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View Full Version : 2-14 excuse for the coaching getting old.


dat_boy_yec
10-20-2006, 08:27 PM
I can understand that he's a rookie head coach and getting his feet wet. However people say he inherited a 2-14 team like it's gospel. Like we're just supposed to accept that and all it's implications without question and validate it as a reason. Guess what it's not an excuse. Last yr. our biggest gripe was that the coaching sucked and that was our main reason for our record. By that implication even without personnel changes we should expect a turnaround. Since coaching was our biggest problem the new coaching staff should be making the biggest impact. However alot of people are totally blaming the personnel. Here's some news no team works with nothing but pro-bowler's on their team. Our team was better then their record indicated last yr. and the whole he inherited a 2-14 team is not a valid excuse. The biggest problem was identified as the coaching, well guess what that coaching staff is gone we should already be seeing results. A competitive team not a team that get's blown out every game. Kubiak needs to get it together and do something before the end of this season. We as fans should not have to make excuses for him. He is what he is and if he doesn't get this team to improve then he isn't what we thought he would be. I don't care about giving him time, but man getting blown out so much. He has to bear a lot of responsibility. Which he does, but we gotta stop making excuses for him.

thunderkyss
10-20-2006, 08:36 PM
Kubiak needs to get it together and do something before the end of this season.

I completely agree. So, stop crying like a little girl, and root for your team like they are the best franchise in the NFL.



At least till the end of the season.

HJam72
10-20-2006, 08:38 PM
I find it hard to believe that 2 entire coaching regime's can be this terrible. Therefore, I doubt the problem is Kubiak. We don't have the right players. I don't know for sure if its the wrong players for the system or if our overall talent just really sucks, but it's the players. I don't mean to put down your argument here because I'm really sick of rooting for a hopeless cause myself, but I respectfully disagree.

To go a little further, I disagree with those who say that we are not making the right play-calls, at least to the point where it's a real problem. Those wanting more passing or deeper pass plays for instance I disagree with because our opponents are stopping the run with defensive play-calling that is designed to stop the pass. Their front 4 are stopping the run all on their own and their pass coverage is deep. We can't even run against deep pass coverage defensive plays. It's pathetic. The only thing we can do is throw all of those short passes and that's not Carr's fault, or the receivers', or the coaches'. It's the crappy running game. On defense, it's just a matter or being worn out physically and mentally (from watching the offense dink, dunk, and punt), which is why we get killed in the second half.

HJam72
10-20-2006, 08:42 PM
I do agree that Kubiak and co. need to do anything they can think of that might help and that drastic measures may very well be in order. I just don't think it's Kubiak's fault to the extent that we need to be considering replacing a new coach that came onto this disaster of a team. I disagree with trading Morency (until proven wrong) and letting Wand go (because our backups are worse), but it's his show and we've got to give him time to run it.

joedinkle
10-20-2006, 08:44 PM
Fair weather fans suck more than the Texans. That being said, I expect us to win this Sunday, just as I blindly expected us to win against Philly, and the Colts, and etc. If we lose, there's always next Sunday. We will get better. Just give it time.

HJam72
10-20-2006, 08:45 PM
I do think a few deep pass tries might have helped in some situations, but not last Sunday against the Cowboys who were sitting back there waiting for it. If you can't run at least adequately against nothing but the front 4, you are in for a looooooong day.

thunderkyss
10-20-2006, 08:58 PM
It's the crappy running game. On defense, it's just a matter or being worn out physically and mentally (from watching the offense dink, dunk, and punt), which is why we get killed in the second half.

you don't think fumbling, wasting snaps, Sacks, & turnovers out of the passing game(our RBs only lost one fumble this year) have anything at all to do with it??

I agree, our running game could be better, but our passing game has problems of it's own as well.

Mistakes. If we can stop making mistakes, we'd be allright.

HJam72
10-20-2006, 09:10 PM
you don't think fumbling, wasting snaps, Sacks, & turnovers out of the passing game(our RBs only lost one fumble this year) have anything at all to do with it??

I agree, our running game could be better, but our passing game has problems of it's own as well.

Mistakes. If we can stop making mistakes, we'd be allright.

I'd say those are problems that would keep us out of the playoffs this year (probably). The running game, on the other hand, is a major problem that will give us another top 5 pick guaranteed, unless it somehow gets better. If you're implying that Carr is the problem, I completely disagree. Some of that was his fault, but I doubt I'd even blame him for half of it. Things like getting blindsided 2 seconds after the snap and fumbling are not the QB's fault in my opinion. If he wasn't getting his head bashed in, he wouldn't be fumbling. Even that I believe was just part of the Colts game.

