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JDTexan
09-26-2004, 04:46 PM
If we want to get any pressure on the quarterback, we need to start Peek. You saw what he did towards the end of the game (make plays!) and that's what the defense needs right now.

Babin is just not good enough to start right now. He doesn't know how to rush the passer in the NFL at this point. Maybe he'll learn in the future, but in the interim, we need a playmacker now.

Peek should be the starter from this point on. :thumbup

Trogdor014
09-26-2004, 04:53 PM
You do realize that we didn't blitz as much when Babin was in the game, right? Peek played good and he had 2 sacks, but no one even blocked him when he was blitzing.

I could have made his first sack. The Olinemen responsible for blocking him turned inside and let him go. The second sack we had 3 guys in front of Green. I still think Peek plays too wrecklessly at times, but if it fires up our D then I'm all for starting him. :twocents:

BWPaint
09-26-2004, 04:57 PM
It is clear that Babin's speed is side to side....his rush has not been all that good in the first 3 games, although much has been said how good he is...average at best, but he is young.

Time for him to sit and learn, we need as much speed as possible, especially with the D-Line getting man-handled every week.

Next draft should be all O-Line and D-Line....it all starts in the trenches.

Marcus
09-26-2004, 04:58 PM
I believe the reason why Peek isn't starting already is NOT because of ablity to put pressure on the QB. His run defense and pass coverage are what's suspect.

Keldar
09-26-2004, 04:59 PM
I still think Peek plays too wrecklessly at times, but if it fires up our D then I'm all for starting him. :twocents:

You shmacked the Nail on the Head. This mediocre, coma inducing defense needs a Peek at playing with intensity.

JDTexan
09-26-2004, 04:59 PM
I agree with you trogdor, those sacks were easy, but Peek is quicker than Babin and I'll take Peek's "wrecklesness" if it sparks the defense.

He's in the right place at the right time. I'll take that all day.

Fiddy
09-26-2004, 05:05 PM
When Babin was in the Texans only brought 3 and dropped 8 into coverage. Peek came in at the end of the game when we knew they were passing and we needed pressure and get the ball back...

pittbull
09-26-2004, 05:21 PM
Peek brings what this defense needs, fire! Although his pass coverage and rush defense may be suspect at times, this guy has the havoc that causes matchup problems for slow tackles. This team took on a whole new look when he was in the game and the defense exploded back in the game with big plays! PEEK A BOO, I SEE YOU!!! Way to go Peek!

Nawzer
09-26-2004, 05:28 PM
Babin at times today got dominated on pass plays and rushing the qb. I saw him get thrown to the ground and Tony Gonzalez brushed him off a couple of times. Peek made the plays when he was given the opportunity and that's what it comes down to. Babin will improve and he went up against the best o-line in the league, but he'll be ok. Peek at times looks like he's about to loose it, but his pass rushing skills right now are what we need.

Tulip
09-26-2004, 05:29 PM
I love that about Peek as well - that fire, that thirst for blood. I love seeing a player gunning the backfield. And at this point, I'd rather see someone overpursue than be too cautious.

ArlingtonTexan
09-26-2004, 05:29 PM
Peek and Babin are to different type of players. Babin is a high motor effort with mutliple moves guy. Peek is a speed rusher. Wong is probably the odd man out over time. Honestly, I have thought the Peek would become situational for Wong as a pass rusher at sometime this year. Babin and wong are more similiar with Babin probably having more long term potential.

nunusguy
09-26-2004, 05:39 PM
I just don't know if Babin has the pure burst to be a superior edge rusher, but
when and if he finally makes the adjustment to playing from the upright, wonder
if he would be more suited to play inside LB ?

ArlingtonTexan
09-26-2004, 06:04 PM
Peek does make me notice how much the pure speed element is missing from the texans defense and on that alone he should see a lot more time.

phan1
09-26-2004, 06:05 PM
Well, I'm not a person who likes to change things too much, but when you find something that works for you, you've got to make changes. I'm not for Peek totally taking Babin's place, but on 3rd downs and passing situations, let's put Peek in there!

