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AggieTexanFan
09-30-2006, 01:45 AM
Darren Woodson picked the Texans to win by saying, "I going with the Texans because they have the best QB in the league"

I was surprise to hear a statement like this come from ESPN

Just thought I'd share my shock, but I loved it

SnakeOilTanker
09-30-2006, 01:59 AM
has Darren Woodson been in TO's med cabinbet?

I love Carr...but...wow

Malloy
09-30-2006, 02:28 AM
The cheque from Bob McNair worked!! :)

Grid
09-30-2006, 02:56 AM
Statistically he is. Statistics obviously only tell half the story though.

But, fact of the matter is that Carr has been one of the better QBs so far this year. Take away the couple of botched snaps, and he has played very effectively.

Obviously he isnt the best QB in the league.. but he doesnt deserve your disdain either. Give credit where it is due.

powerfuldragon
09-30-2006, 10:28 AM
no sarcasm in his voice?

TFL
09-30-2006, 11:05 AM
Darren Woodson picked the Texans to win by saying, "I going with the Texans because they have the best QB in the league"

I was surprise to hear a statement like this come from ESPN

Just thought I'd share my shock, but I loved it

He did not say the best QB in the league he said he was a good QB.

gtexan02
09-30-2006, 11:50 AM
Both Mike and Mike picked us on their radio show. Both said that Carr would win this one. Stats can be very misleading I guess

Nawzer
09-30-2006, 12:11 PM
What league is NLF? Lol. Good to hear someone giving us props.

TexansLucky13
09-30-2006, 12:30 PM
Darren Woodson picked the Texans to win by saying, "I going with the Texans because they have the best QB in the league"

I was surprise to hear a statement like this come from ESPN

Just thought I'd share my shock, but I loved it

I've known that for four years now..... :homer:

GP
09-30-2006, 12:54 PM
Another situation of a few guys "thinking" that the matchup, on paper, warrants them picking Texans.

I love my team. I would "like" to say that I pick the Texans, too.

However.....I think we're worse than the Dolphins. We're better than the Raiders and possibly the Titans, but we are not better than the Dolphins.

Face it: The Texans are the cure for an ailing team that needs a win, and Miami gets a win against us, making Culpepper look like a Pro-Bowler again. If we could not pressure a member of the AARP Senior Citizens Organization (Brunell) what makes you think we can pressure a handicapper in Culpepper?

No pass rush. No blitzes. All day for Culpepper to pick us apart on so many different levels. What's sad is that if you even get just a little pressure on Culpepper, he makes bad decisions and looks awful...but we won't generate the same pressure that other teams are using (and using against US, I might add). Richard Smith is gone after this season...a bad idea that looked good at the time.

Keep dreaming, guys.

That's the last "love" you're going to get from any NFL sports show analyst after the Texans bomb yet another chance to make some progress against a weak team.

blockhead83
09-30-2006, 01:10 PM
Another situation of a few guys "thinking" that the matchup, on paper, warrants them picking Texans.

I love my team. I would "like" to say that I pick the Texans, too.

However.....I think we're worse than the Dolphins. We're better than the Raiders and possibly the Titans, but we are not better than the Dolphins.

Face it: The Texans are the cure for an ailing team that needs a win, and Miami gets a win against us, making Culpepper look like a Pro-Bowler again. If we could not pressure a member of the AARP Senior Citizens Organization (Brunell) what makes you think we can pressure a handicapper in Culpepper?

No pass rush. No blitzes. All day for Culpepper to pick us apart on so many different levels. What's sad is that if you even get just a little pressure on Culpepper, he makes bad decisions and looks awful...but we won't generate the same pressure that other teams are using (and using against US, I might add). Richard Smith is gone after this season...a bad idea that looked good at the time.

Keep dreaming, guys.

That's the last "love" you're going to get from any NFL sports show analyst after the Texans bomb yet another chance to make some progress against a weak team.

Hate to say it, but I agree with this. Miami's offense is probably about on par with ours, but they have a much better defense than we do. I don't see how we pull this one out. Our QB play has been better than ours, but it's still very inconsistent due to lack of opportunities and no run game to support it.

