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TPIMP
10-15-2006, 03:55 PM
Well at this point he should have learned that his almighty offensive system is not so great that it can overcome a poor OL and RB's that are other teams throw aways. The arrogance he showed in not selecting Bush has come back to bite him in the ass. Don't get me wrong his system is a good one but it still takes players of which the Texans do not have enough. Flanagan got killed today, Pitts struggled and Wiegert is below average. Salam is a decent backup but not even an average tackle. If you look accross the NFL, offenses are about as good as their lines measure up. The Texans line is below average and so is the offensive production.

Hulk75
10-15-2006, 04:00 PM
Well at this point he should have learned that his almighty offensive system is not so great that it can overcome a poor OL and RB's that are other teams throw aways. The arrogance he showed in not selecting Bush has come back to bite him in the ass. Don't get me wrong his system is a good one but it still takes players of which the Texans do not have enough. Flanagan got killed today, Pitts struggled and Wiegert is below average. Salam is a decent backup but not even an average tackle. If you look accross the NFL, offenses are about as good as their lines measure up. The Texans line is below average and so is the offensive production.

I hoped he is learning that you cant plugg any RB in to a Offense that is not ready for that yet. We dont have the dominate line like the Broncos had for years.
AND I Hope he has learned that just because you draft a guy like Terrell Davis in the later rounds DOES NOT! mean that he has 6th rd talent, if you put Davis back in the draft HEALTHY he does not drop that far!

SIDE NOTE********** Mario did a good job today, he really looks like he is getting it more and more, I saw some smart plays from him today.

Goldeagle
10-15-2006, 04:02 PM
Bush has shown nothing in N.O. as a RB. If not being hyped and the media not wanting to be wrong, he would be called a MAJOR bust other than his 3 yard catches and 4 yard runs.

THe O line is below average, but The Texans look better and I can only imagine how well we would be playing if a "Bruised" knee would not have sidelined DD all year (I mean, a BRUISED knee, not a BLOWN knee)?

infantrycak
10-15-2006, 04:02 PM
[B]
SIDE NOTE********** Mario did a good job today, he really looks like he is getting it more and more, I saw some smart plays from him today.

Mario did have a good game. He influenced plays frequently even if he didn't make the play. DeMeco is a beast as well.

run-david-run
10-15-2006, 04:04 PM
So you think throwing a $60M scat-back into the fire would have changed anything? We dont have the parts to build a great offense right now, so you imporve the things you can ie: passing game and defense. I think the defense has taken some good steps since the beginging of the season. 34 points dosnt refelct that, but they were put in bad situations time and time again. Give them an adequet offense and some luck and they will start refelcting it on the scoreboard. The one big complaint I have about them is the complete lack of turnovers, but a lot of that is luck.

sleepwalker
10-15-2006, 04:06 PM
We need some free agent moves, something......anything on that o-line would make me happy....In my opinion kubiak is doing everything he can to polish this turd of an offensive line with play calling, but it's just not going to be enough I'm afraid...We need more talent in this running game FAST or we won't win 3 games.

TPIMP
10-15-2006, 04:07 PM
Bush has shown nothing in N.O. as a RB. If not being hyped and the media not wanting to be wrong, he would be called a MAJOR bust other than his 3 yard catches and 4 yard runs.

THe O line is below average, but The Texans look better and I can only imagine how well we would be playing if a "Bruised" knee would not have sidelined DD all year (I mean, a BRUISED knee, not a BLOWN knee)?

You're not going to deny Bush would be upgrade over Dane...would you?

I liked Davis but he has been injury prone since his rookie season. He missed and game or more every season. The failure was not having a better plan B for a Davis injury.

infantrycak
10-15-2006, 04:11 PM
You're not going to deny Bush would be upgrade over Dane...would you?


Well it is hard to tell at this point. So far he has done jack crap behind a better run blocking OL. We should have been talking to TN for Travis Henry or some other team for a decisive RB. Or we could have had Jerius Norwood--yes that is hind sight but it is what it is. If you are going to play the Bush card then I'd say Mario and Norwood is a better combo than Bush and Winston.

