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OzzO
10-16-2006, 12:54 PM
There are a few times he's been ragged on at the MB, I think this is one time he summed it up pretty decent.

One part that really stood out:
One thing Kubiak ought to change is his approach. Lighten up, Gary. Acknowledge that you're going to be the underdog virtually every week and that you're going to have to take some chances.

Before Jimmy Johnson constructed a Super Bowl winner, he instilled a reckless, nothing-to-lose attitude in his Cowboys. He told his players he was going to take some chances, be aggressive, let the other team feel the pressure.

Kubiak's first mistake Sunday came on his team's opening possession. The Texans had three cracks from the Dallas 1-yard line. Ron Dayne gained nothing on second down. David Carr threw the ball away on third down.

On fourth down, Kubiak settled for Kris Brown's 19-yard field goal. Bad move. Kubiak should have gone for it. He should have shown his players he believed in them.

He should have come up with something, a reverse or a rollout or a trick play. He should have remembered how infrequently his team gets to the 1-yard line. Instead, he played it safe. He can't win by playing it safe.

Kubiak's challenge now is to hold things together. Forget the idea of teaching his players how to win. His challenge now is to keep them from quitting.

The rest of the season - "juevos" out. Drop the resemblence of Capers-ball, open up any remaining pages of the playbook and damn the torpedoes.

... or something like that.

chronic article (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/justice/texans/4261425.html)

Vinny
10-16-2006, 12:57 PM
They were dogging this decison on the morning Dallas radio feed I was listening too as well.

Runner
10-16-2006, 01:04 PM
I think the message board was split down the middle on going for it with two minutes to go in the Miami game. Some thought it was too conservative, some thought it was the right thing to do. Many said it was the right thing to do because we won. Well, we lost this one and didn't go for it. We would have lost anyway, but at least we would have tried.

I think we should have more aggression too. What's the worst that can happen, we get blown out? That is happening anyway, and we are teaching our players to be quitters. IMO.

Blake
10-16-2006, 01:10 PM
I think they just want to *****. Flame him for not going for it on 4th down.

But what if he didnt make it on fourth down? They would flame him for not taking the points, and for taking the wind out of the teams sail.

This is a dumb argument.

jerek
10-16-2006, 01:16 PM
Actually in this case I thought it was the right call. Get the points, and kick the ball off. Ron Dayne can't even get a good push and the Cowboys were clearly watching for the PA/rollout that has been so successful for us in goalline in games past.

I was pretty encouraged by 6-3 at half. Then we left our defense in the lockerroom, Dallas made defensive adjustments, and Ron Dayne still sucked.

noxiousdog
10-16-2006, 02:06 PM
Should have gone for it. Nothing to lose and everything to gain.

Lucky
10-16-2006, 02:12 PM
Raise your hand if you think the Texans had a play that would've scored on 4th down?

Bueller? Bueller?

That's what I thought. Kubiak made the right call. That he didn't have a play that would get into the endzone is what he should be criticized for.

Texans_Chick
10-16-2006, 02:23 PM
Raise your hand if you think the Texans had a play that would've scored on 4th down?

Bueller? Bueller?

That's what I thought. Kubiak made the right call. That he didn't have a play that would get into the endzone is what he should be criticized for.


And given what the defense had shown so far, it was a possibility that this was going to be a tight game where every field goal mattered.

Then turnover, turnover, turnover, turn out the lights....

ledzeppelin229
10-16-2006, 02:26 PM
Raise your hand if you think the Texans had a play that would've scored on 4th down?

Bueller? Bueller?

That's what I thought. Kubiak made the right call. That he didn't have a play that would get into the endzone is what he should be criticized for.

I can understand not having a (somewhat new) play that our largely inept offense could execute into the endzone. Maybe some sort of dinky dunk pass to a TE would have accomplished it....but it's just sad that we can be on the one yard lane and dumptruck Dayne can't get it into gear enough to get across the line.

TheOgre
10-16-2006, 02:27 PM
The defense was on the field the entire 3rd quarter. How do we expect them to play under those circumstances?

El Tejano
10-16-2006, 02:29 PM
And given what the defense had shown so far, it was a possibility that this was going to be a tight game where every field goal mattered.

Then turnover, turnover, turnover, turn out the lights....

TC, I didn't mean to quote you. For some reason I keep hitting the quote button.

Anyhow, when you are on the road, you take the points. Especially since Dayne didn't do anything, Dallas was just going to come after Carr. It was good enough until we threw the ball away in the second half.

joetexan
10-16-2006, 02:34 PM
No guts, no glory...

So many of you will defend any decision the Texans make, no matter what happens. Ever. They could trade for Albert Haynesworth today and you people would be talking about how the rest of the league has misjudged the guy and how Kubiak is a genius for bringing him aboard. Any critics would be roundly bashed. They could trade David Carr for a 2012 seventh round pick and you guys would go nuts about how the team is building for the future. Any critics would be chastised. Geez...get off the battle red koolaid, will ya?