Anyways, it is good to see Carr getting some love after these past 4 years of abuse. Skewed statistics or no, he's showing us that he can be a good NFL QB.

TK_Gamer
09-30-2006, 01:17 PM
Hate to say it, but I agree with this. Miami's offense is probably about on par with ours, but they have a much better defense than we do. I don't see how we pull this one out. Our QB play has been better than ours, but it's still very inconsistent due to lack of opportunities and no run game to support it.

Anyways, it is good to see Carr getting some love after these past 4 years of abuse. Skewed statistics or no, he's showing us that he can be a good NFL QB.

skewed? havent you seen the breakdown by quarter of his qb rating? his highest rating is in the 1st quarter, not the fourth like everyone assumes. some people want carr to be the reason we are doing bad so much they will twist anything in their favor. I think it's shameful.

sleepwalker
09-30-2006, 01:26 PM
has Darren Woodson been in TO's med cabinbet?


HaHa that was a good 1!

OzzO
09-30-2006, 03:44 PM
Hate to say it, but I agree with this. Miami's offense is probably about on par with ours, but they have a much better defense than we do....

Are they really or is it the skewed statistics as well, for us to play against Philly, Indy, and Wash (all within the top 10 offenses - Wash at #11) but then Miaimi has lost to Pittsburgh 28-17, Buffalo 16-6, and barely took Tennessee 13-10 (all bottom 10 offenses with Buffalo at #11 from the bottom)

May be skewed there as well.... but agree, our is pretty defensive.... smelling. No more read and react defense, you've switched to 4-3... let's see some smash mouth.

cbnjwill
09-30-2006, 03:51 PM
i think woodson was hanging out with t.o. taking pills i dont think he would make such a stupid statement but if he did he should be fired best qb in the league thats absurd. carr is the 3rd best qb in his own division.

Aztequila
09-30-2006, 04:19 PM
i think woodson was hanging out with t.o. taking pills i dont think he would make such a stupid statement but if he did he should be fired best qb in the league thats absurd. carr is the 3rd best qb in his own division.

I think Carr is a better QB than Leftwich.

blockhead83
09-30-2006, 04:31 PM
skewed? havent you seen the breakdown by quarter of his qb rating? his highest rating is in the 1st quarter, not the fourth like everyone assumes. some people want carr to be the reason we are doing bad so much they will twist anything in their favor. I think it's shameful.

Dude, I gave Carr props, I think he's playing very well, but if you don't think his numbers are somewhat skewed I don't know what to tell you. He does have a great 1st and 4th quarter passer rating, but he got 3 TD's playing against a prevent D in the 4th quarter against Indi. If he could get that kind of production out of his few opportunities in the 2nd and third quarters when the game was still in reach then he'd be getting alot more praise. It's difficult to put up great numbers when you only touch the ball once a quarter, but if he doesn't find a way to be productive then, when the game is still on the line, then those late minute TD drives will only look nice in the stats column. If I'm correct he has 2 TD's (both on opening drives) in the 1st quarter, and 4 in the 4th. Without some help from the running game we're dead meat if he can't learn how to turn it up during the flow of the game.

dantem
09-30-2006, 05:41 PM
carr is the 3rd best qb in his own division.

What do you base that statement on?

Total touchdowns?
Total passing Yards?
Completion Percentages?
Interceptions?
Overall QB Rating?

Or your own assesment.

Texas
09-30-2006, 05:50 PM
It be on my own assesment

PoolMaster21
09-30-2006, 07:00 PM
skewed? havent you seen the breakdown by quarter of his qb rating? his highest rating is in the 1st quarter, not the fourth like everyone assumes. some people want carr to be the reason we are doing bad so much they will twist anything in their favor. I think it's shameful.

Interesting! Where can you get the breakdown by quarter?

:spy:

NEROtheZERO
09-30-2006, 07:09 PM
Interesting! Where can you get the breakdown by quarter?

:spy:

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/306268/splits/2006
Q1-154.5
Q2-81.1
Q3-78
Q4-122.7

TexansLucky13
09-30-2006, 07:26 PM
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/306268/splits/2006
Q1-154.5
Q2-81.1
Q3-78
Q4-122.7

David is God. :jumpbanan

beerlover
09-30-2006, 07:44 PM
what the Texans need is some tough love :dangit: y'all pile on now ya hear :ok:

the Texans need to prove it on the field tomorrow, point blank the Texans NEED to win more than the Dophins, this is a statement game got it :shades:

AggieTexanFan
10-02-2006, 12:07 PM
Well I guess he made a good call

thunderkyss
10-02-2006, 02:02 PM
Dude, I gave Carr props, I think he's playing very well, but if you don't think his numbers are somewhat skewed I don't know what to tell you. He does have a great 1st and 4th quarter passer rating, but he got 3 TD's playing against a prevent D in the 4th quarter against Indi. If he could get that kind of production out of his few opportunities in the 2nd and third quarters when the game was still in reach then he'd be getting alot more praise. It's difficult to put up great numbers when you only touch the ball once a quarter, but if he doesn't find a way to be productive then, when the game is still on the line, then those late minute TD drives will only look nice in the stats column. If I'm correct he has 2 TD's (both on opening drives) in the 1st quarter, and 4 in the 4th. Without some help from the running game we're dead meat if he can't learn how to turn it up during the flow of the game.

I love David Carr..... one day, I hope other fans will be saying, but so & so (their QB) doesn't do XXXXX (whatever) Like David Carr does... he puts his team in a situation to win, he makes things happen when there is nothing there.

As far as I can tell, the QB rating is saying that he isn't giving the game away. that he isn't losing the game. He's completing more passes than not, He's throwing more TDs than INTs. I don't have any problem with David's QB rating, I don't believe they are skewed.

What people think about QB rating is a bit skewed. Charlie Batch could step in for BigBen, for one Qtr. throw a couple of completions, and a TD, and his rating would be higher. It doesn't mean he is a better QB.

I think David leaves big plays on the field. I was very critical of David, because he played most of last year scared.... understandably, he had good reason. But I've never seen a QB get to that level, and come back. David, so far IMHO, has done something Jake hasn't. When the Pressure is on, David is still standing in the pocket looking downfield, even though he is getting sacked with the same consistency as previous years, and from my point of view, it isn't getting any better. So Kudos to David...... I firmly believe now, that he is as mentally tough, as he is physically.

When Kubiak says that he needs David to play all 4 Qtrs like he has the 1st & 4th Qtrs, I think that is what he means...... getting those big plays, and not settling for the underneath route, or the dump-off. AJ & Eric are big fast recievers. The guys who can run with them are too small to challenge the ball, with proper placement. The guys who can match them physically are too slow to keep up. Same thing with Putz......

Against Washington, David did a good job of getting the WRs involved early in the game. Yesterday against Miami, I think he did about the same. Not bad by any means........ taking what the defense gave him.

I can't think of any big plays that he missed against Miami, but I think his ball placement was where he could have played better.

thunderkyss
10-02-2006, 02:03 PM
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/306268/splits/2006
Q1-154.5
Q2-81.1
Q3-78
Q4-122.7

Scripted plays in the first Qtr, and Garbage time...... how does this counter the David's QB rating is skewed argument??

NEROtheZERO
10-02-2006, 02:11 PM
Scripted plays in the first Qtr, and Garbage time...... how does this counter the David's QB rating is skewed argument??

I don't see how that is relevant, especially the scripted plays. If he executes he executes.

Also, 2 TDs in 5 minutes agains in the fourth quarter against the starting defense of Miami in a close game. There was no trash time and Carr still made it happen.

thunderkyss
10-02-2006, 02:21 PM
I don't see how that is relevant, especially the scripted plays. If he executes he executes.

Also, 2 TDs in 5 minutes agains in the fourth quarter against the starting defense of Miami in a close game. There was no trash time and Carr still made it happen.

Scripted plays.... I criticize him for his decision making ability..... scripted plays, and the hurry up offense makes it easier for him to make decisions..... as backwards as that sounds, that's the way I see it.


didn't know we were only talking about the Miami game. the 4th against Miami wasn't Garbage time....... those guys were still trying to win the game.

NEROtheZERO
10-02-2006, 02:29 PM
Scripted plays.... I criticize him for his decision making ability..... scripted plays, and the hurry up offense makes it easier for him to make decisions..... as backwards as that sounds, that's the way I see it.


didn't know we were only talking about the Miami game. the 4th against Miami wasn't Garbage time....... those guys were still trying to win the game.

Well, we're talking about every game.

Here are his new ratings after the Miami game. Last week's ratings in parentheses for comparison.

Q1-123.1 (154.5)
Q2-86.1 (81.1)
Q3-81.4 (78)
Q4-126.7 (122.7)

chuckm
10-02-2006, 02:29 PM
Both Mike and Mike picked us on their radio show. Both said that Carr would win this one. Stats can be very misleading I guess


They obviously do not read this message board ....

Vinny
10-02-2006, 02:33 PM
Carr's play has been awful before this year but he is stepping up large and playing up to his skill set now. Kubiak has been great for him...and us (long suffering fans). It's been a long wait.

infantrycak
10-02-2006, 02:36 PM
Scripted plays....

Scripted plays doesn't mean simpler plays or different plays, it simply means the coaches know ahead of time what they are going to call. The QB still has to make the pre and post snap reads on the plays.

chuckm
10-02-2006, 02:37 PM
Scripted plays doesn't mean simpler plays or different plays, it simply means the coaches know ahead of time what they are going to call. The QB still has to make the pre and post snap reads on the plays.

Thank you .....

You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Infantrycak again.

thunderkyss
10-02-2006, 03:00 PM
Carr's play has been awful before this year but he is stepping up large and playing up to his skill set now. Kubiak has been great for him...and us (long suffering fans). It's been a long wait.

I understand... & I wrote as backwards as that may sound...

but for some reason, We score on our first drive(not counting the Miami Game) but fail to score, till we get into hurry up mode.

i don't know what the dynamic of it is, but it appears that things run smoother when the plays are scripted.

I never said it was easier.

David has High ratings in the first Qtr, and in the final Qtr.

Edit: I was wrong, he completed two passes in the second series....... he was 0-4 in the third series which was in the second Qtr.

I believe last week, he was perfect on the 3 or 4 play first drive, then 0-4 on the second.... perfect for the scripted series.... not so perfect on the other... both in the first Qtr.

Besides, it is not my opinion that his QB rating is skewed..... i was just pointing out a couple of reasons others may believe it is.

Vinny
10-02-2006, 03:04 PM
F the ratings....you guys are too wrapped up in stats. Football isn't like baseball where you can crunch numbers and tell who the best players are. Carr is playing better when he converts 3rd downs...doesn't kill drives taking goofy sacks....not putting the offense in 2nd and 16...stuff like that. Not because he completes 11 of 14 5 yard tosses. Stats are for baseball. Football is a sport you have to watch to figure out who is playing well. I think fantasy football is diseasing the minds of football fans today. There is way too much reliance on stats by too many fans.

TEXANS84
10-02-2006, 03:12 PM
And to think my friends were laughing at me when I picked Carr in the 10th round of the FF draft. He's a solid 12-20 points per week.

HOU-TEX
10-02-2006, 03:14 PM
F the ratings....you guys are too wrapped up in stats. Football isn't like baseball where you can crunch numbers and tell who the best players are. Carr is playing better when he converts 3rd downs...doesn't kill drives taking goofy sacks....not putting the offense in 2nd and 16...stuff like that. Not because he completes 11 of 14 5 yard tosses. Stats are for baseball. Football is a sport you have to watch to figure out who is playing well. I think fantasy football is diseasing the minds of football fans today. There is way too much reliance on stats by too many fans.

Well said! Statwise, this is the most important. It goes for both sides of the ball. If you can't convert on offense, your defense will be on the field too long. If you can't get off the field on defense on 3rd downs then your offense can't get on the field in order to put points on the board as well as control the clock. I know it sounds so basic but in order to win football games, it's the most important stat IMO.:)

NEROtheZERO
10-02-2006, 03:16 PM
F the ratings....you guys are too wrapped up in stats. Football isn't like baseball where you can crunch numbers and tell who the best players are. Carr is playing better when he converts 3rd downs...doesn't kill drives taking goofy sacks....not putting the offense in 2nd and 16...stuff like that. Not because he completes 11 of 14 5 yard tosses. Stats are for baseball. Football is a sport you have to watch to figure out who is playing well. I think fantasy football is diseasing the minds of football fans today. There is way too much reliance on stats by too many fans.

While I agree that statistics are relied too heavily upon by many people I think they are appropriate for the people who use them right as a tool for analysis.

Carr is not the best QB in football, as his QB rating indicates. Not by a long shot. But he is viable and not merely a stat padder in trash time as some suggest. The reason I tout his quarter by quarter rating is because it shows that he is successful in other scenarios than ptrash time. I think the changes in ratings exemplify that as well. His stats came closer to earth in the first and went up in every other quarter. It shows that David is progressing and adjusting.

Vinny
10-02-2006, 03:20 PM
While I agree that statistics are relied too heavily upon by many people I think they are appropriate for the people who use them right as a tool for analysis.

Carr is not the best QB in football, as his QB rating indicates. Not by a long shot. But he is viable and not merely a stat padder in trash time as some suggest. The reason I tout his quarter by quarter rating is because it shows that he is successful in other scenarios than ptrash time. I think the changes in ratings exemplify that as well. His stats came closer to earth in the first and went up in every other quarter. It shows that David is progressing and adjusting.I don't agree....just look at Steve McNair and his pedestrian stat lines over and over though the years. What you don't see are his key 3rd down conversions and him making bad plays into good plays...you don't see his will to win in key drives giving his team a chance to win. His stats aren't much better than Kyle Boller but that team is a hell of a team with McNair...and an inconsistant team with Boller. Stats are for fantasy football and to back up arguments on message boards. Stats are the most overrated part of being a football fan.

run-david-run
10-02-2006, 03:27 PM
Obviously stats dont give you the whole picture, and right now they exagerate how much better Carr has gotten from last season. However, what I can tell you is that whenever he drops back and has time, I feel confident that the play is going to suceed. I can guarantee you I did not feel that last season.

Texans86
10-02-2006, 03:28 PM
Alright I've read multiple times people criticizing Carr's high completion percentage (73%) because he throws a lot of short passes that get completed. This is actually not as true as most think. He is currently averaging (through 4 weeks) 7.79 yards per attempt. For reference, last year's yards per attempt was between five and six, a very pitiful average that would support your short pass claim. However the biggest difference comes in yards per completion. That average comes to 10.679 yards. That is hardly a bunch of short passes; on the contrary, that is a first down every time someone catches the ball. I do not want to hear anyone else saying he is just completing a bunch of short passes that don't amount to anything. Thank you.

Vinny
10-02-2006, 03:33 PM
Alright I've read multiple times people criticizing Carr's high completion percentage (73%) because he throws a lot of short passes that get completed. He has thrown a lot of short passes...but you have to watch the game to know it. It's nothing to criticise him about if he is hitting the deep seam or making plays over the linebacker drops....he wasn't doing that much till lately. Now that he is finally hitting those passes everything opens up. It's not a mystery.

HOU-TEX
10-02-2006, 03:33 PM
Alright I've read multiple times people criticizing Carr's high completion percentage (73%) because he throws a lot of short passes that get completed. This is actually not as true as most think. He is currently averaging (through 4 weeks) 7.79 yards per attempt. For reference, last year's yards per attempt was between five and six, a very pitiful average that would support your short pass claim. However the biggest difference comes in yards per completion. That average comes to 10.679 yards. That is hardly a bunch of short passes; on the contrary, that is a first down every time someone catches the ball. I do not want to hear anyone else saying he is just completing a bunch of short passes that don't amount to anything. Thank you.

