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TexansJunkE
10-02-2006, 07:30 PM
With all the Mario talk about he being a bust and Reggie being the greatest player that has come out in years. What about the fact that Reggie "Bust" hasn't even scored a TD yet or rush for a hndred yards in 4 weeks. In fact Reggie Bush isn't even the best RB to have gotten drafted this year. L Maroney has had a fantastic start and has like 4 touchdowns under his belt with 100 hundred yard games. Reggie is the modern version of D. Howard, a good college back and a bust in the NFL. Mario has 1.5 sacks, what has Reggie done? TD? I wonder if ESPN has spoken bout who has been the Best Rookie RB this year. Go home ESPN!:twocents:

thunderkyss
10-02-2006, 07:55 PM
Interesting....... I wonder why we haven't brought up these questions before.

You sir are a true Man of Genius... Budwieser should salute you...... Mr "I started a thread covering all the things we've been covering on the board for four weeks now not including the preseason of course".........

Brandon420tx
10-02-2006, 08:01 PM
With all the Mario talk about he being a bust and Reggie being the greatest player that has come out in years. What about the fact that Reggie "Bust" hasn't even scored a TD yet or rush for a hndred yards in 4 weeks. In fact Reggie Bush isn't even the best RB to have gotten drafted this year. L Maroney has had a fantastic start and has like 4 touchdowns under his belt with 100 hundred yard games. Reggie is the modern version of D. Howard, a good college back and a bust in the NFL. Mario has 1.5 sacks, what has Reggie done? TD? I wonder if ESPN has spoken bout who has been the Best Rookie RB this year. Go home ESPN!:twocents:

I believe they are talking about Maroney....

Reggie is a nice reciever, even if his rushing yards aren't that great, I still think they should convert him to WR full time. M. Colsten has been the man for the Saints (Rookie-wise)!

Anyone else notice that the people we think are the candidates for ROY were drafted late 1st early 2nd?

HowBoutThemCowboys!
10-02-2006, 09:42 PM
You have to be kidding me, Bush a bust? How could you spew such an outlandish claim? If anything, he's been by far the best out of Young, Williams, and Leinart..

I believe you forgot to bring up the fact he's sharing carries with a perrenial back in Deuce McAllister, and you expect him to break out a few 100-yard games? When given the opportunities for a couple of 15-carry games, he's delivered with performances of 67 and 53 yards (4.3 yrd avg), which easily surpasses the norm for yardage with such few carries. On top of this, he's been a threat in the passing game-- 52, 68, and 48 yard receiving games, which is a heckuva alot more yardage than most 2nd and 3rd string WRs get around the league. I can only imagine what Bush will be doing in a couple of years..

kastofsna
10-02-2006, 09:46 PM
you know how ESPN is. all about the flavor of the week. right now they're calling laurence maroney the best rookie of all time and etc.,

gtexan02
10-02-2006, 10:15 PM
STOP POSTING THE SAME TOPIC OVER AND OVER AGAIN :)

That is all (its just there are at least 10 topics where thishas been brought up)

TheCD
10-02-2006, 10:40 PM
What about the fact that Reggie "Bust" hasn't even scored a TD yet or rush for a hndred yards in 4 weeks...Reggie is the modern version of D. Howard, a good college back and a bust in the NFL. Mario has 1.5 sacks, what has Reggie done? TD?

Eh...I'm a Mario supporter myself, but like everyone's said in defense of Mario...you're comparing apples to oranges. Stop worrying about who's a bust and what-not and just enjoy some players who are entertaining to watch play the sport. Keep in mind this statement might come back to bite you in the butt once Reggie scores a TD (it would be naive to think he would go the whole season without scoring a single TD).

Mysteryhunt
10-02-2006, 10:48 PM
this discussion shouldne be a week to week thing. there are too many ups and down in the nfl. at least wait till the end of the season to compare the relative performances of all involved, though 2 years is really a more realistic timeframe. i mean look at someone like carson palmer, took a while to see what the bungles really had in him didnt it?

Mr. White
10-02-2006, 11:14 PM
I'll make one point and then I'm done with this for good. After the 1st game, "Mario sucks" and "Mario is a bust" threads started popping up all over the board.

I thought that it was ridiculous to say that a rookie actually DE "sucks" or is a "bust" at any point in his first season. Then I vented a little by trying to judge Bush by the same standard that Mario was getting judged. Then I started seeing Bush's fans make the same argument that I've been making...just for a different guy.

