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kastofsna
10-08-2006, 03:02 PM
Punt return for a TD.

gtexan02
10-08-2006, 03:09 PM
The triple threat finally succeeds in at least 1 facet of the game.

V Man
10-08-2006, 03:11 PM
It is amazing how fast it gets posted on this board.:brickwall

Wolf
10-08-2006, 03:11 PM
congrats to reggie

GuerillaBlack
10-08-2006, 03:13 PM
He didn't even have to use any of his "juking" moves. Just straight up speed on the right side (away from the Bucs, who were mainly on the left). Good job Reggie.

AtheGreat
10-08-2006, 03:13 PM
greeaatttt. you can go ahead and get used to that clip becuase its gonna be on every SportsCenter this week. lets see how fast thoses talking heads can backpedal as they go from "he's been a bit of a dissapointment" to " Reggie=god". 3.3 seconds is my guess.

Mr teX
10-08-2006, 03:13 PM
congrats to reggie

Cosign, he was bound to make a play at some point.

TexansBull
10-08-2006, 03:13 PM
Funny. I was watching the pregame on fox and they said reggie has not made any tds because of his slightly injured ankles. Hmm. Ankles must be feeling better.

RTP2110
10-08-2006, 03:13 PM
It is amazing how fast it gets posted on this board.:brickwall

By a Dolphins fan.

TFL
10-08-2006, 03:14 PM
Bet we hear more about this then we did when mario got his first sack. On all sports station even on our news stations.

Mysteryhunt
10-08-2006, 03:14 PM
thats one expensive mathis!!

Marcus
10-08-2006, 03:18 PM
thats one expensive mathis!!
lol: :highfive:

kastofsna
10-08-2006, 03:19 PM
By a Dolphins fan.
yeah my game was over, so i switched over to the bucs. boy they are having a tough year. gradkowski looks like the REAL deal though, seriously.

so does matt leinart, btw. 50 yard TD pass to anquan boldin on the 2nd pass of the game.

edit: holy crap another TD for leinart. 5 for 5, 2 TD's. rookies are doing great today.

V Man
10-08-2006, 03:21 PM
By a Dolphins fan.

Dolphin fan, Texans fan or Saints fan doesn't matter. Probably posted to our board faster than on a Saints board.

kastofsna
10-08-2006, 03:24 PM
Dolphin fan, Texans fan or Saints fan doesn't matter. Probably posted to our board fast than on a Saints board.
nah i waited to hear the penalty before making a post. there was a flag and everyone was acting like it was coming back, but twas a facemask on the bucs.

TexansBull
10-08-2006, 03:31 PM
Bet we hear more about this then we did when mario got his first sack. On all sports station even on our news stations.

What kills me is our great proclaimed "General" who recently won a new paper weight, is busy starring in movies, and writing a movie script will probably hype this up more than Marios sack and a half. Right below his article about VY, ofcourse. His title for the win was:"Texans get refreshing change: Victory." :crazy:

C'mon he could do better. He still shows dissatisfaction with Mario being the pick. He could have said "Mario gets first sack in Texans win." Something. Throw me a bone.

NEROtheZERO
10-08-2006, 03:40 PM
I don't see why it is out of line for this to be posted on our board. It is in the NFL section and it is the first TD for a former Heisman winner, highly touted in the draft, that there was a large chance we were going to draft. You people so zealous in your distaste for Bush are the same as the people zealously in love with his potential. Two sides of the same coin.

Congrats to Bush.

kastofsna
10-08-2006, 03:42 PM
Bet we hear more about this then we did when mario got his first sack. On all sports station even on our news stations.

well there is a difference between a sack and a game-winning punt return for a TD.

gtexan02
10-08-2006, 03:45 PM
well there is a difference between a sack and a game-winning punt return for a TD.

Don't use logic! The reggie haters can't stand that.

Its so insane how the same people bash Bush week in and week out, and then complain that there is too much talk about him. For whatever its worth, MW and RB aren't linked in anything mroe than name. Their fates do not dictate anything about the other. I wish people would just be happy for both.

TFL
10-08-2006, 03:46 PM
well there is a difference between a sack and a game-winning punt return for a TD.

But the sack help win the game also it got every body pumped. Yea it was nice TD, but the sack was just as important. If he did not do it who knows if the crowd would have been that pumped or even if the players would have been that pumped, and if we did not get that pumped what would have happened.

TexansBull
10-08-2006, 03:47 PM
well there is a difference between a sack and a game-winning punt return for a TD.

Actually, it was a sack to end a drive that Miami had that could have ended in a game winning score. And there was that tipped pass he deflected on the 2pt try. Yeah, nothing serious. Just a controversial pick making big plays they dont wont him to make.

TFL
10-08-2006, 03:48 PM
Don't use logic! The reggie haters can't stand that.

Its so insane how the same people bash Bush week in and week out, and then complain that there is too much talk about him. For whatever its worth, MW and RB aren't linked in anything mroe than name. Their fates do not dictate anything about the other. I wish people would just be happy for both.

I am not a Reggie Hater I don't mind him getting attention It was a game saving TD, but when mario gets a sack that pumped up everyody I just feel he should get some attention from it. I heard very little about mario sack.

Wolf
10-08-2006, 03:48 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6XKSdld1mY

there you go.

kastofsna
10-08-2006, 03:52 PM
Yea it was nice TD, but the sack was just as important.
no......WAY.

TFL
10-08-2006, 03:53 PM
no......WAY.

yes......Way.

kastofsna
10-08-2006, 03:56 PM
Actually, it was a sack to end a drive that Miami had that could have ended in a game winning score. And there was that tipped pass he deflected on the 2pt try. Yeah, nothing serious. Just a controversial pick making big plays they dont wont him to make.
the sack was on 1st down and the .5 sack came on 2nd down. it was at the start of the 4th quarter. it's still not been confirmed that williams even tipped the ball.

it's not even close. not. even. close.

NEROtheZERO
10-08-2006, 03:57 PM
no......WAY.

I can't tell if you are being facetious but if you were at the game you would have felt the momentum shift caused by the sack. A sack isn't worth 6 points but it was easily a game changing play.

TexansBull
10-08-2006, 03:59 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6XKSdld1mY

there you go.

I love it. "Williams and Ryans" the announcer said. Sounds just as good as "Carr to Johnson."

Marios head almost touched his ankles when he leaned back and yelled to get that gorrilla off his back.

Off topic: I go coon hunting(No i dont eat them) but I love a dog that trees and throws his head back on the tree. Anyone else who is a hunter knows what I am talking about. Mario reminded me of that.

TFL
10-08-2006, 03:59 PM
the sack was on 1st down and the .5 sack came on 2nd down. it was at the start of the 4th quarter. it's still not been confirmed that williams even tipped the ball.

it's not even close. not. even. close.

Lets say he did not get the sack and culpepper gets some yards the crowd and the team would have not been as pumped, and who knows if they would have scored on that series. It put the Dolphins in a hole, and they had a hard time digging themselves out with that 1.5 sacks.

TD
10-08-2006, 04:03 PM
Nice play for Reggie. It should take some pressure off. At the same time, he still looks incredibly mediocre on offense while on pretty darn good offensive team. For his sake, I hope he improves on that 3 yard per carry average.

kastofsna
10-08-2006, 04:03 PM
I can't tell if you are being facetious but if you were at the game you would have felt the momentum shift caused by the sack. A sack isn't worth 6 points but it was easily a game changing play.
the dolphins put up their best offensive performance in the game following that drive. what momentum?

reggie bush's TD won the game. how can one say the sack was more important?

NEROtheZERO
10-08-2006, 04:05 PM
the dolphins put up their best offensive performance in the game following that drive. what momentum?

reggie bush's TD won the game. how can one say the sack was more important?

I didn't say that but to think that Mario's sack wasn't a game changer is foolish. Like I said, a sack isn't worth 6 points but the first pick in the draft's first career sack, which electrified a stadium, is not negligable.

TexansBull
10-08-2006, 04:06 PM
the sack was on 1st down and the .5 sack came on 2nd down. it was at the start of the 4th quarter. it's still not been confirmed that williams even tipped the ball.

it's not even close. not. even. close.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6020278


Consider it confirmed. 3rd sentence. "Williams tipped a two-point conversion that would have tied the game..."

Reggie's game winning play and Mario's game saving play shows both are talented players and both will have success in this league. Just dont spin one players or anothers to make one look superior please.

nunusguy
10-08-2006, 04:07 PM
#2 overall huge price to pay for a special teams player.
We got one last year in the 4th round who went to the pro bowl as a rook.
Bush still completely ineffective in rushs from scrimmage. He was something
like 23 yards on 9 or 10 carrries, 'bout 2.5 per rush.
D. Mcalister on the other hand got 'bout 125 yards on 15 carriers for
8 yrd average for NOLA. He's their primary running back, Bush is a reserve
and will be while Mcalister is with NOLA.

jerek
10-08-2006, 04:07 PM
the sack was on 1st down and the .5 sack came on 2nd down. it was at the start of the 4th quarter. it's still not been confirmed that williams even tipped the ball.

it's not even close. not. even. close.

Ascribe it whatever importance you will but the tape clearly shows Mario Williams tipping the ball.

TFL
10-08-2006, 04:10 PM
the dolphins put up their best offensive performance in the game following that drive. what momentum?

reggie bush's TD won the game. how can one say the sack was more important?

A sack on the first two plays in that drive could have taken away 6 points. It stopped there drive. They did not even get it started . So if he did not get a sack on either one of those plays it would not have put them in a 3 and long situation, and I never said that it was more important I said they where both great.

TexansBull
10-08-2006, 04:11 PM
Ascribe it whatever importance you will but the tape clearly shows Mario Williams tipping the ball.

Atleast he is honest about being wrong. He must have been looking through Ms. Cleos crystal ball to watch the game.

Wolf
10-08-2006, 04:16 PM
Yes Bush got a PR TD that gave them the lead with 4:19 remaining.

Mairo's sack came with 14 minutes left in the 4th. that sack along with the .5 sack after that helped give the Texans great field position off of the Punt..... and we scored a TD on the next drive.

Miami Dolphins at 14:54
1-10-MIA20 (14:54) (Shotgun) D.Culpepper sacked at MIA 17 for -3 yards (M.Williams).
2-13-MIA17 (14:20) (Shotgun) D.Culpepper sacked at MIA 10 for -7 yards (sack split by D.Ryans and M.Williams).
3-20-MIA10 (13:40) (Shotgun) D.Culpepper pass incomplete deep middle to M.Booker (L.Sanders).
4-20-MIA10 (13:32) D.Jones punts 40 yards to 50, Center-J.Denney. P.Buchanon to MIA 41 for 9 yards (R.Hill). (Punt hang time 3.1 seconds.)
Houston Texans at 13:20
1-10-MIA41 (13:20) R.Dayne left guard to MIA 39 for 2 yards (V.Holliday).
2-8-MIA39 (12:43) D.Carr pass short right to R.Dayne to MIA 37 for 2 yards (D.Spragan, T.Daniels) [V.Holliday].
3-6-MIA37 (12:03) D.Carr pass deep left to A.Johnson to MIA 7 for 30 yards (T.Daniels; T.Tillman) [V.Holliday].
1-7-MIA7 (11:16) R.Dayne up the middle to MIA 4 for 3 yards (K.Carter, C.Crowder).
2-4-MIA4 (10:39) R.Dayne up the middle to MIA 3 for 1 yard (Z.Thomas).
3-3-MIA3 (9:54) D.Carr pass short left to A.Johnson for 3 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
K.Brown extra point is GOOD, Center-B.Pittman, Holder-C.Stanley.


http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbyplay/NFL_20061001_MIA@HOU

bottom line is both players helped their team win today!

kastofsna
10-08-2006, 04:17 PM
I didn't say that but to think that Mario's sack wasn't a game changer is foolish. Like I said, a sack isn't worth 6 points but the first pick in the draft's first career sack, which electrified a stadium, is not negligable.
i'm not disagreeing. i'm not even sure why i'm arguing here, i think bush is absurdly overrated, that mario williams was a great pick and the punt return wasn't even that great.

but....a game-winning TD is OBVIOUSLY going to get more coverage than a sack that really didn't factor into the finality of the game.

and everyone thinks booker slipping in the endzone was what ended that 2-pt play, not the tipped pass.

Wolf
10-08-2006, 04:18 PM
TWO-POINT CONVERSION ATTEMPT. R.Brown pass to C.Chambers is incomplete. ATTEMPT FAILS. (MIA 23 Brown attempted the halfback pass.) (Pass was tipped by HST 56 Greenwood.)


hmmm not sure now.. that is from the link above, I need video footage

NEROtheZERO
10-08-2006, 04:19 PM
i'm not disagreeing. i'm not even sure why i'm arguing here, i think bush is absurdly overrated, that mario williams was a great pick and the punt return wasn't even that great.

but....a game-winning TD is OBVIOUSLY going to get more coverage than a sack that really didn't factor into the finality of the game.

and everyone thinks booker slipping in the endzone was what ended that 2-pt play, not the tipped pass.

Of course. Just as a game winning HR would get more coverage than a diving catch or a clutch strike out. Scoring points will always be more glamorous than saving points.

kastofsna
10-08-2006, 04:21 PM
Of course. Just as a game winning HR would get more coverage than a diving catch or a clutch strike out. Scoring points will always be more glamorous than saving points.
well that's the reason this conversation started. some homer said "i bet this will get more coverage than mario's sack." yes...DUH.

TFL
10-08-2006, 04:24 PM
i'm not disagreeing. i'm not even sure why i'm arguing here, i think bush is absurdly overrated, that mario williams was a great pick and the punt return wasn't even that great.

but....a game-winning TD is OBVIOUSLY going to get more coverage than a sack that really didn't factor into the finality of the game.

and everyone thinks booker slipping in the endzone was what ended that 2-pt play, not the tipped pass.

The sack did have a factor in the end of the game. If he had not sacked culpepper on those plays the drive could have been started, and they could have scored. A sack is a huge factor in almost every game besides the games that are out of hand at the time. The Texans Dolphins game was very close 6-10 at the time i think. So it was a huge factor in the game.

dat_boy_yec
10-08-2006, 04:25 PM
the sack was on 1st down and the .5 sack came on 2nd down. it was at the start of the 4th quarter. it's still not been confirmed that williams even tipped the ball.

it's not even close. not. even. close.

How's it not been confirmed, maybe it's just you that doesn't wanna believe it, but we have eyes and we saw it. Mario kept us from going into overtime. Show the man his due credit.

Sorry, see this point was already made

TFL
10-08-2006, 04:26 PM
well that's the reason this conversation started. some homer said "i bet this will get more coverage than mario's sack." yes...DUH.

I am not a HOMER the sack should have gotten more coverage. They where covering on how he was not getting any sacks before the game, but when he does get a sack he does not get that much coverage. so there is no DUH about it.

Goldeagle
10-08-2006, 04:26 PM
He is on his way to a great Career as Rocket Ishmael!!!!

kastofsna
10-08-2006, 04:29 PM
I am not a HOMER the sack should have gotten more coverage. They where covering on how he was not getting any sacks before the game, but when he does get a sack he does not get that much coverage. so there is no DUH about it.
if you think it deserves more coverage than bush's TD, you're insane.

TFL
10-08-2006, 04:33 PM
if you think it deserves more coverage than bush's TD, you're insane.

I never said that he deserved more coverage you go back and find out where i did. I just said that Mario should have got more attention then what he did get. They should both get the same amount of attention.

TD
10-08-2006, 04:34 PM
and everyone thinks booker slipping in the endzone was what ended that 2-pt play, not the tipped pass.

Yes and no. He slipped trying to adjust after the tip changed the direction of the ball. Barring a drop, its two points if the ball's not tipped.

kastofsna
10-08-2006, 04:42 PM
I never said that he deserved more coverage you go back and find out where i did. I just said that Mario should have got more attention then what he did get. They should both get the same amount of attention.
Bet we hear more about this then we did when mario got his first sack. On all sports station even on our news stations.
this is a big "duh"

TFL
10-08-2006, 04:46 PM
this is a big "duh"

still no duh there, i did not say that mario should get more coverage I just saying that ESPN would show that play about a thousand times, and even our media would play that more then what they did for mario.

I don't see how you took that, and said that I wanted mario to get more coverage. I was just saying that Reggie was going to be all over the sports station when mario was not. I think that both players should be spoken of when they do something big. so still no duh.

Double Barrel
10-08-2006, 04:50 PM
Congrats to Reggie. I'm sure it'll be the first of many.

cbnjwill
10-08-2006, 04:50 PM
man that was a huge punt returns for the saints. cant believe this team is a pretty good 4-1 team this yr. compared to that mess of a team we saw last yr. bush hasnt put up the monster numbers i thought he would yet but he has been pretty solid and obviously has made a big impact on that team, along with brees coming in the saints look really good

Hottoddie
10-08-2006, 04:51 PM
Let it go guys. When we draft Adrian Peterson next year, the Bush fans will be too embarrassed to come in here & brag about his little accomplishments.

While it's true that he scored a game winning TD today, quite frankly, I don't give a damn. We didn't need a RB at the time. Thus, our front office didn't allow ESPN to lead them by the nose to select a player that was/is not NFL ready. And, as it turns out, wasn't even the best RB available in the draft.

Mario is our guy & it's a thrill watching him grow into the potential stud player that most of us believe he'll eventually be. Don't get frustrated about Bush getting all the air time on ESPN. Mario's time will come, & ESPN will hype him even moreso & try to erase all the memories of them having fully endorsed the RB bandwagon. Then we'll be able to change their acronym from the ESPN to the WUCN (Watch Us Crawfish Network).

StarStruck
10-08-2006, 04:56 PM
Let it go guys. When we draft Adrian Peterson next year, the Bush fans will be too embarrassed to come in here & brag about his little accomplishments.



Does that mean that the Texans are expected to lose the rest of their games? That isn't too exciting to a season ticket holder.

jlam
10-08-2006, 05:05 PM
Does that mean that the Texans are expected to lose the rest of their games? That isn't too exciting to a season ticket holder.

I was thinking the same thing. I would be hoping for more coming off of a win. I think the good news is that there should be several good, big running backs coming out next year (you guys claim to want a big, strong, one cut runner for your system). I think Peterson would fit that bill for sure, but also Michael Bush would be someone to look at if Peterson is gone (not to mention all the hype when you pick a RB named Bush haha).

Too bad McFadden from Arkansas is just a Sophmore. That guy is an absolute beast. That big with sub-4.4 speed. Monster.

Hottoddie
10-08-2006, 05:14 PM
Does that mean that the Texans are expected to lose the rest of their games? That isn't too exciting to a season ticket holder.

You have heard of trades, right? At the moment Peterson is projected to go in the 3-5 pick range. With Quinn & CJ as solid locks (at the moment) to be the first 2 picks, it'll just depend upon what the next teams are looking to get. Trading for a 3-5 pick will be a whole lot easier, & more affordable, than trading for one of the top 2 picks. Besides, unless we truely start getting our act together, we might not end up with more than 4-5 wins. That should put us in the top 10 picks.

On a more positive note, I'm still holding out for 9 W's this year. :redtowel: :homer:

kastofsna
10-08-2006, 05:16 PM
I was thinking the same thing. I would be hoping for more coming off of a win. I think the good news is that there should be several good, big running backs coming out next year (you guys claim to want a big, strong, one cut runner for your system). I think Peterson would fit that bill for sure, but also Michael Bush would be someone to look at if Peterson is gone (not to mention all the hype when you pick a RB named Bush haha).

Too bad McFadden from Arkansas is just a Sophmore. That guy is an absolute beast. That big with sub-4.4 speed. Monster.
marshawn lynch. marshawn lynch. marshawn lynch.

jlam
10-08-2006, 05:17 PM
And too bad you guys had a bye this week. The rookies are having a field day.

Bush, N.O.: been covered

Leinart, Cards: 2 TD's so far

Young, Tenn: So-so showing against the Colts as a QB, but 1 TD rushing and kept them close

Jones-Drew, Jags: 2 TD's so far

Gradkowski, Bucs: looked really good against us, but we have historically done that for rookie QB's

Jennings, G.B.: 100+ rec. yards and 1 TD. Looks like Farve's go-to guy.

Looks like the only big-name rookie to get not get on the board today was Maroney for the Pats. At this rate Williams might have gotten 4 sacks today.:hmmm:

jlam
10-08-2006, 05:18 PM
marshawn lynch. marshawn lynch. marshawn lynch.

Word. My bad on that omission.

Hottoddie
10-08-2006, 05:21 PM
but also Michael Bush would be someone to look at

This is the guy that I believe Kubiak would go after, but with his injury, I'll be surprised if he comes out this year. He most likely wouldn't be drafted until late in the 1st round, or worse yet, not until one of the later rounds. However, if he heals up & plays one more year like he's been playing, he could easily be a top 5 pick. That's a big difference when it comes to the money.

kastofsna
10-08-2006, 05:21 PM
And too bad you guys had a bye this week. The rookies are having a field day.

Bush, N.O.: been covered

Leinart, Cards: 2 TD's so far

Young, Tenn: So-so showing against the Colts as a QB, but 1 TD rushing and kept them close

Jones-Drew, Jags: 2 TD's so far

Gradkowski, Bucs: looked really good against us, but we have historically done that for rookie QB's

Jennings, G.B.: 100+ rec. yards and 1 TD. Looks like Farve's go-to guy.

Looks like the only big-name rookie to get not get on the board today was Maroney for the Pats. At this rate Williams might have gotten 4 sacks today.:hmmm:
leinart has played better today than kurt warner has in years. he threw a pass FIFTY YARDS into the endzone, RIGHT into bryant johnson's chest, and he dropped it. he's made quick decisions, he's looked off defenders, he's scrambled away from pressure, etc etc. looks like tom brady out there.

jlam
10-08-2006, 05:28 PM
This is the guy that I believe Kubiak would go after, but with his injury, I'll be surprised if he comes out this year. He most likely wouldn't be drafted until late in the 1st round, or worse yet, not until one of the later rounds. However, if he heals up & plays one more year like he's been playing, he could easily be a top 5 pick. That's a big difference when it comes to the money.

Yeah, it will be interesting to see if he comes out. But the thing is, if I'm thinking correctly here, he is no more likely to re-injure his broken leg once its healed than he was to break it in the first place. Yes, its a serious injury, but as far as re-habbing and coming back full strength goes, I would think it's one of the "better" injuries to a leg a RB could have.

IMO, it may be possible that he could slip to late first round if he came out due to coaches not seeing him play in so long, but no way he would slip past the second round barring him getting very out of shape and performing poorly at the combines.

jlam
10-08-2006, 05:31 PM
leinart has played better today than kurt warner has in years. he threw a pass FIFTY YARDS into the endzone, RIGHT into bryant johnson's chest, and he dropped it. he's made quick decisions, he's looked off defenders, he's scrambled away from pressure, etc etc. looks like tom brady out there.

I have to say I was very surprised watching Leinart throw the deep ball today. This was a BIG knock on him coming out of college. So far, it seems like he's thrown several beautiful long balls as well as being accurate on his shorter throws.

I thought D. Green was crazy for pulling the string on Warner so quickly, but I'll eat crow on that one for sure.

(Now that I've said that, watch the guy throw 4 int's in the 2nd half and lose the game :) .)

Hottoddie
10-08-2006, 05:41 PM
This is the guy that I believe Kubiak would go after, but with his injury, I'll be surprised if he comes out this year. He most likely wouldn't be drafted until late in the 1st round, or worse yet, not until one of the later rounds. However, if he heals up & plays one more year like he's been playing, he could easily be a top 5 pick. That's a big difference when it comes to the money.

I stand corrected. Bush is a senior this year. I wonder if Kubiak had his sights set on a RB by the name of Bush all along, just not Reggie Bush? :stirpot: I guess one bush is as good as another bush. :D

Dr. Toro
10-08-2006, 05:45 PM
My two cents... huge play for Reggie. No doubt he's a valuable weapon.

Don't need the media making excuses for him... what NFL player is ever 100%.

10 carries for 23 yards... brings him to 3.15 ypc on the year. 11 receptions for 63 yards. 7.5 yards per catch on the year.

420 yards on 87 touches.... just under 5 yards per touch. Not that awesome.

To Reggie's credit, with Deuce being the man, he's found ways to stay involved. Unfortunately, the type of swiss-army knife, Marshall Faulk-lite, Brian Westbrook type role might be his ceiling. He really hasn't impressed as a running back. But they don't need that, they've got a stud RB, two excellent receivers... throw him into the mix and you've got a pretty nasty squad.

Mysteryhunt
10-08-2006, 05:48 PM
if we didnt draft bush i dont see us drafting peterson. we still need defense, as i'm sure y'all know and i hope we continue to go after it.

nunusguy
10-08-2006, 05:51 PM
This is the guy that I believe Kubiak would go after, but with his injury, I'll be surprised if he comes out this year.
Remember Willis McGahee coming out after he blew his knee out in college ?
He's now the leading NFL rusher.

jlam
10-08-2006, 05:55 PM
Remember Willis McGahee coming out after he blew his knee out in college ?
He's now the leading NFL rusher.

True, but MUCH different injury. I would much rather have a broken leg than a blown out knee as a RB. The risk for re-injury is much, much less.

Point is, the concerns regarding McGahee were legit. Good job by him working hard and coming back.

MadBurgerMaker
10-08-2006, 06:17 PM
Hey....congrats to Reggie. :)

Dr. Toro
10-08-2006, 06:22 PM
True, but MUCH different injury. I would much rather have a broken leg than a blown out knee as a RB. The risk for re-injury is much, much less.

Point is, the concerns regarding McGahee were legit. Good job by him working hard and coming back.

Not so sure about that... torn ACL's aren't what they used to be... McGahee, Edgerrin James, Duece McAlister, Jamal Lewis, Priest Holmes, Mike Anderson are some RB's who didn't seem to be more injury prone after the surgery. On the other hand, there are guys like Buckhalter and Scaife who keep doing it over and over. It's often an acute injury that's a freak thing, sometimes it means nothing... you were neither predisposed to the tear nor does it predispose you for additional injuries. The grafted ligament you end up with is stronger than your original ACL oftentimes, issues with tendinitis and cartilage can pop up... but it's really not the career killer it once was. Oftentimes guys come back with stronger muscles, ligaments, better flexibility, and better understanding of biomechanics.

Anybody see Braylon Edwards snap that thing in week 15 or 16 and come back on opening day as arguably the best big play guy in football. I'd worry more about guys with cartilage problems than ligament problems... Dom Davis, Westbrook (tore ACL in college), Curtis Martin.

To your original point, I don't know if breaking your leg makes you any less injury prone than tearing the ACL. I'm not a Dr.... I just play one on the message board... and I stayed at a holiday inn express last night. To me the red flags are general durability (think DeShaun Foster) and cartilage issues... they usually seem to degenerate.

gg no re
10-08-2006, 06:53 PM
I'll give credit to Reggie... not only is he an astounding slot receiver, but he's doing well on special teams as well.

His running game though.... he shouldn't quit his day job, whatever that is.

nunusguy
10-08-2006, 07:05 PM
Back to the Bush punt return. It's only a matter of time before ESPN and
others remember the Billy Cannon punt return to beat Ole Miss and secure
the National Championship for LSU (this was another sports era).
They will surely link this play with the famous Cannon return and make it
part of Louisana sports laurel.
BTW, how many times has ESPN shown this play by now ? 10 ? 15 ? > 25 ?

David's Busted Carr
10-08-2006, 07:09 PM
Funny, I think I remember everyone discounting Reggie Bush's punt and kick returns saying anyone can do it and they don't matter...


HMMM, seemed to matter today with a game winning PR TD...

NO 4-1

gg no re
10-08-2006, 07:12 PM
Yeah, Desmond Howard proved his doubters wrong when he made his impact in the pros.

gg no re
10-08-2006, 07:14 PM
Pea soup? Sounds interesting.

Any recipes for a good pea soup?

kastofsna
10-08-2006, 07:16 PM
I'll give credit to Reggie... not only is he an astounding slot receiver, but he's doing well on special teams as well.

His running game though.... he shouldn't quit his day job, whatever that is.
he actually hasn't been good on special teams at all this year.

he is a good slot receiver, i'll give him that.

hobie
10-08-2006, 07:17 PM
And..................

Hookem Horns
10-08-2006, 07:18 PM
... and what's your point? Is a great punt return guy/3rd down RB worth the #1 overall pick?

I have been saying all along this guy is going to be another Eric Metcalf type player. So far he looks just like him.

RTP2110
10-08-2006, 07:22 PM
Punt returs are as much good luck and good blocking as they are skill.

TexansBull
10-08-2006, 07:24 PM
Ughh, I just heard Pink singing that song...I just threw up a little bit....

The root of the problem is ESPN and the rest of the commentating world is pissed at us for making them look irrevelant when it comes to thier expert opinions. They will force feed Reggie Bush down our throats and keep comparing the two when they shouldnt.

So when you call it Reggie Bush hate, it actually us just refusing to take all the medias one-sided opinion. We are tired of Mario being the middle child of the rookies. What about Demeco? If you want to talk RBs, what about Marouney?

ESPN and the like are so baised it makes me to always "stick up for mario" whenever the Reggie highlight reel comes out. Especially now that he has a TD, when Marios performance was casually overlooked. Also, its just a way to create controversy for more ratings.

Both players are going to be good in this league, but the media is the one that keeps this feud brewing.

texflex513
10-08-2006, 07:24 PM
Funny, I think I remember everyone discounting Reggie Bush's punt and kick returns saying anyone can do it and they don't matter...


HMMM, seemed to matter today with a game winning PR TD...

NO 4-1 LOST THREAD!!!!!:backsout:

tulexan
10-08-2006, 07:26 PM
well there is a difference between a sack and a game-winning punt return for a TD.

What about a game saving tipped pass?

Mr teX
10-08-2006, 07:26 PM
Yeah, big ups to Reggie, Like i said earlier in this thread, it was only a matter of time before he made a play. Having said that, it wasn't that great just like Mario's sacks weren't that great.

As for the tipped pass, it's already been proven that it was Mario (Football night in America show slow moed & showed it) regardless of what the stat sheet shows.

gtexan02
10-08-2006, 07:27 PM
#1 - Why is this thread in the Bull Pen?
#2 - Why did this need its own thread?

Mr teX
10-08-2006, 07:28 PM
Funny, I think I remember everyone discounting Reggie Bush's punt and kick returns saying anyone can do it and they don't matter...


HMMM, seemed to matter today with a game winning PR TD...

NO 4-1

I'm willing to bet that NO would miss Brees & McCallister more than RB at this point.

TexansLucky13
10-08-2006, 07:29 PM
Reggie got a TD eh? Well he needs another half TD to catch up with Mario on the sack-TD counter!

:fireball:

TexansJunkE
10-08-2006, 07:29 PM
LOST THREAD!!!!!:backsout:


Couldn't have said it better. Expect alot of these over the season. Did anyone hear what that TOOL Collinsworth said about RB when they highlighted the the Return. "The player that should have been the No.1 pick"
:loser

PapaL
10-08-2006, 07:30 PM
Is there anyway to move this to the NEW ORLEANS SAINTS forum? And FTR - They dont count when it's not A.) Our KR/PR or B.) our opponents KR/PR.

Texans86
10-08-2006, 07:30 PM
NO = $160 million backfield.

Wolf
10-08-2006, 07:34 PM
Couldn't have said it better. Expect alot of these over the season. Did anyone hear what that TOOL Collinsworth said about RB when they highlighted the the Return. "The player that should have been the No.1 pick"
:loser


Sad thing is as long as the Houston Texans are losing, this is a no win situation.

Imagine what would happen if we picked Bush and he has done what he has done statwise here and the Texans are geting blown out in the games and are still 1-3 meanwhile the Saints are 4-1 and they had Williams in their lineup..

they would be hollering that we picked a bust and Wiliams has helped the Saints to a 4-1 record..

RB has been a solid ALL-AROUND player(receiving,returning, rushing stinks though) and not a "once in a generation" player

Mr. White
10-08-2006, 07:34 PM
http://forums.houstontexans.com/showthread.php?t=29406

thunderkyss
10-08-2006, 08:12 PM
It is amazing how fast it gets posted on this board.:brickwall

by a Dolphins fan

WiiBrawler
10-08-2006, 08:17 PM
"Oh When The Saints Come Marchin' in,Oh when the Saints Come Marchin' in,They will say Reggie Bush Is God, When the Saints come Marchin In'"

texan279
10-08-2006, 08:17 PM
So New Orleans basically used the #2 overall pick on a punt returner, because Bush has done nothing to help the Saints' running game as of yet.

donato
10-08-2006, 08:35 PM
So New Orleans basically used the #2 overall pick on a punt returner, because Bush has done nothing to help the Saints' running game as of yet.

Except he's in the top 3 in receptions this year. I don't know why you guys have so much hate. Just be happy with "Super" Mario. When you hate so much on Reggie it just makes you look like you KNOW you guys made the wrong decision. It's like a jealous girlfriend or something. Let it go. Props to Reggie, not to mention the Saints are freaking 4-1 for Christs' sake!

thunderkyss
10-08-2006, 08:43 PM
While it's true that he scored a game winning TD today, quite frankly, I don't give a damn. We didn't need a RB at the time. Thus, our front office didn't allow ESPN to lead them by the nose to select a player that was/is not NFL ready. And, as it turns out, wasn't even the best RB available in the draft.


& after getting RonDayne, SamkonGado, & WaliLundy, we still don't need a running back.

SamkonGado was very impressive last season starting for the GB Packers. If AhmanGreen were hurt(which he is) the cheeseheads would be thrilled to have Samkon starting for them.

RonDayne would be starting in Denver right now, had Shanahan not got a wild hair up his butt..... he avg'd 3.4 yards against Indy, after being with our team 9 days. & 4.1 yards against Washington a week later. Both, behind a terrible offensive line, that have allowed 5 sacks in three games. An offensive line, that have not started the same 5 people for two weeks back to back.

& WaliLundy.... had a great Preseason, and avg'd over 5 ypc in the second half of the Phillygame, & 4.2 ypc against Indy.

thunderkyss
10-08-2006, 08:56 PM
... and what's your point? Is a great punt return guy/3rd down RB worth the #1 overall pick?

I have been saying all along this guy is going to be another Eric Metcalf type player. So far he looks just like him.

Are you crazy??

a 3rd down RB is one that will get you those tough yards, he will get you that 1st down, and he will get you that touchdown.

Dr. Toro
10-08-2006, 08:59 PM
Except he's in the top 3 in receptions this year. I don't know why you guys have so much hate. Just be happy with "Super" Mario. When you hate so much on Reggie it just makes you look like you KNOW you guys made the wrong decision. It's like a jealous girlfriend or something. Let it go. Props to Reggie, not to mention the Saints are freaking 4-1 for Christs' sake!

Go to a nice website like Yahoo Sports, where you can use tabs to sort the statistics. Sort for receptions, and Bush is among the leaders... then sort by yards per catch and he disappears. 7.5 yards per catch is about half of what receivers usually do. Ronnie Brown's got a higher yards per catch than Bush. Reggie is a nice player... but aside from one punt return he's done very little to earn his hype. He's got a knack for making the big play at the right time... but you like guys to get first downs or punch it in around the goal line too.

thunderkyss
10-08-2006, 09:02 PM
ESPN and the like are so baised it makes me to always "stick up for mario" whenever the Reggie highlight reel comes out. Especially now that he has a TD, when Marios performance was casually overlooked. Also, its just a way to create controversy for more ratings.

Both players are going to be good in this league, but the media is the one that keeps this feud brewing.

The media is doing what they've always been doing. sacks are not equal to TDs.... Mario will be the guy they talk about when he has a 3 sack game. It don't matter if it's against the Cowboys, Tennessee, Oakland, or Cleveland.

That tip to seal our first win in 20 some odd games should have got a lot more attention though.. that's definitely equal to a TD, especially for a 6' 7" 290lb guy in coverage.

HoustonFan
10-08-2006, 09:18 PM
Congrats to Reggie Bush on his first NFL touchdown. While I'm at it. Congrats to Vince Young a couple of games ago on his first touchdown, and same to Matt Leinart.

thunderkyss
10-08-2006, 09:20 PM
Couldn't have said it better. Expect alot of these over the season. Did anyone hear what that TOOL Collinsworth said about RB when they highlighted the the Return. "The player that should have been the No.1 pick"
:loser

Seriously, what difference does it make?? I mean they're getting darn near the same money, N.O. is happy they got him. If it weren't for us passing on REggie, we'd all be amazed that the SanAntonio Saints are 4-1.

We got our guy, they got their guy, why do they want Reggie in Houston so badly?? So he wouldn't have to play second fiddle to Duece?? So they can blame the OLine, for his performance??

Why should he have been the #1 pick, I mean after 4 years, does anybody care that Eli was taken, and forced a trade that sent a bunch of picks that have helped make the SD (Super)Chargers a legit playoff contender??

Does anyone care that TimCouch was picked ahead of DonovanMcNabb?? Or that AlexSmith didn't throw a touchdown 'till he faced the Texans?? Looking back right now, can you tell Harrington was picked #3, and that Peppers wasn't the #1 overall in that Draft.

The best player isn't always the #1 pick. The team picking decides what they need, and look at what's available & decide how they go about spending their draft choices at that time.

thunderkyss
10-08-2006, 09:27 PM
Except he's in the top 3 in receptions this year. I don't know why you guys have so much hate. Just be happy with "Super" Mario. When you hate so much on Reggie it just makes you look like you KNOW you guys made the wrong decision. It's like a jealous girlfriend or something. Let it go. Props to Reggie, not to mention the Saints are freaking 4-1 for Christs' sake!

13 posts.... all about Reggie Bush.

on a HoustonTexans message board.

& you wonder why we talk about Reggie Bush........

thunderkyss
10-08-2006, 09:31 PM
Go to a nice website like Yahoo Sports, where you can use tabs to sort the statistics. Sort for receptions, and Bush is among the leaders... then sort by yards per catch and he disappears. 7.5 yards per catch is about half of what receivers usually do. Ronnie Brown's got a higher yards per catch than Bush. Reggie is a nice player... but aside from one punt return he's done very little to earn his hype. He's got a knack for making the big play at the right time... but you like guys to get first downs or punch it in around the goal line too.

20 touches, to get around a 100 yards.

Imagine if you give Duece 20 touches.

Imagine if Colston got 20 catches......


150 yards, maybe 160??

Goldeagle
10-08-2006, 09:34 PM
According to NFL.com



Wes Welker
Receiving
G GS Rec Yds Avg
4 0 18 222 12.3


Kick Returns
G No Yds Avg Lg
4 11 270 24.5 39


Punt Returns
G Ret FC Ret Yds Avg Lg
4 7 6 99 14.1 47



REGGIE BUSH
Receiving
G GS Rec Yds Avg Lg
4 1 23 187 8.1 32

Punt Returns
G Ret FC Ret Yds Avg Lg
4 9 0 57 6.3 14

Rushing
G GS Att Yds Avg Lg
4 1 45 147 3.3 18




Wes Welker: Undrafted
Total Yards: 591

REGGIE BUSH: THE GREATEST EVER, SHOULD HAVE BEEN PICKED #1
Total Yards: 391



Wes Welker: 591
Reggie Bush: 391


?????????????????

I can conclude, Wes Welker is GOD!

infantrycak
10-08-2006, 09:52 PM
Are you crazy??

a 3rd down RB is one that will get you those tough yards, he will get you that 1st down, and he will get you that touchdown.

I'm not saying RB is just a 3rd down back but you need to ask yourself your own question. 3rd down backs don't get drafted except by mistake in the 1st round. They are much closer to getting drafted in the 4th like DD.

wicked_wayz
10-08-2006, 10:04 PM
yes......Way.

no way....u cant be serious......that was a game winning TD that bush scored....that was far greater than mario's sack

TFL
10-08-2006, 10:19 PM
no way....u cant be serious......that was a game winning TD that bush scored....that was far greater than mario's sack

Ok, and if there was no sack on Culpepper the staduim would not have exploded the team would not have been pumped, and you never know what would have happened in that drive. If he did not get that sack they would have not been in a 3 and +10 to go. Which would have increased there chances of continuing that drive would have increased. So he might not have scored a GW TD that for a Defensive player is like making a GW play.

infantrycak
10-08-2006, 10:21 PM
Ok, and if there was no sack on Culpepper the staduim would not have exploded the team would not have been pumped, and you never know what would have happened in that drive. If he did not get that sack they would have not been in a 3 and +10 to go. Which would have increased there chances of continuing that drive would have increased. So he might not have scored a GW TD that for a Defensive player is like making a GW play.

Either way on the sack--tipping the ball on the two pointer cinched the game.

thunderkyss
10-08-2006, 10:29 PM
I'm not saying RB is just a 3rd down back but you need to ask yourself your own question. 3rd down backs don't get drafted except by mistake in the 1st round. They are much closer to getting drafted in the 4th like DD.

I've been saying from jump that we shouldn't take Reggie with the #1 overall.

He wasn't the best running back on that team, & he wasn't the best WR on that team. I wonder had Reggie gone back for his senior year, would he be the guy??

Does his college accomplishments make him a first rounder??

I don't know. But I can think of alot of players I'd have rather had than ReggieBush.

LBC_Justin
10-08-2006, 11:34 PM
I'll give credit to Reggie... not only is he an astounding slot receiver, but he's doing well on special teams as well.

His running game though.... he shouldn't quit his day job, whatever that is.
If I am not mistaken Reggie Bush is an actor specializing in making comercials. On sundays he plays football, his primary position is decoy, which he is a probowler at....if you ask the media.

Congrats to Bush for the TD. I am sure that took a lot of the pressure off and made him look like less of an on field disappointment. I am soooooooo glad the Texans passed on him and went with Defense.

hope he picks up his running game, or he has seen his last big pay day.

ps: No way Kubiak takes a Running Back in the first round. That would shock me.

Hottoddie
10-09-2006, 12:22 AM
Hmmmm...., I wonder if Reggie will even get to the 50 "all purpose yards" mark against a very strong Philadelphia defense? I love how ESPN is really reaching when they list his "all purpose yards", because his rushing & receiving yards only average out to 84 yards per game. Yea', that's right, he's the best RB since Gale Sayers & Barry Sanders. Right now, Bush couldn't even carry their used jock straps.


Reggie Bush is AVERAGE!!!

DCSaints_fan
10-09-2006, 12:34 AM
Yeah Reggies rush game has been disappointing. However I think some are took quick too judge. Sure there were guys like Sanders and Faulk who came in the league and starting averaging 5.0 a carry. But Tomlinson and Walter Payton only averaged 3.5-3.6 their rookie years. I think you need to give more time before you say that he can't run from scrimmage.

phan1
10-09-2006, 12:35 AM
Yeah, the big 3 (Bush, Vince, Matt) played very well today.

Now about Bush, I'm going to go out and say he's officially not the RB we'd thought he'd be. He damn sure isn't Barry Sanders I'll tell you that much. Right now, he looks like a great reciever, great returner, and an OK runningback. RBs are instant impact players, so I don't think I'm going out on a limb when I say this. He was easily stuffed on 2 goaline attempts against the Falcons.

Brian Westbrook is a perfect comparison. There's a reason Andy Ried throws so much and it's because 1) Brian Westbrook is an excellent passing threat and 2) Brian Westbrook is not a good runningback. He just can't push the pile like a big runningback can and goes down really easily. He doesn't break tackles or get the tough inside yards. There are times when it looks like he could fall down if someone breathed too hard on him. Now for the record, Bush is a much better player than Westbrook I think.

Bush is still awsome in the open field, but when the heck does a runningback get a chance to get in the open field? Not many. He's a hard guy to catch, but not much of a threat to break tackles off the line-of-scrimmage and break it to the n-zone (which is what everyone thought). Besides today's punt return, all the Bush highlights have been with him doing his best Steve Smith impression at WR. I haven't seen anything from him when it comes to running the football. I don't know how good/bad that Oline is, but McCallister doesn't seem to have any problems with it. McCallister is definitely not leaving New Orleans any time soon. Still early in the season, but what I've said has been accurate thus far. I'd rather see a guy who can consistently get me yards than a guy who's going to potentially break it to the n-zone once every 4-5 games.

DCSaints_fan
10-09-2006, 01:01 AM
Yeah, the big 3 (Bush, Vince, Matt) played very well today.

Now about Bush, I'm going to go out and say he's officially not the RB we'd thought he'd be. He damn sure isn't Barry Sanders I'll tell you that much. Right now, he looks like a great reciever, great returner, and an OK runningback. RBs are instant impact players, so I don't think I'm going out on a limb when I say this. He was easily stuffed on 2 goaline attempts against the Falcons.

Brian Westbrook is a perfect comparison. There's a reason Andy Ried throws so much and it's because 1) Brian Westbrook is an excellent passing threat and 2) Brian Westbrook is not a good runningback. He just can't push the pile like a big runningback can and goes down really easily. He doesn't break tackles or get the tough inside yards. There are times when it looks like he could fall down if someone breathed too hard on him. Now for the record, Bush is a much better player than Westbrook I think.

Bush is still awsome in the open field, but when the heck does a runningback get a chance to get in the open field? Not many. He's a hard guy to catch, but not much of a threat to break tackles off the line-of-scrimmage and break it to the n-zone (which is what everyone thought). Besides today's punt return, all the Bush highlights have been with him doing his best Steve Smith impression at WR. I haven't seen anything from him when it comes to running the football. I don't know how good/bad that Oline is, but McCallister doesn't seem to have any problems with it. McCallister is definitely not leaving New Orleans any time soon. Still early in the season, but what I've said has been accurate thus far. I'd rather see a guy who can consistently get me yards than a guy who's going to potentially break it to the n-zone once every 4-5 games.

I don't think that Reggie necessarily has to be a plow through everyone type running back in order to be a useful. Did you see the Chargers/Stellers game today - they mentioned how the Chargers used Michael Turner as a between the tackles type, so Tomlinson could be more of a finesse back. I think it might evolve into a similiar situation with Reggie/Deuce.

thunderkyss
10-09-2006, 01:13 AM
Yeah, the big 3 (Bush, Vince, Matt) played very well today.

Now about Bush, I'm going to go out and say he's officially not the RB we'd thought he'd be. He damn sure isn't Barry Sanders I'll tell you that much. Right now, he looks like a great reciever, great returner, and an OK runningback. RBs are instant impact players, so I don't think I'm going out on a limb when I say this. He was easily stuffed on 2 goaline attempts against the Falcons.


Who really knows what kind of running back Reggie Bush is going to be in the NFL. How many plays do you think they really run for Reggie as the guy??

Duece is a big up the middle you can't bring him down Tailback.

REggie isn't.

How much playing time do you think Reggie get's with the first team??

of course you can say well, what about Maroney, or what about DAngelo??

Maroney is a better Dillon, younger, fresher legs... DAngelo is a younger better Foster.

If Reggie was in Washington, or Atlanta, he'd be doing a lot better.

I honestly don't know why he isn't stretching the field with that speed though.

thunderkyss
10-09-2006, 01:32 AM
I don't think that Reggie necessarily has to be a plow through everyone type running back in order to be a useful. Did you see the Chargers/Stellers game today - they mentioned how the Chargers used Michael Turner as a between the tackles type, so Tomlinson could be more of a finesse back. I think it might evolve into a similiar situation with Reggie/Deuce.

The difference, is that Tomlinson is an all around back, and can take it between the tackles as well. When he is on the field, you don't know which way he's going to go.