TPIMP
10-15-2006, 04:15 PM
So you think throwing a $60M scat-back into the fire would have changed anything? We dont have the parts to build a great offense right now, so you imporve the things you can ie: passing game and defense. I think the defense has taken some good steps since the beginging of the season. 34 points dosnt refelct that, but they were put in bad situations time and time again. Give them an adequet offense and some luck and they will start refelcting it on the scoreboard. The one big complaint I have about them is the complete lack of turnovers, but a lot of that is luck.

Bush is not a scat-back. All I will say is Bush would have had a better effect on our offense than Mario has had on our defense. I'm ok with the Marion selection because I think it will be the better long term decision. But the day of the draft Kubiak said very arrogantly "now it's up to me to score enough points to win". Ok! Then it's on you! Learn from it.

OzzO
10-15-2006, 04:19 PM
He's learned that he worked on defense last draft and offense is next year's focus. I'm still good with the picks this year.

infantrycak
10-15-2006, 04:21 PM
Bush is not a scat-back.

So far you are right--he isn't a RB at all.

All I will say is Bush would have had a better effect on our offense than Mario has had on our defense.

Sadly his poor 3 ypc might have been a tremendous improvement on our pathetic running game--actually not but hey to give you one. By the way--no one on our team is averaging as little per reception as Bush no matter how many passes are thrown his way.

nunusguy
10-15-2006, 04:22 PM
Mario did have a good game. He influenced plays frequently even if he didn't make the play. DeMeco is a beast as well.
Maybe no sacks and still making his share of rookie mistakes, but Mario was very active today and I think with the Miami game and today he's now starting to show some real progress in his rookie year. And DeMeco is very impressive again.
Arguably the greatest running back to come out of Texas, Earl Campbell, would have been ineffective behind this Oline against this Defense today.
And Reggie Bush, give me a break. I'm now convinced that there's atleast 3 or 4 rookie running backs in the NFL this year who are better than Bush and would help us more than Reggie Boy.

BlueThunder
10-15-2006, 04:25 PM
Its a long way to the top and it may be time for a QB change...Players that can't hold onto the football don't play?

We have played 5 games and Carr can get to 500 only by winning 3 games in a roll...This year should be about finding the right QB TO LEAD THIS TEAM and its getting close to finding out if Rosenfield can do any better..

The offense seam to have a good base but we just need high energy talent.The defense really don't look as far away as it did before..

What do you guys think if working a deal on T.O and drafting Peterson..As long as you understand T.O,respect him when he seize he is injured and give him his due because of what he does on the field he can be a real difference maker...Him and Adrain Peterson would be a major boost for this team....Trade Mounds for him?and a 3rd!T.O was called out in the media for missing a meeting and it has got the wheel churning.Keep an eye on things because Parcells won't give in even if he was in the wrong.He thinks he has better talent behind T.O and thats the whole problem.They may even take Carr but thats GM stuff to work out and i'm sure ours will keep workong to reduce our cap and upgrading talent.

TPIMP
10-15-2006, 04:26 PM
So far you are right--he isn't a RB at all.



Sadly his poor 3 ypc might have been a tremendous improvement on our pathetic running game--actually not but hey to give you one. By the way--no one on our team is averaging as little per reception as Bush no matter how many passes are thrown his way.

Hard to imagine why Bush was even drafted?

infantrycak
10-15-2006, 04:27 PM
Wait--let me look outside--yup big wet snowflakes--must mean Carr was the biggest problem today and the solution for the team is TO plus Sage. Holy Madre de Jesus folks have lost their minds.

nunusguy
10-15-2006, 04:28 PM
Its a long way to the top and it may be time for a QB change...Players that can't hold onto the football don't play?


David Carr was not the problem today.

infantrycak
10-15-2006, 04:29 PM
Hard to imagine why Bush was even drafted?

Nice response--make a case for how he would be improving the Texans right now. He has shown dick in NO on a much better team so how would he have improved Houston with his 3 runs inside the tackles and tons of receptions which would have had to have come from longer ones taken by AJ and Moulds?

TPIMP
10-15-2006, 04:30 PM
What do you guys think if working a deal on T.O!

I can't even respond to that? :yikes:

thunderkyss
10-15-2006, 04:33 PM
So you think throwing a $60M scat-back into the fire would have changed anything? We dont have the parts to build a great offense right now, so you imporve the things you can ie: passing game and defense.