You know what...I was right then and the Bush fans are right now. It's way too early to say a guy "sucks" or that he's a "bust."

I never was really a Bush fan, so I was glad when we drafted the top defender on the board on April 29th. Time to let it go now.

Best of luck to the guys we didn't draft.

Titan "Tack" Fan
10-02-2006, 11:42 PM
Doesn't Maroney play on the best football organization of the past 10 years? Wait, i can't remember...

TexansSeminole
10-03-2006, 12:21 AM
I'll easily agree that Bush is no bust, and that he has played better than the three of Williams, Bush, and Young, but also at an easier position than the other two.

As for Maroney, I always like him, and figured he would be a better "every down" back than Reggie.

texan279
10-03-2006, 12:37 AM
You have to be kidding me, Bush a bust? How could you spew such an outlandish claim? If anything, he's been by far the best out of Young, Williams, and Leinart..

I believe you forgot to bring up the fact he's sharing carries with a perrenial back in Deuce McAllister, and you expect him to break out a few 100-yard games? When given the opportunities for a couple of 15-carry games, he's delivered with performances of 67 and 53 yards (4.3 yrd avg), which easily surpasses the norm for yardage with such few carries. On top of this, he's been a threat in the passing game-- 52, 68, and 48 yard receiving games, which is a heckuva alot more yardage than most 2nd and 3rd string WRs get around the league. I can only imagine what Bush will be doing in a couple of years..

Bush hasn't had one 15 carry game this season. And you forgot to mention his game against Green Bay where he had 6 carries for 5 yards and his game against Carolina where he had 22 yards on 11 carries. For the season he is averaging 3.3 YPC. He is averaging 6.3 yards per punt return. He is averaging 8.1 yards per catch. For a guy who was supposed to be the all around threat, running back, punt returner, and receiver he hasn't shown much. It looks New Orleans is paying him 50+ million to be a #3 WR as of right now. And the guy has 187 receiving yards, Reggie Wayne has 358, Jerricho Cotchery has 284, Moulds has 230, Terry Glenn has 229, Desmond Clark has 232, Mike Furrey has 242, Wes Welker has 222, Kellen Winslow has 228, Isaac Bruce has 320, Bernard Berrian has 316, all of these guys are #2 or #3 WR's and have put up more receiving yards, and I could keep going.

ccdude730
10-03-2006, 12:53 AM
im not going to knock on bush. he has talent...but for someone who can score anytime he touches the ball (which is 77 times this season) - he has yet to score.

i am just glad we got mario!

HowBoutThemCowboys!
10-03-2006, 01:10 AM
Bush hasn't had one 15 carry game this season. And you forgot to mention his game against Green Bay where he had 6 carries for 5 yards and his game against Carolina where he had 22 yards on 11 carries.

Bush did indeed have a 15 carry game in week one versus the Browns, along with a 13-carry game in week three vs. the Falcons. I didn't forget to mention the other games, but chose not to include them since the Green Bay game he made up with a 68 yard receiving total.



For the season he is averaging 3.3 YPC. He is averaging 6.3 yards per punt return. He is averaging 8.1 yards per catch. For a guy who was supposed to be the all around threat, running back, punt returner, and receiver he hasn't shown much. It looks New Orleans is paying him 50+ million to be a #3 WR as of right now.



If he's an extra third WR and a solid backup to Deuce, developing in the wings than that sounds like a good deal to me personally. The mere fact he's already had numbers on a few occasions in the 70s and in one instance 119, is impressive by itself. I wish I could see the same production from the Cowboy's backup Marion Barber, and I'm sure the fact that this "third WR" and backup RB has accumulated more than half of the combined total of Lundy, Dayne, and Gado, is somewhat unusual.



And the guy has 187 receiving yards, Reggie Wayne has 358, Jerricho Cotchery has 284, Moulds has 230, Terry Glenn has 229, Desmond Clark has 232, Mike Furrey has 242, Wes Welker has 222, Kellen Winslow has 228, Isaac Bruce has 320, Bernard Berrian has 316, all of these guys are #2 or #3 WR's and have put up more receiving yards, and I could keep going.

What about those third and second string WRs like Patrick Crayton, Clayton, Lloyd, Marcus Robinson, Ferguson, Northcutt? Or even the Texan's Walters and Shepperd? (Which is the third WR?, cause I can't even tell looking at their numbers.)

texan279
10-03-2006, 06:37 AM
Bush did indeed have a 15 carry game in week one versus the Browns, along with a 13-carry game in week three vs. the Falcons. I didn't forget to mention the other games, but chose not to include them since the Green Bay game he made up with a 68 yard receiving total.