I agree with you but you also have to take in account of how much YAC has to do with that stat. That said, the O has shown bright spots here and there and I expect them to get better. We fix several holes on the D and O and we'll be cookin.:shades:

NEROtheZERO
10-02-2006, 03:36 PM
I don't agree....just look at Steve McNair and his pedestrian stat lines over and over though the years. What you don't see are his key 3rd down conversions and him making bad plays into good plays...you don't see his will to win in key drives giving his team a chance to win. His stats aren't much better than Kyle Boller but that team is a hell of a team with McNair...and an inconsistant team with Boller. Stats are for fantasy football and to back up arguments on message boards. Stats are the most overrated part of being a football fan.

I don't see what part of my post you disagree with seeing as how we both agree that stats are overused, but agree that they can be used in the right situation as a tool of analysis. You used 3rd down efficiency % and I used quarter by quarter QB rating to prove our respective points.

Intangibles are just as important in football as tangibles but that does not render statistics irrelevant, just overused.

srstex
10-02-2006, 03:36 PM
I love it, Carr bashers used stats all off-season to tear him down, now that he turned that around, ya'll want to say stats don't count. Get a life. Carr did exactly what this message board said he had to do, or he should be traded or let go ( that was said just two weeks ago ). FYI stats also get you into the Hall of Fame, ask Marino.


:homer:

Vinny
10-02-2006, 03:38 PM
I love it, Carr bashers used stats all off-season to tear him down, now that he turned that around, ya'll want to say stats don't count. Get a life. Carr did exactly what this message board said he had to do, or he should be traded or let go ( that was said just two weeks ago ). FYI stats also get you into the Hall of Fame, ask Marino.


:homer: Carr has always had a decent stat line. He's never thrown a ton of picks or had ultra low inc %'s. Most people were on him for bad play....a legit argument. If he plays well people like myself will state it...if he doesn't, well...I like credibility more than popularity so I'll state it instead of spin it. You wear that homer tag well.

TexansSeminole
10-02-2006, 03:40 PM
I agree that stats are highly overrated in football.

HOU-TEX
10-02-2006, 03:49 PM
I love it, Carr bashers used stats all off-season to tear him down, now that he turned that around, ya'll want to say stats don't count. Get a life. Carr did exactly what this message board said he had to do, or he should be traded or let go ( that was said just two weeks ago ). FYI stats also get you into the Hall of Fame, ask Marino.
:

The only stat that conserns me with this team over the past few years has been 3rd down conversions(among other things). It hasn't been good since the beginning, hence the losing seasons. I'm not a Carr basher or a Carr homer. I'm all for the "W's"! Marino can have his stats! Give me the Super Bowl baby.:redtowel: :redtowel:

Brandon420tx
10-02-2006, 04:10 PM
And to think my friends were laughing at me when I picked Carr in the 10th round of the FF draft. He's a solid 12-20 points per week.
I got him in the eighth!

infantrycak
10-02-2006, 04:10 PM
Intangibles are just as important in football as tangibles but that does not render statistics irrelevant, just overused.

Exactly except I would say misused instead of overused. They cannot be a substitution for watching the game but are not irrelevant at all for confirming or denying the impressions gained from watching.

jaayteetx
10-02-2006, 04:18 PM
I got him in the eighth!

I picked him up two weeks into the season!

The Pencil Neck
10-02-2006, 04:22 PM
I got him in the eighth!

He wasn't drafted in my league. I picked him up last week and started him this week. And won my game. YAY ME!!!

Brandon420tx
10-02-2006, 04:41 PM
He wasn't drafted in my league. I picked him up last week and started him this week. And won my game. YAY ME!!!

He won for me too. my WRs did horrible to mediocre pointwise (Anquan Boldin had 4 points! Reggie Wayne had 7!) and I had Chester Taylor only getting 3! Carr (17), Steven Jackson (20) and the Titans horrible offense (22)(Cowboys D picked up in FA hahaha) won the game for me. Owen Daniels didn't get any touches :confused: I wish I had known the TE gameplan going into the game, I would have kept Ben Watson in the starting lineup. Oh well, I still have Akers kicking tonight.... anyway back on topic.


GO TEXANS!!!:redtowel: :redtowel: :redtowel:

noxiousdog
10-02-2006, 04:52 PM
I don't agree....just look at Steve McNair and his pedestrian stat lines over and over though the years.

