PDA

View Full Version : Carr's Win


Pages : [1] 2

Texan1
10-01-2006, 04:13 PM
Carr had a heck of a game. Congrats to Carr.

rmartin65
10-01-2006, 04:14 PM
Good game and good season so far.

kastofsna
10-01-2006, 04:15 PM
he played great.

Texans34Life
10-01-2006, 04:15 PM
Carr's rushing stats:

4 rushes, -8 yards, 1 TD.

:yikes:

Texas
10-01-2006, 04:16 PM
Still he did great in the air...I like how were calling the plays

jmerog
10-01-2006, 04:16 PM
This was the first game i can remember where it looked like Carr put the team on his shoulders and won. He looked like a leader. Johnson and moulds where also huge. Johnson is a probowler this year for sure.

Go mario!

GO TEXANS !

Marcus
10-01-2006, 04:25 PM
Naw . . . he played horrible. He absolutely sucked out there. Absolute bust for 5 years going. Absolutely no poise in the pocket. Can't ever get it downfield. All the sacks were his fault. Can't ever find an open receiver.

Just figured I'd get the jump on all the haters around here.:rolleyes:

swtbound07
10-01-2006, 04:27 PM
Naw . . . he played horrible. He absolutely sucked out there. Absolute bust for 5 years going. Absolutely no poise in the pocket. Can't ever get it downfield. All the sacks were his fault. Can't ever find an open receiver.

Just figured I'd get the jump on all the haters around here.:rolleyes:


speaking as one of the most vocal carr critics, i reiterate what i've always said. I don't give a damn how it happens, i just want to WIN. we WON. what kind of fan can complain today?

afcman
10-01-2006, 04:28 PM
Way to go Carr!!!

He finally had a little protection. Now if we could just run the ball and make friggin' tackles.

A great win at a really good time. AND in OUR house! :redtowel:

texflex513
10-01-2006, 04:28 PM
Thats my QB!!!

Mike Kerns
10-01-2006, 04:28 PM
Naw . . . he played horrible. He absolutely sucked out there. Absolute bust for 5 years going. Absolutely no poise in the pocket. Can't ever get it downfield. All the sacks were his fault. Can't ever find an open receiver.

Just figured I'd get the jump on all the haters around here.:rolleyes:

You say it with sarcasm, but walking to the car after the game, people were STILL bashing the guy and saying he can't throw down field. :yawn:

Mr teX
10-01-2006, 04:30 PM
You say it with sarcasm, but walking to the car after the game, people were STILL bashing the guy and saying he can't throw down field. :yawn:

Really? That's just completely uncalled for.

O.G.
10-01-2006, 04:43 PM
I'm simply amazed how people are saying David Carr had a great game when he simply did what he has done all year. Stat's the same, difference......a win. That being said, I congradulate David. Now, all the hater's, push for Sage to start next week. And as much as I love V. Young, I believe he looked alittle overpowered today.......

Marcus
10-01-2006, 04:46 PM
You say it with sarcasm, but walking to the car after the game, people were STILL bashing the guy and saying he can't throw down field. :yawn:
Hey, I'm not surprised by that at all. As a matter of fact, I'm listening to the radio right now, and I've already heard 3 different people call in say that Carr played a bad game, and they won in spite of him.

I just don't get it.

swtbound07
10-01-2006, 04:56 PM
Hey, I'm not surprised by that at all. As a matter of fact, I'm listening to the radio right now, and I've already heard 3 different people call in say that Carr played a bad game, and they won in spite of him.

I just don't get it.

dont look at me.....alls quiet in the potstirring world in winning weeks.

K.D.
10-01-2006, 05:02 PM
Like I've posted before, Carr is in a no-win situation with some fans. Those fans are the one's who have to try to come up with anything to say to try and prove a point and hate to give credit where credit is due. Carr is going to lead this team and I'm his biggest supporter. Great game DC!!

Headlights of a Carr
10-01-2006, 05:07 PM
They must of been Vince Young fans. :wacko:

or the wonger need feud, oops food:tease:

Vinny
10-01-2006, 05:09 PM
You say it with sarcasm, but walking to the car after the game, people were STILL bashing the guy and saying he can't throw down field. :yawn:In all fairness he struggled with his deep ball. It doesn't look very good this year....he is throwing the ball up like punts too often. Many of those passes are going to get picked off if he keeps doing that.

TexansLucky13
10-01-2006, 05:23 PM
Naw . . . he played horrible. He absolutely sucked out there. Absolute bust for 5 years going. Absolutely no poise in the pocket. Can't ever get it downfield. All the sacks were his fault. Can't ever find an open receiver.

Just figured I'd get the jump on all the haters around here.:rolleyes:

Hahaha. You'd be surprised how many people will still find fault in Carr. Weird

David is awesome. I have been saying it and always will.

afcman
10-01-2006, 05:25 PM
I thought Carr looked pretty good actually. And he's not worried about his hair. :yahoo:

hollywood_texan
10-01-2006, 05:29 PM
This isn't Carr's win, the defense won this game.

The offense played like it has since 2004, 17 points, about 200 yards passing, and 90 yards rushing.

The offense didn't run the 2 minute drill with 1:50 left in the first half on it's own 20. And, the offense only got 1 first down with an 8 point lead and gave the ball back to Miami with around 4 minutes left.

The good news, the offense scored 14 points in the 4th quarter.

But, Carr's stats are the same he always gets, which is good but not great.

Defense played a lot better, and a victory worked out for us as a result.

Against a quality opponent, the Texans probably would have had their jocks handed to them again.

Good win though, and hopefully this is a start. We'll see, they play the Cowboys next.

Scooter
10-01-2006, 05:29 PM
In all fairness he struggled with his deep ball. It doesn't look very good this year....he is throwing the ball up like punts too often. Many of those passes are going to get picked off if he keeps doing that.

every deep ball he's thrown has been with a hand on him, or a big hit as it leaves his hand. even last week's great play action on the first drive had carr getting grabbed from behind. given the circumstances, i'd say he's doing alright. i think he's being told to get some loft on the ball for the exact reason we saw earlier. andre johnson, even in double coverage, is likely to come down with it. if AJ doesnt, nobody does.

Porky
10-01-2006, 05:50 PM
Carr is (so far) playing his best season of football. No question about it. He looks like a real NFL QB out there. He isn't as good as his rating indicates, but to me, he looks like a middle of the pack honest to goodness NFL QB out there. And, we can win with that version of DC as long as he has weapons and time to throw. He needs to be a lot more consistent, especially with his deep passes, but does anyone really want to go back to the dump it off to the RB every play of last year, or the Carr who is finding AJ and Moulds all over the field, incorporting his TE's and his backs, etc. This version of Carr gets a solid B from me. And he is doing all of this with no running game. Kudos to the coaches, and kudos for Carr for taking the coaching. Just needs work on his deep ball, his pocket presence, and fumbling/snap exchanges.

Marcus
10-01-2006, 05:54 PM
every deep ball he's thrown has been with a hand on him, or a big hit as it leaves his hand. even last week's great play action on the first drive had carr getting grabbed from behind. given the circumstances, i'd say he's doing alright. i think he's being told to get some loft on the ball for the exact reason we saw earlier. andre johnson, even in double coverage, is likely to come down with it. if AJ doesnt, nobody does.
Forget it. You're just making excuses for his poor play . . . remember?

:rolleyes:

Scooter
10-01-2006, 05:57 PM
Forget it. You're just making excuses for his poor play . . . remember?

:rolleyes:

lol my bad, i forgot. :tease:

GP
10-01-2006, 05:58 PM
I used to get pee-'od about this, too--The lobbed balls that come down with ice on them. I hated it, and I thought it was bad form by Carr.

He rifles the ball on the intermediate routes, but I think he and AJ have an agreement: "Carr throws the ball long and high, and AJ says he'll go get it or he'll make sure the defender doesn't come down with it."

I just think this is a little bit of a "contract" that Carr and AJ have going on. I honestly think he and AJ are actually on the same page and it's designed to be thrown like that.

Think about: You're a tiny DB running downfield with AJ, a monster WR...and you have to stop running, turn around in a flash to locate the ball, AND out-muscle AJ for it when the ball comes into your reach.

I'd be crapping my pants if I was a DB and had to do that against AJ. It's psychological warfare, if you ask me.

That pass is most likely going to be one of four things: 1. An incomplete pass, 2. A catch, 3. A pass interference call, or 4. An interception. I'll take those odds if AJ is manned up on the play.

Scooter
10-01-2006, 06:07 PM
i agree GP. look at carr's interceptions. almost all of them come off of tipped passes at the LOS, and on short routes where he tries to force the ball. carr & johnson arent getting beat on the deep stuff, and i think that the rain maker to our big man is a big reason why.

Number19
10-01-2006, 06:07 PM
Carr was under constant pressure today - and was sacked 5 times!

That one pass to AJ should not be ruled an interception, but rather a completion with a strip/fumble.

blockhead83
10-01-2006, 06:10 PM
I used to get pee-'od about this, too--The lobbed balls that come down with ice on them. I hated it, and I thought it was bad form by Carr.

He rifles the ball on the intermediate routes, but I think he and AJ have an agreement: "Carr throws the ball long and high, and AJ says he'll go get it or he'll make sure the defender doesn't come down with it."

I just think this is a little bit of a "contract" that Carr and AJ have going on. I honestly think he and AJ are actually on the same page and it's designed to be thrown like that.

Think about: You're a tiny DB running downfield with AJ, a monster WR...and you have to stop running, turn around in a flash to locate the ball, AND out-muscle AJ for it when the ball comes into your reach.

I'd be crapping my pants if I was a DB and had to do that against AJ. It's psychological warfare, if you ask me.

That pass is most likely going to be one of four things: 1. An incomplete pass, 2. A catch, 3. A pass interference call, or 4. An interception. I'll take those odds if AJ is manned up on the play.

I think this is what's happening. And to second what another poster said, alot of these deep passes are coming in situations where Carr is saying, "Oh crap, looks like I'm about to get levelled. Andre's in single coverage downfield, I might as well just huck it up in that direction." Carr's deep ball hasn't looked great, but I think these jump balls to AJ in single coverage are good decisions. The one he tried to Kevin Walter last week that was an INT obviously didn't turn out as well, but I have no problem with Carr throwing these to Johnson.

Otherwise, Carr looks great and we rode his shoulders to this win today. I want him to try and have a better feel for that pressure from behind that's causing 1-2 fumbles every game, but otherwise the guy's playing really well. Another thing is that he's standing in the pocket and waiting to the last second for his big passes, even taking some big shots in the process, but he's getting right back up and fighting through it. The guy's showed some real leadership today, IMO.

rmartin65
10-01-2006, 06:14 PM
I used to get pee-'od about this, too--The lobbed balls that come down with ice on them. I hated it, and I thought it was bad form by Carr.

He rifles the ball on the intermediate routes, but I think he and AJ have an agreement: "Carr throws the ball long and high, and AJ says he'll go get it or he'll make sure the defender doesn't come down with it."

I just think this is a little bit of a "contract" that Carr and AJ have going on. I honestly think he and AJ are actually on the same page and it's designed to be thrown like that.

Think about: You're a tiny DB running downfield with AJ, a monster WR...and you have to stop running, turn around in a flash to locate the ball, AND out-muscle AJ for it when the ball comes into your reach.

I'd be crapping my pants if I was a DB and had to do that against AJ. It's psychological warfare, if you ask me.

That pass is most likely going to be one of four things: 1. An incomplete pass, 2. A catch, 3. A pass interference call, or 4. An interception. I'll take those odds if AJ is manned up on the play.
Thats an interesting way of looking at it. I think there might be a little of that. Good post.

Ryan
10-01-2006, 06:14 PM
Carr had a heck of a game. Congrats to Carr.

he helped my real life team and my fantasy team!

Marcus
10-01-2006, 06:24 PM
This figures.

32 posts in this thread, and not one . . . NOT ONE FRICKEN POST that has given any credit whatosever to the improved pass protection of O-Line.:brickwall

Brilliant!

Number19
10-01-2006, 06:32 PM
This figures.

32 posts in this thread, and not one . . . NOT ONE FRICKEN POST that has given any credit whatosever to the improved pass protection of O-Line.:brickwall

Brilliant!Carr was sacked five times and was hit I don't know how many more times. Not much improvement here. The Oline was barely adequate for a close win.

chuckm
10-01-2006, 06:40 PM
This isn't tennis ....

This is a team win just like the previous 3 weeks were team losses ...

chuckm
10-01-2006, 06:45 PM
In all fairness he struggled with his deep ball. It doesn't look very good this year....he is throwing the ball up like punts too often. Many of those passes are going to get picked off if he keeps doing that.

huh? You mean the one he threw while being hit (AJ made an awesome play)? He did have one in the second half that was poorly thrown but does that mean he's struggling with his deep ball? He hit AJ 2 weeks ago in stride on a long sideline route .... sheesh he rarely has time to throw a deep ball ...

Carr's glass half empty fans line up behind Vinny

Second Honeymoon
10-01-2006, 06:46 PM
This isn't Carr's win, the defense won this game.

The offense played like it has since 2004, 17 points, about 200 yards passing, and 90 yards rushing.

The offense didn't run the 2 minute drill with 1:50 left in the first half on it's own 20. And, the offense only got 1 first down with an 8 point lead and gave the ball back to Miami with around 4 minutes left.

The good news, the offense scored 14 points in the 4th quarter.

But, Carr's stats are the same he always gets, which is good but not great.

Defense played a lot better, and a victory worked out for us as a result.

Against a quality opponent, the Texans probably would have had their jocks handed to them again.

Good win though, and hopefully this is a start. We'll see, they play the Cowboys next.

Quoted For Truth. The Texans needed this win and got it. It wasn't Carr's win or any one player's win. It was a team win. If you could point to anything that won today, it was the defense for sure. You should have heard our endzone when Mario finally broke his cherry and got a sack. The place went bananas. Then he got in on a shared sack, next play. Then there was the 4th and 3 that Miami converted, but at least we won :)

As for Carr himself, he continues to look good and I actually like the jump ball to Andre play. Andre is either going to catch it or play defensive back. Anyone notice that Carr is dropping back slower and steadier than the past. I know Kubes has been drilling that into him, and its showing both in the dropback and the improved reads. Carr has continued to look better each game and showed the killer instinct (FINALLY) when he put in the 2nd touchdown to go up by 11 in the 4th quarter. First time I have seen Carr take the team on his shoulders and get it done.

Did anyone else notice we converted like a bunch of 3rd and Longs today. That has been Carr's biggest fault aside from the fumbles. Well if he can continue to progress and get rid of the fumbilitis, we can silence all the NFL Draft talk about QB prospects and go to our glaring weakness in next year's draft..replacing Dunta..we need secondary help like yesterday...SOS send DBs SOS

Good day to be a Texan Fan,
Doug From The Woodlands

chuckm
10-01-2006, 06:48 PM
Quoted For Truth. The Texans needed this win and got it. It wasn't Carr's win or any one player's win. It was a team win. If you could point to anything that won today, it was the defense for sure. You should have heard our endzone when Mario finally broke his cherry and got a sack. The place went bananas. Then he got in on a shared sack, next play. Then there was the 4th and 3 that Miami converted, but at least we won :)

As for Carr himself, he continues to look good and I actually like the jump ball to Andre play. Andre is either going to catch it or play defensive back. Anyone notice that Carr is dropping back slower and steadier than the past. I know Kubes has been drilling that into him, and its showing both in the dropback and the improved reads. Carr has continued to look better each game and showed the killer instinct (FINALLY) when he put in the 2nd touchdown to go up by 11 in the 4th quarter. First time I have seen Carr take the team on his shoulders and get it done.

Did anyone else notice we converted like a bunch of 3rd and Longs today. That has been Carr's biggest fault aside from the fumbles. Well if he can continue to progress and get rid of the fumbilitis, we can silence all the NFL Draft talk about QB prospects and go to our glaring weakness in next year's draft....SECONDARY HELP!!

Good day to be a Texan Fan,
Doug From The Woodlands



OMG .... what's next? .... dogs and cats living together .... props to you

You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Second Honeymoon again

Marcus
10-01-2006, 06:49 PM
Carr was sacked five times and was hit I don't know how many more times. Not much improvement here. The Oline was barely adequate for a close win.
Well, I'm going to take the high road and say I just disagree with you. The night and day difference between Carr today and Carr a year ago . . . to chock that up to only Kubiak tutoring him is simplistic. You still need to have some confidence that you aren't going to get creamed everytime you drop back and throw the ball.

I don't care if Carr got sacked 10 times today. He still had time to throw on at least 22 of his 29 attempts, and to not give the OL a little credit for that is stupid IMO.

Second Honeymoon
10-01-2006, 06:51 PM
huh? You mean the one he threw while being hit (AJ made an awesome play)? He did have one in the second half that was poorly thrown but does that mean he's struggling with his deep ball? He hit AJ 2 weeks ago in stride on a long sideline route .... sheesh he rarely has time to throw a deep ball ...

Carr's glass half empty fans line up behind Vinny

If Andre is under single coverage, I like the play. It's low risk and high reward. That one play that Carr threw deep in the face of the incoming rush, was one of Carr's best plays in the NFL to date. If Carr can keep this up and the Texans get 5-6 wins, Carr could get his first Pro Bowl invite...probably as an alternate, but still a huge step up in his 1st year under Kubes.

Doug From The Woodlands

Runner
10-01-2006, 06:52 PM
This figures.

32 posts in this thread, and not one . . . NOT ONE FRICKEN POST that has given any credit whatosever to the improved pass protection of O-Line.:brickwall

Brilliant!

I focused on the play of Salaam and Bedell - so I didn't see any improvement. They aren't very good. There was almost constant pressure or hits on Carr from that side.

I guess Weigert did better today in pass protection. The middle of the line looked about the same as always to me.

The running backs had 67 yards in 28 carries for a 2.4 yard average according to the ESPN box score. I don't see any improvement in run blocking either.

Runner
10-01-2006, 07:00 PM
alot of these deep passes are coming in situations where Carr is saying, "Oh crap, looks like I'm about to get levelled. Andre's in single coverage downfield, I might as well just huck it up in that direction." Carr's deep ball hasn't looked great, but I think these jump balls to AJ in single coverage are good decisions.

I guarantee you the offensive lineman like to see this too. They like to see Dre get a chance to make a play, and they truly appreciate Carr risking his TD/interception ratio rather than take another sack.

As long as catches/incompletions are a lot more common than interceptions in this situation, I'd like it to continue. I've posted in the past that the previous coaches forbid Carr to take these chances. It was just to risky for them.

Second Honeymoon
10-01-2006, 07:04 PM
OMG .... what's next? .... dogs and cats living together .... props to you

You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Second Honeymoon again

Carr has been throwing a good football all year and aside from the fumbles, has been doing a pretty good job. Like it or not (and I like it) his stock is shooting through the roof under Kubiak. He even showed some leadership today by getting that 2nd touchdown. In the past, he would have settled for a field goal or ball control. It was a good thing.

The huge ovation for Mario on his 1st sack could have been misinterpreted for a Bronx Cheer but I think it was more everyone saying 'Mario, this is how much love we can give you. Now go out there and earn that love'...and he did. It was the 3rd best feeling i have had other than the Cowboys and Jacksonville (Carr's 4th down TD dive) wins.

Carebear-ing,
Doug From The Woodlands

Vinny
10-01-2006, 07:08 PM
In all fairness he struggled with his deep ball. It doesn't look very good this year....he is throwing the ball up like punts too often. Many of those passes are going to get picked off if he keeps doing that.

huh? You mean the one he threw while being hit (AJ made an awesome play)? He did have one in the second half that was poorly thrown but does that mean he's struggling with his deep ball? He hit AJ 2 weeks ago in stride on a long sideline route .... sheesh he rarely has time to throw a deep ball ...

Carr's glass half empty fans line up behind VinnyI've said nice things (http://forums.houstontexans.com/showpost.php?p=458158&postcount=8) about his game today...I just didn't say the same thing in every post. He made some great throws but his deep ball looks funky right now for some reason. It seems like he is pushing it.

chuckm
10-01-2006, 07:11 PM
He made some great throws but his deep ball looks funky right now for some reason. It seems like he is pushing it.


with this, I agree .... seems like he's short-arming

Scooter
10-01-2006, 07:16 PM
Well, I'm going to take the high road and say I just disagree with you. The night and day difference between Carr today and Carr a year ago . . . to chock that up to only Kubiak tutoring him is simplistic. You still need to have some confidence that you aren't going to get creamed everytime you drop back and throw the ball.

