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View Full Version : Babin Vs Peek! The real story.......


[[Gary Kubiak]]
10-07-2006, 01:15 PM
No trade Value with both of them. RDE is a weakness and neither Babin or Peek is stepping up. Odd are we pick up a true 4-3 DE in 2007 and either Babin or Peek stays as back up.

IMHO, RDE is a position that is completely non productive in both passrush and run defense.

nunusguy
10-07-2006, 01:21 PM
];463189']Odd are we pick up a true 4-3 DE in 2007

We didn't do that this year ?
In all seriousness, we may not have in fact picked up a 4-3 DE this year
with our #1 pick.
I haven't seen V lately, but he made a cogent observation on another thread
recently when he said that Mario was really a "3-4" DE.
IMO, there's a lot to that.

thunderkyss
10-07-2006, 02:21 PM
We didn't do that this year ?
In all seriousness, we may not have in fact picked up a 4-3 DE this year
with our #1 pick.
I haven't seen V lately, but he made a cogent observation on another thread
recently when he said that Mario was really a "3-4" DE.
IMO, there's a lot to that.

I could definitely see him as a 3-4 DE, Weaver as well, who IMHO has produced more from the DT position for us.

But in a 4-3, I think Mario will do well, once all this #1 pick stuff dies down a bit. & Babin or Peek as the other end( Babin playing either side, with Mario or Kalu& Peek on the Weekside with Mario or Kalu), is comparable IMHO to having a Kearse or Freeney on the starting line.

Babin IMHO has been getting good pressure & Peek as well on passing downs. Right now, I think it's kinda difficult to say for sure, what we've got at DE. we swap them in & out so much, then it looks like every play is about getting the passer, that we really don't know how they will play together, and for a complete game.

If I were on the coaching staff, I'd decide on who my starting lineup would be, and play that line for most of the game. These guys have got to learn to play with each other, just as much as the LBs need to learn to play with each other, and the group in front of them, and the DBs have to learn to play with each other, and the group in front of them.

you keep changing that front four, & the LBs have to address the Line differently every down, never getting a good read on the line, or the RBs/TEs.

I also mentioned it looks like we're rushing the QB everydown, which leads us to overrun the RB, and the screens way too often. Against Miami, we were more balanced, and played the run much better.

run-david-run
10-07-2006, 03:22 PM
Our problem so far has been that we all to often have Weaver and Mario as our two defensive ends. With that line-up we are never gonna get to the QB because we have no speed. We need to leave Mario at LDE, Weaver/TJ/Payne at DT and Babin/Peek at RDE. Stop moving people around right now, wait for everyone to get comfortable with their roles, after all almost evey single lineman we have is playing a differant position from last year, then after we are set we can experiment.

texan279
10-07-2006, 03:30 PM
];463189']No trade Value with both of them. RDE is a weakness and neither Babin or Peek is stepping up. Odd are we pick up a true 4-3 DE in 2007 and either Babin or Peek stays as back up.

IMHO, RDE is a position that is completely non productive in both passrush and run defense.

Why don't we give them more than four games in a new system before we write them off as having no value.

TK_Gamer
10-07-2006, 09:24 PM
I like weaver at RDE on running plays and move him to DT and put in Babin or Peek on passing downs, I think Mario draws more attention and effects the line play best at LDE. now once Mario gets some moves down and gets his confidence up, I see him as a full time RDE with weaver at LDE but not yet. at Tackle I see payne and TJ in on first down / rushing plays, and johnson and johnson on passing downs. just my observations I would also like to see Peek in at weak side LB rushing around Mario on passing downs. I really dont think Peek is strong enough to play DE, but if mario or weaver ties up the blockers, he would get to the QB from the LB spot.

rmartin65
10-07-2006, 09:59 PM
If we draft another DL in the first, I will flip.

thunderkyss
10-07-2006, 10:55 PM
If we draft another DL in the first, I will flip.

So when we say clean slate, we don't really mean clean slate as in a clean slate do we??

I honestly don't care what we get, as long as that person helps this team become better.

In Dallas, last year, they picked a DE, an OLB(basically defensive line) with both of their first round picks. Then in the sixth, another DE. This year, they use another first round pick on defense.

Do you hear their fans crying about, "Oh they bet not take another DL...... "

They realized they got nothing from the 4 previous drafts, and understood that the baker needs to pick the ingredients if he's going to make a pie worth eating. They gave Parcells 3 years, & they are happy with what Parcells is cooking.


Most of us acknowledge Kubiaks credentials, we recognize the success he has had at every level of the game.

In his first draft, he's brought some really good talent.... Ryans, Owen, Lundy(he's not as bad as people are saying), Spencer, Winston(sounds like he's close to seeing field time), & Mario. Mayber Mario isn't producing like we'd hoped, but the kid has got talent, there is no way anyone can deny that.

He's also got talent coming in through FA, who wants to be part of a winning tradition. We didn't have to pay Putz, Dayne, Cook, Molds, Gado, Flanagan, Salaam, or even Cowart out the ass to play on this team. They saw a winner pulling the strings, and they wanted to be part of his team.

7 Bonafide starters coming to this team, because of Kubiak. Plus we are developing Winston & Lundy, and we've got a bonafide backup QB, that is more than just a place holder 'till David comes back.

On offense, Owen, Spencer, Flanagan, Cook, Dayne/Gado, Putz...... that's 5 starters, 5 bonafide..... to go with David, AJ, & Chester. we are three starters away from a complete offense.

On Defense, Weaver, Mario, Meco to go with Wong. hmm.. I've got a feeling we'll be acquiring more defensive help in the years to come.

I like TJ...... & I like Babin, and I like Payne & Earl as starters. & I know some folks want to count Dunta as a bonafide starters.

But we are much farther away on Defense, than we are on offense. & it shows.

rmartin65
10-08-2006, 08:25 AM
Sure, he should get his chance to do what he thinks is right. But with some of the playmakers at other positions, it just seems foolish to grab the same position that we did the last 2-3 years, depending how you look at Babin.

Double Barrel
10-08-2006, 12:36 PM
If we draft another DL in the first, I will flip.

No doubt. :wild:

tsip
10-08-2006, 01:29 PM
I could definitely see him as a 3-4 DE, Weaver as well, who IMHO has produced more from the DT position for us.

But in a 4-3, I think Mario will do well, once all this #1 pick stuff dies down a bit. & Babin or Peek as the other end( Babin playing either side, with Mario or Kalu& Peek on the Weekside with Mario or Kalu), is comparable IMHO to having a Kearse or Freeney on the starting line.

Babin IMHO has been getting good pressure & Peek as well on passing downs. Right now, I think it's kinda difficult to say for sure, what we've got at DE. we swap them in & out so much, then it looks like every play is about getting the passer, that we really don't know how they will play together, and for a complete game.

If I were on the coaching staff, I'd decide on who my starting lineup would be, and play that line for most of the game. These guys have got to learn to play with each other, just as much as the LBs need to learn to play with each other, and the group in front of them, and the DBs have to learn to play with each other, and the group in front of them.

you keep changing that front four, & the LBs have to address the Line differently every down, never getting a good read on the line, or the RBs/TEs.

I also mentioned it looks like we're rushing the QB everydown, which leads us to overrun the RB, and the screens way too often. Against Miami, we were more balanced, and played the run much better.

I agree that we need a 'set' line-up and then relieve as needed to keep them fresh the entire game-by relieving, I don't mean on a 'merry-go-round' like we are doing now And, IMO, Babin needs to be a major part of the equation as he can play both the pass/run and pressure the QB.

Kubiak was not happy with Weaver's play at tackle during the pre-season, which 'opened' up more playing time there for TJ--what's up with Anthony at tackle. Is it just me or do we seem to have a lot of ends and few tackles? How was Mario at tackle?

gtexan02
10-08-2006, 03:22 PM
What the heck? How is Mario possibly better suited to being a 3-4 DE than a 4-3 DE? I thought Mario's strength was rushing the passer, and unless I'm completely out of place, I'm pretty sure that DEs in a 3-4 aren't supposed to rush the passer.

Next topic, we had better not draft another DL in the 1st round this year. Tkyss, I get the point you're trying to make, but you're totally offbase.
#1 - Dallas was switching from 4-3 to 3-4, and needed new personel. You could say we are doing the same, but all of our 1st round DLs in the last two years have been 4-3 guys, not 3-4 guys.
#2 - Just because one team does it, doesn't make it right. We have way too many holes on this team to waste another 1st round high pick on a DE

infantrycak
10-08-2006, 04:10 PM
I'm pretty sure that DEs in a 3-4 aren't supposed to rush the passer.

DE's in a 3-4 are not the primary pass rush but that doesn't mean they aren't pass rushers. This is just one of those oversimplications you hear sometimes.

gtexan02
10-08-2006, 04:13 PM
Sorry for the confusion by my statement, I am well aware that at times the 3-4 DEs may be caled on to rush the passer, but I was referring to their primary job, which is to occupy the tackles and let the LBs either rush the passer or hit the hole