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View Full Version : Anyone else think it would have been different with DD?


Stros5Texans80
10-03-2006, 06:07 AM
I personally think that we could have gone 3-1 in our first four if we still had Davis. :hides:

HJam72
10-03-2006, 06:10 AM
No, I wouldn't say 3-1, but I would say 2-2 with us beating Washington and not getting stomped so bad by Philly and Indy.

Sad part is I think we might very well have gotten the same result by starting Morency in game #1, going with him, and not trading him, but we'll never know now.

TEXANRED
10-03-2006, 08:31 AM
I say 3-1 with DD. I don't think Philly wins that game if the Texans could establish some sort of ball control.

We have a passing game, Carr, AJ, Moulds, O.D. We just don't have a running game. Unless Kubiak wants to surrender to that fact, and do what the Raiders did in there Super-Bowl run, its going to be a long season.

Hulk75
10-03-2006, 08:38 AM
I personally think that we could have gone 3-1 in our first four if we still had Davis. :hides:

Yes I do I think atleast 2-2, Dayne and Samkon miss cut back lanes............They hit the hole and then barry their head into the back of lineman, Domanick will hit those cut lanes and get yards that are not there.

jerek
10-03-2006, 09:59 AM
Not sure a healthy Davis puts us over Indy, but I could see us as potentially beating both Philly and the Skins with a legitimate running threat and improved ball control.

thunderkyss
10-03-2006, 10:10 AM
I say 3-1 with DD. I don't think Philly wins that game if the Texans could establish some sort of ball control.

We have a passing game, Carr, AJ, Moulds, O.D. We just don't have a running game. Unless Kubiak wants to surrender to that fact, and do what the Raiders did in there Super-Bowl run, its going to be a long season.

I could definitely see us winning the Philly & Washington Games if we had DD.... Indy as well. I don' t think it would have happened, our OLine has been that bad. We aren't even running any zone blocking.... I think we tried once Sunday.

From Leftgaurd to RightTackle, we have last year's OLine, you'd think they'd be able to do a better job run blocking, but I don't see it.... I don't know what the deal is.

I'm a big DD fan, I think he'd have done more to keep us on the field longer, but I don't see a definite win if he was with us.

I'm hoping people see that it takes more than 4.3 speed, and good moves to gain a yard in the NFL. Whatever that intangible is that makes it happen, DD had it, and you don't just trade that away for the next hot thing, when there is no gaurantee that he has it. Seriously, this is no knock on Reggie, but to think he'd be doing any better on our team than he is doing in NewOrleans, when they are throwing the ball & running the ball pretty well, would just be silly.

That 4.3 speed is jawdropping, and the open field vision is truely aweinspiring. But you got to get him out there in the open field first, and that just don't happen as often, or easily in the NFL.

thunderkyss
10-03-2006, 10:17 AM
I say 3-1 with DD. I don't think Philly wins that game if the Texans could establish some sort of ball control.

We have a passing game, Carr, AJ, Moulds, O.D. We just don't have a running game. Unless Kubiak wants to surrender to that fact, and do what the Raiders did in there Super-Bowl run, its going to be a long season.

I think Kubiak is smart enough to go with what is working. The only thing that has stopped us from having over 300 yards passing so far, has been our offensive line, and a few funky looking plays...... the fumbles.

I'm also glad that Kubiak is smart enough not to give up on the running game completely. That's exactly what the other team wants us to do. If he did, you can say goodbye to the passing TDs, the QB naked bootleg into the endzone, & DanteCullpepper being the most sacked QB in the NFl.

Hervoyel
10-03-2006, 10:58 AM
I think with a healthy running game we could be 2-2. You have to keep in mind that while having a running game is going to take away some of the other teams drives (which is good) it's not going to stop them on the drives they still have. Washington rolled over our defense. They probably still win that game even if we have a good running game.

Phily was a closer game than Washington. With a real running game I think we win our opener and this Miami game but lose to Indy and Washington.

real
10-03-2006, 06:40 PM
A LOT OF YOU ARE CONTRADICTING YOURSELVES IN THIS THREAD....YOU SAY DD WOULD IMPROVE OUR RUN GAME, BUT WHEN I STARTED A THREAD OL vs. RB....MANY OF YOU PICKED OL AS THE PROBLEM....AND SOME HAVE EVEN GONE AS FAR AS TO GIVE US AN EXTRA WIN "IF DD WAS PLAYING" PUUUHHHHLEEEEEZZZ

thunderkyss
10-03-2006, 08:34 PM
A LOT OF YOU ARE CONTRADICTING YOURSELVES IN THIS THREAD....YOU SAY DD WOULD IMPROVE OUR RUN GAME, BUT WHEN I STARTED A THREAD OL vs. RB....MANY OF YOU PICKED OL AS THE PROBLEM....AND SOME HAVE EVEN GONE AS FAR AS TO GIVE US AN EXTRA WIN "IF DD WAS PLAYING" PUUUHHHHLEEEEEZZZ

why don't you call them out by name...... the ones contradicting themselves.

I for one, believe that DD will give us a better running game, because that's what he does. Produce behind a bad line. That's what he's been doing for three years now.

The one game most of us are giving us with DD, is the Philly game, where we didn't see much of Dayne, and didn't even have Gado.... so, there really isn't any contradiction there.

We've seen RonDayne produce in our other games. The difference between those games, and the Miami game, Dayne was getting hit several times before he got to the LOS, or there was no hole.

texan279
10-03-2006, 08:36 PM
why don't you call them out by name...... the ones contradicting themselves.

I for one, believe that DD will give us a better running game, because that's what he does. Produce behind a bad line. That's what he's been doing for three years now.

The one game most of us are giving us with DD, is the Philly game, where we didn't see much of Dayne, and didn't even have Gado.... so, there really isn't any contradiction there.

We've seen RonDayne produce in our other games. The difference between those games, and the Miami game, Dayne was getting hit several times before he got to the LOS, or there was no hole.

Or he missed the hole and ran into a group of defenders...

Wolf
10-03-2006, 08:42 PM
NOT different with DD... why? HE doesn't play DEFENSE...

how would DD make a difference if he couldn't be on the field?

thunderkyss
10-03-2006, 08:44 PM
Or he missed the hole and ran into a group of defenders...

Yeah....... look like they took the run game back to square one. You don't give the runningback the freedom to find the hole, or ad-lib, or look for a cut back. I don't know if that's what happened.

He produced well in Denver in a limited role.... he started Training camp as the starter, to replace MikeAnderson, leapfrogging TatumBell.

He's going to do fine with us, just be a little morer patient. Remember, he became a Texan 5 days before the Philly game.

texan279
10-03-2006, 08:46 PM
Yeah....... look like they took the run game back to square one. You don't give the runningback the freedom to find the hole, or ad-lib, or look for a cut back. I don't know if that's what happened.

He produced well in Denver in a limited role.... he started Training camp as the starter, to replace MikeAnderson, leapfrogging TatumBell.

He's going to do fine with us, just be a little morer patient. Remember, he became a Texan 5 days before the Philly game.

Morency went to Green Bay 2 weeks ago and put up almost 100 yards rushing last night. Dayne was in Denver with Kubiak so he should be familiar with Kubiak and his offense.

thunderkyss
10-03-2006, 09:50 PM
Morency went to Green Bay 2 weeks ago and put up almost 100 yards rushing last night. Dayne was in Denver with Kubiak so he should be familiar with Kubiak and his offense.

Morency did not get 100 yards against Philly here in Houston..... in fact, it was right after that game that he got the boot.

Heck, I remember it like it was yesterday. Looked like we were going to get a big gain from Vernand...... I had been waiting for it..... I wondered why Lundy got the start at all.....

He catches a short screen, or maybe it was a pitch(ok, so it wasn't like Yesterday) & Vernand is taking off...... he's got to be going close to full speed, & he tries to juke the corner about ten yards in front of him....... would've been fine, but for some reason he thought that would be a good time for a double move...... he then trips over his own two feet(& possibly a cleat)....

I like Morency.... I think we should have kept him over Lundy(if we were going to be trading anybody)..... I didn't and don't like the Morency for Gado trade. But I would not trade Dayne for Morency.

I hope Morency has earned himself a starting job in GreenBay. & I hope he goes to the ProBowl for the NFC......

You think Kubiak did the right thing giving Carr an extra $8 million. I thought it was a gamble of the biggest/worse kind. It kinda looks like it's working out in OUR (yours mine, and all the fans in Houston)'s favor.

relax, give it some time. Gary Kubiak knows a thing or two about running the football.

HJam72
10-03-2006, 09:53 PM
...relax, give it some time. Gary Kubiak knows a thing or two about running the football.


Oh, good! Maybe he can run it for us, cuz nobody else is.

TFL
10-03-2006, 09:57 PM
NOT different with DD... why? HE doesn't play DEFENSE...

how would DD make a difference if he couldn't be on the field?

If we could get some good running in we would hold the ball longer, and keep the D off the field.

thunderkyss
10-03-2006, 10:05 PM
If we could get some good running in we would hold the ball longer, and keep the D off the field.

