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Vinny
10-01-2006, 02:16 PM
We had PLENTY of time to try to score. We just decided to say skroo it and go into the half at 3-3. This is as pathetic as it gets and this is a brutal brand of football. The Dolphins get the ball with .23 seconds and feel they have enough time to score. At least they play some football....we are scrimmaging.

Runner
10-01-2006, 02:19 PM
So, is there any shine left on Kubiak? What away to look like a bunch of losers.

DRAMA
10-01-2006, 02:22 PM
We're certainly playing to hang on. First half and we're already scared to death not to mess up.

Those who play not to mess up - mess up. Let's just do what our coaches are doing...keep our fingers crossed.:yawn:

Texas
10-01-2006, 02:24 PM
They were trying not to mess up because in desperation carr may have thrown a turnover and so if we played it safe we get the ball first 2Half to take lead.

Porky
10-01-2006, 02:26 PM
Someone tell me Capers didn't switch shirts at the 2 min warning. That was absouletely pathetic. Alsmost 2 min and 2 timeouts and we sit on the ball? Unreal. I'm glad that Kubiak didn't promise we would stop that playing not to lose stuff from the old regime. Oh wait, I think he did. :brickwall

Next thing we'll hear is after the game Kubes will say we didn't execute. :shoot:

Huge
10-01-2006, 02:31 PM
1:54 left on the clock with 2 timeouts. That should be enough to gain 50 yards to at least set up a 47 yard FG attempt.

Imagine the meltdown had Miami scored within those final :23.

profan
10-01-2006, 02:31 PM
you guys just cant wait to find something to complain about. you just want to pass, pass, pass, pass, pass. it has been good game calling imo. now i will sit back and wait for the whiners to rip me.

Huge
10-01-2006, 02:36 PM
In a game where points are minimal, you better take advantage of any opportunity you have.

We're talking about a simple 2:00 minute offense. It's pretty standard throughout the league. Even the Titans with a rookie QB today were able to drive down the field in the final 2:00 against Dallas and get a FG today.

Bronco Texan
10-01-2006, 02:40 PM
you guys just cant wait to find something to complain about. you just want to pass, pass, pass, pass, pass. it has been good game calling imo. now i will sit back and wait for the whiners to rip me.

I wont. I'm with you. I guess some people are just too thick headed to realize that we are only 4 games into a new year where we have a new head coach, new systems on both sides of the ball, and very young players starting for this team. Some people are treating this year as if we were slated to go to the super bowl.


WE ARE REBUILDING PEOPLE!!!!

Bronco Texan
10-01-2006, 02:47 PM
What is insulting to me is the fact that people continuely rip this team for anything and everything. Come on where is the good? Why don't we bring up the good sometimes? Instead of threads on how good our D is doing today or just the fact that we are still in this game and moving the ball really well. We get these types of threads.

So please stop insulting me with this trash you guys call a thread.



EDIT: I'm not going to go into an arguement with you here. You have your opinions and I have mine. We have stated them both so lets leave it at that. Thank You.

Grid
10-01-2006, 04:04 PM
There is a time to go balls to the wall and a time to play conservative.

We won the game. According to my understanding, that makes Kubiak's decision to play conservative at the end of the half, the right one.

Vinny
10-01-2006, 04:22 PM
it worked out well...but not taking a shot at scoring with 2 mins left shows no confidence at all (probably justified). I'm not a big fan of playing not to lose.

yay teem though....it worked out.

Marcus
10-01-2006, 04:36 PM
He could have dropped back to pass, the protection might have broken down, Jason Taylor could stripped the ball away and taken it to the house, and it'd be 10-3 Miami.

I dunno . . doesn't it seem like there's enough second guessing around here when they lose? Or is it 'loose'? Maybe it's 'lose' after all. Naaa, it's 'loose'.

Vinny
10-01-2006, 04:38 PM
He could have dropped back to pass, the protection might have broken down, Jason Taylor could stripped the ball away and taken it to the house, and it'd be 10-3 Miami.

I dunno . . doesn't it seem like there's enough second guessing around here when they lose? Or is it 'loose'? Maybe it's 'lose' after all. Naaa, it's 'loose'.
and we could be hit by a meteor from outer space. I just yearn to have a team that will be aggressive on offense....We just gave up the possession. one day, one day perhaps.

jerek
10-01-2006, 04:47 PM
I didn't like sitting on the ball either. IMO Miami's D hadn't shown anything yet at that point and Carr has done reasonably well in 2-minute drill possessions. In retrospect it worked out but I don't understand the decision then or now.

Headlights of a Carr
10-01-2006, 04:49 PM
We had PLENTY of time to try to score. We just decided to say skroo it and go into the half at 3-3. This is as pathetic as it gets and this is a brutal brand of football. The Dolphins get the ball with .23 seconds and feel they have enough time to score. At least they play some football....we are scrimmaging.

Why when we were getting the ball to start the second half. I agreed with the decision. :yawn:

jerek
10-01-2006, 04:52 PM
Why when we were getting the ball to start the second half. I agreed with the decision. :yawn:

It reeked of Capers; might've been his presence in the stadium. Caution has its place but the Miami D hadn't really come up with anything yet, and I thought Carr has performed relatively well in hurry-up to this point. Plenty of time and getting the ball back tied is well and good, but getting it back up 7 is even better.

Vinny
10-01-2006, 04:55 PM
Why when we were getting the ball to start the second half. probably cause the Dolphins got it to start the game. Just giving up on one of the few possessions you have in a game reeks of lameness.

jmo

Headlights of a Carr
10-01-2006, 04:56 PM
It reeked of Capers; might've been his presence in the stadium. Caution has its place but the Miami D hadn't really come up with anything yet, and I thought Carr has performed relatively well in hurry-up to this point. Plenty of time and getting the ball back tied is well and good, but getting it back up 7 is even better.

Well we won so who cares now right? At least we are not going to start 0-6 like last year.:cowboy1:

Headlights of a Carr
10-01-2006, 04:57 PM
probably cause the Dolphins got it to start the game. Just giving up on one of the few possessions you have in a game reeks of lameness.

jmo


Yeah but deep in our own territory you don't risk a mistake that could cost you the game when we can start the second half with the ball.:cowboy1:

JMO

Tulip
10-01-2006, 05:03 PM
I swear I turned red when I saw what they were doing. If I ever - EVER - hear the words "we're going to try to keep it close and then find a way to win in the 4th quarter" come out of Kubiak's mouth - I will be a charter member of the Fire Kubiak Club.

1 minute and 54 seconds. Shameful.

Tulip
10-01-2006, 05:05 PM
Yeah but deep in our own territory you don't risk a mistake that could cost you the game when we can start the second half with the ball.:cowboy1:

JMO

But don't you think that, in that one move, the players are hearing "sorry, guys, but we just don't trust you enough not to make a mistake"? That has to be detrimental to morale over the long run.

Porky
10-01-2006, 05:08 PM
There is NO excuse for that prevent offense they ran out there. NONE.

K.D.
10-01-2006, 05:16 PM
you guys just cant wait to find something to complain about. you just want to pass, pass, pass, pass, pass. it has been good game calling imo. now i will sit back and wait for the whiners to rip me.

I'm down with you dogg, more than forcing something trying to score, Kube's had confidence in the way the D was playing that they could end the half with the score still tied. He knew we get the ball to start the 2nd half, and probably rather to score then instead of playing catch-up. It didn't happen that way, but we can thank Bidell or whatever his name is for that.

run-david-run
10-01-2006, 05:19 PM
I wasnt happy about it either, but in a 3-3 game and with us getting posession to start the second half, I can understand it. It would be nice to average more then 3 yards a carry, also.

TexansSeminole
10-01-2006, 05:22 PM
We had PLENTY of time to try to score. We just decided to say skroo it and go into the half at 3-3. This is as pathetic as it gets and this is a brutal brand of football. The Dolphins get the ball with .23 seconds and feel they have enough time to score. At least they play some football....we are scrimmaging.

I think its more that a big play for us (touchdown drive) would help us less than a big play for them (interception) would hurt us. Kubiak didn't want to go into that locker room at halftime after self destructing before the half again. Kills the morale of the team, and gives the other team momentum.

Our team is pretty fragile right now.

hollywood_texan
10-01-2006, 05:25 PM
Kubiak didn't run the 2 minute offense because he doesn't have confidence in their execution.

I wonder what the problem is? Who does he think can't execute?

That is what someone should ask him on his radio show.

K.D.
10-01-2006, 05:29 PM
Kubiak didn't run the 2 minute offense because he doesn't have confidence in their execution.

I wonder what the problem is? Who does he think can't execute?

That is what someone should ask him on his radio show.

This quote is ridiculous. The problem is you don't know football.:tease:

Tulip
10-01-2006, 05:31 PM
Kubiak didn't run the 2 minute offense because he doesn't have confidence in their execution.

I wonder what the problem is? Who does he think can't execute?

That is what someone should ask him on his radio show.

I think that is an excellent question for Kubiak's show. It's not always easy to find constructive ways to put the coach on the spot - but you definitely hit it there.

Tulip
10-01-2006, 05:33 PM
This quote is ridiculous. The problem is you don't know football.:tease:

Playing not to lose is a losing philosophy.

Texans_Chick
10-01-2006, 05:35 PM
It didn't bug me too bad, though I would have like to have tried at least one run to the outside to maybe eat more clock (and because runs down the middle ain't working).

The reason why I was fine with it is because I still have post traumatic stress symptoms from the interception/TD before the half that happened last year during the KC game.

hollywood_texan
10-01-2006, 05:35 PM
Kubiak didn't run the 2 minute offense because he doesn't have confidence in their execution.

I wonder what the problem is? Who does he think can't execute?

That is what someone should ask him on his radio show.

This quote is ridiculous. The problem is you don't know football.:tease:

How is this ridiculous?

Kubiak is an offensive minded coach that has plenty of time to get down the field to kick a fieldgoal. Which was an excellent opportunity because they were getting the ball first in the second half.

Why did Kubiak not run the 2 minute offense?

It seems clear to me that he doesn't have confidence that they can execute the 2 minute drill.

What else could it be if it is so ridiculous?

K.D.
10-01-2006, 05:50 PM
Yo Hollywood Texan, all I got to say is OFFENSIVE LINE. Not that he has no confidence in them, but he knows that they are very FRAGILE right now.

TexansSeminole
10-01-2006, 05:52 PM
The reason why I was fine with it is because I still have post traumatic stress symptoms from the interception/TD before the half that happened last year during the KC game.

Exactly. An interception period would really hurt our team at that point. INT for a touchdown is even worse. I think Kubiak is taking steps with this team, if he feels he can boost their morale why take a gamble at destroying it again.

blockhead83
10-01-2006, 06:02 PM
I wasn't irate when we decided to run clock, but I would have liked us to go for some points in that situation, and would have thought a coach like Kubiak would've thought likewise. Carr hasn't been great at making big plays down the field (he's been pretty decent though), but he's been really safe with the football. I would've liked to see us try and drive down for a field goal or, if we hit a big play, a touchdown.

Maddict5
10-01-2006, 06:08 PM
Yeah but deep in our own territory you don't risk a mistake that could cost you the game when we can start the second half with the ball.:cowboy1:

JMO

ok i get what happened now......

you cant say that decision was right- it was wrong...luckily it didnt cost us the game...id agree with you if there was around a minute left and 1 or none to's but time wasn't a constraint-for a fg anyway....

using your logic we should have punted at the start of the 2nd half aswell because we shouldnt 'risk a mistake'

Tulip
10-01-2006, 06:08 PM
Exactly. An interception period would really hurt our team at that point. INT for a touchdown is even worse. I think Kubiak is taking steps with this team, if he feels he can boost their morale why take a gamble at destroying it again.

And he would fear this because David Carr has thrown how many interceptions this year? One? One that wasn't really an interception?

TexansSeminole
10-01-2006, 06:16 PM
And he would fear this because David Carr has thrown how many interceptions this year? One? One that wasn't really an interception?

Two, but it's not a whole lot different than one. Well that's another reason why he wouldn't want to go for it there. You've got David Carr playing good football, his confidence seems to be lifting every week. David Carr throws an interception there, it hurts his confidence. Imagine if it goes for a touchdown, then its a real big mistake, and then Miami's confidence goes through the roof. Your looking at stats too much. Things obviously change fast in the NFL. 1 INT turns into 2 INTs. 2 INTs turns into 3 INTs. 1 TD turns into 2 TDs. 2 TDs turns into 3 TDs. Kubiak has Carr on a good track, but it is slow and steady one.

sleepwalker
10-01-2006, 06:23 PM
I think also that Kubiak knows we are weak in our secondary...You saw what the Dolphins hurry up offense did at the end of the game...It looked bad at first, but now I think it was good decision...He basically didnt give them an opportunity to exploit our coverage with the 2 min drill.

hollywood_texan
10-01-2006, 07:13 PM
Yo Hollywood Texan, all I got to say is OFFENSIVE LINE. Not that he has no confidence in them, but he knows that they are very FRAGILE right now.

From your response, it looks like my point wasn't ridiculous but right on point!

You just have a hard time admitting it.

NederlandTexan
10-01-2006, 07:19 PM
Second guessing even after a win.....sad. If we pass and it's intercepted the complaint would be "why didn't we run out the clock, we're getting the ball to start the second half." Some of you people just feel the need to bit@# don't you?

Kaiser Toro
10-01-2006, 07:29 PM
You do not squander 1:54 left in the half when you are 0-3. We simply are not good enough to be able look at our options for winning in a portfolio-play manner.

We needed this win bad. This blunder, by Kubiak, or expose of our QB's limitations, will be looked over as it needs to be since the mission was accomplished. But even after victory you must go find the mistakes, because there are always plenty, and work on them the following week. This is how you get better and look like a NFL team. We took a step forward on the offensive and defensive side of the ball today, in my opinion, and that alone makes it a good day to be a Texan. :texflag:

Goldeagle
10-01-2006, 07:31 PM
We had PLENTY of time to try to score. We just decided to say skroo it and go into the half at 3-3. This is as pathetic as it gets and this is a brutal brand of football. The Dolphins get the ball with .23 seconds and feel they have enough time to score. At least they play some football....we are scrimmaging.

I dont know why we wont go for a chance to slice a persons throat. Looked like Capers play calling as well.

Mr. White
10-01-2006, 07:32 PM
This might be a good question for somebody to call in and ask about tomorrow during his show on 610. I nominate Marcus.

Stampede
10-01-2006, 07:52 PM
I agreed with the first two runs, but on third down i would have liked to see us have a more creative play called. We needed the first down to keep the minnows offense off the field. Time out was called right after the play so we gained nothing from the conservative run in that situation. But hey, we won the game so its all good. Congrats Mario on your first nfl sack and congrats to all the Texans fans on our first win of the season.

281
10-01-2006, 08:13 PM
It didn't bug me too bad, though I would have like to have tried at least one run to the outside to maybe eat more clock (and because runs down the middle ain't working).

The reason why I was fine with it is because I still have post traumatic stress symptoms from the interception/TD before the half that happened last year during the KC game.

amen, turnovers are killer

Maddict5
10-01-2006, 08:28 PM
I agreed with the first two runs, but on third down i would have liked to see us have a more creative play called. We needed the first down to keep the minnows offense off the field. Time out was called right after the play so we gained nothing from the conservative run in that situation. But hey, we won the game so its all good. Congrats Mario on your first nfl sack and congrats to all the Texans fans on our first win of the season.

id pass on first down- then run on the next play whether it was successfull or not and then see where you are

Second guessing even after a win.....sad. If we pass and it's intercepted the complaint would be "why didn't we run out the clock, we're getting the ball to start the second half." Some of you people just feel the need to bit@# don't you?

i dont think its *****ing for the sake of it- its not like it was a situation where it was being dumb or overly aggressive like throwing a ball up with 30 secs left.. id say ,even if the worst case scenario ie pick 6 etc, most fans would be forgiving to kubiak because they knew we had plenty of time and its a situation where most good, experienced coaches- like belichick, shanahan etc would do the same....and where the dom capers and mike mularkey's of this world go conservative........

to me thats why most people, myself included, are annoyed about it....i dont know maybe i read too much TMQ

TexanSam
10-01-2006, 10:01 PM
Second guessing even after a win.....sad. If we pass and it's intercepted the complaint would be "why didn't we run out the clock, we're getting the ball to start the second half." Some of you people just feel the need to bit@# don't you?

Well I prefer to call in criticism. Yes we got the win, but some fans here also like to point out faults with the team and what we think they could have done better. This is one of them. I was disappointed in the three straight rushing plays. At least take one shot downfield! I wonder what Kubiak has to say about this drive.

Anguyen
10-01-2006, 11:12 PM
We had PLENTY of time to try to score. We just decided to say skroo it and go into the half at 3-3. This is as pathetic as it gets and this is a brutal brand of football.
It's call Dom Caper's Time Of Prossesion Scheme. LOL
Let hope that's the LAST time we'll see 2 minute of the game going to wate.

phan1
10-02-2006, 09:14 AM
It wasn't that bad a call IMO. Mostly because I was in my seat thinking "please don't turn it over" the whole time too. :P It was had to shake the image of Taylor stripping the Ball from Carr which just happened a few possessions ago.

But after this game, we should really start trusting Carr more. Kubiak's gotta believe in him and believe he can make the plays when he has to. He did in the 2nd half didn't he? :)

Bamaborn-Texasbred
10-02-2006, 09:34 AM
Most people around me at the stadium were booing. I was one of the few clapping. It was super important for those players (especially the defensive players) to go into the locker room without being behind for the first time. I thought it was a good call by Kubes. When this offense goes an entire half without turning the ball over or putting it on the ground Kubiak will go for it in situations like that. I can't blame him one bit for wanting to make sure he had a share of the lead at halftime.

disaacks3
10-02-2006, 09:38 AM
The consensus of everyone I talked to in the Bull Pen was the same as mine at the half....had DC snuck back over to our sidelines?

Yes, I'm VERY happy we won the game, but this isn't the Colts we're talking about here. You take your shots when you get them. That was a PERFECT, case-study layout to run a 2:00min. drill and we resorted to giving up and PRAYING that there wouldn't be enough time left for the Fins to air it out & get in range.

That's the first time I've truly been PI**ED w/ Kubiak's decision-making, though last week's clock management wasn't too wonderful either.

I still support the Texans and Kubiak 100%, but to call that move OK would simply stretch reality too far.

cuppacoffee
10-02-2006, 09:57 AM
Second guessing even after a win.....sad. If we pass and it's intercepted the complaint would be "why didn't we run out the clock, we're getting the ball to start the second half." Some of you people just feel the need to bit@# don't you?

Thanks Nederland.

I was beginning to think I was just dreaming that we won the game.

I am beginning to think that some posters will always find a way to hang a criticism on Carr, even when we win. Delusional comes to mind.

It was Carrs fault that Kubiak decided to run out the clock at the end of the half.

Kubiak didn't trust Carr not to turn the ball over.

Carr does have a boat load of turnovers this year.:rolleyes:

Seems Carr should not have thrown the int. Oh wait, it was everybodys' hero Andre who had the ball taken out of his hands.

Pathetic.

Someone quote me Andres' stats from yesterday and tell me how good he is. Just remember, if stats work for AJ they also work for Carr.

Daahaamn.

:coffee:

kingh99
10-02-2006, 10:01 AM
We had PLENTY of time to try to score. We just decided to say skroo it and go into the half at 3-3. This is as pathetic as it gets and this is a brutal brand of football. The Dolphins get the ball with .23 seconds and feel they have enough time to score. At least they play some football....we are scrimmaging.

It put us in a particularly foul mood whilest smoking a stogie during halftime. Where was the attack mentality? two minute drill? I guess they are playing not to lose until they get some confidence.

Kaiser Toro
10-02-2006, 10:04 AM
Thanks Nederland.

I was beginning to think I was just dreaming that we won the game.

I am beginning to think that some posters will always find a way to hang a criticism on Carr, even when we win. Delusional comes to mind.

It was Carrs fault that Kubiak decided to run out the clock at the end of the half.

Kubiak didn't trust Carr not to turn the ball over.

Carr does have a boat load of turnovers this year.:rolleyes:

Seems Carr should not have thrown the int. Oh wait, it was everybodys' hero Andre who had the ball taken out of his hands.

Pathetic.

Someone quote me Andres' stats from yesterday and tell me how good he is. Just remember, if stats work for AJ they also work for Carr.

Daahaamn.

:coffee:

This is the type of mantra that settles for mediocrity and prefers to protect individuals rather than call out a blunder by the offensive unit. A commitment to excellence is what I expect from my team.

TK_Gamer
10-02-2006, 10:13 AM
it worked out well...but not taking a shot at scoring with 2 mins left shows no confidence at all (probably justified). I'm not a big fan of playing not to lose.

yay teem though....it worked out.

yeah I dont know what's up with you, you dont seem to be a big fan of anything lately, who messed in your cheerios? why all the anger? what favorite player of yours is doing bad or is not on the texans? really, I'd like to know. because since training camp you have been one of the biggest team detractors on this board, no matter what positive happens, you find a way to make it a negative. what gives? cant you just give it a break? the team is what the team is, if it's bad it's bad, you still have the choice to support it or not support it, if you dont support it, why are you here?

gwallaia
10-02-2006, 10:24 AM
Listen to the Gary Kubiak Show today. donbmt says he's going to ask Coach about the playcalling to end the first half.

jerek
10-02-2006, 10:42 AM
Well we won so who cares now right? At least we are not going to start 0-6 like last year.:cowboy1:

Yes we won, but win or lose, you always look for ways to improve. My opinion is that we should have pushed it at that time, for reasons I've already stated.

I'm quite happy that we won but IMO it's perhaps even more important to critically analyze a winning performance -- in that time where you'd rather just be celebrating -- rather than to treat it complacently. We made plenty of mistakes against a bad team and if you're too busy throwing a party to analyze and correct those mistakes, then you're going to lose to someone else who will take advantage of them.

thunderkyss
10-02-2006, 10:58 AM
It reeked of Capers; might've been his presence in the stadium. Caution has its place but the Miami D hadn't really come up with anything yet, and I thought Carr has performed relatively well in hurry-up to this point. Plenty of time and getting the ball back tied is well and good, but getting it back up 7 is even better.

I've said it before, and will probably get slapped for saying it here. but our Offense has gotten simpler from Day one. I know folks will like to say I think it's because of David Carr, but I don't believe it is solely because of David.

David's ability to think, and our lines in-ability to block I think is what made Capers ball so hard to watch. He didn't have that problem in Carolina.

Hopefully Kubiak has got a grip on the problem, and will rectify it.

But I don't think David has had a problem in the 2minute drill..... I really think that is one area he does shine. Not much thinking, get to the line, call a play, throw the ball..... get to the line, call a play, throw the ball....

Mean Machine
10-02-2006, 11:08 AM
This IS a GLARING issue, that scares me a bit with the new staff. Ladies and Gentleman, when you have 2 time outs and almost 2 minutes to go in the game in the NFL, college or high school or pee wee football, you TRY to make something happen. It is called an offensive possesion, they are precious, you have to cherish each one for what it is, a chance, an opportunity to score.

That is the object of the game, to try to win, not try to lose. It was waaaay to conservative for me. Yes, sometimesin this situation (with Domanick Davis) a run on 1st down might break for 10-15 yards, but to plunge Dayne over left guard 3 times is TOTALLY INEXCUSABLE.

It's called the "2 minute drill". Carr and Andre had barely been stopped all day. This is scary and I really want to hear Coach Kubiak's explanation on this, so I hope somebody can call in this afternoon to his show on 610 and ask the question. WHY?

Folks, the best news is, WE WON!!! But that sweating it out there on the 2 point conversion would have been pointless had we driven the ball 35 yards and let Brownie nail a 50 yarder to end the 1st half.

cuppacoffee
10-02-2006, 01:13 PM
This is the type of mantra that settles for mediocrity and prefers to protect individuals rather than call out a blunder by the offensive unit. A commitment to excellence is what I expect from my team.

Al Davis has a copyright on that. :jk:

I really don't understand your response. :hmmm:

:coffee:

SESupergenius
10-02-2006, 01:37 PM
I think that we had time to try and score, bur realisticly we didn't have momentum. Carr and the offense as well schooled in the no huddle and 2 minute offense so that shouldn't have been an issue. This one is on Kubiak and the offensive coordinator. Kubiak needs to take more chances and get a gut check from his players to see where they are at.

Runner
10-02-2006, 01:40 PM
bur realisticly we didn't have momentum.

Then accept the challenge and create some momentum. I doubt if anyone is going to just give it to you.

real
10-02-2006, 01:42 PM
I think that we had time to try and score, bur realisticly we didn't have momentum. Carr and the offense as well schooled in the no huddle and 2 minute offense so that shouldn't have been an issue. This one is on Kubiak and the offensive coordinator. Kubiak needs to take more chances and get a gut check from his players to see where they are at.

Are you suggesting that he test players instead of doing what he thinks will help us win???

As a fan I wanted them to go for it....As a realist...I didn't....If we had passed the ball and had three incompletions...we punt....David was getting harrased all game...could have taken a sack...fumbled....anything could have happened at that point....you don't want to have anything negative happen going into half time, and in that situation mor negative could have come from it than good....but We won...So IMO kubes made the right call...

real
10-02-2006, 01:44 PM
Then accept the challenge and create some momentum. I doubt if anyone is going to just give it to you.

If we were the colts I could understand that logic...but we have a lot of players with fragile mental states....anything negative going into the half could have thrown us off...

SESupergenius
10-02-2006, 01:48 PM
Are you suggesting that he test players instead of doing what he thinks will help us win???

As a fan I wanted them to go for it....As a realist...I didn't....If we had passed the ball and had three incompletions...we punt....David was getting harrased all game...could have taken a sack...fumbled....anything could have happened at that point....you don't want to have anything negative happen going into half time, and in that situation mor negative could have come from it than good....but We won...So IMO kubes made the right call...We played not to lose....and almost ended up being tied at the end of the game, we were one play away from going into OT. If we had marched down and kicked at least a FG, it wouldn't have been an issue. Besides, our defense isn't known for stopping the pass, we put the pressure all on defense (the worst in the league mind you) to stop them from scoring. Now you can say that Kubiak WANTED to let our defense gain some confidence just as much as scoring would have done for the offense, but I'd find that a little speculative.

real
10-02-2006, 01:55 PM
We played not to lose....and almost ended up being tied at the end of the game, we were one play away from going into OT. If we had marched down and kicked at least a FG, it wouldn't have been an issue. Besides, our defense isn't known for stopping the pass, we put the pressure all on defense (the worst in the league mind you) to stop them from scoring. Now you can say that Kubiak WANTED to let our defense gain some confidence just as much as scoring would have done for the offense, but I'd find that a little speculative.


All that is besides the point...You can say we were one play away from this or that...but that's all hindsight...we are strictly talking about Kubes making the decision to not go into a two minute offense...and If im not mistaken He gave the ball to Dayne 1 or 2 times....If Dayne could have picked up any yardage at all we probaly would have atleast tried for the field goal....But I like the decision because had we made a mistake at that point even if the dolphins didn't put points on the board THAT could have ruined us...Carr pointed out that last week when the skins tied the game a lot of guys started hanging their heads...Imagine what a mistake at that point would have done....

and I don't follow your last sentence...

Runner
10-02-2006, 01:56 PM
If we were the colts I could understand that logic...but we have a lot of players with fragile mental states....anything negative going into the half could have thrown us off...

I can see your point of view, but I think that type of thinking led to last year's constant max protect packages with frequent one yard passes to Dre.

I just think we need to take the training wheels off. I much prefer watching a game we lose that is exciting because we tried to win than watch a game we lose where we never did anything in hopes not to lose.

Vinny
10-02-2006, 02:45 PM
We played not to lose....and almost ended up being tied at the end of the game, we were one play away from going into OT. If we had marched down and kicked at least a FG, it wouldn't have been an issue. Besides, our defense isn't known for stopping the pass, we put the pressure all on defense (the worst in the league mind you) to stop them from scoring.That's a good point.

Double Barrel
10-02-2006, 02:46 PM
We had PLENTY of time to try to score. We just decided to say skroo it and go into the half at 3-3. This is as pathetic as it gets and this is a brutal brand of football. The Dolphins get the ball with .23 seconds and feel they have enough time to score. At least they play some football....we are scrimmaging.

I think this is a valid question, and it smells of a Capersish "play not to lose" mentality. Kubiak has always struck me as a "play to win the game" coach, so it is perplexing that he'd take the conservative approach in this situation. There is definitely a thought process at work here, we just don't know the exact details of his decision right now.

If the homers want to critize a valid question just because we won, then there is nothing to discuss the next two weeks. "Hey we won, let's all hug and sing kumbaya and roast marshmellows now. Don't be down on the team, we wooooon." :grouphug:

But the fact of the matter is that the majority of professional football teams would have run a two minute drill in that situation, but we did not. Why? It is not criticism to ask the question. It is critical analysis, and we have a right to ask for an answer as consumers of this product and fans of this team.

WhyIsItAlwaysNextYear
10-02-2006, 03:02 PM
But the fact of the matter is that the majority of professional football teams would have run a two minute drill in that situation, but we did not. Why? It is not criticism to ask the question. It is critical analysis, and we have a right to ask for an answer as consumers of this product and fans of this team.[/QUOTE]


The Fact of the matter is the MAJORITY of professional football teams were not 2-14 last year, the MAJORITY of professional football teams have not forgotten how to win, and the MAJORITY of professional football teams don’t have a new coach, new defensive system, new offensive system and a complete lack of confidence! The MAJORITY of professional football teams have not been scored on in their first three games with very little time left in the first half. The only thing worse than feeling like we missed an opportunity to drive down and add points with 2 minutes left is if we had turned the ball over and given up points and let that "Here we go again feeling" creep back in! We are not just any professional football team; we are a 2-14 expansion team that needs to learn how to win! This team has yet to be a winner, and Kubiak is doing all he can to teach this team to win and be confident they can win facing a schedule that is a nightmare! We were a disgrace last year and that was more a reflection on our complete lack of confidence, leadership and knowledge of what it takes to be a winner than it was on our lack of talent.

Vinny
10-02-2006, 03:10 PM
The only thing worse than feeling like we missed an opportunity to drive down and add points with 2 minutes left is if we had turned the ball over and given up points and let that "Here we go again feeling" creep back in! I'd rather go down swinging myself. "Keeping it close" so the defense can win it for you works when you have a good defense....it's a questionable decision when your defense is giving up 500 yards a game.

WhyIsItAlwaysNextYear
10-02-2006, 03:22 PM
I would tend to agree with you if we were not a team that’s confidence could be so easily crushed! This team before yesterday had won 2 of 19 games! I am for making the drive 99% of the time but we are in a rough spot of trying to not only win but to build the confidence to win. Kubiak is a coach who has always lived by the run, a real ball control coach. It’s going to take some time for him to adjust to the fact we don’t have a good run game and our defense has been a sieve. The Texans have been the perfect example of Murphy's Law, anything that can go wrong it will go wrong. Once this team has some confidence and has one a few games I am all for going Balls to the wall and trying the drive but playing it safe as a team trying to learn to win is not as bad as you think! You can interpret it either way, you can say playing it safe is a sign of desperation and fear, but in our case I think risking a failure before the half on a team that has typically found a way to blow it is much more of a sign of desperation, as opposed to going in a half time when you get the ball first after the half. Don’t do anything stupid to lose confidence before the half against a team that needs you to make a mistake to beat you.

Runner
10-02-2006, 03:54 PM
I would tend to agree with you if we were not a team that’s confidence could be so easily crushed!

We keep talking about team confidence. Here is a question. What do you think the players' thoughts:

1) were when we sat on the ball?

2) would have been had we tried to run the two minute drill?

I think that NOT going for it does as little for the players' confidence as going for it and failing.

WhyIsItAlwaysNextYear
10-02-2006, 04:06 PM
That is possible! You could also make the argument that it showed Kubiak believed there was no need for urgency and that he had faith that the defense could hold and that the offense could drive in the second half. Like I said before Kubiak is going to need to make some adjustments to his philosophy considering our inability to open running lanes and understand our defensive woes I just think he is used to playing a ball control style of football. Don’t get me wrong I am not advocating always running the ball and burning the clock to get into the locker room and play it safe, just understand the thinking all things considered. After all we were going to get the ball first after the half and had some good drives if we could eliminate our mistakes.

Runner
10-02-2006, 04:11 PM
That is possible! You could also make the argument that it showed Kubiak believed there was no need for urgency and that he had faith that the defense could hold and that the offense could drive in the second half.

That is a possible thought, but given the aggressive mentality of the average football player I still think they were thinking along the lines of, "Why didn't he turn us loose? Doesn't he trust us?"

WhyIsItAlwaysNextYear
10-02-2006, 04:22 PM
All good points! I hope we get to have this discussion for a long time after a lot of wins!

I was just kind of surprised how upset people seemed about that decision, like playing it safe was a complete screw up when it worked out like Kubiak expected it to. After the last four years I just keep waiting for the other shoe to drop! I am just happy it worked out, sometimes it seems like no matter which option we choose its always the wrong one. Lets hope that started to change on sunday!

real
10-02-2006, 04:47 PM
That is a possible thought, but given the aggressive mentality of the average football player I still think they were thinking along the lines of, "Why didn't he turn us loose? Doesn't he trust us?"

Not neccessarily...You guys have to be realistic...We had only scored 3 points in the first half and we weren't really clicking that well offensively...Why take the risk of throwing the ball and then having to punt it away....and we know that our defense can give up a touchdown at any given moment...It wasn't worth the risk and I am glad Kubes doesn't think like a lot of you all....You guys are acting like we are an established team with a rich history of winning....His mindset was let's take it into the half basically 0-0...make adjustments, and come back out and try to win it in the second half and not give it away in the final minutes of the first....Had we made a mistake at that point we probably wouldn't have been able to recover....Instead of looking at it like he didn't trust the offense...Maybe he just had more trust in his second half adjustments and gameplan....There are so many reasons not to go for it, and really not many reasons to take that risk.....We won, so obviously the call wasn't detrimental...could it have been??? Who knows...we could have went for it gotten a field goal and still lost...Nobody knows what coulda, woulda and shoulda happened...

It's very easy as a fan to sit and yell about what the coach should have done...But it isn't Madden...It's his career....

real
10-02-2006, 04:51 PM
Had Kubiak went for it and something costly had happened...this thread would be the exact opposite...People would be talking about how he shouldn't have gone for it....Personally I think he made the right decision and going for it IMO would have been a gamble that wasn't worth taking...

hollywood_texan
10-02-2006, 04:55 PM
All good points! I hope we get to have this discussion for a long time after a lot of wins!

I was just kind of surprised how upset people seemed about that decision, like playing it safe was a complete screw up when it worked out like Kubiak expected it to. After the last four years I just keep waiting for the other shoe to drop! I am just happy it worked out, sometimes it seems like no matter which option we choose its always the wrong one. Lets hope that started to change on sunday!

The main reason I was upset with the decision is because I really wanted to see what this offense can do when the chips are down.

As a season ticketholder for 5 years, I think I deserve that.

Also, there is a lot of discussion on this board that the defense was the problem for the first 3 games. Maybe that was the case, but the offense doesn't do a defense any favors when it doesn't execute the 2 minute drill and can only get 1 first down to preserve an 8 point lead with about 5 minutes left. The offense should have at least got a field goal. Again, the chips were down and the offesne didn't come through.

Then I see a thread that states the Miami game was Carr's win. Just goes to prove the QB gets all the fame and blame, deserved or not.

Some people even posted this game was won in despite of the defense's play. The defense held Miami to 6 points through 3 quarters.

I am going on and on. Actually, just venting a bit, so please don't take it personally.

My point is, the offense is being coddled, just like what Capers did. Call the best play and if someone screws up, let's go from there.

Texans won Sunday because the defense played a lot better and the offense played pretty much the same.

When are the Texans going to score more than 20 points in a game when the chips are down the entire game?

SESupergenius
10-02-2006, 05:25 PM
The plan worked out for Kubiak because the Dolphins didn't march all the way down the field and score. I'm not that giddy in putting too much faith in our defense considering the yards they give up in the pass. I'd love for us to score points and put our opponents away, not play it conservative and let the other team dictate to me when I need to score or not. If you have the ball, you try to score (see Indy). What is a 2 minute drill for if you don't use? I guess we need 4 minutes for a 2 minute drill. We had plenty of time and time outs to boot, it was just a bad call.

Stampede
10-02-2006, 05:26 PM
Kubiak lured them into a false sense of security. He didnt want them to start the second half in their hurry up offense.

real
10-02-2006, 05:30 PM
Not neccessarily...You guys have to be realistic...We had only scored 3 points in the first half and we weren't really clicking that well offensively...Why take the risk of throwing the ball and then having to punt it away....and we know that our defense can give up a touchdown at any given moment...It wasn't worth the risk and I am glad Kubes doesn't think like a lot of you all....You guys are acting like we are an established team with a rich history of winning....His mindset was let's take it into the half basically 0-0...make adjustments, and come back out and try to win it in the second half and not give it away in the final minutes of the first....Had we made a mistake at that point we probably wouldn't have been able to recover....Instead of looking at it like he didn't trust the offense...Maybe he just had more trust in his second half adjustments and gameplan....There are so many reasons not to go for it, and really not many reasons to take that risk.....We won, so obviously the call wasn't detrimental...could it have been??? Who knows...we could have went for it gotten a field goal and still lost...Nobody knows what coulda, woulda and shoulda happened...

It's very easy as a fan to sit and yell about what the coach should have done...But it isn't Madden...It's his career....

Had Kubiak went for it and something costly had happened...this thread would be the exact opposite...People would be talking about how he shouldn't have gone for it....Personally I think he made the right decision and going for it IMO would have been a gamble that wasn't worth taking...

Y'all don't hear me tho'...

TheOgre
10-02-2006, 05:37 PM
We had PLENTY of time to try to score. We just decided to say skroo it and go into the half at 3-3. This is as pathetic as it gets and this is a brutal brand of football. The Dolphins get the ball with .23 seconds and feel they have enough time to score. At least they play some football....we are scrimmaging.

Agree totally, but I have to disagree with your title of this thread (semantics). "Drive" implies we are moving the ball. That was hardly even a possesssion.

SESupergenius
10-02-2006, 05:39 PM
Y'all don't hear me tho'...
I know I don't hear you because that doesn't make sense either. I mean you are also inserting all kinds of coulda would shoulda's. What if we punt and Welker runs it back for a TD, demoralizing our defense going into the locker room. What if our defense melts again (it's happend) in the prevent defense and they march down and score? There are just as many scenarios. 1 more completion by Culpepper and they are within Mare's FG range. Do you get that, 1 MORE PLAY and they were about to score, just like at the end of the game, 1 more play and they tie this thing up. As Fans, we are tired of this because we saw that philosophy last year and it got us 2-14. Do that to a better team than the Dolphins and we lose. It's that simple.

real
10-02-2006, 05:41 PM
I know I don't hear you because that doesn't make sense either. I mean you are also inserting all kinds of coulda would shoulda's. What if we punt and Welker runs it back for a TD, demoralizing our defense going into the locker room. What if our defense melts again (it's happend) in the prevent defense and they march down and score? There are just as many scenarios. 1 more completion by Culpepper and they are within Mare's FG range. Do you get that, 1 MORE PLAY and they were about to score, just like at the end of the game, 1 more play and they tie this thing up. As Fans, we are tired of this because we saw that philosophy last year and it got us 2-14. Do that to a better team than the Dolphins and we lose. It's that simple.

You are proving my point...sit back and listen to yourself....LMAO....

In order to get within scoring range we would have had to throw.....When you drop back to throw there are many more negative things that can happen than positive...Now suppose we don't complete a pass...Clock stops and now we gotta punt it back to em with a bunch of clock left...or Carr throws another pick....Or we get sacked.....It wasn't worth the risk....They would have looked foolish IMO, trying to do that....

SESupergenius
10-02-2006, 05:51 PM
You are proving my point...sit back and listen to yourself....LMAO....

In order to get within scoring range we would have had to throw.....When you drop back to throw there are many more negative things that can happen than positive...Now suppose we don't complete a pass...Clock stops and now we gotta punt it back to em with a bunch of clock left...or Carr throws another pick....Or we get sacked.....It wasn't worth the risk....They would have looked foolish IMO, trying to do that....
That is weak. Seems Saban didn't have ANY problems in trying to win and he was coming out throwing. Indy comes out against us when they are up by infinity and they pass it. if...if...if... We didn't have a single 3 and out series in the first half..no wait...THE WHOLE FREAKIN GAME!!, so really I you are reaching at straws with no backup.

real
10-02-2006, 05:56 PM
That is weak. Seems Saban didn't have ANY problems in trying to win and he was coming out throwing.
Where'd that get him....

Indy comes out against us when they are up by infinity and they pass it. if...if...if... We didn't have a single 3 and out series in the first half..no wait...THE WHOLE FREAKIN GAME!!, so really I you are reaching at straws with no backup.

We also weren't trying to go 80 yards in limited time the rest of the game.....do you get it??? We would have had to pass to make it in scoring range....

SESupergenius
10-02-2006, 06:04 PM
Where'd that get him....
Oh about to the 50 and 1 play away from a demoralizing FG...that's all.


We also weren't trying to go 80 yards in limited time the rest of the game.....do you get it??? We would have had to pass to make it in scoring range....I get that we have a passing efficiency of over 70% of our passes and only have 2 interceptions in 4 games. I get that our offense doesn't have too much trouble move the ball and didn't have a single 3 and out yesterday. I get that if we are moving the and the clock is ticking, it's a double good in our favor because if there is a slip up on the offense, the other team wouldn't have had the time they did to march down and only miss one play to get a FG.

TexansSeminole
10-02-2006, 06:08 PM
That is weak. Seems Saban didn't have ANY problems in trying to win and he was coming out throwing. Indy comes out against us when they are up by infinity and they pass it. if...if...if... We didn't have a single 3 and out series in the first half..no wait...THE WHOLE FREAKIN GAME!!, so really I you are reaching at straws with no backup.

Seems like Saban didn't have any problems other than the fact that he LOST. :twocents:

Double Barrel
10-02-2006, 06:09 PM
You play to win the game!

We can play the "what if..." game all day long.

What if our running back had fumbled the ball and Miami ran it back for a TD?

I'm just curious what Coach Kubiak's perspective was, because it is what it is. I'm interested as a fan of football, not to roast the guy.

SESupergenius
10-02-2006, 06:20 PM
Seems like Saban didn't have any problems other than the fact that he LOST. :twocents:yep, just like we've been doing for so long by not being aggressive. And really, they were 1 play away from a tie so I wouldn't put out the chest too much.

Porky
10-02-2006, 06:21 PM
I'm still upset with this a day later. I see a lot of people saying don't complain because we won, which is funny, because I bet that many of those same people would be the first to say we gave up a good chance at 3 or even 7 points at the end of the first half had we lost. If they had hit that 2 pt conversion to tie, and won in OT, that's all we would have heard about. But, no, we won, so we cannot have dissent or question any decision, as if every decision in a win is perfect, and every decision in a loss is wrong. It doesn't work like that in the real world folks, and it sure as hell doesn't in football.

Let's look at it. The D was actually playing well and pressuring Culpepper all day. The Offense had been doing at least some damage via the air. Yes, there were some protection issues. So, they could have gone to some quick hitters, some dumpoffs, or gotten Carr out on the edge to lesson those chances until we got on their side of the 50. Carr has been very stingy throwing picks this yr. Why assume he was going to throw one now? There was almost 2 full minutes, 2 TO's, and we had decent field position. In addition, what's the difference if you throw one now, or with 5 minutes left in the 3rd qtr? Or with 10 min left in the 4th qtr? I don't get this we have to go in tied at the half. Why? So, when they stand at the urinal they can prooudly say we are tied at the half? Who gives a flying flip. It's the score at the end of the game that goes into the record books. Are we trying to be the worlds best half time team?

Are they as fragile as glass dolls? If that's the case, they need to man up and grow a pair, or they are nothing but a bunch of sissies if that is going to bother them. This is Pro-Football. I suspect at least 28-30 teams, and maybe even 31 teams would have tried to make hay given the exact same scenerio yesterday, and I for one want to know why we are the two or so that wouldn't. It didn't cost us yesterday, but next time we might not be so lucky.

hollywood_texan
10-02-2006, 06:28 PM
Given Kubiak's credentials, you go with the 2 minute offense when you are on are on your own 20 with 1:57 and tied with a 3-3 ball game.

The defense was playing well and the offense needed to score points. Plus, the Texans were getting the ball first in the third quarter. It was a big opportunity that he passed on.

The question is why did Kubiak pass on the 2 minute drill?

I think there is an easy answer. He doesn't have confidence in the offense with their execution with limited time on the clock.

Personally, I want to see where this offense really stands with the chips on the line. From what I have seen thus far, this offense is being coddled just like what Capers did. Meanwhile, the defense is being nailed for poor play (fans want Smith's head) and the offense only scores 3 points in the first half and doesn't run the 2 minute drill, and no one really cares that much. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Like I said last week, I am skeptical of the offense and mortified by the defense.

Back on track though, Carr has the highest QB rating in the NFL and a lot people on this board tout that as great for thing of importance. Yet, Kubiak elects not to implement the 2 minute drill with the highest rated passer in the NFL.

Ummmhhhhh....

Something smells real fishy here...

hollywood_texan
10-02-2006, 06:35 PM
I'm still upset with this a day later. I see a lot of people saying don't complain because we won, which is funny, because I bet that many of those same people would be the first to say we gave up a good chance at 3 or even 7 points at the end of the first half had we lost. If they had hit that 2 pt conversion to tie, and won in OT, that's all we would have heard about. But, no, we won, so we cannot have dissent or question any decision, as if every decision in a win is perfect, and every decision in a loss is wrong. It doesn't work like that in the real world folks, and it sure as hell doesn't in football.

Let's look at it. The D was actually playing well and pressuring Culpepper all day. The Offense had been doing at least some damage via the air. Yes, there were some protection issues. So, they could have gone to some quick hitters, some dumpoffs, or gotten Carr out on the edge to lesson those chances until we got on their side of the 50. Carr has been very stingy throwing picks this yr. Why assume he was going to throw one now? There was almost 2 full minutes, 2 TO's, and we had decent field position. In addition, what's the difference if you throw one now, or with 5 minutes left in the 3rd qtr? Or with 10 min left in the 4th qtr? I don't get this we have to go in tied at the half. Why? So, when they stand at the urinal they can prooudly say we are tied at the half? Who gives a flying flip. It's the score at the end of the game that goes into the record books. Are we trying to be the worlds best half time team?

Are they as fragile as glass dolls? If that's the case, they need to man up and grow a pair, or they are nothing but a bunch of sissies if that is going to bother them. This is Pro-Football. I suspect at least 28-30 teams, and maybe even 31 teams would have tried to make hay given the exact same scenerio yesterday, and I for one want to know why we are the two or so that wouldn't. It didn't cost us yesterday, but next time we might not be so lucky.

Porky, you are nailing it!

I just want to add that the offense also could only get one first down with about 5 minutes left to protect an 8 point lead. The offense should have at least gone downfield and kicked a fieldgoal.

The defense played pretty good all day by holding the Dolphins to 6 points through 3 quarters. The offense played like it always does, has a couple of good drives, this time they did it in the fourth quarter, which is good but very unusual.

When is the offense going to play a complete game and score more than 20 points in a game that means something? This offense every week does about 17 points, 200 yards passing, and 90 yards rushing. Not much has changed since Capers guys!

TheOgre
10-02-2006, 06:58 PM
I find more fault in us sitting on the ball with 2 minutes to go in the half, than I do with the 2 point attempt call from Saban. At least his play had a chance (however slim) of scoring points.

Double Barrel
10-02-2006, 07:00 PM
The question is why did Kubiak pass on the 2 minute drill?

I think there is an easy answer. He doesn't have confidence in the offense with their execution with limited time on the clock.

Bingo. This is the only explanation that makes logical sense.

How's that for "building confidence"?

TexansSeminole
10-02-2006, 07:09 PM
yep, just like we've been doing for so long by not being aggressive. And really, they were 1 play away from a tie so I wouldn't put out the chest too much.

Wahhh Wahhh. Dude stop crying on every thread I read please. You think that we should always be aggressive? Im glad your a fan and not part of the staff.

Again I dont think you guys are understanding how fragile our team is. We have won 3 I REPEAT 3 games out of the last 20 we have played. (not counting preseason of course). It is a process. Sometimes you've got to make a decision like the one Kubiak made at the end of the half in order to build confidence. Dont give me that BS about it shows NO confidence in the O. Maybe it just shows some confidence in the D which has been struggling alot this year. Did you not notice how our D played in the 3rd quarter. They played much better than they have all season in that quarter. I think that part of this is the result of Kubiak trusting them this game.

I am sure that the people here who played competitive football know that mistakes stick with you.

Kubiak put the Dolphins in a situation that it would be very difficult to score b4 the half by running the clock. Then we get the ball to start the 2nd half. You have to pick your spots on when to be conservative and aggressive.

You can't just say OH WE ARE GONNA BE AN AGRESSIVE TEAM THAT BLITZES AND GOES FOR IT ALL THE TIME.

Positives of going for it: We score and have the lead with a little bit of O confidence.

Negatives of going for it: We can possibly turn the ball over and let the other team score before the half on OUR HOME FIELD, therefore taking the fans out of game at that point. Carr's confidence goes downward as well as the teams. The Dolphins gain confidence. Then we go out after the half and get stopped again!? Then what? Then Carr has got to be thinking he isnt gonna score for the rest of the game.

Kaiser Toro
10-02-2006, 07:14 PM
Carr is the highest rated passer in the NFL and he is a 5 year veteran, why should confidence and how to manage a two minute drill be an issue? At what time do we take the training wheels off of this NFL offense?

thunderkyss
10-02-2006, 07:17 PM
Not neccessarily...You guys have to be realistic...We had only scored 3 points in the first half and we weren't really clicking that well offensively...Why take the risk of throwing the ball and then having to punt it away....and we know that our defense can give up a touchdown at any given moment...It wasn't worth the risk and I am glad Kubes doesn't think like a lot of you all....

He's got just as much reason to believe our offense will fumble the ball away than to think our D will just lay down for Miami....... they only scored 3 points at that time as well.

That's the only thing he should have been worried about with our offense. David has not made any bad throws in the regular season, his only two INTs were a HailMary (more or less) & the strip of AndreJohnson....

But if I were on the team Yesterday, my pride would have had me beg Kubes to let us prove that we could run the ball in "garbage time", because trying to run the ball to open the third Qtr won't work.

It was hopefully a major blow to the pride of our team, and hopefully they'll do something about it.......

so far Dallas has been giving up 3.2 ypc...... & 83 ypg. They've given up 177 ypg, and so far, only 2 TDs passing........... We need to be better than that.

TexansSeminole
10-02-2006, 07:20 PM
Carr is the highest rated passer in the NFL and he is a 5 year veteran, why should confidence and how to manage a two minute drill be an issue? At what time do we take the training wheels off of this NFL offense?

I think it is obvious that Carr's passer rating is a direct cause of Kubiak. It isn't about knowing how to manage the two minute drill but more like the game. We have 2 possessions at this point. We have them beat, why gamble it? What happens if they intercept it and score...then we come out in the second half and score? Thats even. Kubiak gives them no chance to score before the half by running the clock. 3-3, with the ball after the half looks pretty good to Kubiak going into this half as opposed to his other games with this team. Why give them a chance to go up on you.

Double Barrel
10-02-2006, 07:20 PM
Wahhh Wahhh. Dude stop crying on every thread I read please. You think that we should always be aggressive? Im glad your a fan and not part of the staff.

You might wish to avoid flaming people if you want any respect on the forum. Otherwise, telling people they are "crying" because they have a different take is nothing but troll bait.

Again I dont think you guys are understanding how fragile our team is.

"Fragile" :um:

yeah, that's a word I want associated with my FOOTBALL team....not.

These dudes are PROFESSIONAL football players. They make millions of dollars to play a freakin' game. Like Porky said, if we have to put dresses on them and give them hugs while singing kumbaya around a campfire roasting marshmellows, they might want to find another line of work.

And where do you get this "fragile" take anyway? Are you in the locker room?

Like I said, we can play "what if" all day long. But this is a FOOTBALL forum, and this is a legitimate question to ask. If you persist in trying insult anyone that questions your own fragile state-of-mind, then you might not make too many friends here, y'know. :)

Are they as fragile as glass dolls? If that's the case, they need to man up and grow a pair, or they are nothing but a bunch of sissies if that is going to bother them. This is Pro-Football. I suspect at least 28-30 teams, and maybe even 31 teams would have tried to make hay given the exact same scenerio yesterday, and I for one want to know why we are the two or so that wouldn't. It didn't cost us yesterday, but next time we might not be so lucky.

yep :howdy:

thunderkyss
10-02-2006, 07:25 PM
Do that to a better team than the Dolphins and we lose. It's that simple.

& we didn't do this against a better team. Against Indy, we tried to score, against Philly, we tried to score, & against Washington, we tried to score.

Everybody is acting like this is the new trend........ I'm not seeing that.

He took an opportunity to work on a part of the game that we need to work on.

I didn't like to see it, but to hear all those boos from a bunch of fans who say they support Kubiak........

I don't know what he was thinking, but I'm sure it was the right decision.

SESupergenius
10-02-2006, 07:26 PM
Wahhh Wahhh. Dude stop crying on every thread I read please. You think that we should always be aggressive? Im glad your a fan and not part of the staff.

Again I dont think you guys are understanding how fragile our team is. We have won 3 I REPEAT 3 games out of the last 20 we have played. (not counting preseason of course). It is a process. Sometimes you've got to make a decision like the one Kubiak made at the end of the half in order to build confidence. Dont give me that BS about it shows NO confidence in the O. Maybe it just shows some confidence in the D which has been struggling alot this year. Did you not notice how our D played in the 3rd quarter. They played much better than they have all season in that quarter. I think that part of this is the result of Kubiak trusting them this game.

Kubiak put the Dolphins in a situation that it would be very difficult to score b4 the half by running the clock. Then we get the ball to start the 2nd half. You have to pick your spots on when to be conservative and aggressive.

Positives of going for it: We score and have the lead with a little bit of O confidence.

Negatives of going for it: We can possibly turn the ball over and let the other team score before the half on OUR HOME FIELD, therefore taking the fans out of game at that point. Carr's confidence goes downward as well as the teams. The Dolphins gain confidence. Then we go out after the half and get stopped again!? Then what? Then Carr has got to be thinking he isnt gonna score for the rest of the game.
oh please. I like how you name like only 1 positive thing and 5 negatives. That is ridiculous. That's the same kind of thinking that has led this team to bad records the last 2 season....no confidence. Hide in your shell and just give up.

Let try it this way:

Positives:
We head into the halftime with a lead, first time this season.
We put the pressure on the Dolphins throughout the 2nd half
We keep the Dolphins offense off the field from taking a lead and demoralizing our team once again.
If we at least make a FG, there is not last play in the game for a tie
We moved the ball and kill the clock, not allowing the Dolphins a chance to come back
Our defense had played well, if an error occured, the Dolphins only scored 3 points against it.
If we lose the ball, Miami still has to try and score, it's possible our defense stops them and causes an interception or fumble as well.
We move the ball from our end in a few plays but have to punt, we've killed the clock and moved them way back.


Negatives

We lose the ball and Miami tries to score another FG, we are only down by 3
Miami scores a TD, but we get the ball the 2nd half to tie right away


I mean anyone can play that what if game, but we will never know. What if Dayne fumbles the ball, what if on our punt it get's blocked. Those are risky gambles as well.

hollywood_texan
10-02-2006, 07:26 PM
Positives of going for it: We score and have the lead with a little bit of O confidence.

Negatives of going for it: We can possibly turn the ball over and let the other team score before the half on OUR HOME FIELD, therefore taking the fans out of game at that point. Carr's confidence goes downward as well as the teams. The Dolphins gain confidence. Then we go out after the half and get stopped again!? Then what? Then Carr has got to be thinking he isnt gonna score for the rest of the game.

I thought Capers was fired, Kubiak was hired, and Carr's contract was extended because the negatives are not an issue. Sounds like the same old thing from the past few years. When are things going to change?

At some point, the concern about the offense being fragile has got to stop.

It needs to stop because this team isn't going to get better with that type of play and they are going to lose a lot of heartbreakers playing that way in the process.

Nbkan
10-02-2006, 07:27 PM
I am glad we won, but I tend to agree with Vinny on this. I always say champions rise to the challenge. I hate playing soft, because when you are tentative and scared thats when mistakes can happen. I would rather play aggressive and lose, but I can understand why Kubes did what he did.

Anyhow we got the win, but I am of the mindset to stick it to the opposition anytime you can. I always think of Houston vs. Buffalo and the lead they blew, you can never have enough points...don't squander your opportunities, don't played scared and don't play conservative.

I probably wouldn't win as much as Kubes if I was coach, but at least I would be playing to win vs. playing not to lose.

Again don't take this the wrong way...I am happy with the win and I am looking forward to the Cowboys on the 15th!

TexansSeminole
10-02-2006, 07:28 PM
You might wish to avoid flaming people if you want any respect on the forum. Otherwise, telling people they are "crying" because they have a different take is nothing but troll bait.

"Fragile" :um:

yeah, that's a word I want associated with my FOOTBALL team....not.

These dudes are PROFESSIONAL football players. They make millions of dollars to play a freakin' game. Like Porky said, if we have to put dresses on them and give them hugs while singing kumbaya around a campfire roasting marshmellows, they might want to find another line of work.

And where do you get this "fragile" take anyway? Are you in the locker room?

Like I said, we can play "what if" all day long. But this is a FOOTBALL forum, and this is a legitimate question to ask. If you persist in trying insult anyone that questions your own fragile state-of-mind, then you might not make too many friends here, y'know. :)

Every thread I go to this guy is bashing someone for what they are saying, I am just tired of seeing him bash xtruroyaltyx in every thread that xtruroyaltyx posts in.

I think its very obvious this team is fragile. Your taking the term too literally.
What I am sayin is that the team doesn't know what they are capable of yet. They lose all confidence after one bad play. Kubiak and the coaching staff have said this REPEATED times. And its very obvious that it is true. When you play football one of the first things they teach you is to forget the bad plays because you cant do anything about it after the fact. We have a hard time forgetting them. We have lost 3 out of the last 20 games! How is this hard to see? We need guidance, and obviously Kubiaks' is starting to pay off.

It is a legitimate question, but how do you ask it without a "what if"? Therefore you can't answer it without a "what if". If there was no "what ifs" in this convo everybody would be happy because we won.

hollywood_texan
10-02-2006, 07:31 PM
Every thread I go to this guy is bashing someone for what they are saying, I am just tired of seeing him bash xtruroyaltyx in every thread that xtruroyaltyx posts in.



I think xtruroyaltyx can take care of himself.

At least that is what I have seen.

thunderkyss
10-02-2006, 07:32 PM
Let's look at it. The D was actually playing well and pressuring Culpepper all day. The Offense had been doing at least some damage via the air. Yes, there were some protection issues.

That's another issue I've had with the old regime..... We've got protection problems, and they very rarely would do anything to ease the pain on David Carr.

Maybe, Kubiak didn't think it was worth a couple more hits to the young'n.... who everyone says was getting pummeled on every pass......

I haven't gone back to look at it though, so I don't know.


But I know Miami should've been expecting us to pass the ball, opening the running lanes, but it didn't work out that way.

TexansSeminole
10-02-2006, 07:36 PM
Positives:
We head into the halftime with a lead, first time this season.
We put the pressure on the Dolphins throughout the 2nd half
We keep the Dolphins offense off the field from taking a lead and demoralizing our team once again.
If we at least make a FG, there is not last play in the game for a tie
We moved the ball and kill the clock, not allowing the Dolphins a chance to come back
Our defense had played well, if an error occured, the Dolphins only scored 3 points against it.
If we lose the ball, Miami still has to try and score, it's possible our defense stops them and causes an interception or fumble as well.
We move the ball from our end in a few plays but have to punt, we've killed the clock and moved them way back.


Negatives

We lose the ball and Miami tries to score another FG, we are only down by 3
Miami scores a TD, but we get the ball the 2nd half to tie right away


I mean anyone can play that what if game, but we will never know. What if Dayne fumbles the ball, what if on our punt it get's blocked. Those are risky gambles as well.

Are you serious? Your whole argument is a "what if". Everything you are saying here is a "what if"? Don't be so hypocritical. How are people going to defend Kubiak's choice without using "what ifs"? Please tell me.

TexansSeminole
10-02-2006, 07:39 PM
I thought Capers was fired, Kubiak was hired, and Carr's contract was extended because the negatives are not an issue. Sounds like the same old thing from the past few years. When are things going to change?

At some point, the concern about the offense being fragile has got to stop.

It needs to stop because this team isn't going to get better with that type of play and they are going to lose a lot of heartbreakers playing that way in the process.

I think it is really a situational thing. At first I didn't agree but when the 2nd half started, I started to realize what he did.

Double Barrel
10-02-2006, 07:40 PM
Every thread I go to this guy is bashing someone for what they are saying, I am just tired of seeing him bash xtruroyaltyx in every thread that xtruroyaltyx posts in.

That's cool, man. They've got history with each other, and xtruroyaltyx can take care of himself. I understand opposing opinions and heated debate. It's just the name calling that we try to avoid, as that makes it personal.

I think its very obvious this team is fragile. Your taking the term too literally.

yeah, I understand the "fragile state of mind" angle. But honestly, I think it is more about getting them to play together as a team more than anything else. Individual mistakes like blown assignments and penalties are what they have to fix. Overcome themselves.

But their quotes - from the coaches on down to the players - during the first three losing games indicate that they are not so much fragile as they are unorganized.

But it is a matter of perspective on our part as fans, so I can understand your take even in disagreement.

What I am sayin is that the team doesn't know what they are capable of yet. They have lost 3 out of the last 20 games! How is this hard to see? They need guidance, and obviously Kubiaks' is starting to pay off.

I agree with you on this. Kubiak's guidance will take us to a winning season, IMO, but it will take some time.

It is a legitimate question, but how do you ask it without a "what if"? Therefore you can't answer it without a "what if". If there was no "what ifs" in this convo everybody would be happy because we won.

yep. That's what I've been saying. :howdy:

aj.
10-02-2006, 07:42 PM
I have no clue whether the answer is in here already - I didn't read the entire thread - but when asked about the last drive before the half, Kubiak basically said that the runs on 1st and 2nd down were per plan. Then on 3rd he said that if they made a 1st down then they would be "aggressive." (insert head scratcher icon thingy here because that 3rd down ended with only 0:30 left on the clock).

Anyway, then the real reason came out. He said he was mindful of the Dolphins having only one TO remaining and *basically was afraid of something bad happening just before half (and bleeding the Phins of their final TO being part of the strategy). He said they felt they had played fairly well in the 1st half and essentially didn't want to screw anything up in their own end going into the locker room.

He did marvel at the fact that Daunte threw it 72 yards in the air on the Hail Mary.

* my interpretation of his words. Not that I agree or disagree with the strategy - because I know there are legions of cats from 'both sides' with paws on mouses ready to pounce on anything and everything in here ..... just relaying what I heard.

Kaiser Toro
10-02-2006, 07:43 PM
I think it is obvious that Carr's passer rating is a direct cause of Kubiak. It isn't about knowing how to manage the two minute drill but more like the game. We have 2 possessions at this point. We have them beat, why gamble it? What happens if they intercept it and score...then we come out in the second half and score? Thats even. Kubiak gives them no chance to score before the half by running the clock. 3-3, with the ball after the half looks pretty good to Kubiak going into this half as opposed to his other games with this team. Why give them a chance to go up on you.

To each his own.

This ain't Pop Warner football trying to hold on to the Harris County championship. This is the NFL. I can't wait until the first time we need to run a two minute drill and we look like Keystone Cops running it. All I want this year to be is a casting call for next year's run at the playoffs. Not taking advantage of on field opportunities in order to preserve a win, by an action in the first half, is a take one step up, one step back situation in my opinion.

I have never recalled being a fan of a team that took this line of thinking and I hope that this is the last time we have this conversation around this subject matter.

TexansSeminole
10-02-2006, 07:46 PM
That's cool, man. They've got history with each other, and xtruroyaltyx can take care of himself. I understand opposing opinions and heated debate. It's just the name calling that we try to avoid, as that makes it personal.

Fair enough.

yeah, I understand the "fragile state of mind" angle. But honestly, I think it is more about getting them to play together as a team more than anything else. Individual mistakes like blown assignments and penalties are what they have to fix. Overcome themselves.

But their quotes - from the coaches on down to the players - during the first three losing games indicate that they are not so much fragile as they are unorganized.

I think the fact they are so unorganized leads to mistakes, which leads to lost confidence and overthinking their mistakes during the game. (They should be thinking about them afterword, but during the game is something coaches try and teach you NOT to do). I think this cycle has been continuing the last few years. Any mistake made and they feel the old team coming back. The losing team. I think Dunta said it best when he said that something needs to change fast or they are going to be the laughing stock of the NFL AGAIN. I think Kubiak wants to get them out of that mindset, cut down on their chances of making mistakes, so this team can take a step forward.

What I am sayin by fragile is, in my mind they are getting to that turning point of a team that makes mistakes to a team that executes well (due to Kubiak). So he doesn't want them falling back into that mindset that they are a team that makes mistakes, and nothing goes right for. Thats why I say fragile. I think his gameplan at this point was he does not want to lose BECAUSE of mistakes, because that sticks with you.

TexansSeminole
10-02-2006, 07:51 PM
To each his own.

This ain't Pop Warner football trying to hold on to the Harris County championship. This is the NFL. I can't wait until the first time we need to run a two minute drill and we look like Keystone Cops running it. All I want this year to be is a casting call for next year's run at the playoffs. Not taking advantage of on field opportunities in order to preserve a win, by an action in the first half, is a take one step up, one step back situation in my opinion.

I have never recalled being a fan of a team that took this line of thinking and I hope that this is the last time we have this conversation around this subject matter.

I understand both sides. I just tend to agree more with what Kubiak did. Now if we did not have the ball to start the second half and he did that...thats a whole new story.

The point you bring up about experience in running the 2 minute drill is interesting, I hadn't thought of that yet.

Texans_Chick
10-02-2006, 09:02 PM
This is what Kubiak says about the subject (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/detail.php?PRKey=2944&section=N%20Latest%20News):

“Yeah, as I said yesterday, my thought right there was if we get a first down there we have our timeouts to use and try to do something with the ball. We had two left; they used two of them. They had one left from going into our third down. We made sure they had to use it, and also to be honest with you, the way our ends of the half had went for a couple weeks, I was very concerned with our team’s mentality going in at halftime. And I wanted to make sure that we did not make a mistake right there. Had we got the first down we could have been aggressive, but we didn’t. We made sure they used their time out; we got off the field feeling good about three to three, and came out and played better in the second half. I was a little concerned about our frame of mind after what I had seen happen the past couple of weeks.”


I know people want the team to grow a set, but Kubiak is just being honest. End of the half has been ungood to the Texans, and it could have been ungood to the Texans had the very close Hail Mary screwed the team, but I am guessing the team has to earn the coaches' confidence, and at least at situations involving the end of the first half, it hasn't yet.


Check out that link. Lots of really good information in it.

(on if he was a Cowboys fan growing up) “No I wasn’t a Cowboys fan, I was an Oilers fan. I worked for the Oilers remember? I worked for them for a couple of years.”

(on whether he hates the Cowboys) “Do I hate the Cowboys? I don’t hate anybody.”

(on whether he hates the Texas Longhorns) “I told you, I don’t hate anybody.”

(on growing up an Oilers fan and how he felt about the Cowboys then) “I told you guys, I don’t hate. My mom and Dad told me not to hate. I worked for the Oilers when I was a kid.”

(on the importance of the Dallas-Houston game to fans) “Hey, you try to win them all.”

(on whether playing the Cowboys means more to him having grown up in Houston ) “Yeah, it means a lot.It does.There is no doubt about that. It will be a special, special game. I thought you guys were going to ask me questions about yesterday.”

No bulletin board material. :cool:

TexansSeminole
10-02-2006, 09:20 PM
“Yeah, as I said yesterday, my thought right there was if we get a first down there we have our timeouts to use and try to do something with the ball. We had two left; they used two of them. They had one left from going into our third down. We made sure they had to use it, and also to be honest with you, the way our ends of the half had went for a couple weeks, I was very concerned with our team’s mentality going in at halftime. And I wanted to make sure that we did not make a mistake right there. Had we got the first down we could have been aggressive, but we didn’t. We made sure they used their time out; we got off the field feeling good about three to three, and came out and played better in the second half. I was a little concerned about our frame of mind after what I had seen happen the past couple of weeks.”

This is pretty much exactly what I have been saying in this thread.

Headlights of a Carr
10-02-2006, 09:39 PM
Most people around me at the stadium were booing. I was one of the few clapping. It was super important for those players (especially the defensive players) to go into the locker room without being behind for the first time. I thought it was a good call by Kubes. When this offense goes an entire half without turning the ball over or putting it on the ground Kubiak will go for it in situations like that. I can't blame him one bit for wanting to make sure he had a share of the lead at halftime.

Finally someone with some sense! I would have never booed the decision that Kubiak made. POTD

Headlights of a Carr
10-02-2006, 09:49 PM
“Yeah, as I said yesterday, my thought right there was if we get a first down there we have our timeouts to use and try to do something with the ball. We had two left; they used two of them. They had one left from going into our third down. We made sure they had to use it, and also to be honest with you, the way our ends of the half had went for a couple weeks, I was very concerned with our team’s mentality going in at halftime. And I wanted to make sure that we did not make a mistake right there. Had we got the first down we could have been aggressive, but we didn’t. We made sure they used their time out; we got off the field feeling good about three to three, and came out and played better in the second half. I was a little concerned about our frame of mind after what I had seen happen the past couple of weeks.”


Sounds very logical to me. This is why he is a Head Coach in this league.

Porky
10-02-2006, 09:53 PM
This is pretty much exactly what I have been saying in this thread.

Yes, you have been parroting the coaches in the whole thread. Ever have an independent thought of your own, or do you want to join the rest of the homer brigade that goes around regurgitating everything the Texans say?

Just because Kubes is short a set of balls, doesn't mean that we as fans should have to put up with this kindergarten crap anymore. When are the training wheels finally going to come off this fanchise? Just a legit question. In year 10 might we see a legit freaking NFL offense, or do I have to go to my grave wondering if we will ever look like something better than my nephews 6th grade football team. I was so sick of this mentality in the previous regime. I was so hopeful when Gary came in and said he would play to win. So what does he do? He surrenders like a horde of school girls instead of running a 2 min drill. I say let's pack some friggin dresses, mascara, and ballet slippers for the fragile minds and egos of our Texans on their trip to Dallas. It might might come in handy at halftime when they hold hands, cry and talk about thier feelings. :brickwall

Runner
10-02-2006, 10:00 PM
Sounds very logical to me.

Logical. Hmmmm.

Try to go 80 yards in two minutes with two time outs left.

or

Run twice, be successful, and try to go 68 yards in 30 seconds with two time outs left.

Charter PSL Fan
10-02-2006, 10:01 PM
With 1:54 remaining we should have tried to score. Especially when we can't milk the clock anyway. Miami almost scored on the last play of the half. It was a high school coaching decision to try and kill the clock.
:twocents:

Vinny
10-02-2006, 10:19 PM
yeah I dont know what's up with you, you dont seem to be a big fan of anything lately, who messed in your cheerios? why all the anger? what favorite player of yours is doing bad or is not on the texans? really, I'd like to know. because since training camp you have been one of the biggest team detractors on this board, no matter what positive happens, you find a way to make it a negative. what gives? cant you just give it a break? the team is what the team is, if it's bad it's bad, you still have the choice to support it or not support it, if you dont support it, why are you here?
I probably don't need to explain why I'm here since I've been here for years and work here for the Texans and you fans. We aren't the same kind of fans and I can assure you that I'll never post like you do (I think that is very safe to say). I talk football and give opinions about what I see and you like to bash anyone who isn't a homer. What's up with me? What's up with you? imo you are a pollyanna fan who likes to bash other fans for speaking their minds for not being blind homers....that's not the kind of guy I am. Obviously you don't like that...but tough luck.

Marcus
10-02-2006, 11:46 PM
Yes, you have been parroting the coaches in the whole thread. Ever have an independent thought of your own, or do you want to join the rest of the homer brigade that goes around regurgitating everything the Texans say?

Just because Kubes is short a set of balls, doesn't mean that we as fans should have to put up with this kindergarten crap anymore. When are the training wheels finally going to come off this fanchise? Just a legit question. In year 10 might we see a legit freaking NFL offense, or do I have to go to my grave wondering if we will ever look like something better than my nephews 6th grade football team. I was so sick of this mentality in the previous regime. I was so hopeful when Gary came in and said he would play to win. So what does he do? He surrenders like a horde of school girls instead of running a 2 min drill. I say let's pack some friggin dresses, mascara, and ballet slippers for the fragile minds and egos of our Texans on their trip to Dallas. It might might come in handy at halftime when they hold hands, cry and talk about thier feelings. :brickwall

:yawn: Sometimes Porky, I wonder if you have problems at home. Your posts seem to be more and more angry, not matter what the subject is.

infantrycak
10-02-2006, 11:56 PM
Yes, you have been parroting the coaches in the whole thread. Ever have an independent thought of your own, or do you want to join the rest of the homer brigade that goes around regurgitating everything the Texans say?

Chill out Porky--the guy had his viewpoint before Kubiak gave his explanation on Monday afternoon.

Kaiser Toro
10-02-2006, 11:58 PM
“Yeah, as I said yesterday, my thought right there was if we get a first down there we have our timeouts to use and try to do something with the ball. We had two left; they used two of them. They had one left from going into our third down. We made sure they had to use it, and also to be honest with you, the way our ends of the half had went for a couple weeks, I was very concerned with our team’s mentality going in at halftime. And I wanted to make sure that we did not make a mistake right there. Had we got the first down we could have been aggressive, but we didn’t. We made sure they used their time out; we got off the field feeling good about three to three, and came out and played better in the second half. I was a little concerned about our frame of mind after what I had seen happen the past couple of weeks.”

Spin all you want coach, that is lame. You extend a QB who has done nothing in his previous four years, you sign Moulds, you bring in your old TE, you bring in Dayne, you trade Morency, you cut last years starting LT for one of your old LT's and you are worried about the mentality of a team that went 2-14 last year after you made wholesale changes? Go get your self a public speaking coach or hire yourself some better assistants. That is an unacceptable excuse as a head coach. Maybe ok for an offensive coordinator, maybe.

infantrycak
10-03-2006, 12:06 AM
I didn't like the call at all but wow some of you folks are worked up.

Vinny
10-03-2006, 12:08 AM
I didn't like the call at all but wow some of you folks are worked up.
I think 4 years of Capersball and playing not to lose has us a bit frazzled.

Runner
10-03-2006, 12:09 AM
Spin all you want coach, that is lame. You extend a QB who has done nothing in his previous four years, you sign Moulds, you bring in your old TE, you bring in Dayne, you trade Morency, you cut last years starting LT for one of your old LT's and you are worried about the mentality of a team that went 2-14 last year after you made wholesale changes? Go get your self a public speaking coach or hire yourself some better assistants. That is an unacceptable excuse as a head coach. Maybe ok for an offensive coordinator, maybe.

Well said.

I didn't like the call at all but wow some of you folks are worked up.

I guess so.

TexansSeminole
10-03-2006, 12:10 AM
Yes, you have been parroting the coaches in the whole thread. Ever have an independent thought of your own, or do you want to join the rest of the homer brigade that goes around regurgitating everything the Texans say?

I'm sorry if my interpretation of what our coach was trying to do correlated with what he was actually going for. I really dont have anything else to say to you about it.

On another note, I doubt this will happen much at all in the future.

Koolbrz
10-03-2006, 12:22 AM
We had PLENTY of time to try to score. We just decided to say skroo it and go into the half at 3-3. This is as pathetic as it gets and this is a brutal brand of football. The Dolphins get the ball with .23 seconds and feel they have enough time to score. At least they play some football....we are scrimmaging.

Okay, Lets say Carr throws an interception and they return it for a TD. The tide changes in there favor and we lose. Guess what, you are still gonna whine and complain. We won the freakin game and its all that matters. Wether you win by 1 pt or 30, a win is a win. Enjoy it dude and stop complaining. You obviously have to much time on your hands to be so critical of one drive. The way things have gone for the Texans this yr. i would have done the same thing. Now i'm just looking forward to kicking some Cowboy Azz!!

Vinny
10-03-2006, 12:24 AM
Okay, Lets say Carr throws an interception and they return it for a TD. The tide changes in there favor and we lose. Guess what, you are still gonna whine and complain. We won the freakin game and its all that matters. Wether you win by 1 pt or 30, a win is a win. Enjoy it dude and stop complaining. You obviously have to much time on your hands to be so critical of one drive. The way things have gone for the Texans this yr. i would have done the same thing. Now i'm just looking forward to kicking some Cowboy Azz!!
You may think a football message board is a big cheerleading session...I think it is a place to talk/share about what we are thinking about...giving our views and our opinions. I know we won the game...but that wasn't the topic of this thread.

this thread was started at the .23 second mark of the second half btw (with the Dolphins taking shots at our end zone)...not after the game.

Texans_Chick
10-03-2006, 12:26 AM
Spin all you want coach, that is lame. You extend a QB who has done nothing in his previous four years, you sign Moulds, you bring in your old TE, you bring in Dayne, you trade Morency, you cut last years starting LT for one of your old LT's and you are worried about the mentality of a team that went 2-14 last year after you made wholesale changes? Go get your self a public speaking coach or hire yourself some better assistants. That is an unacceptable excuse as a head coach. Maybe ok for an offensive coordinator, maybe.

He cut Victor Riley? :shades:

Would you prefer that he lied? The team is fragile. I know it, you know it, they know it. That aint spin, that is just telling it like it is. It coulda blown up in his face but what are you wanting him to say?

He is slowly giving Carr more responsibility and allowing him to do more things, but creating confidence is more of an art than science. And maybe he wants his offense to show him that he should be more confident in them.

I guess I'm just not bunch up on this coaches decision. I was actually more freaked at how we covered the Miami 4th down play, to be honest. It seemed overly aggressive to me.

Kaiser Toro
10-03-2006, 12:31 AM
I didn't like the call at all but wow some of you folks are worked up.

Yeah I am. I just have never identified with that mentality in my sports life as a player, coach or agent. That was an opporunity to get better and if you do not have the players to execute in that situation then you sit them or you expose them to your personnel folks in order to get rid of them and get your type of players in. We had 2 wins in our last 20 starts up to that point and the best you can come up with is three runs and take the ball out of the top ranked passer in the game's hands?

I am happy with the win? Yes. But after that I am worried about where this staff and personnel team is taking us. The players won that game, which is great, but it was against another bad team and the coach's poor decision in the first half almost came back to haunt us. We are not good enough to squander 1:54 seconds at home when the franchise just not needed a win, but needing to find an identity. One of the reasonse Capers was canned was because of that stale conservative identity he trumpeted.

Double Barrel
10-03-2006, 12:32 AM
I didn't like the call at all but wow some of you folks are worked up.

It's football, my friend. :fans: eat/drink/sleep FOOTBALL!

I'm glad to hear Kubiak's explanation, though. I respect his decisions as the head coach, even when I might not agree with it.

However, this does indicate to me that we are taking baby steps, and after 4.25 seasons of mediocrity - and our first game still being our best - I can certainly understand the frustration, animosity, and general bad disposition about losing from fanatical individuals (speaking as one myself).

But the fact of the matter is....Kubiak inherited a franchise suffering from bad decisions and in disarray from the top on down. Even a genius can't fix stupid overnight. It will seriously take him a couple of seasons to get his team in place.

It sucks!, but we're just going to have to be...patient. :wild:

TexansSeminole
10-03-2006, 12:35 AM
But the fact of the matter is....Kubiak inherited a franchise suffering from bad decisions and in disarray from the top on down. Even a genius can't fix stupid overnight. It will seriously take him a couple of seasons to get his team in place.

It sucks!, but we're just going to have to be...patient. :wild:

Yeah, I agree. It's going to take him that long to get the fans to trust him aswell. I think the Texans fanbase can be pretty big when we start making the playoffs.

Kaiser Toro
10-03-2006, 12:37 AM
He cut Victor Riley? :shades:

Would you prefer that he lied? The team is fragile. I know it, you know it, they know it. That aint spin, that is just telling it like it is. It coulda blown up in his face but what are you wanting him to say?

He is slowly giving Carr more responsibility and allowing him to do more things, but creating confidence is more of an art than science. And maybe he wants his offense to show him that he should be more confident in them.

I guess I'm just not bunch up on this coaches decision. I was actually more freaked at how we covered the Miami 4th down play, to be honest. It seemed overly aggressive to me.

Nice catch on Riley. Until you did I may have erased the OLine completely from my memory in 2005.

Lie? No. Tell us and the team you made a mistake and you and the team are learning on the fly. But, he just came out and told his offense they are soft mentally. With that being said, we better bring another Olineman in quick, because all of the skill position players are his. In other words he owns the mental state of this offense.

Really is unbelievable, in my opinion, with both feet in mouth.

Runner
10-03-2006, 12:42 AM
Nice catch on Riley.

I was too polite to say anything.

Until you did I may have erased the OLine completely from my memory in 2005.


The Texans played in 2005? I don't remember that...

Lie? No. Tell us and the team you made a mistake and he and the team are learning on the fly. He just came out and told his offense they are soft mentally. With that being said, we better bring another Olineman in quick, because all of the skill position players are his. In other words he owns the mental state of this offense.


Yep, yep, yep, and yep.

TexansSeminole
10-03-2006, 12:43 AM
In other words he owns the mental state of this offense. Pretty much, he makes the decisions. He calls the plays. Hopefully he can get them in a winning state of mind, however he manages to do it.

Kaiser Toro
10-03-2006, 12:50 AM
Pretty much, he makes the decisions. He calls the plays. Hopefully he can get them in a winning state of mind, however he manages to do it.

And my point is, is that after 9 months with his 1x1's with players, acquisitions, releases, training camps, pre season and 3.45 games he had not made a difference from the lampoon we had last year as a team and staff. I bet you a beef rib and a Big Red that Bob McNair was nonplussed.

Marcus
10-03-2006, 01:14 AM
I frankly don't know why some of you aren't creating "Fire Kubiak" threads already. It's been a long time since I've seen such a fatalistic thread.

To take such a dim view of Kubiak this early on . . . and to give up on him this fast . . . frankly makes me sick.

"Fanatical" DB? heh . . I'd say "going off the deep end" is more like it.

Vinny
10-03-2006, 01:16 AM
I frankly don't know why some of you aren't creating "Fire Kubiak" threads already. It's been a long time since I've seen such a fatalistic thread.

To take such a dim view of Kubiak this early on . . . and to give up on him this fast . . . frankly makes me sick.

"Fanatical" DB? heh . . I'd say "going off the deep end" is more like it.
This isn't a fire anyone thread...this was started at the .23 mark of the second quarter after we tried to let the air out of the ball when we got it with two mins left and two time outs. That was amazingly frustating....I heard the boos on TV. Could you?

Some of you guys have a hard time reading.

Kaiser Toro
10-03-2006, 01:16 AM
I frankly don't know why some of you aren't creating "Fire Kubiak" threads already. It's been a long time since I've seen such a fatalistic thread.

To take such a dim view of Kubiak this early on . . . and to give up on him this fast . . . frankly makes me sick.

"Fanatical" DB? heh . . I'd say "going off the deep end" is more like it.

Who in their right mind would want to fire Kubiak? And who in their right mind would even bring up that notion?

Vinny
10-03-2006, 01:18 AM
This is why I rarely start threads...people have zero ability to comprehend what they are reading.

TexansSeminole
10-03-2006, 01:23 AM
I knew this was going to be a big deal when it happened.

Marcus
10-03-2006, 01:30 AM
This is why I rarely start threads...people have zero ability to comprehend what they are reading.
I comprehend exactly what you're saying. You've repeated it about 50 times in 50 different ways. And you act like you've completely forgotten what other things he's done with the team, but you and Kaiser act like you're gonna hold a grudge against him for the rest of the season no matter what else happens.

I realize the frustration, but damn, you act like you''re about to flip your wig over it! Chill for chrissakes!

Vinny
10-03-2006, 01:33 AM
I comprehend exactly what you're saying. You've repeated it about 50 times in 50 different ways. And you act like you've completely forgotten what other things he's done with the team, but you and Kaiser act like you're gonna hold a grudge against him for the rest of the season no matter what else happens.

I realize the frustration, but damn, you act like you''re about to flip your wig over it! Chill for chrissakes!
I don't act like anything. This thread is a discussion about our 2 min drill at the half...or lack of one. It was started at the half and it's discussing a relevant topic about the team.

Case in point....you have no ability to comprehend what you are reading.

Kaiser Toro
10-03-2006, 01:38 AM
I comprehend exactly what you're saying. You've repeated it about 50 times in 50 different ways. And you act like you've completely forgotten what other things he's done with the team, but you and Kaiser act like you're gonna hold a grudge against him for the rest of the season no matter what else happens.

I realize the frustration, but damn, you act like you''re about to flip your wig over it! Chill for chrissakes!

I call like it like I see it, just as you do. However, one providing a take on a situation does not mean that it scales to everything around the subject of that issue. I am a Kubiak fan and like what he is doing. I do strongly believe he needs to coach them like professionals, not like Pop Warner.

TK_Gamer
10-03-2006, 03:51 AM
I think it is really a situational thing. At first I didn't agree but when the 2nd half started, I started to realize what he did.

I agree, I dint like it at first but then I saw he was protecting his young team that has shown a propensity for letting one mistake change the course and momentum of the game. but it's like going for it on 4th and inches, if you make it your a hero if you dont its "why didnt we punt the ball and have confidence in our defense" so you cant win on decisions like that, but in hindsight kubiak made the right choice for the team. I support his decision.

TK_Gamer
10-03-2006, 03:55 AM
This isn't a fire anyone thread...this was started at the .23 mark of the second quarter after we tried to let the air out of the ball when we got it with two mins left and two time outs. That was amazingly frustating....I heard the boos on TV. Could you?

Some of you guys have a hard time reading.

yes and some guys have a hard time accepting the team we have and that we have to support them and not put every thing under a negative microscope.

Runner
10-03-2006, 06:53 AM
I personally don't see why a thread that is a real football discussion - do you run the 2 minute drill from your own 20 before the half - has to turn into posters looking for agendas in other posters.

It is actually OK to have different opinions on this.

aj.
10-03-2006, 07:40 AM
I wasn't real happy with that series - especially since Miami got a chance for a Hail Mary anyway - but I recall that pass pass pass in a similar situation got Gilbride a punch in the nose. Kubiak was afraid of a similar outcome (giving up points right before half - not a punch in the nose).

A different debate would be raging given the hindsight argument if Carr had fumbled in the pocket or thrown an int deep in our own territory with 1:30 left in the half (or, yes, if a meteor would have hit the earth but that would have been far less likely). Kubiak would then be getting a virtual punch in the nose from some people for not protecting the football deep in his own end when the offense struggled to put up 3 points in the half. That criticism might have even come from some of the same people who are criticizing him for having "no balls" because he didn't 'go for it.'

Kubiak has answered the original question in at least two different forums over the last two days so I get why he did it. I can also see the point of diminishing returns has been triggered for this thread. If y'all want to debate whether Kubiak has balls or not, have at it. I think he probably does.

aj.
10-03-2006, 07:53 AM
This is why I rarely start threads...people have zero ability to comprehend what they are reading.

Don't get too enamored with yourself there big boy. Some of us peons have purty fair comprehenshun skillz.

TheOgre
10-03-2006, 07:59 AM
I personally don't see why a thread that is a real football discussion - do you run the 2 minute drill from your own 20 before the half - has to turn into posters looking for agendas in other posters.

It is actually OK to have different opinions on this.

EXACTLY

sleepwalker
10-03-2006, 08:08 AM
Culpepper and his O ran the 2 min drill at that end of the game and completely owned our defense in about 5 plays...We couldnt sub or even call the right play...It was truely ugly.

Kubiak knew that if we gave them time to run their 2 min offense before the half, they were going to eat up yards and score.

What Kubiak did was keep that from happening and I am glad he had the balls to do it.

Marcus
10-03-2006, 09:11 AM
I personally don't see why a thread that is a real football discussion - do you run the 2 minute drill from your own 20 before the half - has to turn into posters looking for agendas in other posters.

It is actually OK to have different opinions on this.

This might be hard for some to believe, but I remember saying out loud, "C'mon Gary, don't sit on it. Try to go down and get another 3!" But I was going to wait before coming all unglued, to hear Gary's explanation as to why he did it the way he did. But at the same time, I mentally read off in my mind the list of posters who would use it as an excuse to beat him over the head before even listening to what he had to say. And it turned out, I was pretty accurate. So the agenda argument works both ways.

I wasn't real happy with that series - especially since Miami got a chance for a Hail Mary anyway - but I recall that pass pass pass in a similar situation got Gilbride a punch in the nose. Kubiak was afraid of a similar outcome (giving up points right before half - not a punch in the nose).

A different debate would be raging given the hindsight argument if Carr had fumbled in the pocket or thrown an int deep in our own territory with 1:30 left in the half (or, yes, if a meteor would have hit the earth but that would have been far less likely). Kubiak would then be getting a virtual punch in the nose from some people for not protecting the football deep in his own end when the offense struggled to put up 3 points in the half. That criticism might have even come from some of the same people who are criticizing him for having "no balls" because he didn't 'go for it.'.

Yupp! Exactly. That's how I view it. But then what do I know. I don't have the ability to comprehend what I'm reading.

Runner
10-03-2006, 09:21 AM
Talk about both ways - had we lost the game some, not all, posters who are saying he did the right thing would be calling for his head and saying it was obvious it was the wrong thing to do. Many people are experts in hindsight. I'm not directing this at you personally.

Also, had we gone for it and been successful (which doesn't seem to get considered much) it would have been another corner turned for the team.

Kaiser Toro
10-03-2006, 09:30 AM
This might be hard for some to believe, but I remember saying out loud, "C'mon Gary, don't sit on it. Try to go down and get another 3!" But I was going to wait before coming all unglued, to hear Gary's explanation as to why he did it the way he did. But at the same time, I mentally read off in my mind the list of posters who would use it as an excuse to beat him over the head before even listening to what he had to say. And it turned out, I was pretty accurate. So the agenda argument works both ways.

[QUOTE=aj.;460082]I wasn't real happy with that series - especially since Miami got a chance for a Hail Mary anyway - but I recall that pass pass pass in a similar situation got Gilbride a punch in the nose. Kubiak was afraid of a similar outcome (giving up points right before half - not a punch in the nose).

A different debate would be raging given the hindsight argument if Carr had fumbled in the pocket or thrown an int deep in our own territory with 1:30 left in the half (or, yes, if a meteor would have hit the earth but that would have been far less likely). Kubiak would then be getting a virtual punch in the nose from some people for not protecting the football deep in his own end when the offense struggled to put up 3 points in the half. That criticism might have even come from some of the same people who are criticizing him for having "no balls" because he didn't 'go for it.'

Yupp! Exactly. That's how I view it. But then what do I know. I don't have the ability to comprehend what I'm reading.

Since you quoted AJ and take that line I will say without a doubt I would not be criticizing him. I have been an ardent supporter of the guy, especially when many killed him indirectly for wanting to take Mario. By the way I find it unimaginable that a thread has not been started that Mario actually saved the game for the Texans on the two point conversion, while Carr gets a thread that he won the game.

What I liked about Kubiak was that he would be measuring all guys in situations. There was no measure for our offense, specifically our QB, by giving up on a two minute drive. That is what is most frustrating as he passed the buck for another time, the time is NOW to get better one possession at a time. I had a sinking feeling at that moment that the product looked, felt and based on Kubiak's comments later sounded like the disaster of the Capers' regime.

We are all here and continue to be here because we are fans of a particuar team. We spend a lot of time on this board, getting to games, being at the games, going on the road for games, buying seats, etc because we have passion. Most of us have that passion because it is their Houston DNA others have it because we love football and have a closeness to the Houston area or wanted to start with a new franchise at the ground floor. Having a fanatical discussion over a sense of our feeble history, while applying it to the two minute warning and our team's behavior is a germane discussion to where this franchise is going on the field.

Prognosticating about the prognosticators does nothing but pour gasoline on a controlled fire.

real
10-03-2006, 09:38 AM
Talk about both ways - had we lost the game some, not all, posters who are saying he did the right thing would be calling for his head and saying it was obvious it was the wrong thing to do. Many people are experts in hindsight. I'm not directing this at you personally.

Also, had we gone for it and been successful (which doesn't seem to get considered much) it would have been another corner turned for the team.


Had we lost the game, I for one wouldn't have looked back at that series and criticized Kubes for not going for it....There were many more reasons for us to have lost than not going for it at the half.....And the reason that us going for it and actually getting it doesn't get considered much is because....the Texans hadn't given us a reason in two years to make us believe they could, let alone THAT game in which they mustered a grand total 3 points in the first half.....I think it was a risk/reward decision, and the risk far outweighed the reward....even if we'd have gotten the three points that doesn't garauntee a win...and not going for it certainly didn't cost us....It just wasn't worth it at the time...This is Kubiaks career...his livelihood...how he feeds his familia...It's easy for us fans to want to press on the gas...But what if that would have backfired....If you go for it something bad can happen...if you don't...nothing bad can happen....

Instead of looking at it like he didn't have faith in the offense...Maybe he just had faith in his coaching staff to make half time adjustments and come up with a win...go into the half tied, and beat em in the second...we were getting the ball first...I mean it was a gamble...he didn't want to gamble, and I am not sure how you can really say it was the wrong decision...You may have wanted him to be more agressive...but honestly how can you say it was "wrong"...

infantrycak
10-03-2006, 09:43 AM
Culpepper and his O ran the 2 min drill at that end of the game and completely owned our defense in about 5 plays...We couldnt sub or even call the right play...It was truely ugly.

Huh? There were 3 plays--1 a dump-off to RB, 2 a spike to stop the clock and 3 the hail mary. What the Eagles did before the half in under a minute was getting owned what Miami did was take a shot.

beerlover
10-03-2006, 09:46 AM
there would'nt even be this discussion if the Texans showed effeicency and exacution by running the clock out in the 1st half, LOL. At some point this scheme which is predicated on the ground game must have the ability to control the clock, this was one of those instances. Just a case of the will of the coach not being fullfilled by the players, the entire unit taking the blame, not the playcalling :cool:

Frills
10-03-2006, 09:58 AM
While not popular it was smart.

If the RB broke one for 20 yds then you would see a 2 min offense. He didn't so we sat on the ball. If there was a turnover and Miami went up by 7 at the end everyone on the damn board would be calling for heads stating we should have learned from the previous games and just sat on the ball.

Unlike the previous staff, this regime can make adjustments at the half, they know it and utilized it. The minute that a coach or GM makes a decision based on fan reaction, he should be fired.

When the boos came down in the 2nd quarter of the 4th game I thought I was in fuggin Philly. The fans are a classless bunch. No wonder the damn Oilers left.

Reliant Stadium could be one of the greatest homefield advantages in the league, but will never be utilized, because the fans are pieces of crap and will throw the team under the bus when they disagree with the littlest thing.

I wish just once everyone that boo'ed would put on some pads and help the team or go coach a pop warner team and let me know afterwards how friggin smart they are.

A coach has to know what to call not only based on game situations, but as well as the risk/reward as it pertains to the mindset of the team. If there is a3 in 5 chance of getting 3 points at the end of the first half, that posession if you risk going for it is worth 1.667 points. The 2 times it fails would it negatively affect the team by more than the 1.667 points? In that situation hell yes it would. So statistically it was smart to sit on it.

real
10-03-2006, 10:01 AM
While not popular it was smart.

If the RB broke one for 20 yds then you would see a 2 min offense. He didn't so we sat on the ball. If there was a turnover and Miami went up by 7 at the end everyone on the damn board would be calling for heads stating we should have learned from the previous games and just sat on the ball.

Unlike the previous staff, this regime can make adjustments at the half, they know it and utilized it. The minute that a coach or GM makes a decision based on fan reaction, he should be fired.

When the boos came down in the 2nd quarter of the 4th game I thought I was in fuggin Philly. The fans are a classless bunch. No wonder the damn Oilers left.

Reliant Stadium could be one of the greatest homefield advantages in the league, but will never be utilized, because the fans are pieces of crap and will throw the team under the bus when they disagree with the littlest thing.

I wish just once everyone that boo'ed would put on some pads and help the team or go coach a pop warner team and let me know afterwards how friggin smart they are.

A coach has to know what to call not only based on game situations, but as well as the risk/reward as it pertains to the mindset of the team. If there is a3 in 5 chance of getting 3 points at the end of the first half, that posession if you risk going for it is worth 1.667 points. The 2 times it fails would it negatively affect the team by more than the 1.667 points? In that situation hell yes it would. So statistically it was smart to sit on it.

Just a heads up--I don't think the reaction to your post will be too kind.:twocents:

chuckm
10-03-2006, 10:04 AM
Just a heads up--I don't think the reaction to your post will be too kind.:twocents:

If his avatar is any indication, he doesn't care too much about receiving negative reaction .....

Kaiser Toro
10-03-2006, 10:04 AM
The fans are a classless bunch. No wonder the damn Oilers left.

Great line, but hollow as most of your posts as it is has no relevance to some of your target audience.

wags
10-03-2006, 10:23 AM
Huh? There were 3 plays--1 a dump-off to RB, 2 a spike to stop the clock and 3 the hail mary. What the Eagles did before the half in under a minute was getting owned what Miami did was take a shot.


He meant the end of the game, you know when we almost Rammed ourselves again.

Frills
10-03-2006, 10:24 AM
Just a heads up--I don't think the reaction to your post will be too kind.:twocents:

Studies have shown that a college fan will never bet against their team, but a pro football fan will bet against their team without thinking twice. College fans live and die with their team, pro fans like to kill their teams, no matter how the team does they find something to nitpick. Houston is a bandwagon city, they support teams that do well, but don't support, or rip the hell out of teams who struggle. Reliant was 80-85% full sunday, last year it dropped to <50%. Sports here has become more of a "take a client to a game" versus true fan support.

Look back at draft day, people booed Mario when picked. Sure most wanted Bush/Young but the fact remained Mario was a Texan and you should support him. Bashing a decision after the fact doesn't do jack. Complaining that a player isn't living up to his bonus doesn't mean jack. Look at Philly when they drafted McNabb, now look where Ricky is, the people who booed look damn intelligent now don't they?

I guess its just a helluvalot easier to piss and moan than to support a struggling team.

TK_Gamer
10-03-2006, 10:26 AM
Great line, but hollow as most of your posts as it is has no relevance to some of your target audience.

I think there is quite a bit of relavence actually. because alot of the audience uses the same knee-jerk negative reaction to every decision thats made or not made or find a way to turn every positive into a negative. but all that being said in reference to the thread, at least we didnt go for it, make it to the goal line and go for it on 4th down and lose by a field goal. indy 31 jets 28 ouch :(

infantrycak
10-03-2006, 10:30 AM
He meant the end of the game, you know when we almost Rammed ourselves again.

Oops.

Kaiser Toro
10-03-2006, 10:33 AM
Studies have shown that a college fan will never bet against their team, but a pro football fan will bet against their team without thinking twice. College fans live and die with their team, pro fans like to kill their teams, no matter how the team does they find something to nitpick. Houston is a bandwagon city, they support teams that do well, but don't support, or rip the hell out of teams who struggle. Reliant was 80-85% full sunday, last year it dropped to <50%. Sports here has become more of a "take a client to a game" versus true fan support.

Look back at draft day, people booed Mario when picked. Sure most wanted Bush/Young but the fact remained Mario was a Texan and you should support him. Bashing a decision after the fact doesn't do jack. Complaining that a player isn't living up to his bonus doesn't mean jack. Look at Philly when they drafted McNabb, now look where Ricky is, the people who booed look damn intelligent now don't they?

I guess its just a helluvalot easier to piss and moan than to support a struggling team.

I do not think I have ever seen a post that I am more "anti" in my time on this board. Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill. So we have gone from debating a decision on the two minute drill to Houston fans being awful? Very nice.

Frills
10-03-2006, 10:37 AM
I do not think I have ever seen a post that I am more "anti" in my time on this board. Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill. So we have gone from debating a decision on the two minute drill to Houston fans being awful? Very nice.

I probbably should have made a new thread with those thoughts, but take a look back at most of the threads about Carr, the draft, and most decisions the Texans have made, and you'll see why this is frustrating.

Kaiser Toro
10-03-2006, 10:38 AM
I think there is quite a bit of relavence actually. because alot of the audience uses the same knee-jerk negative reaction to every decision thats made or not made or find a way to turn every positive into a negative. but all that being said in reference to the thread, at least we didnt go for it, make it to the goal line and go for it on 4th down and lose by a field goal. indy 31 jets 28 ouch :(

Context must be used. As crazy as it sounds there are Texans fans who could give a rats butt about the Oilers.

Runner
10-03-2006, 10:48 AM
I think most people see positives and negatives about the team, just not the same set as those they are arguing with. It is easy to fall into the trap that “everyone on the board always says yada yada yada” because that is what it feels like sometimes.

For instance I see some good positives from Carr, Dre, and Moulds and very good things from Demeco, just to name a few. I also see some negatives in the secondary that we just couldn’t fix this off-season with all our other priorities and some big negatives in the o-line that I thought we were addressing but apparently didn’t address very well.

I see some good and bad play calls/executions. I’ve been one who has called for more risk taking from Carr over the years – throw the ball to Dre in coverage every now and then rather than take a sack for example – so I like that. I wanted to go for it in at the end of the first half last game. I’m glad to see the downfield passing this year. I like to see the tight ends finally involved in the passing offense. I don’t like not blitzing because it is too risky to put pressure on the secondary.

I don’t think anyone on the board is always wrong. I know no one is always right. I post my opinions and try to defend them, but in the end they are my opinions, and the good football oriented discussions are fun. Heck, I’ve even gone so far to change my mind and therefore become (hopefully) a more knowledgeable fan. I am willing to listen to and consider well reasoned and supported arguments.

The ones that drive me crazy are the ones posters who think they are always “realistic” while everyone else is either too positive or too negative. Realistic doesn’t mean “I agree with myself”.

Deep breath…I feel better now.

Bamaborn-Texasbred
10-03-2006, 10:50 AM
The fans are a classless bunch. No wonder the damn Oilers left.



Get some history on the Oilers before you make an uninformed statement like this. The Oilers left town because just a few years after Harris County added 10,000 seats to the Dome, Bud Adams demanded that the city build him a downtown facility at no cost to him. He said he would move his team if he didn't get it. (great public relations guy that Bud Adams) They told him to start packing, and as much as I loved the Oilers, I couldn't blame them.

Mr teX
10-03-2006, 10:53 AM
We had PLENTY of time to try to score. We just decided to say skroo it and go into the half at 3-3. This is as pathetic as it gets and this is a brutal brand of football. The Dolphins get the ball with .23 seconds and feel they have enough time to score. At least they play some football....we are scrimmaging.

We may have had PLENTY of time to score, but considering how we've played @ the end of the half all of our other games, whether it was defense or offense, I think Kubes just wanted to get into the half without any big momentum swinging; (i.e. fumble snap, int. etc.). I thought that we might take a shot too, but i understood why he did what he did.

Kaiser Toro
10-03-2006, 10:53 AM
I probbably should have made a new thread with those thoughts, but take a look back at most of the threads about Carr, the draft, and most decisions the Texans have made, and you'll see why this is frustrating.

This is an outlet for fans to share their fanatical takes. There are two things constant in my time on this board - an awful product and loyal fans. Why any one would turn the team's ineptness, not this specific situation, on the die hards is beyond me. I vent my frustration as a release to keep me coming back. I never point it at the fans, because without all of my comrades on this board, there would be no reciprocity of passion and therefore the fanaticism would die.

Losing stinks. Winning is nice. Winning in a different way than we won under Capers will be the penultimate win for me in our history. If you want to talk about Carr's great fake at the goal line and want to talk about Mario, the much maligned and ripped down rookie on this board, saving the game on that two point conversion start a thread. If you do not want to talk about the two minute drive you do not have to pop in, the thread will eventually go to page 2 and fall into obscurity. Passion is an awesome thing and hard for some to understand, if you do not like the volume of that passion then turn the channel or control it with kindness, but using others passion against them will do you no favors in achieveing your goal of having good fans.

Runner
10-03-2006, 10:54 AM
I probably should have made a new thread with those thoughts, but take a look back at most of the threads about Carr, the draft, and most decisions the Texans have made, and you'll see why this is frustrating.

Yes it's frustrating, but any decision made is going to have positive and negative reactions. It is just that the people that don't like a particular decision tend to be more vocal about it. Sometimes senselessly.

I just try not to fall into the trap that since someone is negative about one thing that they are negative about everything. I say try because I have fallen for it before. Mea culpa.

real
10-03-2006, 10:59 AM
The ones that drive me crazy are the ones posters who think they are always “realistic” while everyone else is either too positive or too negative. Realistic doesn’t mean “I agree with myself”.


Why would you argue if you thought you were wrong ?? Who doesn't always think they're being "realistic" ??? If you don't think you are being realistic why are you even arguing??? There are certain things such as the topic being discussed in this thread, that I am just not going to budge on...and i'm sure that there are topics that others feel the same way about.....However I listen to everyone....and I have changed my mind on certain things.....but for the most part I'm going to "agree with myself"...

Marcus
10-03-2006, 11:01 AM
I do not think I have ever seen a post that I am more "anti" in my time on this board. Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill. So we have gone from debating a decision on the two minute drill to Houston fans being awful? Very nice.

I probbably should have made a new thread with those thoughts, but take a look back at most of the threads about Carr, the draft, and most decisions the Texans have made, and you'll see why this is frustrating.

Context must be used.
Kaiser Toro is correct, but I can sympathize with Frills' frustration.

Maybe this goes along with following a struggling NFL team, but there seem's like there's an underlying fundamental mistrust among a lot of posters on this message board regarding other posters ability and desire to talk about an issue objectively, without bringing in a subconcious axe to grind.

I am probably pretty much guilty of this myself, and I got to try to do better.

jerek
10-03-2006, 11:02 AM
While not popular it was smart.

If the RB broke one for 20 yds then you would see a 2 min offense. He didn't so we sat on the ball. If there was a turnover and Miami went up by 7 at the end everyone on the damn board would be calling for heads stating we should have learned from the previous games and just sat on the ball.

Unlike the previous staff, this regime can make adjustments at the half, they know it and utilized it. The minute that a coach or GM makes a decision based on fan reaction, he should be fired.

When the boos came down in the 2nd quarter of the 4th game I thought I was in fuggin Philly. The fans are a classless bunch. No wonder the damn Oilers left.

Reliant Stadium could be one of the greatest homefield advantages in the league, but will never be utilized, because the fans are pieces of crap and will throw the team under the bus when they disagree with the littlest thing.

I wish just once everyone that boo'ed would put on some pads and help the team or go coach a pop warner team and let me know afterwards how friggin smart they are.

A coach has to know what to call not only based on game situations, but as well as the risk/reward as it pertains to the mindset of the team. If there is a3 in 5 chance of getting 3 points at the end of the first half, that posession if you risk going for it is worth 1.667 points. The 2 times it fails would it negatively affect the team by more than the 1.667 points? In that situation hell yes it would. So statistically it was smart to sit on it.

While I disagree with your application of statistics -- I would figure that just about any of our drives has a 3 in 5 chance of succeeding and a chance of a turnover and opponent's score, so what, we just punt it away? -- and your conclusion as to sitting on the ball being the smart thing to do, I do understand and agree with what you are saying about fans booing. I never boo my team and I think it totally classless and spoiled-bratish that so many of our people will boo David Carr, the coaches, the owner, and really any player for just about anything, including a bad haircut. For pete's sake, sell your tickets or give them away if you're going to come to the game and boo. It makes zero sense to pay so much for something you are going to be pissed off about, and the food sucks too. My thought is if you're going to pay for the game, you might as well enjoy yourself and support your team regardless.

Runner
10-03-2006, 11:12 AM
Why would you argue if you thought you were wrong ?? Who doesn't always think they're being "realistic" ??? If you don't think you are being realistic why are you even arguing??? There are certain things such as the topic being discussed in this thread, that I am just not going to budge on...and i'm sure that there are topics that others feel the same way about.....However I listen to everyone....and I have changed my mind on certain things.....but for the most part I'm going to "agree with myself"...

People can look into their own motivations and see if they are being realistic. For instance, I bet some of the people who predicted 10, 11, 12, or even 13 wins know they were being more "hopeful" than "realistic" based on last season, new coaches, and some new players.

On the other hand, people can be too negative too. Some people may complain about a coach's plan or a players on-field decision because they don't like the results, but many of them know that "realistically" the coach and players know more about what is going on than they do.

I didn't mean to imply that people argue when they know are wrong (at least not most of the time). But if both sides are "right" and "realistic" - why is there an argument? I'm not even going to address the gray area between absolutes.

real
10-03-2006, 11:15 AM
I didn't mean to imply that people argue when they know are wrong (at least not most of the time). But if both sides are "right" and "realistic" - why is there an argument? I'm not even going to address the gray area between absolutes.

That's where the argument starts...Both sides ARE right...or atleast both sides think they are....

But I don't disagree with your main point...

TK_Gamer
10-03-2006, 11:16 AM
Context must be used. As crazy as it sounds there are Texans fans who could give a rats butt about the Oilers.

actually I think I was being a little too ironical, as the relavance was to the inferred audience of this board, not to whether or not they used to be oilers fans.

Double Barrel
10-03-2006, 12:14 PM
"Fanatical" DB? heh . . I'd say "going off the deep end" is more like it.

Fanaticism is extremist, which is always close to the edge of something or another. ;)

I get a kick out of the folks dogging the booing, though. What, did you expect them to cheer the fact that our sub-par, mediocre offense lacked the faith of the head coach to run a two minute drill?

Honestly, guys, that's a reality check that some weren't prepared for, and it's a scientific fact that this particular realization causes spontaneous "booing" sounds in humans as a natural defense to prevent heads from exploding.

Booing is a relief valve....without it.... :bomb: <---he should've booed

Frills
10-03-2006, 12:36 PM
Fanaticism is extremist, which is always close to the edge of something or another. ;)

I get a kick out of the folks dogging the booing, though. What, did you expect them to cheer the fact that our sub-par, mediocre offense lacked the faith of the head coach to run a two minute drill?

Honestly, guys, that's a reality check that some weren't prepared for, and it's a scientific fact that this particular realization causes spontaneous "booing" sounds in humans as a natural defense to prevent heads from exploding.

Booing is a relief valve....without it.... :bomb: <---he should've booed


Not running the 2 min drill wasn't because of the mediocre offense, but rather the mental state of the D if our drill failed and Mia. scored. Add another 30 secs to the clock at the end of the half, I think Miami would have put points on the board.

Stampede
10-03-2006, 12:51 PM
Not running the 2 min drill wasn't because of the mediocre offense, but rather the mental state of the D if our drill failed and Mia. scored. Add another 30 secs to the clock at the end of the half, I think Miami would have put points on the board.

That was my thought also. I would have like to see us with a different play on 3rd down becuz they were gonna call timeout anyway. But i agreed with the first two running plays. Its hard to question the play calling when a team wins the game, but one or two plays that go the other way and we lose. So I can understand why people feel strongly about both sides of the issue. :bomb:

thunderkyss
10-03-2006, 01:29 PM
Not running the 2 min drill wasn't because of the mediocre offense, but rather the mental state of the D if our drill failed and Mia. scored. Add another 30 secs to the clock at the end of the half, I think Miami would have put points on the board.

but not going for it is like saying you know our offense will fail...... hence the lack of faith in our mediocre offense... which failed to get a first down...

hollywood_texan
10-03-2006, 01:35 PM
Not running the 2 min drill wasn't because of the mediocre offense, but rather the mental state of the D if our drill failed and Mia. scored. Add another 30 secs to the clock at the end of the half, I think Miami would have put points on the board.

Let me understand this, you believe the Texans don't have a mediocre offense, in addition they have the highest rated QB in the league, and they don't run the 2 minute drill because of the defense and putting them in a bad position.

Ummmm...

Maybe the offense only getting 3 points in the first half had something to do with it?

Getting only 3 point in the first half against a marginal defense like the Dolphins, that isn't mediocre at best?

I just don't get it.

Kubiak's decision was more about the offense than the defense.

Since when has an offensive minded coach even cared about the defense and putting them in a bad position?

That is a great question for Buddy Ryan to answer!!! I bet he would come out swinging!!! Bring back Buddy Ryan!!!!

real
10-03-2006, 01:38 PM
Getting only 3 point in the first half against a marginal defense like the Dolphins, that isn't mediocre at best?


Now there's an argument....

TexansSeminole
10-03-2006, 02:19 PM
and the food sucks too

Hey, hey, watch it! I like Reliant food :drool: ...it's just too damn expensive. :money:

SESupergenius
10-03-2006, 03:51 PM
I am tired of this attitude that we "can't do this" and we "can't do that". We've seen that attitute, it got us 2-14 and when we finally let go, out team does well. We need to get away from the loser mentality and thinking that we are not very good because if we keep saying and doing things as the status quo, then guess what, we will never break out. I want us to actually use our 2-minute offense WHEN THERE ARE 2 MINUTES left in the game, wow, what a concept. Fact is, we were 1 play from being tied up in the game and we just didn't play to win. The defense was call upon to blitz more this game, well the other half of this equation is for the offense to score and make plays.

Battle Red Flash
10-03-2006, 05:25 PM
We had PLENTY of time to try to score. We just decided to say skroo it and go into the half at 3-3. This is as pathetic as it gets and this is a brutal brand of football. The Dolphins get the ball with .23 seconds and feel they have enough time to score.

I agree totally. Just saw this thread. I was SO MAD. I almost booed, and I never boo the home team. But I was mighty close. Please, Kubes don't play not to lose. Play to win.

HOU-TEX
10-03-2006, 05:58 PM
I agree totally. Just saw this thread. I was SO MAD. I almost booed, and I never boo the home team. But I was mighty close. Please, Kubes don't play not to lose. Play to win.

According to what he said yesterday, he's going to be more aggressive. We'll see.

(on the end of the first half) “Yeah, as I said yesterday, my thought right there was if we get a first down there we have our timeouts to use and try to do something with the ball. We had two left; they used two of them. They had one left from going into our third down. We made sure they had to use it, and also to be honest with you, the way our ends of the half had went for a couple weeks, I was very concerned with our team’s mentality going in at halftime. And I wanted to make sure that we did not make a mistake right there. Had we got the first down we could have been aggressive, but we didn’t. We made sure they used their time out; we got off the field feeling good about three to three, and came out and played better in the second half. I was a little concerned about our frame of mind after what I had seen happen the past couple of weeks.”

(on whether he wants to be that conservative) “No, we want to be aggressive, but the point I am trying to make is (that) I think we had time to be aggressive if we get a first down. It was third and four; we ran the ball, (and) we didn’t get it. If we get the first down there, we have our time outs and I think there is 49 seconds left, if I’m right, or 46 or something like that. There is plenty of time for us to throw the ball down the field, but it didn’t happen that way.”

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