Now, you look at the two picks Sunday. What I saw there was a QB trying to make something happen with nothing. You can't run....period....end of story. Nobodies open deep and all the short passes aren't getting anything going after the catch. The defense is getting worn out and you've got one thing left to do. FORCE IT. It's no surprise to anyone that he was picked and that probably includes him. He shouldn't have tried it, but I believe most people in that situation would've done the same thing. It was the only chance they had, if you even want to call that a chance.

I keep going back and forth on what exactly is wrong with the running game, but I feel very much that it's the running game that's killing us.

HJam72
10-20-2006, 09:13 PM
Also, they've only had one fumble, but you might as well take one step back and drill a pass into the dirt as hand them the ball. Maybe it's the blocking (probably), but the running game is uuuuuugly.

Wolf
10-21-2006, 01:21 AM
we have new schemes on both sides of the ball .. takes time to jell.

however if we are still getting blown out later in the season, eyebrows will be raised.

The Pencil Neck
10-21-2006, 01:39 AM
So far, everything's going along pretty much as I expected. Except that I expected a little bit more out of our running game and our defensive line. I don't know what expectations you had. Were you expecting a winning season?

We suck and we've played a bunch of teams that don't or at least not as much as we do. That's always a bad combination. Placing blame for why we suck isn't exactly making excuses. It's just a post-mortem for suckage.

I don't think any of us want Kubiak to be a bad coach. He is a very good OC. Hopefully he is (or soon will be) a good HC. It took Belichick some time to grow into it; hopefully it won't take Kubes as long. Most of us are looking for other reasons for our suckage (besides the coaching)... and personnel choices from the past regime is an easy target for that because there's probably more than a little truth to it.

So, let's give it some time. Let's get to the part of the season where we actually have a good chance to win some games before getting all freaky. And, personally, I really don't expect to win this weekend and I didn't expect to win last weekend.

FanFromCali
10-21-2006, 08:49 AM
I respect people's opinion that the coaching staff is not doing a good job, but I think it was way off base...

What did you expect? The team was the worst in the NFL last year. Let me say it again because as much as it hurts, it needs to be said. The Texans were the absolute worst team in the NF, and the reality is you don't hire a new head coach and expect to automatically make the playoffs. The team just does not have the players…yet.

Brian Bilicheck had a below average (crappy) record before he got to the Patriots. Did he all of a sudden become a great head coach, or did he get the right players for his system? I suggest it is the latter.

Despite the record this team has shown improvement and with some of the tougher games behind they have a chance at five wins. That might not sound like much but it would be more than double what the team had last year. With what he has our coach is doing a good job.

My point is this: I know it sucks to be a fan of a team that has struggled for so many years. But changes take time. We have we have a few good young players to build around but we need a lot more. Just think about how sweet it will be when fans like us who were around for the rough years get to see the team be successful.

FirstTexansFan
10-21-2006, 09:05 AM
And although your point about "fair weather fans" is certainly valid...

BLIND :homer: fans are JUST AS ANNOYING! (Not specifically calling YOU out or anything, but it seems to fit in this instance...no offense intended...really!)





The difference, we blind homer fans don't post every fricking 2 mins with something positive about our team. (notice my post count, and length of time I've been a member here). We sit here in shock as we're inundated with post after post from some moron that believes he's more intelligent than an NFL Owner, Coach or player. Now THAT's truly ANNOYING! :)

NederlandTexan
10-21-2006, 09:54 AM
The difference, we blind homer fans don't post every fricking 2 mins with something positive about our team. (notice my post count, and length of time I've been a member here). We sit here in shock as we're inundated with post after post from some moron that believes he's more intelligent than an NFL Owner, Coach or player. Now THAT's truly ANNOYING! :)

:redtowel:

brewhaus
10-21-2006, 10:44 AM
It seems to me the biggest problem the coaching staff is facing is not being able to motivate the players on our team. I am not going to second guess there knowledge of the game, and I think that the entire staff is of the highest caliber. But ****, if the players don't care about the outcome of the game, all the "great schemes" in the world are not going to work.

And the way the Texans just "quit playing" at the end of the Dallas game is reason enough to make plans to ship them all out next year and get some players in here that are "PLAYERS"...

NATHANHALE
10-21-2006, 10:45 AM
I respect people's opinion that the coaching staff is not doing a good job, but I think it was way off base...

What did you expect? The team was the worst in the NFL last year. Let me say it again because as much as it hurts, it needs to be said. The Texans were the absolute worst team in the NF, and the reality is you don't hire a new head coach and expect to automatically make the playoffs. The team just does not have the players…yet.

Brian Bilicheck had a below average (crappy) record before he got to the Patriots. Did he all of a sudden become a great head coach, or did he get the right players for his system? I suggest it is the latter.