Since when is a 7.0 ypa and an 8:5 TD/int pedestrian?

While Boller's stats last year are comperable to McNair's stats this year (exception: boller throws a lot more picks than McNair), if they remain that way for 16 games, the Ravens are likely to miss the playoffs once again.

TexansLucky13
10-02-2006, 05:06 PM
Another Carr thread! :hides:

God forbid I open my mouth, for people will quickly try to slam the :homer: tag on me.

On second thought, I will. I have been supporting Carr for as long as he has been here. The anti-Carr crowd have never had a strong argument, as far as I am concerned. Agreed, he has not played anywhere close to what a starting QB should. But he has payed his due. He has played behind one of the worst O-lines in the history of this sport, yet he is still healthy and improving very much. He has always had what it took to be a starter and beyond. I am one of the proud and the few who supported him through his worst stretches. I will never understand how so many people were always so eager to blame him. Some people just never cease to amaze me, especially today.

If I am a :homer: for knowing that this kid was going to be a stud all along.... go ahead and label me as that.

blockhead83
10-02-2006, 08:17 PM
Just thought it was interesting that Sean Salisbury mentioned Carr this morning in reference to an example of a QB who started right away having success later in their career. He was addressing Vince Young's struggles and whether or not a QB should have a start early in their careers, and he basically said Carr looked rough at first but he's turned out well.

Don't get me wrong, Salisbury is a blow hard, but just thought it was interesting that Carr might become the latest poster boy for high status QB's who struggle early in their career. It's taken Carr a while to develop, and I'm of the opinion that alot of that can be tagged on the previous coaching and talent around him. The guy's always had the tools, he just needed the right help on and off the field.

Texas_Thrill
10-02-2006, 09:34 PM
no sarcasm in his voice?

no way there couldn't have been.

Vinny
10-02-2006, 11:43 PM
I don't agree....just look at Steve McNair and his pedestrian stat lines over and over though the years. What you don't see are his key 3rd down conversions and him making bad plays into good plays...you don't see his will to win in key drives giving his team a chance to win. His stats aren't much better than Kyle Boller but that team is a hell of a team with McNair...and an inconsistant team with Boller. Stats are for fantasy football and to back up arguments on message boards. Stats are the most overrated part of being a football fan.

Since when is a 7.0 ypa and an 8:5 TD/int pedestrian?

While Boller's stats last year are comperable to McNair's stats this year (exception: boller throws a lot more picks than McNair), if they remain that way for 16 games, the Ravens are likely to miss the playoffs once again. Mac9 has never produced huge stat lines that lead the league, but he does things like impose his will on teams in critical drives (go reload up the last drive of the Super Bowl drive vs the Rams as an example - if Dyson gets in that is the greatest SB drive ever - McNair did it all himself as his blocking broke down play after play).

The Ratbirds don't need huge numbers to win....they just need clutch play and good decision making when the game is on the line. McNair had a poor stat day Sunday and they won, but they won because he did it when they needed it done....a pile of stats won't win games...ask Jeff George. The Ratbirds won that game because McNair is a big time clutch player....not because he piles up huge stat lines.

noxiousdog
10-03-2006, 08:29 AM
That's all well and good, but using that and ignoring stats makes you play Kurt Warner years after his prime. You have to use both (in addition to a million other things).

Of course McNair has all the intangibles to go with all his tools. That's what helped the Titans such a good team for a long time, and his stats back that up. But when he lost Eddie George, both the Titans wins AND his stats reflected it.

real
10-03-2006, 10:10 AM
That's all well and good, but using that and ignoring stats makes you play Kurt Warner years after his prime. You have to use both (in addition to a million other things).


I don't get that...please explain...

thunderkyss
10-03-2006, 10:48 AM
That's all well and good, but using that and ignoring stats makes you play Kurt Warner years after his prime. You have to use both (in addition to a million other things).

Of course McNair has all the intangibles to go with all his tools. That's what helped the Titans such a good team for a long time, and his stats back that up. But when he lost Eddie George, both the Titans wins AND his stats reflected it.

Even Warners stats suggests you should sit him. His INTs & fumbles in recent years have made him a liability. You play him, because you hope he can turn it around, and reclaim his early success.

TK_Gamer
10-03-2006, 11:27 AM
He has thrown a lot of short passes...but you have to watch the game to know it. It's nothing to criticise him about if he is hitting the deep seam or making plays over the linebacker drops....he wasn't doing that much till lately. Now that he is finally hitting those passes everything opens up. It's not a mystery.

I get the feeling Carr has a limited faith or comfort level when he is pressured, maybe its from all those sacks over the years I dont know. but he seems to lean on the short screen to AJ when he has no immediate options. I dont think this is neccesarrily bad as he has improved his chemistry with AJ to the point it is at now. He trusts AJ, I think he trusts Daniels to a certain degree. I would love to see more corner routes and slants but I guess as long as he isnt taking a bad sack or throwing an int, I will give him the benefit of the doubt on the short screen or out to AJ. some of the responsibilty has to go to the playcalling, both before the snap and at the line. on 3rd and medium or long , you have to have routes that pick up the first down. maybe its AJ bailing him out, I dont know.

noxiousdog
10-03-2006, 12:34 PM
I don't get that...please explain...

Kurt Warner is a two time MVP. Kurt Warner won a Super Bowl and came within an Adam Venitieri kick of a second. He led the most prolific offense the NFL has ever seen.

The Giants have tried those 'intangibles', the Cardinals have tried those 'intagibles'. Both teams eventually learned what the stats should have been telling them. That hand injuries made Kurt Warner susceptible to interceptions and fumbles.

thunderkyss
10-03-2006, 01:01 PM
I get the feeling Carr has a limited faith or comfort level when he is pressured, maybe its from all those sacks over the years I dont know. but he seems to lean on the short screen to AJ when he has no immediate options. I dont think this is neccesarrily bad as he has improved his chemistry with AJ to the point it is at now. He trusts AJ, I think he trusts Daniels to a certain degree. I would love to see more corner routes and slants but I guess as long as he isnt taking a bad sack or throwing an int, I will give him the benefit of the doubt on the short screen or out to AJ. some of the responsibilty has to go to the playcalling, both before the snap and at the line. on 3rd and medium or long , you have to have routes that pick up the first down. maybe its AJ bailing him out, I dont know.

This year..... Last Sunday especially. David has faced as much pressure as he ever has, against some really good defenses. Taking those two hits & still getting the ball to AJ, and taking that other hit while still getting the ball out, are going to go much further protecting him than anything we've done in the past.

Why?? Because David is starting to scare some DCs...... sure, he's going to have to back it up, and do it again in BigD, and Jacksonville.... I predict we'll see alot less blitzes come November.

real
10-03-2006, 01:06 PM
Kurt Warner is a two time MVP. Kurt Warner won a Super Bowl and came within an Adam Venitieri kick of a second. He led the most prolific offense the NFL has ever seen.

The Giants have tried those 'intangibles', the Cardinals have tried those 'intagibles'. Both teams eventually learned what the stats should have been telling them. That hand injuries made Kurt Warner susceptible to interceptions and fumbles.

But you can't really say thats the norm.....Maybe as a fan you look at stats, but as a coach you need to evaluate the players performance....I highly doubt Arizona and NY picked up KW because of his stats...more along the lines of potential and hoping he could get back to his form...In fact I don't think his stats were even that good when Arizona picked him up....

thunderkyss
10-03-2006, 01:58 PM
];460374']Carr has mastered manipulating the space aroung AJ. Wish he could do that on least 3 WR.

He will so own.


Moulds has to be 100% open for Carr to pass it to him.

I don't know. That touchdown pass against Philly looked like a jump ball to me.

noxiousdog
10-03-2006, 02:15 PM
But you can't really say thats the norm.....Maybe as a fan you look at stats, but as a coach you need to evaluate the players performance....I highly doubt Arizona and NY picked up KW because of his stats...more along the lines of potential and hoping he could get back to his form...In fact I don't think his stats were even that good when Arizona picked him up....

Exactly.