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Mistril48
09-23-2004, 08:19 PM
After week 2, David Carr is the best in the NFL ... in average yards / passing attempt at 9.19 yards. It makes you wonder why people are complaining about the Texans getting the ball down the field. Carr also has the 2nd highest completion % in the AFC and the 4th highest overall quarterback ranking in the AFC. For those who prefer to focus on the negative, Carr has 3 interceptions, the same as Brady, Testaverde and Delhomme.

In the AFC, the Texan are ranked 5th in total offense, 6th in total defense and are 1 of only 2 teams to be ranked in the top 6 (six AFC teams go to the playoffs) in both offense and defense (the Broncos are the other).

Maybe there is reason to believe that the Texans can win some games, once they reduce turnovers, penalties and special teams breakdowns.

The seven 0-2 teams have the following schedule. Who, other that the Bills, will still be looking for their first win after week 3?

Buffalo (0-2) bye

San Francisco (0-2) @ Seattle (2-0)
Arizona (0-2) @ Atlanta (2-0)
Tampa (0-2) @Oakland (1-1)
Houston (0-2) @ Kansas City (0-2)

Miami (0-2) host Pittsburgh (1-1)
Kansas City (0-2) host Houston (0-2)

My guess is the 49ers, Cards, Bucs, Chiefs and Phins

texan279
09-23-2004, 08:31 PM
It makes you wonder why people are complaining about the Texans getting the ball down the field.

The one thing I complain about is the offense stalling out near the red zone or turning the ball over near the red zone. Turnovers are the one reason IMO that we are 0-2 instead of 2-0, which we should be. David Carr and the offense look better this year than ever. If we can cut down on turnovers and penalties, we'll be alright. :thumbup

Bill's/TexanFan
09-23-2004, 08:47 PM
After week 2, David Carr is the best in the NFL ... in average yards / passing attempt at 9.19 yards. It makes you wonder why people are complaining about the Texans getting the ball down the field. Carr also has the 2nd highest completion % in the AFC and the 4th highest overall quarterback ranking in the AFC. For those who prefer to focus on the negative, Carr has 3 interceptions, the same as Brady, Testaverde and Delhomme.

In the AFC, the Texan are ranked 5th in total offense, 6th in total defense and are 1 of only 2 teams to be ranked in the top 6 (six AFC teams go to the playoffs) in both offense and defense (the Broncos are the other).

Maybe there is reason to believe that the Texans can win some games, once they reduce turnovers, penalties and special teams breakdowns.

The seven 0-2 teams have the following schedule. Who, other that the Bills, will still be looking for their first win after week 3?

Buffalo (0-2) bye

San Francisco (0-2) @ Seattle (2-0)
Arizona (0-2) @ Atlanta (2-0)
Tampa (0-2) @Oakland (1-1)
Houston (0-2) @ Kansas City (0-2)

Miami (0-2) host Pittsburgh (1-1)
Kansas City (0-2) host Houston (0-2)

My guess is the 49ers, Cards, Bucs, Chiefs and Phins

I guess this is a prime example of what Mr. Lombardi meant!

Mistril48
09-23-2004, 09:02 PM
I guess this is a prime example of what Mr. Lombardi meant!
I'm sure you're right Bill's/Texan Fan, but I couldn't find the 'words of wisdom from Bill's/Texan Fan' Tab at the NFL.com site, so I just went to the stats tab.

ATX
09-23-2004, 09:02 PM
also, of the 3 interceptions carr has thrown, 1 was not is fault, that ball was up in the air for 10 minutes, another was at the end of a half, and the last one was the only one that hurt. carr has been steady, and without the turnovers or the defense causing more turnovers, we'd be 2-0. unfortunately turnovers are the biggest killers of teams besides just having a lousy team. IMO, i'd like to see carr throw more downfield. i like the 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 RB set myself. teams can't put 8 men in the box, when we run that set, and if they do we can easily throw the ball and get good yardage. sometimes i wonder where chris palmer's head is.

Fiddy
09-23-2004, 09:28 PM
After week 2,. . .Carr also has the 2nd highest completion % in the AFC. . .That will happen when you have 11 check downs a game...

ATX
09-23-2004, 09:29 PM
my biggest problem about the lions game was, why weren't we throwing the ball more. the lions secondary is horrible and the ground game wasn't exactly cutting it. note to palmer and capers, throw the damn ball.

infantrycak
09-23-2004, 10:43 PM
i like the 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 RB set myself. teams can't put 8 men in the box, when we run that set, and if they do we can easily throw the ball and get good yardage. sometimes i wonder where chris palmer's head is.

Well Armstrong was in for 30 plays in Detroit--maybe Palmer's head believes in 3 WR sets, but those who don't want to see anything but running plays don't notice it.

infantrycak
09-23-2004, 10:47 PM
we have something in common. we have pretty much the same mindset. do you ever wonder what dom is writing down on the sidelines? i think they are love letters to women in japan. JMO

Gotta love internet BS theories such as--DD is fumbling (on the 11th play of the game in the first game of the season) because they are using him too much or Capers doesn't know what he is doing because he is taking notes (translated to he is studying what is going on).

Jeez, torn between whether I want the Texans to win just because I believe in them or just to make it stop.

HJam72
09-23-2004, 11:03 PM
Speaking of Carr's completion percentage:

That will happen when you have 11 check downs a game...

Some of us are giving Carr's recent performances a little too much credit, while others are going way overboard the other way. I don't think he's really proven anything yet (this year compared to last), but he shows signs that he might if he were more well protected. I can't believe that Carr is ever going to the line looking for a dump off to DD. That's just not what QB's want, but he's apparently being pressured into it. Every time Carr dumps to DD, there's another pass play that was a chance at hitting the deeper wide-outs. I think some people actually don't realize that. The staff isn't calling for Carr to dump to DD. It's just who he has time to hit (or thinks he does). 5 sacks and I don't know how many pressures is not gonna work.

I would not say that Carr's interceptions so far are a problem. He's getting pressured and some are excusable anyway. Besides, interceptions are going to happen and some of them are almost equal to a punt (if it's a long one on 3rd down). DDs fumbles are much much worse. I can name at least 3 things that are worse than Carr's interceptions: DDs FUMBLES (75% of the problem), no pass rush, and not enough protection. You could possible throw in that kickoff return and a rookie corner also, before harping on Carr's picks, but some have already given up on him. We can't fire and trade everybody.
:dontknowa

Having said that, he is NOT the best QB in the NFL, YET. There are 2 of them in our own division that are better at the present time.

TexanExile
09-24-2004, 09:04 AM
I can name at least 3 things that are worse than Carr's interceptions: DDs FUMBLES (75% of the problem), no pass rush, and not enough protection. You could possible throw in that kickoff return and a rookie corner also, before harping on Carr's picks, but some have already given up on him. We can't fire and trade everybody.


You nailed it.

I just watched the highlights of the Chiefs/Panthers game again. To a degree the Chiefs looked bad because they were being pressured more than Houston's defense will do to them. I can't foresee the Texans pass rush (is there such a thing right now?) bringing it like Carolina did--not even close. Trent Green WILL have a better day than he did last week (1 pick and 1 fumble, 3 sacks, 50% completions).

Does CARR need to have a better game than last week? If DD's still the Crisco Kid and lets the ball squirt into KC's waiting arms, then it may not matter. STATISTICALLY, he's fine, but he needs to spread the ball more evenly among his WRs/TEs and not constantly resort to DD. And unless he gets the time to throw the ball, I'm sure he'll go back to the RB checkdown 8-10 times again.

SBTexans08
09-24-2004, 09:20 AM
Trent Green WILL have a better day than he did last week (1 pick and 1 fumble, 3 sacks, 50% completions).

Does CARR need to have a better game than last week? .

Yes he does cause Green is far more experienced than Harrington is and if Harrington made things happen...you bet Green will.....especially being @ home! Not too good looks like.........we need to get a pass rush going or else this guy is going to pick our D apart!

dalemurphy
09-24-2004, 01:42 PM
That will happen when you have 11 check downs a game...

Stop complaining about that! It shows that he's going through progressions and making good decisions. Davis averaged 8.6 yards per completion on those checkdowns. IT's not as if they were wasted plays. Carr is finding open players and giving them opportunities to make plays. That is a good thing!!!

These short passes to Davis are not the naked swing passes that SD uses with LT or that Aikman used for years with Emmitt Smith. Those are simply safety valves that rely solely on the ability of those backs to make something special happen. Davis is actually running a route and part of the passing offense most of the time.

Vinny
09-24-2004, 01:50 PM
Stop complaining about that! It shows that he's going through progressions and making good decisions. To me it looked like Davis was the first option instead of being a part of a progressive check down. They weren't wasted plays but the Lions were giving us those passes. We took them and you are right about the fact that they worked, but our problem isn't between the 20's. It's scoring.

These short passes to Davis are not the naked swing passes that SD uses with LT or that Aikman used for years with Emmitt Smith. Those are simply safety valves that rely solely on the ability of those backs to make something special happen. Davis is actually running a route and part of the passing offense most of the time. I beg to differ. Smith and LT often find a seam and press up the field in a true pass route. Dom only runs a short curl turn-around after sneaking thru the line underneath the linebacker drops. That is not exactly running much of a pass pattern.

Nawzer
09-24-2004, 02:14 PM
I thought Carr had a brilliant second half in Detroit. He made things happen when the o-line wasn't doing it's job. As for the stats, I'd rather he be like a Tom Brady who just finds a way to win rather than say a Peyton Manning or Mike Vick. Even thought those two guys are outstanding, I'd rather have a QB who may not be in the top catagory but will make the plays when it has to be made. I'm not worried about David Carr, he's going to have a fine year.

jacquescas
09-24-2004, 02:18 PM
alot of his stats come from the fact that he has thrown 16 easy passes to DD.

if you calculate the passes not thrown to the RB he has a rating of just 75.1

Fiddy
09-24-2004, 03:20 PM
It shows that he's going through progressions and making good decisions. . .Then Carr can read defenses with the best of them because there were plays when he took 2 steps back and spent 1.5 seconds in the pocket and then unloaded it to Davis....

Lucky
09-24-2004, 04:06 PM
To me it looked like Davis was the first option instead of being a part of a progressive check down...
Right. It is a short pass pattern designed to get DD open underneath. As the great Craig James ( :rolleyes: ) diagramed in the Bronco preseason game, the TE clears out the LBs with an up route, and Davis slides out of the backfield after faking a block. It's a called play, it works more often than not, so I guess we'll see it until someone stops it or Domanick breaks down.

infantrycak
09-24-2004, 05:04 PM
alot of his stats come from the fact that he has thrown 16 easy passes to DD.

if you calculate the passes not thrown to the RB he has a rating of just 75.1

And if you take out Barry Sanders' runs of over 20 yds, he has a 1 yd average.

That may not be the actual number, but you get the point. Sanders got stuffed more than anyone around, but his ability to break off long ones made his average high. Every QB benefits from "safe" passes--that is why they throw them.

Mistril48
09-24-2004, 05:11 PM
... our problem isn't between the 20's. It's scoring...
Exactly.

I guess my point is that a lot is working reasonably well now (and although you have to be cautious about stats (lies, damn lies and statistics) they do show some meaningful performance) and we have something to pivot around. Obviously, things aren't perfect, or we wouldn't be 0-2, but I don't think this early record justifies all the 'throw the baby out with the bath water' and 'fire everyone' posts throughout the MB. I believe the offense has been productive, although the turnovers have reduced their opportunities to score.

I can't quickly put my fingers on the stat right now, but I believe that the Texans were fairly highly rated last year in red zone production. If my recollection is correct, perhaps there is reason to believe the Texans will be able to 'tweak' their scoring issues.

texasguy346
09-24-2004, 05:21 PM
I can't quickly put my fingers on the stat right now, but I believe that the Texans were fairly highly rated last year in red zone production. If my recollection is correct, perhaps there is reason to believe the Texans will be able to 'tweak' their scoring issues.

I think they were among the league leaders in red zone production last year. I want to say they were in the top 5 or so, but I am not certain of it.

Vinny
09-24-2004, 05:21 PM
We were better in the red zone last year, and I really think we have struggled with the new blocking scheme to some extent and we are bound to get better in this area with more experience and film study. I think most of the people who want someone fired are the guys with unrealistic playoff expectations and figured we 'should' beat teams like the Lions and the Chargers. Most still do not understand that there is no Vanderbilt in the NFL. In all levels of football there are 'haves' and 'have nots'....except in the NFL.

Ibar_Harry
09-25-2004, 06:03 PM
Vinny! You are beginning to think the same thing. Why don't you elaborate a little more to the rest of them about what might be happening with the line splits and how that may be impacting Carr. People are criticizing the unloading of the ball, but it might be necessary, because of the O-line blocking scheme changes. I'm not so certain its fixable. You might have some different feelings on that. I would appreciate hearing what you are thinking on this matter.

Vinny
09-25-2004, 06:22 PM
I'm not sure right now Ibar. I have looked at the game and I am still not sure about the line splits and if it has any net effect on the passing game (although if I had to wager money on it I would lean that way). I remember reading or hearing something about how the splits are a bit larger then they were last year due to the new techniques that are being taught. The larger, slower linemen are the guys who would have more trouble with this. Especially a guy like Washington (he gave up one of the sacks when he came in for the injured Weigert). I even asked John McClain via 610 and I don't think he knows or just didn't answer me. Keep in mind most of our line problems are inside instead of outside. Teams with outstanding Tackles tend to give us more trouble than teams with outstanding edge rushers. Not only is our blocking scheme a new scheme but our entire left side are first time starters at their positions. Personally I don't think Carr has the best instincts in the pocket but I also think that our line has not worked well as a unit at times, but I think with better protection Carr will be able to find the more complex and longer developing routes as the season progresses. It just may take till the bye week to get enough of the mistakes on film and get the guys comfortable with the remedies.

Ibar_Harry
09-25-2004, 06:34 PM
Thanks Vinny, I just started another thread on this subject, I just think its true for a whole variety of reasons. I think it represents a big change in the offensive mind set of the team. I appreciate and respect your thoughts, but I really think its a much bigger problem than most of us realize. Particularly with Hollings out the emphasis on the run could be disasterous to us. We simply can not afford to loose DD at this stage of the game. We really don't have an effective replacement.