If he's an extra third WR and a solid backup to Deuce, developing in the wings than that sounds like a good deal to me personally. The mere fact he's already had numbers on a few occasions in the 70s and in one instance 119, is impressive by itself. I wish I could see the same production from the Cowboy's backup Marion Barber, and I'm sure the fact that this "third WR" and backup RB has accumulated more than half of the combined total of Lundy, Dayne, and Gado, is somewhat unusual.




What about those third and second string WRs like Patrick Crayton, Clayton, Lloyd, Marcus Robinson, Ferguson, Northcutt? Or even the Texan's Walters and Shepperd? (Which is the third WR?, cause I can't even tell looking at their numbers.)

NFL.com says Bush carried the ball 14 times against the Browns.

GuerillaBlack
10-03-2006, 08:05 AM
The best post ever! :)

real
10-03-2006, 08:21 AM
Williams, Bush, Young....they were great in college....therefore they went high in the draft....teams that pick high in the draft suck.....If Williams or Bush were on the Patriots they'd be doing much more beastly things than what they are doing....they got drafted to bad teams, and all of them are being asked to do more things than the average rookie...Mario was playing all over the line, dropping into coverage...Bush was playing KR,PR,RB, WR...VY...well we know his struggles....Maroney is good and I think he is a better everydown back than Bush...But you also have to keep into perspective that he is playing on a great team....I think it's way too early to call any of these rookies Bust or Stars....

thunderkyss
10-03-2006, 08:26 AM
two carries from inside the two....... and he doesn't get in.

2 touches........ inside the two......... doesn't get in....

Texans Front Row Crew
10-03-2006, 09:57 AM
In comparing apples to apples, I’ve looked up the current stats of the rookies per NFL.com. (as of Sunday)

Running Backs
1. L. Maroney (21st pick) 60 attempts for 294 yards 3 TD
2. J. Norwood (79th) 26/217 yards 1 TD
3. J. Adelai (30th) 46/207 yards 1 TD
4. R. Bush (2nd) 45/147 yards 0 TD
5. D. Williams (27th) 25/135 yards 1 TD

Linebackers
1. D. Ryan (33) 33 tackles 5 assist .5 sacks
2. E. Sims (9) 25 tackles 10 assist 0 sacks
3. AJ Hawk (5) 15 tackles 5 assist 1sack
4. M. Lawson (22) 11 tackles 1 assist 2 sacks
5. K. Ellison (178) 9 tackles 16 assist 0 sacks
6. K. Wimbley (13) 9 tackles 3 assist 3 sacks

Defensive Ends
1. Mark Anderson (159) 5 tackles 2 assist 3.5 Sacks
2. Darryl Tapp (63) 5 tackles 2 assist 2 sacks
3. Tambi Halia (28) 8 tackles 6 assist 1.5 sacks
4. Mario Williams (1) 7 tackles 3 assist 1.5 sacks
5. V. Adeyanju (113) 11 tackles 0 assist 0 sacks

So what does it all mean???

Rookies can be used differently, depending on the teams and the established coaches.

Ryan and Williams start for a “new” defense. Bush is used as a decoy and runs under a new coaching scheme. Maroney starts for a well established team. Wimbley and Lawson are converted DE. Mark Anderson plays for the Bears (top 3 Defense in NFL)

We have the best Rookie Linebacker in the NFL and the 4th best Rookie DE, up to now. The season is barely 4 games old, and there is a lot of Football left. I think the defense is starting to “get it” together and we are in for a good season.

GO TEXANS!!!!!!!!

Blake
10-03-2006, 10:09 AM
Good gravy can we get off compairing apples to oranges yet?

There is no way to compare them since they play on different teams that are in different situations. Some teams are more complete than others, IE the ones that drafted later. Mario Bush and Young went to the 3 worst teams last year. That is the point of the draft.

thunderkyss
10-03-2006, 10:11 AM
So what does it all mean???

Rookies can be used differently, depending on the teams and the established coaches.

