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View Full Version : Impact when Wong and Faggins return?


dat_boy_yec
10-17-2006, 08:16 PM
Of all the linebacker positions, is this the one that typically has the least impact? I look at our SLB, Orr and the guy hasn't had more than 3 tackles in any game so far. I remember this guy did real well in our defense last yr. So I gotta wonder is it because SLB's don't have that much impact or do we need an upgrade? I mean, maybe I'm off, but the guy has consistently not shown up so I'm just looking for an explanation.... if there is any.

dalemurphy
10-17-2006, 10:16 PM
Of all the linebacker positions, is this the one that typically has the least impact? I look at our SLB, Orr and the guy hasn't had more than 3 tackles in any game so far. I remember this guy did real well in our defense last yr. So I gotta wonder is it because SLB's don't have that much impact or do we need an upgrade? I mean, maybe I'm off, but the guy has consistently not shown up so I'm just looking for an explanation.... if there is any.


Orr is a DE. As an outside LB in a 3-4, he wasn't playing out of position. As a SLB in a 4-3, he's definitely out of position. His responsibilities include coverage against the TE, pursuing the ball, shedding blocks and impacting strong side runs, etc... He has no experience playing this position or any real LB position. I expect Wong to make a huge impact on this team with his return. He'll play much better and he'll also help Demeco Ryans with onfield adjustments.

Wolf
10-17-2006, 10:34 PM
How much of an impact do y'all feel they are actually going to make on this defense...along with Faggins..
last I heard they expect to practice, but week or two away(if I remember what Kubiak said on his radio show this week)

wrestler4life
10-17-2006, 10:40 PM
How much of an impact do y'all feel they are actually going to make on this defense...along with Faggins..
last I heard they expect to practice, but week or two away(if I remember what Kubiak said on his radio show this week)

Not much. But anyone is better than Greenwood. I don't think that I can take much more of his diving and missing at tackles 95% of linebackers would make in this league.

LORK 88
10-17-2006, 10:43 PM
Not much. But anyone is better than Greenwood. I don't think that I can take much more of his diving and missing at tackles 95% of linebackers would make in this league.
Odds are, Wong is going to the Strongside, and I think he'll be better suited than Orr. Also, Faggins will be an upgrade. How big of an upgrade they'll be has yet to be determined, but they'll help.

samomin
10-17-2006, 10:45 PM
Pre-Injury Faggins and Wong would be a big upgrade. How the post-injury Faggins and Wong perform, will be determined when they play. It will be hard to predict that for the first few games they play.

Reddevil63
10-17-2006, 10:46 PM
If anything, Wong brings a stronger veteran presence on the field to take charge when things start imploding

infantrycak
10-17-2006, 10:58 PM
Orr is no more an NFL DE than Wong--which is not at all even though both played there in college. Wong just makes a smarter, better overall NFL LB than Orr. The coaches have always commented on Wong's adaptability and smart play. He may not be the most physically gifted but he should be a big upgrade at SLB.

Scooter
10-17-2006, 11:02 PM
i think wong will make a big impact if he's able to play. he's so much more football savvy than orr and isnt nearly as likely to be caught out of position or overshoot a play (orr & peek i like a lot more as OLB's in a 3-4). besides that he's a tenured texan and a strong veteran presence on the defense that i'm certain will increase the comfort level of the back 7. wong's not going to be a great linebacker coming off an injury, he's going to be a smarter linebacker and a better tackler than the guy he's replacing while ryans still makes most of the plays. faggins needs to increase the talent level on the DB's. while that's not a very difficult task, he never impressed me, so time will tell on that one.

infantrycak
10-17-2006, 11:14 PM
faggins needs to increase the talent level on the DB's.

Faggins will get burned--possibly more than Sanders BUT he will not drop 4+ INT opportunities. Those are far more important than getting burned a few times unless it is for TD's. In addition to D created opportunities, this team needs sparks like that.

JDizzle
10-17-2006, 11:20 PM
Sparks like this ....

http://images.nfl.com/photos/img7845338.jpg

Battle Red Day against J-Ville. Ahem.

texan279
10-17-2006, 11:20 PM
I might be wrong but doesn't Wong play MLB in the 4-3? No way he takes that spot from DeMeco. So does he take the LOLB spot from Orr or what?

infantrycak
10-17-2006, 11:25 PM
I might be wrong but doesn't Wong play MLB in the 4-3? No way he takes that spot from DeMeco. So does he take the LOLB spot from Orr or what?