Bull....... we ran the ball well against Washington & Indy..... not against Philly(Dayne saw limited duty, and Gado wasn't on our roster just yet)

Against Indy, either Carr fumbled, got sacked, or someone dropped a ball. Same thing in Washington. The only reason we were in 3rd & long situations (for the most part) was because we got sacked, fumbled the ball, penalized ourselves, or failed to complete a pass on 2nd & long.

Same against Washington.

TFL
10-03-2006, 10:58 PM
Bull....... we ran the ball well against Washington & Indy.....



Are you kidding me look at the stats 61 total rushing yards Yards against Washington.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/live/NFL_20060924_WAS@HOU


108 total rushing against Indy

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/live/NFL_20060917_HOU@IND


To me that is not running the ball well. The 108 was not bad, but it is not well either.

texan279
10-03-2006, 11:48 PM
Are you kidding me look at the stats 61 total rushing yards Yards against Washington.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/live/NFL_20060924_WAS@HOU


108 total rushing against Indy

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/live/NFL_20060917_HOU@IND


To me that is not running the ball well. The 108 was not bad, but it is not well either.

And that 108 against Indy was against one of the worst run defenses in the NFL.

phan1
10-04-2006, 12:31 AM
No, I still think we'd be 1-3. Our defense was just woeful the 1st 3 games. I don't think a RB would have made a difference. Carr would have had to pull a Brett Favre type of performance for us to have a chance. Our defense was dead last in almost every category after 3 games. NOBODY could win a game with our defense.

But even so, we still clearly miss DD. We have never had a bad running game with DD. I have never seen DD just blatantly run into the backs of our blockers, which is something all our RBs are doing right now. Granted the holes aren't opening up in the most obvious of places, but they're there. DD would definitely be a difference maker right now, and it's a real shame what's happened with his knee. Right now, I even think we could use Wells on our team. I think he'd be 2nd to Dayne right now. I haven't seen anything from Gado, and all reports saying how he can't run in the zone scheme seems to have merit.

thunderkyss
10-04-2006, 01:03 AM
Are you kidding me look at the stats 61 total rushing yards Yards against Washington.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/live/NFL_20060924_WAS@HOU


108 total rushing against Indy

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/live/NFL_20060917_HOU@IND


To me that is not running the ball well. The 108 was not bad, but it is not well either.

The score kept us from running. look at the avg YPC, especially for each individual RB.....

Against INDY
RonDayne 11 for 37
Gado 3 for 36 (one run was for 27 yards)

Against Washington
RonDayne 14 for 58...... 4.1 ypc

texan279
10-04-2006, 01:09 AM
The score kept us from running. look at the avg YPC, especially for each individual RB.....

Against INDY
RonDayne 11 for 37
Gado 3 for 36 (one run was for 27 yards)

Against Washington
RonDayne 14 for 58...... 4.1 ypc

We went up on Washington 7-0 in the 1st. Just like we went up on Philly 7-0 in the 1st, our backs in that game had 45 yards on 16 carries, that's less than 3 yards per carry. We were tied with Miami going into halftime, our backs had 67 yards in that game on 28 carries, that is 2.4 yards per carry.

thunderkyss
10-04-2006, 01:30 AM
We went up on Washington 7-0 in the 1st. Just like we went up on Philly 7-0 in the 1st, our backs in that game had 45 yards on 16 carries, that's less than 3 yards per carry. We were tied with Miami going into halftime, our backs had 67 yards in that game on 28 carries, that is 2.4 yards per carry.

We did not run well against Miami.... I'm giving you that. We got stuffed, shut out. I can't/won't argue that.

Washington on the other hand,
on our first possession, we rush twice for 11 yards.... not bad.
our second possession, we rush once for one yard..
our third possession, we rushed 4 times. 3 yards, 4 yards, & 7 yards, not once, did we not pick up a third & short, or fail to get ourselves into 3rd & short situations because of our run game.

our 4th possession 3 running attempts. 5 yards, no gain, no gain.
The first no gain, we ended up converting into a 1st on two consecutive pass plays, so that one didn't hurt us. The second no gain was on 2nd & 8, putting us at 3rd & 8.... which resulted in an incomplete pass.

So up until that point, we only had 2 rushing attempts that got us nada. only one that put us in a bad situation.

We only had 8 rushing attempts in our first 28 plays from scrimage.... only two were for no gains. the other 6 were pretty good. 33 yards on 8 carries comes out to a little more than 4 yards a carry. I'll take that anyday of the week.

We start the second half, with a 2 yard run on first down, and 2 consecutive incomplete passes... 3&out.

Our next possession. 8 plays, 2 consecutive runs. 2nd & 1 for no gain, and 3 &1 to pick up the first..

Next, possession, 8 plays, 2 runs. one for 11 yards, the other for 5 on a 2nd & 10.

Next Possession, 5 passing attempts, no runs what so ever.

I don't see where our running game failed us, except that one no gain play that put us at 3rd & 8.......

Frills
10-04-2006, 02:12 AM
NOT different with DD... why? HE doesn't play DEFENSE...

how would DD make a difference if he couldn't be on the field?

He would swing Time of Possesion which means the D isn't on the field :yawn:

edo783
10-04-2006, 08:29 AM
We would still be 1-3 (maybe 0-4) and we would have more sacks (hence the 0-4), because DD can't pick up a blitz.

Vinny
10-04-2006, 09:17 AM
We would still be 1-3 (maybe 0-4) and we would have more sacks (hence the 0-4), because DD can't pick up a blitz. LOL that's what I was thinking. Kidding aside...it wouldn't have made a difference (wins) to have DD here. Anyone who states this is smoking the good stuff. Our running game would be a little better, but Dom is an average NFL starter (that's not a derog classification) and he is no game breaking superstar back.

HomeBred_Texan
10-04-2006, 09:39 AM
I don't know why we are even having this discussion...

DD is not a franchise type back. He is a fair runner at best. He cannot pick up blocks and runs suicidal at times...

We need to get off the "what if" train and face reality. We need a franchise back and will only find that through the draft...

"What if" a frog had wings...

Sorry, I am not and have never been a DD fan.

Mr teX
10-04-2006, 09:55 AM
Not a chance. The only thing DD would have prevented is getting beat as bad as we did in all 3.

Marcus
10-04-2006, 09:55 AM
The reason why Morency is no longer on the team, and Lundy is either 3rd string or inactive, is because the both of them couldn't pick up a blitz if their, or Carr's, life depended on it.

Come to think of it, DD couldn't pick up a blitz if his, or Carr's, life depended on it.

Dayne and Gado's run production will improve over time, slowly, but over time it will. But for right now, what both of them are doing on passing downs is more likely the primary reason why Kubiak/Sherman wanted them on the team.

Look how much better Carr is now. During the 4 preseason games, Carr basically looked like he did last year. Happy feet, scared, no poise, 'start Sage' threads out the kazoo. But look at the David Carr now (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/mcclain/4234496.html) . . . after just three games, yet with no running game to speak of, and with an injury bugged and unsettled offensive line.

Carr finally feels more comfortable now because he has more faith that the backs are doing their jobs on the blitz. It's not all on Kubiak's genius, and it's not all on Carr's improved work ethic.

Vinny
10-04-2006, 09:57 AM
Morency handled the blitz well when he had a shot here...and he did a good job vs GB. I think that Kubiak wanted "his" guy in here and forced the issue.

HomeBred_Texan
10-04-2006, 10:00 AM
Morency handled the blitz well when he had a shot here...and he did a good job vs GB. I think that Kubiak wanted "his" guy in here and forced the issue.

That is what I thought also, but oh well. We need a franchise runner, but not a Reggie Bush for sure. Look at the 2 backs that New England and Carolina grabbed late in the 1st round. Our time will come, hopefully sooner than later...

texan279
10-04-2006, 10:01 AM
The reason why Morency is no longer on the team, and Lundy is either 3rd string or inactive, is because the both of them couldn't pick up a blitz if their, or Carr's, life depended on it.

Come to think of it, DD couldn't pick up a blitz if his, or Carr's, life depended on it.

Dayne and Gado's run production will improve over time, slowly, but over time it will. But for right now, what both of them are doing on passing downs is more likely the primary reason why Kubiak/Sherman wanted them on the team.

Look how much better Carr is now. During the 4 preseason games, Carr basically looked like he did last year. Happy feet, scared, no poise, 'start Sage' threads out the kazoo. But look at the David Carr now (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/mcclain/4234496.html) . . . after just three games, yet with no running game to speak of, and with an injury bugged and unsettled offensive line.

Carr finally feels more comfortable now because he has more faith that the backs are doing their jobs on the blitz. It's not all on Kubiak's genius, and it's not all on Carr's improved work ethic.

Morency did well in pass protection from what I remember in the preseason, better than Lundy, and Lundy was named the starter for opening day. Morency also did a good job in pass protection on Monday Night against Philly from what I saw of the game.

real
10-04-2006, 10:20 AM
"Does anyone think it would have been different with Domanick Davis?"

--Yeah...we'd be 0-4

thunderkyss
10-04-2006, 10:36 AM
Morency did well in pass protection from what I remember in the preseason, better than Lundy, and Lundy was named the starter for opening day. Morency also did a good job in pass protection on Monday Night against Philly from what I saw of the game.

Moernecy only had the one bad cut block that led to a sack against Philly. But he did much better than Lundy, in run Production, and pass blocking, so Lundy getting that start puzzeled me as well. Unless it was true that the deal to send him to GB was already done, it didn't make any sense.

& while Dayne is an improvement over Lundy, he too has given up at least one sack I can think of off the top of my head.

jerek
10-04-2006, 11:21 AM
Morency handled the blitz well when he had a shot here...and he did a good job vs GB. I think that Kubiak wanted "his" guy in here and forced the issue.

As much as I hate not liking my new coaches' decisions, I'm with you on this one. Morency actually did well in picking up the blitz in the preseason and was substantially better at it than Lundy or any of our other starters since.

Frills
10-04-2006, 12:53 PM
With the DD situation, keep in mind the average career of an NFL RB is 5 yrs.

I hope he is able to come back and be a decent 1st and 2nd down back and gets replaced by a banger who can pick up blitzes on 3rd.

DD's health is not his fault, the blame is squarely on Capers and Co. They couldn't design pass protection worth a damn and rode DD into the ground

TexanFanInCC
10-04-2006, 01:52 PM
ya haveta remember that without a defense that can stop anyone, u cant get DD on the field.

edo783
10-04-2006, 03:25 PM
rode DD into the ground

Kind of that sort of history with Houston teams and running backs.

real
10-04-2006, 04:17 PM
As much as I hate not liking my new coaches' decisions, I'm with you on this one. Morency actually did well in picking up the blitz in the preseason and was substantially better at it than Lundy or any of our other starters since.

Morency should be our starter as we speak...

newtexfan
10-04-2006, 08:12 PM
I would have liked to see Rhodes get more of a chance in pre season.Its fair to say Coachs seem to be having a problem making a good decision as far as RB is concerned

HoustonFan
10-05-2006, 01:30 AM
With DD I think we would be 2-2. The thing w/ those losses is that the games would probably have been closer.

HOU-TEX
10-05-2006, 12:23 PM
With DD I think we would be 2-2. The thing w/ those losses is that the games would probably have been closer.

:confused: Huh? Which of the three teams that basically blew us away would this win have been against?

kingh99
10-05-2006, 12:39 PM
I think Kubiak is smart enough to go with what is working. The only thing that has stopped us from having over 300 yards passing so far, has been our offensive line, and a few funky looking plays...... the fumbles.

I'm also glad that Kubiak is smart enough not to give up on the running game completely. That's exactly what the other team wants us to do. If he did, you can say goodbye to the passing TDs, the QB naked bootleg into the endzone, & DanteCullpepper being the most sacked QB in the NFl.


If you don't run don't complain about the defense. defensive coordinators have been know to punch run and shoot offensive coordinators in the mouth. I wonder why.

Mr. White
10-05-2006, 03:15 PM
DD's health is not his fault, the blame is squarely on Capers and Co. They couldn't design pass protection worth a damn and rode DD into the ground


I think that this sums it up. I doubt that Dom will even be on the roster this time next year.

After he got deactivated, I remember an article coming out in which he said that he's had knee problems since college and that his knee problems were worse than he'd been letting on. The Chronicle's down right now, so I can't link it.

jerek
10-05-2006, 03:22 PM
I think that this sums it up. I doubt that Dom will even be on the roster this time next year.

After he got deactivated, I remember an article coming out in which he said that he's had knee problems since college and that his knee problems were worse than he'd been letting on. The Chronicle's down right now, so I can't link it.

That's what I've heard. Capers and Co. probably aggravated his knee problems but it sounds as if Davis had the problem long before they made him their 60-touches a game back. Severe cartilage tears never really heal and there is only so much you can do to temporarily alleviate the symptoms. I wouldn't be the least surprised if Davis' career is done.

U4ikrob
10-05-2006, 04:50 PM
IMO - DD wouldnt have made that much difference - Our lack of defense gave the games away.

But talking of RB's and Kubiak bringing in his own guys - Mike Anderson is playing garbage time in Baltimore [3rd on the depthchart behind Jamall and Musin]

- Anyone else think that maybe Kubes takes a shot at getting his old back from Denver either later this year or in the Off season

Vs

Kubes drafts a high round RB

Vs

Do you think Kubes will stand pat and hold his cards [Dayne, Gado, Lundu] and wait to see if DD makes it to mini camps and TC next year and can play and if not make a trade?