Ryan and Williams start for a “new” defense. Bush is used as a decoy and runs under a new coaching scheme. Maroney starts for a well established team. Wimbley and Lawson are converted DE. Mark Anderson plays for the Bears (top 3 Defense in NFL)

We have the best Rookie Linebacker in the NFL and the 4th best Rookie DE, up to now. The season is barely 4 games old, and there is a lot of Football left. I think the defense is starting to “get it” together and we are in for a good season.

GO TEXANS!!!!!!!!

Reggie Bush=Decoy is an Urban legend yet to be proven.

I thought Maroney was the third down back to Dillon.

thunderkyss
10-03-2006, 10:13 AM
Good gravy can we get off compairing apples to oranges yet?

There is no way to compare them since they play on different teams that are in different situations. Some teams are more complete than others, IE the ones that drafted later. Mario Bush and Young went to the 3 worst teams last year. That is the point of the draft.

So who has had more impact on their team....... that is the question.

Who has more impact?? Peyton Manning, or D'Angelo Hall?? should be an easy enough question.

real
10-03-2006, 10:13 AM
Reggie Bush=Decoy is an Urban legend yet to be proven.


What do you have against Bush???

Mr teX
10-03-2006, 10:14 AM
Interesting....... I wonder why we haven't brought up these questions before.

You sir are a true Man of Genius... Budwieser should salute you...... Mr "I started a thread covering all the things we've been covering on the board for four weeks now not including the preseason of course".........



4 weeks? try 2 months since preseason began.:yawn:

thunderkyss
10-03-2006, 10:16 AM
What do you have against Bush???

Any chance I can point to a reason why the Texans is not the dumbest organization in the league for passing on Reggie, and that NewOrleans is the dumbest organization in the league for drafting Reggie, I'm going to take it....... while I still can.

Mr teX
10-03-2006, 10:16 AM
You have to be kidding me, Bush a bust? How could you spew such an outlandish claim? If anything, he's been by far the best out of Young, Williams, and Leinart..

I believe you forgot to bring up the fact he's sharing carries with a perrenial back in Deuce McAllister, and you expect him to break out a few 100-yard games? When given the opportunities for a couple of 15-carry games, he's delivered with performances of 67 and 53 yards (4.3 yrd avg), which easily surpasses the norm for yardage with such few carries. On top of this, he's been a threat in the passing game-- 52, 68, and 48 yard receiving games, which is a heckuva alot more yardage than most 2nd and 3rd string WRs get around the league. I can only imagine what Bush will be doing in a couple of years..

What's son far fetchted about that? Maroney is in the EXACT same postion & has already had 1 100 yd. game, 2 that i know of where he came seriously close to a 100 yds.

real
10-03-2006, 10:18 AM
Any chance I can point to a reason why the Texans is not the dumbest organization in the league for passing on Reggie, and that NewOrleans is the dumbest organization in the league for drafting Reggie, I'm going to take it....... while I still can.

ok...I understand that....

DCSaints_fan
10-03-2006, 10:41 AM
Reggie Bush=Decoy is an Urban legend yet to be proven.

I thought Maroney was the third down back to Dillon.

Did you see the reverse play on the MNF game against the FAlcons where almost the entire Falcons D pursued Reggie, and then he handed it off to Henderson who ran it in? I'd call that a decoy play.

And about Maroney - look at Dillons numbers rushing when Maroney does well. They are comparable. Despite what the media claims, its not just the back, you have to have the blocking. When Deuce can run, so can Reggie and when Deuce couldn't then neither could Reggie. The Saints really only ran the football consistently in one game (Cleveland). Falcons game was average - other two games rushing attack was poor and neither Deuce or Reggie did all that well.

Even given that I have been somewhat disappointed in Bush's rushing. Right now McCallister is the better rusher, but I'm willing to give it time. And I don't think he should be used on punt returns. He wasn't that great of a punt returner at USC, he just had a couple of big highlight reel plays, but his average wasn't that good.

And for your Reggie Bush hype stat of the day: He is leading all rookies in total yardage from scrimmage :bananasplit:

chuckm
10-03-2006, 11:01 AM
Admittedly, I've only seen Bush in the Monday Night game but he seems slower ..... which, IMO, is because everyone else is faster .... no Earth shattering revelation there obviously, just my :twocents:

thunderkyss
10-03-2006, 11:49 AM
Did you see the reverse play on the MNF game against the FAlcons where almost the entire Falcons D pursued Reggie, and then he handed it off to Henderson who ran it in? I'd call that a decoy play.
:bananasplit:

when you are playing an aggressive D, like ours, like Atlanta's, it doesn't matter who is carrying the ball on the reversed/reversed...... that person will get attention. It's not like the Falcons said,"Oh my, Reggie's got the ball, Reggie's got the ball"...... they pursued it like they would have for any one.

