PDA

View Full Version : When does Carr's contract expire?


mes311
05-12-2004, 03:37 PM
I though Carr was signed through 2007 at least. There is an article on ESPN talking about the recent youth movement in general and they say his contract is up in 2005. I posted the paragraph below because it's about halfway down.


The only downside to this seven-year quarterback bonanza is what happens when these young quarterbacks reach the end of their contracts. David Carr's contract ends in 2005. Tom Brady, Michael Vick and McNair have to renegotiated in 2006. Jake Plummer, Kyle Boller, Rex Grossman, Plummer, Brooks and others are signed through 2007.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=1799423

Vinny
05-12-2004, 03:44 PM
David Carr cap hit the next two years...

2004: $2,733,333
2005: $7,573,333

Blake
05-12-2004, 03:48 PM
David is the QB for the Texans for as long as he plays football.

777texans
05-12-2004, 03:54 PM
David is the QB for the Texans for as long as he plays football.
lol I sure hope so!!!!! Hopefull he'll be like Tom Brady

WWJD
05-12-2004, 04:43 PM
You'd like to think Carr would stay for the duration of his playing years but who knows?

There are so many variables to pro sports these days.

I'm sure Niner fans never thought Montana would leave. The players I think have some loyalty but ultimately I've learned that they will do what is best for them 99% of the time financially.

And you can't really blame them. Their careers are short in terms of years.

It should be interesting when it does come up. I can't imagine the Texans not offering him whatever.....sort of like the Colts and Manning.

Great thread.

Fiddy
05-12-2004, 04:48 PM
You'd like to think Carr would stay for the duration of his playing years but who knows?

There are so many variables to pro sports these days.

I'm sure Niner fans never thought Montana would leave. The players I think have some loyalty but ultimately I've learned that they will do what is best for them 99% of the time financially.With the Franchise tag and everything, if the Texans want him he will stay. When did the last Franchise QB change teams through FA????

WWJD
05-12-2004, 04:57 PM
You left out the last part of my post...I said I expect the Texans will treat him as the Colts did Manning.

I don't expect he will leave. But by the same token it's not an impossibility. Improbable yes.

I suspect if they have to keep Carr at the expense of others they will.

I really don't keep up very much with players in free agency or trades. So I can't answer when the last QB to leave was. I don't have any idea.

NotARealTexan
05-12-2004, 07:31 PM
I think John Clayton was technically right in that Carr's contract, as it currently stands, only runs through 2005.

However, that is deceiving, since sometime in the next year or two the Texans will exercise an option payment on Carr's contract, and, depending on which option they choose, will extend his deal either through 2007 or 2008.

I'm not entirely sure how it works, AJ knows better I'm sure, but I think the jist of it is that Carr was originally signed from 2002-2007, then he triggered a clause that voided the 2006 and 2007 years--leaving him currently signed only through 2005--and now the Texans can "buy back" the 2006, 2007 and possibly 2008 years by paying Carr an option bonus.

wags
05-12-2004, 07:44 PM
I think David Carr will play his entire career as a Texan. Hopefully when it comes time to resign him he will say "I love the Texans so much I'll play for free." What are the chances?

infantrycak
05-12-2004, 07:58 PM
David Carr signed a 7 year contract, i.e. through the 2009 season.

The Fresno State quarterback, drafted first overall by the expansion Houston Texans on Saturday, signed a seven-year contract that could pay him $60 million.

No doubt it is very back loaded and may have to be re-worked after year 4 or 5 to keep it from being ridiculously--cough, Manning, cough--expensive.

aj.
05-12-2004, 09:02 PM
NotARealTexan is on the right track. I posted this somewhere else, not sure where, so I'll try to reconstruct it the best I can.

Carr's contract has the "potential" to go 7 years but next year (2005) is an option year. That means his contract will expire at the end of the 2005 season if the Texans do not exercise one of two buyback options, (either a two-year or a three-year extension). His 2005 base before the option is exercised is a hefty $5.5 million.

If the Texans exercise the two year option, Carr will receive a bonus of $5.5 million upon signing and base salaries in '06 and '07 of $5 million and $5.25 million respectively.

If the Texans choose the three year option (to fully exercise the 7 year deal), Carr will receive a bonus of $8 million upon signing and bases of $5.25 million in '06 and '07 and $6 million in '08.

He will become very expensive next year so he better start earning it.

Lucky
05-12-2004, 11:14 PM
If the Texans choose the three year option (to fully exercise the 7 year deal), Carr will receive a bonus of $8 million upon signing and bases of $5.25 million in '06 and '07 and $6 million in '08.

He will become very expensive next year so he better start earning it.
If Carr becomes a top 10 QB (as I think he will) those numbers will be a bargain in the world of NFL contracts.

WWJD
05-12-2004, 11:16 PM
It's amazing what pro athletes make these days. You can play a few years and if you invest wisely you are set for life.

wags
05-12-2004, 11:30 PM
If we quit going to the games and watching them on TV those guys would be broke.

rittenhouserobz
05-13-2004, 01:49 AM
Manning (http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/players/playerpage/12531)

Manning is getting roughly 14 million a year. Us having Carr at his contract rate will be a bargain.

Texman
05-13-2004, 06:43 AM
It almost goes without saying that Carr made improvements over his first season. I've felt for a long time that athletes get paid way too much money but to stay competetive we have to stay in the game. As for picking up Carrs' contract after 2005, I'm in complete agreement with AJs' last words." He'd better start earning it."

aj.
05-13-2004, 07:25 AM
If Carr becomes a top 10 QB (as I think he will) those numbers will be a bargain in the world of NFL contracts.

You're calling a cap hit of 7-8 million per year a bargain? I'd like to see the salary list that you're using as a reference.

It isn't unusual for the QB to be the highest paid player on a team but like I said, he better start earning it because he's not a top ten QB and his salary is about to become just that.

WWJD
05-13-2004, 08:39 AM
I think this will be an important year for David Carr. As the team improves around him I fully expect he will step up his game.

Few QB's are very proficient right away. I think he'll be fine. They have some really good receivers that will only get better and they also have the addition of an excellent RB.

Carr will be fine barring injuries. I expect he'll have a breakout season.

infantrycak
05-13-2004, 09:49 AM
You're calling a cap hit of 7-8 million per year a bargain? I'd like to see the salary list that you're using as a reference.

It isn't unusual for the QB to be the highest paid player on a team but like I said, he better start earning it because he's not a top ten QB and his salary is about to become just that.

Carr definitely needs to step up his game to earn those numbers in the next few years. For reference here are the franchise (top 5) and transition (top 10) numbers:

Franchise tender: $9,958,000
Transition tender: $8,169,000

Don't think they have been updated for Payton's new salary.

Lucky
05-13-2004, 10:18 AM
You're calling a cap hit of 7-8 million per year a bargain? I'd like to see the salary list that you're using as a reference.

It isn't unusual for the QB to be the highest paid player on a team but like I said, he better start earning it because he's not a top ten QB and his salary is about to become just that.
By the time Carr's cap hit escalates to the $7-8 million range, guys like McNabb, Culpepper, Vick, McNair, Farve (if he's still playing), and of course Manning's contracts will dwarf those numbers. Who knows how much more Brady, Pennington, and Hasselback will re-up for? More than what the Texans will be paying for Carr, that's for sure. And that franchise number that infantrycak posted will look like crumbs. So yes, it will be a bargain.

As far as "start earning it" is concerned, I guess Carr taking a record number of sacks behind the worst O-line in NFL history means nothing to you. Would any of the QBs I've listed above have taken the Texans to the playoffs in the 1st two season? Bash Carr for this, that, and the other thing, but the earning it stuff is a load. He's earned his money thus far.

Vinny
05-13-2004, 10:32 AM
Carr clearly needs to improve. If you are suggesting "being tough", or having a good attitude is enough to pay franchise money...then, fine. Who can argue that? I would like to see some 3rd down conversions myself.

Lucky
05-13-2004, 10:38 AM
Vinny, when a quality NFL offense is put around Carr, I'm sure you'll see some conversions. Heck, even TDs. Maybe this season, that's what I'm thinking.

Vinny
05-13-2004, 10:47 AM
Vinny, when a quality NFL offense is put around Carr, I'm sure you'll see some conversions. Heck, even TDs. Maybe this season, that's what I'm thinking.
I do too and I think aj. does also. I think he was just referring to those posts earlier that compared Carr to Manning (and like it or not, right now, he just does not compare with true franchise QB's based on production). Frankly, I wish to give him a clean slate of sorts. He has been a bit handicapped to date and we now have a NFL line that will give both running game and our passing game a chance. We roll in to camp with RBís we feel good about, upgraded our TEís and will not line up a journeyman at any starting position. I just feel that if he played better (like a franchise QB) last year we would have beaten a couple of more teams. Carr has nearly 30 NFL starts. This is his 3rd NFL camp. I look for big things this year.

Blake
05-13-2004, 10:58 AM
This will either be his break-out year, or his break-down year. He has to go one way or the other. The Texans IMO, have given him enough tools to use this year. Hes got the WR's, hes got a good line going, and now, a great RB option.

And as far as the "he hasnt earned it" crud. Thats what it is, crud. He has done everything and more, that the Texans expect out of him. In case you guys didnt notice, football is one of the few sports that is a team game. Hes not LeBron, and this isnt basketball.

El Tejano
05-13-2004, 12:12 PM
I think Carr himself knows what lies ahead of him. If he works hard and continues to be the leader of this team, big dividends will be earned. If not, then he has nothing to stand on. I think he is expecting big improvement over this year. Overall I think the team has the same attitude.

TheOgre
05-13-2004, 12:24 PM
I'm sure the Browns thought Tim Couch would play his entire career with them. I'm also pretty sure the Panthers felt the same way about Kerry Collins after he took them to the NFC Championship Game in just his second season.

aj.
05-13-2004, 12:33 PM
By the time Carr's cap hit escalates to the $7-8 million range, guys like McNabb, Culpepper, Vick, McNair, Farve (if he's still playing), and of course Manning's contracts will dwarf those numbers I hate to tell you this, but Carr's cap hit is over 7 million next year. It's not some far away future number. It's here.

As far as comparisons to other QBs, It's not fair to compare the contracts of 7+ year vets who have led their team to the playoffs or won SB's to a guy in the 3rd or 4th year of his rookie contract. Vick is the only valid comparison of the ones you list (as is Leftwich, Palmer, Harrington, and Ramsey) since they're only a year apart.

Carr will make more than Vick in the first three years of their respective contracts. Carr will make $16.25 million in the first three years of his contract and Vick made $15.3 million (they have the same agent - Mike Sullivan).


I guess Carr taking a record number of sacks behind the worst O-line in NFL history means nothing to you..Far from it. The first year was a gimme as far as I'm concerned, a free ride. What that meant to me was that we had a terrible OL and Carr got the **** beat out of him.


Would any of the QBs I've listed above have taken the Texans to the playoffs in the 1st two season?..Probably not, but I'm not sure what that has to do with what Carr's salary will be in 2005.


Bash Carr for this, that, and the other thing, but the earning it stuff is a load. He's earned his money thus far...Who's bashing Carr? Did I say he didn't earn his salary in '02 and '03? No. What I did say is that he's not a top ten QB. Sure, he could become one this year, but that's not a given. What's a given is that his salary is about to become a top ten salary so (and what I said earlier was) his performance on the field better warrant that salary. In other words, "he will become very expensive next year so he better start earning it" as opposed to the way I looked at it the first two seasons, i.e., cut him some slack (but still expect steady improvement) because they were learning years and he had marginal talent around him.


