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DreDaMan05
10-16-2006, 03:37 PM
It seems to me that this season is in the coffin, the Texans is falling to some bad decision making made by Capers and Casserly which will take time to fix. If you look at all the bad decisions made like cutting Glenn and Sharper, and trading for Buchanon and Babin was very bad decision making. First you lost alot of veteran leadership on defense for unproven guys that play the same position. But the real problem is in the drafts. Every since the Texans enter there first draft they have been drafting by potential not what a guy did in college. And with this saying you can't base your pick on what the guy did his last year in college, but look for a 2-3 yr started that been causing havioc. You need to get playmakers when drafting high and that could be offense of defense. For ex.

2002 Draft David Carr had a big senior year, never heard of him before then, who we could have drafted: Julius Peppers, Roy Williams which i know you heard of.

2003 Draft Andre Johnson got great potential size speed but I remember Santana Moss not Andre Johnson. who we could have drafted: Byron Leftwich, Terrell Suggs playmakers in college

2004 Draft Dunta Robinson good potential nice speed never heard of him in college, who we could have drafted: Ben Roethisberger who was tearing the MAC up for years and nice bowl game, Johnathan Vilma, Tommie Harris who got the Bears defense looking good oh yeah where is he from???

2005 Draft Travis Johnson enough said, who we could have draft: Derrick Johnson, David Pollack had good college careers (playmakers)

Which brings us to Kubiak first pick as coach with Casserly in his ear who he go pick Mario Williams great potential had 1 good year in college just like the last picks he is a beast potential wise but with Bush, Lienart, Young, Hawk, Deangelo Williams, and Huff i just don't know if you go by potential and one year hits in college you leave yourself for a 50% chance rate of being sucessful which is what going on now Johnson he turned out to be a Pro Bowler, Robinson should have been a Pro Bowler his rookie year or was that because of Glenn, and Carr is going to be a good quarterback so 3 out of 5 maybe will not cut it for high picks in the draft. Well I will be back later about coaching strategy and our running back situation.:stirpot:

afcman
10-16-2006, 04:13 PM
Ben Roethisberger

He already had a great team around him. We STILL need help on the OL for pete's sake!!! We have close to NOTHING to show for after all these years.

All that money that was paid out all that time....and for what? Just so we can start over? Is the owner mad? Does he have a bottomless pit of money? Sign me up!

DreDaMan05
10-16-2006, 04:20 PM
Ben Roethisberger had two good years under him in college is what i'm saying. The Texans need to stop going for potential and get the for sure guys who come to play every year!:redtowel:

DreDaMan05
10-16-2006, 04:24 PM
And why spend a draft pick on a lineman we got Boselli still on contract and he might come back huh:yikes: No really I didn't even add the linemans we past on which i thought we was doing when we got Babin but I was wrong. But when you have a high draft pick it means you don't have enough playmakers unless there is no playmakers that you need then you go high with a lineman.

afcman
10-16-2006, 04:30 PM
We need help on so many positions....where to start? Makes my head spin.

BUT.... If we don't have the basics (good OL and DL) what good would it be to have picked Bush? I sure would have loved to have him. And he would have been great PR for the press. But just to have him get hurt because we can't protect him or block for him?

DreDaMan05
10-16-2006, 04:36 PM
For the 2006 Draft I thought Bush was not the answer. Yes he is a playmaker and depending on how you play him he could factor in good. But since Davis gets hurt every year I thought if you wanted a running back Williams or Morency would have been better.

DreDaMan05
10-16-2006, 06:11 PM
But anyways those drafts are over and there is nothing we can do about it, I just hope we can get it right soon or they can call us the Cincinatti Texans, to all where do you think the problem consist at because there is a problem somewhere?

Texan1
10-16-2006, 07:25 PM
Yes, the Texans have used WAY to many 1st round picks on the D line. We should have taken Bush - period. Williams will be a bust for 1st pick money.

hollywood_texan
10-16-2006, 07:27 PM
Yes, the Texans have used WAY to many 1st round picks on the D line. We should have taken Bush - period. Williams will be a bust for 1st pick money.

Wow, easy on the bust word.

