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Cjeremy635
10-17-2006, 08:58 AM
or lack there of! I rewatched the first series of the game last night (couldn't force myself to go through the whole thing yet) and there were holes opened up on every running play. I was screaming at the linemen while watching the game Sunday, but I stand corrected. Simple steps to the left or right would have given us 5 to 10 yard runs repeatedly if the running backs had better vision/speed. It was very aggrevating to watch the plays and look for holes exclusively. The goal line debacle was frustrating as well. Our back could have followed the full back to the left and went in untouched. The whole left side of the line was on the ground and he could have waltzed right in. :francis:

real
10-17-2006, 09:14 AM
or lack there of! I rewatched the first series of the game last night (couldn't force myself to go through the whole thing yet) and there were holes opened up on every running play. I was screaming at the linemen while watching the game Sunday, but I stand corrected. Simple steps to the left or right would have given us 5 to 10 yard runs repeatedly if the running backs had better vision/speed. It was very aggrevating to watch the plays and look for holes exclusively. The goal line debacle was frustrating as well. Our back could have followed the full back to the left and went in untouched. The whole left side of the line was on the ground and he could have waltzed right in. :francis:

Thank you.

Cjeremy635
10-17-2006, 09:36 AM
You're welcome XTRU. Just stating the obvious though. Like I said earlier, it's really hard to watch the line/backs/QB/receivers in real time on Sunday. Going back and watching just the line shed a lot of light on what the actual problem was. I hadn't really done that before, much less in slow motion, pausing, etc. I know that DD didn't have a lot of speed, but he did posess good field vision and having him here with this line would put us in a whole other category at this point IMHO. :twocents:

tsip
10-17-2006, 09:47 AM
You're welcome XTRU. Just stating the obvious though. Like I said earlier, it's really hard to watch the line/backs/QB/receivers in real time on Sunday. Going back and watching just the line shed a lot of light on what the actual problem was. I hadn't really done that before, much less in slow motion, pausing, etc. I know that DD didn't have a lot of speed, but he did posess good field vision and having him here with this line would put us in a whole other category at this point IMHO. :twocents:

...why can't Kubiak see this?--every RB he adds to the roster gets the same result--what's up with this??

real
10-17-2006, 10:02 AM
...why can't Kubiak see this?--every RB he adds to the roster gets the same result--what's up with this??

Every running back=Dayne & Gado...Basically Gado is a younger Dayne....

Lundy, Morency, and Taylor are quicker and looked better in the system...JMO

Cjeremy635
10-17-2006, 10:03 AM
I don't know TSIP, but the holes were obvious and I know that if a regular fan like me can spot them, then a paid professional sure can see a lot more than I can. I don't know why we don't have a running back with speed for running plays and a good blocker in on pass plays? I know that some teams do this and it works. Sure you just throw a few times when you have the fast running back in just to throw them off, but if everyone does their assignment then it shouldn't matter if they know what you are doing because you should be able to execute better then they can. Wasn't that the knock on Lundy, that he isn't a good pass blocker? So put him in on running downs and put Dayne in on passing downs for the most part. Would give us a better chance of being successful in the running game if you ask me. He did excellent in preseason and I think if given an opportunity now he may just shine. Regardless, I think he can single handedly get more than 36 rushing yard in the game. :crying:

texan279
10-17-2006, 10:10 AM
Every running back=Dayne & Gado...Basically Gado is a younger Dayne....

Lundy, Morency, and Taylor are quicker and looked better in the system...JMO

For some reason after trading Morency because of his "problems blocking" and now releasing PBuc because of "not being able to get on the field much" I think we are starting to see what Kubiak has talked about in the past about keeping guys on the roster that can do more than one thing. I mean you cannot tell me that PBuc would not have been worth the money we were paying him to keep him around as a punt returner and a nickel or dime back. And I still think Morency, even if he did have problems blocking, would have been worth keeping, I mean so what if you have to switch backs once or twice a series? Look at our running game is suffering now becuase we picked up two backs that "can block"...

edo783
10-17-2006, 10:12 AM
I think he has seen it and that's why Lundy will be active for the next game. The problem before IMO, mostly had to do with blitz pick up which the young guys really sucked at. Kubes isn't stupid and will make the changes, but he really hasn't had the full package back that is needed.

Cjeremy635
10-17-2006, 10:19 AM
I think he has seen it and that's why Lundy will be active for the next game. The problem before IMO, mostly had to do with blitz pick up which the young guys really sucked at. Kubes isn't stupid and will make the changes, but he really hasn't had the full package back that is needed.

I hope you're right EDO, that Lundy will see more action than just on special teams. I would like to see him get atleast 15 touched in the game. I don't think that is a lot to ask and I think it will give us a good assesment of where he is at this point in his rookie season. Hopefully he will see the holes better than Dayne is.

Marcus
10-17-2006, 10:19 AM
Then if Lundy and Taylor don't do anything, then where would the problem be? Lundy didn't exactly light it up against Philly, ya know?

And Kubes said in the paper today he isn't starting Lundy because "he hasn't been able to handle it" . . . meaning he's still lost on blitz protections. Don't reckon Taylor would be any better at that, even if they both did get more yards running the ball.

real
10-17-2006, 10:21 AM
I hope you're right EDO, that Lundy will see more action than just on special teams. I would like to see him get atleast 15 touched in the game. I don't think that is a lot to ask and I think it will give us a good assesment of where he is at this point in his rookie season. Hopefully he will see the holes better than Dayne is.

Honestly I don't think Lundy is the guy...I don't like how he runs either....But I like him more than Dayne...

IMO, Morency was the best back we had on the roster...He made some mistakes, but he ran with more "ummphh" than any back we have now...

texan279
10-17-2006, 10:22 AM
I wanna see Chris Taylor this Sunday! :wild:

Cjeremy635
10-17-2006, 10:30 AM
I just want to see something that works. I agree with everyone that we don't have a "complete back" at this point so we are going to have to make due with what we have. The only way to do that and be effective is to have a good runner in on run plays and a good blocker in on pass plays. I think it's the only way to be effective given the personnel we have at this point. I don't care if it's Lundy or Taylor back there, either one of them should get more yards than Dayne has.

srstex
10-17-2006, 10:34 AM
I think he has seen it and that's why Lundy will be active for the next game. The problem before IMO, mostly had to do with blitz pick up which the young guys really sucked at. Kubes isn't stupid and will make the changes, but he really hasn't had the full package back that is needed.

Sorry but I differ on the point about Kubiak, when your team average is less than 2 yrds/per carry, and you still try to run, well what would you call it. I only watched the game live, and my since is that after our first score kubiak went to ground with a "damn the torpedoes" attitude that enabled the Cowboys to stay close. When we score and our defense holds, it's time to score again, not just run the ball to prove a point. On Kubiak's assesment of the loss he said that he thought the team came out sluggish in the second half, well I would too if the play calling reminded me of last year, which it does, and the result reminding me of last year which it does, Sean Payton is doing something different in NO and it works, why can't Kubiak? Funny, the only team beat is the team with Capers. I predicted a win in big D, but after watching the Titan D, we are in for a long/hard defeat, and I still believe Sage is Kubiaks guy.

texan279
10-17-2006, 10:34 AM
I just want to see something that works. I agree with everyone that we don't have a "complete back" at this point so we are going to have to make due with what we have. The only way to do that and be effective is to have a good runner in on run plays and a good blocker in on pass plays. I think it's the only way to be effective given the personnel we have at this point. I don't care if it's Lundy or Taylor back there, either one of them should get more yards than Dayne has.

Agree 100% another good post.

BlueThunder
10-17-2006, 04:19 PM
Why don't we steal Ray Perkins off the Chargers Practice squad...:whip:

Errant Hothy
10-17-2006, 04:23 PM
Sorry but I differ on the point about Kubiak, when your team average is less than 2 yrds/per carry, and you still try to run, well what would you call it. I only watched the game live, and my since is that after our first score kubiak went to ground with a "damn the torpedoes" attitude that enabled the Cowboys to stay close. When we score and our defense holds, it's time to score again, not just run the ball to prove a point. On Kubiak's assesment of the loss he said that he thought the team came out sluggish in the second half, well I would too if the play calling reminded me of last year, which it does, and the result reminding me of last year which it does, Sean Payton is doing something different in NO and it works, why can't Kubiak? Funny, the only team beat is the team with Capers. I predicted a win in big D, but after watching the Titan D, we are in for a long/hard defeat, and I still believe Sage is Kubiaks guy.

So Kubiak should have done what after the ground game failed to get going, only called pass plays?:brickwall :brickwall

Yeah that wopuld have worked real well.

Runner
10-17-2006, 04:24 PM
I think he has seen it and that's why Lundy will be active for the next game. The problem before IMO, mostly had to do with blitz pick up which the young guys really sucked at.

If that is the case, we have totally crippled our running game to do something as fundamental as pick up a blitz. Why do we have to do that crippling?

Is the blitz pickup ability of our RBs made more important because our o-line is so bad? Because Carr doesn't read blitzes right and reacts incorrectly? Both/neither/something else?

real
10-17-2006, 04:24 PM
So Kubiak should have done what after the ground game failed to get going, only called pass plays?:brickwall :brickwall

Yeah that wopuld have worked real well.

That statement implies that doing nothing is acceptable...

Errant Hothy
10-17-2006, 04:37 PM
That statement implies that doing nothing is acceptable...

I'm not saying do nothing, but when somebody suggets that the course of action is to simply stop running the ball...I'll call them on the fact that will only get your team beat worse then continuing to try and run, and filing. They tried a screen...it failed, they tried to get guys out in teh flats...no luck there, and I'm pretty sure Kubiak chewed some asses at halftime. Face it we are not as talented as we thought we were, and nowhere is it more apprent then at the RB spot.

BlueThunder
10-17-2006, 04:39 PM
I wouldn't exactly call what we had a passing game.Yes were doing things and protecting the QB but don't you at some point have to add extra blocker and try to get isolation against our deep speed and take shots.I watched 3 short slants to A. Johnson on Henry and Henry is the best cover CB Dallas has.It looked like a total lack of knowledge of the Dallas personial..You should have run the slants on Newman and went deep or combo routes on Henry.Needless to say at times Ellis a 4.80 6'6 DE was lined up on our receiver and never challenged him :crutch:

Marcus
10-17-2006, 05:29 PM
If that is the case, we have totally crippled our running game to do something as fundamental as pick up a blitz. Why do we have to do that crippling?

Either you have the ability or experience necessary to pick up a blitz, (in today's NFL blitz packages) or you don't. That is just as important as running the ball, if not more. Don't trivialize it.

Is the blitz pickup ability of our RBs made more important because our o-line is so bad? Because Carr doesn't read blitzes right and reacts incorrectly? Both/neither/something else?

Hell yes on the former, sometimes on the latter.

Runner
10-17-2006, 06:07 PM
Either you have the ability or experience necessary to pick up a blitz, (in today's NFL blitz packages) or you don't. That is just as important as running the ball, if not more. Don't trivialize it.


I didn't trivialize it - I said it was fundamental. It's amazing to me that we can't find a back that can be adequate at picking up the blitz and adequate at running. I'm not looking for a super star here. We only have people that seem to be adequate at one, if that.

Marcus
10-17-2006, 07:00 PM
I didn't trivialize it - I said it was fundamental. It's amazing to me that we can't find a back that can be adequate at picking up the blitz and adequate at running. I'm not looking for a super star here. We only have people that seem to be adequate at one, if that.
So, considering Carr's health, which one would you choose? I know it sucks to have to choose, but apparently that is the choice that Kubiak is facing.

Runner
10-17-2006, 07:30 PM
So, considering Carr's health, which one would you choose? I know it sucks to have to choose, but apparently that is the choice that Kubiak is facing.

I don't think we should have to make the choice between having a running back who can run or one who can pick up blitzes well enough to support our scheme, but not both.

There is a lot of accountability here.

First of all, it is inexcusable that the front office/coaching staff hasn't identified and acquired a single player who can do both. They made enough roster moves at RB. Is it that we can't identify talent? Didn't identify a need? Heck, Jonathan Wells could probably do the combo better than anybody we have, and he's not even in the league any more.

Second, the position coaches should be able to teach blocking. Why aren't they? What was training camp for?

Third, the running back should be able to block - it is more about attitude and willingness than anything else. If they are unwilling to, we shouldn't be willing to pay them. If we are really sending messages, cut somebody important, not just bit players.

Fourth, the o-line should be better. We've known this for a long time. Weigert is well past his prime and playing poorly, why is he a fixture on the line? Why do we plan to have role players like a swing player back-up starting 14 games? Is Bedell really the best lineman available to fill the last roster spot? These again make me question our talent evaluators.

Fifth, I don't think Carr reads blitzes correctly, so he can't react correctly. He's been in the league 5 years now, when will he learn? Kubiak is a QB guy - hopefully he can fix this if it is part of the problem.

dat_boy_yec
10-17-2006, 07:33 PM
Gee everybody talks about how blitz pick-up is so important for a RB. You would think that as a coach Kubiak would be able to compensate for that wouldn't you. Your running back can't pick up blitzes, so what put in a FB, what Cook can't pick blitzes up either. We let a good FB walk in pre-season and now sign another FB this really makes me question Kubiak's analitical skills. Kubiak said he would play to his player's strengths, obviously our RB's strength in the pre-season wasn't blitz pick-up, it would follow that he would find a way to compensate for that, instead of playing to the player's strength's he goes out and bring's in two other RB's. WHAT'S REALLY GOING ON?

Runner
10-18-2006, 06:15 AM
but he really hasn't had the full package back that is needed.

The question is why not?

edo783
10-18-2006, 09:47 AM
The question is why not?

Mostly, availability of one. We have had guys who can run the one cut, but can't block and others that can block, but can't seem to run the one cut.

DocBar
10-18-2006, 10:54 AM
Lot's of good posts on here, but I think one fundemental fact has been missed: Kubiak is a rookie HC and it shows. IMO, that's why he's making a lot of conservative calls on offense and knee-jerk reaction personnel decisions. I really started questioning his personnel moves when he let Wand and 'Baire Smith go. Trading Morency seemed bone headed to me. I would think a few scheme changes would be sufficient to help an RB that had blitz-pickup problems rather than wholesale changes at the position. How much of the O-line woes can be attributed to Mike Sherman's influence? Sherman is a former HC with a large ego(it's a must for an NFL HC) and definite opinions of how an offense should work. Maybe he's hurting more than helping.
idonno: