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View Full Version : CBs and LB's only


YoungTexanFan
09-27-2006, 10:08 PM
We all know about Landry, Merriwether, Zibioski or w/e...but lets talk about yet another need. CB and LB's.

The only real CB I see is Antoine Carson from Arizona St.or somewhere like that. He is an athletic freak and is coming off an injury similar to Cromatire last year. Big, fast, physical. I haven't studied him enough to judge his hips or his natural reaction to the ball, but he is the top CB in the draft for now.

If you have any other CB's, tell us about them.

As far as LB's are concerned...Ryans is a great LB, but he is not big enough to handle the Mike spot. He is better off on the strongside at Sam. I know he played Will in college, but I think his instincts will lead better to Sam. I feel that a stud MLB like H. Blades or Polznuezy or my favorite Buster Davis, would really help our defense out the most. Greenwood is gone after this year I believe, Wong's contract is up I believe as well.

Post what you would like to see happen to these two positions through the draft only, no FA's available in this hypothetical situation. Only draft.

infantrycak
09-27-2006, 10:16 PM
Ryans is a great LB, but he is not big enough to handle the Mike spot.

Why, why, why do folks perpetuate this tripe? Please examine the list of pro-bowl middle linebackers for the last few years and defensive rookie of the year candidates and get back to us on how many are more than 5% heavier than him. This is silly. Jeremiah Trotter/Brian Urlacher are old school in the NFL at this point, not the norm.

YoungTexanFan
09-27-2006, 10:30 PM
Why, why, why do folks perpetuate this tripe? Please examine the list of pro-bowl middle linebackers for the last few years and defensive rookie of the year candidates and get back to us on how many are more than 5% heavier than him. This is silly. Jeremiah Trotter/Brian Urlacher are old school in the NFL at this point, not the norm.

I'm not concerned about his body weight, but more of how he plays within that weight. He is not shedding blockers properly right now and is getting caught up in the wash too frequently to be a MLB in the NFL. He is a stud, and certinally a DROY canidate, but I do not see him as a permanent MLB. Again, I am not saying that because of his size persay, but how he does/doesn't use his size to this advantage.

threetoedpete
09-27-2006, 10:36 PM
Because it's true old Hoss. Either we gotta get bigger/stronger at the DT spot, or they gotta move him. Rayns is getting stoned in the middle of our defense. I know you love the guy. But after three games it is more than clear. The guy is a tackling machine no doubt. But....he can not hold the pint of attack against NFL caliber gaurds and centers. And he never will. The sooner you lacth on to that fact, the happier all of us will be.

threetoedpete
09-27-2006, 10:41 PM
Because it's true old Hoss. Either we gotta get bigger/stronger at the DT spot, or they gotta move him. Rayns is getting stoned in the middle of our defense. I know you love the guy. But after three games it is more than clear. The guy is a tackling machine no doubt. But....he can not hold the point of attack against NFL caliber gaurds and centers. And he never will. The sooner you latch on to that fact, the happier all of us will be.

Well mods I got the spelling corrected.

threetoedpete
09-27-2006, 10:47 PM
I think it is more than kee jerk at this point that we have a major problem in the middle of our defense. TBS, I'm turly worried at this point of Dante playing out his contrack and moving on. I think the kid is a winner who is tired of losing. As much as I want aa o- lineman in the first, I could live with Dante insurance.

infantrycak
09-27-2006, 10:51 PM
Trotter and Urlacher--the biggest/best two MLB's around do not hold the point of attack directly against OG's and OC's. The DL occupies the OL or they slide off blocks or use quickness to make the play. This is silly--for reference see Vilma, Thurman, Tatupu. Ryans' size is fine. He has sporadic rookie mistakes but is doing an exceptional job in comparison to 8 of the other D players.

Our running D is poor because the OL's are encouraging the DE's to overrun to the outside and then doubling the DT's to create holes with OLmen releasing to make 2nd level blocks.

threetoedpete
09-27-2006, 11:05 PM
It's not "sporadic". It is catistrophic. He can not, will not, be a front line MLB in this league. Ronnie Brown , behind that dishuffled Miami o-line is going to bomb us sunday. You wanna blame Richard Smith go right ahead. I don't know and I ain't in the loop. All I got is what's on the tivo. And that says....he ain't no MLB. The eye in the sky don't lie. They May, draft bigger better guys infront of him to make it work. But it ain't going to work this year. You can spin it the way you want, but this d is fixing to catch the '81 Colts. And the main reason is because Ryans can not take on and get rid of blockers. They stone him.

infantrycak
09-27-2006, 11:17 PM
And the main reason is because Ryans can not take on and get rid of blockers. They stone him.

If you think that is in the top 9 reasons for this D sucking we will just have to disagree. There are 8 guys plus a scheme more responsible for what is happening but have at Ryans being 10 lbs under your ideal weight.

YoungTexanFan
09-27-2006, 11:29 PM
Trotter and Urlacher--the biggest/best two MLB's around do not hold the point of attack directly against OG's and OC's. The DL occupies the OL or they slide off blocks or use quickness to make the play. This is silly--for reference see Vilma, Thurman, Tatupu. Ryans' size is fine. He has sporadic rookie mistakes but is doing an exceptional job in comparison to 8 of the other D players.

Our running D is poor because the OL's are encouraging the DE's to overrun to the outside and then doubling the DT's to create holes with OLmen releasing to make 2nd level blocks.

Yes, I agree that our D-line isn't executing properly or at all, but Ryans is not getting off his blocker when the play does make it to the second level. I feel some of that is technique and can be solved with the implementing of a "rip" move or flowing to the ball a little faster, reading the OG's better. The LB's you mentioned do share the slightly undersized theme, but they all excell at moving around blocks to get to the ball before it is through the second level. I will allow that Ryans is a rookie and makes some mistakes, but this isn't a new theory on him. This has been his negative since his days of college. He is great at making the play when unblocked, but he is not moving off the block quickly enough and is showing no technique in trying to do so. Even a swim move would work to some extent. I switch between MLB and DE on passing downs, and at MLB, we are taught to avoid the blocker, run the alley, read the guards, and rip through the wash. This is just a technique issue I hope, but right now, it is an issue.

YoungTexanFan
09-27-2006, 11:35 PM
If you think that is in the top 9 reasons for this D sucking we will just have to disagree. There are 8 guys plus a scheme more responsible for what is happening but have at Ryans being 10 lbs under your ideal weight.

Cak, its not about weight for me. My favorite MLB's in college are undersized. Blades and Buster. Both are just better at not engaging in contact with the lead blocker and flowing to the ball instead. Look at it this way: they run a pitch to the 4 hole...DE's are allowed to over run it, LG pulls, washes out the OLB...OC downblocks to Ryans who hasn't run the alley yet and is caught in the wash unless the back makes a cutback. He simply needs to fly to the ball a little more aggressivly IMO. He has the mental ability and physical ability, he just needs to be more aggressive when making his reads.

infantrycak
09-27-2006, 11:39 PM
The only reason--and the only part I quoted--was about Ryans being big enough. Fine criticize his technique--he has things to work on like any rookie. IMO though the big enough comment is off base.

threetoedpete
09-27-2006, 11:51 PM
Well as you say we will have to agree to disagree. Took the Titans Bullock three seasons to get on line. I'm not ready to throw him out the window. And I stand to be corrected. But, your assurtion that he is a "lock" at MLB, is far from a dune deal, IMHO. Got twelve to go we'll see. But I have not been surprised by his preformance so far. It is what I expected. Just don't send us to the whipping post because we're seeing what we're seeing. That's all I'm tring to get across. You wanna blame it on the other guys, coaches, scheme fine by me. I like the guy, just don't like the guy at MLB. He better get it soon one of the 'ol gaurds are going to plant him like grannies winter collards.

infantrycak
09-28-2006, 12:02 AM
I like the guy, just don't like the guy at MLB. He better get it soon one of the 'ol gaurds are going to plant him like grannies winter collards.

Can you name 5 players who have performed better on D than him? Until that time we have bigger fish to fry without even talking about the scheme.

threetoedpete
09-28-2006, 12:22 AM
He cannot take on and shed blockers. The rest of it is all hog wash.

infantrycak
09-28-2006, 12:27 AM
He cannot take on and shed blockers. The rest of it is all hog wash.

I guess that is a no you can't name folks performing worse.