Kubiak played without any guts on that call. Justice is right - how many times do the Texans get to the 1 yard line? If you have any faith in your guys and your beloved system, then go for it. What the hell do they have to lose at this point? They certainly aren't playing like winners. This is a losing team, top to bottom. And it's okay to be critical of that - you're not "not a fan" or a "bandwagoner" or a "fairweather fan" if you criticize what should be openly criticized.

The fact is, this team flat out stinks, the coaching is too conservative, and if Oakland would have won last night, the Texans would be first in line for the 2007 No. 1 pick.

(Edit to add - The 2001-02 Patriots would have lost the Super Bowl to the Rams if they had the "just take the points" mentality. Instead of kneeling to go to OT with the heavily favored Rams, the Pats went against the grain and drove down the field for the win. Why not? The rest is history. Maybe that's why the Pats are the Pats, and the Texans are the Texans...)

tsip
10-16-2006, 02:46 PM
I'm more concerned with what Kubiak did on 1st and 2nd down, running Dayne up the 'gut.' Didn't Carr score a TD against Miami on a roll out (boot leg). Like Capers did with the plays that worked, probably won't see Carr's TD play again..

Double Barrel
10-16-2006, 02:55 PM
When your team is "fragile" - yeah, a word you really want associated with your football team - then blowing a play like this might set them back for another decade. Kubiak made the right call based upon his perception of our team's "fragile" state of mind.

Unfortunately, this team seems to be Dorothy's companions all rolled into one: no heart, no courage, and no brains.

disaacks3
10-16-2006, 03:06 PM
Kicking the FG on 4th, I don't have any issue with...It's those first two "up-the-gut" w/ Dayne attempts which were worse IMO. Take your "risky" shot on 1st, NOT 3rd down. By 4th down, you take the lead & the points on the road.

It's obvious that Kubes has little faith in his team's offensive capabilities at this point. (Who can blame him?) This decision was nothing more than a carryover from the decision to SIT on the ball at the end of the 1st half against Miami.

run-david-run
10-16-2006, 03:11 PM
And given what the defense had shown so far, it was a possibility that this was going to be a tight game where every field goal mattered.

Then turnover, turnover, turnover, turn out the lights....

That was the first drive of the game, the only thing the defense had shown was warm-ups. I thought we shouldhave gone for it, but the 3rd down play was doomed for failure. He faked to the right and rolled to the right, straight into the defenders. I have no idea why they would think that would work because if the D just reacted to Dayne they would have run into Carr, which is what happened. I thought we should have tried a pass earlier, fade to AJ anybody?

Its also kinda funny that you pass your way down to the 3 and then try to run it in three times in a row and fail...good times

tsip
10-16-2006, 03:45 PM
When your team is "fragile" - yeah, a word you really want associated with your football team - then blowing a play like this might set them back for another decade. Kubiak made the right call based upon his perception of our team's "fragile" state of mind.

Unfortunately, this team seems to be Dorothy's companions all rolled into one: no heart, no courage, and no brains.


...where else can you make so much money/get great benefits and not do your job because your 'personna' is fragile--course, I wouldn't tell this to Cohwer or Parcells or Bellechick==Kubiak?OK:brickwall

Second Honeymoon
10-16-2006, 04:00 PM
You have to go for it on 4th down in that situation. Best case scenario, Touchdown and some momentum. Worse case, you get stopped and Dallas has the ball at the 1yard line with Bledsoe the statue taking snaps in his own endzone. Dallas is forced to be conservative and you have a chance for a big play in their end of the field (fumble, safety/sack).

That was a small victory for Dallas' defense to stop us after the methodical penalty-supplemented opening drive. Kubiak needs to know he needs to play like Belichik in NE or even Parcells. Parcells goes for it and shows his team that he believes in them and will put the game on their shoulders. His lack of nad was disturbing.

doug ftw

Kaiser Toro
10-16-2006, 04:04 PM
Very debatable and see both sides of the issue on whether you go for it or not. This team needs to grow up and get an identity. If your identity is to play conservative you better have a strong defense, a running attack and a QB who makes no mistakes. We have one of those variables at times.

How can he measure any player or unit on this team if he does not know how they will react when in a pressure situation? If he waits for this maturation of grown professional men then we may not see a winning season until the next staff comes in. True coaching must have a result in order to have a platform for feedback and future actions. I do not see any game coaching, from a development standpoint, going on at the moment.

ATXFan
10-16-2006, 04:07 PM
But what if he didnt make it on fourth down?