I guess next you're going to tell me Reggie had a great game if the defense bites on the play action pass.

Bamaborn-Texasbred
10-03-2006, 12:17 PM
Reggie laces up his cleats and puts on the face paint better than anybody that has ever played the game. We should all be glad that we are living in these times of football perfection. Bush is the next Johnny Unitas, Michael Jordan, Babe Ruth, Tiger Woods, Pele, Vince Lombardi, Abraham Lincoln, Santa Claus, and the Easter Bunny all rolled into one.

Hottoddie
10-03-2006, 01:16 PM
Bush is nothing more than a tackling dummy for the guys on the inside. :stirpot: :D

nunusguy
10-03-2006, 01:17 PM
In comparing apples to apples, I’ve looked up the current stats of the rookies per NFL.com. (as of Sunday)
Running Backs
1. L. Maroney (21st pick) 60 attempts for 294 yards 3 TD
2. J. Norwood (79th) 26/217 yards 1 TD
3. J. Adelai (30th) 46/207 yards 1 TD
4. R. Bush (2nd) 45/147 yards 0 TD
5. D. Williams (27th) 25/135 yards 1 TD
Linebackers
1. D. Ryan (33) 33 tackles 5 assist .5 sacks
2. E. Sims (9) 25 tackles 10 assist 0 sacks
3. AJ Hawk (5) 15 tackles 5 assist 1sack
4. M. Lawson (22) 11 tackles 1 assist 2 sacks
5. K. Ellison (178) 9 tackles 16 assist 0 sacks
6. K. Wimbley (13) 9 tackles 3 assist 3 sacks
Defensive Ends
1. Mark Anderson (159) 5 tackles 2 assist 3.5 Sacks
2. Darryl Tapp (63) 5 tackles 2 assist 2 sacks
3. Tambi Halia (28) 8 tackles 6 assist 1.5 sacks
4. Mario Williams (1) 7 tackles 3 assist 1.5 sacks
5. V. Adeyanju (113) 11 tackles 0 assist 0 sacks
So what does it all mean???

Great info Front Row !
But let me take the liberty of answering your question. It means trade your top pick, or other very high pick, for multiple first day picks.
I think its fair and accurate to say that our 2nd round pick and first of our
3rd round picks Demeco and Spencer respectivelly, each were more valuable
to the team than Mario. This is of course before Charles season-ending injury
in his case.
The only reason to not go this route if there is a franchise type QB in the Draft, and if Carr continues to play reasonable well we should be set at that
position for several years.
We are probably going to be picking very high again next year (hope not, but
just being a realist), and I say if we are anywhere in top 5, trade the pick.
Trade the pick, spread the risk round, and at the same time enhance your
opportunites to select multiple starters, perhaps multiple team stars.

HOU-TEX
10-03-2006, 02:16 PM
Williams, Bush, Young....they were great in college....therefore they went high in the draft....teams that pick high in the draft suck.....If Williams or Bush were on the Patriots they'd be doing much more beastly things than what they are doing....they got drafted to bad teams, and all of them are being asked to do more things than the average rookie...Mario was playing all over the line, dropping into coverage...Bush was playing KR,PR,RB, WR...VY...well we know his struggles....Maroney is good and I think he is a better everydown back than Bush...But you also have to keep into perspective that he is playing on a great team....I think it's way too early to call any of these rookies Bust or Stars....

Both NO and NE are 3-1 so far this season.:confused: :hides:

Haams
10-03-2006, 05:38 PM
In the past I've been labelled a "Bush hater" and I'll be the first to admit I'm not a fan. That being said, I've been impressed with his play so far this year. He's shown that he can move the ball, and more importantly he's helping his team win. Remember he is a rookie and he missed a good chunk of training camp with his holdout. I'm still glad we didn't draft him - but he's shown good potential to me and I think he will be solid if he can stay healthy.

dat_boy_yec
10-03-2006, 09:41 PM
You have to be kidding me, Bush a bust? How could you spew such an outlandish claim? If anything, he's been by far the best out of Young, Williams, and Leinart..