I don't care if Carr got sacked 10 times today. He still had time to throw on at least 22 of his 29 attempts, and to not give the OL a little credit for that is stupid IMO.

i think it is almost entirely coaching, because carr IS getting creamed every time he drops back. even on the short stuff, carr's getting groped. the line today looked as bad, if not worse than it ever has IMO. HOWEVER, the pass protection that we're getting from the backs has picked up quite a bit. gado is stoning defenders and dayne's improving each week (not a big fan of cook), so carr isnt as worried about the linebacker coming in uncontested. the difference that kubiak is giving carr is much quicker decisions and he's got carr to the point where he's making the throw instead of folding as the 300lb guys fall on top of him.

Goldeagle
10-01-2006, 07:20 PM
Great TEAM win, Carr played well and a few of us knew it, others wont EVER give him credit

Texan1
10-01-2006, 07:29 PM
I'm simply amazed how people are saying David Carr had a great game when he simply did what he has done all year. Stat's the same, difference......a win. That being said, I congradulate David. Now, all the hater's, push for Sage to start next week. And as much as I love V. Young, I believe he looked alittle overpowered today.......

O.G.,

You are wrong - he played his best game today. No fumbles today (unlike last few weeks), No INT's (the 1 in the stat book today is really Andre's), and played all around headsy. I think the game would not have been so close had Kube not been so conservative on the last drive (run on 3rd&8). Also, if the Texans can improve the protection - watch out. Now we just need another RB other than Dayne.

Second Honeymoon
10-01-2006, 07:33 PM
O.G.,

You are wrong - he played his best game today. No fumbles today (unlike last few weeks), No INT's (the 1 in the stat book today is really Andre's), and played all around headsy. I think the game would not have been so close had Kube not been so conservative on the last drive (run on 3rd&8). Also, if the Texans can improve the protection - watch out. Now we just need another RB other than Dayne.

Actually, you are wrong. Carr did fumble today.

Doug FTW

Texan1
10-01-2006, 07:34 PM
I've said nice things (http://forums.houstontexans.com/showpost.php?p=458158&postcount=8) He made some great throws but his deep ball looks funky right now for some reason. It seems like he is pushing it.

Looks to me he's doing it on purpose - when Miami blitzed he wanted to get a jump ball to Andre who was getting man'd deep. It worked every time expecpt the last drive and it was b/c Andre lost the ball - otherwise that would have been a big gain also. I'm sure those man coverage jump balls where in the game plan by Kube.

Goldeagle
10-01-2006, 07:36 PM
I think on that one pass to AJ, he could not step forward because he got drilled as he released the ball.

Second Honeymoon
10-01-2006, 07:40 PM
I think on that one pass to AJ, he could not step forward because he got drilled as he released the ball.

Yup, it was a great throw in the face of adversity. One of my fave Carr plays to date.

Texan1
10-01-2006, 07:41 PM
Actually, you are wrong. Carr did fumble today.

Doug FTW

Ok, we could debate whther that was his fault or not (unlike the last few weeks with the dropped snaps)... still think he had his best game of the season.

Dime
10-01-2006, 07:44 PM
Hahaha. You'd be surprised how many people will still find fault in Carr. Weird

David is awesome. I have been saying it and always will.


I have always bashed Carr the last few years and for good reason.. This year he has shown significant improvement. He is not awesome, but he is doing much better. MUCH more poise, and a good deal of accuracy. There are times he still needs work on things, but I am quite happy how he has progressed this year compared to last.. All I ask for is improvement, and he has shown it.. so I am happy.

mike moffat
10-01-2006, 07:54 PM
Like I've posted before, Carr is in a no-win situation with some fans. Those fans are the one's who have to try to come up with anything to say to try and prove a point and hate to give credit where credit is due. Carr is going to lead this team and I'm his biggest supporter. Great game DC!!

Out here on the left coast, all I got to see was the T.D.. When Carr threw the ball into the stands, it showed alot of FIRE and pent up frustrations. I hope this is the turning point to our season. I am also a David Carr fan.:yahoo:

Second Honeymoon
10-01-2006, 07:57 PM
Ok, we could debate whther that was his fault or not (unlike the last few weeks with the dropped snaps)... still think he had his best game of the season.

What is there to debate? Carr got the ball stripped and fumbled.

That being said, the interception was not his fault as AJ got the ball stripped before he could make a 'football move'.

Carr is having a QB renaissance of sorts this year and its a great thing to behold. However, he is having trouble with fumblelitis this year and hopefully he can correct that soon. Kubes is doing wonders for him and putting him in the right spots as well. Kubes knows Carr's weaknesses and is avoiding them while accenting his developing strengths. If I saw Kubiak at a bar right now, I would buy him a drink and thank him.

Doug From The Woodlands

bigcarlos
10-01-2006, 08:02 PM
In all fairness he struggled with his deep ball. It doesn't look very good this year....he is throwing the ball up like punts too often. Many of those passes are going to get picked off if he keeps doing that.

Very true

Mr teX
10-01-2006, 08:03 PM
Well, I'm going to take the high road and say I just disagree with you. The night and day difference between Carr today and Carr a year ago . . . to chock that up to only Kubiak tutoring him is simplistic. You still need to have some confidence that you aren't going to get creamed everytime you drop back and throw the ball.

I don't care if Carr got sacked 10 times today. He still had time to throw on at least 22 of his 29 attempts, and to not give the OL a little credit for that is stupid IMO.

It's actually a combo of both. The line is playing better, but they still struggle running, so that says that there is more work that needs to be done. Now that DC has more weapons & the improved pass protection & an offensive minded coach, things are starting to open up.

MrMeToo
10-01-2006, 08:06 PM
In all fairness he struggled with his deep ball. It doesn't look very good this year....he is throwing the ball up like punts too often. Many of those passes are going to get picked off if he keeps doing that.

Thankfully Andre has stepped up and grabbed them.How many deep passes has AJ caught from Carr this year?At least 2 or 3.

mexican_texan
10-01-2006, 08:08 PM
I like Carr's toughness and he played well and whatnot...but his throwing motion disturbs me.

Mr teX
10-01-2006, 08:09 PM
What is there to debate? Carr got the ball stripped and fumbled.

That being said, the interception was not his fault as AJ got the ball stripped before he could make a 'football move'.

Carr is having a QB renaissance of sorts this year and its a great thing to behold. However, he is having trouble with fumblelitis this year and hopefully he can correct that soon. Kubes is doing wonders for him and putting him in the right spots as well. Kubes knows Carr's weaknesses and is avoiding them while accenting his developing strengths. If I saw Kubiak at a bar right now, I would buy him a drink and thank him.

Doug From The Woodlands

What are you talking about? half of his fumbles, Kubes himself exonerated Carr after going back & watching the tape (Center snapping the ball on the wrong count etc., Flanagan stepping on his feet). The other half, happen to every QB in the league ( Jason Taylor hitting his arm, etc.). There is no question he has to get better taking care of the ball but the dude has been solid. I think he is back to his 2004 form.

Kaiser Toro
10-01-2006, 08:12 PM
If Carr gets this win, then he gets all of the past losses. The team played better and they played better when they needed to at times. Carr was simply a spoke in the wheel and he performed his job to expectations.

The Texans won.

Mr teX
10-01-2006, 08:13 PM
I've said nice things (http://forums.houstontexans.com/showpost.php?p=458158&postcount=8) about his game today...I just didn't say the same thing in every post. He made some great throws but his deep ball looks funky right now for some reason. It seems like he is pushing it.

It may seem like he's pushing it probably b/c he threw them so rarely with the previous regime.

TexansLucky13
10-01-2006, 08:13 PM
If Carr gets this win, then he gets all of the past losses. The team played better and they played better when they needed to at times. Carr was simply a spoke in the wheel and he performed his job to expectations.

The Texans won.

Are you joking? Half of the people on this board would be more than willing to blame Carr for every single loss in this teams franchise history.

Kaiser Toro
10-01-2006, 08:14 PM
Are you joking? Half of the people on this board would be more than willing to blame Carr for every single loss in this teams franchise history.

This is me. This is framing. This is me. This is framing.

Texan Asylum
10-01-2006, 08:22 PM
Props to Carr. Awesome win with an awesome team!
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/sp/getty/83/full.getty-71465305rm003_miami_dolphin_4_41_45_pm.jpg

mexican_texan
10-01-2006, 08:25 PM
Props to Carr. Awesome win with an awesome team!
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/sp/getty/83/full.getty-71465305rm003_miami_dolphin_4_41_45_pm.jpg
Doesn't he look slimmer?

Goldeagle
10-01-2006, 08:27 PM
I dont mind him throwing the ball up because AJ can go up and get it. AJ ticks me off when he drops the 5 yard slant play.

Kaiser Toro
10-01-2006, 08:28 PM
Doesn't he look slimmer?

Because that is a photo. TV puts on 15 lbs. ;)

Second Honeymoon
10-01-2006, 08:34 PM
LOL@your new signature Kaiser Toro.

The Texans are 1-0 when Mario Williams gets a sack. Hilarious and timely.

doug ftw

TexanExile
10-01-2006, 08:42 PM
Dunno, but for some reason seeing a frequently-fumbling QB wagging the ball out there before he gets into the end zone made me tense. :whew

I thought the guy had a solid game (no fumbled snaps probably helps the offense more than we know!), but I still get frustrated at some of the weird short passes on third down. Maybe everything else is covered, but yet again this week I saw a failed 3rd-down conversion following a short, well-covered dump pass that was nowhere close to the first down marker. And the molasses-like pre-snap pace when time is short is puzzling, although I'm sure he's being coached to trade playing smarter for playing faster. He definitely makes fewer boneheaded decisions this year.

But let's not dwell on the negatives today. Solid game by Carr, with room for improvement. There is absolutely no denying that the 2006 David Carr is a better QB than the 2005 model. It's nice to see the progress. And this may just mean 2 weeks off from the annoying "start Sage" threads. (Please?)

:logo:

Texans_Chick
10-01-2006, 08:49 PM
Dunno, but for some reason seeing a frequently-fumbling QB wagging the ball out there before he gets into the end zone made me tense. :whew




Me too.

Signed,
Jabar Gaffney

mexican_texan
10-01-2006, 08:51 PM
Because that is a photo. TV puts on 15 lbs. ;)
There must be 15 cameras on Jason Babin....

BradK10
10-01-2006, 08:54 PM
In all fairness he struggled with his deep ball. It doesn't look very good this year....he is throwing the ball up like punts too often. Many of those passes are going to get picked off if he keeps doing that.

Vinny, not to point a finger just at you, but in years past people would call for David to just "throw it up" for AJ and let his athletic ability take over. Now, he does that, AJ overpowers guys, and now he's "struggling with the deep ball?"

I'm in the field of "I'll take my chances with AJ one on one" on deep balls. We saw why today.

Wolf
10-01-2006, 08:56 PM
Was this considered "Garbage time" too?

just curious

Kaiser Toro
10-01-2006, 08:59 PM
There must be 15 cameras on Jason Babin....

I could see a HD program come out called "the Tasmanian Babin: Anatomy of a Sack." The fifteen HD cameras filming in a 360 degree portrait supposedly can capture Babin getting his spin on while the offensive lineman does a squat thrust and recovers easily. :)

mexican_texan
10-01-2006, 09:00 PM
Was this considered "Garbage time" too?

just curious
Yes, all four quarters.

TexansLucky13
10-01-2006, 09:00 PM
Was this considered "Garbage time" too?

just curious

:rofl: Still waiting for that accusation from the anti-Carr crowd. Haven't seen it... yet. Someone will try and say it. :club:

mexican_texan
10-01-2006, 09:01 PM
I could see a HD program come out called "the Tasmanian Babin: Anatomy of a Sack." The fifteen HD cameras filming in a 360 degree portrait supposedly can capture Babin getting his spin on while the offensive lineman does a squat thrust and recovers easily. :)
Was that like the March of the Penguins? Must've used up a lot of film.

mexican_texan
10-01-2006, 09:01 PM
:rofl: Still waiting for that accusation from the anti-Carr crowd. Haven't seen it... yet. Someone will try and say it. :club:
Wait no more...

Runner
10-01-2006, 09:04 PM
in years past people would call for David to just "throw it up" for AJ and let his athletic ability take over.

Yes we have.

Sincerely,
The Texans O-Line

Kaiser Toro
10-01-2006, 09:16 PM
Yes we have.

Sincerely,
The Texans O-Line


I always thought that Runner was just a pseudonym. ;)

zeplin
10-01-2006, 09:33 PM
speaking as one of the most vocal carr critics, i reiterate what i've always said. I don't give a damn how it happens, i just want to WIN. we WON. what kind of fan can complain today?


I agree. Carr played a good game today. Defense was better. Overall I saw a big improvement from last weekend. Except our last drive. First downs are more important than going down field.We needed to stay focused on Killing the clock!!!.
Congrats to Mario!!!:killerbs:

South Texan
10-01-2006, 09:34 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics

Yeah... that Carr guy is a loser... start Sage next week!!

And Ryans and Johnson need to go to the practice squad for a year or two.

zeplin
10-01-2006, 09:41 PM
If Carr gets this win, then he gets all of the past losses. The team played better and they played better when they needed to at times. Carr was simply a spoke in the wheel and he performed his job to expectations.

The Texans won.

AH!:killerbs: The Burning Bush has Spoken!
Preach baby Preach!

Runner
10-01-2006, 09:47 PM
I always thought that Runner was just a pseudonym. ;)

I prefer to think of it as a nom de plume.

Hulk75
10-01-2006, 09:48 PM
In all fairness he struggled with his deep ball. It doesn't look very good this year....he is throwing the ball up like punts too often. Many of those passes are going to get picked off if he keeps doing that.

Yea sure they are.:yawn: :yawn:

tampacoltfan
10-01-2006, 09:59 PM
Congrats Texan Fans. I been telling you for two years that Carr was OK, just needed some help. He was very good today and did you see the smile when he threw the first touchdown? He was having fun, first time he did not have to run for his life all game.
Good to see the progress on the team.
Hope it continues and you get to keep some Jag butt this year.
Enjoy the rest of the season.

spurstexanstros
10-01-2006, 10:03 PM
Hello, its what i have been saying. Give Carr some daylight he'll give you a win. His fumble was a great play by jason taylor and his int was even a better take away (fumble) by dolphins corner. AJ made it up by burning him for a td. Next up........ Them. the source of evil in the State of Texas. The Cow(no i didnt try to kill myself, the crack pipe is not mine, that was not me on the video with the whore etc...)boys. Awwwwww man way to go into a bye week.

TexanSam
10-01-2006, 10:09 PM
I thought Carr played very well. He wasn't Peyton Manning or Tom Brady out there, but he definately looked like a good QB. I thought he limited his mistakes and it's nice to not see happy feet for the 3rd game in a row. This was Carr's first full good game under Kubiak. The other three he played well in spurts. Today he had a good game from start to finish. He's just going to get better and better under Kubiak.

wwffan99tx
10-01-2006, 10:16 PM
I'm glad that some of the Carr haters are coming around a bit. He has been pretty efficient this year and the Texans losses are not because of him. Was really glad to see the joy and attitude on the bootleg TD run.

Number19
10-01-2006, 10:18 PM
Of course I'd like to see fewer fumbles by Carr, but I'm not worried about this 4 year + tendency. These are largely a result of the intense defensive pressure he has been subjected to because of the poor line protection he has had. As our offensive line improves, and he not only is sacked less, but also is pressured less, the fumbles will decline.

I also noticed today that many of the 2 and 3 yard passes were a direct result of the defensive pressure he was under and not having time to find his downfield receivers. Again, as our line improves, you will see Carr hitting more receivers downfield, particularly in the 10 to 15 yard range.

Look at Carr today, then imagine our passing game 2 or 3 years down the road after our lineplay begins to come together.

RTP2110
10-01-2006, 10:24 PM
So as of right now, Carr is on pace for 3400+ yards, 28 TDs, 8 INTs. Not a bad season if he can keep it up.

Mr teX
10-01-2006, 10:25 PM
Vinny, not to point a finger just at you, but in years past people would call for David to just "throw it up" for AJ and let his athletic ability take over. Now, he does that, AJ overpowers guys, and now he's "struggling with the deep ball?"
I'm in the field of "I'll take my chances with AJ one on one" on deep balls. We saw why today.

isn't weird how this question is posed every week, & yet nobody seems to want to step up & claim that they ever said this? I mean really, EVERY team in the NFL does this whether it is 20 yards out or 60. I'm in the camp with you my friend, Let your Beast WR go up & make a play on the ball!

HoustonFan
10-01-2006, 10:57 PM
Good game Carr. In the end, a win is a win. I don't care how ugly, close, etc as long as we get the win.

I think the strength of the offense is when the ball is in the air. That AJ & Moulds combo needs to be put use more often.

edo783
10-01-2006, 10:58 PM
He made some great throws but his deep ball looks funky right now for some reason. It seems like he is pushing it.

It definatly looks funky. Past about 30 yards he doesn't seem to have zip on the ball. It floats and wobbles. This is from a QB that is noted for having an extremily strong arm. Not sure what's up. Hand injury so he can't grasp the ball hard enough for a deep throw? Shoulder issue as he never seems to come over the top, but sort of has a dart throwing motion? Maybe the staff changed him to that motion and he can't toss it well long? Not sure what's up, but something doesn't look right. He is hitting all the short to intermediate stuff well though.

Marcus
10-01-2006, 10:58 PM
In all fairness he struggled with his deep ball. It doesn't look very good this year....he is throwing the ball up like punts too often. Many of those passes are going to get picked off if he keeps doing that.

Vinny, not to point a finger just at you, but in years past people would call for David to just "throw it up" for AJ and let his athletic ability take over. Now, he does that, AJ overpowers guys, and now he's "struggling with the deep ball?"

I'm in the field of "I'll take my chances with AJ one on one" on deep balls. We saw why today.

isn't weird how this question is posed every week, & yet nobody seems to want to step up & claim that they ever said this? I mean really, EVERY team in the NFL does this whether it is 20 yards out or 60. I'm in the camp with you my friend, Let your Beast WR go up & make a play on the ball!

:perfect10:

Houston_Fanatic
10-02-2006, 12:11 AM
Carr has improved tremendously this year under Kubiak. He still has some things to work on, but his poise and decisions are better.

infantrycak
10-02-2006, 12:22 AM
This wasn't Carr's win it was a team win--yeah, Captain Obvious to the clarification but this took an all around effort--solid passing game, good special teams (eliminated Welker just about--Brown was unusually long), good pass rush, decent to below average run D, below average pass coverage and still an unmentionable running game--combo--beat a bad team. Carr did fine.

TK_Gamer
10-02-2006, 03:58 AM
In all fairness he struggled with his deep ball. It doesn't look very good this year....he is throwing the ball up like punts too often. Many of those passes are going to get picked off if he keeps doing that.

yeah and you're saying this about the guy with one of the best TD to INT ratio in the league so far, good insight.

TEXANRED
10-02-2006, 08:21 AM
So as of right now, Carr is on pace for 3400+ yards, 28 TDs, 8 INTs. Not a bad season if he can keep it up.

If Carr is not careful he might make the pro-bowl.:shades:

thunderkyss
10-02-2006, 08:57 AM
every deep ball he's thrown has been with a hand on him, or a big hit as it leaves his hand. even last week's great play action on the first drive had carr getting grabbed from behind. given the circumstances, i'd say he's doing alright. i think he's being told to get some loft on the ball for the exact reason we saw earlier. andre johnson, even in double coverage, is likely to come down with it. if AJ doesnt, nobody does.

This is really getting sickening........... Carr played well. We got a win. So everybody is all, "Carr had a great game"

truth of the matter is he didn't. He's had his same avg game as he's always had.

He's got a long way to go, and I hope Kubiak isn't as easily satisfied as some of you guys.

Carr is (so far) playing his best season of football. No question about it.

Statistically he is having his best season.... realistically, he's protected the ball, and hit wide open recievers,

He looks like a real NFL QB out there.

TrentDilferish........

He isn't as good as his rating indicates, but to me, he looks like a middle of the pack honest to goodness NFL QB out there. And, we can win with that version of DC as long as he has weapons and time to throw.

We could win with any QB if we give him time & give him the weapons we have.

He needs to be a lot more consistent, especially with his deep passes, but does anyone really want to go back to the dump it off to the RB every play of last year,

I have no problem with the dinks & dunks. But if those Dinks & Dunks don't turn into big yards, he's got to realize he's got big plays behind the LBs.

or the Carr who is finding AJ and Moulds all over the field, incorporting his TE's and his backs, etc.

I have to go back to watch this game....... for our three previous games, Carr hasn't really been "finding" anyone other than the dumpoff as usual..... first read, find the dump off.....

he's done well on occasion, but we can't say that this aspect of Carr's game has come to fruition just yet.

