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TexansSeminole
10-15-2006, 04:16 PM
I have come to the conclusion that Carr has no leadership skills at all. I see him in interviews talking and sometimes I am embarassed for our team because its almost like a joke. On the field, he never rallies the guys and makes a statement. I just really dont think we are going anywhere with this QB.

I am watching Gradkowski for the Bucs lead his team downfield. Down by 6. He just scored the game winning touchdown agaisnt the BENGALS, with a 0-5 team. His teamates are hugging him and really letting him take them to the win.

Hervoyel
10-15-2006, 04:18 PM
I think that much of the Texans fanbase holds a degree in "Wrong Tree Barking" but that's just me.

MrMeToo
10-15-2006, 04:19 PM
Sage>Carr.....







today.

infantrycak
10-15-2006, 04:21 PM
I think that much of the Texans fanbase holds a degree in "Wrong Tree Barking" but that's just me.


For the love of God--so the DB's can't cover anyone, the RB's can't paddy cake a hole much less hit one, AJ while a great WR still has a hard time knowing a football is to be caught and it is Carr's leadership today. Yeah, OK. Geez, the wrong tree must have mistletoe all over it.

rmartin65
10-15-2006, 04:21 PM
Look, nobody on the team did anything. No defense, no run game. In this offense, the run is to set up the pass. Without the run, the pass goes no where. Carr has had a pretty good season before this game. Lets see how he bounces back.

thunderkyss
10-15-2006, 04:22 PM
Carr didn't get sacked, he got hit, maybe 3 times. we have tightends, & 2 #1 Widerecievers. RBs that can catch the ball out of the backfield, but he didn't get it done.

He stared down AJ on the pass that was intercepted...

but I won't blame this loss on Carr. OUr lack of a running game(OLine, not RBs) made us one dimensional from the get go.

We can't blame the defense....... the field was way too short on each scoring drive. We can't blame play selection.......

This loss lays squarely on the shoulders of our offense.

Wolf
10-15-2006, 04:24 PM
can anyone find any MORE excuses to hate on Carr?


PLEASE..lets get a thread with ALL OF THEM ..

bigcarlos
10-15-2006, 04:24 PM
I have come to the conclusion that Carr has no leadership skills at all. I see him in interviews talking and sometimes I am embarassed for our team because its almost like a joke. On the field, he never rallies the guys and makes a statement. I just really dont think we are going anywhere with this QB.

I am watching Gradkowski for the Bucs lead his team downfield. Down by 6. He just scored the game winning touchdown agaisnt the BENGALS, with a 0-5 team. His teamates are hugging him and really letting him take them to the win.

True

noxiousdog
10-15-2006, 04:25 PM
wow sage got close to the one yard line against dallas. How far did Carr go?

I'm sure you gave Carr's early season 4th quarter drives equal credence?

Wolf
10-15-2006, 04:25 PM
wow sage got close to the one yard line against dallas. How far did Carr go?


for crying out loud, it was 34-6 .. Dallas wasn't really worried about us coming back on them by then.. not to take anything away from Sage, but Dallas was in the "don't give up a quick score mode" (if that at all)

TPIMP
10-15-2006, 04:26 PM
wow sage got close to the one yard line against dallas. How far did Carr go?

To the ONE YARD LINE on the first drive and they couldn't run it in from there! They failed to convert 3rd and 1 three times trying to run. That is not Carr's fault.

Wolf
10-15-2006, 04:26 PM
I'm sure you gave Carr's early season 4th quarter drives equal credence?

exactly.. Sage's stats are "GARBAGE stats"

Wolf
10-15-2006, 04:27 PM
if I recall Carr led the Texans to the one yard line early in the game but NO running game could get them in.

sleepwalker
10-15-2006, 04:28 PM
This loss had everything to do with absolutely no running game...To try and say that it was Carr's responsibility to lead his crappy-talentless offense line to open some holes to run through is ridiculous.

Give me a @#$@#% break.

noxiousdog
10-15-2006, 04:28 PM
To the ONE YARD LINE on the first drive and they couldn't run it in from there! They failed to convert 3rd and 1 three times trying to run. That is not Carr's fault.

Please. With any other quarterback Dayne and Gado would have like 10 yards per carry. Carr has the motivational skillz of Eyeore :sarcasm:

infantrycak
10-15-2006, 04:29 PM
wow sage got close to the one yard line against dallas. How far did Carr go?

Ummmm DUHHHHH? The one yard line on the opening drive where an even half way competent rushing game would have poked it in. Care to play again?

Anyone that doesn't point to 19 yards on 14 attempts as the great failure of this game is a moron.

texflex513
10-15-2006, 04:31 PM
Carr didn't get sacked, he got hit, maybe 3 times. we have tightends, & 2 #1 Widerecievers. RBs that can catch the ball out of the backfield, but he didn't get it done.

He stared down AJ on the pass that was intercepted...

but I won't blame this loss on Carr. OUr lack of a running game(OLine, not RBs) made us one dimensional from the get go.

We can't blame the defense....... the field was way too short on each scoring drive. We can't blame play selection.......

This loss lays squarely on the shoulders of our offense.


i agree 100%

Mr teX
10-15-2006, 04:35 PM
I have come to the conclusion that Carr has no leadership skills at all. I see him in interviews talking and sometimes I am embarassed for our team because its almost like a joke. On the field, he never rallies the guys and makes a statement. I just really dont think we are going anywhere with this QB.

I am watching Gradkowski for the Bucs lead his team downfield. Down by 6. He just scored the game winning touchdown agaisnt the BENGALS, with a 0-5 team. His teamates are hugging him and really letting him take them to the win.

And here we go...........................

Hulk75
10-15-2006, 04:35 PM
Let me try to end this stupid thread...............David Carr was your leading rusher today!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Hey lets not forget the balls that Andre dropped today, I am tired of him going under the radar, MAKE A PLAY WHEN YOUR TEAM NEEDS YOU!, NOT just jump balls and wide open balls, catch the hard ones, SICK AND TIRED of watching him drop balls over and over.

This is a stupid thread, talk about stuff that makes sense! Critique all you want BUT Carr has NOTHING TO DO with the run game after the ball leaves his hand into the RBs.

We need a running back now NOT another 300lbs RB KuBES! Take some draft picks and find a RB! There ARE HOLES AND CUT BACK LANES for the tailbacks, are big guys just stick their heads down in the back of our lineman and grind out yards............CRAP!............. sorry, NO you know what I am not sorry.

Marcus
10-15-2006, 04:40 PM
I think that much of the Texans fanbase holds a degree in "Wrong Tree Barking" but that's just me.
Boy, you aren't kidding. With a fanbase so ignorant, does one see why I get in trouble all the time cracking on other posters?:brickwall

Mr teX
10-15-2006, 04:42 PM
Boy, you aren't kidding. With a fanbase so ignorant, does one see why I get in trouble all the time cracking on other posters?:brickwall

Not at all, I'm tempted at times to just air some of these "fans" out but i know it would do absolutely nothing.

Dr. Toro
10-15-2006, 04:48 PM
It's not on Carr, but there need to be some wholesale changes on this squad. I have no easy solutions, but staying the course isn't working. The running game is brutal, and the backs aren't necessarily helping. It's so easy to blame the line, because they are a collective bunch of big fat guys that don't do anything that shows up on the stat sheet... but blame goes all around. DB's, pass rush, play calling, O-Line, QB, WR's, RB's. Stating the obvious, but brutal loss.

Goldeagle
10-15-2006, 04:51 PM
Sage>Carr.....


today.


BUT, BUT, it was garbage time


Carr is fine, he cant help it if AJ drops the ball

Hulk75
10-15-2006, 04:51 PM
It's not on Carr, but there need to be some wholesale changes on this squad. I have no easy solutions, but staying the course isn't working. The running game is brutal, and the backs aren't necessarily helping. It's so easy to blame the line, because they are a collective bunch of big fat guys that don't do anything that shows up on the stat sheet... but blame goes all around. DB's, pass rush, play calling, O-Line, QB, WR's, RB's. Stating the obvious, but brutal loss.

I would not even say it is the line, there are holes for the backs, just have to take the blinders off and find them, DANG IT! IS THERE ANYONE right now that is looking to be moved to another team?

This should have been a game that came down to the wire, do you know how much time we probably gave them cause we could not run the football...............

Wolf
10-15-2006, 04:54 PM
should have foreshadowed.

first drive of the game ...we got deep into their territory and tried to punch it in and NO...

good teams make it happen.
they dictate to the defense

Dr. Toro
10-15-2006, 05:00 PM
I would not even say it is the line, there are holes for the backs, just have to take the blinders off and find them, DANG IT! IS THERE ANYONE right now that is looking to be moved to another team?

This should have been a game that came down to the wire, do you know how much time we probably gave them cause we could not run the football...............

There are a few backs if we're willing to give up the picks... but this seems like a pretty risk averse FO... after getting burned on the Babin/Buchanon deals, I don't see us giving up a 1st or 2nd round package for the type of back that will help. Chris Brown isn't very good, for starters. There are a few excellent #2 backs like Michael Turner, Jerious Norwood, Brandon Jacobs, Justin Fargas, Mike Anderson etc. out there, but with the exception of Fargas, they are too young and/or valuable to be traded midseason. Michael Pittman is servicable but a step in the wrong direction, Priest Holmes is in football purgatory, but those are the only guys that come to mind. TJ Duckett is disgruntled. JJ Arrington is a big bust, change of scenery?

MrMeToo
10-15-2006, 05:01 PM
BUT, BUT, it was garbage time


Carr is fine, he cant help it if AJ drops the ball

Get off Carr's nuts. All of those passes Andre dropped were well defended. Don't throw the ball to Johnson if he's not open. I don't have a problem with Carr, but today he didn't play well.

Goldeagle
10-15-2006, 05:03 PM
Get off Carr's nuts. All of those passes Andre dropped were well defended. Don't throw the ball to Johnson if he's not open. I don't have a problem with Carr, but today he didn't play well.

Get off Carr or AJ??

I see WRs battling for balls, he hits AJ in the hands and he cant bring the ball in. He is soft, that is why the guy stole the ball from him in the other game.


Carr did not have a great game, no doubt, but to start the "Carr sucks" seems *****ic....Then again, look who I am talking to.

rmartin65
10-15-2006, 05:05 PM
Get off Carr's nuts. All of those passes Andre dropped were well defended. Don't throw the ball to Johnson if he's not open. I don't have a problem with Carr, but today he didn't play well.

Big players make big plays. I like AJ, I think he is a good reviever, but some people need to get a little more realistic. He is not the "beast" that some think he is. Elite players want the ball.

MrMeToo
10-15-2006, 05:06 PM
Get off Carr or AJ??

I see WRs battling for balls, he hits AJ in the hands and he cant bring the ball in. He is soft, that is why the guy stole the ball from him in the other game.


Carr did not have a great game, no doubt, but to start the "Carr sucks" seems *****ic....Then again, look who I am talking to.

Who said Carr sucks? Andre is one of the best WRs in the league. I'm sure you gonna blame Andre for the 2 INTs Carr threw today too, huh. Is that you David?

MrMeToo
10-15-2006, 05:08 PM
Big players make big plays. I like AJ, I think he is a good reviever, but some people need to get a little more realistic. He is not the "beast" that some think he is. Elite players want the ball.

How do you know if AJ wants the ball or not? Is it his fault Carr threw 2 INTs? Is it Johnson's fault that he didn't get any deep plays called for him?

Goldeagle
10-15-2006, 05:09 PM
Who said Carr sucks? Andre is one of the best WRs in the league. I'm sure you gonna blame Andre for the 2 INTs Carr threw today too, huh. Is that you David?

Nope not going to blame him for the ints, but AJ drops way to many passes to be considered one of the best. I could blame AJ for the one int when the ball got stripped, the guy has no aggression. FIGHT for the ball.

As the announcers said on one of the 1000200039838389 slants "Well defended but Carr put the ball where it needed to be."

JDizzle
10-15-2006, 05:09 PM
Sign Shane Falco.

Goldeagle
10-15-2006, 05:10 PM
How do you know if AJ wants the ball or not? Is it his fault Carr threw 2 INTs? Is it Johnson's fault that he didn't get any deep plays called for him?


Is that you Andre? :)

rmartin65
10-15-2006, 05:10 PM
How do you know if AJ wants the ball or not? Is it his fault Carr threw 2 INTs? Is it Johnson's fault that he didn't get any deep plays called for him?

What I meant by wanting the ball is catching the things that you can. If the ball hits you in the hands, you should catch it. He did not cause the 2 picks, I in no way blame him for that.

TexansSeminole
10-15-2006, 05:10 PM
I am not saying it was the MAIN factor in us losing this game. I think it is obvious that we need help in ALL areas of our football team. But from what I can see in Carr, he does not know how to lead his team. A QB is supposed to be the leader and Carr hasn't really been one in 5 years.

Just because I say this about Carr after a game doesn't mean I think that our sole fault this season is David Carr. You guys are quick to jump on people who are trying to make conversation. All of the sudden I am blaming this entire loss on Carr just by saying he has no leadership abilities.

P.S. I am not saying either that Carr cannot throw the football around. Take my post as what I said, not what you think I implied.

Wolf
10-15-2006, 05:12 PM
Get off Carr's nuts. All of those passes Andre dropped were well defended. Don't throw the ball to Johnson if he's not open. I don't have a problem with Carr, but today he didn't play well.

please.. they talked about T.O. in pregame and about how WR make routine catches but GREAT WR's make the catches they shouldn't... I saw AJ drop routine catches today.
more than I wanted to see.

MrMeToo
10-15-2006, 05:13 PM
Is that you Andre? :)

Yes, as a matter a fact I am.

Goldeagle
10-15-2006, 05:14 PM
Yes, as a matter a fact I am.


YOU RULE MAN! IM YOUR BIGGEST FAN!! :redtowel:

lol

:)

MrMeToo
10-15-2006, 05:15 PM
please.. they talked about T.O. in pregame and about how WR make routine catches but GREAT WR's make the catches they shouldn't... I saw AJ drop routine catches today.
more than I wanted to see.

So AJ made a few mistakes today...So did Carr (bigger mistakes). No one's perfect. We'll just leave it at that.

Wolf
10-15-2006, 05:18 PM
what mistakes?

AJ dropped some key balls in key situations

Carr had one int that was a legit bad throw.. other one LB made a good play to tip the ball and it got INT ..

run-david-run
10-15-2006, 05:19 PM
To be fair to both Carr and AJ, Carr made some very good throws into coverage. He put them in the only place AJ could catch them, but often times he had a hand in his face or getting hit as the ball was getting there. Sometimes all you can do is accept the Cowboys had good coverage because they didnt have to worry about a running game.

MrMeToo
10-15-2006, 05:20 PM
what mistakes?

AJ dropped some key balls in key situations

Carr had one int that was a legit bad throw.. other one LB made a good play to tip the ball and it got INT ..

Well in that case I could say the CBs made a good play of getting in front of AJ and deflecting the ball.

TexansSeminole
10-15-2006, 05:21 PM
To be fair to both Carr and AJ, Carr made some very good throws into coverage. He put them in the only place AJ could catch them, but often times he had a hand in his face or getting hit as the ball was getting there. Sometimes all you can do is accept the Cowboys had good coverage because they didnt have to worry about a running game.

Yes, there is nothing wrong with Carr's arm. That is quite obvious, as that was the reason he was drafted so high.

For the love of God--so the DB's can't cover anyone, the RB's can't paddy cake a hole much less hit one, AJ while a great WR still has a hard time knowing a football is to be caught and it is Carr's leadership today. Yeah, OK. Geez, the wrong tree must have mistletoe all over it.

Sorry I like to discuss problems with our team that aren't as obvious as our YPC, or the amount of dropped balls by our receivers.

Marcus
10-15-2006, 05:31 PM
Again you guys need to chill out with your implication skills. I MEAN WHAT I SAY, NOT WHAT YOU THINK IM SAYING. What makes you think I am even talking about this game? *****s.

It's funny how you guys can talk all day about the OBVIOUS ass things that happen during the game. Like we can't run the ball. NO **** SHIRLOCK...I THINK THATS PLENTY OBVIOUS...I am discussing something not so obvious thats ailing this team.

Open your minds a little bit please. Dont come back with "CARR'S FAULT?" "OMFG ***** ITS OUR RUNNING GAME, WE SUCK"

OK then, bright eyes. You create a thread called, "Carr's leadership abilities", right after a loss . . . a loss in which was painfully obvious to anyone who watched it, knows that it wasn't Carr's fault the way the game turned out, and then you get sensitive when you're called on it???

Do you expect us to read your ****ing mind?

Other than "this game", why don't you enlightern all of us on why you've been so disappointed in "Carr's leadership skills" so far. Not counting today's game, that is.:rolleyes:

OzzO
10-15-2006, 05:31 PM
Hard to lead when no one will follow. All need to step up.

I'm actually diggin' the improvement Carr has made this year (in relation to previous years). Now to work on those W's

TexansSeminole
10-15-2006, 05:33 PM
We're not supposed to read your ****ing mind?

Ya, just my post. If you would read it maybe you would know what I was talking about. And when you go back to read it, note that I never said anything about the game that was just on or who's fault it was that we lost. I am simply discussing his leadership abilities. I said something about his interviews and his ability to rally his team....where in it am I talking about this game? Yeaaaaaa.

K.D.
10-15-2006, 05:34 PM
Bottom line is Cowboys didn't respect our run game at all. They did what they were suppose to do, make us one dimensional. Carr didn't have a good game and IMO he resorted back to some of his old habits. Kubiak should have went more to 3-4 WR sets and take Dallas up on their challenge, at least the line was giving Carr more pass protection that run blocking.

As for AJ's dropped passes, thier were some calls that should have been made, but that's still not an excuse for the drops. If we would have ran a pump and go on the slants that Henry was sitting on, I betcha that play would have been successful.

This game just implies the point even more, we have a long way to go before all 3 phases of our team are on the same page.

Marcus
10-15-2006, 05:51 PM
Ya, just my post. If you would read it maybe you would know what I was talking about. And when you go back to read it, note that I never said anything about the game that was just on or who's fault it was that we lost. I am simply discussing his leadership abilities. I said something about his interviews and his ability to rally his team....where in it am I talking about this game? Yeaaaaaa.
Well, has it dawned on you yet that nobody else feels the need to discuss it?:lightbulb:

whotex8
10-15-2006, 05:53 PM
Once a Carr hater....always a Carr hater. Stop wasting your time people. Carr haters will never change...no matter what he does or how good he gets.
I personally like the improvements Carr's made. Would be nice if they all improved as a team and as a whole. Would like to see the "whole team" show up for a game (and bring their A game).
Hopefully history will be on our side next week as we play the Jags and we will continue to Own the Jags.

TexansSeminole
10-15-2006, 05:53 PM
Well, has it dawned on you yet that nobody else feels the need to discuss it?:lightbulb:

Yes, continue to look for ways to make me look bad. It will make your day THAT much better.

Wolf
10-15-2006, 05:57 PM
an interception is still an interception buddy. :tease:

no.. first interception was tipped

second one .all Carr..


you are probably the same person that blames Carr for not challenging a defense (given he has a 6-3 212 lb WR) and when he does and the WR doesn't make the play it is Carr's fault..(yes I can spin things too).

Dr. Toro
10-15-2006, 05:59 PM
Carr ISN'T the problem this year... he hasn't proven himself to be a great leader, he hasn't proven himself to be a poor leader. At some point we'll know either way.

Wolf
10-15-2006, 06:00 PM
I see improvement in Carr, but I just do not understand why Carr has such a big following when he has not given this team any championships. Bagwell has a following and he has lead us to some championships and one world series (He PH'd for us during the world series). Carr has done nothing yet. Give me a reason why I should follow Carr? If it is a good reason then I will follow him. I am a Bagwell fan and will always be one. Bagwell played for the Astros if anyone doesn't know who he is.


:lol: .. Bagwell was on the DL for most of the season.. how did he LEAD us?

noxiousdog
10-15-2006, 06:03 PM
A QB's job is to lead the offense. I know this because I did play some football. I understand the game. I played the position right gaurd. If the QB does not lead his team the proper way then the team collapses. Why do you think Kubiak says it is up to Carr if this team succeeds. Carr needs to be a leader.

So you're saying that if you had a bad game, it was the QB's fault for not leading you properly?

Wolf
10-15-2006, 06:03 PM
he played in 39 games

I like bagwell and in no way dogging him.. but geeze can you reach any further?

whotex8
10-15-2006, 06:03 PM
"........Bagwell played for the Astros if anyone doesn't know who he is."

At least Bagwell had the rest of the Astros team behind him.

TexansSeminole
10-15-2006, 06:05 PM
A QB's job is to lead the offense. I know this because I did play some football. I understand the game. I played the position right gaurd. If the QB does not lead his team the proper way then the team collapses. Why do you think Kubiak says it is up to Carr if this team succeeds. Carr needs to be a leader.

Yes thank you, this is what I am trying to get to....Not his INTs...Not the running game...Not the blocking.

Marcus
10-15-2006, 06:06 PM
Yes, continue to look for ways to make me look bad. It will make your day THAT much better.
I guess an apology is in order for being that harsh. It's just that I've had my fill of people still bashing on Carr when it's obvious that his play is about the only thing on this offense that's working. You're timing was terrible. Maybe creating this thread on a Wednesday or Thursday would have been more receptive, but not when everyone is still steaming on Sunday afternoon.

Mr teX
10-15-2006, 06:08 PM
"........Bagwell played for the Astros if anyone doesn't know who he is."

At least Bagwell had the rest of the Astros team behind him.

Yeah up until last year, he hadn't lead anyone anywhere. Championships? NL central championships mean nothing if you can't get it done in October.

Wolf
10-15-2006, 06:10 PM
Yeah but he got to PH for us in the world series. His injury helped inspire the team to go further than what they were expected. He was also in the club house alot which helped as well.So basically yes he lead us to the world series last year. Don't laugh because at least the astros got a taste of the world series. The texans or oilers have yet tasted the NFL superbowl.

it is texans.. Oilers did make it to the superbowl (titans are the Oilers)


Bagwell didn't do squat...Astros did it on the field.. yes I like bagwell and am sorry he was hurt..but he didn't help that team

if motivation is what the texans need.. heck lets get Tony Robbins to speak before the game and at halftime..

Texans still need talent to fit the system

TexansSeminole
10-15-2006, 06:11 PM
I guess an apology is in order for being that harsh. It's just that I've had my fill of people still bashing on Carr when it's obvious that his play is about the only thing on this offense that's working. You're timing was terrible. Maybe creating this thread on a Wednesday or Thursday would have been more receptive, but not when everyone is still steaming on Sunday afternoon.

Yea, I can see that people are too upset about other areas to even consider participating in this conversation. I am not a Carr basher. I beleive Carr can be successful statistically. But I am starting to question his ability to win games, and/or lead his team to wins.

TPIMP
10-15-2006, 06:12 PM
Leadership is way overrated. Remember Kurt Warner has a superbowl ring.

It's just perception. If you win you're a good leader if you lose you are not....it's not the other way around.

TexansSeminole
10-15-2006, 06:14 PM
Leadership is way overrated. Remember Kurt Warner has a superbowl ring.

It's just perception. If you win you're a good leader if you lose you are not....it's not the other way around.

Huh? Are you serious? Did you ever play sports? Seriously I am wondering if you are being sarcastic here.

Heywood
10-15-2006, 06:15 PM
Let me try to end this stupid thread...............David Carr was your leading rusher today!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Hey lets not forget the balls that Andre dropped today, I am tired of him going under the radar, MAKE A PLAY WHEN YOUR TEAM NEEDS YOU!, NOT just jump balls and wide open balls, catch the hard ones, SICK AND TIRED of watching him drop balls over and over.

This is a stupid thread, talk about stuff that makes sense! Critique all you want BUT Carr has NOTHING TO DO with the run game after the ball leaves his hand into the RBs.

We need a running back now NOT another 300lbs RB KuBES! Take some draft picks and find a RB! There ARE HOLES AND CUT BACK LANES for the tailbacks, are big guys just stick their heads down in the back of our lineman and grind out yards............CRAP!............. sorry, NO you know what I am not sorry.

i watched the same game you did.

Mr teX
10-15-2006, 06:16 PM
Yes thank you, this is what I am trying to get to....Not his INTs...Not the running game...Not the blocking.

I guess Carr wasn't a leader in 2002 when he lead us to our 1st ever win as rookie QB huh? As with every other team the QB gets too much of the Glory when a team wins & too much of the blame when they lose. Since we've done ALOT of losing in our existence, It's only natural to blame him for the sorry performances this team has turned in.

TPIMP
10-15-2006, 06:17 PM
Huh? Are you serious? Did you ever play sports? Seriously I am wondering if you are being sarcastic here.

Yes I played and one thing everyone who has played would know is the people sitting in the stands and in this case watching on TV have no idea who the leaders on the field are.

TexansSeminole
10-15-2006, 06:19 PM
Yes I played and one thing everyone who has played would know is the people sitting in the stands and in this case watching on TV have no idea who the leaders on the field are.

I do know that the QB is supposed to be a leader. I dont see how leadership could be overrated. These guys aren't machines, there is more than the physical parts of the game in football.

I guess Carr wasn't a leader in 2002 when he lead us to our 1st ever win as rookie QB huh? As with every other team the QB gets too much of the Glory when a team wins & too much of the blame when they lose. Since we've done ALOT of losing in our existence, It's only natural to blame him for the sorry performances this team has turned in.

Sure that game was good but one game doesn't mean he can do it week in and week out. Consistency is a problem.

Second Honeymoon
10-15-2006, 06:22 PM
For the love of God--so the DB's can't cover anyone, the RB's can't paddy cake a hole much less hit one, AJ while a great WR still has a hard time knowing a football is to be caught and it is Carr's leadership today. Yeah, OK. Geez, the wrong tree must have mistletoe all over it.

I gotta agree. Quoted for truth. We didn't lose because of Carr's leadership or Carr's play. We lost as a team and although probably Carr's worst 2006 game to date, he wasn't a liability and in fact, moved the ball pretty well in the first half without the benefit of any running game whatsoever. Carr is closer to a solution than a problem for the Texans. They have major deficiencies at CB. They have major deficiencies at RB. They need a playmaker on defense. Those are the problems...not Carr.

Oh, and I thought the offensive line did a relatively good job pass protecting vs. Dallas for most of the day. He had a lot of time in the pocket in the first half although they were throwing mostly short West Coast offense type routes.

I was and still am a critic of Carr, but his play this year has not been a problem for the most part. I really think Bush could have helped Carr this year, but that is spilled milk....let's just hope that we can get a win or two here soon or it's time to start talking draft position :(

doug from the woodlands

Marcus
10-15-2006, 06:23 PM
Yea, I can see that people are too upset about other areas to even consider participating in this conversation. I am not a Carr basher. I beleive Carr can be successful statistically. But I am starting to question his ability to win games, and/or lead his team to wins.
You see, that's where you're going to have to help me out here. Are you saying that if Carr were "the leader", or had the "ability to win" so to speak, that they could win anyway . . despite no running game, despite all the other glaring weaknesses on this team?

Why should I not question your ability to be realistic enough? . . or to see that Carr can't do it all by himself?

TPIMP
10-15-2006, 06:25 PM
[QUOTE=TexansSeminole;469426]I do know that the QB is supposed to be a leader. I dont see how leadership could be overrated. These guys aren't machines, there is more than the physical parts of the game in football.


So make your case about how Kurt Warner must be a leader.

Mr teX
10-15-2006, 06:27 PM
Huh? Are you serious? Did you ever play sports? Seriously I am wondering if you are being sarcastic here.

It's true, maybe not to the extreme he's speaking of, but its true. In the last 15-20 years you've seen QB's win & get to the superbowl just "managing" games. When people think of Trent Dilfer, do you think they are going to remember him as a great leader? How about Stan Humphries of the Chargers or jake delhomme? All those guys pretty much fell into oblivion after the superbowl.


THIS IS A TEAM GAME PEOPLE & IMO DC is no different than a Steve Young, John Elway or someone like Brett Favre as far as his ability to lead. All of those guys weren't/aren't fiery on the sideline or in the huddle. The only difference is that this team just doesn't have enough of this thing we call talent to be successful on a week to week basis.

TexansSeminole
10-15-2006, 06:28 PM
You see, that's where you're going to have to help me out here. Are you saying that if Carr were "the leader", or had the "ability to win" so to speak, that they could win anyway . . despite no running game, despite all the other glaring weaknesses on this team?

Why should I not question your ability to be realistic enough? . . or to see that Carr can't do it all by himself?

Well...despite those glaring weaknesses we were winning the game for awhile...as a team. After he threw a few INTs the team kinda lost it. As if he had thrown the game away for them. Not saying we would have won this game if he hadn't thrown INTs. But the QB is one of those guys you have got to count on, and it doesn't look like this team puts much faith in him.

I think alot of his problem leading this team is in his history with it. He may very well be a successful QB with a different team, and a new group of guys, but as for this team...I just dont see the faith.

thunderkyss
10-15-2006, 06:28 PM
There are a few backs if we're willing to give up the picks... but this seems like a pretty risk averse FO...

Why even consider giving up draft picks this early??

I thought all you guys thought we were only going to win 4 or 5 games anyway?? You want to give up a first day pick to win 4 or 5 games that we'll probably get anyway??

#4 against the run on yards per carry, that's the team that stuffed our running game today.

#1 against the run on yards per carry, that's the team we beat two weeks ago.

Had our defense played today, Three weeks ago against washington, we would've won that game.

If our QB didn't spot the Colts 10 points, in the first Qtr, we'd could have seen our running game then.

Hold on to your picks, we'll still win the 4 or 5 games you thought we would..

TexansSeminole
10-15-2006, 06:30 PM
So make your case about how Kurt Warner must be a leader.

Why are you talking about Kurt Warner? I dont understand what you are asking me to say here.

Wolf
10-15-2006, 06:30 PM
Well...despite those glaring weaknesses we were winning the game for awhile...as a team. After he threw a few INTs the team kinda lost it. As if he had thrown the game away for them. Not saying we would have won this game if he hadn't thrown INTs. But the QB is one of those guys you have got to count on, and it doesn't look like this team puts much faith in him.

I think alot of his problem leading this team is in his history with it. He may very well be a successful QB with a different team, and a new group of guys, but as for this team...I just dont see the faith.
1st int.. Dallas Lb made the play that is what players do. sadly we are a step or two off of getting a game changing play

2nd int.. Carr had horrible throw...just horrible

Mr teX
10-15-2006, 06:31 PM
I do know that the QB is supposed to be a leader. I dont see how leadership could be overrated. These guys aren't machines, there is more than the physical parts of the game in football.



Sure that game was good but one game doesn't mean he can do it week in and week out. Consistency is a problem.


Consider the situation of that game. A rookie QB making his 1st start in an NFL game with an expansion franchise? Are you kidding? If he had any leadership abilities, they were shown that night. He has them, he just needs help.

TexansSeminole
10-15-2006, 06:31 PM
How about Stan Humphries of the Chargers or jake delhomme?
Dude, Jake Delhomme is a great leader...I thought that much was obvious.

Wolf
10-15-2006, 06:32 PM
I thought that carolina defense is what was doing it

TexansSeminole
10-15-2006, 06:34 PM
I thought that carolina defense is what was doing it

Yea I love that defense.

Nighthawk
10-15-2006, 06:38 PM
This is NOT a stupid thread.
Carr is NOT a leader, never will be.
Sure, everybody screwed up today.
That doesn't make Carr a leader.
Makes him part of the problem.
Always has been.
Why can't they see?
Sure, throw the stats around.
Only one stat counts.
Carr needs replacing.
We need POWER at the QB slot.
Someone who the team BELIEVES will get it done.
Leadership.
We don't have it now.

Marcus
10-15-2006, 06:42 PM
Well...despite those glaring weaknesses we were winning the game for awhile...as a team. After he threw a few INTs the team kinda lost it. As if he had thrown the game away for them. Not saying we would have won this game if he hadn't thrown INTs. But the QB is one of those guys you have got to count on, and it doesn't look like this team puts much faith in him.

I think alot of his problem leading this team is in his history with it. He may very well be a successful QB with a different team, and a new group of guys, but as for this team...I just dont see the faith.

I repeat . .

Why should I not question your ability to be realistic enough? . . or to see that Carr can't do it all by himself?

TexansSeminole
10-15-2006, 06:45 PM
Maybe when we get alot of new guys around him he will start to build a trust between him and his teamates, but as of now i've got to think that the team looks at him in the huddle and hope he doesn't mess up.

Today I saw a undrafted(I think) QB lead his team down the field in the 4th quarter and take a win away from a playoff caliber team. That has got to inspire something in the players. Next game they are going to look at their QB and believe that they can score on every posession. Everybody will play with more heart in the Bucs next game. That is what a leader does. He inspires players to play to the top of their ability. They make their teamates believe that they can beat the guy in front of them, and if they just do their job, the team will get it done.

We don't have that with our QB.

TPIMP
10-15-2006, 06:46 PM
Why are you talking about Kurt Warner? I dont understand what you are asking me to say here.

Sorry I was trying to follow your reasoning but it's difficult. I thought you were making the case that in order for the Texans to win they needed a leader at QB. So I reasoned that if you believed that it must apply to all teams. Along those lines the Rams won a superbowl and Kurt Warner was the QB. So he must have been a great leader to achieve that...right??

Second Honeymoon
10-15-2006, 06:46 PM
Carr hasn't been the problem this year. All QBs turn the ball over. Good teams step up and pick their teammates up when they make a mistake. We arent one of those teams yet and until we become one of those teams, it wouldnt matter if we had Montana at QB. We need to start getting consistent play from all 3 phases of our team.

Hopefully Wong can help our defense if/when he comes back.

doug

whotex8
10-15-2006, 06:47 PM
This is NOT a stupid thread.
Carr is NOT a leader, never will be.
Sure, everybody screwed up today.
That doesn't make Carr a leader.
Makes him part of the problem.
Always has been.
Why can't they see?
Sure, throw the stats around.
Only one stat counts.
Carr needs replacing.
We need POWER at the QB slot.
Someone who the team BELIEVES will get it done.
Leadership.
We don't have it now.

And
the
President
of
the
Carr
hater
club
speaks!
:stirpot:

TexansSeminole
10-15-2006, 06:47 PM
I repeat . .

Why should I not question your ability to be realistic enough? . . or to see that Carr can't do it all by himself?

Do you remember the game where we won with 46 offensive yards. Yes we had a bad day on the ground on as a team period, but points wise we were winning, so the team had to be feeling good about the score. Obviously Carr can't do it all himself, but you have to admit, after those 2 back to back INTs, the team lost all hope.

P.S. Yes, we need a new RB. Yes, we need some new OL. Yes, we need alot of new defensive players. Yes, Carr cannot win on his own. Yes, Carr is not the only problem, nor the main problem, or even the second most pressing problem. Is this what you want me to say? I beleive all these things, but it doesn't change that I think we need a new guy at QB. To spark this team.

Wolf
10-15-2006, 06:49 PM
wow miami just scored a TD and chambers WENT AFTER THE ball ..

I imagine if Dave did that , he'd be crucified because 1) the wr didn't get open and 2) ball wasn't perfect)

Chambers made a nice catch,tough but nice

TexansSeminole
10-15-2006, 06:49 PM
Sorry I was trying to follow your reasoning but it's difficult. I thought you were making the case that in order for the Texans to win they needed a leader at QB. So I reasoned that if you believed that it must apply to all teams. Along those lines the Rams won a superbowl and Kurt Warner was the QB. So he must have been a great leader to achieve that...right??

I never said we needed a leader at QB to win but it certainly helps. And it certainly works against us when our QB isn't a very good leader. I didn't watch enough of the Rams that year to say that Kurt was a great leader, but to get his team to a Superbowl I would say he did a pretty damn good job at leading his team that year.

Wolf
10-15-2006, 06:51 PM
I never said we needed a leader at QB to win but it certainly helps. And it certainly works against us when our QB isn't a very good leader. I didn't watch enough of the Rams that year to say that Kurt was a great leader, but to get his team to a Superbowl I would say he did a pretty damn good job at leading his team that year.

so what made Kurt change from being a leader to going to the Cards and then to the bench?

TexansSeminole
10-15-2006, 06:55 PM
so what made Kurt change from being a leader to going to the Cards and then to the bench?

Age, lol. No but seriously, age, Matt Leinart, situation, a bunch of different things. He lost alot of physical skills, and started to throw the ball up for grabs too much as he got older, much like Favre nowadays. You can't do it forever...it has got to stop sometime.

Dr. Toro
10-15-2006, 07:04 PM
Warner is the ultimate system quarterback. He was perfect for that offense and that offense was perfect for him. I don't think anyone ever considered him a leader, maybe a "ringleader" for an unprecedented offensive circus. Pace, Holt, Faulk, Bruce, Vermeil/Martz... end of story. Leaders aren't made when you're throwing for 400 yards a game and everybody is scoring touchdowns... leaders are made in tough and tight situations. Warner tended to fold in adverse times... here comes another sack and fumble.... cue the calliope music. He was never more than a statue, and that weakness became pretty apparent pretty quickly.

Marcus
10-15-2006, 07:09 PM
Do you remember the game where we won with 46 offensive yards. Yes we had a bad day on the ground on as a team period, but points wise we were winning, so the team had to be feeling good about the score. Obviously Carr can't do it all himself, but you have to admit, after those 2 back to back INTs, the team lost all hope.
No . . . I don't admit that . . at all. Where did you get the idea that the team "lost all hope"? They intercepted, and they took it down and scored. Then Carr, having no running game to support him, is forced to throw the ball.

P.S. Yes, we need a new RB. Yes, we need some new OL. Yes, we need alot of new defensive players. Yes, Carr cannot win on his own. Yes, Carr is not the only problem, nor the main problem, or even the second most pressing problem. Is this what you want me to say? I beleive all these things, but it doesn't change that I think we need a new guy at QB. To spark this team.
That team had a decent running game to back him up, didn't they?

I know you're not going to want to hear this, but here it comes.

Leadership . . in the NFL . . is overrated. A good sound football team wins games in this league. Leadership is for high school.

Dr. Toro
10-15-2006, 07:15 PM
Why even consider giving up draft picks this early??

I thought all you guys thought we were only going to win 4 or 5 games anyway?? You want to give up a first day pick to win 4 or 5 games that we'll probably get anyway??

#4 against the run on yards per carry, that's the team that stuffed our running game today.

#1 against the run on yards per carry, that's the team we beat two weeks ago.

Had our defense played today, Three weeks ago against washington, we would've won that game.

If our QB didn't spot the Colts 10 points, in the first Qtr, we'd could have seen our running game then.

Hold on to your picks, we'll still win the 4 or 5 games you thought we would..

Well, if you can get a star in the making for maybe a #2 and #3 or #4 here are the arguments for it:

1)Salvage a bit of the season.
2)Show dedication to fans.
3)Be able to adequately assess other areas... we'll never get a great read on Carr's true abilities or the line with a sub-standard backfield.
4)Protect Carr... respecting the run should help out in the sack area.
5)Get some momentum going into the next season/teach some guys how to win.
6)Have a known quantity going into next season.

Here are the arguments against it:
1)You may be able to get the same quality runner with those picks.
2)Ron Dayne/Samkon Gado may be the solution.
3)You may be able to get the same quality runner in free agency.

If San Diego answers the phone and takes Dayne/ a second and 4th rounder for Turner... you had me at hello. There aren't any other guys I'd pony up for though.

TexansSeminole
10-15-2006, 07:20 PM
No . . . I don't admit that . . at all. Where did you get the idea that the team "lost all hope"? They intercepted, and they took it down and scored. Then Carr, having no running game to support him, is forced to throw the ball.

Did you see the way the team played after? We fumbled a kickoff and then our defense was allowing Dallas to pick us apart, much different than the way they were playing earlier in the game. What are you saying here? That the fact that we have no running game means we have no chance to win the game, so Carr is forced to throw a horrible pass and get intercepted? We were holding on before that, despite the bad play of our secondary and our running game. After those interceptions, I would bet that 80% of the team was pretty sure we were going to lose after that. Therefore, not playing to win.

Leadership . . in the NFL . . is overrated. A good sound football team wins games in this league. Leadership is for high school.

Yes a good sound team does win games, in highschool and in the NFL. And in the NCAA, and in the MLB, and in MLS...and in the Euro league of soccer...and in Little League Baseball...and in bowling.

All of the sudden these NFL players are supposed to be machines. Run their route with the same effort everytime. Are you honestly saying that a reciever is going to run his route with the same confidence if he had David Carr has a QB rather than Peyton Manning. No, he will not. To act like leadership plays no or even just a small role in the NFL is just rediculous. Yes, leadership effects how players play the game. No matter what game it is.

Just because you can't see the leadership like you can see the statistics...doesn't mean that the statistics mean more than the leadership.

Marcus
10-15-2006, 07:43 PM
Did you see the way the team played after? We fumbled a kickoff and then our defense was allowing Dallas to pick us apart, much different than the way they were playing earlier in the game. What are you saying here? That the fact that we have no running game means we have no chance to win the game, so Carr is forced to throw a horrible pass and get intercepted? We were holding on before that, despite the bad play of our secondary and our running game. After those interceptions, I would bet that 80% of the team was pretty sure we were going to lose after that. Therefore, not playing to win.
You say you're not a 'Carr hater', but your actions speak for themselves. You just implied that if Carr were a "leader", he wouldn't have thrown that 'horrible' pass.

All of the sudden these NFL players are supposed to be machines. Run their route with the same effort everytime. Are you honestly saying that a reciever is going to run his route with the same confidence if he had David Carr has a QB rather than Peyton Manning. No, he will not. To act like leadership plays no or even just a small role in the NFL is just rediculous. Yes, leadership effects how players play the game. No matter what game it is.
So you're implying that, despite what Carr has done on the field so far this season, neither AJ, Moulds, or any other receiver, has any confidence in David? Your colors are showing.

Just because you can't see the leadership like you can see the statistics...doesn't mean that the statistics mean more than the leadership.
Like hervoyal said at he beginning of this thread . . you're barking up the wrong tree. His play today, and every game this season so far . . had been the only thing on the offense that has worked. And to blame his "leadership" on why the other parts are not working ?????

Tell me why I shouldn't think you have an agenda.

TexansSeminole
10-15-2006, 07:53 PM
You say you're not a 'Carr hater', but your actions speak for themselves. You just implied that if Carr were a "leader", he wouldn't have thrown that 'horrible' pass.
So you're implying that, despite what Carr has done on the field so far this season, neither AJ, Moulds, or any other receiver, has any confidence in David? Your colors are showing.
Like hervoyal said at he beginning of this thread . . you're barking up the wrong tree. His play today, and every game this season so far . . had been the only thing on the offense that has worked. And to blame his "leadership" on why the other parts are not working ?????
Tell me why I shouldn't think you have an agenda.

Because I said that our receivers would have more confidence in Peyton Manning than Carr, all of the sudden I am saying they have no confidence in him. Ok your fishing there. I never said if Carr was a leader he wouldnt have thrown that pass. Read my post, jeezus. I was asking you if what your were saying was that the fact we had no running game forced him to make that bad throw?....Where are you getting all this? Id repost my stuff but its not worth my time...you should just go back and re-read it because you obviously need to.

You need to take a class in reading comprehension. You are putting words in my mouth left and right here. It is actually kind of insulting.

Marcus
10-15-2006, 08:05 PM
Because I said that our receivers would have more confidence in Peyton Manning than Carr, all of the sudden I am saying they have no confidence in him. Ok your fishing there. I never said if Carr was a leader he wouldnt have thrown that pass. Read my post, jeezus. I was asking you if what your were saying was that the fact we had no running game forced him to make that bad throw?....Where are you getting all this? Id repost my stuff but its not worth my time...you should just go back and re-read it because you obviously need to.

You need to take a class in reading comprehension. You are putting words in my mouth left and right here. It is actually kind of insulting.

I'm just trying to figure out why it is that you're focusing on Carr's supposed "leadership abilities" when there are so many other glaring weaknesses on the team? It's just that I get this impression from you that if someone else other than Carr QBing the team, then we'd be winning despite those weaknesses? And if I'm correct here . . . why?

TexansSeminole
10-15-2006, 08:10 PM
Maybe because that is the TOPIC of this thread. If i wanted to talk about how the OL can't run block or how our RBs are too slow to hit holes I would go to a thread that was on that topic.

By no means do I think that if any other QB was QBing this team we'd win dispite our weaknesses. Maybe you should stop trying to figure me out or whatever your doing...because all you are doing is putting words in my mouth.

If I say that Carr is not a good leader, you change it to I think Carr is the only problem on the team. If I ask you to clarify something you change my QUESTION into a STATEMENT saying I believe that if Carr were a better leader he wouldn't have made bad throws.

Marcus
10-15-2006, 08:24 PM
Maybe because that is the TOPIC of this thread. If i wanted to talk about how the OL can't run block or how our RBs are too slow to hit holes I would go to a thread that was on that topic.

By no means do I think that if any other QB was QBing this team we'd win dispite our weaknesses. Maybe you should stop trying to figure me out or whatever your doing...because all you are doing is putting words in my mouth.

If I say that Carr is not a good leader, you change it to I think Carr is the only problem on the team. If I ask you to clarify something you change my QUESTION into a STATEMENT saying I believe that if Carr were a better leader he wouldn't have made bad throws.

All right, let's take a look at your first post.
I have come to the conclusion that Carr has no leadership skills at all. I see him in interviews talking and sometimes I am embarassed for our team because its almost like a joke. On the field, he never rallies the guys and makes a statement. I just really dont think we are going anywhere with this QB.
I am watching Gradkowski for the Bucs lead his team downfield. Down by 6. He just scored the game winning touchdown agaisnt the BENGALS, with a 0-5 team. His teamates are hugging him and really letting him take them to the win.

And you actually wondered why you got the reaction that you did? But then, when you got all sensitive about it, I decided to indulge . . to try to figure out your rationale for making that statement. I guess I wasn't too successful.

I'm done here.

TexansSeminole
10-15-2006, 08:25 PM
All right, let's take a look at your first post.


And you actually wondered why you got the reaction that you did? But then, when you got all sensitive about it, I decided to indulge . . to try to figure out your rationale for making that statement. I guess I wasn't too successful.

I'm done here.

No, you just twisted my words, trying to make me into Carr hater as you seem to think me as.

Kaiser Toro
10-15-2006, 08:26 PM
I do not think Carr is a leader at this level of play, but that has zero to do with today's game. Once the first drive was over, the offense was done. Just like the previous games.

Wharton
10-15-2006, 08:36 PM
Speaking of a good leader, did anyone notice what the rookie QB from Texas did with 5:11 seconds in the game today? :)

Despite his crappy team, he LEAD it to a victory!

:whip:

texpa
10-15-2006, 08:48 PM
saw his interview on the news carr once again blamed this loss on himself for not making enough plays----again for the 4th time this year-it is starting to get old pretty quick he needs to start getting on "his" players

Mr teX
10-15-2006, 08:58 PM
Speaking of a good leader, did anyone notice what the rookie QB from Texas did with 5:11 seconds in the game today? :)

Despite his crappy team, he LEAD it to a victory!

:whip:

Yeah, just ignore Henry's 178 yds rushing.

Porky
10-15-2006, 09:01 PM
Why even consider giving up draft picks this early??

I thought all you guys thought we were only going to win 4 or 5 games anyway?? You want to give up a first day pick to win 4 or 5 games that we'll probably get anyway??

#4 against the run on yards per carry, that's the team that stuffed our running game today.

#1 against the run on yards per carry, that's the team we beat two weeks ago.

Had our defense played today, Three weeks ago against washington, we would've won that game.

If our QB didn't spot the Colts 10 points, in the first Qtr, we'd could have seen our running game then.

Hold on to your picks, we'll still win the 4 or 5 games you thought we would..

But, we want the 13 you predicted. Why not, I mean we have as much talent as anyone else right? :sarcasm:

TPIMP
10-15-2006, 09:17 PM
Speaking of a good leader, did anyone notice what the rookie QB from Texas did with 5:11 seconds in the game today? :)

Despite his crappy team, he LEAD it to a victory!

:whip:

What did he do. Kick a FG?

swtbound07
10-15-2006, 09:31 PM
Okay, legitimate question.

did anybody pause to think and wonder if rosenfels making his appearance at the end of the game wasn't because it was garbage time, but because Kubiak STILL doesn't want Carr running a 2 minute drill? I was wondering if they were going to attempt one in the first half...i think if the return hadn't gone as deep into dallas territory as it did we would have turtle-in-shelled and gone into the half 3-3. Am i off-base on this one?

Wolf
10-15-2006, 09:34 PM
no. we have had "garbage time" a few times this season already

TPIMP
10-15-2006, 09:39 PM
Okay, legitimate question.

did anybody pause to think and wonder if rosenfels making his appearance at the end of the game wasn't because it was garbage time, but because Kubiak STILL doesn't want Carr running a 2 minute drill? I was wondering if they were going to attempt one in the first half...i think if the return hadn't gone as deep into dallas territory as it did we would have turtle-in-shelled and gone into the half 3-3. Am i off-base on this one?

You're off base. Both teams put in backups.