With Reggie, you can just cover the outsides, going up the middle, he ain't going too far.

kastofsna
10-09-2006, 06:50 AM
I can conclude, Wes Welker is GOD!
you are correct.

real
10-09-2006, 07:52 AM
Go to a nice website like Yahoo Sports, where you can use tabs to sort the statistics. Sort for receptions, and Bush is among the leaders... then sort by yards per catch and he disappears. 7.5 yards per catch is about half of what receivers usually do. Ronnie Brown's got a higher yards per catch than Bush. Reggie is a nice player... but aside from one punt return he's done very little to earn his hype. He's got a knack for making the big play at the right time... but you like guys to get first downs or punch it in around the goal line too.

I don't understand why we have to degrade one player to lift up the other...IMO, Leinart, Young, Mario, and Bush have done pretty much what their teams have asked of them...nothing more...nothing less....All of them seem to have pretty bright futures if they can just stay on track....And one thing that you certainly can't judge them on is their "stats"...Who honestly expected these guys to come out and play like veterans ? to totally dominate from day 1? ...

V Man
10-09-2006, 08:15 AM
I don't understand why we have to degrade one player to lift up the other...IMO, Leinart, Young, Mario, and Bush have done pretty much what their teams have asked of them...nothing more...nothing less....All of them seem to have pretty bright futures if they can just stay on track....And one thing that you certainly can't judge them on is their "stats"...Who honestly expected these guys to come out and play like veterans ? to totally dominate from day 1? ...


I understand what you are saying. It is the media that has created a dislike for Reggie (for me anyway), and that what makes me mad. Reggie seems like a great young man, who is an exciting talent, but the media seems to change the rules for him and that is what I don't like. Example now we keep all purpose yards- rushing, receiving, and punt returns. It used to be rushing and recieving, but now the media adds punt returns to justify their stance. Dante Hall used to do all three Receiver, Run reverses, punt returns and return kicks, but his were list individual or the Returns combined as return yards, never all-purpose. They seem to create stats to help justify their placing him as the new diety of football. Reggie had a great punt return and props to him. But now it is a game ending return (by the media), but there was still 4:18 left in the game. Shepard's Int return for a TD in the closing seconds is a game ending play not his Int with 3+ minutes left.

I know this shouldn't suprise me, the media has done it before (Vick, Carter and others) and they will do it again. Just wish they would cover the game, and show the highlights. Quit trying to force me to believe who they think is the greatest, and let me decide who is the best by the play on the field.

infantrycak
10-09-2006, 08:31 AM
I don't understand why we have to degrade one player to lift up the other...

Why is any comment that isn't glowing about Bush taken as degrading him? For instance, it seems like a perfectly legitimate observation to note as McClain and the 610 am guys just did (and I did watching the game) that Bush's return was one of the best blocked, most straight forward returns ever--pick a side and run, no cuts, no broken tackles. That is observing the game. Noting he is racking up receptions (and thereby helping his team) but the majority are short is fact not degrading. I don't get why Bush is a taboo subject unless it is to genuflect to him.

texan279
10-09-2006, 08:37 AM
My deal with the Bush thing is he was and still is so hyped and everyone dogged us for not drafting him because he would have "helped our running game so much". Well he has done jack squat to this point as a running back, which IMO if I pick a guy #1 or #2 overall, I want him to be a running back first then punt returner or receiver second. All of the hype about this triple threat and to date he has scored 1 TD on a punt return in 5 games and hasn't done anything for the Saint's running game.

real
10-09-2006, 08:37 AM
But now it is a game ending return (by the media), but there was still 4:18 left in the game. Shepard's Int return for a TD in the closing seconds is a game ending play not his Int with 3+ minutes left.

Honestly man...I think you mis-heard what they said, and your mind is already set to be mad at the media so in your mind what they actually said got twisted...Because when I heard about the game they called it a game "winning" touchdown...not game "ending"....To call it game ending doesn't really make sense....and I can't really see them referring to it that way.....

I know this shouldn't suprise me, the media has done it before (Vick, Carter and others) and they will do it again. Just wish they would cover the game, and show the highlights. Quit trying to force me to believe who they think is the greatest, and let me decide who is the best by the play on the field.

What I don't understand is....why you expect the media to do something otherwise....They are going to market what makes money....Reggie is what makes money....nothing more...nothing less.....

real
10-09-2006, 08:45 AM
Why is any comment that isn't glowing about Bush taken as degrading him? For instance, it seems like a perfectly legitimate observation to note as McClain and the 610 am guys just did (and I did watching the game) that Bush's return was one of the best blocked, most straight forward returns ever--pick a side and run, no cuts, no broken tackles. That is observing the game. Noting he is racking up receptions (and thereby helping his team) but the majority are short is fact not degrading. I don't get why Bush is a taboo subject unless it is to genuflect to him.

I agree...the run wasn't all that impressive.....I kept waiting for a move or something and all he did was run straight....

And talking bad about Reggie isn't taboo...and I've read many post that have been negative about Bush...so although it may "seem" that it is a taboo subject...it's really not....and thats kind of besides the point anyways...What I meant was.... why do we have to bring up one players name in a negative light to try and build up another player.....totally different from just talking negatively about a player....

V Man
10-09-2006, 08:46 AM
Honestly man...I think you mis-heard what they said, and your mind is already set to be mad at the media so in your mind what they actually said got twisted...Because when I heard about the game they called it a game "winning" touchdown...not game "ending"....To call it game ending doesn't really make sense....and I can't really see them referring to it that way.....



Honestly I heard it called both game winning and game ending (by Chris Collinsworth, so I guess I should take that with a grain of salt).

What I don't understand is....why you expect the media to do something otherwise....They are going to market what makes money....Reggie is what makes money....nothing more...nothing less

Because they would make money off the NFL even if they didn't display their huge men crushes on certain players (not just Reggie). But I guess I should just get use to it, but I can't.......Sorry.

real
10-09-2006, 08:51 AM
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Because they would make money off the NFL even if they didn't display their huge men crushes on certain players (not just Reggie). But I guess I should just get use to it, but I can't.......Sorry.

Reggie isn't the first player they've hyped to super stardom before he proved himslef....

Look at Lebron James....He was hyped unbelievably before he had done anything too....Vick....They hype players every year....

infantrycak
10-09-2006, 08:57 AM
What I meant was.... why do we have to bring up one players name in a negative light to try and build up another player.....totally different from just talking negatively about a player....

Totally agree with that. It's going to happen though no matter how silly it is.

thunderkyss
10-09-2006, 09:13 AM
Reggie isn't the first player they've hyped to super stardom before he proved himslef....

Look at Lebron James....He was hyped unbelievably before he had done anything too....Vick....They hype players every year....

& both of them produced just like the hype suggested as rookies, & then some.

Nothing against Reggie, but once in a lifetime??

DD as a backup had better stats than Reggie as a rookie so far.

texan279
10-09-2006, 09:16 AM
& both of them produced just like the hype suggested as rookies, & then some.

Nothing against Reggie, but once in a lifetime??

DD as a backup had better stats than Reggie as a rookie so far.

Vick had a good 2nd year in the NFL but really has done nothing spectacular as a QB in 6 seasons except for what he has done with his legs.

thunderkyss
10-09-2006, 09:24 AM
Vick had a good 2nd year in the NFL but really has done nothing spectacular as a QB in 6 seasons except for what he has done with his legs.

which was what everybody expected, what the hype was all about.

real
10-09-2006, 09:27 AM
DD as a backup had better stats than Reggie as a rookie so far.

Kyss....what exactly does that mean? prove? determine?

Does that mean Reggie sucks?

Does it prove Mario doesn't ?

Does that determine who the better players will be in the long run ?

If you can't answer yes to any of those questions then whats really the point of that statement? What does that mean ??? All I said was that there have been others hyped....I never said all those players lived up to the hype...I never said that there haven't been second rounders better than first rounders....

texan279
10-09-2006, 09:27 AM
which was what everybody expected, what the hype was all about.

Sorry, but if I draft a QB #1 overall, I want a QB, not a running back who plays QB. Just like with Bush, if I draft a RB #2 overall, I want a running back, not a punt returner.

real
10-09-2006, 09:34 AM
Sorry, but if I draft a QB #1 overall, I want a QB, not a running back who plays QB. Just like with Bush, if I draft a RB #2 overall, I want a running back, not a punt returner.

Well Im pretty sure those respective coaches would respect your opinion(or not)....But obviously they felt that at the time those respective players were worth the pick...and thats all it boils down to...not what positon they play...it's how that pick helps them win....and I'm not saying whether or not said player is helping his team win....all I'm doing is defending the picks themselves....

thunderkyss
10-09-2006, 09:38 AM
Kyss....what exactly does that mean? prove? determine?

Does that mean Reggie sucks?

Does it prove Mario doesn't ?

Does that determine who the better players will be in the long run ?

If you can't answer yes to any of those questions then whats really the point of that statement? What does that mean ??? All I said was that there have been others hyped....I never said all those players lived up to the hype...I never said that there haven't been second rounders better than first rounders....

what was the point of pointing out other players that were hyped before they played in the NFL?? Wouldn't it have been more appropriate to use examples like TimBiakabutuka, BlairThomas, RickyWilliams, or RonDayne??

thunderkyss
10-09-2006, 09:41 AM
Sorry, but if I draft a QB #1 overall, I want a QB, not a running back who plays QB. Just like with Bush, if I draft a RB #2 overall, I want a running back, not a punt returner.

I'm with you, but the Falcons knew exactly what they were getting when they drafted him, and they knew what they had when the extended him to a $100,000,000 contract even before he completed a full season.

I never would've drafted Vick in the top ten of the draft, much less the #1 overall.

But he was hyped as a running back who can throw, and he is playing well, as a runningback who can throw.

real
10-09-2006, 09:51 AM
what was the point of pointing out other players that were hyped before they played in the NFL?? Wouldn't it have been more appropriate to use examples like TimBiakabutuka, BlairThomas, RickyWilliams, or RonDayne??

No...Those players didn't recieve that amount of hype that Reggie, or Vick or LeBron did...these guys were supposed to revolutionize...and the reason I pointed out that other players have been hyped, is because people are acting like Reggie is the first ESPN poster child...he isn't...and he won't be the last......I am not discussing how good or bad he is...........other players haven't lived up to the hype....thats besides the point......

But you made the comment that DD did better than RB in his 1st year....

ok....

What does that mean??????

thunderkyss
10-09-2006, 10:36 AM
No...Those players didn't recieve that amount of hype that Reggie, or Vick or LeBron did...these guys were supposed to revolutionize...and the reason I pointed out that other players have been hyped, is because people are acting like Reggie is the first ESPN poster child...he isn't...and he won't be the last......I am not discussing how good or bad he is...........other players haven't lived up to the hype....thats besides the point......

But you made the comment that DD did better than RB in his 1st year....

ok....

What does that mean??????

He got hyped for revolutionizing a position, & so far, he's not doing much better (if any) than our 4th round pick 4 years ago......

& both of them produced just like the hype suggested as rookies, & then some.

Nothing against Reggie, but once in a lifetime??

DD as a backup had better stats than Reggie as a rookie so far.

I'm begginning to believe that I don't think on the same wavelength as the rest of you guys. This makes total sense to me, and is completely relevant. Since this is all about us Passing on REggie Bush. If it doesn't make sense to you, fine, I'll drop it.

real
10-09-2006, 10:54 AM
He got hyped for revolutionizing a position, & so far, he's not doing much better (if any) than our 4th round pick 4 years ago......



hmmm.......now thats interesting.....So Kyss....Did you expect Reggie to live up to the hype after 5 games ? I didn't.....Saying that DD had better stats than Reggie in his first whatever games is just like comparing Mario's stats to Manny Lawson's.....or any other random player in the history of the leauge.....DeMeco has played better than A.J Hawk as well.....Marques Colston is on track to have a better rookie year than Andre Johnson and Terrell Owens Combined....What does that mean ??? my answer: nothing

How can you use one players accomplishments to justify whether another player is good??? or will succeed???

You never answered my question...DD had better stats than Reggie has so-far at equal points in their career.....ok.....what does that piece of information mean ???

jerek
10-09-2006, 11:04 AM
I don't understand why we have to degrade one player to lift up the other...IMO, Leinart, Young, Mario, and Bush have done pretty much what their teams have asked of them...nothing more...nothing less....All of them seem to have pretty bright futures if they can just stay on track....And one thing that you certainly can't judge them on is their "stats"...Who honestly expected these guys to come out and play like veterans ? to totally dominate from day 1? ...

Dude this is a message board designed for debate. If I or anyone else thinks that Reggie Bush isn't performing up to his deified expectations and doesn't deserve a 30-minute weekly Sportscenter highlight reel for 3.1 YPC, then why can't we state that without you and a handful of other posters swinging a kung fu kick at us off of Reggie's jock?

Seems to me you are really stretching to perceive an ulterior, all-consuming hatred in any non-glowing comment made about RB.

Agreed that so far, almost all of the rookie's are living up to expectations -- my expectations, at any rate -- VY is showing some early season chops, Reggie finally showed us a glimpse of this much-vaunted "playmaker ability," Mario finally notched a sack or two, Leinart looked very good as a rookie, and all of them are demonstrating some improvement.

I or anyone else can disagree with your premise -- whatever it is, since you seem content only to knock down any poster who doesn't say that Reggie will redefine the NFL. I think Reggie is Brian Westbrook, period point blank, end of story. At best a good back and a must-respect speed threat who if properly gameplanned for is going to be eaten up by good defenses.

real
10-09-2006, 11:14 AM
Dude this is a message board designed for debate. If I or anyone else thinks that Reggie Bush isn't performing up to his deified expectations and doesn't deserve a 30-minute weekly Sportscenter highlight reel for 3.1 YPC, then why can't we state that without you and a handful of other posters swinging a kung fu kick at us off of Reggie's jock?

Seems to me you are really stretching to perceive an ulterior, all-consuming hatred in any non-glowing comment made about RB.

Agreed that so far, almost all of the rookie's are living up to expectations -- my expectations, at any rate -- VY is showing some early season chops, Reggie finally showed us a glimpse of this much-vaunted "playmaker ability," Mario finally notched a sack or two, Leinart looked very good as a rookie, and all of them are demonstrating some improvement.

I or anyone else can disagree with your premise -- whatever it is, since you seem content only to knock down any poster who doesn't say that Reggie will redefine the NFL. I think Reggie is Brian Westbrook, period point blank, end of story. At best a good back and a must-respect speed threat who if properly gameplanned for is going to be eaten up by good defenses.


Jerek...You or anyone else can have, state, or announce whatever opinion you have.....Can I not do the same??? And I honestly don't care if you talk bad about Bush's game...I just find it hilarious that some try and use negative things one player has done to make another one look good...especially when all the players have played on about the same level.....and Jerek it may "seem" as if everytime someone says something negative about Bush I defend him...But what "seems" like and what actually is are two totally different things......so Im sorry if it "seems" that way, but that isn't my problem....I have not said one positive thing about Bush in this thread....In fact I talked about how un-impressive his TD was....So for you to suggest that Im "swinging from Bush's Jock strap" is hilarious in itself.....

real
10-09-2006, 11:36 AM
Seems to me you are really stretching to perceive an ulterior, all-consuming hatred in any non-glowing comment made about RB.


I agree...the run wasn't all that impressive.....I kept waiting for a move or something and all he did was run straight....



ain't that a kick in the head....

thunderkyss
10-09-2006, 11:58 AM
hmmm.......now thats interesting.....So Kyss....Did you expect Reggie to live up to the hype after 5 games ?

I didn't. All the ESPN guys & MarshallFaulk did. Chris Collinsworth saying he is going to do the exact same thing in the NFl that he's been able to do in College. He did none of the things to make him a #1 overall pick as a RB, or as a WR, now we are seeing why he should not have been a consideration.

I didn't.....Saying that DD had better stats than Reggie in his first whatever games is just like comparing Mario's stats to Manny Lawson's.....