I believe you forgot to bring up the fact he's sharing carries with a perrenial back in Deuce McAllister, and you expect him to break out a few 100-yard games? When given the opportunities for a couple of 15-carry games, he's delivered with performances of 67 and 53 yards (4.3 yrd avg), which easily surpasses the norm for yardage with such few carries. On top of this, he's been a threat in the passing game-- 52, 68, and 48 yard receiving games, which is a heckuva alot more yardage than most 2nd and 3rd string WRs get around the league. I can only imagine what Bush will be doing in a couple of years..

Speaking of sharing carries. Norwood is sharing carries with Warrick Dunn and Vick, yet he got a 100 yd. game, Bush being a once in a lifetime back should at least be close to 100 yd. rushing yet he's not. Speaking of receiving he's being outshined by a rookie receiver that was picked in the 7th rd.

nunusguy
10-03-2006, 09:45 PM
And for your Reggie Bush hype stat of the day: He is leading all rookies in total yardage from scrimmage

jack of all trades, master of none

thunderkyss
10-03-2006, 10:28 PM
There is only 1 problem with your strategery. There must exist another willing party to trade with. Bob McNair said that they looked into the possiblity of trading down and couldn't find anyone willing to trade with, and if you think he is lying about that, I have news for you. New Orleans said the same thing. They tried to field offers to trade down even after Houston had annouced the signing of Mario Williams and couldn't find any offers either. There is your dilemma. You can't force someone to trade that doesn't want to trade, and you don't want to make a bad trade just to make a trade. :brickwall

We had a limitation on our trade requirements...... we did not want to drop out of the top five.

I like the Mario pick, I like the way our draft turned out overall.... but if I could trade that #1 pick, and get Kiwanuka, Maroney/Williams, & the rest of our draft, I'd seriously have to consider it.

DCSaints_fan
10-04-2006, 09:57 AM
I know you are going to say, but what about his return yards. Those aren't from scrimmage. Yards from scrimmage include rushing and recieving but not any kind of return yardage. When you include return yardage it is called Total Yardage not Yards from Scrimmage. It just keeps getting better because when you measure Total Yardage for these 2 you get this:

Reggie Bush 147yds rsh/187yds rec/57yds Pret - 391yds Total

Lawrence Maroney 294yds rsh/76yds rec/190yds Kret - 560yds Total

:rofl:

OK I was wrong, but before Sundays game he was :-) I was never talking about total yardage just rushing + receiving. His punt returns have been pretty poor.

Someone else mentioned how Bush and Mario weren't playing on as good a teams as Maroney, Norwood and D. Williams, so of course they are goign to look better. While I don't think the Saints are a "bad team" the rushing attack for the Saints just has not been consistent this year, except maybe at Cleveland. Deuce McCallister is still a good back and can take advantage of blocking when it is there, but for the most part is hasn't been there. I don't think it really matters who the backs are going to be if you can't block. Keep in mind that good offensive lines can make backs look All Pro when they are really just average. If you don't believe me, ask your head coach :-) Unfortunately, I have not been able to see any of those guys except Norwood when he played the Saints on MNF, so I don't know if its the been the blocking or are they really cutting well and breaking tackles as good backs do.

If you want to mince stats, you might compare Norwood, Maroney and Williams rushing numbers compared to the current #1 backs on the their respective teams. The #1 backs are doing just as well, except possibly with Dillon in New England, and McCallister in New Orleans who only has average stats.

Atlanta
Warrick Dunn 82 365 4.5
Michael Vick 38 333 8.8
Jerious Norwood 26 217 8.3

Carolina
DeShaun Foster 64 267 4.2
DeAngelo Williams 25 135 5.4

New England
Laurence Maroney 60 294 4.9
Corey Dillon 58 236 4.1

New Orleans
Deuce McAllister 64 257 4.0
Reggie Bush 45 147 3.3

I think even more telling, though, is when you do a game-by-game breakdown of their yardage. In every single game, when the #1 back is producing, so is the #2, and when the #1 back isn't producing, then neither is the #2. I won't fill up this post by posting every single game but if you look at the numbers game by game, I think you'll find that thats the case.

run-david-run
10-04-2006, 10:38 AM
You have to be kidding me, Bush a bust? How could you spew such an outlandish claim? If anything, he's been by far the best out of Young, Williams, and Leinart..

