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View Full Version : Chew on this:Unbelieveable


Wolf
10-10-2006, 12:05 PM
http://www.houstonprofootball.com/draft/2002/
David Carr *updated 7/5*
Jabar Gaffney
Chester Pitts
Fred Weary
Charles Hill
Jonathan Wells
Jarrod Baxter
Ramon Walker
Demarcus Faggins
Howard Green
Greg White
Ahmad Miller
http://www.houstonprofootball.com/draft/2003/
Andre Johnson
Bennie Joppru
Antwaan Peek *updated 7/5*
Seth Wand
Dave Ragone
Domanick Davis *updated 7/5*
Drew Henson
Keith Wright
Curry Burns
>> Chance Pearce
http://www.houstonprofootball.com/draft/2004/
Dunta Robinson
Jason Babin *updated 7/5*
Glenn Earl
Vontez Duff
Jammal Lord
Charlie Anderson *updated 7/5*
Raheem Orr
Sloan Thomas
B.J. Symons

http://www.houstonprofootball.com/draft/2005/

Travis Johnson
Vernand Morency
Jerome Mathis Drew Hodgdon
Drew Hodgdon
C.C. Brown
Kenneth Pettway

http://www.houstonprofootball.com/draft/2006/
Mario Williams
DeMeco Ryans
Charles Spencer
Eric Winston
Owen Daniels
Wali Lundy*updated 7/5*
David Anderson

http://football.about.com/library/weekly/bl_expansiondraft.htm
Tony Boselli
Ryan Young
Aaron Glenn
Gary Walker
Jamie Sharper
Jermaine Lewis
Marcus Coleman
Seth Payne *updated 7/5*
Matt Campbell
Matt Stevens
Jeremy McKinney
Ryan Schau
Charlie Rogers
Sean McDermott
Jabari Issa
Avion Black
Danny Wuerffel
Brian Allen
Johnny Huggins


and we gave a 2nd for hollings and 6th round to milford brown

Wolf
10-10-2006, 12:09 PM
21 players has stayed out of 65 players
*edit* 14 out of 65*
unbelievable draft record

if my math is right

jerek
10-10-2006, 12:09 PM
FYI Raheem Orr = Shantee Orr.

And yes, the foibles of our previous regime are painfully apparent. Good compilation, puts everything in depressing perspective.

Hey, it could be worse. We could be the Lions!

Wolf
10-10-2006, 12:11 PM
FYI Raheem Orr = Shantee Orr.

And yes, the foibles of our previous regime are painfully apparent. Good compilation, puts everything in depressing perspective.

Hey, it could be worse. We could be the Lions!

thanks I missed and made the changes .. going through I scanned over AJ and Daunte too LOL

Cjeremy635
10-10-2006, 12:13 PM
They brought up this exact thing this morning on 610....way to steal their thunder..lol .:spy: :cowboy1:

Wolf
10-10-2006, 12:14 PM
They brought up this exact thing this morning on 610....way to steal their thunder..lol .:spy: :cowboy1:

wish I could listen to 610 to hear the responses
:thud:

Lucky
10-10-2006, 12:23 PM
FYI Raheem Orr = Shantee Orr
Raheem Orr, an OLB conversion from Rutgers, was a Texans 7th round pick in '04. Shantee was picked up on waivers from Green Bay in '03 (his rookie year).

Charlie Anderson is the draft pick who should be in bold.

That list is just depressing.

gtexan02
10-10-2006, 12:25 PM
#1 - Raheem Orr is not Shantee Orr
#2 - I posted this last night in the NFL forum, heres the link:

Wolf
10-10-2006, 12:27 PM
noted..

I don't think the Florida Marlins had this much turnover :hides:

gtexan02
10-10-2006, 12:28 PM
Forgot the link: http://forums.houstontexans.com/showthread.php?t=29461

We have drafted pretty crappily over the years:

2002 -
Carr, Pitts, Weary, Faggins still here.
Carr has taken 5 years to develop, Gaffney was a bust, Pitts has been average, Weary has underachieved, and the rest of our 9 picks (except for Faggins) have been useless.

2003 -
Johnson, Peek, Davis still here.
Johnson is our best draft choice yet, Peek has underachieved, Davis has been great but is always hurt and his career may be over. Hollings, Joppru, Wand and the rest of them were flops.

2004 -
Robinson, Babin, Earl still here.
We gave up WAY too much for Babin, an underachiever. Robinson is hit or miss, Earl should be a backup, and the rest aren't even on the team.

2005 -
TJ, Brown, Hodgon, Mathis
TJ is an enigma, Brown should be a backup, Hodgon may not even be serviceable as a backup, mathis is uncoachable and injury prone, Buchannon (our 2nd and 3rd rounder) has been a COMPLETE debacle.

We have had some tough years building through the draft!