We are still in the first half of the season, of Kubiaks first season as our head coach. We knew we had problems, OL being one of them. We gave Kubiak the benefit of the doubt, when he didn't make drastic personnell changes on the OL.

I hate to say this, but we need to give him a little more time, before we settle on doing what we"can do well"....

After watching the Miami game a few times, I could see plays, were only one person playing better, would have drastically changed our rushing production. It wasn't always the same guy. Sometimes it was the RG, sometimes the TE, sometimes the RB.

But they all looked correctable, and I honestly thought we were close to blowing up our rushing attack. I need to go back & watch the Dallas game, to see if we are making the same mistakes, if we were being overpowered by more talented players, or just stronger meaner players.

but..... one thing I know for sure, these guys would not get another day off for the rest of the season...... not even tuesdays...... Especially not the OLine.

Runner
10-15-2006, 04:35 PM
I don't know what he's learned.

Over the bye week the coaches said they were going to make changes. What did we change? Did any of the starter jobs switch hands? The play calling? Any schemes?


The coaches might need to look at what they are doing. There is room for improvement there. They need to evaluate if what consitutes value in a player in their minds actually translates well onto the field.

TPIMP
10-15-2006, 04:42 PM
Nice response--make a case for how he would be improving the Texans right now. He has shown dick in NO on a much better team so how would he have improved Houston with his 3 runs inside the tackles and tons of receptions which would have had to have come from longer ones taken by AJ and Moulds?

Infantrycak I respect your opinion on this one. I defend the Mario pick all the time and I still think it was the best choice. But Bush is a good player and may be very good one day. Stats do not tell the whole story. His presence has helped the Saints offense. He gets the attention of the defense. Duece has had room to run and Brees has had time to throw. The saints have better players on the OL than the Texans. But I would say the Texans have better receivers. Unfortunatly defenses are not at all concerned with our running game. Bush doesn't fix our running game but he is a huge upgrade over Dayne and at a minimum he adds a few more yards to the dump offs we are forced into. To me it's not as much a Bush vs Mario discussion as much as RB vs DL pick. We need better RB's. But aside from this piont we need an improved OL.

infantrycak
10-15-2006, 04:44 PM
Infantrycak I respect your opinion on this one. I defend the Mario pick all the time and I still think it was the best choice. But Bush is a good player and may be very good one day. Stats do not tell the whole story. His presence has helped the Saints offense. He gets the attention of the defense. Duece has had room to run and Brees has had time to throw. The saints have better players on the OL than the Texans. But I would say the Texans have better receivers. Unfortunatly defenses are not at all concerned with our running game. Bush doesn't fix our running game but he is a huge upgrade over Dayne and at a minimum he adds a few more yards to the dump offs we are forced into. To me it's not as much a Bush vs Mario discussion as much as RB vs DL pick. We need better RB's. But aside from this piont we need an improved OL.

I agree we need better RB's. I just think folks need to look less at Bush and more at folks like Maurice Jones-Drew and Jerius Norwood. Either of those guys would be a tremendous upgrade--the latter losing a bench player for a starter.

BlueThunder
10-15-2006, 04:45 PM
Mario is going to be a beast!!The guy can play sideline to sideline..:redtowel:


GREAT 1ST PICK!

LETS DO IT AGAIN

(( RB ADRAIN PETERSON ))

HoustonFan
10-15-2006, 04:51 PM
Mario is gonna be alright.

I'm hoping that Kubiak is REALIZING that the strengh of the offense is in the air, and not w/ the run.

TPIMP
10-15-2006, 04:52 PM
I agree we need better RB's. I just think folks need to look less at Bush and more at folks like Maurice Jones-Drew and Jerius Norwood. Either of those guys would be a tremendous upgrade--the latter losing a bench player for a starter.

It's was rummored the Texans were trying to get Deangelo Williams on draft day. But if that had happened they would not have been able to get Ryans. They should not have waited to the day before the draft to choose Mario. That forced them to put all of their eggs in the DD basket.