I believe you forgot to bring up the fact he's sharing carries with a perrenial back in Deuce McAllister, and you expect him to break out a few 100-yard games? When given the opportunities for a couple of 15-carry games, he's delivered with performances of 67 and 53 yards (4.3 yrd avg), which easily surpasses the norm for yardage with such few carries. On top of this, he's been a threat in the passing game-- 52, 68, and 48 yard receiving games, which is a heckuva alot more yardage than most 2nd and 3rd string WRs get around the league. I can only imagine what Bush will be doing in a couple of years..

Umm...im pretty sure there is a guy named Corey Dillon who plays for the Pats and is sharing carries with Maroney, hasnt stoped him from getting multiple TD's and reaching 100 yards. Also, the NFL average for ypc is 4, Reggie is right around that mark, maybe a little below it. Basicaly, he has come in and played a part-time role, like everyone knew he would. Nothing special.

HowBoutThemCowboys!
10-04-2006, 11:01 AM
Umm...im pretty sure there is a guy named Corey Dillon who plays for the Pats and is sharing carries with Maroney, hasnt stoped him from getting multiple TD's and reaching 100 yards. Also, the NFL average for ypc is 4, Reggie is right around that mark, maybe a little below it. Basicaly, he has come in and played a part-time role, like everyone knew he would. Nothing special.


Why do you and Battle Red bring up Laurence Maroney? I never said Bush was special nor am I willing to judge if Bush is better than Williams or Young. Notice the first sentence of my much critiqued post- "Bush a bust?" The starter of this thread stated Bush was a bust-- good in college, bad in NFL. I stated he's been the best out of Young, Williams, and Leinart thus far. I merely looked into the fact he's sharing carries with another talented back, which in result obviously lowers he chances for success.

And yeah, he is in a part-time role. When you're on the same team as McAllister you have a part time role, just like Maroney with Dillon. A committee. And like another of my posts said, he's doing a solid job at it (especially for a rookie):

-more receiving yards than combined the 3rd and 4th WRs for the Texans

-more yardage then the Texan's combined committee-- a couple of outings with a few receptions

-couple of around 15-carry games, ammasing the amount of yardage that's typical for a back of that amount of carries.


Like I said before, I'm not going off in believing he's special, just throwing out some stats showing a solid player, not a bust.

Hottoddie
10-04-2006, 01:07 PM
Deuce McCallister is still a good back and can take advantage of blocking when it is there, but for the most part is hasn't been there. I don't think it really matters who the backs are going to be if you can't block. Keep in mind that good offensive lines can make backs look All Pro when they are really just average.

New Orleans
Deuce McAllister 64 257 4.0
Reggie Bush 45 147 3.3

I think even more telling, though, is when you do a game-by-game breakdown of their yardage. In every single game, when the #1 back is producing, so is the #2, and when the #1 back isn't producing, then neither is the #2. I won't fill up this post by posting every single game but if you look at the numbers game by game, I think you'll find that thats the case.


If I'm a Saints fan, these parts of your post would have me seeing red at the front office. Why take a media hyped RB when you already have a very good RB & D'Brick was just sitting there for the picking? Or, how much more of an impact would Hawk have had on the team?

DCSaints_fan
10-04-2006, 06:54 PM
If I'm a Saints fan, these parts of your post would have me seeing red at the front office. Why take a media hyped RB when you already have a very good RB & D'Brick was just sitting there for the picking? Or, how much more of an impact would Hawk have had on the team?

Deuce McCallister had his knee reconstructed and both his long term and short term health were in doubt. Jammal Brown had already been converted to LT at the time of the draft.

How much of an impact would Hawk have had - well believe it or not Simoneau has been filling in well at that position and we also have Danny Clark. Although I don't think the front office views these guys as long term solutions. Its going to depend on Payton's philosophy - mayhe just believes in having a monster D-line who makes the linebackers look good. That tends to the be the case with 4-3 defenses. I think he identifed Sullivan as a lost cause early so thats why he swapped 4th rounders with the Eagles for Hollis Thomas (which was really good pickup)

Still, I didn't actually believe that the Saints were going to keep Bush until the Jets picked up Mangold at #29. I thought the Saints were just waiting to see if "their guy" was still there, and that the moving Brown to LT was a smokescreen. Later I could definitely see the logic that you don't pick an RT at #14 unless you have a franchise left handed QB.

Personally I hope we can keep both Deuce and Bush long term like what happened ih Pittsburgh with Bettis. I don't think its as far fetched as some people think. Its going to depend on Payton's offensive philosophy (which is hard to read at this point) and if McCallister is willing to restructure his contract a couple years down the road.


