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Goldeagle
10-18-2006, 04:15 PM
I dont know if it matters, but I was high on Spencer in the third round and he looked pretty decent and I wonder if our running game suffers with the loss of his big body at LT?

Also, am I wrong to think Drew Hodgen is a pretty good Center? I cant see everything but is Flannigan all that good?

HJam72
10-18-2006, 04:59 PM
I dont know if it matters, but I was high on him in the third round and he looked pretty decent and I wonder if our running game suffers with the loss of his big body at LT?

I assume you're talking about Spencer and, yeah, IMO the running game suffers without him there, but he's hurt for the season and Wand is gone, so there's not much we can do. Honestly, we weren't running well before he was hurt either, but I don't think that's his fault.

Also, am I wrong to think Drew Hodgen is a pretty good Center? I cant see everything but is Flannigan all that good?

I thought Hodgedon was good for a rookie, yeah. I thought Flanagan would be better though (for now) and I can't tell how he's doing, from what I've seen. My current opinion is that Sherman has screwed up the run blocking somehow and needs to go back to Kubiak's ZBS, which he SEEMS to me to have changed in some way, but not altogether dropped. I guess I'm probably more confused than ever about this team right now. If we didn't have Kubiak as head coach, I'd say drop the ZBS permanently right now. I've never been happy with it, but that's probably because it's never really been done right here, except maybe this past preseason.

kcwilson
10-18-2006, 05:11 PM
I assume you're talking about Spencer and, yeah, IMO the running game suffers without him there, but he's hurt for the season and Wand is gone, so there's not much we can do. Honestly, we weren't running well before he was hurt either, but I don't think that's his fault.



I thought Hodgedon was good for a rookie, yeah. I thought Flanagan would be better though (for now) and I can't tell how he's doing, from what I've seen. My current opinion is that Sherman has screwed up the run blocking somehow and needs to go back to Kubiak's ZBS, which he SEEMS to me to have changed in some way, but not altogether dropped. I guess I'm probably more confused than ever about this team right now. If we didn't have Kubiak as head coach, I'd say drop the ZBS permanently right now. I've never been happy with it, but that's probably because it's never really been done right here, except maybe this past preseason.

Understandably, we don't quite have the right bodies at this point to run the full ZBS that Kubiak likes, so we are probably running some iteration of it, and that iteration of it, likely won't yield the same results.

I think from a organizational standpoint, we have given the reigns to Kubiak and need to let him run it his way. I am not sure what the deal is with Sherman and his control, or if he even has any, but there seems to be a few different flavors of the offense, which leads to the analogy... Too many cooks in the kitchen.

I'd look for the off season to yield fitness program changes as well as different personnel, particularly in the reserve roles and at RG, perhaps. McKinney and Wiegert are gone IMO.

Goldeagle
10-18-2006, 05:37 PM
Yes, Im sorry, I edited my post. I meant Spencer

Goldeagle
10-18-2006, 05:41 PM
Were we running the ZBS last year? If Sherman thinks he has a Ahman Green, he has to think again. No one has speed but Taylor who is sitting on the practice squad.

I dont like Weigert at RT at all. On every pass play he sets up SO inside, ALMOST on Carr and the pocket looks so small. McKinney has been a joke IMO, I dont know how many times Ive seen him "looking" back as Carr has been sacked. Granted, this year pass protection has been better.

Weary sure looks smaller than last year. And Did Winston look somewhat decent for his 2-3 plays while he was in?

CowboysTexansFan
10-18-2006, 06:03 PM
I dont know if it matters, but I was high on Spencer in the third round and he looked pretty decent and I wonder if our running game suffers with the loss of his big body at LT?

Also, am I wrong to think Drew Hodgen is a pretty good Center? I cant see everything but is Flannigan all that good?

I've been completely unimpressed with Hodgdon this year. During the Redskins and Dolphins games, I thought he was in way over his head. I remember thinking several times how nice it would be to have Flanagan back. But after this last game against the Cowboys, I'm not sure how big of an improvement he really is.

HJam72
10-18-2006, 06:15 PM
Were we running the ZBS last year? If Sherman thinks he has a Ahman Green, he has to think again. No one has speed but Taylor who is sitting on the practice squad.

I dont like Weigert at RT at all. On every pass play he sets up SO inside, ALMOST on Carr and the pocket looks so small. McKinney has been a joke IMO, I dont know how many times Ive seen him "looking" back as Carr has been sacked. Granted, this year pass protection has been better.

Weary sure looks smaller than last year. And Did Winston look somewhat decent for his 2-3 plays while he was in?

Matter of opinion. :) Technically, we ran the ZBS the last 2 yrs., but I don't know how well it was being taught. I do know that cut blocks were not taught.

ON Weigart and McKinney, I think they're done next offseason. At least that's my opinion right now. Don't know about Winston so far, but I have faith in him for the long run.

TexansAllTheWayBaby
10-18-2006, 07:49 PM
I think we have a pretty descent offensive line this year, some young talent and leadership. Two good traits. We did loose a great player when Spencer went down, but I feel he can come back next year for us and be a positive factor.

Our line will only improve. We have again, a couple young players on it, a new blocking scheme, coaching staff, etc. Like other aspects on this team, we will need to be patient with it. It will have it's learning pains, but I think thid o-line can become pretty solid in the future. We certainly have alot of quality depth to work with.

Goldeagle
10-18-2006, 08:42 PM
LT: Spencer
LG: Weary
C: Flannigan/Hodgen
RG: Pitts
RT: Winston

Is that how you think things will shape out next year? Would it be to early to put Winston in (How long is he injured for I dont know)?

HJam72
10-18-2006, 08:58 PM
LT: Spencer
LG: Weary
C: Flannigan/Hodgen
RG: Pitts
RT: Winston

Is that how you think things will shape out next year? Would it be to early to put Winston in (How long is he injured for I dont know)?

I don't know how weary fits in, but I doubt that Pitts gets moved anywhere. I think he's at LG for life.

Goldeagle
10-18-2006, 09:14 PM
My bad

Scooter
10-19-2006, 03:23 AM
I dont know if it matters, but I was high on Spencer in the third round and he looked pretty decent and I wonder if our running game suffers with the loss of his big body at LT?

yes and no. spencer despite the obvious opinion because of his size, wasnt the best run blocker. he looked to me atleast to be more effective in the passing game and wand stood out in run blocking in the ZBS used in preseason. spencer's a major upgrade over salaam in every aspect though and his ability makes running to the left side a lot easier and opens up more legitimate inside cut-back lanes. we need him back, but his loss isnt the reason we cant run ... the majority of our run plays go to the right and IMO the reason we cant run is on the right side of the line.

Also, am I wrong to think Drew Hodgen is a pretty good Center? I cant see everything but is Flannigan all that good?

hodgdon IMO hasnt seen enough time to be fairly judged (and i've simply not paid enough attention to him to make an accurate assessment). i really like what flanagan's brought (as obvious by my sig). i'll be the first to say that flanagan's not a very good run blocker and he's hurting us in that area without a doubt. he's however doing a very good job as center as seen by our much improved ability to pick up the blitz when he's playing, and he's a much stronger pass blocker than either hodgdon or mckinney so i'm personally willing to make that trade-off.

touttail
10-19-2006, 09:37 AM
I think we have a pretty descent offensive line this year, some young talent and leadership. Two good traits. We did loose a great player when Spencer went down, but I feel he can come back next year for us and be a positive factor.

Our line will only improve. We have again, a couple young players on it, a new blocking scheme, coaching staff, etc. Like other aspects on this team, we will need to be patient with it. It will have it's learning pains, but I think thid o-line can become pretty solid in the future. We certainly have alot of quality depth to work with.


I want some of those drugs you are taking.

Must be hallucinating or seeing different games than I.

Bobby 119C

TPIMP
10-19-2006, 10:36 AM
I've been completely unimpressed with Hodgdon this year. During the Redskins and Dolphins games, I thought he was in way over his head. I remember thinking several times how nice it would be to have Flanagan back. But after this last game against the Cowboys, I'm not sure how big of an improvement he really is.

Excelllent observation. Hodgdon got killed while he was in and I was looking forward to getting Flanagan back as well. After watching the Dallas game a few times it was obvious Flanagan is not physical enough. He was driven into the backfield on numerous plays.

TPIMP
10-19-2006, 10:43 AM
[i]Ii really like what flanagan's brought (as obvious by my sig). i'll be the first to say that flanagan's not a very good run blocker and he's hurting us in that area without a doubt. he's however doing a very good job as center as seen by our much improved ability to pick up the blitz when he's playing, and he's a much stronger pass blocker than either hodgdon or mckinney so i'm personally willing to make that trade-off.

Pick up the Blitz? We got killed by the blitz against Philly and Flanagan didn't play against Washington and Miami. Dallas didn't blitz us at all. For anyone out there that thinks our pass blocking is improved...it's not. When teams blitz Philly, Wash, Miami they get sacks. When they don't blitz Indy, Dallas we fail to run and throw INT's. It starts and stops with line play.

real
10-19-2006, 03:07 PM
LT: Spencer
LG: Weary
C: Flannigan/Hodgen
RG: Pitts
RT: Winston

Is that how you think things will shape out next year? Would it be to early to put Winston in (How long is he injured for I dont know)?


I like that line except I'd switch Pitts and Weary....

Also If we are in position to draft Thomas or Gaither I say we go for it....

If we were to get a stud LT in the draft my line would be:

LT:Thomas/Gaither
LG:Pitts
C:Flannagan/Hogdon(We need a center)
RG:Weary
RT: Spencer

And I'd use Winston as my swing tackle...IMO, that's be a pretty solid line....

real
10-19-2006, 04:48 PM
bump