Keldar
09-26-2004, 06:11 PM
I love that about Peek as well - that fire, that thirst for blood. I love seeing a player gunning the backfield. And at this point, I'd rather see someone overpursue than be too cautious.

I agree, Tulip..........and you thought that would never happen between us. :love:

Porky
09-26-2004, 06:26 PM
Apparently, none of the Peek for President fan club watched the preseason game in Pittsburgh. If you had, you would know why there is no way in haides that man is starting over Babin. He can't play the run. End of story. If you can't contain on the outside, you can't play on any running down at all. Add to that the fact that he isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer, and it's easy to see why he hasn't played much. Having said that, he has a great burst to the QB, and on pure passing downs, he needs to be in there. But starting? Come on... eek:

TexansFight
09-26-2004, 06:42 PM
I am glad that Peek finally saw the field towards the end of the game. He is one of the few pure pass rushers on the field. Babin might be better over all in terms of coverage and pass rushing but Peek can get after it put the opposing offense back on their heels. I would like to see Peek AND Babin in at the same time. Wong has been a great disappointment in my mind. He hasn't brought the pressure as on OLB that we thought he would.

Panther5407
09-26-2004, 08:04 PM
Wasn't Peek an end in college? I'd kinda like to see him there. I don't know how and I know how some say he is to small in size but just try to tell him that.

TexanExile
09-26-2004, 08:13 PM
I thought Wong did a pretty good job today.

Babin's not there yet. Neither is D-Rob, and God knows Seth Wand's still playing in slow motion. We just have to stick with them for a while and let them get some more NFL experience.

Now, that being said, Peek should be on the field more often. This defense does seem to get a little passive sometimes, and he fires them up. He is by no means a starter, but cut the man loose a few times!

jhawktx
09-26-2004, 08:17 PM
Peek is a potential monster at OLB. If he can get and keep his head on straight he has great upside. They've already committed to Babin though. Peek will have to be head and shoulders better to take over his spot.

Sco-tai
09-26-2004, 08:30 PM
Someone on here predicted that the OLB's by the end of 2004 would be PEEK & BABIN. I think that is EXACTLY what it should be. Wong has been improved compared to previous seasons. But that's not saying a whole lot.

Panther5407
09-26-2004, 08:45 PM
Someone on here predicted that the OLB's by the end of 2004 would be PEEK & BABIN. I think that is EXACTLY what it should be. Wong has been improved compared to previous seasons. But that's not saying a whole lot.

Count me as one of them. By the end of the year, peek, wong, sharper and babin at linebackers.

rittenhouserobz
09-26-2004, 09:01 PM
I can't believe I am reading this stuff when Babin had a couple of great open field tackles on LT in week 1.

Panther5407
09-26-2004, 09:07 PM
Don't get me wrong, Babin is awesome. I'm just not to fond of foreman and really fond of Babs and Peek. Babin is gonna be great just he young and its only his third NFL game.

CyberTexan
09-27-2004, 01:27 AM
I cant believe you guys , havent you seen the way Foreman has been playing this year ? hes been all over the field lately hes playing aalot better than last year , I was all for replacing him with Peek at the begginig of the season but hes made me change my mind the way hes been playing . Peek should be out there and I think hes awsome but he also gets injured alot , I agree with the earlier post use him spareingly like in 3rd and long situations by taking out wong or Babin .

jacquescas
09-27-2004, 01:55 AM
Look there is no harm in having 5 quality linebackers. Peek can be in there for either Babin or Wong on obvious passing downs.

If Peek can get his run defense and pass protection down he could be a really good player. I see him as where Clark Haggans was a couple of years ago when he got 6.5 sacks. It wasn't until this season that he moved into a full time role.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
09-27-2004, 02:05 AM
no way in hell can Peek play DE in the 3-4.

jacquescas
09-27-2004, 02:29 AM
Peek will not play DE first of all, no way no how. Maybe if he played for a team that used a 4-3 defense he might be able to but not with the Texans.

Peek is a monster at getting to the quarterback. He will be our situational pass rusher. Teams will know we are blitzing, but with his speed it wont really mattered. He will probably finish with around 8 or 9 sacks on the season. but very few tackles

edo783
09-27-2004, 11:47 AM
I think Jacquescas has it about right. Might move Wong to the middle on those plays and then we could have a middle rusher if we wanted to. In the 34 if you don't get pressure on the QB you are dead in the water, as we have seen. Need to get Peek involved, but not as a starter.

SESupergenius
09-27-2004, 04:13 PM
The blitz packages have been very mediocre and we just have not been agressive in that area. We are not fooling anyone. It wasn't until late that we sent more people and Green's time was diminished. Peek has to be able to cover as well as blitz hard because if Peek blitzed all the time then that doesn't do much for our scheme and it could be too easy for offensive coordinators to pick up on that. Peek will thrive late this year and blossom next year. Babin is solid but he is still a rookie and good enough to beat out Peek.

HJam72
09-27-2004, 05:26 PM
Oh, shoot. Let's just go to a 2-5 defense. :rolleyes:

JDizzle
09-28-2004, 01:38 PM
Peek was untouched both times through the line, so it's not like he made some slick move on the RT to get through. They were both blitz packages. Besides, Babin is starting this sunday against Oakland. (http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/2818635)

TexansTrueFan
09-28-2004, 01:51 PM
some complain that peek is not good on the run but when he is in there he brings a lot more intensity to our defence like Ray Lewis does to the Ravens. I think we need to give him a chance to start and see how consistent he can be.

JDizzle
09-28-2004, 02:21 PM
some complain that peek is not good on the run but when he is in there he brings a lot more intensity to our defence like Ray Lewis does to the Ravens. I think we need to give him a chance to start and see how consistent he can be.

I don't think that will happen right now. The Texans have too much invested in Babin to bench him on the 4th game of the season. Besides, the only way he's going to get better is by playing games and making mistakes.

El Tejano
09-28-2004, 03:33 PM
some complain that peek is not good on the run but when he is in there he brings a lot more intensity to our defence like Ray Lewis does to the Ravens. I think we need to give him a chance to start and see how consistent he can be.
People complain that Peek isn't good against the run but we also haven't been good against the run with him on the bench. I say don't give him the start but start bringing him in more and moving him around from left to right when you sub with him. Keeps our starters fresh, and doesn't allow the offense to know whether he is blitzing or not. :soapbox:

Oh yeah, by the way. Foreman has been playing alot better and I don't think anybody noticed because of Peek's plays but Foreman made a statement tackle late in the game that I believed sparked this defense late and made me realize, we just may see our real defense back now. It was on KCs last drive. I don't know if it was second or third down but he came flying by to finish a tackle and it was a pretty hard hit. When he got up, he didn't help the other guy up but gave him this nasty look. It was a look I had seen before. I believe it was the look he had when we played Pittsburgh our first year, when he was staring down the offense from our defensive huddle. I hope I am right. I would love to see our defense take over a game with the offense we have. :boxing:

edo783
09-28-2004, 03:56 PM
You are correct. Foreman has been playing the best ball I have seen him play. Might be motivated by the thought of going to second team in favor of Wong in the middle. Whatever the reason, I hope it continues. One thing about a defense, they feed off of each others success and level of play. Need the intensity to turn up and I think they will be "OK" as long as we attack, rather than react to what the offense is doing.

El Tejano
09-28-2004, 03:58 PM
Maybe they will start to unleash our defense a little more now. I get the impression the defense has been hiding some things.

Txnpride
09-29-2004, 10:52 AM
Does anyone else on the forum think Peek should get the start sunday?I know we have alot vested in Babin,but Peek seems to be a step or two faster then Babin..Its all about QB pressure,and I think we have a better shot with Peek out there.Oakland has a massive line....speed kills :twocents: If a thread of this nature has already been started,I apologize

dalemurphy
09-29-2004, 11:05 AM
Does anyone else on the forum think Peek should get the start sunday?I know we have alot vested in Babin,but Peek seems to be a step or two faster then Babin..Its all about QB pressure,and I think we have a better shot with Peek out there.Oakland has a massive line....speed kills :twocents: If a thread of this nature has already been started,I apologize

It's not all about QB pressure. The reason he hasn't been out there much to this point is because every team in the league knows that any misdirection to his side means a free ride down the sideline. If he becomes a little more disciplined, then I think we will and should see him more on passing downs- though I think Babin has looked pretty good with the exception of the KC game. And, in fairness, they are the best OL in football. Let's not forget, Peek was left unblocked on his sack. It looked to me like KC expected him to get sucked in on the run action and when he didn't, he was free to tee off on TGreen.

keyfro
09-29-2004, 11:26 AM
all i'm gonna say is this...you put performance before potential

El Tejano
09-29-2004, 12:49 PM
all i'm gonna say is this...you put performance before potential
Exactly!

I also want to add that no matter who starts, our D better come to play and make statements all day because we are going to need them to win this game.

Here's hoping for win #2 in a row. :headbang:

SBTexans08
09-29-2004, 01:30 PM
With the way a lot of you are talking....because of Peeks two plays at the closing of the game and considering him to take over Babin's, Wong's or Foreman's position.........hell, I can't wait to see what you guys say if Banks goes in gets an 85% completions and 2 TDs with about 275 yrds. I can see it now, "Carr doesn't have the rhythm Banks has....Banks has far more experience....they should start Banks and let Carr learn another year on the sidelines!" :crazy:

geofb
09-29-2004, 02:18 PM
Let's not forget, Peek was left unblocked on his sack. .

I'll bet Babin has seen a few cases of being left unblocked in 3 games as well. How many sacks does he have? A sack is a sack. And with our defense, they are as precious as gold. I don't care how we get them as long as we start getting more or them.

Errant Hothy
09-29-2004, 02:27 PM
Is this over-reaction Wensday or something? The sack is not the end-all stat for a defensive player, espically on OLb (in any system).

I'll take Babin's 3 to 4 solo tackles of a RB, stopping a big gain, and a couple of QB hurries over Peek's 2 sacks and getting burned on any counter or cut back run. A sack has as much to do withthe defensive alignment and play calling as player skill. Plus Peek gets to play on teh weak side, where as Babin is routinly going up against the opposing teams left tackle, ie their best O-line men.

dmt217
09-29-2004, 02:37 PM
Is this over-reaction Wensday or something? The sack is not the end-all stat for a defensive player, espically on OLb (in any system).

I'll take Babin's 3 to 4 solo tackles of a RB, stopping a big gain, and a couple of QB hurries over Peek's 2 sacks and getting burned on any counter or cut back run. A sack has as much to do withthe defensive alignment and play calling as player skill. Plus Peek gets to play on teh weak side, where as Babin is routinly going up against the opposing teams left tackle, ie their best O-line men.

FYI, Babin normally lines up against a RT, while Wong goes up against the LT. The strong side could be on the left or right depending on where the TE lines up.

Jwwillis
09-29-2004, 02:38 PM
Does anyone else on the forum think Peek should get the start sunday?I know we have alot vested in Babin,but Peek seems to be a step or two faster then Babin..Its all about QB pressure,and I think we have a better shot with Peek out there.Oakland has a massive line....speed kills :twocents: If a thread of this nature has already been started,I apologize


Not me. Peeks had 2 gimmi sacks and now everyone thinks he should start. Fortunately Capers and Co. look at the big picture.

Errant Hothy
09-29-2004, 02:40 PM
FYI, Babin normally lines up against a RT, while Wong goes up against the LT. The strong side could be on the left or right depending on where the TE lines up.

My bad, your right. Dosn't really change how I feel though.

Babin is just the more complete and better football player right now.

NoBullTexan
09-29-2004, 03:42 PM
IMO, the problem Babbin is having right now is information overload. This is usual for a rookie in his third game. He will get it all down in another game or so, and then we can start to have valid comparisons. For my money he is, and should be, the starter. Yes, they need to figure a way to get Peek in on obvious passing downs because of his intense rush, but as has been stated above, after two years in the system, he still doesn't have his reads down, on first and second down. :twocents:

kbourda
09-30-2004, 12:01 AM
May I ask what in the heck a "gimme sack" is? The Texans are #25 in the NFL against the run on D. So Peek does not support the run well (so some of you say). So what in the statistics bear that Babin and Wong are doing any better in containment?

Jwwillis
09-30-2004, 12:39 AM
May I ask what in the heck a "gimme sack" is? The Texans are #25 in the NFL against the run on D. So Peek does not support the run well (so some of you say). So what in the statistics bear that Babin and Wong are doing any better in containment?

This is a sack in which the O-Lineman does not block the rusher thus allowing a free shot at the QB. This happens when a LB is put in during passing situations and line up in blitz packages. I did not say anything about the Texans defense being ranked high in NFL sacks idonno:

infantrycak
09-30-2004, 09:30 AM
So what in the statistics bear that Babin and Wong are doing any better in containment?

You can't see containment in the stats. All you see is tackles and not where they are made. For example look back at the 2002 season. Foreman had more tackles than Sharper, but that didn't reflect that Sharper was the better ILB because he was attacking the line of scrimmage and making his tackles closer while Foreman was making his 3-5 yds down field. Peek definitely is still working on containment.

El Tejano
09-30-2004, 12:39 PM
8 TDs in 79 pass attempts. Sounds like the defense is still working on alot more than containment.

Mistril48
09-30-2004, 08:22 PM
May I ask what in the heck a "gimme sack" is?...
Another example is the play where Walker got a half a sack. It was the last play of the first half and Green had to wait and wait for the receivers to run into the endzone. The Texans only had three on the D-line and then only rushed the outside rushers (Wong and Babin). Eventually, Green was flushed out by the two rushers and as he came up to the line of scrimmage, Walker,who had merely waited there, jumped out around the single blocker and feed him back to Wong. An easy stat for Wong and Walker.

It reminds me of the QB who throws up a Hail Mary and there is an INT. All interceptions aren't the same and all sacks aren't the same.

Grid
09-30-2004, 08:25 PM
maybe we should try running a 3-5 :)

EDIT: bah.. someone already made that joke. Honestly though.. considering how our defense has been playing.. if it doesnt start to improve.. maybe we SHOULD try some off the wall stuff. Or at the very least should change up the personel and see how Peek does out there. I know its a lot more interesting to watch when it looks like we are at least throwing different stuff out there and trying to find something that works.

aj.
09-30-2004, 09:00 PM
May I ask what in the heck a "gimme sack" is? Strahan v. Favre.

nunusguy
10-02-2004, 02:19 PM
May I ask what in the heck a "gimme sack" is?
anything like a "gimme putt" ?

Tedc
10-02-2004, 03:04 PM
Gimme a sack anytime at the end of a game to put the game away!

Go PEEK!

Mischief
10-02-2004, 03:14 PM
I agree with Peek being in there, he has made quite a difference.

But for god's sake, do not overwork Sharper... he's a good solid player, gets the job done, he's in around almost every tackle (led NFL last year w/164 season tackles). I feel like he is overlooked too often. The last thing we need right now are weak linebackers, since the DL is hurting once again already.

BTW, this is hubby posting. :cool:

Aussie
10-03-2004, 09:40 AM
i actuallylike what peek can do comin off the sideline but i spose it would be interesting to see what a fulltime spot in the LB corps for him would bring but i still think startin babin is the way to go.

jacquescas
10-03-2004, 09:45 AM
Its easy, you start Babin, you can bring in Peek for some obvious passing downs, he gets around 15-20 plays in the game, if he does well with it he can get more time or around that each game.