Back to the initial thought of this thread, I hope we do not rely on DD again. And I hope Kubiak does not think he can find another 6th round sleeper. I hope we address RB early in next years draft.

Scooter
10-15-2006, 05:12 PM
Well at this point he should have learned that his almighty offensive system is not so great that it can overcome a poor OL and RB's that are other teams throw aways. The arrogance he showed in not selecting Bush has come back to bite him in the ass. Don't get me wrong his system is a good one but it still takes players of which the Texans do not have enough. Flanagan got killed today, Pitts struggled and Wiegert is below average. Salam is a decent backup but not even an average tackle. If you look accross the NFL, offenses are about as good as their lines measure up. The Texans line is below average and so is the offensive production.

1. we're barely even using kubiak's run blocking system. i see a lot more "power" blocking that green bay uses than kubiak's "zone" blocking which we saw almost exclusively during preseason. TC mentioned it a while back and i'm in full agreement that we're poorly mixing the systems.

2. even barry sanders doesnt have any success with the lack of lanes we opened up today. reggie bush does NOT help this team.

3. our defense is worse than our offense, and will be during next year's draft. kubiak is going to look very hard at best defensive player available next year also, get used to it because that's what denver's had a lot of success with. until we get up to par on defense, it wont matter what "best player ever" we've got on offense. look at kubiak's former team. the defense is able to carry them even when the offense struggles.

4. the offensive line i'm in agreement with. my patience wore out last season. we need dramatic changes. offer orlando pace and randy thomas 100mil each and first day draft picks in trade. we will NEVER win until we win the battle in the trenches. our big uglies on the defensive side (despite popular opinion) are pretty solid, we're just hurting everywhere else. offensive side is still arguably the worst in football ... this year they just switched what area they suck most at.

phan1
10-15-2006, 07:29 PM
Dude, will you look at Bush's YPC right now? Trust me, he couldn't even beat out Dayne as our starting runningback right now. Unless we plan on dumping it out to him in the flats DD style every time he's in, he wouldn't be able to do anything on the ground.

OzzO
10-15-2006, 08:00 PM
oh, he's also learned that the Denver style of o-line run block doesn't mesh well with GB style of o-line run block.

Turbo
10-15-2006, 08:13 PM
I think Gary Kubiak should do like Mike Ditka did in a press conference in the late 1980s and say, "I doubt if this team will win another game this season".

TexanLen
10-15-2006, 08:51 PM
The O-line is a huge issue. They concentrated so much on pass blocking that they forgot how to run block. The Dallas D had no sacks today. The QB and receivers are good. The RB position is non existant. I think it is a mistake to mix the GB philosophy with the Denver philosophy.

The D-line has issues, but Mario will be a Julius Pepper's in due time. I was impressed with his quickness and alertness today. He was in Bledsoe's face quite a few times. Demeco Ryans will be a fixture for this franchise. He reminds me of "The Quiet Assasin" of the Oilers. The other LB's need to be looked at. The secondary is horrible. Dunta is ok, but everyone else needs to be re-evaluated.

1-15. Jimmy Johnson's record with the Cowboys when he first came into the league. We know what he has done from there with the Cowboys.

Time will tell.

tsip
10-15-2006, 09:34 PM
IMO, Kubiak is shaking his head and wandering what he got himself into, as being the HC has not 'blossomed' for Gary like many people thought it would. A preseason poll of which new HC would have the best results with their new team placed Kubiak at or near the top-instead, he ranks at the bottom with Edwards and Shell.

However, speaking from a fan perspective, I'll be the first to admit that I'm shell shocked and dumb founded by Kubiak's failure/lack of any kind of success on the field so far. The Texans results under Kubiak not only 'mirror' Capers, but some are actually worse. Too, I'm not talking about wins here either-I'm talking about play/results on the field.

IMO, Kubiaks biggest problems are a direct result of him not adhering to his own 'press clippings' of how he would run the team. First, players are not being put in the best situations to succeed. For example, our blocking style does not match our RBs. Secondly, we have not put the best players on the field because we have made poor player selections/evaluations. It appears that Gary has been over rated as a judge of talent, as much of the team is unsettled with deficiencies everywhere. RB and DB are nowhere near the 'comfort zone' that Kubiak thought they were going into the season.