Yup--Orr becomes situational SLB at best. Probably split time the first couple games and become more rarely seen as Wong gets back up to speed. Wong has played OLB and ILB in both 4-3 and 3-4 alignments in the NFL. 1st got starts as a Vike at SLB then went to MLB. Came to Houston and went SLB, then WLB, then MLB.

texan279
10-17-2006, 11:26 PM
Yup--Orr becomes situational SLB at best. Probably split time the first couple games and become more rarely seen as Wong gets back up to speed. Wong has played OLB and ILB in both 4-3 and 3-4 alignments in the NFL. 1st got starts as a Vike at SLB then went to MLB. Came to Houston and went SLB, then WLB, then MLB.

OK, thanks for the info cak.

LORK 88
10-17-2006, 11:26 PM
Sparks like this ....

http://images.nfl.com/photos/img7845338.jpg

Battle Red Day against J-Ville. Ahem.
The 1st and only Texans game Ive ever been to. Good choice on my part, that game was nothing short of amazing!!

Scooter
10-18-2006, 01:10 AM
I might be wrong but doesn't Wong play MLB in the 4-3? No way he takes that spot from DeMeco. So does he take the LOLB spot from Orr or what?

wong played OLB, on both sides, in our 3-4 scheme and i think he'll be playing sam. i honestly forget which side he said he felt most comfortable on (i'm sure vinny remembers), but he'll deffinately be playing an OLB. he'll be taking orr's spot either way.

Reddevil63
10-18-2006, 01:24 AM
Sparks like this ....

http://images.nfl.com/photos/img7845338.jpg

Battle Red Day against J-Ville. Ahem.

Im placing that day as the peak of this franchise so far, its all been downhill since that moment

NJTexanFan
10-18-2006, 07:44 AM
I can't believe i hear people saying Wong taking Orr spot, i much rather him take Greenwood spot i've seen people bashing him but actually watching a game, HE CAN'T TACKLE FOR NOTHING! I was hoping Wong to come back and take his spot the only linebacker i know that dives at players legs and misses way to often

gtexan02
10-18-2006, 08:38 AM
Greenwood has been doing a much better job than Orr so far, imo. Greenwood at least has the ability to make plays. Maybe Orr is a better tackler, but he takes himself out of so many play by making stupid decisions that he is never around to make the tackle in the first place.

nunusguy
10-18-2006, 09:14 AM
In particular, getting Wong back could be very helpful. Who knows what kind
of shape he'll be in ?Not just his general physical condidtioning but his football
shape. After all, he hasn't had any contact for a whole year.
But he's recognized as a popular guy amoung the players and he's a veteran with many years of NFL experience. And he's been a competant LB who can play the strongside, one of many positions where we desparately need help at.

HOU-TEX
10-18-2006, 09:48 AM
Yup--Orr becomes situational SLB at best. Probably split time the first couple games and become more rarely seen as Wong gets back up to speed. Wong has played OLB and ILB in both 4-3 and 3-4 alignments in the NFL. 1st got starts as a Vike at SLB then went to MLB. Came to Houston and went SLB, then WLB, then MLB.

Do you think Sanders will move to C.Cs position when Faggins becomes full speed? Considering he's been a decent DB so far, wouldn't it be beneficial to keep him on the field?

infantrycak
10-18-2006, 10:15 AM
Do you think Sanders will move to C.Cs position when Faggins becomes full speed? Considering he's been a decent DB so far, wouldn't it be beneficial to keep him on the field?

I doubt it--not even sure Faggins will get the starting nod over Sanders for several weeks while getting back up to speed. Plus in many of the games they are running nickle 50%+ of the time.

jerek
10-18-2006, 10:18 AM
I never thought I'd see the day when I actually desperately wanted Faggins back in our lineup. He's lacking athletically for a DB but he at least has hands and better technique than Sanders.

HOU-TEX
10-18-2006, 10:22 AM
I doubt it--not even sure Faggins will get the starting nod over Sanders for several weeks while getting back up to speed. Plus in many of the games they are running nickle 50%+ of the time.

So who would our nickleback be now? Faggins? At least untill he's adjusted to the speed again.

threetoedpete
10-18-2006, 10:34 AM
With Payne out, their return will have little or no impact. Why Tuna didn't blow up our d-line, I just don't know. He had a reason though. I hope he puts it in his next book. I'm figuring that he was saving them for New York. No one has thrown away the Washington tape. It's just a matter of time. On the positive side, with our defensive front seven being brutalized, it will give the o-line less time to get stomped. Last time I saw something that stuffed was at thanksgiving and we ate it. I have every confidence that this group of defensive players will make the record books and catch the '81 colts. The worst defensive unit in the modern era.

dalemurphy
10-18-2006, 02:14 PM
So who would our nickleback be now? Faggins? At least untill he's adjusted to the speed again.