Dallas wouldve had the ball on the one yard line. If that wouldve been the case and the Cowboys wouldve scored then the Texans had no reason being in the game. They werent in the game after the half anyway. They shouldve atleast gone out fearless as opposed to heartless.

The game was over as soon as the Texans settled for the field goal.

Runner
10-16-2006, 04:10 PM
When your team is "fragile" - yeah, a word you really want associated with your football team - then blowing a play like this might set them back for another decade. Kubiak made the right call based upon his perception of our team's "fragile" state of mind.

Unfortunately, this team seems to be Dorothy's companions all rolled into one: no heart, no courage, and no brains.

Put yourself in the players' shoes. If you were in the line-up and regardless of the team making the play or not, how would you respond to:

a) the coaches confidence in you
b) the coaches lack of confidence in you

I think the players are harmed more by not getting the chance than by getting the chance and failing.

Dime
10-16-2006, 05:10 PM
If this decision to kick a field goal won the game, then he would ahve been seen as a hero. Hindsight 20 20 crap.

Kaiser Toro
10-16-2006, 05:13 PM
If this decision to kick a field goal won the game, then he would ahve been seen as a hero. Hindsight 20 20 crap.

Winning a game is nice, but let's compete first. I am not quite sure what a 19 yd field goal yields from a coaching standpoint. Might as well give every one blue ribbons and a sno cone for their "effort."

Grid
10-16-2006, 05:27 PM
Being conservative is perceived in much the same way that being reckless is.

When you win the game, it was a great move.. when you lose, everyone thinks your a moron.

Texans_Chick
10-16-2006, 05:28 PM
Total barf article.

It reminds of Parcells talking about the QB controversy stuff with Bledsoe. And he said in so many words that a lot of times sportswriters don't know anything other than stuff involving the QB, so that's what they are going to write about.

As a reader, there a zillion "hard topics" I would like to read about, but usually you get the seat of the pants, no thought involved gee we shoulda done this sort of analysis.

Here are my list of barfy things that sportswriters, not just Justice talk too much about at the expense of more substative things:

effort
leadership
confidence
overfocus on the QB and not on the rest of the team
hindsight decision making

Of course, effort, and leadership and confidence and QB play and decision making all play a part of winning, but they are pretty gooey topics. Often sportswriters use these things as sort of a shorthand for why a team is losing without going into any analysis of why they are saying that, other than they just kinda feel it at the time.

There are a bizillion decisions that coaches and front office staff folks need to make. Some of those work. Some don't work. When you are already in the pit of despair, it is easier to find further failure before finding success. Not just in football but in all of life. Criticism is always always always easier to do than finding solutions and creating stuff.

Sorry about the aside...

I don't have big problems with coaching decisions that most coaches would make (esp in a close, at that time low scoring game where you can't buy a yard).

Imatexanfan
10-16-2006, 05:36 PM
Should have gone for it. Nothing to lose and everything to gain.

I'm with you dog, if they wouldn't have got it (TD), the Cowboys would have been down at the 1 then Bledsoe would've got sacked (safety) then we get the ball again and get a (TD).:yawn:

RTP2110
10-16-2006, 05:38 PM
I was at the game, and I was calling for the QB sneak after the 1st Dayne run. I was disappointed when they ran Dayne a 2nd time.

real
10-16-2006, 05:44 PM
I was disappointed when they ran Dayne a 2nd time.

I was disappointed they ran him at all...not on the goal line....in the game period...

tsip
10-16-2006, 05:51 PM
Being conservative is perceived in much the same way that being reckless is.

When you win the game, it was a great move.. when you lose, everyone thinks your a moron.


...few teams have won championships without taking chances--too, by being aggressive, if you make a mistake you can learn from it and increase your odds for next time...

IMO, reckless is a 'little' extreme. If you go for 4th and 1 from your 10 yd line and don't make it, you risk losing a lot--even if you get the FD, you haven't gained much--maybe reckless applies in this situation.

However, in our scenario Sunday, the worse we get is giving the Cowboys 'horrible' field position. Too, when you only avg 14 pts a game, losing 3 is easier to make up than getting another chance to get 7 from the one yd line.

Too, both the Chronicle and another poster mentioned something today that I've brought up fefore--if Kubiak is going to 'talk the talk.' then he needs to 'walk the walk.' From day one, he 'hyped' us up with his 'we're going to be agressive/going to play to win rhetoric,'etc.etc., but left us still 'dangling for the carrot.'...maybe he needs to take a deep breath and....?????

utahmark
10-16-2006, 07:55 PM
No guts, no glory...

So many of you will defend any decision the Texans make, no matter what happens. Ever. They could trade for Albert Haynesworth today and you people would be talking about how the rest of the league has misjudged the guy and how Kubiak is a genius for bringing him aboard. Any critics would be roundly bashed. They could trade David Carr for a 2012 seventh round pick and you guys would go nuts about how the team is building for the future. Any critics would be chastised. Geez...get off the battle red koolaid, will ya?