This version of Carr gets a solid B from me. And he is doing all of this with no running game.

He's doing it because they are worried about our running game. His walk into the endzone...... Dayne hasn't failed us on a third & short yet...... His big play to open the Washington game?? Yeah, they were looking for Dayne.

Hopefully, David's done enough to back Dallas up a bit, and allow us to run the ball. If they dare David to beat them, with Newman & Henry, we might not do too well.

Kudos to the coaches, and kudos for Carr for taking the coaching. Just needs work on his deep ball, his pocket presence, and fumbling/snap exchanges.

He needs to work on his decision making most of all. Right now, his thinking is in Ball protection...... which is fine, hopefully that will become second nature, and he won't have to think about that so much...... he needs to think about game management, taking what the defense gives him, and setting them up for the big play. Football is only a physicall game on the surface.. Like Chess. Learning how the pieces move, & protecting your King is begginer, intemediate kind of stuff. Strategy... that's where the game is won.

phan1
10-02-2006, 09:03 AM
Yeah, Kubi-Carr really looks like they're really getting it rolling (awful punn I know). I was really down on Carr after the horrible preseason he had, but now he is looking great. It's great to see Kubiak and Carr's hard work pay off.

What really excites me is that we are finally seeing things from Carr that we haven't seen before. Stepping up into the blitz and making plays, throwing the ball downfield, converting 3rd and long, all that stuff. While it's a bit early to say his pocket presence is even decent, it's been improved drastically. And what about the knock on him not being able to read coverages eh? He's doing good so far, and he's putting those balls into some tight places too. And the great part is that I think he has a very high ceiling. He can get a LOT better.

And it's good to not see stupid crap from him as well (tripping over lineman, fumbled snaps ect.).

Texanfan4ever
10-02-2006, 09:13 AM
What is there to debate? Carr got the ball stripped and fumbled.

That being said, the interception was not his fault as AJ got the ball stripped before he could make a 'football move'.

Carr is having a QB renaissance of sorts this year and its a great thing to behold. However, he is having trouble with fumblelitis this year and hopefully he can correct that soon. Kubes is doing wonders for him and putting him in the right spots as well. Kubes knows Carr's weaknesses and is avoiding them while accenting his developing strengths. If I saw Kubiak at a bar right now, I would buy him a drink and thank him.

Doug From The Woodlands

Me too!!!! I am just an all around homer. I have always been a Carr homer, and now I believe Kubes is our hero. LOL

And Doug, you are so positive in your latest postings. I'm proud of you.:francis:

thunderkyss
10-02-2006, 09:16 AM
Otherwise, Carr looks great and we rode his shoulders to this win today.

17-15 Houston.

That is not riding the QBs shoulder, especially when the game was won on Defense.

Carr didn't do anything extra-ordinary yesterday.

Rightnow
10-02-2006, 09:19 AM
17-15 Houston.

That is not riding the QBs shoulder, especially when the game was won on Defense.

Carr didn't do anything extra-ordinary yesterday.

I think you should read John Lopez's column, today, in the Chronicle.

Carr gains level of trust (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/lopez/4228881.html)

geofb
10-02-2006, 09:23 AM
If Carr is not careful he might make the pro-bowl.:shades:

Unfortunately, even if David does make it to the Pro Bowl, the many Carr-haters on this board will probably find fault with his play in that game too.

real
10-02-2006, 09:23 AM
17-15 Houston.

That is not riding the QBs shoulder, especially when the game was won on Defense.

Carr didn't do anything extra-ordinary yesterday.

uhhh....last week you were all...."the offense needs to stay on the field longer so the defense can breathe"....and now that the offense does that "it was won by defense"....The defense had some good moments, but honestly they almost gave the game away...how many first downs did we run for yesterday??? How many did we pass for??? Carr played a very good game....Despite our non-existing running game....David carried the offense...period....If our passing game was our strongest point...Is the QB not part of that ???

thunderkyss
10-02-2006, 09:24 AM
Great TEAM win, Carr played well and a few of us knew it, others wont EVER give him credit

I think we all agree Carr played well. We just don't agree that Carr put the team on his shoulders & won the game.

His good play behind the line was met by equally good plays of our recievers..... & our defense got off the field when they were supposed to.

RonnieBrown only had 60 yards rushing, or something like that.

Texanfan4ever
10-02-2006, 09:26 AM
I am sooo excited for Carr! THis had to be his year, and if Kubes couldn't do it, then it probably wouldn't ever happen, but it is working. Not perfect yet, but it is working. Now if we can just hold our own with the Cowgirls......

thunderkyss
10-02-2006, 09:27 AM
I have always bashed Carr the last few years and for good reason.. This year he has shown significant improvement. He is not awesome, but he is doing much better. MUCH more poise, and a good deal of accuracy. There are times he still needs work on things, but I am quite happy how he has progressed this year compared to last.. All I ask for is improvement, and he has shown it.. so I am happy.

Again, the pass to Moulds, where the diving corner knocked it down, was behind Moulds, and should've been an Int..... he needs to lead Eric on that one, it would have been a first, and then some.

real
10-02-2006, 09:28 AM
RonnieBrown only had 60 yards rushing, or something like that.

He had 49 rushing...62 recieving...

thunderkyss
10-02-2006, 09:29 AM
What is there to debate? Carr got the ball stripped and fumbled.


Doug From The Woodlands

The really good QBs "feel" that sort of pressure....... most would be extra aware of Pressure coming from the left side, when we just put our 3rd LT of the season into the game.

Other QBs step up, Carr gets stripped.

thunderkyss
10-02-2006, 09:30 AM
Thankfully Andre has stepped up and grabbed them.How many deep passes has AJ caught from Carr this year?At least 2 or 3.

I believe this is week 4

real
10-02-2006, 09:33 AM
I think we all agree Carr played well. We just don't agree that Carr put the team on his shoulders & won the game.

His good play behind the line was met by equally good plays of our recievers..... & our defense got off the field when they were supposed to.

RonnieBrown only had 60 yards rushing, or something like that.

Honestly I think any way you can spin it you will try...Carr had a very good game...There isn't any way around that...

Look at it Logically...Where is Miami strongest??? Defense...Pro-bowlers galore....

Did we run the ball successfuly??? No...

Did D.Carr carry the offense...uhhh...yeah....

Runner
10-02-2006, 09:33 AM
It's good to see some have moved from the transparent "damning with faint praise" to more straightforward animadversion.

real
10-02-2006, 09:34 AM
The really good QBs "feel" that sort of pressure....... most would be extra aware of Pressure coming from the left side, when we just put our 3rd LT of the season into the game.

Other QBs step up, Carr gets stripped.

C'mon you are being ree-dic-u-lous...So other QB's never fumble??? or get stripped???? LMAO....

It wasn't joe tedman from brown state...It was freakin Jason Taylor...If anything you can blame that on the playcalling for isolating Bedell or whoever it was on Jason Taylor....they should have chipped him or put a TE on his side to help him out...

Kaiser Toro
10-02-2006, 09:37 AM
In watching the game again. Carr had arguably his best game, in my eyes, as a Texan. Saying he won this game for the Texans is ridiculous, but he definitely contributed to a win which is something we have not said in a long time. As a Texan fan that gives me the warm and fuzzies.

Edit: the fake at the goal line was classic. Hopefully that will become one of many signature plays by Carr.

thunderkyss
10-02-2006, 09:38 AM
Vinny, not to point a finger just at you, but in years past people would call for David to just "throw it up" for AJ and let his athletic ability take over. Now, he does that, AJ overpowers guys, and now he's "struggling with the deep ball?"

I'm in the field of "I'll take my chances with AJ one on one" on deep balls. We saw why today.

It's the frequency that he does it.

Culpepper gets knocked, because he throw those jump balls to Moss.

Then, in the Washington game, those were just underthrown.......... can't even be considered jumpballs. In Yesterday's game at least AJ had position to make a play on the ball. Against Washington.... no.All he could do was play DB.

Did anyone notice how frustrated AJ was yesterday?? Several times, he'd slam the ball into the ground, and was just upset. He was having to reach back, jump, and get balls, or he was led into a DB..... with better placement, AJ could have had a really big day.

Hulk75
10-02-2006, 09:38 AM
I think we all agree Carr played well. We just don't agree that Carr put the team on his shoulders & won the game.

His good play behind the line was met by equally good plays of our recievers..... & our defense got off the field when they were supposed to.

RonnieBrown only had 60 yards rushing, or something like that.

Yea he did but you can argue about it for another 5 days if you like.

The play that showed me and started it was the deep out to Eric Moulds on the 2nd drive of the 2 half, that ball was great! Blitz came Oline and RBs picked it up, Carr had to put it in the right spot and it was, perfect ball, that started the 14 point snow ball.

That Defense was not in garbage time either............:rolleyes:

infantrycak
10-02-2006, 09:38 AM
He's doing it because they are worried about our running game.

You know in the Southern Hemisphere this "analysis" would be swirling the other direction down the toilet.

TEXANRED
10-02-2006, 09:47 AM
This is really getting sickening........... Carr played well. We got a win. So everybody is all, "Carr had a great game"

truth of the matter is he didn't. He's had his same avg game as he's always had.

He's got a long way to go, and I hope Kubiak isn't as easily satisfied as some of you guys..

:shocked
Statistically he is having his best season.... realistically, he's protected the ball, and hit wide open recievers,

TrentDilferish........ .
:shocked

We could win with any QB if we give him time & give him the weapons we have.

I have no problem with the dinks & dunks. But if those Dinks & Dunks don't turn into big yards, he's got to realize he's got big plays behind the LBs.



I have to go back to watch this game....... for our three previous games, Carr hasn't really been "finding" anyone other than the dumpoff as usual..... first read, find the dump off..... .

West Coast Offense....Joe Montana....Steve Young.....Five Super-Bowls....Anyone?

he's done well on occasion, but we can't say that this aspect of Carr's game has come to fruition just yet.
Huh?
He's doing it because they are worried about our running game. His walk into the endzone...... Dayne hasn't failed us on a third & short yet...... His big play to open the Washington game?? Yeah, they were looking for Dayne.

Hopefully, David's done enough to back Dallas up a bit, and allow us to run the ball. If they dare David to beat them, with Newman & Henry, we might not do too well..

Thats right, your a Cowboy fan and live in Dallas. Almost forgot.

He needs to work on his decision making most of all. Right now, his thinking is in Ball protection...... which is fine, hopefully that will become second nature, and he won't have to think about that so much...... he needs to think about game management, taking what the defense gives him, and setting them up for the big play. Football is only a physicall game on the surface.. Like Chess. Learning how the pieces move, & protecting your King is begginer, intemediate kind of stuff. Strategy... that's where the game is won.
:shocked


I remember him getting blasted when people heard him say he would rather get sacked then throw a pick. Two straight and looking like a third straight year Carr has thrown more TD's then picks.

I would have to say he is already conscience about protecting the ball.

thunderkyss
10-02-2006, 09:49 AM
Unfortunately, even if David does make it to the Pro Bowl, the many Carr-haters on this board will probably find fault with his play in that game too.

Cullpepper's made it to the ProBowl, still he has critics....... why should it be different for David??

Bamaborn-Texasbred
10-02-2006, 09:53 AM
There was a third and super long the Texans had at about their own 39 yard line or so and Kubiak called a run up the middle. This was obviously conceding the first down and setting up the punt team to kick the Dolphins deep, and some bonehead a few rows behind me booed and said, "Carr you suck. You should have thrown the ball."

This is just one of many dumb things I have heard people say about this football team. That is the kind of uninformed football fan that just makes me shake my head in frustration. He actually believes Carr can audible to pass in that situation! Kubiak would kill him if he did that.

All of that being said, if you are still on the start Sage Rosenfels or we should have drafted vince opinion, you aren't allowing your eyes to see all of the strides David has made the last few weeks.

thunderkyss
10-02-2006, 09:54 AM
uhhh....last week you were all...."the offense needs to stay on the field longer so the defense can breathe"....and now that the offense does that "it was won by defense"....The defense had some good moments, but honestly they almost gave the game away...how many first downs did we run for yesterday??? How many did we pass for??? Carr played a very good game....Despite our non-existing running game....David carried the offense...period....If our passing game was our strongest point...Is the QB not part of that ???

They were doing what they were supposed to do. Our Defense forced How many punts?? You don't see me going crazy about how well our defense did. Sacking Cullpepper 5 times is par for the course.

Did David buy anytime for our recievers to get open?? did he throw the ball into any small windows??

David had a good game, but it came down to a defensive play to seal the win. If it were a game winning drive, I'd lean more towards an offensive win. But with this low score, & the defensive effort, I'm leaning towards a defensive win. I believe it was a team win, with a strong lean towards defense.

Last week, our offense let us down just as much as our defense. Check the stats of the washington/jacksonville game. That was failure by the defense, with the offense trying their darndest to win the game inspite of their D.

infantrycak
10-02-2006, 09:55 AM
This was obviously conceding the first down and setting up the punt team to kick the Dolphins deep, and some bonehead a few rows behind me booed and said, "Carr you suck. You should have thrown the ball."

We either sit near each other or there was another dee, dee, dee saying the same thing near me. He was competing for dumbest heckler of the year award with the guy down the row from me yelling at a white guy on the sideline as "hey stupid GM that didn't take Bush"--and no the white guy bore no resemblence to Casserly.

kingh99
10-02-2006, 09:58 AM
:
I remember him getting blasted when people heard him say he would rather get sacked then throw a pick. Two straight and looking like a third straight year Carr has thrown more TD's then picks.

I would have to say he is already conscience about protecting the ball.

He's been coached extensively on this I believe. He must believe an NFL QB never gets benched for getting sacked whereas he'll get benched faster than anything throwing picks.

I have heard for 4 years now about Carr's cannon arm. Why just last night Tim Melton was heard to comment about how Carr was able to make a throw across his body out in the flat and how much arm strength that throw takes. No doubt he got it there in time. Now here's my question. Is arm strength measured in different ways? Carr has good lateral strength to zip the pass on the out routes. But he's usually throwing out of his shoes and behind the wide receiver on the fly or post pattern. Yesterday A.Johnson adjusted his route and caught the underthrown ball but I seem to recall more than one being thrown like this. At least one in the Redskins game was underthrown the same way. Yeah he was hit when he released but watch the other post throws. He's short on them. Carson Palmer wouldn't be short on those passes. Just saying.

Carr played another careful, managed game yesterday. Man is he the anti-Bret Farve or what? For every stupid chance Farve takes, Carr pulls the ball in and takes the sack. I wish we could find a happy balance. Carr is just so darn conservative. I know that is a winner in the conservative NFL but still.

thunderkyss
10-02-2006, 09:59 AM
Honestly I think any way you can spin it you will try...Carr had a very good game...There isn't any way around that...

Look at it Logically...Where is Miami strongest??? Defense...Pro-bowlers galore....

Did we run the ball successfuly??? No...

Did D.Carr carry the offense...uhhh...yeah....

Carr did what he does against a good defense........ he wasn't great, he wasn't horrible.

When Carr does have a great game against a great D, then we can have a Carr coming out party. Doing it now, is premature.

infantrycak
10-02-2006, 09:59 AM
did he throw the ball into any small windows??

Seriously--you don't watch the games do you?

but it came down to a defensive play to seal the win.

Duh--it came down to a defensive play to seal the win because the D gave up a late TD. Wow talk about misdirection.

TEXANRED
10-02-2006, 10:00 AM
They were doing what they were supposed to do. Our Defense forced How many punts?? You don't see me going crazy about how well our defense did. Sacking Cullpepper 5 times is par for the course.

Did David buy anytime for our recievers to get open?? did he throw the ball into any small windows??

David had a good game, but it came down to a defensive play to seal the win. If it were a game winning drive, I'd lean more towards an offensive win. But with this low score, & the defensive effort, I'm leaning towards a defensive win. I believe it was a team win, with a strong lean towards defense.

Last week, our offense let us down just as much as our defense. Check the stats of the washington/jacksonville game. That was failure by the defense, with the offense trying their darndest to win the game inspite of their D.
Well ya, after it was the D that let the Dolphins march down the field on them for a last minute score.

thunderkyss
10-02-2006, 10:00 AM
C'mon you are being ree-dic-u-lous...So other QB's never fumble??? or get stripped???? LMAO....

It wasn't joe tedman from brown state...It was freakin Jason Taylor...If anything you can blame that on the playcalling for isolating Bedell or whoever it was on Jason Taylor....they should have chipped him or put a TE on his side to help him out...

We blame the QB for that fumble regardless who it is. Saying that is not David's fault is the only thing I'm saying.

Someone said you can't blame that one on David, I'm saying we should, since we give it to every other Qb who fumbles in that situation.

Bamaborn-Texasbred
10-02-2006, 10:01 AM
We either sit near each other or there was another dee, dee, dee saying the same thing near me. He was competing for dumbest heckler of the year award with the guy down the row from me yelling at a white guy on the sideline as "hey stupid GM that didn't take Bush"--and no the white guy bore no resemblence to Casserly.


113?

thunderkyss
10-02-2006, 10:01 AM
In watching the game again. Carr had arguably his best game, in my eyes, as a Texan. Saying he won this game for the Texans is ridiculous, but he definitely contributed to a win which is something we have not said in a long time. As a Texan fan that gives me the warm and fuzzies.

Edit: the fake at the goal line was classic. Hopefully that will become one of many signature plays by Carr.

This is the most realistic view of the game (Carr's game) so far.

infantrycak
10-02-2006, 10:02 AM
HIs arm strength measured in different ways? Carr has good lateral strength to zip the pass on the out routes. But he's usually throwing out of his shoes and behind the wide receiver on the fly or post pattern. Yesterday A.Johnson adjusted his route and caught the underthrown ball but I seem to recall more than one being thrown like this. At least one in the Redskins game was underthrown the same way. Yeah he was hit when he released but watch the other post throws. He's short on them. Carson Palmer wouldn't be short on those passes. Just saying.

In past seasons Carr has frequently overthrown the deep ball and has not put enough air under it making it tough for the WR to adjust and easier for the DB to defend. It appears Kubiak has been working with Carr on putting more air under the ball this year.

infantrycak
10-02-2006, 10:03 AM
113?

103--must have been a different dee, dee, dee.

Bamaborn-Texasbred
10-02-2006, 10:06 AM
103--must have been a different dee, dee, dee.

Im sure there are hundreds of them scattered all over the stadium.

Runner
10-02-2006, 10:07 AM
Yesterday A.Johnson adjusted his route and caught the underthrown ball but I seem to recall more than one being thrown like this.

I'm pretty sure that is the play where Carr got drilled from a rush up the middle just after releasing the ball. He couldn't really step into the throw. I'm working on memory here - correct me if I'm wrong.

Underthrows to big physical receivers often work well anyway.

Kaiser Toro
10-02-2006, 10:12 AM
I'm pretty sure that is the play where Carr got drilled from a rush up the middle just after releasing the ball. He couldn't really step into the throw. I'm working on memory here - correct me if I'm wrong.

Underthrows to big physical receivers often work well anyway.

Any time Carr throws the ball down the field more than 20 yards an Angel in Heaven gets their wings. I could care less at this moment in time if it is underthrown or not. AJ gets paid a lot of money to go up and get those balls, just like we pay Carr plenty of money to throw somethting other than a pass under 5 yards.

Keep them coming - long passes, passes to the TE down the seam, roll-outs, play action, etc. Carr is showing the NFL that he can run and execute this playbook, which makes everyone on the offense harder to account for.

NJ Texan
10-02-2006, 10:12 AM
Carr did great IMO and the stats back me up.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/leaders/NFL/PRAT/2006/regular

Bamaborn-Texasbred
10-02-2006, 10:13 AM
I'm pretty sure that is the play where Carr got drilled from a rush up the middle just after releasing the ball. He couldn't really step into the throw. I'm working on memory here - correct me if I'm wrong.

Underthrows to big physical receivers often work well anyway.

There were a couple or so that looked like from my perspective at the stadium were purposely underthrown. There were some the pass rush caused, and there were some that were mistakes. I was in the northwest corner on that one deep ball that Andre took inside the ten on single coverage. I was looking at Carr's head over all of the linemen before he threw the ball. He saw just enough of Andre to know he was in single coverage. When Carr threw the ball I couldn't see him at all! He put it in a spot and trusted Andre to catch it or knock it down. These guys are getting better and better. I was really pumped after I left the game yesterday.

wags
10-02-2006, 10:16 AM
We could win with any QB if we give him time & give him the weapons we have.

Weapons? AJ, Moulds, and who? Our OL is still pathetic, our #3 receiver ain't that good, our TE's are average, and what street bum is starting at RB for us this week. Yep, we definitely have some WMD's on our team.

infantrycak
10-02-2006, 10:18 AM
Yep, we definitely have some WMD's on our team.