Living up to expectations is one thing, bust is entirely another thing.

Texan1
10-16-2006, 07:51 PM
Wow, easy on the bust word.

Living up to expectations is one thing, bust is entirely another thing.

You can't just look at production - you have to take into account the cap money as well. If you pay 1st pick money to a player who produces on par with a 2nd round pick over the long term - thats a bust. With the salary cap - you can't afford to over pay players for production. Personally I haven't seen aything out of MArio that will indicate he can ever produce like a 1st over pick. Hope I am wrong.

HJam72
10-16-2006, 07:57 PM
You can't just look at production - you have to take into account the cap money as well. If you pay 1st pick money to a player who produces on par with a 2nd round pick over the long term - thats a bust. With the salary cap - you can't afford to over pay players for production. Personally I haven't seen aything out of MArio that will indicate he can ever produce like a 1st over pick. Hope I am wrong.

I have, yesterday. Look, the guy did some pretty good stuff yesterday. I'm not saying he's earned that pick at all yet, but he's starting to show signs. He once got triple teamed and managed to eventually break through. He caught a runner from behind from the other side of the LOS. He played zone pass coverage, for crying out loud, and tackled a guy 15 yds. downfield, getting dropped back into the coverage because they are doubling him often (or were yesterday anyway). He's showing signs. Doesn't mean he will turn out to be worth it or not, but he's showing signs.

The problem is that his team sucks.

jparrish
10-16-2006, 07:59 PM
Are you seriously doubting the Texans drafting Andre Johnson? I know there were some questionable decisions, but Andre was not one of them! I would take Andre over Santana any day.

19-10
10-16-2006, 08:05 PM
Are you seriously doubting the Texans drafting Andre Johnson? I know there were some questionable decisions, but Andre was not one of them!

I am - he's a decent receiver but not ahead of the more immediate needs we had and continue to have. Have to block and tackle

Sarg01
10-16-2006, 08:18 PM
Neither TJ or Mario are busts yet. It's basically rookie season for both (TJ was playing 3-4 last year, which any ***** could see before the draft that he was wholly unsuited for), and you can't bust as a rookie until the season is mostly over - even then you have players like Reggie Williams who "bust" for two seasons and then come on in the third.

We certainly should have drafted DJ and RB in those drafts, but hey, hindsight is ... oh, wait, we all wanted those guys before the draft ... however, its not fair to call the guys we did get busts just because someone else did better. By that standard, the whole league busted on Tom Brady 5 times over.

Robinson does what he does well, which is tackle and run-support. If he had better players around him, he could play short and get more picks, but with questionable safety help, he's needing to leave a cushion on the receivers and try to hit them as they're catching it. Roth isn't looking too sharp this year with his 0 TDs to 7 INTs. Vilma or Harris would have been solid, but nothing wrong with Dunta.

AJ needs to get the drops under control. It was a terrible game for him. Leftwich would have brought us nothing we don't have with Carr, and is less mobile to boot. Suggs would have been a good pick, but we were coming off a solid defensive year and struggling with an inept offense. Billy Miller was our pass catching threat. Billy. Miller.

DreDaMan05
10-17-2006, 08:32 AM
Trust me I have nothing against Carr, Johnson, and DRob they are good players in this league, but you miss the point. When you draft out of potential instead of what they did in college over a 2-3 yr. career you leave yourself open for a 50% success rating. We got lucky with Carr, Johnson, and DRob. Tom Brady had a good college career but scouts says his arm is not strong enough and look what everybody miss out on, same with Matt Lienart as you can see Monday night. The Texans need to stop listening to scouts in the first two rounds of the draft and go by what a player did in college over two years.

19-10
10-17-2006, 08:51 AM
Trust me I have nothing against Carr, Johnson, and DRob they are good players in this league, but you miss the point. When you draft out of potential instead of what they did in college over a 2-3 yr. career you leave yourself open for a 50% success rating. We got lucky with Carr, Johnson, and DRob. Tom Brady had a good college career but scouts says his arm is not strong enough and look what everybody miss out on, same with Matt Lienart as you can see Monday night. The Texans need to stop listening to scouts in the first two rounds of the draft and go by what a player did in college over two years.

