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View Full Version : RB Problems....


PapaL
10-01-2006, 04:05 PM
I think its pretty obvious that we have a major issue on offense and its our RB play. They have all run the ball horrible. They did step up and have some good blocks on passing plays, but running the ball has been BAD.

Rushing stats this week: 33 rushes for 65 yards 2.0 avg.
Previous 3 weeks: 61 rushes for 239 yards 3.9 avg.

On the season: 94 rushes 304 yards 3.23 avg

mancunian
10-01-2006, 04:07 PM
I think its pretty obvious that we have a major issue on offense and its our RB play. They have all run the ball horrible. They did step up and have some good blocks on passing plays, but running the ball has been BAD.
sure has, but why has it been so chronic. Is it the scheme or is it the players are just not good enough. Lets hope DD is back to full fitness next year or we could be drafting a RB in April

Grid
10-01-2006, 04:07 PM
it hasnt been horrible. They did get stuffed alot though.

Honestly.. we won the game.. if we get 50 rushing yards the rest of the season and win games.. im not going to complain.

PapaL
10-01-2006, 04:16 PM
We're not going to be winning very man more games if we can't run the ball. If it wasnt for Carr and the WideOuts, we'd be 0-4. For a running team, we don't scare anyone. Best believe teams will start scheming against our passing game.

LBC_Justin
10-01-2006, 04:16 PM
For the next 48 hours, I plan on being happy and enjoying the victory. Personally I don't know when the next one will come, so I am going to savor this moment before I stant knocking the team down.

VICTORY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Texas
10-01-2006, 04:18 PM
We will get our run game going eventually...We just dont have any players that pickup long runs...its more short definite runs.

threetoedpete
10-01-2006, 04:21 PM
Gold stars for sherman and the make shift o-line. Wasn't perfect. But it was good enough. Nice job.

Snapple
10-01-2006, 04:29 PM
Gold stars for sherman and the make shift o-line. Wasn't perfect. But it was good enough. Nice job.

It was good enough to beat the Dolphins, but it wasn't good.

Can't run block, and can't keep Carr from getting blindsided.

I'm happy we got the win, but I'm still not satisfied with our blocking in the slightest.

texflex513
10-01-2006, 04:32 PM
I think they will work on it during the bye week, and I think it is more a factor of their run-blocking then the RB's.
Agreed our backs are fine its the blocking that has to improve.

Runner
10-01-2006, 04:33 PM
It was good enough to beat the Dolphins, but it wasn't good.

Can't run block, and can't keep Carr from getting blindsided.

I'm happy we got the win, but I'm still not satisfied with our blocking in the slightest.

The play of the inside of our line is weak, and we have a major problem at left tackle. Carr got a lot of pressure from the left, and that is on top of the sacks and the hits as he threw.

afcman
10-01-2006, 04:34 PM
I think it is more a factor of their run-blocking then the RB's.

Ditto. (And Legend is a great movie!)

Scooter
10-01-2006, 04:35 PM
It was good enough to beat the Dolphins, but it wasn't good.

Can't run block, and can't keep Carr from getting blindsided.

I'm happy we got the win, but I'm still not satisfied with our blocking in the slightest.

i completely agree, our blocking is as bad as it's ever been. the difference this year is coaching. count the number of tackles that ron dayne breaks on every play, and the number of times carr is hit as he's throwing. those two guys are playing as hard as anybody in football and being successful. kubiak's getting every ounce he can from that line and it's a hair's breathe from being disastrous. congrats to the offense for gutting it out all day and getting the win, but it's obvious that our biggest (probably ONLY) problem on offense is still that line. i look forward to next season when we get spencer back, flanagan with a year here under his belt, and some replacements for that right side.

phan1
10-01-2006, 05:04 PM
I'm officially wrong about Dayne and am gald he's a Texan. Right now, he is really the only guy on our roster who can run in this zone blocking scheme. He's not great of probably even good. But he knows where to run, wheras our other RBs don't.

But our running game has to get better overall. That Oline just isn't getting it done.

sleepwalker
10-01-2006, 05:11 PM
Carr's playfake touchdown score was AWSOME !!! I stood up and screamed *OWNED!!!!*

A big reason that play worked was because of the threat of the run...We didnt run the ball terribly well, but it was enough to get the job done...I like the way Dayne runs over people and he's a pretty good blocker...Losing DD this season really hurt this offence, but they have done a good job filling his shoes with some power runners who can block and catch.

ericdoesntcare
10-01-2006, 05:14 PM
No blocking and Slow running backs... that is 2 huge problems.

Runner
10-01-2006, 05:42 PM
I'm officially wrong about Dayne and am gald he's a Texan. Right now, he is really the only guy on our roster who can run in this zone blocking scheme. He's not great of probably even good. But he knows where to run, wheras our other RBs don't.


I might say "he is really the only guy left on our roster who can run in this zone blocking scheme".

I am still not convinced we made a lot of good moves with our running backs after training camp.

Texans_Chick
10-01-2006, 05:50 PM
I am wondering some about the hybrid Denver style zone block mixed with the Green Bay Power I stuff.

Part of the effectiveness Denver blocking is that the running from that is supposed to set up the pass because the blocking always looks the same.

Hmmm.

I do not like our options at left tackle. I do not like Eric Winston not being activated when it is Salaam and Bedell. Just from what I saw at the game, and not watching the TV stuff, the left side looks non-good.

I liked Seth Wand more in the preseason, you know, back when they could run the ball.

YRMV

Scooter
10-01-2006, 06:01 PM
I liked Seth Wand more in the preseason, you know, back when they could run the ball.

seth wand (to me atleast) looked like he picked up the ZBS that kubiak runs quicker than any other linemen. we ran the ball more effectively to the left side during preseason when he was in the game than we did with spencer. he's also a lot quicker than our other options and can pick off linebackers effectively. he'd be a major upgrade over salaam, and bedell is lucky to be on a team at all.

GP
10-01-2006, 06:13 PM
If Dayne gets past the line of scrimmage, he's a force.

I noticed this today. If he gets to, or past, the line of scrimmage...and without getting his feet tangled up with blockers or d linemen...he is good for about 5 yards every time. The momentum he builds is amazing.

So while it is frustrating to sometimes see him take a nosedive for one-yard gains, you gotta' think about the times he gets free of the line of scrimmage and has flat out carried defenders or bulldozed them for extra yards.

DD would pick his way around and get all "choppy" for the extra yards, but Dayne is a different creature.

And Gado is nowhere to be seen. Gonna' take awhile to get used to the playbook, or an injury to Dayne, for him to sniff carries IMO.

blockhead83
10-01-2006, 06:16 PM
We need to find a better RB this next off-season for sure, but our run blocking has been pretty shiesty as well. It's going to take a while for this group to gel and really pick up this zone blocking scheme. The sooner the better. I think we'll have a decent running game in place by the end of the year.

Mr. White
10-01-2006, 06:18 PM
One thing that I really like about Dayne is that when he gets tackled, he manages to fall forward and get an extra yard.

dantem
10-01-2006, 06:20 PM
I think they will work on it during the bye week, and I think it is more a factor of their run-blocking then the RB's.

I agree

Runner
10-01-2006, 06:22 PM
I am wondering some about the hybrid Denver style zone block mixed with the Green Bay Power I stuff.



Our zone blocking scheme looked different in pre-season (to me anyway). It looked like the line would just flow left or right, and keep on flowing throughout the play. This is very Denver like, I think.

The way they are playing now is the line starts to flow one direction, but as the play develops the lineman are supposed to square up their blocks and push the d-lineman back perpendicular to the line of scrimmage.. This "squaring up" is the integration of the Green Bay power style.

dantem
10-01-2006, 06:29 PM
Edell Shepherd had our best run today. The Carr Funmble play was a fake to the RB and then David got stripped of the ball, But the RB that did not get the ball would have been downfield 30 yards had we given it to him. Wierd... All day long no holes to go thrugh, then we do a run fake and our blockers cleared a 10 to 15 foot hole.

I am not a fan of this running scheme, or using the run to open up the passing game. With our players we should use the pass to open up the run game.

Scooter
10-01-2006, 06:33 PM
it also hurt dayne's stats that his carry early in the game where he carried 21 players, a waterboy, 2 towel boys, and the linebackers coach for 18 yards was called back because of walters' holding penalty. :wild:


wow. walters has been terrible so far.

dat_boy_yec
10-01-2006, 07:32 PM
I gotta say it's on both parties. Really I can't say that the line has been run blocking well, but then again I don't know if that's due to trying to run the ZBS and the power scheme from GB or what. That being said it's not solely the lines fault, I saw various times that the RB had a hole nearby and didn't see it or get through it. So our RB's need to work on finding the hole better before hitting it. I like Dayne's power running, but if he had a little more patience and used that explosiveness through a better hole instead of trying to squeeze through cracks that would be great.

On a side note, I think they should stick to one running scheme instead of trying to run two schemes. I think this would benefit everybody.

ravinaznt
10-01-2006, 08:00 PM
bring back lundy and give him a second chance!!!!

ravinaznt
10-01-2006, 08:02 PM
I gotta say it's on both parties. Really I can't say that the line has been run blocking well, but then again I don't know if that's due to trying to run the ZBS and the power scheme from GB or what. That being said it's not solely the lines fault, I saw various times that the RB had a hole nearby and didn't see it or get through it. So our RB's need to work on finding the hole better before hitting it. I like Dayne's power running, but if he had a little more patience and used that explosiveness through a better hole instead of trying to squeeze through cracks that would be great.

On a side note, I think they should stick to one running scheme instead of trying to run two schemes. I think this would benefit everybody.
give lundy a second chance and bring him back!!

dat_boy_yec
10-01-2006, 08:13 PM
give lundy a second chance and bring him back!!

I agree, let them share the load. Like somebody said they would. :poker:

infantrycak
10-01-2006, 08:34 PM
Where is thunderkyss and his "the running game has been pretty good" now? Sucked then, sucks now.

Texans_Chick
10-01-2006, 09:11 PM
What I find interesting is that we got Dayne and Gado because the coaches thought that we had too many similiar runners in the preseason.

I think Dayne/Gado seem a little too similiar, but maybe it is because it is hard to distinguish your running style if it mostly involves bouncing off the wall at the line.

I know Denver doesn't do too much of this, but does anyone recall any runs to the outside? If the defense doesn't think we do that, then they don't have to defend it.

And it was an interesting theory to suggest that Carr shows run or pass based on his feet positioning prior to the snap. I need to look for that on the TiVO.

Texans86
10-01-2006, 10:14 PM
Is Chris Taylor still on the Practice Squad. I wonder if he'll ever get another look. Of course if Lundy can't find any carries, I guess Taylor won't either. One thing about this coaching staff, they seem to stick with what they have until something breaks, even if it doesn't seem to be working.

JDizzle
10-01-2006, 10:25 PM
Ron Dayne is not a starter. Period. He missed cutback after cutback today, and it was pretty annoying from where I was sitting because those lanes were pretty wide. Gado could have been in there a few plays where I thought it was Dayne, those two are hard to tell apart from the nosebleeds.

The Gado trade isn't looking too good so far, even though Morency hasn't had much of a shot in GB, but I thought he was improving in Kubiak's system. Now we are stuck with Redd Fox. Stinkage.

PapaL
10-01-2006, 10:43 PM
The only option we really have is wait til after the bye week and wait till next year. Hopefully we can iron out some blocking issues which would maximize the limited RB talent, IMO, we currently have. If Dayne and Gado keep missing holes, I bet Lundy gets back into the mix.

nunusguy
10-01-2006, 10:49 PM
Dayne runs with some power. He isn't awesome, or anything like that, but
I'd heard that he had no power running inside, was a cream puff for such a
big back. But I saw some efforts where he ran with decent strength.

PapaL
10-01-2006, 10:53 PM
Dayne runs with some power. He isn't awesome, or anything like that, but
I'd heard that he had no power running inside, was a cream puff for such a
big back. But I saw some efforts where he ran with decent strength.

One of the things that bother me, and most others, with Dayne is consistency. He can, at times, carry people; but then at times trip at the LOS. Today towards the end of the game when we needed that power back, he looked slow, tired, and couldn't get the push for first downs. I know some of it was on the OLine, but come on...make a play when your team needs you.

Anguyen
10-01-2006, 11:06 PM
sure has, but why has it been so chronic. Is it the scheme or is it the players are just not good enough. Lets hope DD is back to full fitness next year or we could be drafting a RB in April
I wouldn't count on DD coming back next year. His career is over.
It time for Andre Perterson.:bananasplit:

bigbrewster2000
10-01-2006, 11:39 PM
I wouldn't count on DD coming back next year. His career is over.
It time for Andre Perterson.:bananasplit:

Do you mean Adrian Peterson?

Koolbrz
10-01-2006, 11:59 PM
Ron Dayne is not a starter. Period. He missed cutback after cutback today, and it was pretty annoying from where I was sitting because those lanes were pretty wide. Gado could have been in there a few plays where I thought it was Dayne, those two are hard to tell apart from the nosebleeds.

The Gado trade isn't looking too good so far, even though Morency hasn't had much of a shot in GB, but I thought he was improving in Kubiak's system. Now we are stuck with Redd Fox. Stinkage.


I so agree with you dude, the Gado trade was a bad one and Dayne IMO is not going to cut it. This is his 3rd team in three yrs. if i'm correct. Was never a full time starter with the Giants or Broncos. IMO Morency would probably have done a better job if given the chance. What happened to Lundy?? Riding the pine by the looks of it.

mexican_texan
10-02-2006, 12:03 AM
I want Ryan Moats.

Scooter
10-02-2006, 12:54 AM
nevermind.

Mattheus_Rex
10-02-2006, 12:56 AM
Dayne is a good bruiser, but we need a finesse RB to get the long yards.

K.D.
10-02-2006, 01:06 AM
I still think Gado can have a impact, but the holes just don't seem to be opening up right now. I miss the s##t out of DD.

Mattheus_Rex
10-02-2006, 01:09 AM
Yeah, he's the man for the team, if only he can stay healthy. Holes will come in time. We basically have a whole new team and the line just needs some time to work together.

K.D.
10-02-2006, 01:25 AM
Next draft we need to get a RB, but not in first round, who you think will be available in 2nd and so on. The guy from Rutgers look pretty good.

Mattheus_Rex
10-02-2006, 01:30 AM
Definatly not first round. We need to fix our defensive secondary or it won't matter Jesus is playing RB.

PapaL
10-02-2006, 05:41 AM
Do you mean Adrian Peterson?

He's looking even further into future, Adrian's little brother.

HomeBred_Texan
10-02-2006, 06:35 AM
Next draft we need to get a RB, but not in first round, who you think will be available in 2nd and so on. The guy from Rutgers look pretty good.

Definatly not first round. We need to fix our defensive secondary or it won't matter Jesus is playing RB.

See, this is what makes America great...

I disagree with both of you guys. We need that elite back to make weapons. He will not be found in the 3 or 4th rounds, but the 1st. His name is Adrian Peterson this year. If we keep waiting to "try" and find that "jewel" in later rounds, we will never have the running game we so want. But who am I to say? I wanted De'Angelo Williams last year...

TheOgre
10-02-2006, 07:15 AM
See, this is what makes America great...

I disagree with both of you guys. We need that elite back to make weapons. He will not be found in the 3 or 4th rounds, but the 1st. His name is Adrian Peterson this year. If we keep waiting to "try" and find that "jewel" in later rounds, we will never have the running game we so want. But who am I to say? I wanted De'Angelo Williams last year...

My only thought on this is that we will be about 5-11 and out of the running for Peterson.

thunderkyss
10-02-2006, 07:37 AM
We need to find a better RB this next off-season for sure, but our run blocking has been pretty shiesty as well. It's going to take a while for this group to gel and really pick up this zone blocking scheme. The sooner the better. I think we'll have a decent running game in place by the end of the year.

I bet Miami is saying the same thing.

NewOrleans as well. They've got $60 mill tied up in 2 Runningbacks, and didn't get 50 yards out of either of them.

Stampede
10-02-2006, 07:55 AM
If or when our offensive line improves, people will say gee, Carr is really looking good out there, wow, did you see how Dayne ran the ball today?...jeepers, look at Gado go go go. You can have the best transmission in the world but you wont go very far if the engine breaks down.

dalemurphy
10-02-2006, 08:42 AM
bring back lundy and give him a second chance!!!!


Neither Lundy nor Chris Taylor are likely to see the field again until they have proven that they can pickup the blitz and be solid in pass protection!

HomeBred_Texan
10-02-2006, 09:02 AM
My only thought on this is that we will be about 5-11 and out of the running for Peterson.

Before the season started and I thought we had a decent Defense, I predicted 4/12. Now that I have seen our D play in "real" games, that may be a little high. Yes we beat Miami, but so will allot of other teams. Our hopes lies in the Titans and Raiders. Maybe the Browns. We are still in for a long season and another high draft pick. It may not be the 1st one, but definately in the top 5. I hope I am wrong though.

But until we can field a team that can compete with Indy for the Division, I would rather keep on drafting key players high in the draft and then one day, BAM, we will be right where we want to be. A Contender and not a pretender...

real
10-02-2006, 09:15 AM
I still think Gado can have a impact, but the holes just don't seem to be opening up right now. I miss the s##t out of DD.

The thing I don't like about Gado is that if the hole isn't there, he gets stopped...there is a such thing as a cutback....none of our backs seem to know this...

Crazyhorse
10-02-2006, 09:51 AM
Running back problems start with no push from the o-line . Sherman needs to think about building an o-line for the future not run a retirement camp for Green Bay left overs!! Brad Bedell was horrible when he subed for Salaam. He got got beat every play by Taylor and the fumble caused by his lack of blocking almost cost us the game.
Sherman needs to get over his rookie hang up and get Winston in the game. Watched this kid in preseason enough to know he should be starting. He is more talented than Spencer and Spencer is going to be real good. He definately is better than Bedell. Sherman needs to build our young draft picks and quite this home for aging lineman that are his buds!!!!

HeartofHouston
10-02-2006, 12:33 PM
We could be looking for a RB in april and I don't have a problem with that at all.. it's a couple of backs that could drop from the first round and some even out of the first day..

Tony Hunt (Penn St)
Germaine Race (Pitt St)
Courtney Lewis (Texas A&M)

Runner
10-02-2006, 01:28 PM
Running back problems start with no push from the o-line . Sherman needs to think about building an o-line for the future not run a retirement camp for Green Bay left overs!! Brad Bedell was horrible when he subed for Salaam. He got got beat every play by Taylor and the fumble caused by his lack of blocking almost cost us the game.
Sherman needs to get over his rookie hang up and get Winston in the game. Watched this kid in preseason enough to know he should be starting. He is more talented than Spencer and Spencer is going to be real good. He definately is better than Bedell. Sherman needs to build our young draft picks and quite this home for aging lineman that are his buds!!!!

I think Kubiak has more control of the offensive personnel than you think. You may be barking at the wrong coach.

real
10-02-2006, 01:33 PM
Running back problems start with no push from the o-line .
Sherman needs to get over his rookie hang up and get Winston in the game. Watched this kid in preseason enough to know he should be starting. He is more talented than Spencer and Spencer is going to be real good. He definately is better than Bedell. Sherman needs to build our young draft picks and quite this home for aging lineman that are his buds!!!!

How do "running back problems" stem from the line ?? please explain....

What do you mean by more talented exactly??? When Spencer was healthy he was EASILY better than Winston...

texan279
10-02-2006, 01:35 PM
So many here thought Gado would be the saviour of the running game. I am still miffed about trading Morency.

real
10-02-2006, 01:37 PM
So many here thought Gado would be the saviour of the running game. I am still miffed about trading Morency.

I understand what they were trying to do...but I agree...having Morency as a change of pace guy would be nice right now...

Crazyhorse
10-02-2006, 02:55 PM
Running back problems are attached to the o-line because even Reggie Bush wouldn't run far without blocking. We get little or no push from our 0-line and sustaining a block seems to be a novel idea at best. Why is it Weigert is always one of the first one to help the running backs up off the ground, if you are blocking and sustaining it then you should not be watching the play.
As far as Spencer and Winston go I hope you watched at least 90% of preseason practices and all the preseason games. Winston is quicker off the ball, more experienced in the position(left tackle) and now can handle either side, and has worn Mario into the dirt on many occations. Now I must admit that alot of people have done that too.
My point is that Bedell doesn't hold a candle to either of these guys, and having seen almost all the preseason practices it was very obvious to many of us that Sherman plays favorites all over the field. All you have to do is watch the way he handles the same mistake by two different players.
Bottom line is,without good drive off the line a running game is hard to establish and we aren't getting much push from Sherman's retirement sqad!

texan_fan_in_tampa_bay
10-02-2006, 03:09 PM
My only thought on this is that we will be about 5-11 and out of the running for Peterson.
So how about Kenny Irons?
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=134884

O.G.
10-02-2006, 03:23 PM
So many here thought Gado would be the saviour of the running game. I am still miffed about trading Morency.

Can't be the saviour if you only get 10 carries in 3 games. As for Morency, he had a hard time picking up the block, anticipation wise. That is one of the reasons Lundy isn't playing.

PapaL
10-02-2006, 05:52 PM
There have been cut back lanes, but for one reason our backs can not get to them. Be it penetration, lack of speed, fatigue, or flat out not seeing them (much easier to see them from my sofa). Our newfound passing game needs a descent running to keep the D honest. If we don't fix it this week, its going to get ugly on offense. Who knows, maybe if the D starting thinking we're going to keep passing like we have it'll open the run game. Here's to them out thinking themselves. :texflag:

JDizzle
10-02-2006, 05:55 PM
So many here thought Gado would be the saviour of the running game. I am still miffed about trading Morency.

We should see Morency in action tonight against Philly. Ahman Green is listed as questionable at GB's official site.

texan279
10-02-2006, 05:57 PM
Can't be the saviour if you only get 10 carries in 3 games. As for Morency, he had a hard time picking up the block, anticipation wise. That is one of the reasons Lundy isn't playing.

My point exactly. If he was as great as some here claimed he was or anticipated he would be, he would have more than 10 carries, and surely would be able to beat out Ron Dayne for the starting job.

WhyIsItAlwaysNextYear
10-02-2006, 06:01 PM
"As a season ticketholder for 5 years, I think I deserve that."

Look I have been a season ticket holder since day one as well. I had Oiler tickets from 77' up until they split for Tennesse! Dont be fooled the only thing you have a RIGHT to and or for is to go see the team they put on the field. I dont say it to be rude but look at the draft and look around the league. Owners do what they want when they want and how they want, sure we can dump our seats but that really does not happen very often. Evedn during the Ed Biles days with the Oilers people have a tendency to kkep their seats and just not go.


"My point is, the offense is being coddled, just like what Capers did. Call the best play and if someone screws up, let's go from there."

I would disagree to a point, Kubiak does take the blame for some of the play calling and saying he did not put David in a good position to win, but he also says stats are deceivng and Carr does not play well in all 4 quarters. Capers would never say that! I think their is much more accountability for the offense under Kubiak.

dat_boy_yec
10-02-2006, 10:17 PM
So how about Kenny Irons?
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=134884

Yes man Irons would be a perfect fit in this system. I mean I would love Peterson if we were in a position to get him. Having said that though Irons has great vision. He allows blocks to develop and finds the holes and hits them. Thing is he's a first rd. talent and with all our needs I don't know if our staff would trade up to get him or get him with our pick. I guess it would all depend on where we picked, but Irons is perfect for this team. Also you gotta keep in mind he's piling up all his stats against the SEC.

GP
10-02-2006, 11:10 PM
I bet Miami is saying the same thing.

NewOrleans as well. They've got $60 mill tied up in 2 Runningbacks, and didn't get 50 yards out of either of them.

Ouch.

WhyIsItAlwaysNextYear
10-02-2006, 11:10 PM
Peterson is great I just hope Stoops doesn't wear all the traed off him before he can escape from their program! He is all they have right now and they sure are putting a lot of mileage of him. He will probably be picked before we draft, it would have been nice if we could have made out trade at the end of the first round last year for Maroney. That is unless one of the picks we were offering was Ryans! We can get a back later but Ryans is a rare find.

Cupps
10-03-2006, 02:41 AM
Texans' RBs: 3.2 yards per carry
Reggie Bush: 3.3 yards per carry

Texans' RBs: 0 TDs
Reggie Bush: 0 TDs

Just think, we could be enjoying a whole tenth yard more per carry right now. Oh, if only... :stirpot:

And, for what it's worth, Morency put up 99 yards on 26 carries tonight and added six catches for 19 more. Heh.

I may be playing the homer card here, but I say give it just a little more team. Realize that neither of our top two backs were on the roster until after preseason. :twocents:

Lastly, who had Super Mario getting his first sack before Bush's first touchdown? C'mon now...