Actually, Dunta may move to the slot in nickel. That's what he's accustomed to doing. Since he is the most physically assertive and has quickness to match of in the slot and the playmaking ability to blitz, it makes some sense to get him closer to the action.

Texas Lobo
10-18-2006, 02:31 PM
I'm glad to hear Wong is back and hopfully he will get back to speed pretty quickly. Along with Demeco maybe they can spark some improvement in out D.

mefool3030
10-18-2006, 02:48 PM
Wong looks a lot like King Kong...

GP
10-18-2006, 03:10 PM
I agree with infrantrycak.

Here's what I think:

What we need is fast, smart LBs: Guys like Demeco who seem to know which hole to hit and which angle to take when pursuing a runner/receiver. Demeco isn't some hulking giant out there...he's just instinctual and you can't 'coach" that. It's Urlacher. It's Merriman. It's talent.

Greenwood doesn't have that talent/instinct that I think Wong and Demeco have.

For whatever it's worth, think about this: It IS possible for us to now have TWO Demeco's on the field. Imagine it: Two guys (Wong and Demeco) who are shutting stuff down over the middle and on the edges. And with Demeco's bursts up the gut on blitzes...I can't help but think it reminds me of what Wong was capable of two years ago when he was in his natural playing position and not all out of whack like Fangio had him last season (before the injury).

Man, I am getting excited just thinking about the thought of having those two guys out there. If Wong is healthy, we might have one of the top LB tandems in the league. And that instantly helps out the other LB and the secondary, too.

if you thought Demeco was a beast before now, what can happen if Wong is out there with him?

This is what I'm watching the game for. I want to see the overall impact our defense can/will have with Wong and Demeco out there. I want to see if it's enough to make the other defensive players better, which I don;t think is too much of stretch since we should have Faggins back in the secondary this weekend.

Teams like us and teams like the Cardinals just need to get over the obstacle of the "Oh no, here we go again" attitude that causes young, improving teams to buckle under the pressure. The pressure is the same for us as it is for the Cowboys, and for other teams we lose to, but the difference is in how quickly the team can play like there's no tomorrow even while you know you might lose the game. The Cowboys didn't get depressed when they went into the locker room at the half. They just said "To heck with it" and played like they knew they could win.

It takes a spark to light a fire. And I think we've all been seeing a failure "to spark" the fire with the recent moves by Kubiak (Dayne, Gado, etc.) and what's funny is that perhaps Wong and Faggins are the spark. Maybe THAT'S what we've needed. Maybe those two guys are enough to ignite our whole team.

One last tidbit: Call me evil, but I wasn't necessarily crying whe Payne got hurt. There is something so curious about all those Jags players we acquired when we began this team. I honestly think it was a friggin curse. Kinda; like signing a contract with the devil: We took a lot of Jags players and what have we got for it? Gary Walker was a bust. Payne gets hurt, and when he's not injured he's getting flagged for holding...HOLDING!!!!!!!!!!!! And then there's Boselli. Let's not even go there, OK? Wasn't Weigert also a Jag when we acquired him? WHo else was? Lots of underperforming guys, that's who.

Which leads me to my theory: We will NOT improve our team until the former Jags players are off this team. Period. Call me a kook, I could care. So many of our "key" and "foundational" defensive and offensive players (Boselli supposedly being the big anchor for our first round draft pick Carr) were JAGS.

BigDTexansFan
10-18-2006, 10:28 PM
How much of an impact do y'all feel they are actually going to make on this defense...along with Faggins..
last I heard they expect to practice, but week or two away(if I remember what Kubiak said on his radio show this week)

Faggins will shore up secondary, Wong will help on D-line getting pressure..we still need PEEK and Mathis:redtowel:

edo783
10-18-2006, 10:41 PM
Probably will be minimal for a game or two. Probably play in spots for 2 games to get their legs back before giving them a full go. Hope they make a play or two in the spot duty though.

ridn4_8
10-18-2006, 11:28 PM
I agree with infrantrycak.

Here's what I think:

What we need is fast, smart LBs: Guys like Demeco who seem to know which hole to hit and which angle to take when pursuing a runner/receiver. Demeco isn't some hulking giant out there...he's just instinctual and you can't 'coach" that. It's Urlacher. It's Merriman. It's talent.

Greenwood doesn't have that talent/instinct that I think Wong and Demeco have.