Kubiak played without any guts on that call. Justice is right - how many times do the Texans get to the 1 yard line? If you have any faith in your guys and your beloved system, then go for it. What the hell do they have to lose at this point? They certainly aren't playing like winners. This is a losing team, top to bottom. And it's okay to be critical of that - you're not "not a fan" or a "bandwagoner" or a "fairweather fan" if you criticize what should be openly criticized.

The fact is, this team flat out stinks, the coaching is too conservative, and if Oakland would have won last night, the Texans would be first in line for the 2007 No. 1 pick.

(Edit to add - The 2001-02 Patriots would have lost the Super Bowl to the Rams if they had the "just take the points" mentality. Instead of kneeling to go to OT with the heavily favored Rams, the Pats went against the grain and drove down the field for the win. Why not? The rest is history. Maybe that's why the Pats are the Pats, and the Texans are the Texans...)

man your being pretty harsh. what play did you want them to run. i mean they already tried the fake role out. they could'nt run the ball for a yard even when dallas didnt know we were running. we failed to convert on 3rd and 1 four times in the first half.. so what play would you of ran?

RTP2110
10-16-2006, 08:04 PM
All I know is that it's time to put in Chris Taylor. He can't do any worse than what we're getting now.

Kaiser Toro
10-16-2006, 08:17 PM
Total barf article.

It reminds of Parcells talking about the QB controversy stuff with Bledsoe. And he said in so many words that a lot of times sportswriters don't know anything other than stuff involving the QB, so that's what they are going to write about.

As a reader, there a zillion "hard topics" I would like to read about, but usually you get the seat of the pants, no thought involved gee we shoulda done this sort of analysis.

Here are my list of barfy things that sportswriters, not just Justice talk too much about at the expense of more substative things:

effort
leadership
confidence
overfocus on the QB and not on the rest of the team
hindsight decision making

Of course, effort, and leadership and confidence and QB play and decision making all play a part of winning, but they are pretty gooey topics. Often sportswriters use these things as sort of a shorthand for why a team is losing without going into any analysis of why they are saying that, other than they just kinda feel it at the time.

There are a bizillion decisions that coaches and front office staff folks need to make. Some of those work. Some don't work. When you are already in the pit of despair, it is easier to find further failure before finding success. Not just in football but in all of life. Criticism is always always always easier to do than finding solutions and creating stuff.

Sorry about the aside...

I don't have big problems with coaching decisions that most coaches would make (esp in a close, at that time low scoring game where you can't buy a yard).

I bet Parcells was simply saying you sportswriters have not coached before. Intangibles like leadership, toughness, good in space, recognizes, good teammate, confidence, etc are all real discussions that coaches have after practice with one another, on the phone, at the bar, during the game and dream about having in each player. It is coach speak, because it is coach speak.

dantem
10-16-2006, 08:18 PM
Dallas wouldve had the ball on the one yard line. If that wouldve been the case and the Cowboys wouldve scored then the Texans had no reason being in the game. They werent in the game after the half anyway. They shouldve atleast gone out fearless as opposed to heartless.

The game was over as soon as the Texans settled for the field goal.

The game wasn't over until we had 3 turnovers in a row so close to the goal line and our defense stayed on the field for an entire quarter.

Actually that game proved what our coaches have been preaching. If you become one dementional the game is over. The first half we played well, we tried to run and the passing game was available. The second half Dallas stopped protecting the run alltogether and started double and tripple teaming recievers.

With no running game we can get by for a couple of quarters, but when the other team feels comfortable that thier front four can handle the run. they can shut down our passing game.

The way I se it we have two major problems

1) Terrible run blocking - The Best running back in the league couldnt get yardage with this offensive line.

2) our run scheme seems to be pretty easy to defend... right up the middle into the pile. NO CREATIVITY in the run playbook. What is wrong with bringing the run outside every once in a while?

I think our coaches need to abandon the Bronco's run play book. It does not work with this line.

dantem
10-16-2006, 08:27 PM
All I know is that it's time to put in Chris Taylor. He can't do any worse than what we're getting now.

Your dogging the wrong position it is not the RB's it is the absense of run blocking ability in our offensive line. Most great running backs are great because they are running through a huge hole openned up by the O-Line. Gado and Lundy are both fairly explosive in the open field, we just never see them get there.

phan1
10-16-2006, 09:15 PM
I disagree with his argument in general. Yeah, I would have like to see us go for it on 4th and goal, but it wasn't a terrible call. It was a good time to take an early lead in the 1st quarter. I think that makes sense. How are you supposed to be all "gung ho" when your turning it over like crazy, and the blitzes are just burning our secondary? Just not seeing it...