Third, our game planning leaves a lot to be desired and has the same results as the previous regimes, with us being one of the lowest scoring teams in the league. And, adjustments to the game plan? Not. We go into the club house at the half and come out and score ZERO points in the 3rd qtr in every single game so far this year. Today, we are scoreless the entire 2nd half and score a whopping 6 pts the entire game.

Fourth, Kubiak said we would play to win. OK. When do we start? On the rare occasion we've had the lead this year, we've set on it. Today, with a first down on the one--despite no success running the ball--we run up the 'gut' twice--no boot leg, no roll out, no imagination. We get a FG and sit on it till Dallas KO's and we get a run back and kick another FG....

We just spent 4 yrs playing the 'you don't score, we won't score game,' and it got us an 18-46 record. Now, here we are AGAIN. We're averaging 14pts a game and we have given up more points this year than last, so how many games will we win the rest of this year with this scenario?

What has Kubiak learned? It's all about scoring more points than the other team. Maybe it's just me, but I don't think counting on the other team not to score because we're not is going to win many games---at least it hasn't since our 'day one.'....maybe Gary has learned that it 'ain't gonna be a cake walk.':wild: :yahoo: :brickwall

Runner
10-15-2006, 10:13 PM
However, speaking from a fan perspective, I'll be the first to admit that I'm shell shocked and dumb founded by Kubiak's failure/lack of any kind of success on the field so far. The Texans results under Kubiak not only 'mirror' Capers, but some are actually worse. Too, I'm not talking about wins here either-I'm talking about play/results on the field.

IMO, Kubiaks biggest problems are a direct result of him not adhering to his own 'press clippings' of how he would run the team. First, players are not being put in the best situations to succeed. For example, our blocking style does not match our RBs. Secondly, we have not put the best players on the field because we have made poor player selections/evaluations. It appears that Gary has been over rated as a judge of talent, as much of the team is unsettled with deficiencies everywhere. RB and DB are nowhere near the 'comfort zone' that Kubiak thought they were going into the season.

Third, our game planning leaves a lot to be desired and has the same results as the previous regimes, with us being one of the lowest scoring teams in the league. And, adjustments to the game plan? Not. We go into the club house at the half and come out and score ZERO points in the 3rd qtr in every single game so far this year. Today, we are scoreless the entire 2nd half and score a whopping 6 pts the entire game.

Fourth, Kubiak said we would play to win. OK. When do we start? On the rare occasion we've had the lead this year, we've set on it. Today, with a first down on the one--despite no success running the ball--we run up the 'gut' twice--no boot leg, no roll out, no imagination. We get a FG and sit on it till Dallas KO's and we get a run back and kick another FG....


I'm starting to believe that coaches spend too much time trying to be smart, cute, and tricky and think themselves into brain lock. They get an idea into their heads and can't see the downsides of their decisions, even if it is displayed week after week.

We went into the bye week to study what was wrong with the team and to make some changes. What did we do? Cut Bennie Joppru and sign a second string fullback? That is quite the limited impact move, but at least it didn't involve the coaches admitting they may have made some mistakes.

Texanfan4ever
10-15-2006, 10:25 PM
Its a long way to the top and it may be time for a QB change...Players that can't hold onto the football don't play?

We have played 5 games and Carr can get to 500 only by winning 3 games in a roll...This year should be about finding the right QB TO LEAD THIS TEAM and its getting close to finding out if Rosenfield can do any better..

The offense seam to have a good base but we just need high energy talent.The defense really don't look as far away as it did before..

What do you guys think if working a deal on T.O and drafting Peterson..As long as you understand T.O,respect him when he seize he is injured and give him his due because of what he does on the field he can be a real difference maker...Him and Adrain Peterson would be a major boost for this team....Trade Mounds for him?and a 3rd!T.O was called out in the media for missing a meeting and it has got the wheel churning.Keep an eye on things because Parcells won't give in even if he was in the wrong.He thinks he has better talent behind T.O and thats the whole problem.They may even take Carr but thats GM stuff to work out and i'm sure ours will keep workong to reduce our cap and upgrading talent.


Good Grief!!! WHAT are YOU drinking???

Hervoyel
10-15-2006, 10:47 PM
You're not going to deny Bush would be upgrade over Dane...would you?

I don't know if he will but I'll be glad to. Reggie Bush wouldn't be impressing anyone behind our offensive line. Drafting him and trying to lean on him the way we will Dayne and Gado would be like Capers and Palmer drafting Carr and then making him take every snap in 2002 behind that abortion we called a line.

It would accomplish nothing and adversely affect the development of the player. As far as this season is concerned guys like Dayne and Gado (and even Lundy) are what you want on our team. They're placeholders because somebody has to carry the ball while these clowns learn to block.

phan1
10-15-2006, 11:39 PM
I for one would say Dayne would be a better runningback than Bush behind our Oline. There are no holes in our offensive line to run through; you might as well give it to someone who's going to fall foward. Hell, I'd take DD over bush right now. Again, look a Bush's YPC. They pale in comparison to Deuce, and all the critics saying he was too small obviously have a good point. Anyone on that team can tell you Deuce is more important than Bush right now.

C'mon, even if he is an upgrade to Dayne, you want to spend your 1st pick on a RB who's not going to have hole to run through rather than a potential stud DE who's starting to show his true colors alreadY? Puh-lease.

painekiller
10-15-2006, 11:43 PM
Well at this point he should have learned that his almighty offensive system is not so great that it can overcome a poor OL and RB's that are other teams throw aways. The arrogance he showed in not selecting Bush has come back to bite him in the ass. Don't get me wrong his system is a good one but it still takes players of which the Texans do not have enough. Flanagan got killed today, Pitts struggled and Wiegert is below average. Salam is a decent backup but not even an average tackle. If you look accross the NFL, offenses are about as good as their lines measure up. The Texans line is below average and so is the offensive production.

Tell me again why Reggie the WR/PR, would make us a better running team? Bush is not a NFL running back at this time. He would not be making us a better running team.

TPIMP
10-16-2006, 12:00 AM
IMO, Kubiak is shaking his head and wandering what he got himself into, as being the HC has not 'blossomed' for Gary like many people thought it would. A preseason poll of which new HC would have the best results with their new team placed Kubiak at or near the top-instead, he ranks at the bottom with Edwards and Shell.

However, speaking from a fan perspective, I'll be the first to admit that I'm shell shocked and dumb founded by Kubiak's failure/lack of any kind of success on the field so far. The Texans results under Kubiak not only 'mirror' Capers, but some are actually worse. Too, I'm not talking about wins here either-I'm talking about play/results on the field.

IMO, Kubiaks biggest problems are a direct result of him not adhering to his own 'press clippings' of how he would run the team. First, players are not being put in the best situations to succeed. For example, our blocking style does not match our RBs. Secondly, we have not put the best players on the field because we have made poor player selections/evaluations. It appears that Gary has been over rated as a judge of talent, as much of the team is unsettled with deficiencies everywhere. RB and DB are nowhere near the 'comfort zone' that Kubiak thought they were going into the season.

Third, our game planning leaves a lot to be desired and has the same results as the previous regimes, with us being one of the lowest scoring teams in the league. And, adjustments to the game plan? Not. We go into the club house at the half and come out and score ZERO points in the 3rd qtr in every single game so far this year. Today, we are scoreless the entire 2nd half and score a whopping 6 pts the entire game.

Fourth, Kubiak said we would play to win. OK. When do we start? On the rare occasion we've had the lead this year, we've set on it. Today, with a first down on the one--despite no success running the ball--we run up the 'gut' twice--no boot leg, no roll out, no imagination. We get a FG and sit on it till Dallas KO's and we get a run back and kick another FG....

We just spent 4 yrs playing the 'you don't score, we won't score game,' and it got us an 18-46 record. Now, here we are AGAIN. We're averaging 14pts a game and we have given up more points this year than last, so how many games will we win the rest of this year with this scenario?

What has Kubiak learned? It's all about scoring more points than the other team. Maybe it's just me, but I don't think counting on the other team not to score because we're not is going to win many games---at least it hasn't since our 'day one.'....maybe Gary has learned that it 'ain't gonna be a cake walk.':wild: :yahoo: :brickwall

Good observations. I agree.