Manny Lawson is an OLB in a 3-4 defense. Last I checked, 4 out of the 5 players on their defensive line have 2 sacks & nine tackles, or something similar, so he is playing up to par with other's in his system, in very similar situations.

IF Reggie was on this team(if you remember, a lot of guys wanted us to draft him) with those stats, he would be a dissappointment, I can say this, because DD did pretty much what Reggie is doing, and we were disappointed. (I wasn't, but the more football savvy guys were/are).


or any other random player in the history of the leauge.....DeMeco has played better than A.J Hawk as well.....Marques Colston is on track to have a better rookie year than Andre Johnson and Terrell Owens Combined....What does that mean ??? my answer: nothing

That means N.O. & the Texans had pretty good drafts considering the company you are putting them in. Of course, it is up to the player to continue to perforem at said levels, and looking at those guys, I can't see any reason to believe they won't. Just like I have little reason to believe Reggie will perform any differently than he has.

How can you use one players accomplishments to justify whether another player is good??? or will succeed???

For running backs in Houston, DD has set the bar. Our next Running Back has to produce better than DD. Period.

You never answered my question...DD had better stats than Reggie has so-far at equal points in their career.....ok.....what does that piece of information mean ???

First, not necessarily better stats, but comparable. Houston Fans weren't happy with those stats from DD, he's an avg back, and would never be anything more(not my feelings) Reggie is pretty much the same.... he's got more speed, but it isn't helping him any more than DDs will to succeed.

Nawzer
10-09-2006, 12:03 PM
Congrats to Reggie Bush on his first NFL touchdown.

thunderkyss
10-09-2006, 12:04 PM
At best a good back and a must-respect speed threat who if properly gameplanned for is going to be eaten up by good defenses.

Which wouldn't be bad, if Reggie can keep his knees together. Westbrooks only real flaw.

well that, and he can't run the ball, forcing McChoke to have to throw, and give up the game.

thunderkyss
10-09-2006, 12:09 PM
Manny Lawson is an OLB in a 3-4 defense. Last I checked, 4 out of the 5 players on their defensive line have 2 sacks & nine tackles, or something similar, so he is playing up to par with other's in his system, in very similar situations.


I'm sorry, I didn't mention my point about this statement. If Duece wasn't playing like he is behind the same offensive line, then I'd give REggie some slack. But I can think of 2 TDs, and atleast a nother 20-30 ypg Duece would've had if the Saints weren't trying so hard to get Reggie "involved" in a game.

real
10-09-2006, 12:12 PM
I'm sorry, I didn't mention my point about this statement. If Duece wasn't playing like he is behind the same offensive line, then I'd give REggie some slack. But I can think of 2 TDs, and atleast a nother 20-30 ypg Duece would've had if the Saints weren't trying so hard to get Reggie "involved" in a game.

Yeah I agree....at this point it seems like Reggie is hurting their offense more than he's helping....I just don't know whether it's the teams fault or Reggie's....

But Reggie isn't the starting RB because he isn't the best RB on the team....and he isn't a starting WR because he isn't the best WR on the team....But that doesn't mean that he will or won't have future success....

Second Honeymoon
10-09-2006, 12:13 PM
Although I think Bush was a safer pick by the Texans, the early returns don't necessarily support that. Bush is struggling at hitting the interior holes and gaps. He is having problems getting around the corner off a handoff. To be a true #1 back you have to be able to do both of those things.

Currently he is a great utility player and looks like he will have a similar career in stats and game impact as Eric Metcalf. Is that worth the #1 pick overall? That is the million dollar question. Metcalf was great and probably single handedly won the Browns about 5-7 games in a 3 year span. Is that enough production for #1 pick money and salary cap impact?

Bush has already pretty much won one game for the Saints in his first 5 tries...that is on par with Metcalf's impact and has been an asset in every game for a team that has gone 4-1. That is already doubling last year's win total in Week 5. Seems like if your a Saints fan you are happy with the pick and if you passed on him (like we did) we try and microanalyze Bush's impact and production in order to somehow validate our choice of Mario. Bottom line is Saints sucked last year and drafted Bush and are now looking like a bonafide playoff team. Does that mean Mario sucks or that we screwed up? No. It just means that the Saints made the right pick for their team. Period.

*drinks beer* Cheers. Here is to Mario being a commodity for years to come and helping Carr and Co. lead the team to greater glory.

Doug From The Woodlands

LBC_Justin
10-09-2006, 12:13 PM
Yeah Reggies rush game has been disappointing. However I think some are took quick too judge. Sure there were guys like Sanders and Faulk who came in the league and starting averaging 5.0 a carry. But Tomlinson and Walter Payton only averaged 3.5-3.6 their rookie years. I think you need to give more time before you say that he can't run from scrimmage.
I think everyone agrees the guy is going to be a good NFL player.

The main problem that people in Houston have is that for months the Texans were treated like retards and moron for passing on the great Reggie Bush.

He was billed as...
"Once in a Lifetime type player"
"The best player in a Generation"
"a once in 30 years type player"

seriously sit down and think about what a "Once in a Lifetime type player" would actually be. He would have to start out as a probowler! He would have to start destroying teams and taking over games from the beginning of his career. There could be no excuses. He was billed as that good.

He doesn't even look like he is the best running back in his draft class, maybe #3 or #4....maybe. Forget about the best player in the last 10, 20, 50 years.

That is the reason Bush catches a lot of crap on these boards.

gtexan02
10-09-2006, 12:15 PM
Heres my two cents:

ESPN and the media invest their credibility into promoting Reggie. He was one of the greatest college athletes of all time, and his marketability is sky high. As a result, ESPN and the media show replays of everything he does because they know that it appeals to the majority of NFL fans.

ESPN is a business, and even if Mario has 5 sacks in a game and Reggie only scores 1 TD, Reggie will get the footage because there are about 100x more Bush fans than Williams fans. Is it right? Probably not, but unless you want to live in a socialist society, you have to realize that the media will market players who are marketable, and that means Reggie. Texans fans don't matter to the marketing executives, because frankly, outside of Houston and the surrounding area, there are practically zero.

Now onto his production. Is he doing amazing? Nope. In fact, as a running back, he's still adjusting to the NFL and doing it slower than most other rookies. But he is doing very well as a receiver, and leading the league in receptions. He's not putting up huge statistics, but the NO saints were the 2nd worst team in the NFL last year, and they are now 4-1 this year. Are defenses keying on him as much as the announcers would have you believe? Probably not. Is it the coaching change? Probably so. Maybe he is simply INSPIRING his team with his attitude. Whatever it is, something has CHANGED the NO Saints, and they are now a winning team.

So in summary,
1. Quit complaining about Reggie publicity because ESPN and the media have to do it. They invested in him, the public loves him, and we are going to see a lot of him.

2. Quit bashing him to build up Mario Williams. Only MW's performance will determine the value of this pick. No matter how well or poorly Bush performs, only MW's performance validates MW's pick.

3. Quit saying RB is doing amazing. So far, he's been average to below average.

4. Quit saying RB is a bust. He's played 5 games, is leading the league in receptions, and has 1 game winning punt return TD.

5. Quit trying to argue that MWs sack was more important than Reggies game winning TD. MWs sack may have changed the tone of the game, but Reggies TD directly won the game for them.

And finally, quit reading this thread if it makes you angry! Its one thread on a messageboard FILLED with other threads. You don't HAVE to read it if you really hate the guy so much :)

gtexan02
10-09-2006, 12:19 PM
I'm sorry, I didn't mention my point about this statement. If Duece wasn't playing like he is behind the same offensive line, then I'd give REggie some slack. But I can think of 2 TDs, and atleast a nother 20-30 ypg Duece would've had if the Saints weren't trying so hard to get Reggie "involved" in a game.

I totally disagree with you here. Deuce may be good, but if he was #1 the entire game, getting all the carries and catches that Reggie is getting, his production would be much worse. Deuce is a great player, but he is very injury proned, is not a great receiver, and probably isn't conditioned to be a 30+ carry a game back at this point.

Bringing Reggie in spells Deuce, gives them a complete change of pace, provides them with a great 3rd down RB, and allows Deuce to prevent getting hurt.

The Saints have a perfect running back by committee at this point:
Deuce gets 20+ carries a game, catches maybe 1-2 passes
RB gets 5-10 carries a game, catches 5-10 passes.

Both of their production is inflated by having the other on the team, not the other way around.

thunderkyss
10-09-2006, 12:23 PM
Yeah I agree....at this point it seems like Reggie is hurting their offense more than he's helping....I just don't know whether it's the teams fault or Reggie's....

Well, I know from watching the Cowboys last year, that Payton expects both his RBs to produce on the same plays. JJ was the speed guy, MB III was the power guy, but they had the same plays called, depending on down & distance more than who the RB was.

JJ has enough Power to break that one or two tackles........ & Barber has enough speed to get him to the second leve, so more times than not it's worked for him in Dallas.

REggie & Duece couldn't be any more different. He may have to change the way he looks at his talent....... but since they're winning, REggie may just have to learn to be productive in his offense.

Just get that one or two yards, your 7 yard reception, show how valuable you are on the field, so that coach will find a way to get you on the field more often than not. If he can create his own position on that team, to where their base set includes him & Duce, then I would think he deserved to be a top 5 pick. If he's got to wait until Duece gets hurt....... big deal.

thunderkyss
10-09-2006, 12:38 PM
Although I think Bush was a safer pick by the Texans, the early returns don't necessarily support that. Bush is struggling at hitting the interior holes and gaps. He is having problems getting around the corner off a handoff. To be a true #1 back you have to be able to do both of those things.

Currently he is a great utility player and looks like he will have a similar career in stats and game impact as Eric Metcalf. Is that worth the #1 pick overall? That is the million dollar question. Metcalf was great and probably single handedly won the Browns about 5-7 games in a 3 year span. Is that enough production for #1 pick money and salary cap impact?

Bush has already pretty much won one game for the Saints in his first 5 tries...that is on par with Metcalf's impact and has been an asset in every game for a team that has gone 4-1. That is already doubling last year's win total in Week 5. Seems like if your a Saints fan you are happy with the pick and if you passed on him (like we did) we try and microanalyze Bush's impact and production in order to somehow validate our choice of Mario. Bottom line is Saints sucked last year and drafted Bush and are now looking like a bonafide playoff team. Does that mean Mario sucks or that we screwed up? No. It just means that the Saints made the right pick for their team. Period.

*drinks beer* Cheers. Here is to Mario being a commodity for years to come and helping Carr and Co. lead the team to greater glory.

Doug From The Woodlands



The biggest thing REggie did for that team, was keeping them in N.O. To a Saints fan, that is definitely worth the number one pick. If Reggie amounted to nothing, I don't doubt that they'd do it all over again.

I root for the Saints to win every chance I get. I have two Saints starter jackets, a Horn, Brooks, Williams, & a MarkFields Starter Jersey. Although I like the Cowboys, they've never been my #1 team, and when the Oilers left Houston, the Saints became my #1 team.

The Saints look better this year, because they have a home. They aren't playing their Home Opener on the Road against the Giants. They aren't dealing with insurance companies & government agencies about basic necessaties like Water for their loved ones. They aren't haveing to deal with their Bone-Headed QB for publicly saying the same thing they are all thinking.

& they got rid of their bumbling QB.

what REggie does in N.O. has nothing to do with Mario Williams. If we're going to get the Bush monkey off our back, we need to run the Ball. Unless we develop a game plan for a 290lb 6'7" tailBack, Mario can't help.

Mario can be a total bust, but if we can get into the top ten rushing offenses, we can justify passing on Reggie. IF we can get into the top 5, there would be no question why we passed.

thunderkyss
10-09-2006, 12:46 PM
Heres my two cents:

ESPN and the media invest their credibility into promoting Reggie. He was one of the greatest college athletes of all time, and his marketability is sky high. As a result, ESPN and the media show replays of everything he does because they know that it appeals to the majority of NFL fans.


They tore down one of the greatest college Athletes ever to market him. How much money could they have made, if they pushed Vince as muh as they pushed REggie??

But no, they campaigned for Reggie since the begining of his Junior Season, before the kid officially anounced he would come out.

They hyped the NationalChampionship game, pretty much saying Texas didn't have a chance to win, because they were pushing Reggie as the #1 pick. Think about it, Texas had a top ranked offense, and a top ranked defense, how could they not be the favorite?? All you heard going into the game, was how Vince messed this up, or how Vince didn't do that right. Even after the man got his hardware, they continued.

Even at the draft, they showed the highlight clips of every top 10 pick, except Vince. They broke down his Mechanics, & highlighted the reasons why he wouldn't make it in the NFL.

thunderkyss
10-09-2006, 12:52 PM
I totally disagree with you here. Deuce may be good, but if he was #1 the entire game, getting all the carries and catches that Reggie is getting, his production would be much worse. Deuce is a great player, but he is very injury proned, is not a great receiver, and probably isn't conditioned to be a 30+ carry a game back at this point.

Bringing Reggie in spells Deuce, gives them a complete change of pace, provides them with a great 3rd down RB, and allows Deuce to prevent getting hurt.

The Saints have a perfect running back by committee at this point:
Deuce gets 20+ carries a game, catches maybe 1-2 passes
RB gets 5-10 carries a game, catches 5-10 passes.

Both of their production is inflated by having the other on the team, not the other way around.


yeah, you go with that. but know that your 3rd down back gets the tough yards, not your 1st & 2nd down back, and that Duece's recieving stats are on par with Reggies.

real
10-09-2006, 12:58 PM
They tore down one of the greatest college Athletes ever to market him. How much money could they have made, if they pushed Vince as muh as they pushed REggie??


It's debatable how much Reggie had to do with "tearing" down VY.....

jerek
10-09-2006, 12:59 PM
ain't that a kick in the head....

Dude, I'm not going to go back through your post history to find all of the instances in which you have complained about people commenting in other than a wholly positive light on Reggie's game performance, inferring and implying that some sort of ulterior motive must exist. In many of those instances you did not refute their observations or analysis but only insisted that because it wasn't positive that they shouldn't be making it. In the post I originally cited:

Go to a nice website like Yahoo Sports, where you can use tabs to sort the statistics. Sort for receptions, and Bush is among the leaders... then sort by yards per catch and he disappears. 7.5 yards per catch is about half of what receivers usually do. Ronnie Brown's got a higher yards per catch than Bush. Reggie is a nice player... but aside from one punt return he's done very little to earn his hype. He's got a knack for making the big play at the right time... but you like guys to get first downs or punch it in around the goal line too.

I don't understand why we have to degrade one player to lift up the other...IMO, Leinart, Young, Mario, and Bush have done pretty much what their teams have asked of them...nothing more...nothing less....All of them seem to have pretty bright futures if they can just stay on track....And one thing that you certainly can't judge them on is their "stats"...Who honestly expected these guys to come out and play like veterans ? to totally dominate from day 1? ...

Where in that post is Dr. Toro "degrading one player to lift up the other?" Statistical or observational comparisons are the business of the NFL. Didn't see anything degrading in that post whatsoever.

So Reggie is the only player that they've ever used "total yards" for? You were clearly trying to discredit Reggie because if the "lumping stats" is what truly makes you mad, you wouldn't have waited until they started lumping Reggies...just another pathetic attempt to discredit him...Don't be a wimp and beat around the bush...ha ha..get it BUSH....just admit that you don't like Reggie...you think he sucks....and you think people lump his stats to make him look better...just be honest...

Here again, no one was even overtly criticizing Bush's performance -- they were criticizing the means with which it was reported and analyzed -- and nooo, in your eyes they're just hatin'. Total yards is a junk statistic, as is evidenced by Edell Shepherd outgaining Reggie Bush in TY back in Week 2, and I and others have criticized the way ESPN uses it to inflate the appearance of Reggie's stat line. ESPN has a mancrush on Bush and you are simply in denial if you can't see it -- and it gets irritating, even moreso when we vent on it and are met by the No Hate Police defending a subject whom we hadn't even personally attacked in that particular argument.

I'm not going to look up all of the posts in which you have done this. In other posts you point out or correctly answer an unnecessary or poor comparison, but it just seems to me that you are quick to imagine someone slighting Reggie Bush.

real
10-09-2006, 01:09 PM
I'm not going to look up all of the posts in which you have done this. In other posts you point out or correctly answer an unnecessary or poor comparison, but it just seems to me that you are quick to imagine someone slighting Reggie Bush.

Jerek......I don't even know what you are arguing about....I don't care really....The comment wasn't made towards you, and I see how you are taking my comments, and once again I apologize that you are taking them how you are....You can continue to think how you want and I'll think how I want...You can continue to jump in everytime I say something about Reggie if you want....

real
10-09-2006, 01:16 PM
and it gets irritating, even moreso when we vent on it and are met by the No Hate Police defending a subject whom we hadn't even personally attacked in that particular argument.

Except he's in the top 3 in receptions this year. I don't know why you guys have so much hate. Just be happy with "Super" Mario. When you hate so much on Reggie it just makes you look like you KNOW you guys made the wrong decision. It's like a jealous girlfriend or something. Let it go. Props to Reggie, not to mention the Saints are freaking 4-1 for Christs' sake!


You are right "we" hadn't done anything....I was quoting him....I wasn't directing any of my comments towards you....So if me talking to other posters irritates you...just stay out of threads I post in....or ignore me...simple....

And If you would have taken the time to view the post that was quoted in the original message you would see that that it was a Reggie Vs Mario debate...and that is what I commented on....

gtexan02
10-09-2006, 01:20 PM
yeah, you go with that. but know that your 3rd down back gets the tough yards, not your 1st & 2nd down back, and that Duece's recieving stats are on par with Reggies.

Umm, what??
Deuce - 7 receptions for 53 yards
Bush - 34 receptions for 250 yards

Kaiser Toro
10-09-2006, 01:21 PM
Heres my two cents:

ESPN and the media invest their credibility into promoting Reggie. He was one of the greatest college athletes of all time, and his marketability is sky high. As a result, ESPN and the media show replays of everything he does because they know that it appeals to the majority of NFL fans.

ESPN is a business, and even if Mario has 5 sacks in a game and Reggie only scores 1 TD, Reggie will get the footage because there are about 100x more Bush fans than Williams fans. Is it right? Probably not, but unless you want to live in a socialist society, you have to realize that the media will market players who are marketable, and that means Reggie. Texans fans don't matter to the marketing executives, because frankly, outside of Houston and the surrounding area, there are practically zero.

Now onto his production. Is he doing amazing? Nope. In fact, as a running back, he's still adjusting to the NFL and doing it slower than most other rookies. But he is doing very well as a receiver, and leading the league in receptions. He's not putting up huge statistics, but the NO saints were the 2nd worst team in the NFL last year, and they are now 4-1 this year. Are defenses keying on him as much as the announcers would have you believe? Probably not. Is it the coaching change? Probably so. Maybe he is simply INSPIRING his team with his attitude. Whatever it is, something has CHANGED the NO Saints, and they are now a winning team.

So in summary,
1. Quit complaining about Reggie publicity because ESPN and the media have to do it. They invested in him, the public loves him, and we are going to see a lot of him.

2. Quit bashing him to build up Mario Williams. Only MW's performance will determine the value of this pick. No matter how well or poorly Bush performs, only MW's performance validates MW's pick.

3. Quit saying RB is doing amazing. So far, he's been average to below average.

4. Quit saying RB is a bust. He's played 5 games, is leading the league in receptions, and has 1 game winning punt return TD.

5. Quit trying to argue that MWs sack was more important than Reggies game winning TD. MWs sack may have changed the tone of the game, but Reggies TD directly won the game for them.

And finally, quit reading this thread if it makes you angry! Its one thread on a messageboard FILLED with other threads. You don't HAVE to read it if you really hate the guy so much :)

6. Quit starting threads around said subjects if you are going to tell others to quit discussing or do so with pre-requisites.

gtexan02
10-09-2006, 01:22 PM
6. Quit starting threads around said subjects if you are going to tell others to quit discussing or do so with pre-requisites.

ouch, put into place again. Good thing for my avatar signature or whatever...

Anyway, I wasn't trying to tell people to quit discussing, all I was trying to say was that RB-hype is going to be around for at least a year, and that continuously attacking it isn't going to make Mario a better player, or the Texans FO a better franchise.

Kaiser Toro
10-09-2006, 01:29 PM
ouch, put into place again. Good thing for my avatar signature or whatever...

Anyway, I wasn't trying to tell people to quit discussing, all I was trying to say was that RB-hype is going to be around for at least a year, and that continuously attacking it isn't going to make Mario a better player, or the Texans FO a better franchise.

We all have our windmills gtexan02 and I may be eating crow on Carr. Granted it took 5 years. Old habits are hard to break. ;)

LBC_Justin
10-09-2006, 01:44 PM
I totally disagree with you here. Deuce may be good, but if he was #1 the entire game, getting all the carries and catches that Reggie is getting, his production would be much worse. Deuce is a great player, but he is very injury proned, is not a great receiver, and probably isn't conditioned to be a 30+ carry a game back at this point.

Bringing Reggie in spells Deuce, gives them a complete change of pace, provides them with a great 3rd down RB, and allows Deuce to prevent getting hurt.

The Saints have a perfect running back by committee at this point:
Deuce gets 20+ carries a game, catches maybe 1-2 passes
RB gets 5-10 carries a game, catches 5-10 passes.

Both of their production is inflated by having the other on the team, not the other way around.
I am going to have to STRONGLY disagree with you here. If you have the Highest paid running back in NFL history, and he is getting 5-10 carries a game and is not that productive, things are FAR from PERFECT. When you dump that much salary on a guy you need him to take over the position and allow the Saints the option of dropping Deuce and getting a guy at a fraction of the cost of Deuce.

Also reggie is getting lots of receptions but they are not very productive receptions. Very very low YPC.

It all boils down to what you are getting for the price. To the Saints Bush is worth every penny.....but not because of what he has done on the field, mainly because he sells jerseys, puts people in the seats in a place that has trouble selling tickets, and gets the Saints lots of exposure, which they rarely had before.

TreWardTxn
10-09-2006, 01:59 PM
Bush will always need a guy like Deuce in order to be productive, and Deuce is NOT a run-of-the-mill back. Teams won't be giving up those little slip passes forever once they have no fear of the ball being pounded up the middle. As said, you don't earn your money as the top paid RB in the league by leading in receptions and not close in any other category...

gtexan02
10-09-2006, 02:02 PM
I am going to have to STRONGLY disagree with you here. If you have the Highest paid running back in NFL history, and he is getting 5-10 carries a game and is not that productive, things are FAR from PERFECT. When you dump that much salary on a guy you need him to take over the position and allow the Saints the option of dropping Deuce and getting a guy at a fraction of the cost of Deuce.

Also reggie is getting lots of receptions but they are not very productive receptions. Very very low YPC.

It all boils down to what you are getting for the price. To the Saints Bush is worth every penny.....but not because of what he has done on the field, mainly because he sells jerseys, puts people in the seats in a place that has trouble selling tickets, and gets the Saints lots of exposure, which they rarely had before.


I"m not saying he's doing amazing, just defending this claim:
Among RBs:
Bush currently #1 in league with 34 receptions
Bush currently #2 in league with 250 yards
Bush currently #11 in league at 7.4 yards per catch average*

*This stat is skewed, because many RBs rarely get thrown to. As a result, I only counted RBs who have 10 receptions or more. The list is as follows:
LJ - 20 receptions - 13.4 ypc
Westbrook - 20 receptions - 10.9 ypc
S Jackson - 18 receptions - 10.2 ypc
K Faulk - 11 receptions - 9.1 ypc
F Taylor - 12 receptions - 9.0 ypc
Gore - 19 receptions - 8.8 ypc
Betts - 16 receptions - 8.4 ypc
Green - 17 receptions - 8.1 ypc
Barber - 19 receptions - 7.8 ypc
Brown - 20 receptions - 7.7 ypc
Bush - 34 receptions - 7.4 ypc
K Jones - 25 receptions - 6.9 ypc
C Taylor - 17 receptions - 6.9 ypc
M Moore - 13 receptions - 6.9 ypc
Addai - 13 receptions - 6.7 ypc
Rhodes - 10 receptions - 6.2 ypc
LT - 19 receptions - 5.8 ypc
Willie Parker - 10 receptions - 5.8 ypc
Edge - 22 receptions - 5.7 ypc
Cadillac - 10 receptions - 5.5 ypc
McGahee - 10 receptions - 5.2 ypc
Haynes - 13 receptions - 5.1 ypc
Foster - 13 receptions - 4.8 ypc
Tom Jones - 11 receptions - 3.2 ypc

So to say that he is not being productive because his ypc is low, is totally incorrect. Sure he's not the most productive of the RBs, but as you can see from this list, he is far from the bottom, outproducing some proven pass catchers (LT, Barber), and has caught almost 10 more balls than the next closest guy.

kastofsna
10-09-2006, 02:27 PM
bush catches a lot of passes out of the slot, unlike most of those backs.

Titan "Tack" Fan
10-09-2006, 02:51 PM
Did you guys know that Reggie Bush has the MOST RECEPTIONS IN THE NFL

The most impactful rookie this season is none other than Reggie Bush.

hollywood_texan
10-09-2006, 03:43 PM
The issue isn't Reggie's talent but his contract.

$55 million over 5 years is a lot of money for a WR!

donato
10-09-2006, 03:49 PM
The issue isn't Reggie's talent but his contract.

$55 million over 5 years is a lot of money for a WR!

It's six years. And in case you didn't notice he's catching a lot of passes out of the backfield and returned a punt for a TD.

hollywood_texan
10-09-2006, 03:57 PM
It's six years. And in case you didn't notice he's catching a lot of passes out of the backfield and returned a punt for a TD.

Compared to what top wide receivers and running backs in the NFL, Reggie is paid considerably more.

I am not questioning his talent, but his value in an era of free agency while managing the salary cap.

I think you are missing my point.

Mysteryhunt
10-09-2006, 04:01 PM
wouldnt reggie averaged out just have like 800 yards receiving? even if you're counting him as some amazing receiver that is pretty average, except generally an average receiver can still find the endzone. also there is a reason why top tier rb's and wr's dont return punts which i think the saints will clue in on the first time reggie goes down the wrong way in a pile on the punt return.

my main probelm with reggie is he is not a good value at his position. unless he proves he can run the ball he is not worth being literally the highest paid rb in the nfl. period.

thunderkyss
10-09-2006, 04:04 PM
Umm, what??
Deuce - 7 receptions for 53 yards
Bush - 34 receptions for 250 yards

umm,

Duece- 53/7=7.5/catch
Bush- 250/34=7.3/catch

except if you got Duece in the back field, why toss a screen, when you can grab your gnads, and punch them in the mouth.

infantrycak
10-09-2006, 04:04 PM
Compared to what top wide receivers and running backs in the NFL, Reggie is paid considerably more.

I am not questioning his talent, but his value in an era of free agency while managing the salary cap.

I think you are missing my point.

And you have a very valid point when the franchise number (average of top 5 at the position) for RB's is $6 mil per year and for WR's is $6.2 mil per year and Bush is set to average $9.2 mil on his contract.

gtexan02
10-09-2006, 04:12 PM
umm,

Duece- 53/7=7.5/catch
Bush- 250/34=7.3/catch

except if you got Duece in the back field, why toss a screen, when you can grab your gnads, and punch them in the mouth.

Except for the fact that you originally said that Deuce's receiving stats were on par with Reggies. Unless you are ONLY looking at yards per catch, they are not even remotely similar.
7 receptions vs. 34
53 yards vs. 250

thunderkyss
10-09-2006, 04:14 PM
The issue isn't Reggie's talent but his contract.

$55 million over 6 years is a lot of money for a WR!

Not really any reciever taken with the #2 pick next year will get even more.

The problem is paying him all that, to be the #3 reciever.

Now as a reciever, he is doing very well, Chad Johnson, SteveSmith, Terrell Owens, Even Andre Johnson didn't have this kind of impact their rookie year.

I'll actually have to go back and research that, but to my knowledge, after 4 games that's about right.

Well, here's a question. Who is having a bigger impact, Reggie Bush, or Marquez(sp)Colston??

infantrycak
10-09-2006, 04:20 PM
Not really any reciever taken with the #2 pick next year will get even more.

Why do people persist in perpetuating this myth? Rookie contracts are almost entirely based on draft slot and only minimally affected by position. It is 2nd and 3rd contracts where position becomes the controlling factor.

thunderkyss
10-09-2006, 04:22 PM
Colston- 23 catches, 374 yards, 16.3 avg, 86 long, 6 catches over 20 yards, 1 over 40, 7 first downs, 4 games started. 3 TDs

Reggie- 34 catches, 250 yards, 7.4 avg, 32 long, 2 over 20, none over 40, 12 FDs, 1 game started. 0 TDs

psshhhh..... after 5 games, Andre only had 28 catches.

thunderkyss
10-09-2006, 04:25 PM
Why do people persist in perpetuating this myth? Rookie contracts are almost entirely based on draft slot and only minimally affected by position. It is 2nd and 3rd contracts where position becomes the controlling factor.

So the #2 pick will not get as much as this years #2??

I shouldn't have thrown in the position, I know. My bad.

but my point was that next years #2 will get as much money as Reggie, next years #1, will get more..... regardless of position. If it happens to be a WR, he'll get more than Reggie.

real
10-09-2006, 04:37 PM
Was Reggie worth the pick if he becomes a great WR and pretty good RB/KR/PR?

Not worth the hype...worth the money ?

dtran04
10-09-2006, 04:39 PM
RB will stop returning punts once a team (like the Jags) sends a Redmond type player at him and piledrives him on a fair catch.

real
10-09-2006, 04:41 PM
RB will stop returning punts once a team (like the Jags) sends a Redmond type player at him and piledrives him on a fair catch.

That'd be rather dirty...:bowser:

hollywood_texan
10-09-2006, 04:59 PM
Compared to what top wide receivers and running backs in the NFL, Reggie is paid considerably more.

I am not questioning his talent, but his value in an era of free agency while managing the salary cap.


I think you are missing my point.


And you have a very valid point when the franchise number (average of top 5 at the position) for RB's is $6 mil per year and for WR's is $6.2 mil per year and Bush is set to average $9.2 mil on his contract.


infantrycak, thanks for the hard numbers.

I will just add, that drafting in the top 5 is very expensive no matter who is drafted. Which is why most teams really don't want to be there these days. Which explains why trading a top 5 pick the last few years has been so difficult.

Inherently, some positions lend themselves to a better top 5 pick than other positions. Running backs, just aren't good picks in the top 5 compared to other skill positions if the talent is out there, but could make sense if one player is head and shoulders above everyone else.

Kaiser Toro
10-09-2006, 05:07 PM
Did you guys know that Reggie Bush has the MOST RECEPTIONS IN THE NFL

The most impactful rookie this season is none other than Reggie Bush.

This just in - Larry Centers, Eric Metcalf and Stump Mitchell are coming out of retirement.

thunderkyss
10-09-2006, 05:58 PM
Except for the fact that you originally said that Deuce's receiving stats were on par with Reggies. Unless you are ONLY looking at yards per catch, they are not even remotely similar.
7 receptions vs. 34
53 yards vs. 250

Unless Duece dropped 27 passes, Duece's numbers are better. 7.5 yards per catch is better than 7.3 yards per catch. Not blow him out of the water better, but definitely blows the Duece is not a great reciever crap out of the water.

DCSaints_fan
10-09-2006, 07:08 PM
Unless Duece dropped 27 passes, Duece's numbers are better. 7.5 yards per catch is better than 7.3 yards per catch. Not blow him out of the water better, but definitely blows the Duece is not a great reciever crap out of the water.

Deuce is no slouch coming out of the backfield himself but if you've seen him play Reggie is better at that aspect. 0.2 more yards per catch is not really significant. He gathers in the ball cut upfield very fast - faster than any receiver we've got on the team. I would like to see what he could do on deep routes by so far Payton has mostly shied away from them. The 30 yard 'bomb' to Marques Colston in Cleveland was our longest pass of the year ( longest pass while still in the air that is)

LBC_Justin
10-09-2006, 07:17 PM
bush catches a lot of passes out of the slot, unlike most of those backs.
good post.


Exactly,
So his YPC should be way higher than other Running Backs. It isn't which tells you he is getting lots of short passes and going NO WHERE.

As of right now Reggie Bush is no Reggie Bush.

LBC_Justin
10-09-2006, 07:22 PM
Did you guys know that Reggie Bush has the MOST RECEPTIONS IN THE NFL

The most impactful rookie this season is none other than Reggie Bush.
This must be some kind of backwards hillbilly Tennesse math.

If you agree with your own statement, I have a deal for you. I will trade my 100 pennies for your 10 hundred dollar bills.

He isn't the most impactful rookie WR on his own team, let alone the NFL.

When looking at stats for a Running back or WR the most important number isn't Receptions.....it is Yards and Touchdowns.

Goldeagle
10-09-2006, 07:50 PM
STILL lol!


WES WELKER IS GOD!

Huge
10-09-2006, 07:58 PM
I haven't read anything on here. Just wanted to point out that this thread has reached 7 pages now.

Titan "Tack" Fan
10-09-2006, 07:59 PM
This must be some kind of backwards hillbilly Tennesse math.

If you agree with your own statement, I have a deal for you. I will trade my 100 pennies for your 10 hundred dollar bills.

He isn't the most impactful rookie WR on his own team, let alone the NFL.

When looking at stats for a Running back or WR the most important number isn't Receptions.....it is Yards and Touchdowns.

Punt return for the winning TD. 34 receptions. It's his rookie year. Don't get all pissy cause you don't have Reggie on your team.

Headlights of a Carr
10-09-2006, 08:06 PM
thats one expensive mathis!!

Thats what I was thinking, nothing Mathis couldn't do. Mathis could have ran that back also. That was more of good special teams blocking.

Oh I forgot to say.......Desmond Howard............

Texans86
10-09-2006, 09:08 PM
Bush's return voted Perfect Play of the Week on Monday Night Football halftime report. Great. How long does it take for someone to go from superhero status to normal?

gtexan02
10-09-2006, 09:30 PM
And you have a very valid point when the franchise number (average of top 5 at the position) for RB's is $6 mil per year and for WR's is $6.2 mil per year and Bush is set to average $9.2 mil on his contract.

Thats a little silly of an argument though, don't you think? That RB isn't a 9 million dollar running back? By your argument, the only player really "worthy" of being paid 1st pick 1st round numbers would be the QB. 2nd pick is DE (and Williams certainly isn't producing at the same level as a top 5 DE). Linebacker is a significant drop off after that.

Franchise values (average of top 5 of highest paid at each position as of 02/06)
Quarterback $8.789 million
Defensive end $8.332 million
Linebacker $7.169 million
Offensive line $6.983 million
Wide receiver $6.172 million
Running back $6.085 million
Cornerback $5.893 million
Defensive tackle $5.656 million
Safety $4.109 million
Tight end $3.327 million
Kicker-punter $2.468 million

Mr teX
10-09-2006, 10:27 PM
I am going to have to STRONGLY disagree with you here. If you have the Highest paid running back in NFL history, and he is getting 5-10 carries a game and is not that productive, things are FAR from PERFECT. When you dump that much salary on a guy you need him to take over the position and allow the Saints the option of dropping Deuce and getting a guy at a fraction of the cost of Deuce.

Also reggie is getting lots of receptions but they are not very productive receptions. Very very low YPC.

It all boils down to what you are getting for the price. To the Saints Bush is worth every penny.....but not because of what he has done on the field, mainly because he sells jerseys, puts people in the seats in a place that has trouble selling tickets, and gets the Saints lots of exposure, which they rarely had before.

I mean really, is anyone paying attention to this post? This is nothing but Truth, so what happens if Duece gets hurt again? Are they going to stick Reggie back there & give it to him 25-30 times a game? Aaron Stecker? RB is there PURELY to make money, It's no secret Everyone knows Benson is a terrible owner who had problems with the natives last year. Anything to please them & line his pockets @ the same time is great. Again i ask, what if they were losing & paying this dude all this money with the same production? Would people still be raving about what he's doing in NO? Maybe ESPN still. With the money in that backfield I think Duece will be up for a trade next year..... I think we should go after him.

DCSaints_fan
10-09-2006, 11:45 PM
[/I]

I mean really, is anyone paying attention to this post? This is nothing but Truth, so what happens if Duece gets hurt again? Are they going to stick Reggie back there & give it to him 25-30 times a game? Aaron Stecker? RB is there PURELY to make money, It's no secret Everyone knows Benson is a terrible owner who had problems with the natives last year. Anything to please them & line his pockets @ the same time is great. Again i ask, what if they were losing & paying this dude all this money with the same production? Would people still be raving about what he's doing in NO? Maybe ESPN still. With the money in that backfield I think Duece will be up for a trade next year..... I think we should go after him.

Did you mean after next year? They are not going to trade McCallister any sooner than after next year. The fact that Benson is greedy is exactly why they are not going to trade him in the near future. They just signed him to a huge contract at the start of 2005 with a pretty hefty signing bonus. They take a pretty big cap hit if they trade him, in addition to when you figure in the signing bonus they will have ended up paying him $10 million plus per year for two years of service (one of which he was injured).
If they do trade him any sooner then after next year I will be totally shocked. His base pay does not got up that much.

I would note that Pittsburgh also managed to keep Bettis even when he was still in his prime and it looked like younger backs were going to take over his starting role. The Saints dont have any problems with the cap right now. Personally I think he's here for 3 years minimun.

Second Honeymoon
10-10-2006, 12:02 AM
Anyone who thinks RB is only good for making money is fooling themselves. RB has a world of talent and can do a lot of things to help a team's offense and special teams. I think the larger question is whether someone who is in a RBBC (running back by committee) is worth the early pick and the salary cap hit. I could care less about what ESPN says. I only care about impact and W-L record. Presently, its working out pretty good for the Saints and I applaud their success after last year's adversity.

Oh, Texans need to kick the Cowboys in the can next week. I think TO is set to implode, and a Texans upset may be straw that breaks the camel's back. Could you imagine Jones' face if the Texans punk the 'Boys in Irving? Time for some more Botox, Mr.Jones....

doug from the woodlands

Mr teX
10-10-2006, 02:09 AM
Did you mean after next year? They are not going to trade McCallister any sooner than after next year. The fact that Benson is greedy is exactly why they are not going to trade him in the near future. They just signed him to a huge contract at the start of 2005 with a pretty hefty signing bonus. They take a pretty big cap hit if they trade him, in addition to when you figure in the signing bonus they will have ended up paying him $10 million plus per year for two years of service (one of which he was injured).
If they do trade him any sooner then after next year I will be totally shocked. His base pay does not got up that much.

I would note that Pittsburgh also managed to keep Bettis even when he was still in his prime and it looked like younger backs were going to take over his starting role. The Saints dont have any problems with the cap right now. Personally I think he's here for 3 years minimun.

yeah, you're right about Duece's contract & that is what i meant. As far as the bolded, I don't remember any backs coming into Pitt. at the time that really atually threatened to take Bettis' job. Zeroque (sp?) & duece came along but I don't think any of them were expected to replace him. Plus i don't think that any of those guys were first rounders let alone paid anything near what RB got.

LBC_Justin
10-10-2006, 03:44 AM
Anyone who thinks RB is only good for making money is fooling themselves. RB has a world of talent and can do a lot of things to help a team's offense and special teams. I think the larger question is whether someone who is in a RBBC (running back by committee) is worth the early pick and the salary cap hit. I could care less about what ESPN says. I only care about impact and W-L record. Presently, its working out pretty good for the Saints and I applaud their success after last year's adversity.

Oh, Texans need to kick the Cowboys in the can next week. I think TO is set to implode, and a Texans upset may be straw that breaks the camel's back. Could you imagine Jones' face if the Texans punk the 'Boys in Irving? Time for some more Botox, Mr.Jones....

doug from the woodlands
Regarding the bolded.

I applaud the Saints for the season they are having. But let's be honest. Reggie Bush is not the reason for the big turn around.

1. Signed a probowl QB
2. They had a lot of issues last year because of Katrina that made them have a record a lot worse than the actual talent level on the team.
3. Defense has improved drastically.
4. Deuce is now healthy...and is running the ball well.
5. Joe Horn and the best rookie on the Saints....Colston is playing awesome..he is the real star Rookie on the Saints.

Reggie Bush has one of the worst "yards per carry" in the entire NFL. Deuce McAllister has one of the best "yards per carry" in the entire NFL. They run behind the same O-line.

again, I am not a Reggie Bush hater. I followed his career all through college. I live in SoCal. But I can't stand the whole "Once in a life time player" tag he was given and the heat the Texans took over the pick. I know that barring injury Reggie Bush will have a solid NFL career. I have no doubt.

donato
10-10-2006, 12:46 PM
Guess who's about to win rookie of the week for the second time this year? I'll give you a hint- It's not "Super" Mario LoL

http://www.nfl.com/rookies/vote

Mr. White
10-10-2006, 12:53 PM
Guess who's about to win rookie of the week for the second time this year? I'll give you a hint- It's not "Super" Mario LoL

http://www.nfl.com/rookies/vote

And that it is the reason why Kubiak has released Mario.

/sarcasm off

Wolf
10-10-2006, 12:57 PM
Guess who's about to win rookie of the week for the second time this year? I'll give you a hint- It's not "Super" Mario LoL

http://www.nfl.com/rookies/vote


Guess who won't win it week 7 ;) (oh that is right, it is the Saints Bye week)

Titan "Tack" Fan
10-10-2006, 01:04 PM
I think it's so ridiuclous how some people on here try to justify why they think Reggie Bush isn't that good. 2 time winner of Rookie of the Week. How do you argue with that?

Wolf
10-10-2006, 01:08 PM
I think it's so ridiuclous how some people on here try to justify why they think Reggie Bush isn't that good. 2 time winner of Rookie of the Week. How do you argue with that?

Pepsi rookie of the week=popularity contest

Mr. White
10-10-2006, 01:09 PM
I think it's so ridiuclous how some people on here try to justify why they think Reggie Bush isn't that good. 2 time winner of Rookie of the Week. How do you argue with that?

Nobody's arguing with it. Read the posts again. Neither one of these posts look like they're "justifying" anything.

And that it is the reason why Kubiak has released Mario.

/sarcasm off

Guess who won't win it week 7 ;) (oh that is right, it is the Saints Bye week)

Wolf
10-10-2006, 01:09 PM
i am not saying RB didn't make an impact, i though Leinart had a pretty good game against the chiefs ..starting his first game and all..

texan279
10-10-2006, 01:10 PM
I think it's so ridiuclous how some people on here try to justify why they think Reggie Bush isn't that good. 2 time winner of Rookie of the Week. How do you argue with that?

Easy, he's won it because of hype. Sure he had a punt return for a TD, but 9 carries for 23 yards? I guess if NO is happy with using the #2 overall pick on a slot receiver and a punt returner that's fine, because Bush has shown nothing as a running back.

thunderkyss
10-10-2006, 01:11 PM
Pepsi rookie of the week=popularity contest

Hey, who is that new guy doing all those new pepsi commercials.

texan279
10-10-2006, 01:13 PM
Hey, who is that new guy doing all those new pepsi commercials.

And those dumb Subway commercials...

kastofsna
10-10-2006, 01:17 PM
reggie bush is the next michael vick. lots of hype over the good things he does, and never a mention of all the crappy performances. ESPN is too far committed to this now, they won't give up, so any SLIGHT thing bush does is going to get raped into the ground.

Titan "Tack" Fan
10-10-2006, 01:17 PM
And those dumb Subway commercials...

i'd go on TV and do ghonorrea commercials for the money he's getting paid to do those commercials.

Titan "Tack" Fan
10-10-2006, 01:18 PM
reggie bush is the next michael vick. lots of hype over the good things he does, and never a mention of all the crappy performances. ESPN is too far committed to this now, they won't give up, so any SLIGHT thing bush does is going to get raped into the ground.

http://www.drunkdwarves.com/images/ddmail/crybaby.jpg

texan279
10-10-2006, 01:24 PM
http://www.drunkdwarves.com/images/ddmail/crybaby.jpg

Why do you care so much about what we think about Bush? And who is crying? The guy just stated his opinion.

Wolf
10-10-2006, 01:29 PM
Good luck Reggie.. Philly's coming to town.

thunderkyss
10-10-2006, 01:29 PM
And those dumb Subway commercials...

I'm making the correlation of Pepsi Rookie of the week, and Pepsi Rookie bought & paid for.

texan279
10-10-2006, 01:39 PM
I'm making the correlation of Pepsi Rookie of the week, and Pepsi Rookie bought & paid for.

I understand that, but who hasn't bought this guy.

HOU-TEX
10-10-2006, 01:43 PM
I think the TD was given to him. Not to bag on RB, but the punt coverage was horrible. He dodged the fingertips of one player then ran down the sideline. I think I could've scored. LOL! Anyways, more power to him, I personally don't care that much.:cowboy1:

thunderkyss
10-10-2006, 02:54 PM
I understand that, but who hasn't bought this guy.

ahhh...... touche..

Titan "Tack" Fan
10-10-2006, 04:05 PM
I think the TD was given to him. Not to bag on RB, but the punt coverage was horrible. He dodged the fingertips of one player then ran down the sideline. I think I could've scored. LOL! Anyways, more power to him, I personally don't care that much.:cowboy1:

Exactly

kastofsna
10-10-2006, 04:44 PM
http://www.drunkdwarves.com/images/ddmail/crybaby.jpg
what exactly am i crying about?

domedog316
10-10-2006, 06:14 PM
what exactly am i crying about?



Saints - 4-1

The only thing that matters is the record. I saw a post where someone thought it was a waste to use RB as a decoy and reciever. I had to laugh at that......that person should go watch some football and learn the game. Football is not all about Stats. It's about the W's. Reggie is an impact player....he dictates what the D is going to do by where he lines up and who is covering him. All this is not even taking into account what a GREAT PERSON he is. Look at what he's done since he was drafted......character is what the Saints are built on now.....we probably won't make the playoffs due to a rough schedule of games later in the year, I hope we do mind you but it'll be tough.

I think the folks who are calling Mario a bust are messing up....this guy "IS" going to be a monster. Barring injury I think he'll be the best DE in the league in 3 years or less. The "ESPN" generation who think nothing matters except for stats are the most unknowledgable fans out there. I just wanted to make that clear as I am not here to troll or anything...I just can't stand ignorance and there is alot of that in this thread.

kastofsna
10-10-2006, 06:34 PM
Saints - 4-1
i'm glad for them. why would i be crying about that

thunderkyss
10-10-2006, 07:33 PM
Saints - 4-1
Reggie is an impact player....he dictates what the D is going to do by where he lines up and who is covering him.

This is funny. he's covered by a single linebaker all the time, or a single DB. The first man usually tackles him, and if that bad ass block wasn't made, he wouldn't have scored that touchdown.

I think N.O. fans are getting a little ahead of themselves. Reggie will be an impact player in the future, but right now, he's just another rookie.

domedog316
10-10-2006, 08:30 PM
domedog316, I agree Mario will be a monster, but what I am dying to know is is your name a reference to you being able to eat 316 domedogs; because, if it is you should enter Nathan's hotdog eating contest. You'd beat that little Japanese guy easy.

:sumo:


hahahah....nah man. Just a net handle I've used since about 1997 or so...used to be a fan of professional wrestling....haven't really watched it since around 2003 or so......It's a reference to "Stone Cold" Steve Austin.

LikeABoss
10-10-2006, 10:46 PM
http://www.drunkdwarves.com/images/ddmail/crybaby.jpg

lol:

The greatest response in this thread...

Mr teX
10-10-2006, 11:07 PM
Saints - 4-1

The only thing that matters is the record. I saw a post where someone thought it was a waste to use RB as a decoy and reciever. I had to laugh at that......that person should go watch some football and learn the game. Football is not all about Stats. It's about the W's. Reggie is an impact player....he dictates what the D is going to do by where he lines up and who is covering him. All this is not even taking into account what a GREAT PERSON he is. Look at what he's done since he was drafted......character is what the Saints are built on now.....we probably won't make the playoffs due to a rough schedule of games later in the year, I hope we do mind you but it'll be tough.
I think the folks who are calling Mario a bust are messing up....this guy "IS" going to be a monster. Barring injury I think he'll be the best DE in the league in 3 years or less. The "ESPN" generation who think nothing matters except for stats are the most unknowledgable fans out there. I just wanted to make that clear as I am not here to troll or anything...I just can't stand ignorance and there is alot of that in this thread.


Come on man, Football may not be all about stats but please stop overhyping this guy man, he hasn't done ANYTHING that any other rookie with comparable speed couldn't do. For that matter, same goes for Mario. It's bad enough that we have to hear this from espn every time he gets a gain of over 4 yds. And i as well as others have said this 50d987890 times, Right now, The biggest reason as to why they are 4-1 is Brees. How much of an impact can a guy have if he's not even on the field for a 3rd of the offensive plays? It's not a waste to use him as a decoy, but for 60 mil, is that what NO got him for? More than likely not. People are saying Stats don't matter, but if he were putting up stats & NO was still 4-1, that be the 1st thing people would point out.

Mr. White
10-10-2006, 11:19 PM
lol:

The greatest response in this thread...

Now go back and read it in context and please tell us what's so great about somebody telling a Dolphins fan that he's crying about the Texans not taking Reggie Bush.

At least tell us how it even makes sense.

I doubt it'll happen. That's not the way you trolls work.

boyo
10-11-2006, 10:20 AM
Easy, he's won it because of hype. Sure he had a punt return for a TD, but 9 carries for 23 yards? I guess if NO is happy with using the #2 overall pick on a slot receiver and a punt returner that's fine, because Bush has shown nothing as a running back.

Imagine that they are pretty satisfied being 4-1 with a guy that plays 3 positions and is opening their offense up for other guys like Deuce and Colston.

boyo
10-11-2006, 10:24 AM
Come on man, Football may not be all about stats but please stop overhyping this guy man, he hasn't done ANYTHING that any other rookie with comparable speed couldn't do. For that matter, same goes for Mario. It's bad enough that we have to hear this from espn every time he gets a gain of over 4 yds. And i as well as others have said this 50d987890 times, Right now, The biggest reason as to why they are 4-1 is Brees. How much of an impact can a guy have if he's not even on the field for a 3rd of the offensive plays? It's not a waste to use him as a decoy, but for 60 mil, is that what NO got him for? More than likely not. People are saying Stats don't matter, but if he were putting up stats & NO was still 4-1, that be the 1st thing people would point out.

Funny how people in this thread keep mentioning how much Bush is getting paid, while we paid more money to Williams.

texan279
10-11-2006, 11:00 AM
Funny how people in this thread keep mentioning how much Bush is getting paid, while we paid more money to Williams.

We paid 3 million more to Williams and they have the same amount of guaranteed money.

texan279
10-11-2006, 11:02 AM
Imagine that they are pretty satisfied being 4-1 with a guy that plays 3 positions and is opening their offense up for other guys like Deuce and Colston.

Well he has sucked as a back so far and hasn't done anything spectacular as a receiver yet. So basically he is making 50 mil as a slot receiver and punt returner right now.

jlam
10-11-2006, 12:55 PM
We paid 3 million more to Williams and they have the same amount of guaranteed money.

Negative, Ghost Rider.

Hottoddie
10-11-2006, 01:17 PM
Good luck Reggie.. Philly's coming to town.

That ringing bell everyone will be hearing won't be the Liberty Bell, it'll be the Reggie Bush Bell.:stirpot: :D

Wolf
10-11-2006, 10:01 PM
Imagine that they are pretty satisfied being 4-1 with a guy that plays 3 positions and is opening their offense up for other guys like Deuce and Colston.

I'd say the biggest move was having Drew Brees and Payton as OC for this team

infantrycak
10-11-2006, 11:14 PM
Funny how people in this thread keep mentioning how much Bush is getting paid, while we paid more money to Williams.

Not sure who we is from your postsl, but the difference is IF Williams plays like a top 5 DE he will be paid like a top 5 DE. IF RB plays like a top 5 RB he will be 50% overpaid. See how that works now?

run-david-run
10-11-2006, 11:24 PM
well there is a difference between a sack and a game-winning punt return for a TD.

How about a tipped pass on a 2-point conversion with under 2 minutes to play? That was Mario saving the game :mario:

Anyway, congrats to Reggie, as long as he dosnt do it next year against us he can have as many of those as he wants.

run-david-run
10-11-2006, 11:26 PM
However, the funny thing about being a decoy, he might have to start acctually burning the D at some point otherwise the whole "omg, where's reggie?!?" thing might start to ware off...

texan279
10-11-2006, 11:28 PM
Anyone have the details on Bush's contract? I cannot find them anywhere.

mexican_texan
10-11-2006, 11:29 PM
I don't freakin' care. Go make a thread about who won the NFC Offensive Rookie of the Week award. Our guy is too valuable to play ST.

run-david-run
10-11-2006, 11:30 PM
Did you guys know that Reggie Bush has the MOST RECEPTIONS IN THE NFL

The most impactful rookie this season is none other than Reggie Bush.

Dont worry, AJ only has 4 less and already has had a bye week. Also, someone said Reggie is second with 250 yards...what?
Right now the idea of Reggie is having more impact then Reggie himself, once DC's stop getting their info from ESPN, they will stop giving Reggie all that respect and easy catches.

texan279
10-11-2006, 11:33 PM
Dont worry, AJ only has 4 less and already has had a bye week. Also, someone said Reggie is second with 250 yards...what?
Right now the idea of Reggie is having more impact then Reggie himself, once DC's stop getting their info from ESPN, they will stop giving Reggie all that respect and easy catches.

It's funny too, he's #1 in the NFL in receptions yet doesn't even rank in the top 30 in receiving yards, and the 7.4 yards per catch is pretty bad as well.

real
10-12-2006, 08:45 AM
That is because they are basically all screen passes. They have to give him screen passes to generate yardage for him; because, when they hand him the ball for a run he only averages 3.1 yards. He needs the screen pass to get enough seperation so that he can work in open space; since, he can't break tackles to get open space when rushing the ball. :stirpot:

I was watching NFL network this morning and they did a breakdown on Reggie Bush...They showed examples of where defenses were keying on him...How he created opprotunities for other players...some good plays he made...yada yada yada...nothing out of the ordinary....nothing that hasn't already been discussed on the board before...But then they showed his mistakes....Thats what I was interested in...since I don't record N.O games and breakdown their film....

Reggie Bush Doesn't run up the middle....Even plays designed to go inside he tries to bounce them too fast....They showed one play where he just didn't wait for his lineman and tried to bounce it too fast....If he'd have just been a little more patient then he'd have had a big gain...So I got to thinking and I went to look at a breakdown of his runs...

34 rushes outside.....3 rushes up the middle....He averages 3.5 to the outside...4.7 up the middle.....(Staggering difference)Stats (http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/playerstats.asp?id=7751&Submit=Go)

IMO, the kid is going to be good...May not be greatest ever, but I think he is going to be top of the leauge kind of guy....He is a rookie and he will make mistakes....he has made mistakes....And Just like we see how great Mario is going to be because we can see things he is capable of...big plays he's almost made....And then we use stats to judge Bush....IMO, Mario AND RB will be great players in this leauge....

infantrycak
10-12-2006, 09:00 AM
34 rushes outside.....3 rushes up the middle....He averages 3.5 to the outside...4.7 up the middle.....(Staggering difference)Stats (http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/playerstats.asp?id=7751&Submit=Go)

Interesting, but something is wrong. You can't average everywhere better than 3.1 and then average 3.1 overall.

real
10-12-2006, 09:14 AM
Interesting, but something is wrong. You can't average everywhere better than 3.1 and then average 3.1 overall.

Yeah that caught my attention also...But i figured that plays where he got stopped for no gain or a loss couldn't really be counted or figured in because he didn't really cross the line of scrimmage anywhere so who's to say if it was a left,right, or middle run....even if it was a toss right and he got stopped in the backfield or for no gain who's to say it wasn't going to be a reverse or HB pass...So thats why I came to the conclusion that they only averaged in plays where he crossed the line of scrimmage because then it would be a definite left, right, or middle run....

Point: Reggie is just like Mario...It's clear that Maroney is the better and more polished runner...It's also clear that there are more polished defensive players than Mario...

But both of these guys were taken one and two based on their physical prowess, and the possibility of what they can become...Both are making some rookie mistakes and both are having to learn a lot on the fly....This RB vs. MW thing is O.C.....

Mr teX
10-12-2006, 09:35 AM
I was watching NFL network this morning and they did a breakdown on Reggie Bush...They showed examples of where defenses were keying on him...How he created opprotunities for other players...some good plays he made...yada yada yada...nothing out of the ordinary....nothing that hasn't already been discussed on the board before...But then they showed his mistakes....Thats what I was interested in...since I don't record N.O games and breakdown their film....

Reggie Bush Doesn't run up the middle....Even plays designed to go inside he tries to bounce them too fast....They showed one play where he just didn't wait for his lineman and tried to bounce it too fast....If he'd have just been a little more patient then he'd have had a big gain...So I got to thinking and I went to look at a breakdown of his runs...

34 rushes outside.....3 rushes up the middle....He averages 3.5 to the outside...4.7 up the middle.....(Staggering difference)Stats (http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/playerstats.asp?id=7751&Submit=Go)

IMO, the kid is going to be good...May not be greatest ever, but I think he is going to be top of the leauge kind of guy....He is a rookie and he will make mistakes....he has made mistakes....And Just like we see how great Mario is going to be because we can see things he is capable of...big plays he's almost made....And then we use stats to judge Bush....IMO, Mario AND RB will be great players in this leauge....


Interesting....................................

infantrycak
10-12-2006, 09:42 AM
Yeah that caught my attention also...But i figured that plays where he got stopped for no gain or a loss couldn't really be counted or figured in because he didn't really cross the line of scrimmage anywhere so who's to say if it was a left,right, or middle run....even if it was a toss right and he got stopped in the backfield or for no gain who's to say it wasn't going to be a reverse or HB pass...So thats why I came to the conclusion that they only averaged in plays where he crossed the line of scrimmage because then it would be a definite left, right, or middle run....

You could be right--they have not accounted for 17 of his rushing attempts. Problem with just throwing up your hands and not allocating loss runs is it could give a false picture. For instance if only 4 of Bush's unaccounted for runs were intended to go outside, it would only lower his outside running average to 3.1 ypc but the other 13 being allocated inside would plunge the inside running average to .87 ypc instead of 4.7 ypc. That would make the analysis of "he just needs to run up the middle more because he is productive there" suspect at best.

Mr teX
10-12-2006, 09:43 AM
Yeah that caught my attention also...But i figured that plays where he got stopped for no gain or a loss couldn't really be counted or figured in because he didn't really cross the line of scrimmage anywhere so who's to say if it was a left,right, or middle run....even if it was a toss right and he got stopped in the backfield or for no gain who's to say it wasn't going to be a reverse or HB pass...So thats why I came to the conclusion that they only averaged in plays where he crossed the line of scrimmage because then it would be a definite left, right, or middle run....

That's crazy. The bottom line stats don't really prove his inevitable greatness, So they go and basically make up a stat like baseball. So i guess we can go inside the numbers for Mario & count QB Hurries as him being able to drive his man back behind the line of scrimmage whether or not he even sniffed the QB?

I know it's not you XtruroyaltyX so don't take this post as an attack, but Sports analysts these days are a joke.

real
10-12-2006, 10:06 AM
You could be right--they have not accounted for 17 of his rushing attempts. Problem with just throwing up your hands and not allocating loss runs is it could give a false picture. For instance if only 4 of Bush's unaccounted for runs were intended to go outside, it would only lower his outside running average to 3.1 ypc but the other 13 being allocated inside would plunge the inside running average to .87 ypc instead of 4.7 ypc. That would make the analysis of "he just needs to run up the middle more because he is productive there" suspect at best.

That's crazy. The bottom line stats don't really prove his inevitable greatness, So they go and basically make up a stat like baseball. So i guess we can go inside the numbers for Mario & count QB Hurries as him being able to drive his man back behind the line of scrimmage whether or not he even sniffed the QB?

I know it's not you XtruroyaltyX so don't take this post as an attack, but Sports analysts these days are a joke.

Yeah...Im not big on stats either...and that was kind of besides my main point...You can't really look at stats to judge either player....I was just tryin to use stats to prove a point since it seems to be a popular determining factor around here....oh well....My main point was that both of them are rookies...and both are playing on about the same level...I don't see what the fuss was about with either player right now...But I think both will be great players eventually...

Mr teX
10-12-2006, 10:20 AM
Yeah...Im not big on stats either...and that was kind of besides my main point...You can't really look at stats to judge either player....I was just tryin to use stats to prove a point since it seems to be a popular determining factor around here....oh well....My main point was that both of them are rookies...and both are playing on about the same level...I don't see what the fuss was about with either player right now...But I think both will be great players eventually...

I agree

boyo
10-12-2006, 11:16 AM
I was watching NFL network this morning and they did a breakdown on Reggie Bush...They showed examples of where defenses were keying on him...How he created opprotunities for other players...some good plays he made...yada yada yada...nothing out of the ordinary....nothing that hasn't already been discussed on the board before...But then they showed his mistakes....Thats what I was interested in...since I don't record N.O games and breakdown their film....

Reggie Bush Doesn't run up the middle....Even plays designed to go inside he tries to bounce them too fast....They showed one play where he just didn't wait for his lineman and tried to bounce it too fast....If he'd have just been a little more patient then he'd have had a big gain...So I got to thinking and I went to look at a breakdown of his runs...

34 rushes outside.....3 rushes up the middle....He averages 3.5 to the outside...4.7 up the middle.....(Staggering difference)Stats (http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/playerstats.asp?id=7751&Submit=Go)

IMO, the kid is going to be good...May not be greatest ever, but I think he is going to be top of the leauge kind of guy....He is a rookie and he will make mistakes....he has made mistakes....And Just like we see how great Mario is going to be because we can see things he is capable of...big plays he's almost made....And then we use stats to judge Bush....IMO, Mario AND RB will be great players in this leauge....

Good points, but I think the most important part of this breakdown is how defenses are keying to Bush whenever he is on the field. I remember seeing a play that ESPN broke down after that Falcons game where Bush was lined up as a wideout. At the snap, Bush turned toward the QB, like he was expecting one of those quick screen passes, and the cb, the safety and the outside LB at went to him for that split second. Brees then threw easy 20 yard pass to Horn.

infantrycak
10-12-2006, 11:46 AM
Good points, but I think the most important part of this breakdown is how defenses are keying to Bush whenever he is on the field.

Sorry, but if the examples from the Bush Breakdown were the best they could come up with it was a joke. RB in motion and they say ooh look he pulled the CB to the sideline as Deuce runs straight up the gut for 40 yds--yeah that was all about clearing a single CB like no one else could have done that--like Deuce and the OL beating the front 7 wasn't far more important. Even more pathetic was their reverse commentary--look everyone is keying on RB--well duh, he has the ball and then as soon as he handed it off everyone keyed on the guy with the ball. Simple case of backside containment breaking down--they never had a chance to make a play when the ball was flowing the other way regardless of whether Bush had the ball or Chester Pitts, but they lost their assignments.

Let's put it this way--with the exception of thunderkyss is anyone in the NFL scared of Ron Dayne?--no, and yet Miami bit hook line and sinker on Carr's TD bootleg. Is RB successfully being used as a decoy?--yes. Is every decoy move successful because he is "the" RB?--umm, no.