Man, don't say that or we will have airborne troops dropping into the stadium to bring democracy to the Texans.

Bamaborn-Texasbred
10-02-2006, 10:20 AM
Man, don't say that or we will have airborne troops dropping into the stadium to bring democracy to the Texans.

Ha ha ha ha!

That reminds me of the 610 morning show Russian propaganda bit before and after the Redskins game.

"Comrade Texans, the capitalists from Washington, D.C. are coming to Communist Reliant Stadium."

thunderkyss
10-02-2006, 10:22 AM
Well ya, after it was the D that let the Dolphins march down the field on them for a last minute score.

Yeah, the same defense that's held them to 3 field goals all day.

The offense scored 17 points.... they did what they were supposed to do.

The defense held them to 17 points & under..... they went beyond what they were supposed to do.

HOU-TEX
10-02-2006, 10:35 AM
Yeah, the same defense that's held them to 3 field goals all day.

The offense scored 17 points.... they did what they were supposed to do.

The defense held them to 17 points & under..... they went beyond what they were supposed to do.

Is there a specific guideline somewhere stating what they're supposed to do? How do you know they went beyond what they were supposed to do?

They did thier job most of the game. They still almost gave it away towards the end. It was a team effort! It was not pretty, but it still counts as a "W".:yahoo:

SESupergenius
10-02-2006, 10:43 AM
Carr had a fantastic game, I don't know what game everyone else is watching. The guy made on target throws and allowed his receivers to make catches, all this and our running game was poor. The pass protection slipped up a few times to kill some drives, but Gado and Dayne did a great job in picking up the blitzes. This gave Carr time to find his targets and take some chances. Note to the Haters, Carr is playing very well, you can come out now.

kenneth24
10-02-2006, 10:50 AM
Did anyone notice how frustrated AJ was yesterday?? Several times, he'd slam the ball into the ground, and was just upset. He was having to reach back, jump, and get balls, or he was led into a DB..... with better placement, AJ could have had a really big day.

He was pumped and frustrated AFTER getting the ball stripped from him. Silver lining? AJ has been good this year but an angry AJ is even better!



I have no problem with the dinks & dunks. But if those Dinks & Dunks don't turn into big yards, he's got to realize he's got big plays behind the LBs.

I have to go back to watch this game....... for our three previous games, Carr hasn't really been "finding" anyone other than the dumpoff as usual..... first read, find the dump off.....

he's done well on occasion, but we can't say that this aspect of Carr's game has come to fruition just yet.


I believe AJ is averaging 102.5 yards a game with a 13.7 yard per catch average and Moulds is averaging 12.8 yards per catch.

TheOgre
10-02-2006, 10:51 AM
Also, to anyone that tries to compare Carr's early 2004 stats to these, there is one huge difference. Those 2004 stats were against teams that finished in the bottom quarter of the league in pass defense. Carr's early "success" this year is against four teams with average to good defenses. He still has a lot of room for improvement, but he is doing all of this with a limited rushing game and poor pass-blocking (not Miami poor, but darn close).

TEXANRED
10-02-2006, 10:57 AM
Yeah, the same defense that's held them to 3 field goals all day.
The offense scored 17 points.... they did what they were supposed to do.

The defense held them to 17 points & under..... they went beyond what they were supposed to do.
Correction, three field goals and a touchdown.

I can't even begin to count how many fourth quarter loses we have suffered through the years. They finally got one. Yea.:yahoo: There is four years of fourth quarter collapses to make up for.

thunderkyss
10-02-2006, 11:14 AM
Is there a specific guideline somewhere stating what they're supposed to do? How do you know they went beyond what they were supposed to do?

They did thier job most of the game. They still almost gave it away towards the end. It was a team effort! It was not pretty, but it still counts as a "W".:yahoo:

I'm happy with the win. I believe it was a team win...... nobody was on anybody's shoulders.

When I look at a game, I'm thinking in terms of 21. If the offense can put 21 points on the D, they did their job. If the D can hold the offense to 21, they did their job. You go into overtime, and the other team scores(defense failed) or our O scores(Offense prevailed)...... it's a very simplistic view of the game.

On this board a few days(weeks) ago, said the actual number Coaches use is 17. I then heard Madden say the same in last weeks game.... so.. I'm now using 17.

Judging by my previous number of 21, you can tell I like high scoring games, and high powered offenses.

thunderkyss
10-02-2006, 11:15 AM
Correction, three field goals and a touchdown.

I can't even begin to count how many fourth quarter loses we have suffered through the years. They finally got one. Yea.:yahoo: There is four years of fourth quarter collapses to make up for.

the point I was arguing involved that last minute touchdown, so I was talking about up to that point.:whip:

beerlover
10-02-2006, 11:21 AM
here are the statiscal leaders from yesterday-

http://www.nfl.com/stats/leaders/live/week4

Passing Leaders
Name Team Comp Att Yds TDs Ints
Drew Brees NO 28 38 349 1 0
Mark Brunell WAS 18 30 329 3 1
Marc Bulger STL 26 42 328 3 0
Byron Leftwich JAC 21 35 289 3 1
Jon Kitna DET 29 43 280 2 2
Brad Johnson MIN 25 44 267 1 2
Daunte Culpepper MIA 23 39 249 1 0
Carson Palmer CIN 20 35 245 0 0
Rex Grossman CHI 17 31 232 2 0
David Carr HOU 22 29 230 1 1


Complete list of this week's passing leaders

Rushing Leaders
Name Team Att Yds TDs Fumb
LaMont Jordan OAK 20 128 1 0
Laurence Maroney NE 15 125 2 0
Julius Jones DAL 23 122 1 0
Clinton Portis WAS 27 112 1 0
Jerious Norwood ATL 6 106 1 0
DeShaun Foster CAR 16 105 1 0
Larry Johnson KC 30 101 2 0
Michael Vick ATL 11 101 0 0
Reuben Droughns CLE 25 100 0 1
Thomas Jones CHI 24 98 2 0


Complete list of this week's rushing leaders

Receiving Leaders
Name Team Recp Yds TDs Fumb
Roy Williams DET 9 139 0 0
Santana Moss WAS 4 138 3 0
Marques Colston NO 5 132 1 0
Bernard Berrian CHI 3 108 1 0
Torry Holt STL 6 102 1 0
Andre Johnson HOU 9 101 1 0
Isaac Bruce STL 7 100 1 0
T.J. Houshmandzadeh CIN 4 95 0 0
Reggie Williams JAC 5 93 2 0
Lee Evans BUF 7 90 0 0

note to self: the Texans #1 need to aquire in the offseason is RB http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/sports/gen/img/oct04/grid1028.jpg

thunderkyss
10-03-2006, 08:03 AM
Carr had a fantastic game, I don't know what game everyone else is watching. The guy made on target throws and allowed his receivers to make catches, all this and our running game was poor. The pass protection slipped up a few times to kill some drives, but Gado and Dayne did a great job in picking up the blitzes. This gave Carr time to find his targets and take some chances. Note to the Haters, Carr is playing very well, you can come out now.

There was one particular play where Zack Thomas comes busting through our OLine, like he was going to do something. SamGado puts his helmet square in Zack's numbers, and decleats the little fella.... it was pretty sweet.

@ Reliant, these are the kinda things you miss. Wich is why I TiVo the games (actually DVDr). But at the game, I'm usuallly focusing in on one thing for each play. Sometimes I'll be looking at the recievers..... were they manned up, did they beat the man?? Were they playing against a zone..... did they find a soft spot??

Or I'll watch the line.... did they portect David?? did they open running lanes??
Or I'll watch David..... did he get the snap?? where is he looking??

After the play, I'll look at the jumbotron, to reinforce what I thought I saw, or to see if I missed anything.

After watching the recorded game, I can say without hesitation, That David had a pretty good...... almost great game.

I still think either his accuracy, or his thinking is suspect..... Not all the underthrows were because of small pockets, and throwing behind the reciever, and throwing the ball late, are problems I saw, and were still there watching the recorded game.

But David did a great job finding his recievers, attacking the cover 2, picking apart Miami's zone coverage, and taking advantage of one on one situations.

AT least I thought he did a great job.... Kubiak went to more outroutes, and comeback patterns in the second half.... we won, so I guess it worked??


Our pass protection was really good, picking up the blitz...... very few (if any) got in untouched...... but we seemed overpowered at Center, & TE. I thought very highly of OwenDaniels coming into the game, but Miami's defensive ends were too strong for him. Chester & Mckinney are brutes..... not very smart, but adequately powered, and they wait for contact, even on running plays. Then they try to block the defender, instead of taking him out of the play all together, they need to watch the Washington game again, and see how they did it........... poor Demeco got pummelled against Washington.

Salaam is a big boy...... and does a good job at LT..... but he's slow moving around the QB, and has a bad feel for where the pocket is (or where the QB is). If he thought JasonTaylor was fast & strong, Demarcus Ware is going to make him work. MarcusSpears, JasonFerguson, ChrisCanty, and GreggEllis are going to be a handfull across the line.

Our defense played just as well as they have been playing. Dante was just not able to get the ball out in less than 2 seconds consistently. Even from the shotgun, which I think he took most of his snaps from. We got a lot more pressure from the middle than we usually do. Weaver made his big plays from the Tackle position. TJ's name wasn't mentioned a lot, but he was getting doubled as much as anyone. Payne was beating those doubles.

Underneath coverage was still suspect, but I think the guys got a whole lot faster. RonnieBrown had some good catches & YAC as well. If the Dolphins were to go there more often, I think they would have exposed the same thing every other team we've faced (to date) has exposed.

McCleon needs to get out of there. I'd like to see PBuch, but put Derrick Johnson in there if you have to.

We need to teach Sanders the basics of catching.... he'd have had 4 picks if he could just catch the ball.

Dunta is starting to look like another former first round corner who got traded from the team that drafted him. & right now, yes I'd rather see the other guy in the game.

Our safeties aren't the sharpest knives in the drawer. Too many times, you could see them looking at Cullpepper, and while he didn't stare down his recievers, he did telegraph his throws quite a bit. Especially on blitzes, where he did stare down the reciever. You see McCleon or Earl coming in to blitz, and Cullpepper is looking at the spot they just left from the second the ball is snapped.

Overall, I think we are showing great progress on both sides of the ball. Especially from the DTs, and David Carr, and that tipp by Mario was probably better than the sack.

Mr teX
10-03-2006, 10:29 AM
Carr played another careful, managed game yesterday. Man is he the anti-Bret Farve or what? For every stupid chance Farve takes, Carr pulls the ball in and takes the sack. I wish we could find a happy balance. Carr is just so darn conservative. I know that is a winner in the conservative NFL but still.


Quite Possibly the dumbest post i've read to date. If you throw Int's it is what is called a "turnover" :sarcasm: . If you take a sack, you live to fight another down if you have any left. The only time anyone is OK with an Int. (relatively speaking) is when it acts as a punt, i.e. long pass that everyone who is around the ball has a shot at. I cannot believe anyone would bash this dude b/c he doesn't throw ints enough! The above bolded is the only thing that should matter; ask brad johnson, Trent Dilfer & Neil Odonell. People get exciting football & winning football confused sometimes.

thunderkyss
10-03-2006, 10:38 AM
Carr played another careful, managed game yesterday. Man is he the anti-Bret Farve or what? For every stupid chance Farve takes, Carr pulls the ball in and takes the sack. I wish we could find a happy balance. Carr is just so darn conservative. I know that is a winner in the conservative NFL but still.


Quite Possibly the dumbest post i've read to date. If you throw Int's it is what is called a "turnover" :sarcasm: . If you take a sack, you live to fight another down if you have any left. The only time anyone is OK with an Int. (relatively speaking) is when it acts as a punt, i.e. long pass that everyone who is around the ball has a shot at. I cannot believe anyone would bash this dude b/c he doesn't throw ints enough! The above bolded is the only thing that should matter; ask brad johnson, Trent Dilfer & Neil Odonell. People get exciting football & winning football confused sometimes.

Yes & no. a lot of those "stupid" chances that Farve takes end up being completions....... completions for touchdowns.

I'm not saying David should be more like Bret, Bret's the luckiest man alive as far as I'm concerned..... but most of the big time QBs with more INTs than David also have more TDs thrown.. so you know six in one hand......

Mr teX
10-03-2006, 10:40 AM
He's been coached extensively on this I believe. He must believe an NFL QB never gets benched for getting sacked whereas he'll get benched faster than anything throwing picks.

I have heard for 4 years now about Carr's cannon arm. Why just last night Tim Melton was heard to comment about how Carr was able to make a throw across his body out in the flat and how much arm strength that throw takes. No doubt he got it there in time. Now here's my question. Is arm strength measured in different ways? Carr has good lateral strength to zip the pass on the out routes. But he's usually throwing out of his shoes and behind the wide receiver on the fly or post pattern. Yesterday A.Johnson adjusted his route and caught the underthrown ball but I seem to recall more than one being thrown like this. At least one in the Redskins game was underthrown the same way. Yeah he was hit when he released but watch the other post throws. He's short on them. Carson Palmer wouldn't be short on those passes. Just saying.

Carr played another careful, managed game yesterday. Man is he the anti-Bret Farve or what? For every stupid chance Farve takes, Carr pulls the ball in and takes the sack. I wish we could find a happy balance. Carr is just so darn conservative. I know that is a winner in the conservative NFL but still.

Another thing is, Most of those long passes are supossed to be thrown like that to simulate a "jump ball" if you will. The advantage is all AJ, whether he's 1 on 1, or if he has to adjust his route. Only when AJ or any wide out for that matter is behind the coverage completely is he supposed to lead him. You can see good examples of this in the philly & washington games. But you mean to tell me that you would lead AJ up the field with the safety coming over the top? Point is there's nothing wrong with DC's arm strength, I would venture to say that he's been coached to throw them up to AJ like that depending on the coverage/situation.

texan279
10-03-2006, 10:41 AM
How about we just credit this win to Mario Williams or whoever it was who tipped the pass on the two point conversion that could have tied the game...:fireball:

Mr teX
10-03-2006, 10:46 AM
Yes & no. a lot of those "stupid" chances that Farve takes end up being completions....... completions for touchdowns.

I'm not saying David should be more like Bret, Bret's the luckiest man alive as far as I'm concerned..... but most of the big time QBs with more INTs than David also have more TDs thrown.. so you know six in one hand......

Relatively speaking, yes well said.

TK_Gamer
10-03-2006, 11:00 AM
How about we just credit this win to Mario Williams or whoever it was who tipped the pass on the two point conversion that could have tied the game...:fireball:

in essence I would support giving credit to mario for the win, but ....
I think our biggest problem this year and every year seems to be the flood gate collapse of the defense, where we allow a big play and lose heart wich leads to a big lead at the half or in the third quarter, so I think I personally would credit the defensive playcalling and pressure to start the game that kept the floodgate from opening and gave us a chance to win. ofcourse mario also had alot to do with that pressure anyway so he still made himself look good :) Now we just need to keep this pressure up at the beginning of every game and try to set the tone early and we will give ourselves a chance to win ALOT of games in the future.

texan279
10-03-2006, 11:02 AM
in essence I would support giving credit to mario for the win, but ....
I think our biggest problem this year and every year seems to be the flood gate collapse of the defense, where we allow a big play and lose heart wich leads to a big lead at the half or in the third quarter, so I think I personally would credit the defensive playcalling and pressure to start the game that kept the floodgate from opening and gave us a chance to win. ofcourse mario also had alot to do with that pressure anyway so he still made himself look good :) Now we just need to keep this pressure up at the beginning of every game and try to set the tone early and we will give ourselves a chance to win ALOT of games in the future.

My post was semi sarcastic actually. I think the whole team deserves the win, not just one indivdual. There were several guys who stepped up and made plays throughout the game though.

real
10-03-2006, 11:03 AM
How about we just credit this win to Mario Williams or whoever it was who tipped the pass on the two point conversion that could have tied the game...:fireball:

Not to discredit Mario or the rest of the Texans defense....but in all honesty one of those recievers should have caught that ball....:shoot:

hollywood_texan
10-03-2006, 12:53 PM
This thread is still going?

Let me understand this:

1. Carr is not responsible for any losses, but gets credit for victories.
2. Carr does not run the 2 minute drill with 1:57 left in the first half on the Texans 20, Carr gets credit for the win.
3. Carr and the offense can get only one first down with about 5 minutes left in the game to preserve an 8 point lead, they give the ball back to the Dolphins with 3:30 left to play. Carr gets credit for the victory because the defends holds on a two-point conversion. Carr gets credit for the victory.
4. Carr and the offense can only score one fieldgoal in 3 quarters of play, Carr gets credit for the victory.
5. Carr gets the same stats has always, around 200 yards passing, 25 attempts and 20 completions. Same as always, offense scores 17 points. Carr gets credit for victory.

This game was won because the defense played a lot better.

Carr and the offense played the same as always, except that they actually scored points in the 4th quarter that meant something. The defense kept this game close the whole way through.

If I was Richard Smith, I would have went Buddy Ryan :wild: on Kubiak because the defense shows up and the offense plays the same old boring Capers way.

And you guys are telling me Carr deserves the game ball?

Mr teX
10-03-2006, 01:02 PM
This thread is still going?

Let me understand this:

1. Carr is not responsible for any losses, but gets credit for victories.
2. Carr does not run the 2 minute drill with 1:57 left in the first half on the Texans 20, Carr gets credit for the win.
3. Carr and the offense can get only one first down with about 5 minutes left in the game to preserve an 8 point lead, they give the ball back to the Dolphins with 3:30 left to play. Carr gets credit for the victory because the defends holds on a two-point conversion. Carr gets credit for the victory.
4. Carr and the offense can only score one fieldgoal in 3 quarters of play, Carr gets credit for the victory.
5. Carr gets the same stats has always, around 200 yards passing, 25 attempts and 20 completions. Same as always, offense scores 17 points. Carr gets credit for victory.

This game was won because the defense played a lot better.

Carr and the offense played the same as always, except that they actually scored points in the 4th quarter that meant something. The defense kept this game close the whole way through.

If I was Richard Smith, I would have went Buddy Ryan :wild: on Kubiak because the defense shows up and the offense plays the same old boring Capers way.

And you guys are telling me Carr deserves the game ball?

What would you have said if the Dolphins take it down the field & Mario doesn't tip that pass? Or if the series b4, the D doesn't stop them. My guess is " Its all Carr & the offenses' fault b/c they couldn't score when we needed them most." not " The defense sucks" despite them giving up half of what they gave up in the previous 3 games. It's really how you look at it. Is the glass half full or half empty?

infantrycak
10-03-2006, 01:06 PM
2. Carr does not run the 2 minute drill with 1:57 left in the first half on the Texans 20, Carr gets credit for the win.

Carr doesn't deserve credit for wins or loses--the team does. While you are on your rant you might try to stick at least somewhat to the facts. Carr didn't walk to the sideline and say coach I am not running a 2:00 drill. Kubiak made the call.

5. Carr gets the same stats has always, around 200 yards passing, 25 attempts and 20 completions.

This was already shown wrong once but since it didn't sink in--the Texans passing O averaged 139 ypg in 2005--this year 216 ypg--that is big positive difference. Over the course of the last 23 games coming into this season Carr had thrown for 200+ yds in just 6 games --this year 4 straight 200+ yd games. Oh and all of last year they managed 18 plays over 20 yds and 2 over 40 yds--this year at the quarter mark they are at 12 plays over 20 and 2 over 40 yds. Clearly better. On the flip side the running game is clearly worse averaging just 76 ypg at 3.2 ypc vs. 113.5 ypg at 4.2 ypc.

thunderkyss
10-03-2006, 01:07 PM
What would you have said if the Dolphins take it down the field & Mario doesn't tip that pass? Or if the series b4, the D doesn't stop them. My guess is " Its all Carr & the offenses' fault b/c they couldn't score when we needed them most." not " The defense sucks" despite them giving up half of what they gave up in the previous 3 games. It's really how you look at it. Is the glass half full or half empty?

If the D gave up the 2pointConversion, we'd see in overtime who would win the game.

Our Defense sucks..... but our offense does as well. As stated, it would be easier to sell this as an offensive victory if they'd have held the ball for three more minutes, or at least attempted a field goal.. but the didn't. They gave the ball to Mario, and said we did all we could do...... it's on you now.

Without a doubt, we won because both sides of the ball came to play..... but it leans more towards a defensive battle than an offensive free for all.

hollywood_texan
10-03-2006, 01:08 PM
What would you have said if the Dolphins take it down the field & Mario doesn't tip that pass? Or if the series b4, the D doesn't stop them. My guess is " Its all Carr & the offenses' fault b/c they couldn't score when we needed them most." not " The defense sucks" despite them giving up half of what they gave up in the previous 3 games. It's really how you look at it. Is the glass half full or half empty?