Ibar_Harry
10-16-2006, 12:04 AM
Nothing!!!

Ibar_Harry
10-16-2006, 12:05 AM
Perhaps this question should be rephrased. What has McNair learned. Same answer. Nothing!!!!

TPIMP
10-16-2006, 12:07 AM
Tell me again why Reggie the WR/PR, would make us a better running team? Bush is not a NFL running back at this time. He would not be making us a better running team.

Maybe you should read my post before you quote it?

tsip
10-16-2006, 01:51 AM
I'm not sure where to put this line of thought but what happened to our 'vertical' passing game today? Carr avg less than 5 ypa!! Sure, some of that would be expected because of using the pass in place of the run, but not stretching the field at all--or even trying??!!

Another point. From our lack of game planning (including adjustments), it's obvious our coaching staff can not anticipate what the other team might do in the 2ND half, so that we can stay competitive. Kubiak even admitted after the Eagles game that he was caught totally off-guard.

The thoughts/concerns we are expressing on this board are--for the most part-- 'everyday stuff' in the NFL. Every NFL team experiences the same problems/situations/challenges/injuries/etc.--what's not the same is 'how' each team deals with these things. IMO, Kubiak needs to find and open himself a 'big can of HOW.':wild:

Scooter
10-16-2006, 02:05 AM
I'm not sure where to put this line of thought but what happened to our 'vertical' passing game today? Carr avg less than 5 ypa!! Sure, some of that would be expected because of using the pass in place of the run, but not stretching the field at all--or even trying??!!

it's way past my bedtime so i wont give a full response, but it was mentioned on the radio during the post-game report that we spent a lot of time running deep posts and long seam passes to expose roy williams and their cover 2 sets during practice. why we didnt see anything remotely like that during the game is beyond me.

DocBar
10-16-2006, 09:18 AM
I'm really surprised at the state of our team. IMO, our biggest problems are at RB, horrendous secondary play and poor coaching. How many times have RB's just run into the pile when they could've cut back or bounced it outside. Are they scared they'll end up traded or cut if they make more than one cut?
Our secondary are consistently being burned and when not burned, aren't exactly putting any fear into QB's or WR's. Dallas had a 3rd & 20 yesterday and got 15 on a run!!! Teams don't care about 1st & 2nd down 'cause they can convert just about any distance on 3rd at will. I would rather lose the game through 5 INT's TRYING to make big plays instead of 2 yd runs trying to establish some semblence of a running game. JMHO!!!
:twocents:

thunderkyss
10-16-2006, 09:54 AM
The O-line is a huge issue. They concentrated so much on pass blocking that they forgot how to run block. The Dallas D had no sacks today. The QB and receivers are good. The RB position is non existant. I think it is a mistake to mix the GB philosophy with the Denver philosophy.

The D-line has issues, but Mario will be a Julius Pepper's in due time. I was impressed with his quickness and alertness today. He was in Bledsoe's face quite a few times. Demeco Ryans will be a fixture for this franchise. He reminds me of "The Quiet Assasin" of the Oilers. The other LB's need to be looked at. The secondary is horrible. Dunta is ok, but everyone else needs to be re-evaluated.

1-15. Jimmy Johnson's record with the Cowboys when he first came into the league. We know what he has done from there with the Cowboys.

Time will tell.

This is going to sound stupid, & I'm sure a lot of people don't want to hear it. but IMHO, this is a classic case of a runningback making a poor offensive line look better than they really were.

I agree that DD does not, and never did have the talent of a JuliusJones, or a ClintonPortis, or a LadanianTomlinson... not even a JamalLewis. But the kid had heart, and he could play football.

I seriously doubt that he would've made this team any better, but with him, you never know, & you won't know till he gets on the field.

thunderkyss
10-16-2006, 10:34 AM
IMO, Kubiak is shaking his head and wandering what he got himself into, as being the HC has not 'blossomed' for Gary like many people thought it would. A preseason poll of which new HC would have the best results with their new team placed Kubiak at or near the top-instead, he ranks at the bottom with Edwards and Shell.

That's the problem with doing the right thing. You often do it alone.

I'm not a Herman Edwards fan, but I have to agree with what he is doing in KC. & the same thing goes for Gary Kubiak. The results might not show up this season, but he is teaching them to play the right way.