Just in case you haven't noticed me say this at any time over the last two years, I like Carr. It's just that I expect a lot more out of him now (like throwing more TDs than Ints for starters) since he is beginning to get paid like a big time QB.

wags
05-13-2004, 12:35 PM
I never considered Tim Couch or Collins to be a better QB than Carr coming out of college. I don't think Carson is any better either. Time will tell, but DC should be a Texan for life.

Vinny
05-13-2004, 12:40 PM
I never considered Tim Couch or Collins to be a better QB than Carr coming out of college.
Couch outplayed Carr his first year. He was also on an expansion team and had Chris Palmer as his Offensive coach too. Couch had more TD's than INT's in his first year. Carr has yet to pull this off.

wags
05-13-2004, 12:59 PM
Well, Aikman had more INT's than TD's his first two years (9td,18int and 11td,18int) and still had a good career. I don't put much stock in first year stats. Going into the draft I didn't think Couch or Palmer were great #1 overall picks. I firmly believe Carson will be a bust in his NFL career.

Lucky
05-13-2004, 04:10 PM
...but like I said, he better start earning it because he's not a top ten QB and his salary is about to become just that.


Who's bashing Carr? Did I say he didn't earn his salary in '02 and '03? No.
Maybe you didn't say that Carr hadn't earned his money to date. But to me, your using the phrase "start earning it" implied that Carr hadn't done so thus far. You didn't actually mean that, so my inference was faulty. But that was where my point was coming from.

Sure, Carr needs to earn his money in the future via his performance and the teams success. So to some extent do the rest of the top salary guys like Glenn, Walker, Robaire, AJ, etc. But, Carr's success or failure is directly tied to that of the organization, Casserly on down. Carr's development would be a validation for Casserly & Capers. Carr becoming a disappointment would have a trickle down effect because heís the signature player. Iím putting my money (tickets, apparel, internet wagers) where my keyboard is, and saying that the Texans are right and that Carr will be a big winner.

aj.
05-13-2004, 07:27 PM
Maybe you didn't say that Carr hadn't earned his money to date. But to me, your using the phrase "start earning it" implied that Carr hadn't done so thus far..Yeah, I can see where that might have been confusing. Sorry I wasn't clearer.

Sure, Carr needs to earn his money in the future via his performance and the teams success. So to some extent do the rest of the top salary guys like Glenn, Walker, Robaire, AJ, etc... Glenn and Walker are Pro Bowlers. They still need to perform to justify their salaries but they have earned star status...something that Carr still needs to work on.

Agree that Robaire (and Wade) both need to perform at a very high level for a few years to get satisfactory return on investment.

AJ's contract is really quite manageable throughout its term... no major jumps in base or backloading. He has one voidable year in '09.

The top five Texans cap numbers this year are:

Sharper, Jamie $6,125,000
Glenn, Aaron $5,150,000
Coleman, Marcus $4,305,750
Payne, Seth $4,175,000
Wong, Kailee $3,800,000

steve_rutledge
05-13-2004, 07:43 PM
Personally, I think Carr deserves every dime he gets. So what if he owns the record for being sacked in a season (76). Everyone grows at different rates. Personally he has a better arm than Vick. Vick likes to throw the long ball to much. Carr can make all the throws. I know I mat step on toes with this but oh well. If someone is truely a fan, they wouldn't worry about what a players cap figure is.

wags
05-13-2004, 07:52 PM
If someone is truely a fan, they wouldn't worry about what a players cap figure is.
Unfortunately with the salary cap you do have to worry about your players cap hit, or he may be playing for another team later on. I like the salary cap, but there are going to be a lot less truly franchise players.

aj.
05-13-2004, 07:55 PM
If someone is truely a fan, they wouldn't worry about what a players cap figure is.As long as a player's performance is among the best, I don't have a problem with his pay being among the best. Maybe it's just me but I like to see bang for the buck. Since I buy season tickets, I like to see value and I expect to see performance that's commensurate to pay.

Lucky
05-13-2004, 08:48 PM
Part of me agrees with steve that I'd rather not know what a player makes. But since there is a salary cap and teams do have to make decisions based as much on that as actual performance, it's better to know. The salary info provides some insight into why a team has to cut or not re-sign your favorite player and therefore reduces the criticism.

This may just be wishful thinking on my part, but when this CBA expires I'd like to see changes that would make it easier for a team to re-sign players they drafted. Such as having a player drafted by said team 5+ years prior count only 80% of his cap value on his 2nd contract (and beyond). This might make a player more likely to stay with his original team, and keep some continuity. I'd also like to see more of the "pay for play" bonus money become available. Maybe reduce (or not grow) the rookie pool and give more cash to the young guys who actually perform, regardless of where they're drafted.

infantrycak
05-13-2004, 08:52 PM
If someone is truely a fan, they wouldn't worry about what a players cap figure is.

OK, you just got two other responses on this so don't take this as a dog pile, but with a hard cap there are really two ends to the worries (1) one paying too much for a player that underperforms (the worry seeing that Carr has not yet performed at top 10 level but will soon get paid that way) and (2) paying a player so much that the team suffers more from the cap than it does from his talent (Peyton Manning).

If a QB is just going to be a yeoman game manager then he needs to get less money to put players around him that make them look better. If a QB is going to suck up 25% of the team's cap, they better be able to get scrubs to score 35 pts per game or they aren't worth it. Hopefully, Carr's character and hard work turns into on field performance justifying the money he is set to earn.

steve_rutledge
05-13-2004, 09:40 PM
I understand that you got to look at the cap and a player should perform what he is paid but honestly, i don't worry about the cap. The cap is a good thing cuz if it wasn't in place, ticket prices would skyrocket.

Vinny
05-13-2004, 10:39 PM
A great thing about being an NFL fan is you can be a fan in different ways. Some guys like to comb over every angle of the NFL from ownership and cap issues to the color scheme. Some guys just like the game itself and the complexity of 11 men working together on the field at once. Some people just like rah-rah stuff and only love the excitement of the atmosphere and donít want to bother with issues such as pay.

Most of us love it all, but you can be a fan of the NFL in many different ways. One of the deeper ways to follow the NFL is thru the cap and management structure. If you like to see why guys are let go, get traded, or get released, then you will look into pay issues more often than the casual fan. It all depends on the level of complexity you want to experience. One day your favorite player will get cut or released and you will not understand why. Someone like aj. may come along and explain it to you if you do not choose to follow or understand the cap. Enjoy the diversity each fan brings. It is not a bad thing. It is a good thing.

aj.
05-14-2004, 07:21 AM
The cap is a good thing cuz if it wasn't in place, ticket prices would skyrocket.The cap and revenue sharing is a good thing because, unlike MLB, it helps level the playing field financially between all 32 teams. It eliminates (theoretically at least) the have's and have nots. If you liked the age of dynasties, it's possible that you don't like the age of salary cap, however, as teams get smarter in how to manage the cap, it's possible to have teams make multiple runs at greatness year after year.

I don't really get off to this cap stuff, I just do it because it's such an integral part of team/organizational decisions. I started doing it because I saw a lot of questions and comments coming from people (who didn't pay attention to cap) like "why didn't we go sign player x?" Knowing where the team sits financially helps you understand whether some of that stuff is even possible.

I prefer to go to games, talk x's and o's, read about the NFL, watch old games/highlights on tv, tailgate, and do all the rest of the normal fan stuff much more than I "like" doing the cap ****ola. If fact, I thought seriously about discontinuing the cap sheet earlier this year because it is absolutely not a labor of love and it's very difficult to come by accurate information unless you have insider contacts which I have very few. What I don't like is putting inaccurate information out there and as you can read from the disclaimer on the cap sheet, there are inaccuracies in the sheet that I haven't been able to reconcile. That's why I always welcome help from those who might have some insider info.