For whatever it's worth, think about this: It IS possible for us to now have TWO Demeco's on the field. Imagine it: Two guys (Wong and Demeco) who are shutting stuff down over the middle and on the edges. And with Demeco's bursts up the gut on blitzes...I can't help but think it reminds me of what Wong was capable of two years ago when he was in his natural playing position and not all out of whack like Fangio had him last season (before the injury).

Man, I am getting excited just thinking about the thought of having those two guys out there. If Wong is healthy, we might have one of the top LB tandems in the league. And that instantly helps out the other LB and the secondary, too.

if you thought Demeco was a beast before now, what can happen if Wong is out there with him?

This is what I'm watching the game for. I want to see the overall impact our defense can/will have with Wong and Demeco out there. I want to see if it's enough to make the other defensive players better, which I don;t think is too much of stretch since we should have Faggins back in the secondary this weekend.

Teams like us and teams like the Cardinals just need to get over the obstacle of the "Oh no, here we go again" attitude that causes young, improving teams to buckle under the pressure. The pressure is the same for us as it is for the Cowboys, and for other teams we lose to, but the difference is in how quickly the team can play like there's no tomorrow even while you know you might lose the game. The Cowboys didn't get depressed when they went into the locker room at the half. They just said "To heck with it" and played like they knew they could win.

It takes a spark to light a fire. And I think we've all been seeing a failure "to spark" the fire with the recent moves by Kubiak (Dayne, Gado, etc.) and what's funny is that perhaps Wong and Faggins are the spark. Maybe THAT'S what we've needed. Maybe those two guys are enough to ignite our whole team.

One last tidbit: Call me evil, but I wasn't necessarily crying whe Payne got hurt. There is something so curious about all those Jags players we acquired when we began this team. I honestly think it was a friggin curse. Kinda; like signing a contract with the devil: We took a lot of Jags players and what have we got for it? Gary Walker was a bust. Payne gets hurt, and when he's not injured he's getting flagged for holding...HOLDING!!!!!!!!!!!! And then there's Boselli. Let's not even go there, OK? Wasn't Weigert also a Jag when we acquired him? WHo else was? Lots of underperforming guys, that's who.

Which leads me to my theory: We will NOT improve our team until the former Jags players are off this team. Period. Call me a kook, I could care. So many of our "key" and "foundational" defensive and offensive players (Boselli supposedly being the big anchor for our first round draft pick Carr) were JAGS.

Amen. I saw a statement someone made in another post about Mario being the "anchor" for the defense. Well, there is no way this can happen, even if it's the intent of the coaching staff, without some sort of supporting cast behind him. If the opposing offensive guards now have to worry about what the linebackers are gonna do, this most likely will free Williams up to start doing the things he was drafted to do.....

TEXANS84
10-19-2006, 07:47 AM
SR610 said last night that Orr hurt his back (?) and is questionable for the Jax game. Looks like Wong may make the start at OLB.

HOU-TEX
10-19-2006, 09:34 AM
SR610 said last night that Orr hurt his back (?) and is questionable for the Jax game. Looks like Wong may make the start at OLB.

You're correct according to Kubiak. Although he said it was his hip. I guess we'll know more later.

(on what happened to LB Shantee Orr at practice) ďI really donít know what exactly happened to him, something to his hip. Iíll have to talk to (head athletic trainer) Kevin (Bastin). Iím sorry, I donít have that information.Ē

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/detail.php?PRKey=3002&section=N%20Latest%20News

edo783
10-19-2006, 10:52 AM
SR610 said last night that Orr hurt his back (?) and is questionable for the Jax game. Looks like Wong may make the start at OLB.

While I think Wong is the better OLB of the two, this may not be a good thing. Usually takes a game or two to get their legs back in order to play a full game and speed. The 4th quarter could be a tough one for Wong.

Mr teX
10-20-2006, 09:42 AM
I doubt it--not even sure Faggins will get the starting nod over Sanders for several weeks while getting back up to speed. Plus in many of the games they are running nickle 50%+ of the time.

I like Sanders, I don't think he has played all that bad considering where he came from. I feel Kubes should leave him there & Faggins can be the slot guy.................. McCleon just needs to go somewhere. As for CC.....He just needs to leave cause he is terrible period.

Mr teX
10-20-2006, 09:43 AM
While I think Wong is the better OLB of the two, this may not be a good thing. Usually takes a game or two to get their legs back in order to play a full game and speed. The 4th quarter could be a tough one for Wong.

No tougher than it has been on our defense period.