By the way--Ray Lewis complained about not getting good up front protection when it wasn't working for the Ravens.

beerlover
09-28-2006, 03:12 AM
Demeco is a workout warrior, look for him to add another 15-20 pounds before he finds his ideal weight & playing condition. He is also learning opposition schemes he has never seen before. It gonna help him alot when he gets a burner for a wingman (OLB) in general the Texans lack speed in the secondary, that needs to be addressed.

V Man
09-28-2006, 07:20 AM
I would love to see them get Patrick Willis from Mississippi to play Mike. It is not that I don't think Ryans is doing that bad at MLB, but I think he would even be better on the outside. So you could improve two positions with one pick.:twocents:

TexansCanes
09-28-2006, 05:00 PM
I would love to see them get Patrick Willis from Mississippi to play Mike. It is not that I don't think Ryans is doing that bad at MLB, but I think he would even be better on the outside. So you could improve two positions with one pick.:twocents:

I love pat willis and think him and demeco would be great together for years to come. if you want to talk about a tackling machine watch an ole miss game, pat is everywhere.

dat_boy_yec
09-28-2006, 05:02 PM
Rofus Alexander from OU is real good and should be around in the second. He looks to have good speed and tangibles and intangibles.

real
09-28-2006, 05:26 PM
What about...leon hall

CoastalTexan
09-28-2006, 07:12 PM
I've heard good things about Leon Hall.

AlbinoRat
09-28-2006, 07:42 PM
John Talley from Duke, Darrelle Revis from Pitt, David Overstreet from Missouri, Tarell Brown from Texas, Wesley Smith from Memphis, Bobby Blackshire from Tulsa, Kareem Brown from Buffalo, Eric Weddle from Utah, Sabby Piscitelli from Oregon State, Will Herring from Auburn, David Irons from Auburn, Tra Battle from Georgia, Brandon Siler (Linebacker: 6-2 235lbs.) from Florida, Tyrell Johnson from Arkansas State, Joe Garcia from Nevada, Dez Adams from LA Tech, Ambrose Wooden from Notre Dame.

Thats all I can think of, and not all of these guys are even worthy of being mentioned

dat_boy_yec
09-28-2006, 07:46 PM
Auburn and S. Carolina are playing right now on ESPN so we can watch the Iron brothers and I don't know who else, but it looks like a decent game. K. Irons is looking real good.

BuffSoldier
09-28-2006, 10:21 PM
I'm not concerned about his body weight, but more of how he plays within that weight. He is not shedding blockers properly right now and is getting caught up in the wash too frequently to be a MLB in the NFL. He is a stud, and certinally a DROY canidate, but I do not see him as a permanent MLB. Again, I am not saying that because of his size persay, but how he does/doesn't use his size to this advantage.


Demeco Ryans is second in the league in tackles

http://www.nfl.com/stats/leaders/NFL/TAC/2006/regular

painekiller
10-01-2006, 02:43 AM
I'm not concerned about his body weight, but more of how he plays within that weight. He is not shedding blockers properly right now and is getting caught up in the wash too frequently to be a MLB in the NFL. He is a stud, and certinally a DROY canidate, but I do not see him as a permanent MLB. Again, I am not saying that because of his size persay, but how he does/doesn't use his size to this advantage.


Then why do you want him at the Sam? I agree with your premise, if we can get another stud LB in the 2nd round get him. I don't care if its Buster Davis, or Rufus Alexander, or HB Blades (may have a weight problem). Just get the best LB you can. Then you can get the 3 best LBs on the field. I would love to find a 4.5 or faster LB in this draft.

I would love to get a Leon Hall or someone like him, a Rufus Alexander, and a Justin Warren. But we will get a safety on the first day, not 2 LBs. Could we get Warren in the fourth?

YoungTexanFan
10-01-2006, 06:35 AM
Then why do you want him at the Sam? I agree with your premise, if we can get another stud LB in the 2nd round get him. I don't care if its Buster Davis, or Rufus Alexander, or HB Blades (may have a weight problem). Just get the best LB you can. Then you can get the 3 best LBs on the field. I would love to find a 4.5 or faster LB in this draft.

I would love to get a Leon Hall or someone like him, a Rufus Alexander, and a Justin Warren. But we will get a safety on the first day, not 2 LBs. Could we get Warren in the fourth?

I do want him at Sam because he can flow to the ball a lot more at Sam and can use his speed off the edge. He can tackle, so that's not his problem.

It's to early to be predicting guys that aren't first round locks.

