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El Tejano
10-16-2006, 09:29 AM
I thought our team would be up for this game. They had two weeks to prepare for a innerstate rival. A win would definetly give everyone the opportunity to forgive and forget all that has happened in the past, starting out 0-3.

I look out on the field, a guy makes a 3rd down conversion and noone gets hyped at all, a guy gets a sack and noone jumps around like we did something good to even attempt at getting momentum to swing my way.

Look at the side line and nobody is talking to each other to let anyone know that we are still in this game and to just get them the ball or anything.

You look across at the opponents sideline and everything I mentioned above was done on their sideline.

That being said, I am all for giving David and anybody else a sit until he or someone can step up. I was a DC supporter but there is a lack of leadership there to take us to the next level. Yes he has played well this season but worse QBs are winning because someone is leading that team. Sharper said it long ago, that someone needs to guide this team to a win and DC needs to be that man. If Kubiak wants to pad his stats so that he can be traded, I'm cool with it. David can and needs to bring that part of his game up if he wants to continue to be the QB for this team and take us to that next level.

Heywood
10-16-2006, 09:30 AM
mods, isn't this a flagrant repost of yesterday's thread? or, do you only delete my posts?

El Tejano
10-16-2006, 09:30 AM
mods, isn't this a flagrant repost of yesterday's thread? or, do you only delete my posts?

I haven't been on here for a week. Today is my first day back. Easy!!!

Hulk75
10-16-2006, 09:50 AM
I thought our team would be up for this game. They had two weeks to prepare for a innerstate rival. A win would definetly give everyone the opportunity to forgive and forget all that has happened in the past, starting out 0-3.

I look out on the field, a guy makes a 3rd down conversion and noone gets hyped at all, a guy gets a sack and noone jumps around like we did something good to even attempt at getting momentum to swing my way.

Look at the side line and nobody is talking to each other to let anyone know that we are still in this game and to just get them the ball or anything.

You look across at the opponents sideline and everything I mentioned above was done on their sideline.

That being said, I am all for giving David and anybody else a sit until he or someone can step up. I was a DC supporter but there is a lack of leadership there to take us to the next level. Yes he has played well this season but worse QBs are winning because someone is leading that team. Sharper said it long ago, that someone needs to guide this team to a win and DC needs to be that man. If Kubiak wants to pad his stats so that he can be traded, I'm cool with it. David can and needs to bring that part of his game up if he wants to continue to be the QB for this team and take us to that next level.

Give me a break, he tongue lashed Andre Johnson ON the field after his 4th drop, and he was trying to get our heartless Lineman to get up and block somebody, NOBODY wants to win more then David Carr..............Once your off the band wagon your not getting back on.

SESupergenius
10-16-2006, 09:54 AM
I saw Carr bark out many times yesterday at a team that just has no heart. Once Carr threw the 1st INT our team just let down and had no fire. The poor play by the CB's once again and a horrible running game is killing this team.

Marcus
10-16-2006, 09:58 AM
Here we go with the "leadership" thing again.:wacko:

SBTexans08
10-16-2006, 10:34 AM
Here we go with the "leadership" thing again.:wacko:

It's true...there's no fire in their blood.

The only ones I see with it are three players, Carr....Robinson....and Peek. Beyond that...you'll be hard-pressed to find another under the Texans roster.

noxiousdog
10-16-2006, 10:36 AM
That Jerry Rice would have been so much better if he ranted and raved on the sidelines.

SBTexans08
10-16-2006, 10:41 AM
That Jerry Rice would have been so much better if he ranted and raved on the sidelines.

Nope, no ranting or raving....but, determination in the eyes...yes! Rice had it.

When Johnson gets knocked up....he walks off the sidelines as if it's acceptable. Man...we need to see that look in his face like next time he's out....he won't be denied and actually do it!

Double Barrel
10-16-2006, 10:43 AM
Give me a break, he tongue lashed Andre Johnson ON the field after his 4th drop, and he was trying to get our heartless Lineman to get up and block somebody, NOBODY wants to win more then David Carr..............Once your off the band wagon your not getting back on.

A leader leads. If nobody is following, is he really leading? idonno:

I'm not down on Carr, as I can't blame this pathetic display of football on one player. It's a team meltdown, and everyone deserves equal blame, from the FO on down. 1-4 after 2-14 is indicative of deep problems with this organization, and I did not expect Kubiak to turn it around in one season. You can't fix futility overnight.