By that reasoning Andre Ware, Gino Terrata, Ron Dane, Cedric Benson and the list goes forever would have run the NFL. It's not that simple, the reality is that most players are a crap shoot in the NFL so teams go with there best rating system.

DreDaMan05
10-17-2006, 09:24 AM
[/B]

By that reasoning Andre Ware, Gino Terrata, Ron Dane, Cedric Benson and the list goes forever would have run the NFL. It's not that simple, the reality is that most players are a crap shoot in the NFL so teams go with there best rating system.

Yes there will be some busts but what is the best rating system how fast you run the 40 and how much weights you can throw up or what you did on the field when it counts?

19-10
10-17-2006, 11:49 AM
Don't get me wrong, I totally agree with you and will never understand passing on Bush, VY or Leinart for that matter but there are also the Jerry Rices of the league and maybe our staff thinks they know how to spot that? Maybe just maybe Kubes ego needs to be checked.

Honoring Earl 34
10-17-2006, 12:33 PM
I think we have guys who say the right things but their just are not that good or motivated . Their OK with getting their @$@ kicked .

Our OL has two guys that have been there from the start ... and the OL still blows , go figure .

I almost think you could cut the players that have been here over two years and do better ... the new guys are'nt tainted .:crying:

TommyS
10-17-2006, 12:50 PM
2002 Draft David Carr had a big senior year, never heard of him before then, who we could have drafted: Julius Peppers, Roy Williams which i know you heard of.

and gone with Kent Graham, Mike Quinn or Tony Banks at QB ??? are you kidding?

Honoring Earl 34
10-17-2006, 01:00 PM
and gone with Kent Graham, Mike Quinn or Tony Banks at QB ??? are you kidding?

Yeah ... where would we be ?

TexansLucky13
10-17-2006, 01:04 PM
Ben Roethlisberger is not a good QB

edo783
10-17-2006, 03:21 PM
AAAhhh, the MIGHTY Quinn. Good times, yup, good times.

DreDaMan05
10-17-2006, 07:26 PM
and gone with Kent Graham, Mike Quinn or Tony Banks at QB ??? are you kidding?

Yes go with one of them the first year, then maybe Leftwich the next year. At least you had a cornerstone player on defense, and we all know defense wins championship. Don't get me wrong I'm not hating on Carr. I have faith in Carr. I just want them to get the best player who perform on the field.

Bronco Texan
10-17-2006, 08:24 PM
I'm tired of everyone living in the past!!! I'm tired of what we should of, could of, didn't do!!! How bout we start now, this year, this draft. We had a really great draft. This time next year people will be talking about how much more improved our D is. William is and will be a studd, Ryans will be one of the most talked about LB at years end. Honestly we all knew we would win this year, but that is cool at least our guys are getting time in a will learn. Hopefully next years offseason will be just as good, if not better. Then we will see if we will have the same record! Building takes time. Yes I can't wait but it will be well worth it!

Texan1
10-17-2006, 08:35 PM
I have, yesterday. Look, the guy did some pretty good stuff yesterday. I'm not saying he's earned that pick at all yet, but he's starting to show signs. He once got triple teamed and managed to eventually break through. He caught a runner from behind from the other side of the LOS. He played zone pass coverage, for crying out loud, and tackled a guy 15 yds. downfield, getting dropped back into the coverage because they are doubling him often (or were yesterday anyway). He's showing signs. Doesn't mean he will turn out to be worth it or not, but he's showing signs.

The problem is that his team sucks.

I think Ryans has shown flashes of greatness. Mario - not so much. Well, not at all.

I guess this is pointless - those who wanted to take Bush will never be satsified b/c MArio will never be able to run the ball, lead the NFL in receptions, and return punts for TDs. And those who like Mario always be be pointing to opposite field tackles\like plays for signs of improvement.

HJam72
10-18-2006, 06:41 PM
I think Ryans has shown flashes of greatness. Mario - not so much. Well, not at all.

I guess this is pointless - those who wanted to take Bush will never be satsified b/c MArio will never be able to run the ball, lead the NFL in receptions, and return punts for TDs. And those who like Mario always be be pointing to opposite field tackles\like plays for signs of improvement.

Just for the record, I didn't want Mario at the time, but I'm holding off judgement for a long time. Right now I just want to see signs of improvement and I think I am, but that's no expert opinion.

Erratic Assassin
10-18-2006, 10:34 PM
and gone with Kent Graham, Mike Quinn or Tony Banks at QB ??? are you kidding?

For one year (a year in which we only won 4 games with David Carr). Without a QB we'd had drafted high in subequent years. We could have gotten Carson Palmer or Ben Rothlesberger, or Vince Young or whoever floats your boat down the line.

Hervoyel
10-18-2006, 11:01 PM
Personally I haven't seen aything out of MArio that will indicate he can ever produce like a 1st over pick. Hope I am wrong.

I know that was a typo with the capital "A" following the capital "M" in Mario but I swear IF Mario turns out to be a bust you just might have coined his nickname.

I'm thinking it could be "MIArio Williams" with an emphasis on the MIA (Missing In Action).

Hervoyel
10-18-2006, 11:07 PM
and gone with Kent Graham, Mike Quinn or Tony Banks at QB ??? are you kidding?


Absolutely. Anyone who spends first overall money on a QB just to make him a human pinata is a fool and has wasted their money and the opportunity to get someone special that won't be damaged goods 16 games later.

Leaving Carr to get pummeled in his rookie season was criminal and set this entire "What exactly do we have here" scenario around Carr into motion. They completely botched his development and I think for that reason alone Dom Capers should never get another opportunity to be a head coach in the NFL again. For that matter Chris Palmer should be slapped everytime someone tries to call him a QB "guru" and Charlie Casserly should never be allowed into a draft room again even as an observer.

We might have won more than 4 games in our first year if we'd had Tony Banks at QB and even if we didn't that would have been 76 sacks that David Carr didn't take.

BigDTexansFan
10-18-2006, 11:20 PM
It seems to me that this season is in the coffin, the Texans is falling to some bad decision making made by Capers and Casserly which will take time to fix. If you look at all the bad decisions made like cutting Glenn and Sharper, and trading for Buchanon and Babin was very bad decision making. First you lost alot of veteran leadership on defense for unproven guys that play the same position. But the real problem is in the drafts. Every since the Texans enter there first draft they have been drafting by potential not what a guy did in college. And with this saying you can't base your pick on what the guy did his last year in college, but look for a 2-3 yr started that been causing havioc. You need to get playmakers when drafting high and that could be offense of defense. For ex.

2002 Draft David Carr had a big senior year, never heard of him before then, who we could have drafted: Julius Peppers, Roy Williams which i know you heard of.

2003 Draft Andre Johnson got great potential size speed but I remember Santana Moss not Andre Johnson. who we could have drafted: Byron Leftwich, Terrell Suggs playmakers in college

2004 Draft Dunta Robinson good potential nice speed never heard of him in college, who we could have drafted: Ben Roethisberger who was tearing the MAC up for years and nice bowl game, Johnathan Vilma, Tommie Harris who got the Bears defense looking good oh yeah where is he from???

2005 Draft Travis Johnson enough said, who we could have draft: Derrick Johnson, David Pollack had good college careers (playmakers)

Which brings us to Kubiak first pick as coach with Casserly in his ear who he go pick Mario Williams great potential had 1 good year in college just like the last picks he is a beast potential wise but with Bush, Lienart, Young, Hawk, Deangelo Williams, and Huff i just don't know if you go by potential and one year hits in college you leave yourself for a 50% chance rate of being sucessful which is what going on now Johnson he turned out to be a Pro Bowler, Robinson should have been a Pro Bowler his rookie year or was that because of Glenn, and Carr is going to be a good quarterback so 3 out of 5 maybe will not cut it for high picks in the draft. Well I will be back later about coaching strategy and our running back situation.:stirpot:


ONE thing see why you a rookie (think is a Cowgirl trolling in the woodpile)

HINDSIGHT IS 20/20

BTW Roy Williams will be famous next season, only player from OU to hit someone and NOT go to prison