Very interesting. So by your analysis, depending on what the defense does, Carr gets credit for the win but doesn't get blamed for the loss?

By the way, if the defense had given up that two-point conversion, I would be railing on them. But they didn't give it up, and they played a lot better than what they showed in the previous weeks.

My main point is the that the game was a lot different because the defense played a lot better. The offense played the same as it always has.

If you think 17 points, 200 yards passing, and 90 yards rushing on a regular basis is good for an NFL offense, I really don't know what to say. That is what the offense is good for (look through the box scores back to 2004, that is what they do) and Kubiak really doesn't look that different from Capers right now.

thunderkyss
10-03-2006, 01:11 PM
Carr doesn't deserve credit for wins or loses--the team does. While you are on your rant you might try to stick at least somewhat to the facts. Carr didn't walk to the sideline and say "coach I am not running a 2:00 drill." Kubiak made the call.

Quotation marks are your friends......



This was already shown wrong once but since it didn't sink in--the Texans passing O averaged 139 ypg in 2005--this year 216 ypg--that is big positive difference. Over the course of the last 23 games coming into this season Carr had thrown for 200+ yds in just 6 games --this year 4 straight 200+ yd games. Oh and all of last year they managed 18 plays over 20 yds and 2 over 40 yds--this year at the quarter mark they are at 12 plays over 20 and 2 over 40 yds. Clearly better. On the flip side the running game is clearly worse averaging just 76 ypg at 3.2 ypc vs. 113.5 ypg at 4.2 ypc.

Thanks for this bit of info...... where ever it was posted before, I missed it..... this is good to know.

thunderkyss
10-03-2006, 01:14 PM
Very interesting. So by your analysis, depending on what the defense does, Carr gets credit for the win but doesn't get blamed for the loss?

By the way, if the defense had given up that two-point conversion, I would be railing on them. But they didn't give it up, and they played a lot better than what they showed in the previous weeks.

My main point is the that the game was a lot different because the defense played a lot better. The offense played the same as it always has.

If you think 17 points, 200 yards passing, and 90 yards rushing on a regular basis is good for an NFL offense, I really don't know what to say. That is what the offense is good for (look through the box scores back to 2004, that is what they do) and Kubiak really doesn't look that different from Capers right now.

In all honestsy, they played worse.... Miami doesn't compare with the offenses we've played so far........ not yet anyway.

our tackling was worse...... our coverage was worse... the D line played as well as they have been.... they were just given a little help.

hollywood_texan
10-03-2006, 01:19 PM
This was already shown wrong once but since it didn't sink in--the Texans passing O averaged 139 ypg in 2005--this year 216 ypg--that is big positive difference. Over the course of the last 23 games coming into this season Carr had thrown for 200+ yds in just 6 games --this year 4 straight 200+ yd games. Oh and all of last year they managed 18 plays over 20 yds and 2 over 40 yds--this year at the quarter mark they are at 12 plays over 20 and 2 over 40 yds. Clearly better. On the flip side the running game is clearly worse averaging just 76 ypg at 3.2 ypc vs. 113.5 ypg at 4.2 ypc.

infantrycak, my 200 yard number isn't an average or even a calculation. It is going through the box scores from 2003 and seeing what Carr is worth on any given Sunday.

I purposely took out the outliers in my eyeballing so the numbers don't get scewed.

Before 2006, he was worth about 175-180 yards per game with about 25 attempts and 16 completions. Now, he is worth about 200 yards a game, with about 27-28 attemptes with about 22 completions.

My anlaysis is really about eyeballing and not hard calculations.

Your numbers look right on the averages with calculations, but I think it is really important to take out the outliers in determining Carr's worth on any given Sunday. Carr has had many bad games, and a couple good games. I am not banging on him for the bad games, and I am not giving him credit for those couple of good games. Again, what is he worth on any given Sunday, that is my analysis.

Texans86
10-03-2006, 01:35 PM
infantrycak, my 200 yard number isn't an average or even a calculation. It is going through the box scores from 2003 and seeing what Carr is worth on any given Sunday.

I purposely took out the outliers in my eyeballing so the numbers don't get scewed.

Before 2006, he was worth about 175-180 yards per game with about 25 attempts and 16 completions. Now, he is worth about 200 yards a game, with about 27-28 attemptes with about 22 completions.

My anlaysis is really about eyeballing and not hard calculations.

Your numbers look right on the averages with calculations, but I think it is really important to take out the outliers in determining Carr's worth on any given Sunday. Carr has had many bad games, and a couple good games. I am not banging on him for the bad games, and I am not giving him credit for those couple of good games. Again, what is he worth on any given Sunday, that is my analysis.


So basically you'd like to look at the numbers that support your point of view, but not the whole. Understandable. Minus the fumbled snaps, every aspect of Carr's game has improved. I can't think of one statistic that he has not improved upon, and this is only four games into a brand new system. Before, you brought up the fact that the defense could not hold on to the ball for the last 3:30 in the game, but I blame that more on the running game than on Carr. Any team with a lead would be running the ball to preserve it. If we can find some semblance of a running game, this offense can be lethal, even with Carr at the helm.

hollywood_texan
10-03-2006, 01:46 PM
So basically you'd like to look at the numbers that support your point of view, but not the whole. Understandable. Minus the fumbled snaps, every aspect of Carr's game has improved. I can't think of one statistic that he has not improved upon, and this is only four games into a brand new system. Before, you brought up the fact that the defense could not hold on to the ball for the last 3:30 in the game, but I blame that more on the running game than on Carr. Any team with a lead would be running the ball to preserve it. If we can find some semblance of a running game, this offense can be lethal, even with Carr at the helm.

I really don't think I am looking at the numbers to his detriment.

Look, he has improved. By the standards I am applying him too, Carr has been very consistent, which he really hasn't been in the past. I feel pretty confident in saying Carr can constitently put up 200 yards and 28 attempts with 22 completions every week. Before that, he would do it like 2 out of 3 or 4 weeks to hit his lower sweet spot numbers

So, Carr's consistently hitting his sweet spot numbers and they are a little higher than in the past.

But, that isn't going to be enough to have a winning season in my opinion in the AFC and in our division. And it wasn't really enough to give him the gameball from last Sunday. Just my opinion of course.

As for your issue of running the football on that last drive, part of the reason Carr is the highest rated passer in the league is because of several short throws that really increase his completion percentage. Point is, the Texans are throwing many balls in a game that are really running plays. Bottom line here, Carr should have been able to drive the ball downfield to at least get a fieldgoal.

If you can't expect that of Carr, what can you expect of any player on this team? It was clutch time, and just like the 2 minute drill, they didn't do it!

bigTEXan8
10-03-2006, 01:52 PM
So basically you'd like to look at the numbers that support your point of view, but not the whole. Understandable. Minus the fumbled snaps, every aspect of Carr's game has improved. I can't think of one statistic that he has not improved upon, and this is only four games into a brand new system. Before, you brought up the fact that the defense could not hold on to the ball for the last 3:30 in the game, but I blame that more on the running game than on Carr. Any team with a lead would be running the ball to preserve it. If we can find some semblance of a running game, this offense can be lethal, even with Carr at the helm.

i could easily say that carr and the rest of the offense could be solid, and put up more than just under 20 points a game, given a decent running game. i've actually been relatively impressed that carr has been able to put up the #'s he actually has.

Goatcheese
10-03-2006, 02:01 PM
Carr played an important part in the win, but at the end of the day football is the ultimate team game.

This was a total team win, and I'm happy for them[the defense]

Mr teX
10-03-2006, 02:29 PM
What would you have said if the Dolphins take it down the field & Mario doesn't tip that pass? Or if the series b4, the D doesn't stop them. My guess is " Its all Carr & the offenses' fault b/c they couldn't score when we needed them most." not " The defense sucks" despite them giving up half of what they gave up in the previous 3 games. It's really how you look at it. Is the glass half full or half empty?

My point, was not to say that Carr & the offense won the game for us; I think it was a team win however you look at it. The glass half full.... reference was to say that Some people can look @ it & say that the offense accomplished alot more than what was immediately present in the stat sheet. (staying on the field longer, running game was SOMEWHAT better etc.) Others tend to only look @ it in terms of Critical plays in which, the D has the edge. I'm well aware of the 2 point conversion's significance, but bottom line is if the Offense doesn't do what it did (score points however many) & if the D doesn't do what it did (sacks, failed 2-point conversion) they could have lost the game. it was an all around team game & that's what this game is about.

infantrycak
10-03-2006, 02:31 PM
I really don't think I am looking at the numbers to his detriment.

HT--you are clearly playing with the numbers to try to characterize him as the same he has always been when he has obviously improved this year. He still has plenty of improvement to make no doubt. OTOH you want to ignore the running game problems which are equally clear. You know an effective running game--just a mid pack one like they have had the last couple years (a) should improve the passing game even more (3rd and 3 is much easier to convert than 3rd and 6--although right now the Texans are converting without a running game at a rate which ties them for 4th in the league), (b) help sustain drives and (c) overall be good for one extra field goal each game--i.e. to the mark of a mid pack 20 ppg offense. Of course everyone would like to see even better than that and most likely after the new HC works with a half new team and new systems on both of the ball for more than 4 games you will see a progression.

hollywood_texan
10-03-2006, 02:33 PM
What would you have said if the Dolphins take it down the field & Mario doesn't tip that pass? Or if the series b4, the D doesn't stop them. My guess is " Its all Carr & the offenses' fault b/c they couldn't score when we needed them most." not " The defense sucks" despite them giving up half of what they gave up in the previous 3 games. It's really how you look at it. Is the glass half full or half empty?


My point, was not to say that Carr & the offense won the game for us; I think it was a team win however you look at it. The glass half full.... reference was to say that Some people can look @ it & say that the offense accomplished alot more than what was immediately present in the stat sheet. (staying on the field longer, running game was SOMEWHAT better etc.) Others tend to only look @ it in terms of Critical plays in which, the D has the edge. I'm well aware of the 2 point conversion's significance, but bottom line is if the Offense doesn't do what it did (score points however many) & if the D doesn't do what it did (sacks, failed 2-point conversion) they could have lost the game. it was an all around team game & that's what this game is about.


Are you talking to yourself?

I think I understand what your saying.

I'll just add, the offense's job is to score points, the defense's job is to not allow the other team to score points.

Through three quarters, the defense did a lot better job than the offense in that area. And to protect a lead, the offense couldn't follow through.

Bottom line, the offense had two good drives all game.

HOU-TEX
10-03-2006, 02:45 PM
Are you talking to yourself?

I think I understand what your saying.

I'll just add, the offense's job is to score points, the defense's job is to not allow the other team to score points.

Through three quarters, the defense did a lot better job than the offense in that area. And to protect a lead, the offense couldn't follow through.

Bottom line, the offense had two good drives all game.

That's funny! LOL!

The offense was actually moving the ball pretty good IMO. If it weren't for the two turnovers in these two drives, who's to say we wouldn't have scored more?

Houston Texans at 05:31
1-10-HOU11 (5:31) S.Gado left guard to HST 12 for 1 yard (C.Crowder, J.Zgonina).
2-9-HOU12 (4:59) S.Gado up the middle to HST 15 for 3 yards (D.Wilkinson, Z.Thomas).
3-6-HOU15 (4:19) D.Carr pass short middle to K.Walter to HST 21 for 6 yards (W.Allen).
1-10-HOU21 (3:35) D.Carr sacked at HST 18 for -3 yards (V.Holliday, J.Taylor).
2-13-HOU18 (3:00) D.Carr pass short left to A.Johnson to HST 22 for 4 yards (W.Allen).
3-9-HOU22 (2:22) D.Carr pass deep left to A.Johnson to HST 46 for 24 yards (Z.Thomas) [Y.Bell].
1-10-HOU46 (1:40) S.Gado right guard to HST 48 for 2 yards (Z.Thomas).
2-8-HOU48 (1:06) S.Gado right end to HST 48 for no gain (K.Carter).
3-8-HOU48 (:25) D.Carr pass short left intended for A.Johnson INTERCEPTED by W.Allen at MIA 44. W.Allen to HST 45 for 11 yards (A.Johnson).

Houston Texans at 15:00
1-10-HOU20 (15:00) D.Carr pass short left to E.Moulds to HST 29 for 9 yards (C.Crowder).
2-1-HOU29 (14:34) R.Dayne up the middle to HST 33 for 4 yards (J.Taylor).
1-10-HOU33 (14:04) D.Carr sacked at HST 33 for 0 yards (W.Allen).
2-10-HOU33 (13:28) D.Carr pass incomplete deep right to A.Johnson.
3-10-HOU33 (13:20) D.Carr pass short left to K.Walter to HST 43 for 10 yards (Z.Thomas).
1-10-HOU43 (12:51) D.Carr pass incomplete to E.Moulds (W.Allen).
2-10-HOU43 (12:45) R.Dayne up the middle to MIA 45 for 12 yards (T.Tillman).
1-10-MIA45 (12:08) R.Dayne left guard to MIA 45 for no gain (J.Taylor).
2-10-MIA45 (11:28) D.Carr sacked at 50 for -5 yards (J.Taylor). FUMBLES (J.Taylor), RECOVERED by MIA-J.Taylor at 50. J.Taylor to HST 31 for 19 yards (S.McKinney).

hollywood_texan
10-03-2006, 02:46 PM
This is what I posted:

I really don't think I am looking at the numbers to his detriment.

Look, he has improved. By the standards I am applying him too, Carr has been very consistent, which he really hasn't been in the past. I feel pretty confident in saying Carr can constitently put up 200 yards and 28 attempts with 22 completions every week. Before that, he would do it like 2 out of 3 or 4 weeks to hit his lower sweet spot numbers

So, Carr's consistently hitting his sweet spot numbers and they are a little higher than in the past.

But, that isn't going to be enough to have a winning season in my opinion in the AFC and in our division. And it wasn't really enough to give him the gameball from last Sunday. Just my opinion of course.

As for your issue of running the football on that last drive, part of the reason Carr is the highest rated passer in the league is because of several short throws that really increase his completion percentage. Point is, the Texans are throwing many balls in a game that are really running plays. Bottom line here, Carr should have been able to drive the ball downfield to at least get a fieldgoal.

If you can't expect that of Carr, what can you expect of any player on this team? It was clutch time, and just like the 2 minute drill, they didn't do it!


This is how you responded:



The quote you pulled from my posting is:

"I really don't think I am looking at the numbers to his detriment"

Then your response:

HT--you are clearly playing with the numbers to try to characterize him as the same he has always been when he has obviously improved this year. He still has plenty of improvement to make no doubt. OTOH you want to ignore the running game problems which are equally clear. You know an effective running game--just a mid pack one like they have had the last couple years (a) should improve the passing game even more (3rd and 3 is much easier to convert than 3rd and 6--although right now the Texans are converting without a running game at a rate which ties them for 4th in the league), (b) help sustain drives and (c) overall be good for one extra field goal each game--i.e. to the mark of a mid pack 20 ppg offense. Of course everyone would like to see even better than that and most likely after the new HC works with a half new team and new systems on both of the ball for more than 4 games you will see a progression.

infantrycak, you say I am playing with the numbers, but you clearly taking a selected portion from my posting.

Here is what I said immediately following what you selected:

"Look, he has improved. By the standards I am applying him too, Carr has been very consistent, which he really hasn't been in the past. I feel pretty confident in saying Carr can constitently put up 200 yards and 28 attempts with 22 completions every week. Before that, he would do it like 2 out of 3 or 4 weeks to hit his lower sweet spot numbers."


As for you point about the running game, I agree with you on running the football is extremely important. For some background, I am a run first guy.

But, I think the Texans can find it easier to run the football if they pass the ball by using the entire part of the field on a consistent basis. It seems to me that the linebackers and safeties are leaning forward because they really are not concerned about the pass, particularly the medium to deep throws down the middle of the field.

You can go the route of pounding the ball on the run, but I think it will be a lot tougher than loosening things up by making the linebackers and safeties being concerned about the entire part of the field.

My point is, the linebackers and safeties are playing run and really not concenrned too much about the pass.

infantrycak
10-03-2006, 02:51 PM
infantrycak, you say I am playing with the numbers, but you clearly taking a selected portion from my posting.

Yeah--the portion which contained an inaccurate picture trying to characterize the average production this year as anything resembling the 23 games prior to it. In any event, this has been hashed over too much at this point.

hollywood_texan
10-03-2006, 02:55 PM
Yeah--the portion which contained an inaccurate picture trying to characterize the average production this year as anything resembling the 23 games prior to it. In any event, this has been hashed over too much at this point.


All right, let's just leave it at that then.

I don't think you want to recognize the part of my posting that I am trying to point out to you.

infantrycak
10-03-2006, 03:02 PM
I don't think you want to recognize the part of my posting that I am trying to point out to you.

Which part was that?--the passing more to set up the running game part?

We were grossly incompetent as a passing offense last year and still slugged out 4.2 ypc. Our only rushing TD was by the QB. I'll look out for it when I rewatch the game but I don't remember the Dolphins stacking the box and ignoring the passing game.

hollywood_texan
10-03-2006, 03:26 PM
Which part was that?--the passing more to set up the running game part?

We were grossly incompetent as a passing offense last year and still slugged out 4.2 ypc. Our only rushing TD was by the QB. I'll look out for it when I rewatch the game but I don't remember the Dolphins stacking the box and ignoring the passing game.

Ok, I guess we are going to rehash something.

I really don't think it is a rehash though, but I have a feeling you will take it the other way. Maybe, we'll see.

When you responded to my posting, I was under the impression that you were saying that I basically wrote that Carr was just like 2005.

My response was to point out that I said he not only improved his numbers and overall play, but is also very consistent in doing so. Fumbles seem to be the only real sticking point from old issues.

I was merely trying to point that out to you. If I misunderstood your posting, then my bad.

Carr is clearly better this year and very consistent with what we have seen the first four games. I think that is the point I put accross in my first posting to quoted.

In improvement, that means he puts up around 200 - 215 yards passing, 28 attempts, and 22 completions. Better than last year and he is very consistent and probably better than 2004 because of the consistency part. He still has a lot to improve on though.

As for the running game part, unrelated to what I was trying to say earlier, I think a lot passes are taking the place of some running calls. But, maybe that is part of your point.

I here you on the running game and I agree it is big problem and needs to be solved. However, as I stated earlier, I think my solution is very different from yours though. Carr needs to get the ball down the medium to deep middle parts of the field. That will get the linebackers and safeties covering the entire field, which should loosen up the line for running.

I don't think the issue is stacking the box so much but where they end up playing to.

infantrycak
10-03-2006, 05:33 PM
Carr needs to get the ball down the medium to deep middle parts of the field. That will get the linebackers and safeties covering the entire field, which should loosen up the line for running.

I don't think the issue is stacking the box so much but where they end up playing to.

Carr has improved on that but particularly needs work stretching the passes from the 1-10 yd zone (62% of his passes right now vs. 43% McNabb, 50.5% Brees, 44% Plummer) and into the 10-20 yd zone (11% Carr vs. 13% McNabb, 17% Brees, 23 % Plummer). His numbers behind the LOS and deeper than 20 yds are very similar to all three so far this season. I still come back to a chicken and egg thing on this. While I am sure a more potent passing attack would open up the running game, right now the running game is lagging behind the passing game and it is equally true that a more potent rushing game would open up the passing game. We ran better last year with worse passing--the passing game has progressed while the running game has regressed.

thunderkyss
10-03-2006, 09:23 PM
That's funny! LOL!

The offense was actually moving the ball pretty good IMO. If it weren't for the two turnovers in these two drives, who's to say we wouldn't have scored more?

That is exactly the problem........ the two turnovers....... it's part of the offenses job to protect the ball..... add onto the turnovers any fumbles we did recover & sacks.... they stall drives, steal momentum... They are detrimental to the offensive performance.

HJam72
10-03-2006, 09:29 PM
Carr fumbles too much.

What I mean by that is that he has improved drastically from last year.

Which means he still sucks.

That's why he has a great passer rating.

Which is why we are 1-3 and can't run the ball.

But our O-line is much improved and our RBs are really good.

But we still can't run because Carr still sucks.

I think that may have summed up the last two pages. :)

thunderkyss
10-03-2006, 09:56 PM
Carr fumbles too much.

What I mean by that is that he has improved drastically from last year.

Which means he still sucks.

That's why he has a great passer rating.

Which is why we are 1-3 and can't run the ball.

But our O-line is much improved and our RBs are really good.

But we still can't run because Carr still sucks.

I think that may have summed up the last two pages. :)



I think you forgot to mention that Carr sucks......

Our offense was stalled because of our passing game against Philly, Indy, and Washington.

TK_Gamer
10-03-2006, 10:03 PM
Carr fumbles too much.

What I mean by that is that he has improved drastically from last year.

Which means he still sucks.

That's why he has a great passer rating.

Which is why we are 1-3 and can't run the ball.

But our O-line is much improved and our RBs are really good.

But we still can't run because Carr still sucks.

I think that may have summed up the last two pages. :)

If Carr makes it to the pro bowl, and finishes the season with the best QB rating, the most touchdowns and the fewest int's, to some people he will still suck and they will whine next year when we dont take a QB with our first pick. we are not a good football team, we never were. which QB we have really has little or nothing to do with it. We dont have an oline, and we never have. we havent had a secondary since 2004 even then it was average. people say the QB is an easy target for failure and Texans fans have proved that to me. now if we won 10 to 12 games a year and made it to the playoffs, I'm pretty sure alot of these whining nitpicking complaints would mysteriously go away, no matter what the stats said about this player or that player. I live in Kansas now and it's no different here, the chiefs stunk up the place in their first game and lost in overtime to denver. the fans all said they sucked. they beat the crap out of a terrible 49er team and now they are great. No logic to any of this. I just want the texans to get better, and I think they will, but they have a lot of catching up to do just to become an average team, let alone a great one. I trust Carr at QB more than I trust mcleon at CB or Greenwood at LB or CC brown at FS, I could go on and on right down the depth chart, david carr is way way down on the list of players that worry me.

thunderkyss
10-03-2006, 10:21 PM
If Carr makes it to the pro bowl, and finishes the season with the best QB rating, the most touchdowns and the fewest int's, to some people he will still suck and they will whine next year when we dont take a QB with our first pick. we are not a good football team, we never were. which QB we have really has little or nothing to do with it. We dont have an oline, and we never have. we havent had a secondary since 2004 even then it was average. people say the QB is an easy target for failure and Texans fans have proved that to me. now if we won 10 to 12 games a year and made it to the playoffs, I'm pretty sure alot of these whining nitpicking complaints would mysteriously go away, no matter what the stats said about this player or that player. I live in Kansas now and it's no different here, the chiefs stunk up the place in their first game and lost in overtime to denver. the fans all said they sucked. they beat the crap out of a terrible 49er team and now they are great. No logic to any of this. I just want the texans to get better, and I think they will, but they have a lot of catching up to do just to become an average team, let alone a great one. I trust Carr at QB more than I trust mcleon at CB or Greenwood at LB or CC brown at FS, I could go on and on right down the depth chart, david carr is way way down on the list of players that worry me.



What is it going to take for you guys to understand that Carr did indeed suck. He is playing better now, because he wasn't playing better before. Kubiak has mentioned that he took David back to square one. He went back to working on his footwork, his technique, and his decision making. He has criticized Carr's play through every game with concern to his consistency in Qtrs 2 & 3.

Everything that Carr has been criticized for by the Haters, are the same things Carr has been criticized for by Kubiak.

So far, the only thing the Haters have been wrong about, was that David will never be any good....... which we may not see one way or the other, until David is in a situation where he should fall apart. Kinda like JakePlummer getting pumelled by the Steelers(??) in the playoffs.. where he reverted to the old Jake, and is still playing like the old Jake.

Kaiser Toro
10-03-2006, 10:39 PM
This just in.....The NFL has declared that David Carr won the game against the Dolphins this past Saturday rather than the Texans. Due to the recent declaration the Texans have been stripped of their win and now are in fourth place, ahead of the Titans, but just below the Colts, Jags and David Carr.

I say Freeeesss, you say no. Fres! No! I overheard that at a party in Vegas twenty years ago. It was a crazy mixed up time and Boyd Grant owned the West.

edit: Fresno fans need to get your SID to make a google search for Boyd Grant come up as the first selection. Great coach.

infantrycak
10-04-2006, 12:01 AM
Our offense was stalled because of our passing game against Philly, Indy, and Washington.

I guess to some it is fun to just make crud up on the fly.

thunderkyss
10-04-2006, 12:10 AM
I guess to some it is fun to just make crud up on the fly.

you of all people shouldn't have to guess.

infantrycak
10-04-2006, 12:15 AM
you of all people shouldn't have to guess.

Dude--Kubiak, every OLmen, the RB's, the WR's, etc. have all acknowledged the lack of a running game and how it is lagging the passing game. Whatever--I guess you with your 3.2 yds and a cloud of dust is pretty good and your dysfunctional stop watch which runs at a completely different speed than the one on the game tape know better.

Vinny
10-04-2006, 12:16 AM
Dude--Kubiak, every OLmen, the RB's, the WR's, etc. have all acknowledged the lack of a running game and how it is lagging the passing game. Whatever--I guess you with your 3.2 yds and a cloud of dust is pretty good and your dysfunctional stop watch which runs at a completely different speed than the one on the game tape know better.:tv:

thunderkyss
10-04-2006, 12:26 AM
First two plays of the Indy game
Houston Texans at 14:53
1-10-HOU25 (14:53) D.Carr sacked at HST 17 for -8 yards (R.Mathis).
Indianapolis Colts at 14:20
2-18-IND16 (14:20) D.Carr FUMBLES (Aborted) at HST 16, RECOVERED by IND-R.Brock at HST 16. R.Brock to HST 16 for no gain (D.Carr).

second possesion of the Indy game
Houston Texans at 12:43
1-10-HOU24 (12:43) W.Lundy left tackle to HST 24 for no gain (G.Brackett, R.Mathis).
2-10-HOU24 (12:04) D.Carr sacked at HST 16 for -8 yards (R.Mathis). FUMBLES (R.Mathis), recovered by HST-Z.Wiegert at HST 17. Z.Wiegert to HST 17 for no gain (C.June). Minus 8 sack yards.
3-17-HOU17 (11:25) W.Lundy left tackle to HST 25 for 8 yards (G.Brackett, M.Jackson).
4-9-HOU25 (10:56) C.Stanley punts 38 yards to IND 37, Center-B.Pittman, fair catch by T.Wilkins.
Unless Carr gets sacked while handing the ball off, I consider that part of the passing game.

Our third possession, against Indy
Houston Texans at 08:09
1-10-HOU44 (8:09) R.Dayne left guard to HST 47 for 3 yards (R.Brock).
2-7-HOU47 (7:35) R.Dayne up the middle to IND 45 for 8 yards (C.June, B.Sanders).
1-10-IND45 (6:59) R.Dayne right guard to IND 37 for 8 yards (C.June).
2-2-IND37 (6:24) R.Dayne up the middle to IND 40 for -3 yards (Da.Reid).
3-5-IND40 (5:47) D.Carr pass short right to E.Moulds to IND 34 for 6 yards (N.Harper).
1-10-IND34 (5:14) W.Lundy up the middle to IND 32 for 2 yards (G.Brackett).
2-8-IND32 (4:38) D.Carr pass short middle to E.Shepherd to IND 25 for 7 yards (B.Sanders).
3-1-IND25 (4:02) W.Lundy up the middle to IND 23 for 2 yards (D.Klecko).
1-10-IND23 (3:29) W.Lundy left guard to IND 19 for 4 yards (M.Reagor). FUMBLES (M.Reagor), RECOVERED by IND-M.Reagor at IND 19. M.Reagor to IND 19 for no gain (W.Lundy).
Okay, that's one for the run game, two against the passing game.

4th possession
Houston Texans at 11:58
1-10-HOU20 (11:58) R.Dayne right tackle to HST 26 for 6 yards (R.Mathis).
2-4-HOU26 (11:21) D.Carr pass short middle to O.Daniels to HST 31 for 5 yards (G.Brackett).
1-10-HOU31 (10:49) R.Dayne up the middle to HST 36 for 5 yards (G.Brackett).
2-5-HOU36 (10:13) D.Carr pass incomplete short right to A.Johnson.
PENALTY on HST-J.Cook, Chop Block, 15 yards, enforced at HST 36 - No Play.
2-20-HOU21 (10:09) D.Carr pass short middle to K.Walter to HST 25 for 4 yards (C.June).
3-16-HOU25 (9:33) D.Carr pass incomplete short middle to O.Daniels (C.June).
4-16-HOU25 (9:28) C.Stanley punts 38 yards to IND 37, Center-B.Pittman. T.Wilkins to IND 44 for 7 yards (T.Evans).
PENALTY on IND-M.Giordano, Illegal Block Above the Waist, 10 yards, enforced at IND 44.
1st down, 5 yards from the run game, on two occasions. Penalty.... okay, that's part of the run game. But a short 4 yard pass on 2-20?? then the pass to OwenDaniels was a 5 yard pass on 3-16?? WTF??

5th possession, we score a field goal. about 50 yards on short passes, and a 7 yard run by SamkonGado.

6th possession
Houston Texans at 08:07
1-10-HOU20 (8:07) R.Dayne up the middle to HST 20 for no gain (D.Freeney). HST-C.Spencer was injured during the play. His return is Questionable.
2-10-HOU20 (7:50) D.Carr pass short right to J.Cook to HST 21 for 1 yard (N.Harper).
3-9-HOU21 (7:14) D.Carr scrambles right end to HST 23 for 2 yards (R.Mathis).
4-7-HOU23 (6:36) C.Stanley punts 43 yards to IND 34, Center-B.Pittman. T.Wilkins to IND 45 for 11 yards (B.Pittman).
You decide...... I'm thinking failure of the passing game.

7th possession
Houston Texans at 03:12
1-10-HOU21 (3:12) S.Gado right end to HST 23 for 2 yards (G.Brackett).
2-8-HOU23 (2:46) (No Huddle) D.Carr pass short middle to S.Gado to HST 26 for 3 yards (G.Gardner, G.Brackett).
3-5-HOU26 (2:08) D.Carr sacked at HST 20 for -6 yards (R.Brock). FUMBLES (R.Brock), and recovers at HST 23. D.Carr to HST 23 for no gain (G.Brackett). Minus 3 sack yards.
4-8-HOU23 (1:44) C.Stanley punts 46 yards to IND 31, Center-B.Pittman. T.Wilkins pushed ob at IND 31 for no gain.
PENALTY on HST-J.Simmons, Illegal Motion, 5 yards, enforced between downs.
3rd & 5....... sacked again...... ring another one up for the passing game.

eight possession, we score on a 33 yard pass to Owen Daniels.... most of the drive is through the air.

9th possession, a big 27 yard run by SamkonGado sets up the touchdown

10th possession, another touchdown...... most of the drive through the air. there was only one rushing attempt by Lundy for 9 yards.

I'm counting 5 of 6 possesions we failed to score on against the passing game. How do you count it??

thunderkyss
10-04-2006, 12:41 AM
1st possesion against Washington... after two successfull 3.2 yard runs and a cloud of dust, Carr hits Aj on a play action pass (set up by the previous 3.2 yard & dust thingy) for a big touchdown.

2nd possession

Houston Texans at 08:37
1-10-HOU21 (8:37) R.Dayne right guard to HST 22 for 1 yard (C.Griffin).
2-9-HOU22 (7:59) D.Carr pass short middle to R.Dayne to HST 35 for 13 yards (C.Rogers).
1-10-HOU35 (7:23) D.Carr pass short left to A.Johnson to HST 42 for 7 yards (C.Rogers).
2-3-HOU42 (6:48) D.Carr to HST 42 for no gain. FUMBLES, recovered by HST-C.Pitts at HST 42. C.Pitts to HST 42 for no gain (W.Holdman).
3-3-HOU42 (6:14) D.Carr sacked at HST 34 for -8 yards (sack split by K.Golston and L.Marshall).
4-11-HOU34 (5:46) C.Stanley punts 40 yards to WAS 26, Center-B.Pittman, fair catch by A.Randle El.

Passing game failure...... big time beggining with the QB fumble.

Third possession
Houston Texans at 14:45
1-10-HOU29 (14:45) D.Carr FUMBLES (Aborted) at HST 29, and recovers at HST 29.
2-11-HOU29 (14:20) D.Carr pass incomplete to R.Dayne (L.Marshall).
3-11-HOU29 (14:13) D.Carr pass incomplete to A.Johnson.
PENALTY on WAS-M.Rumph, Illegal Use of Hands, 5 yards, enforced at HST 29 - No Play.
1-10-HOU34 (14:02) R.Dayne left end to HST 37 for 3 yards (A.Montgomery).
PENALTY on WAS-W.Holdman, Face Mask (5 Yards), 5 yards, enforced at HST 37.
1-2-HOU42 (13:40) D.Carr pass incomplete deep middle to A.Johnson (C.Rogers).
2-2-HOU42 (13:39) R.Dayne up the middle to HST 49 for 7 yards (M.Washington, L.Marshall).
1-10-HOU49 (13:10) R.Dayne right guard to WAS 47 for 4 yards (C.Griffin).
2-6-WAS47 (13:10) PENALTY on HST-C.Pitts, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at WAS 47 - No Play.
2-11-HOU48 (12:18) R.Dayne right end to WAS 45 for 7 yards (W.Holdman).
3-4-WAS45 (11:36) D.Carr pass incomplete short left to O.Daniels (M.Washington).
4-4-WAS45 (11:29) C.Stanley punts 35 yards to WAS 10, Center-B.Pittman, fair catch by A.Randle El. (Punt hang time 5.4 seconds.)
QB fumble, incomplete, incomplete, run, incomplete, run, run, incomplete

I'm putting that one on the passing game. that's 2.

4th possession
Houston Texans at 09:04
1-10-HOU29 (9:04) R.Dayne right guard to HST 34 for 5 yards (D.Evans).
2-5-HOU34 (8:29) D.Carr pass short left to E.Moulds to HST 40 for 6 yards (C.Rogers).
1-10-HOU40 (7:56) R.Dayne right tackle to HST 40 for no gain (C.Griffin; M.Washington).
2-10-HOU40 (7:25) D.Carr pass incomplete short right to O.Daniels (A.Archuleta).
3-10-HOU40 (7:18) D.Carr pass to A.Johnson pushed ob at 50 for 10 yards (C.Rogers).
1-10-50 (6:50) PENALTY on HST-Z.Wiegert, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at 50 - No Play.
1-20-HOU40 (6:18) D.Carr pass short left to J.Putzier to WAS 48 for 12 yards (L.Marshall, C.Rogers).
2-8-WAS48 (5:45) S.Gado left guard to WAS 48 for no gain (W.Holdman).
3-8-WAS48 (5:07) D.Carr pass incomplete to E.Moulds (M.Washington). WAS-A.Carter was injured during the play.
4-8-WAS48 (5:02) C.Stanley punts 34 yards to WAS 14, Center-B.Pittman. A.Randle El pushed ob at WAS 18 for 4 yards (J.Simmons). (Punt hang time 4.4 seconds.)
a few incompletes in there. a holding in the run game, and a no gainer on a run play...... I'll mark this one down as an ineffective run possession, even though the RBs did their job.

5th possession..... to start the third Qtr
Houston Texans at 14:53
1-10-HOU19 (14:53) R.Dayne right guard to HST 21 for 2 yards (L.Marshall, W.Holdman).
2-8-HOU21 (14:26) D.Carr pass incomplete short right to J.Putzier (C.Griffin).
3-8-HOU21 (14:21) D.Carr pass incomplete short left to A.Johnson.
4-8-HOU21 (14:15) C.Stanley punts 49 yards to WAS 30, Center-B.Pittman, downed by HST-D.Polk. (Punt hang time 5.6 seconds.)
you know I'm going to put this one on the Passing game.... 3..... running game 1.

6th possession.
Houston Texans at 05:29
1-10-HOU18 (5:29) D.Carr pass short middle to A.Johnson to HST 21 for 3 yards (K.Wright).
2-7-HOU21 (5:29) PENALTY on HST-J.Putzier, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at HST 21 - No Play.
2-12-HOU16 (4:56) D.Carr pass short left to A.Johnson pushed ob at HST 29 for 13 yards (S.Taylor).
1-10-HOU29 (4:29) D.Carr pass short middle to E.Moulds to HST 38 for 9 yards (W.Holdman, C.Rogers).
2-1-HOU38 (4:00) R.Dayne right tackle to HST 38 for no gain (P.Daniels, C.Griffin).
3-1-HOU38 (3:29) R.Dayne up the middle to HST 40 for 2 yards (P.Daniels).
1-10-HOU40 (2:55) D.Carr pass short right to A.Johnson to HST 47 for 7 yards (S.Taylor, W.Holdman).
2-3-HOU47 (2:23) D.Carr pass short left to E.Moulds pushed ob at WAS 46 for 7 yards (A.Archuleta).
1-10-WAS46 (1:58) D.Carr scrambles to WAS 43 for 3 yards (A.Montgomery). FUMBLES (A.Montgomery), RECOVERED by WAS-K.Golston at WAS 39. K.Golston to WAS 39 for no gain (M.Bruener).
it was a fumbled run..... I'll blame this one on the Running game, but you know what's what...... Passing game 3, Running game 2

7th possession... touchdown pass. Only two runs, one for 11 yards, and one for 5 yards on 2nd & 10.

8th possesion.
Houston Texans at 05:01
1-10-HOU27 (5:01) D.Carr pass to E.Moulds to HST 32 for 5 yards (L.Marshall).
2-5-HOU32 (4:39) D.Carr pass to A.Johnson to WAS 48 for 20 yards (W.Holdman).
1-10-WAS48 (4:10) D.Carr pass to A.Johnson to WAS 39 for 9 yards (C.Rogers).
2-1-WAS39 (3:37) D.Carr pass to A.Johnson to WAS 30 for 9 yards (C.Rogers).
1-10-WAS30 (2:59) D.Carr pass intended for K.Walter INTERCEPTED by K.Wright at WAS 0. Touchback.
not one run attempted.



Passing game 4... Run game 2*


* designate a run by the QB after the QB couldn't find anyone to throw the ball to.

thunderkyss
10-04-2006, 12:52 AM
First possession against Philly. Mostly through the air. Wali Lundy(I don't know why he started) 4 carries for 8 yards.

Second possession
Houston Texans at 06:18
1-10-HOU19 (6:18) D.Carr pass to A.Johnson pushed ob at HST 30 for 11 yards (J.Trotter).
1-10-HOU30 (5:48) V.Morency left end to HST 29 for -1 yards (S.Brown).
2-11-HOU29 (5:12) D.Carr pass incomplete short middle to J.Putzier (M.Patterson).
3-11-HOU29 (5:05) V.Morency right guard to HST 26 for -3 yards (S.Barber).
4-14-HOU26 (4:27) C.Stanley punts 48 yards to PHI 26, Center-B.Pittman. B.Westbrook to PHI 31 for 5 yards (R.Alexander, C.Anderson). (Punt hang time 5.0 seconds.)
Run game...

3rd Possession
Houston Texans at 01:40
1-10-HOU40 (1:40) D.Carr pass short middle to W.Lundy to HST 35 for -5 yards (M.McCoy).
2-15-HOU35 (1:06) W.Lundy left end to HST 34 for -1 yards (D.Howard).
3-16-HOU34 (:32) D.Carr pass short right to A.Johnson pushed ob at HST 40 for 6 yards (R.Hood).
Run game

4th Possession
Houston Texans at 11:01
1-10-HOU20 (11:01) D.Carr pass deep middle to A.Johnson to HST 42 for 22 yards (M.Lewis).
1-10-HOU42 (10:22) V.Morency right tackle to HST 44 for 2 yards (B.Bunkley).
2-8-HOU44 (9:51) D.Carr pass short right to V.Morency to 50 for 6 yards (J.Trotter) [B.Bunkley].
3-2-50 (9:15) V.Morency right tackle to PHI 47 for 3 yards (B.Bunkley).
1-10-PHI47 (8:40) D.Carr sacked at 50 for -3 yards (J.Thomas).
2-13-50 (8:10) PENALTY on HST-C.Spencer, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at 50 - No Play.
2-18-HOU45 (7:55) D.Carr pass to K.Walter to PHI 47 for 8 yards (M.McCoy). FUMBLES (M.McCoy), recovered by HST-S.McKinney at PHI 44. S.McKinney to PHI 44 for no gain (J.Trotter).
3-7-PHI44 (7:55) D.Carr sacked at HST 49 for -7 yards (T.Cole).
4-14-HOU49 (7:55) (Punt formation)
PENALTY on HST-C.Stanley, Delay of Game, 5 yards, enforced at HST 49 - No Play.
4-19-HOU44 (6:07) C.Stanley punts 31 yards to PHI 25, Center-B.Pittman, fair catch by B.Westbrook.
fumbles & sacks out of the passing game.

5th possession..... field goal.... still poor running by WaliLundy & sacking of David Carr

6th possession......
Houston Texans at 11:28
1-10-HOU17 (11:28) PENALTY on PHI-M.Patterson, Encroachment, 5 yards, enforced at HST 17 - No Play.
1-5-HOU22 (11:23) W.Lundy right guard to HST 25 for 3 yards (M.McCoy, J.Trotter).
2-2-HOU25 (10:52) W.Lundy left guard to HST 27 for 2 yards (M.Patterson).
1-10-HOU27 (10:19) D.Carr pass incomplete to E.Moulds.
PENALTY on PHI-M.Lewis, Defensive Pass Interference, 15 yards, enforced at HST 27 - No Play.
1-10-HOU42 (10:11) D.Carr pass short left to E.Moulds to HST 45 for 3 yards (M.McCoy).
2-7-HOU45 (9:38) W.Lundy right end to PHI 44 for 11 yards (M.McCoy).
1-10-PHI44 (9:02) D.Carr pass short middle to W.Lundy to PHI 40 for 4 yards (D.Howard, J.Trotter).
2-6-PHI40 (8:30) D.Carr pass incomplete short right.
3-6-PHI40 (8:22) D.Carr sacked at 50 for -10 yards (J.Kearse).
4-16-50 (7:46) C.Stanley punts 42 yards to PHI 8, Center-B.Pittman, fair catch by B.Westbrook. (Punt hang time 4.8 seconds.)
Passing game



7th possession....
Houston Texans at 04:57
1-10-HOU38 (4:57) D.Carr pass short left to A.Johnson pushed ob at HST 43 for 5 yards (B.Dawkins).
2-5-HOU43 (4:32) D.Carr sacked at HST 35 for -8 yards (T.Cole). (HST #8 Carr tripped over lineman's feet, and attempted to get up and pass.)
3-13-HOU35 (4:01) D.Carr pass incomplete to O.Daniels (T.Cole).
4-13-HOU35 (3:56) C.Stanley punts 47 yards to PHI 18, Center-B.Pittman. B.Westbrook to PHI 27 for 9 yards (D.Polk). (Punt hang time 5.3 seconds.)
Passing game

8th possession
Houston Texans at 12:41
1-10-HOU22 (12:41) D.Carr pass short right to E.Moulds to HST 30 for 8 yards (M.McCoy; R.Hood).
2-2-HOU30 (12:17) W.Lundy up the middle to HST 37 for 7 yards (M.McCoy).
1-10-HOU37 (11:44) D.Carr pass to A.Johnson to 50 for 13 yards (M.McCoy).
1-10-50 (11:25) D.Carr pass incomplete to W.Lundy.
2-10-50 (11:19) D.Carr pass incomplete to J.Putzier.
3-10-50 (11:15) D.Carr scrambles to PHI 34 for 16 yards (S.Considine).
1-10-PHI34 (10:35) D.Carr pass short middle to E.Moulds to PHI 23 for 11 yards (B.Dawkins).
1-10-PHI23 (10:09) W.Lundy right guard to PHI 19 for 4 yards (B.Bunkley).
2-6-PHI19 (9:33) D.Carr pass incomplete short right to J.Putzier (M.Lewis).
3-6-PHI19 (9:26) D.Carr scrambles right end ran ob at PHI 17 for 2 yards (M.Patterson).
4-4-PHI17 (9:00) D.Carr pass incomplete short right to A.Johnson (S.Considine).
Passing game......

Passing game 4, running game 2.

but I'm just making this stuff up..... you can find all playbyplays on nfl.com

thunderkyss
10-04-2006, 12:55 AM
Dude--Kubiak, every OLmen, the RB's, the WR's, etc. have all acknowledged the lack of a running game and how it is lagging the passing game. Whatever--I guess you with your 3.2 yds and a cloud of dust is pretty good and your dysfunctional stop watch which runs at a completely different speed than the one on the game tape know better.

by the way, how long is too long, and how long did it take (on Avg) for their QB to get rid of the ball, and how long (on avg) did it take our QB to get rid of the ball..... using your stopwatch??

thunderkyss
10-04-2006, 01:07 AM
Are you taking into consideration how long did it for their recievers to get open, and how long did it take our recievers to get open?


If they weren't open, Manning would run for the first down, or throw it away.
Mcnabb would run for the first down, make a play downfield, or throw it away.

tsip
10-04-2006, 02:46 AM
Are you taking into consideration how long did it for their recievers to get open, and how long did it take our recievers to get open?

...please,please don't drop a 'needle in the hay stack' and get him started all over again--good thing we don't get charged for our personal use of bandwidth!!!!!!!!

TK_Gamer
10-04-2006, 05:18 AM
and once again someone disects a game out of context of what the other team was doing to us. gee wiz I guess if we mostly passed the ball then any failure or breakdown could be credited to the passing game. oh wait, the other team has a defense, maybe we should credit some of it to them.

Nahhhhh..

TK_Gamer
10-04-2006, 05:22 AM
What is it going to take for you guys to understand that Carr did indeed suck. He is playing better now, because he wasn't playing better before. Kubiak has mentioned that he took David back to square one. He went back to working on his footwork, his technique, and his decision making. He has criticized Carr's play through every game with concern to his consistency in Qtrs 2 & 3.

Everything that Carr has been criticized for by the Haters, are the same things Carr has been criticized for by Kubiak.

So far, the only thing the Haters have been wrong about, was that David will never be any good....... which we may not see one way or the other, until David is in a situation where he should fall apart. Kinda like JakePlummer getting pumelled by the Steelers(??) in the playoffs.. where he reverted to the old Jake, and is still playing like the old Jake.

and once again my whole wordy semi-informative post is ignored and the only point that can be made is Carr sucks. I love it.

I never said Carr was the best thing since peanut butter and jelly, I just think we got a whole lot more pressing problems than our starting QB.

thunderkyss
10-04-2006, 08:47 AM
and once again someone disects a game out of context of what the other team was doing to us. gee wiz I guess if we mostly passed the ball then any failure or breakdown could be credited to the passing game. oh wait, the other team has a defense, maybe we should credit some of it to them.

Nahhhhh..

Either we are beating them with our run game, or not.

Either we are beating them with our passing game, or not.

There isn't anything in any of our games (other than Miami) that should suggest our run game was ineffective. Number of attempts taken into consideration should indicate that we didn't even try to run the football. The production we did get, suggest we should have run the ball more.


11:21 in the third, we are down 21-10..... 11 points.
9 snaps, 3 runs, 3 yards, 2yards(first down), & 11 yards (first down). the running game is doing what it's supposed to do.

Same score, defense did it's job. 5:41 left in the third: incomplete, sack, incomplete..... not one attempt to run. We've got time, The score is manageable,

they score a field goal..... Defense did good, not great. We got the ball with 12:41 left in the game against Philly, down by 2 scores. The run game should still be a viable option to help make up the defecit(sp) and keep McNabb on the sideline. We took 11 offensive snaps, & ran the ball twice. One for 7 yards (on 2nd & 2), and 4 yards (on 1st & 10).

________________________________________________

Indy

In the first Qtr, we had 18 offensive snaps. 9 run plays for 32 yards
none in the first possession.
2 in the second possession. 1 for no gain, and another for 8 yards. The first put us in 2nd & 10 (should be manageable for the passing game) that results in an 8 yard sack, 3rd & 17 we get the 8 yards back. It would have been nice to pick up all 17 on that play, but it shouldn't be considered a failure not to o a running play.

our 3rd possession. 9 snaps. 7 run plays, 24 yards.
WaliLundy fumbles the ball on 1st & 10.
Ron Dayne had a 3 yrd, 8 yrd, 8yrd, 3 yrd runs (4 carries 16 yards)
Lundy had 2 yrd, 2 yrd, 4 yrd fumble...... (3 carries 8 yards)

Luckily our defense gets us the ball back with the same score.

we start the second Qtr down 0-14 @ 11:58
1st possession: 6 snaps 2 runs 11 yards. both runs on 1st & 10, and both picking up 5 yards. an incomplete pass, and an illegal block puts us in 2nd & 20, and we can't get out. PUNT.

OUr D holds them to a field goal..... We get the ball @ 5:57 remaining in the Qtr down 0-17. 9 offensive snaps, 2 run plays for 8 yards.
1st & 10 RonDayne for one yard, 2nd & 9 incomplete to Gado, 3 & 9 Gado for 7 yards....... field goal.

We alloww 10 points on two possessions before we get the ball back in the third. Down 3-27 @ 8:07 in the third.
1st possession...... Run stuffed for no gain, 2 incomplete passes. PUNT

Defense allows another fieldgoal, we are down 3-30 @ 3:12 in the third.
Gado picks up 2 yards on 1st & 10, then 3 yards on a checkdown, then Carr's sacked on 3rd & 5. PUNT.

Our D forces a Punt, we start the 4th Qtr with the same score. 3-30 @ 14:11

1st possession 9 plays. 3 carries for 9 yards, on an 80 yard drive. Touchdown.

2nd Possession 6 plays. 1 run play for 27 yards, plus an 8 yard scamper by David Carr on a 68 yard drive. Touchdown.

3rd Possession 6 plays 61 yards. 1 run for 9 yards.

We were one dimensional after the Colts opened the third Qtr with a touchdown, and we went 3 & out.


I can do the Washington game as well, but why don't you save me the time, and disect these games for us with consideration to what the defense is doing to us.

thunderkyss
10-04-2006, 09:03 AM
If Carr makes it to the pro bowl, and finishes the season with the best QB rating, the most touchdowns and the fewest int's, to some people he will still suck and they will whine next year when we dont take a QB with our first pick.

Since this is the only part I didn't ignore, I'll ignore it now.

we are not a good football team, we never were. which QB we have really has little or nothing to do with it.

Our new head coach has this saying.... as he goes, so does the team. I believe the "he" Kubiak is refering to is our QB

We dont have an oline, and we never have.

Not once has anyone ever disputed this. Not once.

we havent had a secondary since 2004 even then it was average.

Again. The majority here would agree with you. I can't think of anyone off the top of my head who wouldn't.

people say the QB is an easy target for failure and Texans fans have proved that to me.

See here you go making it seem like the QB has done nothing at all to warrant the attention he gets.

now if we won 10 to 12 games a year and made it to the playoffs, I'm pretty sure alot of these whining nitpicking complaints would mysteriously go away, no matter what the stats said about this player or that player.

Is that something exclusive to Houston?? I believe it's the same in N.O., GB, Philadelphia, Minnesota.

I live in Kansas now and it's no different here, the chiefs stunk up the place in their first game and lost in overtime to denver. the fans all said they sucked. they beat the crap out of a terrible 49er team and now they are great. No logic to any of this. I just want the texans to get better, and I think they will, but they have a lot of catching up to do just to become an average team, let alone a great one.

I think we all agree here.

I trust Carr at QB more than I trust mcleon at CB or Greenwood at LB or CC brown at FS, I could go on and on right down the depth chart, david carr is way way down on the list of players that worry me.

Why?? Is Carr the only one on the team capable of getting better??
McLeon & Greenwood were starters on their previous team, & CC Brown has had the same poor coaching David Carr has. The kid tackles well, and covers quite a bit of ground. his head isn't in the game like it should be. But the same can be said about Carr. CC's mistake may cost us a touchdown, but so does Carr's. Only difference, is that CC's mistake will show on the scoreboard, and David's won't as easily.

David Carr is improving as a QB. CC Brown is improving as a DB. Sanders has improved quite a bit as a corner. McLeon is playing at about the level Dunta is right now.

But David Carr's improvment, will help the team look better a lot faster than any of the other guys(with the exception of maybe Sanders. If he learns to catch, we'd be pretty scary on Defense already)

Runner
10-04-2006, 09:50 AM
We have some high energy posters on this board. They can bloviate endlessly.

Vinny
10-04-2006, 09:59 AM
the blah blah blah zone strikes again.

thunderkyss
10-04-2006, 10:10 AM
the blah blah blah zone strikes again.

I know, just when you think it's safe to join in MB discussions, they come along and ruin everything.


Some people.

tsip
10-04-2006, 10:50 AM
We have some high energy posters on this board. They can bloviate endlessly.

...fortunately, not all posters have an endless 'craving' to see their posts take up 90% of every threads content:brickwall

thunderkyss
10-04-2006, 11:06 AM
I guess to some it is fun to just make crud up on the fly.



Dude--Kubiak, every OLmen, the RB's, the WR's, etc. have all acknowledged the lack of a running game and how it is lagging the passing game. Whatever--I guess you with your 3.2 yds and a cloud of dust is pretty good and your dysfunctional stop watch which runs at a completely different speed than the one on the game tape know better.



:tv:



...fortunately, not all posters have an endless 'craving' to see their posts take up 90% of every threads content:brickwall

Forgive me, if I felt provoked, when I shouldn't have.

Forgive me for providing factual evidence for saying the "off-the-wall" things that I say.

Forgive me for providing the reasons I hold the opinions that I have.

Vinny
10-04-2006, 11:12 AM
Forgive me for providing the reasons I hold the opinions that I have.I don't think anyone is doging you for having an opinion. If you stick to what you know I think you would get less heat. Sometimes it seems that you are just making stuff up to argue.

thunderkyss
10-04-2006, 11:20 AM
I don't think anyone is doging you for having an opinion. If you stick to what you know I think you would get less heat. Sometimes it seems that you are just making stuff up to argue.

and so I provide what I think is factual evidence to back up my opinion.... that I did not make up. But there is so much of it, no one wants to read it all, & we get into the blah, blah, blah discussion......

:yawn:

What am I making up?? That our Running game wasn't our Bane in the Washington, Philly, & Indy games?? Playcalling & a poor defense kept our guys off the field more than anything else. We predominately tried to pass the football, and that kept us in trouble, that kept our offense of the field.

We had a bad game against Miami, running the ball against Miami, now people talk like that's been our problem from week 1, and it hasn't.

Vinny
10-04-2006, 11:25 AM
just a general impression. One day you are asking what a will and sam lb is and the next day you imply you may be a player. Inconsistent is your middle name.

texan279
10-04-2006, 11:27 AM
and so I provide what I think is factual evidence to back up my opinion.... that I did not make up. But there is so much of it, no one wants to read it all, & we get into the blah, blah, blah discussion......

:yawn:

What am I making up?? That our Running game wasn't our Bane in the Washington, Philly, & Indy games?? Playcalling & a poor defense kept our guys off the field more than anything else. We predominately tried to pass the football, and that kept us in trouble, that kept our offense of the field.

We had a bad game against Miami, running the ball against Miami, now people talk like that's been our problem from week 1, and it hasn't.

All of the stats you post do not tell the entire story. Our running game has been horrible this season. As a team we are 4th in the NFL with 7 passing TD's, 1st in completion percentage with 73% of our passes completed, and we have 2 WR's ranked in the top 30 in the NFL for receiving yards. As a team we average 3.2 yards per carry, that is pathetic. Our running game has been the problem, I honestly do not know how our passing game has had so much success when we can't run the ball at all.

infantrycak
10-04-2006, 11:32 AM
What am I making up?? That our Running game wasn't our Bane in the Washington, Philly, & Indy games??

(on the running game) “We knew this team would be difficult to run against. They did some things defensively to take our running backs out of the game, and when they do that you know you’re going to have to make some plays in the pocket. We just did not run the ball well, and their defense made it very difficult for us.”

(on Houston ’s offensive live performance) “I thought we started to run the ball better. I’m very encouraged by Ron Dayne and Samkon Gado. We’ve got a long way to go, but they’re going to help us get better as a football team.”

(on the running game) “When you get down 17-0. The run first gets kind of tough and we ran the ball better we just didn’t run it good enough against that group, in my opinion, when I look at the film. We still could have ran it better. I think running the football is the key to winning, it’s not just what we do. Running the football is the key to winning in this league. We won’t waiver from that commitment, no matter how long it takes. We will figure out a way to run it and we’ll stay committed.”

This isn't a problem that just started against Miami--it started against the Eagles prompting such headlines and commentary as:

Offense led by passing game

The Texans’ offense was carried by its’ passing game as Johnson and veteran Eric Moulds combined for 169 receiving yards. Led by quarterback David Carr, the Texans came out ready to play early Sunday. Houston’s offense charged down the field during their first possession reaching the end zone on a Carr to Moulds 25-yard connection.

“The second half was pretty frustrating,” Carr said. “It started off descent, but we really could never get anything going after that. For our offense to work with play action, boots and keeps, we need to start running the ball better.”

All cites from HoustonTexans.com material.

Call me silly but when the coach, my eyes and the stats say the running game is poor--I'm going with it's poor rather than "pretty good."

Geez--now I am taking up bandwidth.

texan279
10-04-2006, 11:34 AM
For our offense to work with play action, boots and keeps, we need to start running the ball better.

Ding ding ding!!!

Texans Horror
10-04-2006, 11:40 AM
Ding ding ding!!!

And for the run game to improve, the o-line needs to improve. It all starts in the trenches.

real
10-04-2006, 11:47 AM
And for the run game to improve, the o-line needs to improve. It all starts in the trenches.

I still don't think our run blocking is that bad...I don't think we have superb run blocking but IMO, its good enough to have atleast an 85yrd a game back...I think it's more on our backs at this point...they've had chances that they just didn't capatalize on...

tsip
10-04-2006, 11:48 AM
Forgive me, if I felt provoked, when I shouldn't have.

Forgive me for providing factual evidence for saying the "off-the-wall" things that I say.

Forgive me for providing the reasons I hold the opinions that I have.

It's not the 'providing' that's the problem--it's the relentless 'redundancy,' the over and over of saying the same thing--once you've said 'it,' try moving on...

thunderkyss
10-04-2006, 11:49 AM
just a general impression. One day you are asking what a will and sam lb is and the next day you imply you may be a player. Inconsistent is your middle name.

neither here nor there, but the one time I mentioned me playing, was as a DE. I never said I was anygood, or that I played very long. just that I did play a little in highschool.

Or are you talking about when I said I might be a particular player that was getting dogged at the time??

Kaiser Toro
10-04-2006, 11:50 AM
Forgive me, if I felt provoked, when I shouldn't have.

Forgive me for providing factual evidence for saying the "off-the-wall" things that I say.

Forgive me for providing the reasons I hold the opinions that I have.

I am sorry TK, I did not see the cry for help. You have been forgiven. I offer you this smilie as a token of forgiveness. :mario:

thunderkyss
10-04-2006, 11:51 AM
All of the stats you post do not tell the entire story. Our running game has been horrible this season. As a team we are 4th in the NFL with 7 passing TD's, 1st in completion percentage with 73% of our passes completed, and we have 2 WR's ranked in the top 30 in the NFL for receiving yards. As a team we average 3.2 yards per carry, that is pathetic. Our running game has been the problem, I honestly do not know how our passing game has had so much success when we can't run the ball at all.

These stats don't tell the whole story.

I'm not giving you stats, I'm showing you the play-by-play. We haven't been trying to run the ball, and when we did against philly, indy, and Washington we we did pretty good. There has been no dedication to the run game, till the miami game when we decided it might be a good idea to keep our defense off the field for more than 3 minutes at a time.

Second Honeymoon
10-04-2006, 12:10 PM
Wow, that was a lot to read. My brain hurts.

Ok, here is my take. Everyone knows we havent run the ball that well. That doesnt necessarily mean our running game sucks, it just means that we havent been too dedicated to establishing the running game.

With the way Carr has been accurate and how he has improved his decision making under Kubes, Kubiak must feel that our best chance to move the ball is via the passing game..and with our current OL injuries and lack of quality RB talent, he is probably right in thinking so.

Does this mean our running game has been giving a fair shot? No. What it does mean is that we feel more comfortable with our passing game, and as much as I like smashmouth football, we arent currently outfitted to play that game effectively imho.

TK, I appreciate your passion and your dedication to facts. I understand everythign you are saying, but it's all about the direction the coaches want to go, and currently Kubes is more comfortable with the passing game. To be honest, not many teams have been running the ball that well this year. It's a QB year so far.

Doug from the woodlands

thunderkyss
10-04-2006, 12:13 PM
This isn't a problem that just started against Miami--it started against the Eagles prompting such headlines and commentary as:



All cites from HoustonTexans.com material.

Call me silly but when the coach, my eyes and the stats say the running game is poor--I'm going with it's poor rather than "pretty good."

Geez--now I am taking up bandwidth.

you're right. you all are. I don't know what I'm thinking.

I'll go back and rewatch all the games this week, and find examples that I can find with my own eyes that prove a commitment to run the ball in the philly game, and a failure to run the ball in that game. Because it is not showing up in the play by play for that game, the indy game, or the Washington game. We ran the ball well, the run game(with the exception of one penalty) did not put us in third & long situations.

In the second half of the Philly game, we took 23 snaps. we only ran the ball 5 times. less than 25% of the offensive snaps, with our first possession starting with 11:21 left in the third Qtr. Those runs... 3 were for 1st downs, a 2 yarder, an 11 yarder, and a 7 yard gain. The Other two, a 3 yarder & a 4 yard run on 1st & 10. What exactly is the defense doing to stop these runs??

It was the same for our other games, except the score might have gotten out of hand a little faster. the first QTr against Indy, we run the ball well... very well. 9 carries, 32 yards

The second Qtr..... we take 15 offensive snaps. & run the ball 4 times, gaining 19 yards. The first two are in the first possession of the second Qtr.. on 1st & 10, both go for 5 yards. In the second Qtr, we have one play stopped for 1 yard, then the second run for 7 yards. That second run came on a 3rd & 17.

After that, the game gets even more out of hand, and running the ball becomes an even smaller part of the offense from a playcalling perspective. Not a lack of production.

thunderkyss
10-04-2006, 12:17 PM
Wow, that was a lot to read. My brain hurts.

Ok, here is my take. Everyone knows we havent run the ball that well. That doesnt necessarily mean our running game sucks, it just means that we havent been too dedicated to establishing the running game.

With the way Carr has been accurate and how he has improved his decision making under Kubes, Kubiak must feel that our best chance to move the ball is via the passing game..and with our current OL injuries and lack of quality RB talent, he is probably right in thinking so.

Does this mean our running game has been giving a fair shot? No. What it does mean is that we feel more comfortable with our passing game, and as much as I like smashmouth football, we arent currently outfitted to play that game effectively imho.

TK, I appreciate your passion and your dedication to facts. I understand everythign you are saying, but it's all about the direction the coaches want to go, and currently Kubes is more comfortable with the passing game. To be honest, not many teams have been running the ball that well this year. It's a QB year so far.

Doug from the woodlands

I don't have a problem with that at all. I've even tried to use these same facts in discussions begging Kubiak to be a more pass oriented team.

We've been pretty pass oriented already, and while we are generating points out of the passing game, it isn't helping our defense any on our less successful drives.

real
10-04-2006, 12:20 PM
against Indy, we run the ball well... very well. 9 carries, 32 yards


I think there in lies the problem...your very well seems to be sub-par to most...9 carries for 32 yards is less than 4 yards per carry...To me that is poor...not very poor...but poor

thunderkyss
10-04-2006, 12:29 PM
I think there in lies the problem...your very well seems to be sub-par to most...9 carries for 32 yards is less than 4 yards per carry...To me that is poor...not very poor...but poor

No, we're thinking the same way. But you have to see those runs. That was only the first Qtr, 4 of those went for 8 yards, some of the smaller runs were crucial in picking up the first downs. there was one play we didn't get anything out of, and the fumble after a good 4 yard chunk by Lundi. & that's another thing. Lundy wasn't doing very well, and we should have stayed with Dayne.

real
10-04-2006, 12:42 PM
No, we're thinking the same way. But you have to see those runs. That was only the first Qtr, 4 of those went for 8 yards, some of the smaller runs were crucial in picking up the first downs. there was one play we didn't get anything out of, and the fumble after a good 4 yard chunk by Lundi. & that's another thing. Lundy wasn't doing very well, and we should have stayed with Dayne.

Thats fair...I don't recall specific plays and stats are misleading anyways....

jerek
10-04-2006, 01:43 PM
Wow, that was a lot to read. My brain hurts.

Ok, here is my take. Everyone knows we havent run the ball that well. That doesnt necessarily mean our running game sucks, it just means that we havent been too dedicated to establishing the running game.

With the way Carr has been accurate and how he has improved his decision making under Kubes, Kubiak must feel that our best chance to move the ball is via the passing game..and with our current OL injuries and lack of quality RB talent, he is probably right in thinking so.

Does this mean our running game has been giving a fair shot? No. What it does mean is that we feel more comfortable with our passing game, and as much as I like smashmouth football, we arent currently outfitted to play that game effectively imho.

TK, I appreciate your passion and your dedication to facts. I understand everythign you are saying, but it's all about the direction the coaches want to go, and currently Kubes is more comfortable with the passing game. To be honest, not many teams have been running the ball that well this year. It's a QB year so far.

Doug from the woodlands

I think we've been "dedicated" -- we've just abandoned the run attack (in the form of an ingame adjustment) because it hasn't amounted to squat yet. We have zero open field speed and 3 YPC just isn't going to get it done. Does anybody sincerely believe Ron Dayne is anything more than a just-barely-good-enough-until-we-find-someone-better back? We traded IMO our best back for Gado who has looked good in times past in limited scenarios but has been very inconsistent so far. Both lack big speed and agility and struggle to hit the hole quickly if they get there at all. In reviewing tape there have been times where the O-line clearly failed to open the hole or missed an assignment but more often than not it is our backs that just don't get to the open lane.

I think you are right that Kubes is more comfortable passing but only because to date that's been more effective. I think Kubiak's goal is always to run the ball well -- it's an obvious trait over the last ten years or so at Denver -- but right now our failure to do so is an indictment against our HBs moreso than the playcalling or the O-line.

tsip
10-04-2006, 02:44 PM
Kubiak was very specific about his take/vision on the running game in his post game comments. First, 30+ carries a game is his goal, whether running is getting desired results or not. Second, he and the coaches have got to find away to get those desired results. Saying that, though, he was adamant about what the running game does for TOP. Winning the TOP 'battle' will keep our offense on the field/theirs off and our defense off/theirs on. Of course, that all sounds good but he knows that is all a waste of time if the 'ultimate' translation is not scoring points.

Headlights of a Carr
10-04-2006, 08:36 PM
...................

Cgold
10-04-2006, 08:40 PM
your right.. the head coaches, and all the national media and anyone in football dont know what they are talkin about when they say we have no running game..
its actually the passing thats caused our losses.......:shocked
:blah:

thunderkyss
10-04-2006, 08:54 PM
your right.. the head coaches, and all the national media and anyone in football dont know what they are talkin about when they say we have no running game..
its actually the passing thats caused our losses.......:shocked
:blah:

Look..... I posted the play by plays, find in there a series where the run game did less than what it was supposed to okay??

Try to find something other than They said it, so it must be true.

texan279
10-04-2006, 09:03 PM
Look..... I posted the play by plays, find in there a series where the run game did less than what it was supposed to okay??

Try to find something other than They said it, so it must be true.

How do we know what exactly the run game is "supposed to do"? Carr has thrown for 7 TD's and ran for one TD and thrown for 865 yards. Our combined running game, including Carr, has rushed for 304 yards and ONE TD, which was Carr's bootleg. Take out Carr's rushing yards and our backs have rushed for 268 yards in four games, that is less than 65 yards a game from our backs which is horrible.

Cgold
10-04-2006, 09:09 PM
well if people alot smarter then us making the decisions seem to think that we can not run the ball effectively im going to have to go with them.. we shuffle 3 rbs around because we do not have a #1 running back on our team.. even in a win we had no running game. ron dayne ran 22 times!!! you think maybe he got enough chances.. 58 yards...
lets go one game before, 58 yards...
the one before again.. 37,36,and 25 between 3 rbs.. now its pretty clear what part of the offense didnt hold up its part, considering our passer is #1.

that play by play one game is so one dimensional to what is really going on in these games..

problem number 1.. was Defense for sure... which then results in to many points for the opposing team...
number 2. we cant run the ball effectively and we cant even commit to it even if it was succesful because we can not score quickly enough to catch up on points.. which results in defenses not having to even focus on anything outside of passing the rest of the game.. and despite that the passing game continues to be the bright spot of this team..its not perfect but you cant tell me that the running game, special teams, OL or D has been been the more effective part of this team

Napa Auto Parts
10-04-2006, 09:26 PM
I finally went to a game i figured i would go see ronnie brown run all over the texans since i got him on my fantasy team i was very surprised we won David had a good game. i felt like a DumbA** i took my Kroger paper bag but i was glad i wasnt allowed to use it since we played a pretty decent game.

i had no idea the dolphins are as bad as they play whats with the Shotgun formation every single drive well 97 percent of the game out of the shotgun.

thunderkyss
10-04-2006, 09:37 PM
How do we know what exactly the run game is "supposed to do"? Carr has thrown for 7 TD's and ran for one TD and thrown for 865 yards. Our combined running game, including Carr, has rushed for 304 yards and ONE TD, which was Carr's bootleg. Take out Carr's rushing yards and our backs have rushed for 268 yards in four games, that is less than 65 yards a game from our backs which is horrible.

Keep us out of third & Long, and get first downs when we are in third & short. & Keep us on the field.

Other than the Miami game, we only had one short yardage situation, where we did not pick up the 1st down.

the stats you are showing do not tell what happened in the games. Miami, yes. we did terrible in that game.

But against Washington, when our Defense gave us the ball twice with a score of 14-7, we couldn't sustain a drive, mainly due to penalties, and failures in the passing game. These failures are the failures Kubiak is talking about when he says he needs our QB to perform for 4 Qtrs the way he does in the first & 4th. I'm not blaming David for the incomplete passes. I do remember a few drops, & I know our offensive line has not done a good job of protcting him. we even fumbled the ball.

But we got several 3 yard, 4 yard, even 8 yard runs..... then SamkonGado had the big 27 yard run. But we never made a commitment to run the ball. Even before the game was out of hand.

The runningbacks we had on the team against Philly weren't even on the active roster against Miami.. neither of them.

Against Indy, our feature back had only been a Texan for 2 weeks. & against Washington, he was our Senior running back.

Until Miami, neither back had enough carries to say we committed to the run game. Part of that was because of the score, but that doesn't explain the playcalling.

Check the play by play, & use your judgement, tell me where(wich series) our pathetic run game forced us to punt the ball away, or ended our drive. Be as liberal as you like.

tsip
10-04-2006, 10:10 PM
"Keep us out of third & Long, and get first downs when we are in third & short. & Keep us on the field."

We are 29th in the league in 3rd down conversions. When has the rush kept us out of 3rd and long or gotten us 1st downs?

thunderkyss
10-04-2006, 10:11 PM
well if people alot smarter then us making the decisions seem to think that we can not run the ball effectively im going to have to go with them.. we shuffle 3 rbs around because we do not have a #1 running back on our team.. even in a win we had no running game. ron dayne ran 22 times!!! you think maybe he got enough chances.. 58 yards...
lets go one game before, 58 yards...
the one before again.. 37,36,and 25 between 3 rbs.. now its pretty clear what part of the offense didnt hold up its part, considering our passer is #1.

Have you seen JamalLewis's line?? Last Sunday, he carried the ball 15 times, for a wopping 34 yards...... 2.3yrd/carry

Against Philladelphia, TikiBarber ran the ball 21 times for 51 yards, 2.4yrd/carry

Edgerrin James is avg 3.1 yards for the year.

that play by play one game is so one dimensional to what is really going on in these games..

What?? we gave the ball to our running backs..... they produced..... we didn't go to them enough, not because of what the defense is doing to us. Because of poor play calling, and poor game management.

problem number 1.. was Defense for sure... which then results in to many points for the opposing team...


You ever see the movie "Wag the Dog" they'll give you something easy to grab onto, and let you gnaw on it to draw attention away from what was really going on.......

We went down by two scores early in the Indy game, because our offense couldn't hold on to the ball. Their first possesion started on our 16 yard line. What did you expect the defense to do??

Their second possession started on their 37....... Their third possession started on their 19, after we drove down the field only to fumble it on their 19. This drive was actually our longest drive. 9 snaps, 7 runs, 2 passes. RonDayne carried the ball 4 times, for 16 yards. But instead of just giving him the ball, we put WaliLundy in the game, who runs for 8 yards on 4 carries, which includes the fumble.

Indy drives from their 19, into our endzone. But our defense forces a fumble inches before the goal line, preventing them from scoring.

The score is still 14-0 Indy.

Our offense gets the ball, Dayne carries the ball twice, for 11 yards. But a chop block in the passing game sets us back 15 yards. after which, we complete a 4 yard pass putting us at 3rd & 16. we then can't complete a pass for 5 yards....... why are we throwing a 5 yard pass to a TE coming out of the backfield on 3rd & 16??

Punt.

So far, our Defense is playing a fair game. our running game is performing well. only one part of our team at this point appears to be a complete failure.

the run game, and our defense is the only reason we are still in this game at this point.


number 2. we cant run the ball effectively and we cant even commit to it even if it was succesful because we can not score quickly enough to catch up on points.. which results in defenses not having to even focus on anything outside of passing the rest of the game.. and despite that the passing game continues to be the bright spot of this team..its not perfect but you cant tell me that the running game, special teams, OL or D has been been the more effective part of this team

Back to top.

thunderkyss
10-04-2006, 10:16 PM
"Keep us out of third & Long, and get first downs when we are in third & short. & Keep us on the field."

We are 29th in the league in 3rd down conversions. When has the rush kept us out of 3rd and long or gotten us 1st downs?

It's all in the play by play.

infantrycak
10-04-2006, 11:48 PM
We are 29th in the league in 3rd down conversions. When has the rush kept us out of 3rd and long or gotten us 1st downs?

Actually to make your point more poignant no we are not by a long shot. The Texans are tied for 4th in the league for 3rd down conversion % mainly on the back of a passing game which has gotten 11 1st downs on 21 attempts for an average attempt of over 10 yds. If the rushing game can get that down to less than 3rd and 5 more regularly...

texan279
10-05-2006, 12:13 AM
It's all in the play by play.

Out of 73 1st downs we have made in our first four games, only 19 have come from the running game while 46 have come from the passing game. As a team we are averaging 3.2 yards per carry, as a team we have 304 rushing yards in 4 games, as a team we have scored 8 TD's, 7 have come from the passing game, and one from the running game, and that was on Carr's bootleg.

michaelm
10-05-2006, 12:35 AM
You know in the Southern Hemisphere this "analysis" would be swirling the other direction down the toilet.

I agree with your sentiment, but the Southern Hemisphere reference is based on myth.

In reality, the Coriolis effect is a few orders of magnitude smaller than other random influences on drain direction, such as the geometry of the sink, toilet, or tub; whether it is flat or tilted; and the direction in which water was initially added to it.

I knew this, but could never have written it so well...
Thank you Wikipedia, you are my friend, and here is your credit...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coriolis_effect

Runner
10-05-2006, 12:43 AM
I agree with your sentiment, but the Southern Hemisphere reference is based on myth.



Now why did you have to go and shatter that myth? Everyone knows you are wrong - even though you are correct.

However, I would give the original post poetic license. It was on of the most concise, eloquent, and picturesque descriptions of sophism I have ever seen.

tsip
10-05-2006, 01:59 AM
It's all in the play by play.


...of course, sure it is:pigfly: :hides:

thunderkyss
10-05-2006, 06:35 AM
Out of 73 1st downs we have made in our first four games, only 19 have come from the running game while 46 have come from the passing game. As a team we are averaging 3.2 yards per carry, as a team we have 304 rushing yards in 4 games, as a team we have scored 8 TD's, 7 have come from the passing game, and one from the running game, and that was on Carr's bootleg.

OK. how many attempts have we made to run the ball compared to how many times have we tried to pass the ball.

& our avg ypc is misleading, because we have not continued to run the ball when we were successfull, and tried to force the run when we weren't successful.

Passing the ball is fine. This isn't a Pass vs the run competition. We haven't ran the ball, not because we haven't been able to, just because we didn't. Miami is the only game we were not able to run, and we tried to force it.

RonDayne was doing very well against Indy & Washington. Lundy did fine in Philly. They would have produced more, if we gave them the ball more.

I understand what the coaches are saying. I don't understand why they are saying it. Because rewatching the games, and going over the play by play does not support what the coaches have been saying.

tsip
10-05-2006, 07:55 AM
Actually to make your point more poignant no we are not by a long shot. The Texans are tied for 4th in the league for 3rd down conversion % mainly on the back of a passing game which has gotten 11 1st downs on 21 attempts for an average attempt of over 10 yds. If the rushing game can get that down to less than 3rd and 5 more regularly...

http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/OFF-TOTAL/2006/regular?sort_col_1=7

...sorry, I was looking at this chart that says 3rd down conversions at the top but is actually a ranking of yds per game (where we are 29th)-not a ranking of where we stand in 3rd down conversions

thunderkyss
10-05-2006, 08:31 AM
...of course, sure it is:pigfly: :hides:



Ok, Read This (http://forums.houstontexans.com/showpost.php?p=460859&postcount=194)

Or this (http://forums.houstontexans.com/showpost.php?p=460921&postcount=203)

thunderkyss
10-05-2006, 08:33 AM
Actually to make your point more poignant no we are not by a long shot. The Texans are tied for 4th in the league for 3rd down conversion % mainly on the back of a passing game which has gotten 11 1st downs on 21 attempts for an average attempt of over 10 yds. If the rushing game can get that down to less than 3rd and 5 more regularly...

It's only been over a 10 yard avg because of sacks & penalties.. not because of failure of the run game.

texan279
10-05-2006, 09:36 AM
OK. how many attempts have we made to run the ball compared to how many times have we tried to pass the ball.

& our avg ypc is misleading, because we have not continued to run the ball when we were successfull, and tried to force the run when we weren't successful.

Passing the ball is fine. This isn't a Pass vs the run competition. We haven't ran the ball, not because we haven't been able to, just because we didn't. Miami is the only game we were not able to run, and we tried to force it.

RonDayne was doing very well against Indy & Washington. Lundy did fine in Philly. They would have produced more, if we gave them the ball more.

I understand what the coaches are saying. I don't understand why they are saying it. Because rewatching the games, and going over the play by play does not support what the coaches have been saying.

Out of 94 rushing plays, we have made 19 1st downs, or 20% of our running plays have been for 1st downs. Out of 111 pass attempts, we have made 46 1st downs, or 41% of our passing plays have been for a 1st down. Dayne had 11 carries for 37 yards against Indy for 3.4 yards per carry and 14 carries for 58 yards against Washington for just over 4 yards per carry. Lundy had 11 carrries against Philly for 32 yards, that is less than three yards per carry. That's not "very well" IMO. Basically what I am getting from you is if we give Dayne, Gado, or Lundy the ball 40-50 times a game they could maybe get 100 yards rushing. But why should we give them the ball more? When they do get the ball the can't get anything done.

SESupergenius
10-05-2006, 10:40 AM
That is a truly telling stat considering that the passing game has been our worst aspect of the team over the years. We now have started to put that together and need the running game to take us to the next level. When the cold weather starts coming in, we will need our running game more and more so we'd better start to get that going. It seems that the line has lost it's edginess from the preseason when they ran the ball so well.

thunderkyss
10-05-2006, 11:28 AM
First two plays of the Indy game
Quote:
Houston Texans at 14:53
1-10-HOU25 (14:53) D.Carr sacked at HST 17 for -8 yards (R.Mathis).
Indianapolis Colts at 14:20
2-18-IND16 (14:20) D.Carr FUMBLES (Aborted) at HST 16, RECOVERED by IND-R.Brock at HST 16. R.Brock to HST 16 for no gain (D.Carr).
second possesion of the Indy game
Quote:
Houston Texans at 12:43
1-10-HOU24 (12:43) W.Lundy left tackle to HST 24 for no gain (G.Brackett, R.Mathis).
2-10-HOU24 (12:04) D.Carr sacked at HST 16 for -8 yards (R.Mathis). FUMBLES (R.Mathis), recovered by HST-Z.Wiegert at HST 17. Z.Wiegert to HST 17 for no gain (C.June). Minus 8 sack yards.
3-17-HOU17 (11:25) W.Lundy left tackle to HST 25 for 8 yards (G.Brackett, M.Jackson).
4-9-HOU25 (10:56) C.Stanley punts 38 yards to IND 37, Center-B.Pittman, fair catch by T.Wilkins.
Unless Carr gets sacked while handing the ball off, I consider that part of the passing game.

Okay...... I don't want to eat up bandwidth again. so I'll cut it short. In these two possessions...... Lundy had 2 carries. ONe for no gain, the other for 8 yards, 4 ypc. Do you think having to punt on that possession was due to the failure of the run game?? Yes, or no...... you can explain your answer if you want, but it isn't necessary.

texan279
10-05-2006, 11:55 AM
Okay...... I don't want to eat up bandwidth again. so I'll cut it short. In these two possessions...... Lundy had 2 carries. ONe for no gain, the other for 8 yards, 4 ypc. Do you think having to punt on that possession was due to the failure of the run game?? Yes, or no...... you can explain your answer if you want, but it isn't necessary.

You can't take the two carries he had in one drive and average them out. He had zero yards on his first carry which puts us in second and long, had he picked up even 3 or 4 yards it puts us at 2nd and 6 or 7 instead of 2nd and 10. And getting zero yards on one carry I do consider a failure.