V Man
10-10-2006, 12:33 PM
Vontez Duff- forgot about him. I remember when he was drafted, everyone thought he was the replacement for JJ Moses.

Wolf
10-10-2006, 12:36 PM
I wonder how many of our picks are even still in the NFL

Marcus
10-10-2006, 12:38 PM
21 players has stayed out of 65 players

unbelievable draft record

if my math is right

How do those numbers compare to other teams for those years? Say, the Steelers, Broncos, Cowboys, or Patriots? Just curious. It would be interesting to see exactly how bad our drafting was, as compared to other teams.

Runner
10-10-2006, 12:40 PM
How do those numbers compare to other teams for those years? Say, the Steelers, Broncos, Cowboys, or Patriots?

Just curious. It would be interesting to see exactly how bad our drafting was, as compared to other teams.

That would be interesting to see, although I think the Steelers are one of the teams that are very successful in the draft. We'd have to look at a cross-section of the league to see a fair picture.

gtexan02
10-10-2006, 12:40 PM
How do those numbers compare to other teams for those years? Say, the Steelers, Broncos, Cowboys, or Patriots? Just curious. It would be interesting to see exactly how bad our drafting was, as compared to other teams.

Its not just that there arne't many on the team, its that the ones still on the team are terrible. There are few Texans that have been drafted that could start anywhere else left on this team.

Marcus
10-10-2006, 12:43 PM
Its not just that there arne't many on the team, its that the ones still on the team are terrible. There are few Texans that have been drafted that could start anywhere else left on this team.

Like who?

And I would still like some numbers, for comparison.

TexanSam
10-10-2006, 12:46 PM
It's not hard to see why we've been terrible.

Wolf
10-10-2006, 12:53 PM
top that off

do I count 3 that are injured?

starters out of that according to the official website.
12 (or should I say #1 on depth chart due to DL rotates a bunch)

http://www.houstontexans.com/team/depth_chart.php?section=TH%20Depth%20Chart

Texan in Japan
10-10-2006, 12:53 PM
While that sounds bad, I wonder from just the draft perspective how we compare with other teams? I remember looking at that 2002 draft and really that was a weak class. There were some good players, but overall it was not very deep or talented.

I think we should have done better given the positions we drafted from, however, the draft is as much art as science...sometimes I think we focused on the biology and missed the beautiful sunset...or was that saw the big muscles and didn't see the puny heart inside.

Thankfully this year we got some heart...go Ryans!

infantrycak
10-10-2006, 01:28 PM
FYI Raheem Orr = Shantee Orr.

Nope. Raheem Orr was a LB drafted out of Rutgers. Shantee Orr was an undrafted free agent out of Michigan.

infantrycak
10-10-2006, 01:38 PM
Well here is how the team who drafted #2 behind us (Carolina) has done in the same time period:

2002
Rd Sel# Player Pos. School
1 2 Julius Peppers DE North Carolina
2 34 DeShaun Foster RB UCLA
3 73 Will Witherspoon OLB Georgia--now in St. Louis
4 100 Dante Wesley CB Arkansas-Pine Bluff--now in Chicago
5 137 Randy Fasani QB Stanford--out of NFL
6 174 Keith Heinrich TE Sam Houston State--now in TB
7 213 Pete Campion G North Dakota State--out of NFL
7 258 Brad Franklin CB Louisiana-Lafayette--out of NFL

2003
Rd Sel# Player Pos. School
1 8 Jordan Gross T Utah
2 50 Bruce Nelson C Iowa--out of NFL
3 76 Mike Seidman TE UCLA--on IR
3 82 Ricky Manning CB UCLA--gone to Chicago
4 119 Colin Branch S Stanford--backup
5 145 Kindal Moorehead DT Alabama--backup
7 226 Walter Young WR Illinois--out of NFL
7 247 Casey Moore RB Stanford--out of NFL

2004
Rd Sel# Player Pos. School
1 28 Chris Gamble CB Ohio State
2 62 Keary Colbert WR Southern California
3 94 Travelle Wharton T South Carolina--on IR
5 163 Drew Carter WR Ohio State-backup
6 196 Sean Tufts LB Colorado--out of NFL
7 232 Michael Gaines TE Central Florida--backup

2005
Rd Sel# Player Pos. School
1 14 Thomas Davis SS Georgia
2 54 Eric Shelton RB Louisville
3 79 Evan Mathis G Alabama--backup
3 89 Atiyyah Ellison DT Missouri--out of NFL
4 121 Stefan LeFors QB Louisville--out of NFL
5 149 Adam Seward OLB Nevada-Las Vegas
5 169 Geoff Hangartner C Texas A&M--backup
5 171 Ben Emanuel S UCLA--out of NFL
6 189 Jovan Haye DE Vanderbilt--gone to Cleveland
6 207 Joe Berger G Michigan Tech--gone to Miami

Lucky
10-10-2006, 01:57 PM
I wonder how many of our picks are even still in the NFL
A total of 25 picks over 5 years.