They wouldn't have sold as much Saints Merchandise and therefore would make Tom Benson less money, which by the way is all Benson cares about. He has never been committed to winning. He has always and will always be committed to his pocket. Hey anyone want to buy a used car?

With the fate of the franchise still in doubt, I'm sure this crossed their mind once or twice! Many Saints fans also pointed this out as being a definite plus for the franchise.

Benson is a shrewd businessman, but I don't doubt his commitment to field a winning team, at least recently. He hasn't exactly been Dan Snyder in free agency, but I don't think he has been too cheap to sign good players. He gave McCallister, Brooks and Horn pretty fat contracts. He signed Mike McKenzie to a big contract in 2004. The one incident that does cross my mind was the Hebert holdout in '93. I was too young to really know what went on there.

run-david-run
10-05-2006, 12:44 PM
Why do you and Battle Red bring up Laurence Maroney? I never said Bush was special nor am I willing to judge if Bush is better than Williams or Young. Notice the first sentence of my much critiqued post- "Bush a bust?" The starter of this thread stated Bush was a bust-- good in college, bad in NFL. I stated he's been the best out of Young, Williams, and Leinart thus far. I merely looked into the fact he's sharing carries with another talented back, which in result obviously lowers he chances for success.

And yeah, he is in a part-time role. When you're on the same team as McAllister you have a part time role, just like Maroney with Dillon. A committee. And like another of my posts said, he's doing a solid job at it (especially for a rookie):

-more receiving yards than combined the 3rd and 4th WRs for the Texans

-more yardage then the Texan's combined committee-- a couple of outings with a few receptions

-couple of around 15-carry games, ammasing the amount of yardage that's typical for a back of that amount of carries.


Like I said before, I'm not going off in believing he's special, just throwing out some stats showing a solid player, not a bust.

I think its obvious why we are brining up Maroney. He is in the same situation as Bush (splitting carries with an established back) yet putting up much better numbers and TD's then the once in a generation back over in New Orleans. Basically, we are tired of getting crap from everyone on the Bush pick, even after he has gotten off to a very mediocre start.

HowBoutThemCowboys!
10-05-2006, 05:20 PM
I think its obvious why we are brining up Maroney. He is in the same situation as Bush (splitting carries with an established back) yet putting up much better numbers and TD's then the once in a generation back over in New Orleans. Basically, we are tired of getting crap from everyone on the Bush pick, even after he has gotten off to a very mediocre start.

Well, as you can see, there was no crap given out about the Bush pick from myself. Williams looked came into his own against the Fins' and should build on that confidence. Hopefully it won't come against Bledsoe..

real
10-05-2006, 05:30 PM
Well, as you can see, there was no crap given out about the Bush pick from myself. Williams looked came into his own against the Fins' and should build on that confidence. Hopefully it won't come against Bledsoe..

Check out this AVATAR (http://forums.houstontexans.com/showpost.php?p=461967&postcount=6)....:cowboy1:

Wolf
10-05-2006, 05:41 PM
Well, as you can see, there was no crap given out about the Bush pick from myself. Williams looked came into his own against the Fins' and should build on that confidence. Hopefully it won't come against Bledsoe..


I personally am not expecting another sack and a half from mario, I am expecting a defensive unit to build on the game they had last week.

I am not saying I don't Mario to have any sacks, I just am trying to stay down to earth on this thing.

TexansJunkE
10-05-2006, 07:02 PM
Both NO and NE are 3-1 so far this season.:confused: :hides:
Who has NO played this Year? Then look at our schedule!:superman:

TexansJunkE
10-05-2006, 07:12 PM
Look I know it is just 4 games into the season, but where are all those yards and TD's that "WONDER BOY" was gonna get. If bush was in the SEC or other tougher college conferences he would not have the stats he did at SC. I just think we made the right choice in the draft. I've said it before, you have to build up the big uglies in the trenches to build a consistant winner. Just look at AZ Cardinals about building up the so called "skilled positions" before the trench's. BRAVO Kubiak, With this past draft you give the Texans Hope, even if you're an aggie.:ok:

real
10-06-2006, 08:46 AM
If bush was in the SEC or other tougher college conferences he would not have the stats he did at SC.

Look I think we made the right choice too....But that argument sucks....

1) you don't know that...if if was a fifth we'd all be....:party:

2) couldn't you say that about any player...."well if so and so was here or if so and so had done that....he wouldn't have done this".....blah...blah....blah....:yawn: