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kubs-elway
10-19-2006, 12:29 PM
I am a broncos fan, and now a texans fan out of loyalty to kubs. I read through your post and it makes me ill. Alot of you guys are missing the boat completely and i question your football knowledge. Some things to remember with the "system"

1.) Your O-Lineman are to slow to zone block. They are not getting to the second level. The linebackers are not getting blocked. The running backs are not good for any system. Kubs cant fix that with one year. It is insane and rediculous to think he can. The best part is to get the lineman he needs, he can draft them in the 4th through 6th round without killing the cap.

2.) Carr- The play book he has now is 250 pages thick. The are at least 7 audible calls per play. Everything is different, it is very hard for him and the recievers. The recievers you have came from non west coast. They are still learining to run the timing routes. It takes 3 years for a new system to be utilized completely.

3.) Kubs is cut throat like shannahan. If you dont perform with him you will be gone. I would look for alot more casulties as the year goes on. He will weed out the bad apples, and also will not sell his soul for a bad apple.(TO)

4.) Give him time and you will win, I would bet my life on it. The man knows football and has watched and learned from the man with the best winning percentage of the last 10 years.

IF YOU BELIEVE IT WILL COME

Double Barrel
10-19-2006, 12:39 PM
Good post, man, and a voice of reason in the wilderness of whack.

Kubiak is not a miracle worker. He inherited a team with a lot of talent that other teams wouldn't even have on their practice squads.

Jawja Texan
10-19-2006, 12:42 PM
That was a really great post. Lot of good points. :redtowel:

gtexan02
10-19-2006, 12:47 PM
I am a broncos fan, and now a texans fan out of loyalty to kubs. I read through your post and it makes me ill. Alot of you guys are missing the boat completely and i question your football knowledge. Some things to remember with the "system"

1.) Your O-Lineman are to slow to zone block. They are not getting to the second level. The linebackers are not getting blocked. The running backs are not good for any system. Kubs cant fix that with one year. It is insane and rediculous to think he can. The best part is to get the lineman he needs, he can draft them in the 4th through 6th round without killing the cap.

2.) Carr- The play book he has now is 250 pages thick. The are at least 7 audible calls per play. Everything is different, it is very hard for him and the recievers. The recievers you have came from non west coast. They are still learining to run the timing routes. It takes 3 years for a new system to be utilized completely.

3.) Kubs is cut throat like shannahan. If you dont perform with him you will be gone. I would look for alot more casulties as the year goes on. He will weed out the bad apples, and also will not sell his soul for a bad apple.(TO)

4.) Give him time and you will win, I would bet my life on it. The man knows football and has watched and learned from the man with the best winning percentage of the last 10 years.

IF YOU BELIEVE IT WILL COME

Responses to your post:

1) If Kubiak can draft the OL he needs in round 4-6, why didn't we pick up any OL at all during those rounds? If our OL are too big and slow, why did he draft 2 huge slow guys round 3? Why did he hire a non ZBS coach to coach the OL? If the backs aren't good for any system, why did he bring them here? Why didn't he try and get a different back? Why draft Lundy at 6th overall when there are supposedly better options undrafted?

2) Carr looks much better, and there are very few on this board who still claim he's the major problem. Saying the WRs aren't learning the routes is beyond me. If you had watched any of the games, you would have seen its not the fact that they aren't getting open or hitting the routes correctly, its that they are dropping the balls that do come to them frequently, and/or the playcalling has been horrendous and all we see is quick slant over and over. If the playbook is 250 pages long, why do we see the same plays over and over again?

3) Its not the cuts that bother us, its the fact that he cuts players we actually could have used. Robaire Smith, cut, now we have a HUGE hole at DT. Seth Wand, cut, now we have a HUGE hole at LT. Cut someone if they aren't playing up to par, fine, but only on a team with depth. You can't cut the weak link on a team like the Texans if you don't have someone to replace them with.

4) Give him time? Maybe you don't realize this as a Bronco's fan, but the Texans are the laughing stock of the NFL. We have never had a winning season. Heck, we've never even had a 0.500 season! We've been around long enough, and have had enough drafts and FA that I'm sick of waiting. Will I keep waiting? Yeah, but I expect to win every single year, and this is just another let down so far. We'll see how the year pans out.

Basically, I loved the Kubiak signing. He promised a running game, zone blocking, a productive offense, an improved OL, an aggressive defense, a team that adapts its system to fit the talents of its players, and overall a winning attitude in Houston. So far he has kept those promises all throughout the preseason, and then reverted into conserative playcalling and a keep it close attitude. I want him to suceed, and think he could if he had the right players around him. I'm just now so sure I want another system coach who will have to scrap 90% of the old coaches foundation in order to just get back to starting ground before taking over.

Meloy
10-19-2006, 12:56 PM
Brought aboard under Kube's watch:

1. Owen Daniels
2. Mike Flannagan
3. Nick Luchey
4. Wali Lundy
5. Eric Moulds
6. Jeb Putzier
7. Sage Rosenfels
8. Ephraim Salaam
9. Antowain Smith
10. Charles Spencer
11. Kevin Walters
12. Eric Winston
13. The newest back Gado

All I'm saying is Kube's choices do effect the team and he should get criticism with the congratulations. We realize there will continue to be changes. I applauded the selection of Mr.Kubiack and still think he will get things right. But I did expect to see more out of some of HIS choices than I have.

kubs-elway
10-19-2006, 01:03 PM
1.) He brought in sherman because he was the best available coach. When somebody is un employed that is a winner of course you bring them in, just makes your team better. What backs were availble when he brought what you have now in? The only option better than lundy was bell, he chose denver, houston had no chance.
2.) How can you call the play calling herendous when you dont have the abililty to see the coverages or sets. By the way even if the run doesnt work you still run. You Run the football to win. Alot of times with kubs youll what the hell he's doing until you see a d-back with broken ankles on the field and your reciever running for a touchdown. He sets people up over a series of posessions.
3.) If he cuts people you could use there is a reason. Maybe cap, maybe you dont know if he has 2 gap or 1 gap responsibilities that he is not taking care of, there are many reasons that are justified by watching hours of video of that player in practice and games, i would trust the coach with the tools he has to evaluate the players.
4.) As far as time, depending on the draft and free agents, i would promise that you will be in the playoffs in 3 years, if it werent for the dead money i would say 2 years. The cap problems make it very difficult.

PapaL
10-19-2006, 01:11 PM
1.) Your O-Lineman are to slow to zone block. They are not getting to the second level. The linebackers are not getting blocked. The running backs are not good for any system. Kubs cant fix that with one year. It is insane and rediculous to think he can. The best part is to get the lineman he needs, he can draft them in the 4th through 6th round without killing the cap.


We were using the ZBS before Kubs got here and the line was doing fine with it (15th or so in rushing last year?). So obviously they are not to slow to zone block. Running backs I will give. When we had a quicker more agile DD in there, we did middle of the pack rushing. Now that we have slow RBs....well the stats speak for themselves.

FirstTexansFan
10-19-2006, 01:12 PM
You miss the point completely Kubs-Elway :) See, our posters are smarter than any coach in the NFL! In fact, why we're paying that dummy Kubiak so much money is beyond me. If I was the owner, I'd just coach the team myself, and read this message board daily for my inspiration and game plan for next week :) I can't wait until our owner wakes up to this fact. We'd be in the Super Bowl this year if he'd ONLY listen! :killerbs:

kubs-elway
10-19-2006, 01:21 PM
LCROD, they may have called it zone blocking, but you werent. I guess when i speak of zone blocking i speak of the kind that has led the nfl the last 10 years in denver, or since alex gibbs went to atlanta and they started to put up 200 yards a game. When it is coached correctly with the correct people in place you will not ranked ranked 15th, it will be top 5 and it will actually be zone blocking.

mexican_texan
10-19-2006, 01:30 PM
Neither of our third round picks are slow. Winston ran the fastest 40 out of the linemen and Spencer has great footwork.

I'm sure I've read that he isn't completely running the Denver system, he's using some of Sherman's blocking until the linemen can pick up the scheme.

gtexan02
10-19-2006, 01:30 PM
1.) He brought in sherman because he was the best available coach. When somebody is un employed that is a winner of course you bring them in, just makes your team better. What backs were availble when he brought what you have now in? The only option better than lundy was bell, he chose denver, houston had no chance.
2.) How can you call the play calling herendous when you dont have the abililty to see the coverages or sets. By the way even if the run doesnt work you still run. You Run the football to win. Alot of times with kubs youll what the hell he's doing until you see a d-back with broken ankles on the field and your reciever running for a touchdown. He sets people up over a series of posessions.
3.) If he cuts people you could use there is a reason. Maybe cap, maybe you dont know if he has 2 gap or 1 gap responsibilities that he is not taking care of, there are many reasons that are justified by watching hours of video of that player in practice and games, i would trust the coach with the tools he has to evaluate the players.
4.) As far as time, depending on the draft and free agents, i would promise that you will be in the playoffs in 3 years, if it werent for the dead money i would say 2 years. The cap problems make it very difficult.


1) A winning team doesn't bring in good coaches just because they have big names. If you want to instill a certain philosophy in a team, you bring in guys that will do that. IF Kubiak wants ZBS here, I think bringing in a non-ZBS gy to coach the OL is a mistake.
You still didn't answer why he chose two huge guys in round 3, and no OL in rounds 4-6, when he supposedly is able to find ZBS diamonds.
I'll admit the RB thing was more bad luck than anything else. I think we all thought Davis would be starting.

2) We haven't committed to the run yet. We haven't run the ball hardly at all in the 2nd period. Running football doesn't win games unless teams actually respect your run. That is a common misconception. If you can stop the run with your nickel package in, theres no reason to stack the box and let the other team pass over you. No team respects our run game, and we aren't committing to it. Double fail there

3) So far I've seen less production from the guys we've kept than some of the ones we've cut. I think Kubiak made the right decision in cutting Wand and Smith, ASSUMING we have no injuries. But we lost 2 key guys in both of those positions and now we have no depth. There are a lot of injuries in football, and he shouldn't have counted on our starters being healthy all year.

4) I don't even want to discuss how depressing 3 more years of losing sounds...

infantrycak
10-19-2006, 01:38 PM
You still didn't answer why he chose two huge guys in round 3, and no OL in rounds 4-6, when he supposedly is able to find ZBS diamonds.

Because he thought they were bargains at their talent level in the 3rd? and better options than the other players available? The Broncos have used 1st day picks before and have drafted big guys before if they liked the way they moved--example George Foster 1st round pick 338 lbs--Denver RT.

Big J
10-19-2006, 01:42 PM
Wow, a post that tells it how it is while at the same time being optimistic about the future. Holy crap. Its a miracle.

Any person that honestly felt we could win more then 10 games was probably on some form of drug. While I didnt expect to perform the way we have, I feel confident the coaching staff/front office knows what they are doing to build for the future. Showing players that mediocracy is not tolerated, especially with overpaid players, sets a great example that Kubiak and Co. dont take crap.

Dont lose faith in Kubiak based on his first 5 performances. Other new head coaches have inherited stronger franchises and are more prepared to start winning now. You do have to wonder what our record would be with that back we passed over, but whatever its the long run that counts.

Thanks for the post Elway-Kubes or whatever. You are probably somehow related to Gary, but I still appreciate your opinion/comments.

Hulk75
10-19-2006, 01:55 PM
I am a broncos fan, and now a texans fan out of loyalty to kubs. I read through your post and it makes me ill. Alot of you guys are missing the boat completely and i question your football knowledge. Some things to remember with the "system"

1.) Your O-Lineman are to slow to zone block. They are not getting to the second level. The linebackers are not getting blocked. The running backs are not good for any system. Kubs cant fix that with one year. It is insane and rediculous to think he can. The best part is to get the lineman he needs, he can draft them in the 4th through 6th round without killing the cap.

2.) Carr- The play book he has now is 250 pages thick. The are at least 7 audible calls per play. Everything is different, it is very hard for him and the recievers. The recievers you have came from non west coast. They are still learining to run the timing routes. It takes 3 years for a new system to be utilized completely.

3.) Kubs is cut throat like shannahan. If you dont perform with him you will be gone. I would look for alot more casulties as the year goes on. He will weed out the bad apples, and also will not sell his soul for a bad apple.(TO)

4.) Give him time and you will win, I would bet my life on it. The man knows football and has watched and learned from the man with the best winning percentage of the last 10 years.

IF YOU BELIEVE IT WILL COME

Good Stuff!:cool:

Texans_Chick
10-19-2006, 01:56 PM
I am a broncos fan, and now a texans fan out of loyalty to kubs. I read through your post and it makes me ill. Alot of you guys are missing the boat completely and i question your football knowledge. Some things to remember with the "system"

1.) Your O-Lineman are to slow to zone block. They are not getting to the second level. The linebackers are not getting blocked. The running backs are not good for any system. Kubs cant fix that with one year. It is insane and rediculous to think he can. The best part is to get the lineman he needs, he can draft them in the 4th through 6th round without killing the cap.

2.) Carr- The play book he has now is 250 pages thick. The are at least 7 audible calls per play. Everything is different, it is very hard for him and the recievers. The recievers you have came from non west coast. They are still learining to run the timing routes. It takes 3 years for a new system to be utilized completely.

3.) Kubs is cut throat like shannahan. If you dont perform with him you will be gone. I would look for alot more casulties as the year goes on. He will weed out the bad apples, and also will not sell his soul for a bad apple.(TO)

4.) Give him time and you will win, I would bet my life on it. The man knows football and has watched and learned from the man with the best winning percentage of the last 10 years.

IF YOU BELIEVE IT WILL COME



Spot on.

I was reading through the post and fixin to respond to various nonsense, but you beat me to it.

Please feel free to hang around the MB. It would be nice to have more sane voices who know more about the Denver style system.

Texan1
10-19-2006, 01:57 PM
Kubes will get the job done - we know. He has to get a RB to fix the Offense and there are just alot of angry fans b/c he screwed up the Williams \ Bush pick. But we know he's a good coach.

kubs-elway
10-19-2006, 01:57 PM
1.) You dont bring in sherman because of his name, its because he has 30+years of coaching experience. Thats a no brainer.
2.) IN rescpect to the run the ball sucessfully comment. The broncos are 72-6 when rushing for 30 times or more, not 72-6 when running for 150 yards or more.
3.) Foster was drafted in the first round and was a big mistake. He is not our favorite lineman.
4.) By the way I AM NOT related to kubs. I grew up watching him back-up elway, i have attended the last 15 broncos training camp and watched him coach up close and personal. I have always respected him, and now as bronco fans we know how important he was with Jakes production now terrible, and we are questioning our play calling. Shanny didnt call the plays, he could overide them but kubs made the call.

HAVE FAITH

Texans_Chick
10-19-2006, 02:06 PM
kubs-elway,

You have a PM. :redtowel:

HOU-TEX
10-19-2006, 02:11 PM
1.) You dont bring in sherman because of his name, its because he has 30+years of coaching experience. Thats a no brainer.
2.) IN rescpect to the run the ball sucessfully comment. The broncos are 72-6 when rushing for 30 times or more, not 72-6 when running for 150 yards or more.
3.) Foster was drafted in the first round and was a big mistake. He is not our favorite lineman.
4.) By the way I AM NOT related to kubs. I grew up watching him back-up elway, i have attended the last 15 broncos training camp and watched him coach up close and personal. I have always respected him, and now as bronco fans we know how important he was with Jakes production now terrible, and we are questioning our play calling. Shanny didnt call the plays, he could overide them but kubs made the call.

HAVE FAITH

Very nice. I too, would like for you to stick around. It's nice to have someone around that has some good insight on Kubiak. Personally, I haven't doubted anything that Kubiak has done thus far. Well, except maybe the Robaire move.

TPIMP
10-19-2006, 02:11 PM
LCROD, they may have called it zone blocking, but you werent. I guess when i speak of zone blocking i speak of the kind that has led the nfl the last 10 years in denver, or since alex gibbs went to atlanta and they started to put up 200 yards a game. When it is coached correctly with the correct people in place you will not ranked ranked 15th, it will be top 5 and it will actually be zone blocking.

Kubs-Elway - What's your impression of the way the Texans are running the zone blocking? I was under the impression the zone blocking (the way Denver runs it) involved a lot of cut blocking, particularly on the backside of running plays. I'm not seeing that with the Texans. What do you see?

kubs-elway
10-19-2006, 02:24 PM
I have watched two games, and what i have seen is the line not in sync, and your center not coming off of the combo blocks and getting the trailing linebacker. The center is the key. Also the backs you have dont hit the hole fast enough, dayne had that problem with us, he was slow out of his stance. It will take time for this to work for you, i would say at least this entire season.

thunderkyss
10-19-2006, 02:26 PM
Responses to your post:

1) If Kubiak can draft the OL he needs in round 4-6, why didn't we pick up any OL at all during those rounds?

He Picked up two franchise OL in the third. I think we got our starting TE in the 4th, the guy who started our first game at RB in the 6th

If our OL are too big and slow, why did he draft 2 huge slow guys round 3?

Spencer was probably the best LT we ever put on the field.

Why did he hire a non ZBS coach to coach the OL?

I think he did hire a coach to teach the OL. Sherman came in afterwards, and will only be here for a season. He's an assistant headcoach/offense. But there aren't many pure ZBS coaches available for hire. Kubiak wasn't always a ZBS OL coach.

If the backs aren't good for any system, why did he bring them here? Why didn't he try and get a different back? Why draft Lundy at 6th overall when there are supposedly better options undrafted?

Dayne came from Wisconsin, where they run the ZBS, Denver picked him to participate in their ZBS.... he was impressive in their ZBS. Houston's head coach selected Dayne to participate in his ZBS. He's perfect for the ZBS

2) Carr looks much better, and there are very few on this board who still claim he's the major problem.

Plummer took Denver to the AFC Championship game. Still there are a lot of people who believe he is a big part of their problem.

3) Its not the cuts that bother us, its the fact that he cuts players we actually could have used. Robaire Smith, cut, now we have a HUGE hole at DT. Seth Wand, cut, now we have a HUGE hole at LT. Cut someone if they aren't playing up to par, fine, but only on a team with depth. You can't cut the weak link on a team like the Texans if you don't have someone to replace them with.

He gave each of those players an opportunity to prove that he could in fact use them. Even Buchanon. But when he saw enough, he saw enough. We do not have a huge hole at LT. Salaam is actually playing pretty good.

4) Give him time? Maybe you don't realize this as a Bronco's fan, but the Texans are the laughing stock of the NFL.

We are the laughing stock because of fans that are ready to fire our head coach after 5 games. Thrilled, almost giddy in the preseason..... fire him in the regular season.

Basically, I loved the Kubiak signing. He promised a running game, zone blocking, a productive offense, an improved OL, an aggressive defense, a team that adapts its system to fit the talents of its players, and overall a winning attitude in Houston. So far he has kept those promises all throughout the preseason, and then reverted into conserative playcalling and a keep it close attitude. I want him to suceed, and think he could if he had the right players around him. I'm just now so sure I want another system coach who will have to scrap 90% of the old coaches foundation in order to just get back to starting ground before taking over.
if Kubiak could've came in and started working with our boys last December, we'd have got rid of more of these players in the offseason....... I applaud GK for giving them all a shot. I'm sorry you think Robaire Smith would make this team better. But you won't find anyone with his build on the Denver Broncos.

We'd also be winning by now. But he didn't. He came in & started working with our players in April?? put pads on them in June.....

I don't understand how we're supposed to be beating INdy at this point. We were 8-0 against Indy when he got here. Beating Parcells & Bledsoe because we beat Campo & Quincy Carter?? I'm just not getting it.

We'll be a better team next week, and the week after that...and the week after that.

When was the last time you were able to say that about the Houston Texans??

TPIMP
10-19-2006, 02:39 PM
We were using the ZBS before Kubs got here and the line was doing fine with it (15th or so in rushing last year?). So obviously they are not to slow to zone block. Running backs I will give. When we had a quicker more agile DD in there, we did middle of the pack rushing. Now that we have slow RBs....well the stats speak for themselves.

I hear this all the time about how our running game has been good in the past. There is no arguing it has been better than it is now, but the Texans have always struggled to run the ball when the game was close or short yardage situations when the other team knew that we would run. Most of our rushing stats we are so proud of from last year we accumulated in the second half of games when we were behind by two scores or more and the defense let us run. It's why we only had 9 rushing TD's (25th) when we ranked 15th in yards. Prior to that the Texans used a different system. Strangely enough it's the system Dallas uses pretty effectively at the moment.

tsip
10-19-2006, 02:46 PM
Spot on.

I was reading through the post and fixin to respond to various nonsense, but you beat me to it.

Please feel free to hang around the MB. It would be nice to have more sane voices who know more about the Denver style system.

I think a couple of things led to the 'insane' voices. First, posters led us to believe Kubiak would have an 'immediate' impact on the field--many forcasting double digit wins, saying that we would have won those close games we loss under Capers if Kubes had been here--'coaching' alone will mean 5+ wins,et.,etc. Second-as the Chronicle even noted-Kubes 'preached' us a 'laundry' list of all the 'great' things we'd see right away from this team=

Last year, when Kubiak was hired, where was all the talk of 'be patient,' 'going to take years,' 'gotta replace most of the team,' etc. Ironically, in place of that forboding, we were hearing how quickly Kubes was goona win in Houston---and, guess who was saying that?

I'll save you the research-they are one and the same...

I'll be the first one to admit that I need to lower my expectations-what I thought would happen sooner than later, is not. There is no use complaining or whinning--won't change anything and just increases the frustration. I'm gonna sit back and visit the board and read the posts from those that change their 'stand' like the weather. I suspect, though-like with Capers-if things continue downward, the 'tune' of their posts will change just before they jump off---

...but maybe it won't go that way--instead, we could get that 'warm and fuzzy' atmosphere around here...and that would be great for all...:redtowel: idonno:

Texans_Chick
10-19-2006, 02:56 PM
I hear this all the time about how our running game has been good in the past. There is no arguing it has been better than it is now, but the Texans have always struggled to run the ball when the game was close or short yardage situations when the other team knew that we would run. Most of our rushing stats we are so proud of from last year we accumulated in the second half of games when we were behind by two scores or more and the defense let us run. It's why we only had 9 rushing TD's (25th) when we ranked 15th in yards. Prior to that the Texans used a different system. Strangely enough it's the system Dallas uses pretty effectively at the moment.

Also, don't forget the David running for his life yardage. That tended to inflate prior year's rushing yards.

infantrycak
10-19-2006, 03:07 PM
Also, don't forget the David running for his life yardage. That tended to inflate prior year's rushing yards.

Bingo. Carr was the AFC rushing leader. Take his running out of the equation since like almost every team except Atlanta it was unintended and the Texans had 1508 rushing yds which would put them in 25th spot on rushing yds and the ypc would drop from 4.2 ypc to 3.9 ypc.

GP
10-19-2006, 04:24 PM
I have watched two games, and what i have seen is the line not in sync, and your center not coming off of the combo blocks and getting the trailing linebacker. The center is the key. Also the backs you have dont hit the hole fast enough, dayne had that problem with us, he was slow out of his stance. It will take time for this to work for you, i would say at least this entire season.

You hit this one right on the head.

I saw Flanagan getting smoked on a play where off the snap he tried to pull for the run block and he couldn't get there fast enough. The commentators caught it and replayed it, showing that the play failed pretty much due to the center not getting to his spot.

I think Flanagan is an upgrade at center of what we'd put out there in the past. However, I wonder if Kubiak is trying to just establish at least some sort of normalcy this season just for the sake of our sanity. I think he knows very well that the players he has are average at best. I think he knows that he's got a few seasons before this team can be truly competitive every weekend.

With Capers, it was just maintenance after every loss. Maintain. Maintain. Maintain. With Kubiak, you can see the thought process that we're going to keep cutting/signing/trading people until we find guys that fit into his plans. And even then, you're not safe--You might still get cut a few weeks into getting signed on our team.

Thank you for the realistic optimism.

NATHANHALE
10-19-2006, 04:29 PM
"We'll be a better team next week, and the week after that...and the week after that."

TK, at least you and Kubiak have one thing in common--you both make promises you don't keep....

Marcus
10-19-2006, 04:35 PM
I am a broncos fan, and now a texans fan out of loyalty to kubs. I read through your post and it makes me ill. Alot of you guys are missing the boat completely and i question your football knowledge. Some things to remember with the "system"

1.) Your O-Lineman are to slow to zone block. They are not getting to the second level. The linebackers are not getting blocked. The running backs are not good for any system. Kubs cant fix that with one year. It is insane and rediculous to think he can. The best part is to get the lineman he needs, he can draft them in the 4th through 6th round without killing the cap.

2.) Carr- The play book he has now is 250 pages thick. The are at least 7 audible calls per play. Everything is different, it is very hard for him and the recievers. The recievers you have came from non west coast. They are still learining to run the timing routes. It takes 3 years for a new system to be utilized completely.

3.) Kubs is cut throat like shannahan. If you dont perform with him you will be gone. I would look for alot more casulties as the year goes on. He will weed out the bad apples, and also will not sell his soul for a bad apple.(TO)

4.) Give him time and you will win, I would bet my life on it. The man knows football and has watched and learned from the man with the best winning percentage of the last 10 years.

IF YOU BELIEVE IT WILL COME

:whoohoo: kubs-elway! It's gets harder and harder each and every day to get something insightful on this MB without having to wade through all of this unrealistic and downright dumb impatience.

It's incredulous to me that people who say that the previous front office mismanaged the team so bad that it's actually worse off 4 years later than when it began, (and they are right about that, sadly) are the very same ones who are criticizing Kubiak for not turning it around overnight.

And for some of these goofballs who predicted 9-7, 10-6, or 13-3 seasons after seeing what happened last year, and seeing how bad Casserly mismanaged the talent, either through the draft or FA, I say they only have themselves to blame for their disappointment and frustration.

Anyways, stick around. I look forward to reading more of your posts.

painekiller
10-19-2006, 04:36 PM
We were using the ZBS before Kubs got here and the line was doing fine with it (15th or so in rushing last year?). So obviously they are not to slow to zone block. Running backs I will give. When we had a quicker more agile DD in there, we did middle of the pack rushing. Now that we have slow RBs....well the stats speak for themselves.

Yes we used a form of zone blocking. Nothing like what Denver/Atlanta use. Both teams use small fast guys. Last I looked that was not in Weigert and McKinney's resume, so Kubiak has some more replacing to do. And that takes time.

You can turn your roster over a third at a time, so 3 years looks doable.

TPIMP
10-19-2006, 04:39 PM
Also, don't forget the David running for his life yardage. That tended to inflate prior year's rushing yards.

Very true! In 2005 he had 308 yards. That's only 17 less than Wells.

TPIMP
10-19-2006, 04:42 PM
Bingo. Carr was the AFC rushing leader. Take his running out of the equation since like almost every team except Atlanta it was unintended and the Texans had 1508 rushing yds which would put them in 25th spot on rushing yds and the ypc would drop from 4.2 ypc to 3.9 ypc.

That 3.9ypc is exactly the same as year 2003 and 2004.

Bamaborn-Texasbred
10-19-2006, 04:52 PM
We all need a magic pill that will keep us content until this time next year. Neither Kubiak nor any of these new players were going to turn this franchise into something respectable the first five games of the season.

All this batch of stew needs is time to simmer. About one more year.

Texanfan4ever
10-19-2006, 05:00 PM
What happened here is most everyone was so excited to get rid of Capers and Co., and then get Kubiak in his place, that the realistic expectations were totally out of wack. Before the year ever began most people didn't think we would win the first 3 games anyway. But you always hope. We've seen the Texans pull off some unbelievable wins over the years. We have had a lot of highs and a LOT of lows.

Kubiak is nothing like Capers. He is constantly changing things.

I HAVE FAITH!!!! AND I BELIEVE!! :redtowel:

Texanfan4ever
10-19-2006, 05:02 PM
Oh yeah!! And I think we are going to beat the Jags on Sunday!!

Go Battle Red Day!!!!! :homer:

prostock101
10-19-2006, 05:38 PM
I am a broncos fan, and now a texans fan out of loyalty to kubs. I read through your post and it makes me ill. Alot of you guys are missing the boat completely and i question your football knowledge. Some things to remember with the "system"

1.) Your O-Lineman are to slow to zone block. They are not getting to the second level. The linebackers are not getting blocked. The running backs are not good for any system. Kubs cant fix that with one year. It is insane and rediculous to think he can. The best part is to get the lineman he needs, he can draft them in the 4th through 6th round without killing the cap.

2.) Carr- The play book he has now is 250 pages thick. The are at least 7 audible calls per play. Everything is different, it is very hard for him and the recievers. The recievers you have came from non west coast. They are still learining to run the timing routes. It takes 3 years for a new system to be utilized completely.

3.) Kubs is cut throat like shannahan. If you dont perform with him you will be gone. I would look for alot more casulties as the year goes on. He will weed out the bad apples, and also will not sell his soul for a bad apple.(TO)

4.) Give him time and you will win, I would bet my life on it. The man knows football and has watched and learned from the man with the best winning percentage of the last 10 years.

IF YOU BELIEVE IT WILL COME

Finally, a voice of reason above all the "quick fix" whinners. Of all the new coaches this year, he inherited the runt of the litter. Give him time and we'll see a good team here.

dat_boy_yec
10-19-2006, 06:22 PM
Welcome to the boards Kubs-Elway, I wasn't here to respond to all your points as you were making them so I'll take a shot at everything you've said so far.

1. Running backs, you act as if Kubiak was only here right before the draft and not before. He knew of the injury concerns with D. Davis and him not taking a RB in FA is what led alot of us to believe he would take Bush. There were alot of good-decent RB's that would be upgrades over what we have now. Chester Taylor and Michael Bennet being two of them. Even now Lee Suggs is out there and we haven't even hinted at bringing him in to work him out. While your team with it's potent rushing attack brought him in for a work-out. Kubs says he's always looking for the best talent out there, well why not give him a work out at least?

2. O-line, I'm not negative about our talent. We've suffered injuries that have thined out our talent. However you pointed out that Flannagan is a problem, this I agree with. Nobody on this board seems to notice that when Flannagan was out we had our better rushing performances. Pitts and Weary will do well in the system until next yr. What I'm critical about Kubiak is that while we ordinary fans see some things that aren't working he who spends hours watching film doesn't pinpoint these discrepancies. Hodgdon has been dogged on these boards, but I believe at the moment he would be our best option. By the way TK you're delusional if you don't think we have a hole at tackle. Salaam is our swing tackle and Winston is supposed to be his back-up we lost both our starting tackles and they are being backed up by a guard. It's also gone unsaid that in pre-season while Spencer provided better protection in our pass-game Wand did better in the run game. This is the thing I didn't like about Kubiak, you bring in Sherman to be you o-line coach and instead of deferring to him you cut a guy he was happy having. Another thing Sherman signed a multi-yr. deal, it's only assumed he'll be here a yr. because everyone thinks he'll get a head coaching job next season, but that's not guaranteed and he could be back. You're commenting on our line, but I think it will be fine. My thoughts on it, Sherman is being to loyal to Flannagan. I think we should bring Wand back, he's familiar with the system and could step in, however I don't see this happening because that window of opportunity seems to not be to Kubiak's liking for whatever reason.

dat_boy_yec
10-19-2006, 06:32 PM
3. Carr/ receivers. I think they are doing well, matter of fact they are the bright spots so far. I have no doubt they'll get the playbook down and our receivers are doing a good job with routes and everything.

4. Time is of the essence, we could be putting a better product on the field we have the players, it's just confusing to see him not doing some things. I won't wait until next yr. I'm sure he'll figure out these things before the end of this season. I can understand him not wanting to call players out, but hearing him say he has no idea why we broke down in the second half or what's happened is confusing. If he's gonna be honest to the fans he should be honest about everything and not try to say what he thinks we wanna hear.

5. Game planning, this is where it all falls on him and I expect major improvements in the upcoming games. He seems to want to come in fully adjusted for the next opponent, hence why we do well in the beginning and struggle later on. In my opinion he should come in and run his gameplan and try to impose his will on the game, then if it's not working implement the adjustment's this way he may not do everything in the first half and give the opposing team time to see everything he's got and adjust to it at half-time. He has fullbacks and we seem to not use them much because he want's to play the other team at their game. I could go on about this, but like I said, I expect improvement's in the upcoming games.

thunderkyss
10-19-2006, 08:15 PM
And for some of these goofballs who predicted 9-7, 10-6, or 13-3 seasons after seeing what happened last year, and seeing how bad Casserly mismanaged the talent, either through the draft or FA, I say they only have themselves to blame for their disappointment and frustration.

Anyways, stick around. I look forward to reading more of your posts.

Hey....... I resemble that remark.

I predicted 13-3 at the beginning of the season...... may not have sounded realistic, but I think I was pretty straightforward about not being realistic when I made it. I don't care about being realistic. I like to feel like we can win everygame, because I hope our players feel like they can win every game.

Sounds a bit silly, but I'd only be dissappointed, if Kubiak can't get our guys to think they can win every single game. Otherwise, they're waisting our money.

I'm not upset in the slightest that we are 1-5. I'm not upset that we've been blown out & didn't look competitive at all in 4 of the 5 games.

I expected a lot out of some of our players, that I shouldn't have. I've overestimated the talent level of some of our players, and I was wrong about the desire to succeed, of some of our players. These things happen. I'll have to adjust my outlook on the rest of the season accordingly.

We've got 11 games left, I'm thinking 8-3.... :redtowel:

keyfro
10-19-2006, 09:56 PM
first things first...anyone wanting to throw kubiak under the bus needs to have their head examined...he has walked into a 2-14 team from last year...changed the defense which will take atleast 3 years to get on track...changed the offense to where we can now see that carr is worth more than just a bench that a lot of us were wanting to see him on...he has made carr a quality starting qb...sure he needs more work but you can see the progress every game...we can now pass block...we have some talent on offense but we need more...personally i think our talent level is in the bottom 5 in the league and we just need to give coach kub more time...in three years we'll see how good of a coach he really is

wwffan99tx
10-19-2006, 10:05 PM
My only problem with Kubiak so far is his close to the vest play calling. Texans are going to lose a majority of their games this year. That's a given. But at least make them somewhat entertaining losses. Take shots down the field. I'd rather them lose 35-28 than 34-6 every week.

NATHANHALE
10-19-2006, 10:15 PM
My only problem with Kubiak so far is his close to the vest play calling. Texans are going to lose a majority of their games this year. That's a given. But at least make them somewhat entertaining losses. Take shots down the field. I'd rather them lose 35-28 than 34-6 every week.

...very good point and something a lot of posters don't seem to understand-ok, we know we're going to lose but why do we have to play that way?

...why not be agressive? why not take shots down the field? why not gamble?

...if we're going to lose anyway, why not try different 'stuff'?

...think about it...how are we going to ever learn how to win if we keep 'playing not to lose?'...once the team has everything in place and has exhausted everything it could possibly need to win, is there a 'switch' we turn on to go from 'playing to lose' to 'playing to win?'...nah,JMO, but I don't think so...

Doug
10-19-2006, 10:20 PM
I have a serious question in need of a serious answer. Where is everyone getting this, "Kubiak Promised", stuff from? I've heard him say we're going to do this and we're going to do that but I've never heard him say "I promise". People always say they are going to do something and when certain things change so do alot of other things, including the initial ideas. I guess having 3 kids who use that word the way it's used on this message board it gets a little irritating.

Marcus
10-19-2006, 10:22 PM
...very good point and something a lot of posters don't seem to understand-ok, we know we're going to lose but why do we have to play that way?

...why not be agressive? why not take shots down the field? why not gamble?

...if we're going to lose anyway, why not try different 'stuff'?

...think about it...how are we going to ever learn how to win if we keep 'playing not to lose?'...once the team has everything in place and has exhausted everything it could possibly need to win, is there a 'switch' we turn on to go from 'playing to lose' to 'playing to win?'...nah,JMO, but I don't think so...
:um: We lost the game 34-6 because we played 'not to lose'?:confused: Here I thought we lost because we got our asses kicked.

Don't you think the other team is playing a type of defense that would make it very hard to take shots down the field? But who cares? Throw it down there anyway. And be sure to scream the loudest when Carr get's it picked off . . . like I know you will.

HJam72
10-19-2006, 10:29 PM
Maybe we should stop playing "to lose". :)

whiskeyrbl
10-19-2006, 10:34 PM
He has also said repeatedly that this was gonna take time. This year is going to be finding a core of players while trying to be competitive. This is gonna take at least 3 years,So strap in for the haul. Your either a fan or a Texan Fan!! Which one are you. I'm strapped in I got my season tickets 3 weeks ago.

TPIMP
10-19-2006, 11:20 PM
...very good point and something a lot of posters don't seem to understand-ok, we know we're going to lose but why do we have to play that way?

...why not be agressive? why not take shots down the field? why not gamble?

...if we're going to lose anyway, why not try different 'stuff'?

...think about it...how are we going to ever learn how to win if we keep 'playing not to lose?'...once the team has everything in place and has exhausted everything it could possibly need to win, is there a 'switch' we turn on to go from 'playing to lose' to 'playing to win?'...nah,JMO, but I don't think so...

So you're telling us that if the Texans force the ball down field, that after David Carr's 5th interception you would not be found here complaining?

NATHANHALE
10-20-2006, 12:20 AM
So you're telling us that if the Texans force the ball down field, that after David Carr's 5th interception you would not be found here complaining?

...Eagles torched Dallas throwing down the field...we have no running game...all teams play us like Dallas and take our verticle passing game away...what's left?...against Dallas, dinking and dunking didn't even work enough to get us a TD...geeezzzzzzzzz

...and we're not even talking about winning here...we were just talking about trying some different things to score a few points...sorry, I realize now I was asking too much...will just go back in my corner, now--is that at least OK?...or will that offend somebody??

NATHANHALE
10-20-2006, 12:30 AM
:um: We lost the game 34-6 because we played 'not to lose'?:confused: Here I thought we lost because we got our asses kicked.

Don't you think the other team is playing a type of defense that would make it very hard to take shots down the field? But who cares? Throw it down there anyway. And be sure to scream the loudest when Carr get's it picked off . . . like I know you will.

...we can't run--other team takes away our verticle passing game--ok, I got it now---that's why we dink and dunk so much!...now, we just need to get our defense to do the same and we can see who can dink and dunk the best!!...you're so smart, like I knew you were!!!

NATHANHALE
10-20-2006, 01:15 AM
http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl?id=2006_4210651


...article to read

The Mighty Texan
10-20-2006, 04:40 AM
I am a broncos fan, and now a texans fan out of loyalty to kubs. I read through your post and it makes me ill. Alot of you guys are missing the boat completely and i question your football knowledge. Some things to remember with the "system"

1.) Your O-Lineman are to slow to zone block. They are not getting to the second level. The linebackers are not getting blocked. The running backs are not good for any system. Kubs cant fix that with one year. It is insane and rediculous to think he can. The best part is to get the lineman he needs, he can draft them in the 4th through 6th round without killing the cap.

2.) Carr- The play book he has now is 250 pages thick. The are at least 7 audible calls per play. Everything is different, it is very hard for him and the recievers. The recievers you have came from non west coast. They are still learining to run the timing routes. It takes 3 years for a new system to be utilized completely.

3.) Kubs is cut throat like shannahan. If you dont perform with him you will be gone. I would look for alot more casulties as the year goes on. He will weed out the bad apples, and also will not sell his soul for a bad apple.(TO)

4.) Give him time and you will win, I would bet my life on it. The man knows football and has watched and learned from the man with the best winning percentage of the last 10 years.

IF YOU BELIEVE IT WILL COME

I love your post!... You are right. But would you agree the RB situation was a disaster from the start because we THOUGHT Davis would be ok and he wasn't. Yet, no one adressed this till way too late?

I would be interested to hear what you think about Michael Turner as a RB for next year? I brought this up an got thrashed for it. But, I still believe he would fit in this style of offense. I think his vision and his speed burst is what would work for us. What would you think? San Diego can't keep both LT and MT... What would your take be on this to hope for another 1st pick next year or go for MT?


The Mighty Texan

touttail
10-20-2006, 06:19 AM
Good post k-e.

The old saying, You can't build Rome in one day, holds true for this team.

I do believe we should give Kubes every benefit of the doubt. My gosh, look what he came in to, a 2-14 team. I agree what someone else said, some of our starters wouldn't even be on other teams practice squad.

Just like Texas Stadium. The championship flags Dallas had hanging, the ring of honor, the awe & tradition that had been in that stadium. With my sitting there looking at all of this. The Astros just started hanging some champ. flags not too long ago(besides the 86 team). We will have to build on this to have traditions and a team that we all can be proud of!

I too do my share of biatching, but at least we have NFL in Houston. Let's do support that fact. We could be having to go to Dallas to support a NFL team, God forbid. Lets all continue to be a Texan supporter. Thank Bob McNair for giving us a team in Houston! Don't let this team get away from us!!!!!!

Granted, we do have the right to gripe and make our points heard. I too will continue to do so, but on the other hand appreciating what we DO HAVE in Houston!.

Peace to all,

Bobby 119C

infantrycak
10-20-2006, 08:33 AM
I would be interested to hear what you think about Michael Turner as a RB for next year? I brought this up an got thrashed for it.

You didn't get thrashed for it because Turner would be a bad fit--he would be a very good fit. You got responses which explained why it is unlikely--specifically an explanation of the RFA rules and how it is likely a team will have to give up more draft value than the Texans would be wise to do in order to pry him away from SD.

kubs-elway
10-20-2006, 09:08 AM
Turner would be a great fit in any system, especially in the ZBS. He is a one cut and gone back, plus he is good at blocking and recieving. Your back HAS to be able to block in west coast

Battle Red Flash
10-20-2006, 09:56 AM
4.) Give him time and you will win, I would bet my life on it.

Time is the key. Too many fans want the playoffs now.
New offensive system, new defensive system, new coaches, and many new players. Historically, this means growing pains. I see what Kubes is trying to do, and I'm willing to give him time to do it. :twocents:

GuerillaBlack
10-20-2006, 09:59 AM
Well, the Dom Capers Era certainly didn't work. When they upped to 7-9 in 2004, things seemed like they were going to get better. Then somewhere the bottom fell out.

Enter the Gary Kubes Era. I believe he will eventually get the people he wants to suit his system which works so well in Denver.

This is still a very young franchise that merely ended Phase I and is now entering Phase II. Sometimes Phase I doesn't work out, as it was the case here. What are you gonna do? At least the Texans did pick a proven winner in Kubes who will need some time with this advent of Phase II.

No one can deny the noticeable improvement in the offense...and this is considering Dom Davis isn't even available this year. Sure, the running game sucks. But aren't there teams out there whose running games would suck if their projected or star running back had to sit out the year? One great positive is the growing chemistry between Carr and AJ.

The defense is a big project, to be sure. But perhaps, defense can feed on the offense. And once Dom Davis is up and healthy, that should be a good windfall for the Texans' O next year.

phan1
10-20-2006, 10:05 AM
Right now, the only serious complaint I have is him hiring Sherman. Looked fantastic on paper, but hasn't produced anything at all thus far. Plus, Kubiak looks just fine out there, and Sherman hasn't looked like he's had to mentor Kubiak at all. Right now, all it looks like he's doing is screwing up our Oline. I'm pretty sure he won't be here next season.

thunderkyss
10-20-2006, 10:49 AM
My only problem with Kubiak so far is his close to the vest play calling. Texans are going to lose a majority of their games this year. That's a given. But at least make them somewhat entertaining losses. Take shots down the field. I'd rather them lose 35-28 than 34-6 every week.

I agree, but just because David threw a 4 yard underneath route doesn't mean there wasn't a deeper route available. If you see two WRs, a TE, and the FB release into the field, that could very well mean there are 4 options for David to choose.

NATHANHALE
10-20-2006, 11:02 AM
Well, the Dom Capers Era certainly didn't work. When they upped to 7-9 in 2004, things seemed like they were going to get better. Then somewhere the bottom fell out.

Enter the Gary Kubes Era. I believe he will eventually get the people he wants to suit his system which works so well in Denver.

This is still a very young franchise that merely ended Phase I and is now entering Phase II. Sometimes Phase I doesn't work out, as it was the case here. What are you gonna do? At least the Texans did pick a proven winner in Kubes who will need some time with this advent of Phase II.

No one can deny the noticeable improvement in the offense...and this is considering Dom Davis isn't even available this year. Sure, the running game sucks. But aren't there teams out there whose running games would suck if their projected or star running back had to sit out the year? One great positive is the growing chemistry between Carr and AJ.

The defense is a big project, to be sure. But perhaps, defense can feed on the offense. And once Dom Davis is up and healthy, that should be a good windfall for the Texans' O next year.

First, considering the state this team is in, I too believe it will be many many years before we are a winning team--saying 3 yrs, IMO, is generous.

"No one can deny the noticeable improvement in the offense"

However, where is the back-up for statements like this? In '06 rankings compared to where we finished in '05, our offense in both years is ranked 30th in total offense and has the same ranking in scoring at 27th. Where is this 'noticable difference?'

OK, Carr has better stats so far, but we are talking TEAM.

I absolutely agree that it's going to take years and years to get all the players we need to fit 'perfectly' in Kubiak's (or whoever) system, but I think it's 'counter productive' to say something is 'noticeably better' without backing it up.....

...too, several posters are talking about Dom Davis returning next year and that is still a big big 'question mark'---JMO, but we should plan without him and-if he comes back able to play, great (a bonus)---remember, DRs said DD's knee is not going to get better and DD said he won't play until it feels like it 'use to'.............

thunderkyss
10-20-2006, 11:03 AM
So are we giving up on this season?? ARe we conceding 11 more losses??

Or is it too early to tell what our record would be when it's all said & done??

valleytexfan
10-20-2006, 11:35 AM
I am a broncos fan, and now a texans fan out of loyalty to kubs. I read through your post and it makes me ill. Alot of you guys are missing the boat completely and i question your football knowledge. Some things to remember with the "system"

1.) Your O-Lineman are to slow to zone block. They are not getting to the second level. The linebackers are not getting blocked. The running backs are not good for any system. Kubs cant fix that with one year. It is insane and rediculous to think he can. The best part is to get the lineman he needs, he can draft them in the 4th through 6th round without killing the cap.

2.) Carr- The play book he has now is 250 pages thick. The are at least 7 audible calls per play. Everything is different, it is very hard for him and the recievers. The recievers you have came from non west coast. They are still learining to run the timing routes. It takes 3 years for a new system to be utilized completely.

3.) Kubs is cut throat like shannahan. If you dont perform with him you will be gone. I would look for alot more casulties as the year goes on. He will weed out the bad apples, and also will not sell his soul for a bad apple.(TO)

4.) Give him time and you will win, I would bet my life on it. The man knows football and has watched and learned from the man with the best winning percentage of the last 10 years.

IF YOU BELIEVE IT WILL COME

Great post...and I do, in fact, believe.

NATHANHALE
10-20-2006, 11:52 AM
So are we giving up on this season?? ARe we conceding 11 more losses??

Or is it too early to tell what our record would be when it's all said & done??

Unfortunately, TK, as the team has produced similar results to the last 4 years, there has been a 'major' shift toward 3+ years before we win more than we lose. Initially, when Kubiak was first hired, there was a 'sooner than later' win 'anticipation' but that is dying down after all the 'posts that say differently (to be nice)...

Too, IMO, we'll see fewer posts that offer criticism of any kind about the performances we see on the field--there is a 'general' feeling that if you can't 'say' something 'good,' don't say anything at all...you can sense this from the posts that-don't just disagree with another poster-but offer a 'response' that is a 'little' more 'personal.'

Texans_Chick
10-20-2006, 11:56 AM
So are we giving up on this season?? ARe we conceding 11 more losses??

Or is it too early to tell what our record would be when it's all said & done??

I am not conceeding anything.

I think it all depends on whether our defense can be just adequate versus tragic. There have been signs of life over the last two games. I think the team can goof around with the offense enough to deal with its personnel shortcomings, but it is going to need some defensive/special teams help.

The Texans have played a hard schedule, and this week doesn't make it easier.

The question is whether the Texans can survive the road show coming up. Whether it makes them stronger as a team, or more fragile.

real
10-20-2006, 11:56 AM
I heard someone on the Radio suggesting that instead of Battle Red day we do a "surrender white day".....LMAO....I didn't like the thought of giving in but it was funny none the less....

Dread-Head
10-20-2006, 11:58 AM
I am a broncos fan, and now a texans fan out of loyalty to kubs. I read through your post and it makes me ill. Alot of you guys are missing the boat completely and i question your football knowledge. Some things to remember with the "system"

1.) Your O-Lineman are to slow to zone block. They are not getting to the second level. The linebackers are not getting blocked. The running backs are not good for any system. Kubs cant fix that with one year. It is insane and rediculous to think he can. The best part is to get the lineman he needs, he can draft them in the 4th through 6th round without killing the cap.

2.) Carr- The play book he has now is 250 pages thick. The are at least 7 audible calls per play. Everything is different, it is very hard for him and the recievers. The recievers you have came from non west coast. They are still learining to run the timing routes. It takes 3 years for a new system to be utilized completely.

3.) Kubs is cut throat like shannahan. If you dont perform with him you will be gone. I would look for alot more casulties as the year goes on. He will weed out the bad apples, and also will not sell his soul for a bad apple.(TO)

4.) Give him time and you will win, I would bet my life on it. The man knows football and has watched and learned from the man with the best winning percentage of the last 10 years.

IF YOU BELIEVE IT WILL COME


I kinda have to agree on this one. The man has barely been in charge 1/3 of a season and still has to clear a bunch of the mistakes made by his predacessors.

DH

Dread-Head
10-20-2006, 11:59 AM
So are we giving up on this season?? ARe we conceding 11 more losses??

Or is it too early to tell what our record would be when it's all said & done??

Landry's 1st season with a certain team in Dallas he lost every game. Johnson's 1st season with the same team years later...only won one. You can't implement a new system and expect things to do a complete 180 overnight.

DH

BigDTexansFan
10-20-2006, 12:05 PM
I don't even want to discuss how depressing 3 more years of losing sounds...

you know what I find depresssing, is the constant whine of what if we lose again and again...got a word for fans like that (deritive of cat)...is this about success or so you can run up and own road bragging you are a Texans fan....you know and I know is about living through the team...they are winners I AM A WINNER....BS!!!!

You are a texans fan WIN OR LOSE or you are some mealymouthed little punk who thinks because he buys a ticket he has right to rip anyone and everyone because we aren't making him happy.

BUY A CLUE EINSTEIN:brickwall

real
10-20-2006, 12:12 PM
you know what I find depresssing, is the constant whine of what if we lose again and again...got a word for fans like that (deritive of cat)...is this about success or so you can run up and own road bragging you are a Texans fan....you know and I know is about living through the team...they are winners I AM A WINNER....BS!!!!

You are a texans fan WIN OR LOSE or you are some mealymouthed little punk who thinks because he buys a ticket he has right to rip anyone and everyone because we aren't making him happy.

BUY A CLUE EINSTEIN:brickwall


It's just a game...nothing more.....

thunderkyss
10-20-2006, 01:21 PM
Landry's 1st season with a certain team in Dallas he lost every game. Johnson's 1st season with the same team years later...only won one. You can't implement a new system and expect things to do a complete 180 overnight.

DH

we can find examples that are totally opposite from this as well.

Marvin Lewis took over a team that was 2-14, and had a "culture of loosing" His first year, they went 8-8. The following year they were the favorites in the AFC championship game.

This season isn't over yet. I continue to see improvement in DavidCarr, the OLine, the Defensive line, & the LBs...

I beleive for the most part, we are our own worst enemy. Turnovers, small mistakes, and miscommunication has led to our "blow-outs" and I feel they are small things that can be fixed, with practice, patience, and focus.

We've got 11 games coming up..... while none of them can be seen as gauranteed wins, we've got a chance to win them all if we don't beat ourselves.

we've got weaknesses on our team...... but so does everybody else, we need to get better at compensating for our weaknesses, and exploiting theirs.

I'm still very confident that Gary will continue to work on getting better. I predict we'll start to see an improved running game. with Jacksonville giving up 92 ypg @ 3.5 ypc, Tennessee giving up 164 ypg @ 4.7 ypc, and NewYork giving up 113.8 ypg @ 4.1 ypc......... that along with continued practice, and proper learning of the ZBS.

Marcus
10-20-2006, 01:26 PM
This is for NATHANHALE:

...think about it...how are we going to ever learn how to win if we keep 'playing not to lose?'...once the team has everything in place and has exhausted everything it could possibly need to win, is there a 'switch' we turn on to go from 'playing to lose' to 'playing to win?'...nah,JMO, but I don't think so...

Don't you think the other team is playing a type of defense that would make it very hard to take shots down the field? But who cares? Throw it down there anyway. And be sure to scream the loudest when Carr get's it picked off . . . like I know you will.

...and we're not even talking about winning here...we were just talking about trying some different things to score a few points...sorry, I realize now I was asking too much...will just go back in my corner, now--is that at least OK?...or will that offend somebody??

...we can't run--other team takes away our verticle passing game--ok, I got it now---that's why we dink and dunk so much!...now, we just need to get our defense to do the same and we can see who can dink and dunk the best!!...you're so smart, like I knew you were!!!

Too, IMO, we'll see fewer posts that offer criticism of any kind about the performances we see on the field--there is a 'general' feeling that if you can't 'say' something 'good,' don't say anything at all...you can sense this from the posts that-don't just disagree with another poster-but offer a 'response' that is a 'little' more 'personal.'

Just to clarify, when I said "like I know you will", I didn't mean that as an attack on you personally, NATHANHALE, but rather an attack on Carr's critics in general.

To be honest, I wouldn't mind it if Carr threw it 50 or 60 times, and took a shot downfield on every series of downs. But I fully understand , that due to the opposing defense being ready for this , because of no running game, that I fully expect him to get picked off a lot, and sacked a lot because of it. But unlike all these Carr haters, I won't be waiting with baited breath to blame it all on him when it happens.

Erratic Assassin
10-20-2006, 08:19 PM
Dont lose faith in Kubiak based on his first 5 performances. Other new head coaches have inherited stronger franchises and are more prepared to start winning now.

That's not what Dan Reeves led us to believe. According to him we were better than a 2-14 team. He convinced McNair that the problem WASN'T THE TALENT, but was merely the coach. That's why Capers got ****canned before Casserly.

Apparently, it WAS THE TALENT, and therefore Casserly's fault after all. But anyone who questioned Casserly's decisions was immediately reminded that Casserly is an expert and he is not, even though anyone with 2 eyes could see that Casserly pissed away 5 offseasons.

I'm seeing the same pattern with anyone who questions Kubiak.

sleepwalker
10-22-2006, 12:52 AM
Good post!

TexansSeminole
10-22-2006, 01:13 AM
Its going to be fun to watch which players Kubiak and Smith bring in.

thunderkyss
10-22-2006, 08:58 AM
That's not what Dan Reeves led us to believe. According to him we were better than a 2-14 team. He convinced McNair that the problem WASN'T THE TALENT, but was merely the coach. That's why Capers got ****canned before Casserly.

Apparently, it WAS THE TALENT, and therefore Casserly's fault after all. But anyone who questioned Casserly's decisions was immediately reminded that Casserly is an expert and he is not, even though anyone with 2 eyes could see that Casserly pissed away 5 offseasons.

I'm seeing the same pattern with anyone who questions Kubiak.

the redskins are better than a 2-14 team, but look at how they started this season with a new Offensive Coordinator. I'm not saying that we should've gone to the playoffs last year, but we lost a lot of close games that could've gotten us there.

Tennessee, StLouis, & SF were also games we should've won, but with bad playcalling, and poor player attitudes, we got creamed, mainly due to the coaching.

Kubiak is cutting players who don't fit, Robaire(who is still playing) Gaffney(who is still playing) MilfordBrown(still playiing) VernandMorris(still playing) and Moran Norris(should be playing, I don't know if he is or isn't). As well as players who just aren't good football players(Buchannon who is still playing) Walker, Wade, Bradford....... etc.

but every football team has some kind of turnover regardless what their record was.

Right now, TJ, Babin & Dunta are not playing up to their draft spots, but our biggest problem on Defense has been linebacker play, which we should have expected going into a 3-4, and our secondary coverage, with the exception of CCBrown, who'd have thunk it?? Sanders is playing better than expected, Dunta is not, and Earl is always late.....

I don't know what McCleon is doing out there, but Casserly didn't bring him in.

We've had a very tough schedule to date, and should be 0-6. We got Blown out, because of our mistakes, not because we are getting beat by the other team. that should be expected with a new headcoach. Just look at the redskins, with their new OC.

N.O. is doing very well..... & so is StLouis with their new headcoaches. But they've got a lot of probowlers, most notably behind center.

Even though Bulger hasn't been to the probowl, he's played like a probowler in recent years.