It makes no sense to think up a game plan to fit your players, hiding their defieciencies, and rely-ing on outstanding play form a few individuals to get you a win or two. then when you experience injuries after week two, then week three, then week four, etc.... you have to chunk the rest of your season, and get ready for next season like Philadelphia did last year.

I'd rather do things the Denver way, teach everybody how to do things the right way. Then when you have your share of injuries, nobody even notices.

IMO, Kubiaks biggest problems are a direct result of him not adhering to his own 'press clippings' of how he would run the team. First, players are not being put in the best situations to succeed. For example, our blocking style does not match our RBs. Secondly, we have not put the best players on the field because we have made poor player selections/evaluations. It appears that Gary has been over rated as a judge of talent, as much of the team is unsettled with deficiencies everywhere. RB and DB are nowhere near the 'comfort zone' that Kubiak thought they were going into the season.

He took our blocking back to the basics for game one. Actually, since the third preseason game. If you watched our guys Sunday, they looked a lot more synchronized, and for the most part, moving together. This week, in my guesstimation, was the first week that we were more Denver than GB in our OL blocking assignments. DemarcusWare, GregEllis, & JayRatliff didn't sniff Carr all game, and he barely ran any bootlegs.

Running the ball, our guys looked like they knew what to do, as they were all in position to make a play, they just weren't aggressive enough, or they took bad angles on their blocks. I suspect pretty soon, they will show us what Gary Kubiaks ZBS is.

Third, our game planning leaves a lot to be desired and has the same results as the previous regimes, with us being one of the lowest scoring teams in the league. And, adjustments to the game plan? Not. We go into the club house at the half and come out and score ZERO points in the 3rd qtr in every single game so far this year. Today, we are scoreless the entire 2nd half and score a whopping 6 pts the entire game.

First, we are playing the Dallas Cowboys. Another highly rated defense, and we went into the game one dimensional.

Fourth, Kubiak said we would play to win. OK. When do we start? On the rare occasion we've had the lead this year, we've set on it. Today, with a first down on the one--despite no success running the ball--we run up the 'gut' twice--no boot leg, no roll out, no imagination. We get a FG and sit on it till Dallas KO's and we get a run back and kick another FG....

You do know the plan wasn't to kick a field goal don't you?? the idea was to score a TD. I agree the playcalling could've been better, but we were trying to score TDs.

We just spent 4 yrs playing the 'you don't score, we won't score game,' and it got us an 18-46 record. Now, here we are AGAIN. We're averaging 14pts a game and we have given up more points this year than last, so how many games will we win the rest of this year with this scenario?

I understand your frustration, but I don't think you can bring the last 4 years into a Kubiak discussion. Kubiak's last 4 years didn't go anything like this, and he's been one to run the score up, and dominate on offense.

Yesterday, he was pushing the ball upfield with the only thing he had to work with, and it bit him in the ass. We never crossed the 50 yard line in the second half, because of mistakes we made on the field.

We continued throwing the ball every chance we got, so it's not like he ever conceded the game.

Even though he did put Sage in the game, something Capers may never have done.

What has Kubiak learned? It's all about scoring more points than the other team. Maybe it's just me, but I don't think counting on the other team not to score because we're not is going to win many games---at least it hasn't since our 'day one.'....maybe Gary has learned that it 'ain't gonna be a cake walk.':wild: :yahoo: :brickwall
I think Gary learned that our guys are a lot worse than he thought, and he's had to go back to teaching them how to block. He's teaching them to play the right way. In the long run, it's the best thing a coach can do in his situation.

thunderkyss
10-16-2006, 10:41 AM
it's way past my bedtime so i wont give a full response, but it was mentioned on the radio during the post-game report that we spent a lot of time running deep posts and long seam passes to expose roy williams and their cover 2 sets during practice. why we didnt see anything remotely like that during the game is beyond me.

What get's me, is that we had GregEllis & RoyWilliams in press coverage many times, and didn't act on it.

There were no audibles, or anything at the line. We broke huddle, lined up, and ran the play..... maybe that had something to do with the stage our offense is at right now, but we missed a lot of opportunities.