Runner
10-16-2006, 10:57 AM
You can't fix futility overnight.

But you can show improvement somewhere. We are having so many of the exact same problems it's stunning.

Kubiak had these players eating out of his hand when he arrived here. Now we are calling them quitters. Sure we have some bad players on the team, but the coaches aren't doing anything to instill confidence in what we have. Didn't the coaches say that if we lost this year we'd go down swinging?

An example. Remember the discussion about going for it at the end of the first half against Miami with two minutes to go? Many fans said it was the right decision to sit on the ball because we won. I still maintain that the coaches were being "quitters" and teaching the players the same in that instance.

Another thing is that many of us fans think the best players aren't on the field. Now we are frequently full of hot air, but I'd bet the players on the team see some of the same things and wonder where this coaching staff is leading.

Lucky
10-16-2006, 11:03 AM
The only ones I see with it are three players, Carr....Robinson....and Peek. Beyond that...you'll be hard-pressed to find another under the Texans roster.
DeMeco Ryans.

Honoring Earl 34
10-16-2006, 12:27 PM
I would consider Roger Clements the biggest gamer in this town . Any Texans resemble Clements ?

El Tejano
10-16-2006, 12:45 PM
Give me a break, he tongue lashed Andre Johnson ON the field after his 4th drop, and he was trying to get our heartless Lineman to get up and block somebody, NOBODY wants to win more then David Carr..............Once your off the band wagon your not getting back on.

I am not off any bandwagon. I know David Carr wants to win. I know he is not the reason we are 1-4. What I am saying here is that nobody is responding to anything he or anyone else does. Yesterday was the first time I saw David bark at anyone, its too late for that. But what i was talking about was the weeks coming before this game, and during the game when someone did something right, especially when we were in the game. Looked as if everyone was waiting for the bad stuff to happen.

As for Demeco Ryans, sometimes I want to apologize to him that we drafted him.

Cjeremy635
10-16-2006, 12:47 PM
Someone clear something up for me please. I jumped in the shower yesterday at the end of the game (to wash away the heartache) and when I got out I saw Sage in the game. I just assumed it was because we were getting blown out and it was garbage time. After the game we went to the Woddlands and I was listening to 610's fan feedback show. Anyways, they were going on and on about how Kubiak lit into Carr on the sideline and pulled him from the game. They said he had a "loser attitude" and that he had his shoulders slumped and that was why he was pulled. They continued to rag on him for a while and I don't know why. Everyone out there gave up. Why was he the only one pulled in that case? I saw Andre hang his head repeatedly after dropping the ball. I saw our secondary constantly being embarassed and aggrevated and not one of them was yanked from the game. Did something happen or were they just speculating? Someone clarify this for me if you can. :francis:

Vinny
10-16-2006, 12:49 PM
Check out Carr's body language when you replay the game...it was rotten. I didn't notice it much till it was pointed out by the Texans radio network guys....looking closer Carr just looked defeated and a bit of a shrinking violet when we had to overcome a Dallas lead. He looks great at the first of the game but once you have to pass to win and throw something down the field (passes that are actually not in front of the linebacker drops) we are done....same thing for 4 years....some things never change.

TheOgre
10-16-2006, 12:53 PM
It isn't just Carr, it seems to be the entire team. They have that "here we go again" look on their faces every time a big play goes against them.

TheOgre
10-16-2006, 12:54 PM
Anyone else feel like they are watching the Oilers from around 82-85?

Vinny
10-16-2006, 12:54 PM
It isn't just Carr, it seems to be the entire team. They have that "here we go again" look on their faces every time a big play goes against them.yeah, but if the guy holding the ball on every play looks whipped, you got no shot.

Errant Hothy
10-16-2006, 12:57 PM
yeah, but if the guy holding the ball on every play looks whipped, you got no shot.

and how sad is it that he is probally this team's MVP at the moment?

Cjeremy635
10-16-2006, 12:59 PM
Check out Carr's body language when you replay the game...it was rotten. I didn't notice it much till it was pointed out by the Texans radio network guys....looking closer Carr just looked defeated and a bit of a shrinking violet when we had to overcome a Dallas lead. He looks great at the first of the game but once you have to pass to win and throw something down the field (passes that are actually not in front of the linebacker drops) we are done....same thing for 4 years....some things never change.


Vinny, I saw that....honestly that isn't anything new. What was the turning point that made him get pulled is what I want to know? Maybe Kubiak wanted him to pull the team up and carry them. I don't think David is that kind of QB or ever will be. He isn't a "ralley around me guys" kind of player. I honestly feel bad for him and I have been a supporter for the most part. Having said that, I am leaning toward the side of letting Sage start a game. Not that I think that Sage is statistically better than Carr, but maybe he has the "X" factor that this team is lacking and maybe the troops will ralley around him. I know people react differently to different people and maybe they will react positively to him. I don't know what kind of leadership abilities he posses, but maybe they are superior to Carr's. I know one thing, Carr has never led this team down the field at the end of a game where the guys know without a shadow of a doubt that he can pull out a win repeatedly if they do their part because they know he will do his. Sage hasn't been put in that situation here so maybe they can be optomistic that he will lead them to a victory in the final minute if a game or something. I'm just talking out of my pie hole....:wild:

El Tejano
10-16-2006, 01:02 PM
Him saying it was his bad in the papers was a step.

Cjeremy635
10-16-2006, 01:02 PM
No different than a management job. Many people may have the knowledge/skills to do a certain position, but only a few can lead people to do their jobs to their maximum ability. That's why everyone isn't a manager and why everyone isn't a starting NFL QB.

nunusguy
10-16-2006, 01:11 PM
Interesting how the guys out to bash Carr today after his and the teams adversity yesterday in N.Texas were strangley silent in praise and largely absent from the Board after his last outing against Miami when most were passing out kudos for a solid performance by the beleaguered QB.

Cjeremy635
10-16-2006, 01:17 PM
Interesting how the guys out to bash Carr today after his and the teams adversity yesterday in N.Texas were strangley silent in praise and largely absent from the Board after his last outing against Miami when most were passing out kudos for a solid performance by the beleaguered QB.


Nun, I'm not bashing him at all. I think his play this year has been a complete 180 reversal from the past and I think that Kubiak has helped him improve a lot. That being said, you can't teach leadership abilities. People tend to ralley around alpha males for leadership. I don't know if David is one or not, but you can definately tend to point one out when the chips are down and they carry people to victory. I know, I'm one. I have that I can do anything mentality and I always pull through in the end. That's why I'm in management and why I'm successful.

El Tejano
10-16-2006, 01:19 PM
Interesting how the guys out to bash Carr today after his and the teams adversity yesterday in N.Texas were strangley silent in praise and largely absent from the Board after his last outing against Miami when most were passing out kudos for a solid performance by the beleaguered QB.

That's because we didn't see him give up.

nunusguy
10-16-2006, 01:35 PM
That being said, you can't teach leadership abilities. People tend to ralley around alpha males for leadership. I don't know if David is one or not, but you can definately tend to point one out when the chips are down and they carry people to victory. I know, I'm one. I have that I can do anything mentality and I always pull through in the end. That's why I'm in management and why I'm successful.
However successuf you may be (I'll have to take your word for it), your success couldn't rival your sense of humor. You're a funny guy, man !
I'm sorry Carr isn't a southern red neck with a chaw of Redman, or whatever your idea of an alpha male is.
But Carr can't catch his own passes, or block the Dline for his RBs.
I'm of that school of thought that beleives winners are leaders, and not vice versa. And the sport is not golf , its football. 11 guys on a team.

Cjeremy635
10-16-2006, 01:51 PM
However successuf you may be (I'll have to take your word for it), your success couldn't rival your sense of humor. You're a funny guy, man !
I'm sorry Carr isn't a southern red neck with a chaw of Redman, or whatever your idea of an alpha male is.
But Carr can't catch his own passes, or block the Dline for his RBs.
I'm of that school of thought that beleives winners are leaders, and not vice versa. And the sport is not golf , its football. 11 guys on a team.

LOL, I don't chew Redman...I dip Copenhagen :ok: ! That's not my idea of an "alpha male" FWIW. What I am saying is that people have to have a reason to believe in you. Being a natural born leader means that people gravitate to you and have faith that you can lead them in the right direction. I don't know David or what kind of leadership abilities he posses, but clearly the guys don't play 4 qtrs for him. I say him because that's what they are doing. Playing for him and his future as well as theirs. I would like to know what is being said in the huddles. If he chews them out when they do bad or gives them positive reinforcement. It's tough to draw a full conclusion without knowing everything that is said and done by the parties involved. I'm just suggesting that maybe a change will add a much needed spark. We changed running backs and it didn't help. We can't change receivers because what's on the bench is horrific. Like I said earlier, I don't think that Sage is a better passer than Carr but he may be a better leader and that might = wins.:shades:

Cjeremy635
10-16-2006, 01:55 PM
However successuf you may be (I'll have to take your word for it), your success couldn't rival your sense of humor. You're a funny guy, man !
I'm sorry Carr isn't a southern red neck with a chaw of Redman, or whatever your idea of an alpha male is.
But Carr can't catch his own passes, or block the Dline for his RBs.
I'm of that school of thought that beleives winners are leaders, and not vice versa. And the sport is not golf , its football. 11 guys on a team.

You made my argument for me. My sentiments exactly. Carr has not won so how can he lead us? To be is to do.....

Vinny
10-16-2006, 01:57 PM
You made my argument for me. My sentiments exactly. Carr has not won so how can he lead us? To be is to do.....
yep...The same way any franchise QB leads a team...taking control of a game.

nunusguy
10-16-2006, 02:13 PM
You made my argument for me. My sentiments exactly. Carr has not won so how can he lead us? To be is to do.....
And I went on to make the point that football is a team sport (11 members to be exact), as opposed to an individual sport like tennis or golf.
And the greatest QB of our time (or anytime IMO) and a winner, John Elway, in his prime could not lead this highly talent-challenged team to a winning season. And if you choose to argue that he could, I'll have to tell you your sense of humor is even more well developed than I thought.

footballguy69
10-16-2006, 02:15 PM
I did see Carr trying to get the offense to huddle quicker in the 2nd quarter. They seemed to be taking forever. I am starting to wonder a bit about our conditioning. Sure was a lot of cramps and tongues hanging out!:lightbulb:

Cjeremy635
10-16-2006, 02:26 PM
I did see Carr trying to get the offense to huddle quicker in the 2nd quarter. They seemed to be taking forever. I am starting to wonder a bit about our conditioning. Sure was a lot of cramps and tongues hanging out!:lightbulb:

I have a feeling we are going to be seeing a lot more "injuries" if we keep playing the way we have. No one is going to want to be a part of a losing team and if you think they are going to lose you aren't going to play throught the pain. Nun, I understand that you don't agree with my base argument. I am just saying that we need a spark to get things going and if you don't like my idea, what predict think will get us off the ground? Keep hacking away at what we are doing and we will be successful? We had that mentality last year and you see where it got us. I don't want us to wait around like that again. :brickwall

Vinny
10-16-2006, 03:41 PM
And I went on to make the point that football is a team sport (11 members to be exact), as opposed to an individual sport like tennis or golf.
And the greatest QB of our time (or anytime IMO) and a winner, John Elway, in his prime could not lead this highly talent-challenged team to a winning season. And if you choose to argue that he could, I'll have to tell you your sense of humor is even more well developed than I thought.

Talent like Elway is what brings fans to losing teams games over and over and gives them hope for the future to boot. That's why you always want that kind of thing....yeah, one guy doesn't get you there but from time to time you would like to watch a guy take over a game for your 75 bucks.

TexansSeminole
10-16-2006, 03:48 PM
Check out Carr's body language when you replay the game...it was rotten. I didn't notice it much till it was pointed out by the Texans radio network guys....looking closer Carr just looked defeated and a bit of a shrinking violet when we had to overcome a Dallas lead. He looks great at the first of the game but once you have to pass to win and throw something down the field (passes that are actually not in front of the linebacker drops) we are done....same thing for 4 years....some things never change.

I really believe we need a new guy at QB to spark this team. Look at what Gradkowski did this week.

Yesterday I tried to make this point and got absolutely bashed by half the board.

http://forums.houstontexans.com/showthread.php?t=29666

dtran04
10-16-2006, 03:55 PM
So I'm assuming that people also agree that Romo should start instead of Bledsoe? Bledsoe has been awful including the game yesterday. He has not "led" his team to any victories and Romo was pretty good in the preseason.

TexansSeminole
10-16-2006, 03:57 PM
So I'm assuming that people also agree that Romo should start instead of Bledsoe? Bledsoe has been awful including the game yesterday. He has not "led" his team to any victories and Romo was pretty good in the preseason.

Well the Cowboys are a playoff caliber team...and they are coming off a win, no they shouldn't change QBs.

The Texans however are 3-18 in their last 21 regular season games with Carr at QB.

Completely different situations.