Ole Miss Texan
10-02-2006, 03:07 PM
I agree with a few of y'all about patrick willis out of ole miss. I go to school there right now. He played the entire last season with 3 or 4 injuries, including wearing a cast for most. The only reason we are "somewhat competitive" right now is because of P-Willie. I believe he was the #2 LB in SEC behind Demeco last year, he is ALWAYS around the ball. We would have an awesome young Lb core with him and demeco...

I'm thinking we may be picking 5-10 this year, is this resonable?

Go Mario! I love how excited he was and the team after his sack and Demeco and him shared that one.

TexansSeminole
10-02-2006, 03:41 PM
Demeco Ryans is second in the league in tackles

http://www.nfl.com/stats/leaders/NFL/TAC/2006/regular

I agree that this proves he can tackle...but not at any point do you want one of your players even close to leading the league in tackles....It just proves that we can't stop teams consistantly. Notice how all the bad teams have players up at the top leading tackles.

On the undersized base I think that Ryans can play any of the LB spots in the NFL well, but I think he needs to stick with one to be the players he can be. Depending on who we pick up in the draft, I would be willing to move him. If we got Buster I beleive Buster is a better MLB.

LORK 88
10-02-2006, 07:16 PM
Honestly, I want to see how Fagins does when he returns. If he does well, Id be more inclined to say RB, LB, or FS depending on whos there. If we just look pitiful, I wouldnt rule out a CB as those are our big 4 needs as of right now. As of right now, excluding the possibility of AD, LaRon Landry is the player I want the most. He 's always at least a step ahead of everyone else and is the best pure FS around.

AlbinoRat
10-05-2006, 02:31 PM
For those interested...You can watch Buster Davis play tonight on ESPN against NCST. For those of you who don't know much about him, you should watch, and hopefully he'll have a great game. He is number Seven by the way.

kastofsna
10-05-2006, 02:41 PM
buster davis is FUN to watch.

YoungTexanFan
10-05-2006, 06:51 PM
Buster Davis is a very instinctive, hard-hitting, SOB of a LB who flies to the ball and arrives with bad intentions.

AlbinoRat
10-05-2006, 07:07 PM
I would love to have Davis. I've wanted to get Florida State linebackers for a while...I wanted to sign Peter Boulware, draft his brother Michael, Michaels teammate Kendyll Pope, and last years best linebacker in my opinion, Ernie Sims. Davis will be another one I'll see slip by. I may cry a little, but its all for the best.

YoungTexanFan
10-05-2006, 07:08 PM
I would love to have Davis. I've wanted to get Florida State linebackers for a while...I wanted to sign Peter Boulware, draft his brother Michael, Michaels teammate Kendyll Pope, and last years best linebacker in my opinion, Ernie Sims. Davis will be another one I'll see slip by. I may cry a little, but its all for the best.

Ya, FSU has put out some of the best LB's in a while. They may be the new LB U.

kastofsna
10-06-2006, 08:18 AM
Ya, FSU has put out some of the best LB's in a while. They may be the new LB U.
miami.

real
10-06-2006, 08:39 AM
I agree that this proves he can tackle...but not at any point do you want one of your players even close to leading the league in tackles.....

Hasn't Ray Lewis led the leauge in tackles a couple of years ????

kastofsna
10-06-2006, 11:37 AM
Hasn't Ray Lewis led the leauge in tackles a couple of years ????
it's been between he and zach thomas for the lasat 6 or 7 years.

you don't want your CB's or S's to have a lot of tackles, but ILB's having a lot of tackles is pretty normal.

YoungTexanFan
10-06-2006, 05:26 PM
it's been between he and zach thomas for the lasat 6 or 7 years.

you don't want your CB's or S's to have a lot of tackles, but ILB's having a lot of tackles is pretty normal.

Sharper led the league a few years.

Smokedawg
10-06-2006, 05:39 PM
LSU CB Jonathon Zenon, but i think he is a sophmore.

kastofsna
10-06-2006, 06:58 PM
Sharper led the league a few years.
vilma, too.

TexansCanes
10-08-2006, 02:51 AM
LSU CB Jonathon Zenon, but i think he is a sophmore.

Zenon is a Junior so he will be back next year. I'm glad that he has had a good year and think thing we will be a big factor for the lsu secondary next year.,