don't know why that was funny but it was....

TheOgre
10-25-2006, 03:06 PM
Personally I see Mario as more of a LDE than a RDE or even a 3-4 end (Weaver is more of that). I think when Mario is in his prime, he will be excellent against the run, but merely good, not great, pass-rusher. Trevor Pryce and Kevin Carter (when he was younger) are the players he reminds me of.

I'd rather have him disrupt the strong side of the O-line and have a pass-rushing presence (Peek?) on the weak side.

Dunta_23
10-25-2006, 08:16 PM
Let me rephrase the question from my previous post...
If Mario never got to him, Leftwich would still be lying there?


Thats funny

ledzeppelin229
10-25-2006, 08:28 PM
So, 7-10 seconds later, Lefty is still just lying on the ground? If not, how long would you estimate he had between Mario getting there, and the next Texan besides Mario getting there.
3 seconds before some else got there? Would Lefty had gotten up after 3 seconds if no one touched him?
I am kinda being a smarta@@, but I didn't see the play in question, so the question is real.

Ok, I was going to make up some picture of Byron lying on the ground with C. Everett Koop hovering over him and a Life Alert around his neck. Then I found a picture that is funny looking without any doctoring at all, although irrelevant to the thread. Here it is anyway:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/media/photo/2005-11/20474426.jpg

run-david-run
10-25-2006, 08:57 PM
This was like the thread blaming Carr for Bradford's 4th down drop last year. He got a sack on third down, it was lucky. Thats about all there is to it.

Herr Doktor
10-25-2006, 09:00 PM
Great post Thunderkyss! I also think Super Mario will be a great player but will take some time! It's sad that some posters here thinks he IS ALREADY a bust bcuz he hasn't had 20 sacks yet @ this point of his career!


We had people on the Falcons board writing off DeAngelo Hall after his rookie season. There are few who just come into the game (Pro's) and dominate from day one. Not many Lawrence Taylors, or Reggie Whites out there. Mario will be solid in a year. He's the kind that gets better every year. :twocents:

GNTLEWOLF
10-28-2006, 04:27 AM
We had people on the Falcons board writing off DeAngelo Hall after his rookie season. There are few who just come into the game (Pro's) and dominate from day one. Not many Lawrence Taylors, or Reggie Whites out there. Mario will be solid in a year. He's the kind that gets better every year. :twocents:

:redtowel: We all hope Mario eventually gets that good.:redtowel:

TK_Gamer
10-28-2006, 07:48 AM
Ummmm.....once again....

I don't think anyone has said the sack shouldn't count....I really don't even care about stats honestly...IMO, Mario played his best game to date...

But from a performance standpoint...he didn't do much on that particular play...and Im not really sure what the argument is either....

the argument is people are for some reason trying to berate a player on our own team for no apparrent reason other than taking a jab at a guy that doesnt need any from his own fans. Mario put pressure on the QB all day, if someone was after you all day and you seen him 6ft away from you, you might just slip and fall down too. putting pressure on the QB is what its all about, making him do things he is not prepared to do and forcing him into mistakes and bad decisions. I would say falling down and letting mario touch him for a sack would fall under the "mistakes and bad decisions" category. who cares if it wasnt a highlight reel sack? who really cares? only those that want to find something wrong with the guy no matter what for their own selfish reasons.

thunderkyss
10-28-2006, 11:00 AM
the argument is people are for some reason trying to berate a player on our own team for no apparrent reason other than taking a jab at a guy that doesnt need any from his own fans. Mario put pressure on the QB all day, if someone was after you all day and you seen him 6ft away from you, you might just slip and fall down too. putting pressure on the QB is what its all about, making him do things he is not prepared to do and forcing him into mistakes and bad decisions. I would say falling down and letting mario touch him for a sack would fall under the "mistakes and bad decisions" category. who cares if it wasnt a highlight reel sack? who really cares? only those that want to find something wrong with the guy no matter what for their own selfish reasons.

I agree....... I'm watching the game agains, and so far in the first half, most of Leftwich's incomplete passes are because he is getting hit, or about to. His first incomplete pass, Mario bullrushed the RT right into him as he threw, and as soon as Lefty let the ball go, Kalu came and hit him from the other side.

But Yeah, I think a big part of Jax's 2/13 passing game is because of Mario & our Pass rush.