Despite the record this team has shown improvement and with some of the tougher games behind they have a chance at five wins. That might not sound like much but it would be more than double what the team had last year. With what he has our coach is doing a good job.

My point is this: I know it sucks to be a fan of a team that has struggled for so many years. But changes take time. We have we have a few good young players to build around but we need a lot more. Just think about how sweet it will be when fans like us who were around for the rough years get to see the team be successful.

Belechick still took the 5-11 Browns to a 11-5 playoff year within the Texans time frame existence, though-yes, overall, he had a losing record at Cleveland. At age 37 (youngest coach in the NFL), B took over the Browns in '91 and had them in the 2nd round of the play-offs in '94.

He began his Pats 'Dynasty' in his 2nd year with the Pats and has had the winningest record in the NFL since--only HC in NFL history to win 3 SB's.

thunderkyss
10-21-2006, 11:30 AM
I'd say those are problems that would keep us out of the playoffs this year (probably). The running game, on the other hand, is a major problem that will give us another top 5 pick guaranteed, unless it somehow gets better. If you're implying that Carr is the problem, I completely disagree.

I'd have to imagine the Tennessee Titans thought the same thing when they played the Miami & the Cowpokes. They avg'd 2.8 ypc on 22 carries against Miami, for 62 yards, & 2.9 ypc on 27 carries for 78 yards against Dallas. Then all of a sudden, their running game all of a sudden got better, running 6.9 ypc against Indy, and 4.7 ypc against Washington...... two teams that our defense kept our running game off the field.

So I do agree that the run game is a problem for us, I don't believe we have had ample opportunity to see exactly what is going on their. The three games it looked like there was something there, Philly, Indy, & Washington, we didn't run the ball.... The two games where it looked pathetic, was against two teams that makes everybodies run game look pathetic.

& I am not trying to blame David Carr for anything. But the passing game isn't good enough to open up any running game. We still have to keep too many players back in protection to get enough recievers in play. & still David doesn't have the time he needs to assess the field, and make the best throw.

Some of that was his fault, but I doubt I'd even blame him for half of it. Things like getting blindsided 2 seconds after the snap and fumbling are not the QB's fault in my opinion. If he wasn't getting his head bashed in, he wouldn't be fumbling. Even that I believe was just part of the Colts game.

If the QB can't feel that backside pressure too often, he's in for trouble. I won't blame the QB for getting blindsided, I won't blame the QB for getting stripped, but I will blame the QB for coughing up the ball when blindsided.

Now, you look at the two picks Sunday. What I saw there was a QB trying to make something happen with nothing. You can't run....period....end of story. Nobodies open deep

We have to define open...... I also have to give David the benefit of the doubt, because I can't see the recievers when he makes his decision. However, If you got Moulds, or AJ in single coverage, you take that shot.

His pass to AJ that got tipped, was without a doubt, not his fault. That was an amazing play by Bradie James, and GregEllis. He should take that throw every time, until someone else proves they can make the play Bradie did.

and all the short passes aren't getting anything going after the catch.

Doesn't matter, as long as he's getting 3 to 4 yards per completion. according to his stats, I think we were getting 6..... so all we had to do was be patient, and keep picking up first downs.

The defense is getting worn out and you've got one thing left to do. FORCE IT. It's no surprise to anyone that he was picked and that probably includes him. He shouldn't have tried it, but I believe most people in that situation would've done the same thing. It was the only chance they had, if you even want to call that a chance.

There was no chance at all. The problem was that he stared AJ down. Looking at the tape, there is no evidence that AnthonyHenry ever turned his back to David Carr. He simply stared him down, and waited for the throw. If you are the QB, and you're looking at that reciever that long, and you don't see the CB looking right back at you, then you've got problems. It should be relatively easy to figure out what kind of coverage is going on their, and move on in your progression(this is something David has said GK talked to him about before the season...... something GK has said he talked to David about before the season.... something we all said we hoped David would stop doing before the season... one of those rookie mistakes our 5 year vet shouldn't be making). He had plenty of time. no one was even close to him.

I keep going back and forth on what exactly is wrong with the running game, but I feel very much that it's the running game that's killing us.

Our running backs are doing as well as Edgerin James, and LarryJohnson, except that we've run against better defenses. We've spent the entire summer, and a full week of the bye week teaching our OL how to run the ZBS. Not once have we heard our coach say, "Bye George, I think they've got it" instead, the last thing I heard him say, was that we are at the prelimanary(sp) stage.

thunderkyss
10-21-2006, 12:26 PM
LJ has played games against: Pittsburgh (26 rush & 6 rec), Cincinnati (68 rush & 81 rec.) & Denver (41 yds rec. & 126 rushing).
They've also got two games against the Chargers, 1 more against Denver and 1 against Baltimore. Not really "Marshmallow Defenses," IMO.

EJ has played games against: Bears (55 rush & 7 rec) & Seahawks (64 rush & 33 rec). We all know about the Bears and I don't consider the Seahawks to have a terrible D.

Texans TOTAL rushing offense:
70 yds vs Eagles
108 yds vs Colts
61 yds vs Redskins
65 yds vs Dolphins
34 yds vs Cowboys

I'll give ya the Eagles game Thunder...but if we're talking Marshmallow defenses...there they are, IMO.






like I said, we didn't run against the marshmallow D's that we should have. Philly, Indy, & Washington, for reasons unrelated to the running game.

Defensively, ypc against the run, it's Baltimore, Dallas, then Miami, with Miami giving up 3.0 ypc..... Pitts, Chicago, & Seattle are good, but not as good, all three giving up more than 3.0 ypc.

Denver & SanDiego compare more to Washington's run D, giving up more than 3.5 ypc.

Double Barrel
10-21-2006, 01:44 PM
Considering most of the players that Kubiak has cut have not been picked up by other teams, I'd say it's a talent issue (or lack thereof). Face it, Casserly was a horrible GM, and our scouts are bottom of the barrel. We have to change the talent in the FO before we can expect to have any depth on this team. Picking your first/second round picks is easy enough, but the true talent of a staff is finding gems in later rounds, which we've never been good at.

Blaming Kubiak for this mess just five games into a season is silly.

threetoedpete
10-21-2006, 01:48 PM
You're waisting your bandwideth DB. He's got Carr in the coffin and out to the grave. He's going to beat that drum till the cows come home. There are none so blind who refuse to see.

Vinny
10-21-2006, 01:50 PM
Fair weather fans suck more than the Texans. That being said, I expect us to win this Sunday, just as I blindly expected us to win against Philly, and the Colts, and etc. If we lose, there's always next Sunday. We will get better. Just give it time.There are different kinds of fans you know...for instance I'd never just blindly support anything...other than my family I guess. Football is a competitive game and some of us have competitive dispositions and don't like to lose for 5 years to a decade straight. You don't have to be blind to be a good fan. People complain because they care...once you see people stop complaining about a bad product is when they stop caring about that product. As with most things in life you will have your fair share of fans who will just pollyanna this thing to death no matter how rotten the game day experience is....to each their own.

swtbound07
10-21-2006, 01:55 PM
Considering most of the players that Kubiak has cut have not been picked up by other teams, I'd say it's a talent issue (or lack thereof). Face it, Casserly was a horrible GM, and our scouts are bottom of the barrel. We have to change the talent in the FO before we can expect to have any depth on this team. Picking your first/second round picks is easy enough, but the true talent of a staff is finding gems in later rounds, which we've never been good at.

Blaming Kubiak for this mess just five games into a season is silly.


No Sir. Your half right. Casserly was a horrible GM, but are scouts are top shelf. I personally know of at least FIVE occasions where the ENTIRE scouting staff in the war room was arguing against a choice Casserly was about to make, and it turned out badly. We have good scouts, and we have good reports and intelligence, but we aren't listening to them. That has changed under the current regime. The scouts are being listened to.

Double Barrel
10-21-2006, 02:09 PM
I personally know of at least FIVE occasions where the ENTIRE scouting staff in the war room was arguing against a choice Casserly was about to make, and it turned out badly. .

I don't think Casserly had unlimited power to make these decisions. From what I've read over the past few years, it was rule by committee (set up like a corporate boardroom). All of that was supposed to change with Kubiak, who will be the ultimate decision maker.

With regards to our scouts, we got a lot of rejects that other teams did not want. Pretty much par for the course for our entire coaching staff in the beginning, too. It's the way of an expansion team.

NATHANHALE
10-21-2006, 02:19 PM
"All of that was supposed to change with Kubiak, who will be the ultimate decision maker."

...wow, that's kinda scary...

swtbound07
10-21-2006, 02:19 PM
I don't think Casserly had unlimited power to make these decisions. From what I've read over the past few years, it was rule by committee (set up like a corporate boardroom). All of that was supposed to change with Kubiak, who will be the ultimate decision maker.

With regards to our scouts, we got a lot of rejects that other teams did not want. Pretty much par for the course for our entire coaching staff in the beginning, too. It's the way of an expansion team.


http://www.houstontexans.com/team/front_office_detail.php?PRKey=92&section=TH%20Front%20Office

http://www.houstontexans.com/team/front_office_detail.php?PRKey=87&section=TH%20Front%20Office

http://www.houstontexans.com/team/front_office_detail.php?PRKey=88&section=TH%20Front%20Office

http://www.houstontexans.com/team/front_office_detail.php?PRKey=246&section=TH%20Front%20Office

http://www.houstontexans.com/team/front_office_detail.php?PRKey=91&section=TH%20Front%20Office

EVERY one of these guys served as a scout for other teams, most notably the broncos, redskins, and patriots. This is a staff with decades of experience, and have worked their way up through the ranks. MOST of the scouting staff came over from washington with casserly when he was hired by houston. Its simply false to make it seem like we picked up the scraps of the NFL's scouting department and assembled a makeshift line. The scouts are talented, capable people and are not the problem. Your wrong on this one DB.

Vinny
10-21-2006, 02:20 PM
EVERY one of these guys served as a scout for other teams, most notably the broncos, redskins, and patriots. This is a staff with decades of experience, and have worked their way up through the ranks. MOST of the scouting staff came over from washington with casserly when he was hired by houston. Its simply false to make it seem like we picked up the scraps of the NFL's scouting department and assembled a makeshift line. The scouts are talented, capable people and are not the problem. Your wrong on this one DB.
The Patriots didn't become a better team till they got rid of Bobby Grier...donno, but I don't have much faith in our scouts after 5 years of losers and carnage. Our inability to replace our expansion draft players with guys of equal or greater value has been proven...regardless of who argued what in the war room. Fast forward five years and we actually have less defensive talent than our first team.

swtbound07
10-21-2006, 02:26 PM
The Patriots didn't become a better team till they got rid of Bobby Grier...donno, but I don't have much faith in our scouts after 5 years of losers and carnage. Our inability to replace our expansion draft players with guys of equal or greater value has been proven...regardless of who argued what in the war room. Fast forward five years and we actually have less defensive talent than our first team.


Why is that on the scouts and not the man pulling the strings? This is the first draft we've had where the scouts had considerable input. Can we at least see how this draft class plays out before we throw our scouts under the bus?

Vinny
10-21-2006, 02:28 PM
Why is that on the scouts and not the man pulling the strings? This is the first draft we've had where the scouts had considerable input. Can we at least see how this draft class plays out before we throw our scouts under the bus?Why have scouts if you don't listen to them? Just get the coaches together and draft players they coach off the College all star games....oh wait, we did that already....and it turned out swell. (I'm being sarcastic of course) :redtowel:

texan_fan_8
10-21-2006, 02:30 PM
you don't think fumbling, wasting snaps, Sacks, & turnovers out of the passing game(our RBs only lost one fumble this year) have anything at all to do with it??

I agree, our running game could be better, but our passing game has problems of it's own as well.

Mistakes. If we can stop making mistakes, we'd be allright.


SHHHh...that implies David Carr might be an issue and you just can't say that around here.

Drastic Measure, start a different quarterback. See if you get a different result. I bet you do ;)

Double Barrel
10-21-2006, 02:31 PM
Why is that on the scouts and not the man pulling the strings? This is the first draft we've had where the scouts had considerable input. Can we at least see how this draft class plays out before we throw our scouts under the bus?

You provided links for other points you've made, so can you back this one up with a legitimate source? Saying you know someone that knows someone works both ways, but I do not reveal my 'insider information'.

I might be wrong in your eyes, but proof is in the pudding. Our FO has failed to stock this team with talent in five years of drafting. Their record speaks for itself, IMO.

EVERY one of these guys served as a scout for other teams, most notably the broncos, redskins, and patriots. This is a staff with decades of experience, and have worked their way up through the ranks.

No duh, bro'. You hire people with experience. That's a given. I could say the same exact thing about our coaching staff and our GM, too. But having experience does not necessarily equate to being good at it. The fact of the matter is that 4+ years of suck speaks volumes about EVERYONE in the FO.

Honoring Earl 34
10-21-2006, 03:12 PM
I would settle for them competing , knowing that they are starting over . We are not in the competing phase yet ... so you ask who cares enough to keep fighting when things suck . Theres not many because this team folds at the slightest setback , it needs leaders .

The Pencil Neck
10-21-2006, 03:55 PM
Belechick still took the 5-11 Browns to a 11-5 playoff year within the Texans time frame existence, though-yes, overall, he had a losing record at Cleveland. At age 37 (youngest coach in the NFL), B took over the Browns in '91 and had them in the 2nd round of the play-offs in '94.

He began his Pats 'Dynasty' in his 2nd year with the Pats and has had the winningest record in the NFL since--only HC in NFL history to win 3 SB's.


The point of this is that Kubiak has had less than a year to get it together and Belichick went 6-10, 7-9, 7-9, 11-5, 5-11 in his tenure with the Browns. AND Belichick went 5-11 his first year with the Patriots after they had gone 8-8 the year before.

Let's not throw the coaching staff under the bus just yet. Let's let them have a chance.

NATHANHALE
10-21-2006, 05:56 PM
The point of this is that Kubiak has had less than a year to get it together and Belichick went 6-10, 7-9, 7-9, 11-5, 5-11 in his tenure with the Browns. AND Belichick went 5-11 his first year with the Patriots after they had gone 8-8 the year before.

Let's not throw the coaching staff under the bus just yet. Let's let them have a chance.


...hey, I'll take 5 wins from Kubiak this year, and a SB in his 2nd...just kidding about the SB...'91 was Belechick's first year with Browns (age 37), prior yr team was 3-13...'91 Browns lost 7 games by a TD or less, 5 games by a FG or less...not bad for a newbie...

It's not about expecting this new staff to lead us to the play offs this year or even be a winning team....

dat_boy_yec
10-21-2006, 06:54 PM
As far as talent on this team goes I can't say it's all on our previous regime, I mean alot of the guys that are underperforming were brought in by Kubiak and some of the guys that were here that could've been replaced were given the seal of approval by Kubiak. Flannagan hasn't been everything he was cracked up to be, Walter hasn't had that big of an impact, he said from the get-go that our DT's needed to step up, but he didn't bring anybody else in before or during the pre-season. I can agree that Kubiak shouldn't bear all the responsibility, but he should share a big part in the way our season is going. Also it's not all about all the things he did do you also have to consider all the missed opportunities. Players we didn't persue that could've made a difference. All I'm saying is we shouldn't be making excuses for them. Even though it's easy to want to do that all I'm saying is look at the situation from a different perspective.

AustinJB
10-21-2006, 07:20 PM
...I mean alot of the guys that are underperforming were brought in by Kubiak and some of the guys that were here that could've been replaced were given the seal of approval by Kubiak.

I'm not ignoring the rest of your quote, but this just seems like a silly statement IMO.

Just b/c Kubes didn't replace someone doesn't necessarily mean that he was giving them his "seal of approval." It could mean that there was not anyone else available that was a considerable upgrade. Or it could mean that the ones that were available wanted too much money. Basically, I think it means he was just choosing the lesser evil.

It's obvious that he inherited a mess and we have a lot of holes to fill....So even if there was a ton of quality FAs available, what do you propose that Kubes should have done? Cut the entire team and resign all new players?

Obviously, this can't be done. Instead, he's weeding throught the garbage a little at a time as the season goes along and cutting players here and there after he's had enought time to evaluate them. This process will make room under the cap to sign impact players (whether they be through the draft or FA) next year and for years to come.:twocents:

thunderkyss
10-21-2006, 07:24 PM
As far as talent on this team goes I can't say it's all on our previous regime, I mean alot of the guys that are underperforming were brought in by Kubiak and some of the guys that were here that could've been replaced were given the seal of approval by Kubiak. Flannagan hasn't been everything he was cracked up to be, Walter hasn't had that big of an impact, he said from the get-go that our DT's needed to step up, but he didn't bring anybody else in before or during the pre-season. I can agree that Kubiak shouldn't bear all the responsibility, but he should share a big part in the way our season is going. Also it's not all about all the things he did do you also have to consider all the missed opportunities. Players we didn't persue that could've made a difference. All I'm saying is we shouldn't be making excuses for them. Even though it's easy to want to do that all I'm saying is look at the situation from a different perspective.

I think Flanagan is doing OK, in relation to the performance of the line as a whole. They'll get better, and I think he's going to be a big part of that.

Walter has been doing as good as any 3rd WR could be expected to, considering the number of times he's been thrown to.

I like Cook, as a recieving threat out of he back field, but he's useless for opening holes. but as many times as we've emptied our backfield, and managed to protect David with little help from our backs, I think he'll pan out in the near future.


DTs........... when he was making his decisions when he had time to do something, he was going by what he saw on film. GaryWalker, RobaireSmith, Travis Johnson, I think it's reasonable that Gary would think he could do something with our guys.

I mean it wasn't till he actually was able to spend time with our guys that he realized 'Baire wasn't worth waisting time on. & I think he's having second thoughts on TJ.

as far as missed opportunities... bringing players in.... I think he did try to get Bennett from N.O., but thought the cost was too high.... I think every situation where we passed on some great available player, it came down to a cost benefit situation. Had Kubiak spent the necessary capitol to get said player here, he'd be getting it from the "We paid too much" crowd.

Personnel wise, I think Kubiak has been throwing strikes, and it'll pay off for us eventually.

ATX_Texan
10-21-2006, 07:44 PM
Last yr. our biggest gripe was that the coaching sucked and that was our main reason for our record. By that implication even without personnel changes we should expect a turnaround. Since coaching was our biggest problem the new coaching staff should be making the biggest impact. However alot of people are totally blaming the personnel.

I think that the only people who blamed it all on coaching were following the tired and bogus logic of "Casserly is a draft genius that built Super Bowl teams for the Skins". The truth is that Casserly stunk as a GM in Washington. He was just as scattershot with his picks there and that team suffered because of him. He tried to hold on to his reputation by laying all the blame on Capers for the horrible picks with his excuses of "I am just doing what Capers wanted".

The evidence of the failure in personal is how Kubiak keeps cutting them and none have gone on to become stars somewhere else. It is going to take a while to clean up this mess.

Unfortunately, we also have the other problem of Capers and his equally incompetent staff that failed to develop the players that we had. Capers works best with veteran players as evidenced by the success of the defenses of his Panther and Texans teams. Both times he built veteran laden defenses that were very succesful initially. The problem was these guys were old and had a short shelf life. When he tried to replace the old vets with younger talent, the defenses here and in Carolina went belly up. He also took two promising quarterbacks and set both back with his predictable and conservative offenses.

Now, we will have to wait and see what Kubiak can do to salvage our younger talent from years of neglect at the hands of Mr. "Just Execute".

The people who thought coaching alone would right this sinking ship were delusional. The hope was that there could be a quick fix. Unfortunately, the decision of McNair to stand behind C&C too long has put this franchise right back to 2002. We basically looking at an expansion team.

FirstTexansFan
10-21-2006, 07:49 PM
Oh it's gonna be like THAT huh?
Well let's just take the gloves off then.
First off...not sure whether the "moron" in question is me or not...so I'll be mellow at first.
90% of my posts come in the No Spin Zone, so I don't know who YOU are referring to. I'm very cautious about my posts in the bullpen...because I'm QUITE AWARE of my own limitations with regards to NFL knowledge. I've NEVER claimed to know more than the NFL Owner, Coaches or players. NEVER! And since my blood pressure seems to be rising...I'll just leave it at that.




Actually I've never read anything from you that's been negative, only pointing out the error of your posting that we Homers are just as irritating :)

NATHANHALE
10-21-2006, 09:00 PM
"stand behind C&C too long"

Caper's 'swan song' was the 5 yr plan from the get-go, meaning he was not expected to field a winning team until the 5th year. Posters that spoused his 'short' comings were 'burned' at the stake, until 'things' got so bad even the :homer: 's wised-up and he was 'history.'

It's ironic now, though, because posters are starting to use the words and phrases of 'too long'--OK, so in retrospect, how much time does 'too long' translate into?...a season, maybe 2?

...and now, we have the Kubiak era. Did people 'honestly' think we were starting another '5 yr' plan when Kubiak was hired? No, I don't think so, though most won't admit that now. IMO, most posters expected a merger between an effective new HC with new assts and philosophies and players already here, intertwined with newbies to produce a much better product on the field in '06.

Absolutely, in no way/shape/or form did posters expect to see a 'carbon copy' of '02--never, in our wildest dreams did we anticipate 'deja vu.' IMO, if you say differently, you are not being honest...

Where does that leave us? First, we have a new offense and defense for which we do not have the 'right' players to successfully run them. Secondly, we have coaches that are learning as they go, needing experience to succeed. Third, we do not have the stability yet to be an effective team, meaning position gelling/effective game planning/player motivation, etc.

OK. Our only option at this point, IMO, is time. But, not like the first go around...Accountability. Progress. Commitment. We need these 3 things to happen and happen right now, as they are not something that should only come when winning comes, if it does. Without winning, there is no reason we should not expect to see a product on the field that gives 100%.

The fans are giving up a lot not to expect winning for our 5th year team--and we all know the 'rhetoric'--but, at the very least, we should look 'good' losing.

Second Honeymoon
10-21-2006, 09:37 PM
Considering most of the players that Kubiak has cut have not been picked up by other teams, I'd say it's a talent issue (or lack thereof). Face it, Casserly was a horrible GM, and our scouts are bottom of the barrel. We have to change the talent in the FO before we can expect to have any depth on this team. Picking your first/second round picks is easy enough, but the true talent of a staff is finding gems in later rounds, which we've never been good at.

Blaming Kubiak for this mess just five games into a season is silly.

You are speaking the gospel, buddy. Cass was a joke and McNair was sold a bill of goods by that loser. It's gonna take a while to get that stinky Cass smell off of our franchise. Once we do, hopefully Smith and Kubes can get this ship righted fast.

My biggest problem with Asserley was that he always triied to outsmart everyone else and never make the safe pick. Trading up to get Babin? Passing on Derrick Johnson 2 TIMES!! He would never draft many players from winning college programs either. When was the last time they drafted a Longhorn? Passed on Vasher and he would be our #1 corner with the way Burnta errrrr Dunta is playing. Passed on DJ, Redding, Vince Young, Roy Williams....and then goes out and wastes picks on Ragone, PBurnt, Joppru (TE in 2nd round in our 2nd year!?!?!)

He liked to draft a bunch of people from small schools and thinks he is freaking Einstein. Screw him. He was in love with his diamonds in the rough but they always turned out to be pieces of worthless coal. His hit-miss ration as GM was about as ugly as a polaroid of his face. Notice that none of our cast-offs are picked up by anyone and and the fact that Casserley is unemployed ...and last seen filing for food stamps and panhandling for change outside a DC-area 7-11....(oh and to those who point out that he is working as an analyst for CBS. That doesn't count as work..its more like a prison sentence to work on that unwatchable pregame show)

Asserley is horrible,

Doug From The Woodlands

--That sound you don't hear, is Casserley's phone not ringing--

TK_Gamer
10-21-2006, 09:54 PM
sorry but as I've stated before , the coachiing gripe I have is no confidence in our passing game, and calling running play after running play even on 3rd and short when everyone in the country except kubiak knows we arent gonna pick up the first down on the ground. or the coach turning the other way so he doesnt have to watch Carr try to complete on 3rd down. I also dont like calling players out on national tv and radio , that kinda thing needs to be done one on one in my oppinion. I dont blame kubiak for our players. but if he continues to have no faith in the one part of the game we do not totally suck at, our players will just get worse. you could see it in the dallas game, the attitude of the players in the 2nd half running plays they couldnt understand why we were running them. oh that and the fact that it took 3 losses to wake up richard smith and get him to call some blitzes. you cant blame that on the players either.

thunderkyss
10-21-2006, 10:15 PM
I also dont like calling players out on national tv and radio , that kinda thing needs to be done one on one in my oppinion. I dont blame kubiak for our players. but if he continues to have no faith in the one part of the game we do not totally suck at, our players will just get worse. you could see it in the dallas game, the attitude of the players in the 2nd half running plays they couldnt understand why we were running them. oh that and the fact that it took 3 losses to wake up richard smith and get him to call some blitzes. you cant blame that on the players either.

He was asked point blank about certain players. He looks like a man who tries to be as honest as he can be, with out hanging anyone. Mario needs to play better, that's all he said. That isn't calling out a player.

No faith in the one part of our game that results in wasted downs........ fumbles, incompletions, 4 yard passes on 3rd & 17. The part of our game that gave Indy the ball inside our 20 on two consecutive possesions. then come out and go 3 & out after the half, when our Defense had the game within 2 scores at that point.

&, we stopped blitzing when MarcBulger threw for like 200 yards in a half of preseason play. our coverage is soo week, going against philly, Indy, & Washington max coverage made sense.

Sure, those are the guys you want to pressure, at the same time, you've got to cover. Those guys got the ball out on time. Our coverage couldn't hold for 2 seconds....... our coverage is much worse than our front four.

TK_Gamer
10-22-2006, 02:24 AM
He was asked point blank about certain players. He looks like a man who tries to be as honest as he can be, with out hanging anyone. Mario needs to play better, that's all he said. That isn't calling out a player.

No faith in the one part of our game that results in wasted downs........ fumbles, incompletions, 4 yard passes on 3rd & 17. The part of our game that gave Indy the ball inside our 20 on two consecutive possesions. then come out and go 3 & out after the half, when our Defense had the game within 2 scores at that point.

&, we stopped blitzing when MarcBulger threw for like 200 yards in a half of preseason play. our coverage is soo week, going against philly, Indy, & Washington max coverage made sense.

Sure, those are the guys you want to pressure, at the same time, you've got to cover. Those guys got the ball out on time. Our coverage couldn't hold for 2 seconds....... our coverage is much worse than our front four.

Tk, you know I like discussing with you, we agree to disagree on alot, but we agree on some things. my biggest beef with kubiak though, is even when he sees thru the course of 2 quarters that we cant pick up a 3rd and 2, he still runs the ball, and ofcourse the defense is ready for us and we fail again. as you stated we do well at throwing that 4 to 6 yard pass to johnson or the slot reciever, so why not do that?, they do it off of play action or bootleg anyway, so why not at least try to convert on 3rd down? in the dallas game we had at least 4 failed attempts at getting 2 to 3 yards in one quarter alone. all were runs. and to me that's a coaching call, hey if you wanna run it, at least try something new. dominic davis could run off-tackle plays all day long, the guys we got now can not. and since we hardly ever pass on 3rd and short, a draw isnt gonna work either. sorry I'm just frustrated.