The 21 guys on the Texans you have highlighted.

Four former Texan draft picks on other NFL teams:

Jabar Gaffney (New England) from '02
Milford Brown (Arizona) from the '02 supplemental
Curry Burns (Washington) from '03
None from '04
Vernand Morency (Green Bay) from '05
None from '06

Tennessee's haul over the same period: 31 on the team, 4 on other teams
Indianapolis' haul over the same period: 22 on the team, 4 on other teams
Jacksonville's haul over the same period: 27 on the team, 2 on other teams

That is just brutal.

jerek
10-10-2006, 01:58 PM
Nope. Raheem Orr was a LB drafted out of Rutgers. Shantee Orr was an undrafted free agent out of Michigan.

Seriously?

Well crap.

I was going on memory and don't have a link. I'll take your word for it.

Wolf
10-10-2006, 02:23 PM
A total of 25 picks over 5 years.

The 21 guys on the Texans you have highlighted.

Four former Texan draft picks on other NFL teams:

Jabar Gaffney (New England) from '02
Milford Brown (Arizona) from the '02 supplemental
Curry Burns (Washington) from '03
None from '04
Vernand Morency (Green Bay) from '05
None from '06

Tennessee's haul over the same period: 31 on the team, 4 on other teams
Indianapolis' haul over the same period: 22 on the team, 4 on other teams
Jacksonville's haul over the same period: 27 on the team, 2 on other teams

That is just brutal.


wow

edo783
10-10-2006, 02:27 PM
Soooo, basically, we were ~30% worse at drafting than most any other team. Not a good thing. Based on this years action, I expect we will be much improved on that from here on out. Crosse your fingers.

V Man
10-10-2006, 02:28 PM
Tennessee's haul over the same period: 31 on the team, 4 on other teams
Indianapolis' haul over the same period: 22 on the team, 4 on other teams
Jacksonville's haul over the same period: 27 on the team, 2 on other teams


Tennessee: How many of those are Texans draft picks.
Indy and Jacksonville: two established teams have more on their roster than an expansion team. Pretty sad.

hollywood_texan
10-10-2006, 02:31 PM
I remember reading an article about the Buchannon trade, and Casserly said we really just gave up a 2nd round pick for a 1st round pick, reasoning was Buchannon was a 1st round pick a few years earlier.

As for the 3rd round pick we also gave up for Buchannon, Casserly said that a 3rd pick has a hard time making the team, much less being a starter. I am paraphrasing a little here. He was basically saying you really shouldn't count the 3rd round pick as important in the trade for Buchannon.

I think that faulty logic is a clear sign of the issues in the first four years of drafting, expansion draft, and free agency.

Granted, players move a lot in the league, but a lot of guys drafted by Casserly are no longer in the league.

Casserly was really clueless and probably Capers didn't speak up and towed the line.

thunderkyss
10-10-2006, 02:49 PM
Tennessee's haul over the same period: 31 on the team, 4 on other teams
Indianapolis' haul over the same period: 22 on the team, 4 on other teams
Jacksonville's haul over the same period: 27 on the team, 2 on other teams

Well I guess that blows that theory out of the water.

Tennessee has more than us, Indy about the same........

What are these numbers really saying??

Texans86
10-10-2006, 02:58 PM
Well I guess that blows that theory out of the water.

Tennessee has more than us, Indy about the same........

What are these numbers really saying??

It really depends how many draft picks they had total. The percentage of players drafted is probably more important than the actual number. Kind of like the lotto, hopefully with more tickets, you have a better chance of winning.

Cjeremy635
10-10-2006, 03:06 PM
I remember reading an article about the Buchannon trade, and Casserly said we really just gave up a 2nd round pick for a 1st round pick, reasoning was Buchannon was a 1st round pick a few years earlier.

As for the 3rd round pick we also gave up for Buchannon, Casserly said that a 3rd pick has a hard time making the team, much less being a starter. I am paraphrasing a little here. He was basically saying you really shouldn't count the 3rd round pick as important in the trade for Buchannon.

I think that faulty logic is a clear sign of the issues in the first four years of drafting, expansion draft, and free agency.

Granted, players move a lot in the league, but a lot of guys drafted by Casserly are no longer in the league.

Casserly was really clueless and probably Capers didn't speak up and towed the line.


They said this morning that he "threw in" the 3rd round pick. Oakland was only going to try and get a third for P-Buch then they found out how hard up we were for him and decided to play a little hard ball to see if we would cave and sure enough.....we over compensated again. Charlie's thought process on that was that we were "technically" only giving up a sixth round pick plus a second rounder because we had aquired that third round pick that we gave away from Dallas for the Drew Henson trade which we drafted him in the sixth, IIRC. Either way, we over gave again for someone who doesn't really contribute a whole lot to the team and I would like to see who we could have drafted with those two picks. Hindsight is 20/20.....I know that, but still looking back at it I didn't think it was going to pan out too well. I guess they thought that giving him a scenery change would do wonders for his attitude/game play..:ok:

Marcus
10-10-2006, 03:09 PM
Well I guess that blows that theory out of the water.

Tennessee has more than us, Indy about the same........

What are these numbers really saying??

More like, what are they trying to say with these numbers?

Battle Red Flash
10-10-2006, 03:12 PM
2006 is already our best draft.
Factor in Moulds because we gave up a pick for him, and '06 looks nice.

Battle Red Flash
10-10-2006, 03:18 PM
Thankfully this year we got some heart...go Ryans!

Hey, where are you at in Germany?
Are you military?
I was there in 86-87 in Schweinfurt in the Army.
Get yourself to Heidleberg to see the lighting of the castle!
& to Neuschuanstein to see the Disney castle.

Lucky
10-10-2006, 03:51 PM
It really depends how many draft picks they had total.
From '02 - '06:
Texans - 46 draft picks
Colts - 42 draft picks
Jags - 41 draft picks
Titans - 50 draft picks

Grid
10-10-2006, 05:28 PM
21 of 65 is about 31%.

I dont know the exact numbers.. but I know that 50% is considered an awesome draft ratio. Id bet that we are doing "average" in our drafts.. not terrible.

And our first day draft picks look like they have a very positive ratio..

Also.. we didnt drop Morency, we traded him for Gado.. thats not the same as a "bust".

The expansion draft for us was also a bum deal.. I bet if it was possible for us to see a list of what players were available to us in the expansion draft, and could compare it against which players we got.. it wouldnt look so terrible.

ArlingtonTexan
10-10-2006, 05:42 PM
21 of 65 is about 31%.

I dont know the exact numbers.. but I know that 50% is considered an awesome draft ratio. Id bet that we are doing "average" in our drafts.. not terrible.

And our first day draft picks look like they have a very positive ratio..

Also.. we didnt drop Morency, we traded him for Gado.. thats not the same as a "bust".

The expansion draft for us was also a bum deal.. I bet if it was possible for us to see a list of what players were available to us in the expansion draft, and could compare it against which players we got.. it wouldnt look so terrible.


Parcells says the 50% of draft picks making it is a good rate all the time.

Beyond the pure numbers or percentage of draft picks making on the roster, measuring their impact is import. I think someone did a study (no link) a couple years back that every Superbowl winner has had at least one 5th round or later (including UDFA) who was a significant starter if not pro-bowl level player. These were limited to players who were orginally with thier organization if I remember this correctly.

mexican_texan
10-10-2006, 05:47 PM
Deja dit. This thread was around half a year ago. The GM was fired/stepped down.

TK_Gamer
10-10-2006, 06:21 PM
personally I think this a waste of time comparing the past decisions to present rosters. lets look at how many picks from each team made the pro bowl in the last 4 years. I think you will see we are probably average or a little over in draft success. having young players good enough to make the probowl is rare. then you have to know WHY each team kept each player, some had long term contracts and alot of guaranteed money wich made them cheaper to keep 3 years than get rid of, some had injuries early on and couldnt be released or traded, you can go round and round all time decrypting stuff like this and never learn anything. I'm more concerned with the decent players we had that we no longer have like Glenn, Sharper, Mcree, Walker, Smith. all defensive players that would make us better right now. some had injury issues but still would improve our depth. heck we rotate our D-lineman like every play anyway. Walker and Sharper were the heart of our defense at one time, and I thought Mcree was a decent FS compared to the others we've had. what the heck It's all a crap shoot when you come down to it.

devo-x
10-10-2006, 09:23 PM
2005 -
TJ, Brown, Hodgon, Mathis
TJ is an enigma, Brown should be a backup, Hodgon may not even be serviceable as a backup, mathis is uncoachable and injury prone, Buchannon (our 2nd and 3rd rounder) has been a COMPLETE debacle.


What do you mean by the comment about Mathis? Uncoachable ... Please explain.

phan1
10-11-2006, 12:28 AM
People should really give draft ratings AFTER rookies have had a chance to play. Not Before. :brickwall I wonder how bad we are compared to other teams...

Bamaborn-Texasbred
10-11-2006, 08:47 AM
The thing I heard that really made my head turn was that Jabbar Gaffney was drafted ahead of Clinton Portis! I don't know if there is any truth to that, but wouldn't Portis look good in that Battle Red jersey?

Wolf
10-16-2006, 04:55 PM
forgot to add P-buch in the deal (gave up 2 1st day picks)and he is gone now.