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BattleRedToro
09-26-2006, 09:17 PM
I heard that we could have hired Jim Bates as a defensive Coordinator, but Mr. Bates demanded that he be able to hire his own defensive assistants. If this is true Kubiak should be ashamed of himself for letting his own ego get in the way of his success as a head coach. So what if Bates is allowed to hire his own guys. I don't understand why Kubiak couldn't have come to some sort of an agreement wherein he allowed Bates to hire them on the condition that if they weren't getting the job done Kubiak could fire those that weren't performing up to Kubiak's expectations and replace them with someone who would. As far as I know Jim Bates is still available.

cuppacoffee
09-26-2006, 09:33 PM
I heard that we could have hired Jim Bates as a defensive Coordinator, but Mr. Bates demanded that he be able to hire his own defensive assistants. If this is true Kubiak should be ashamed of himself for letting his own ego get in the way of his success as a head coach. So what if Bates is allowed to hire his own guys. I don't understand why Kubiak couldn't have come to some sort of an agreement wherein he allowed Bates to hire them on the condition that if they weren't getting the job done Kubiak could fire those that weren't performing up to Kubiak's expectations and replace them with someone who would. As far as I know Jim Bates is still available.

So many new head coaches this year with so many new DCs.

I wonder why Bates is still available?

edo783
09-26-2006, 09:53 PM
Bates came off as a controll freak head case in the interview from what I heard. Even worse than a bad defense would be desension and bad feelings on the coaching staff.

eriadoc
09-26-2006, 10:12 PM
As far as I know Jim Bates is still available.

So the Texans weren't the only team to pass him by?

wrestler4life
09-26-2006, 11:27 PM
We have already seen what can happen when a guy hires his friends.

painekiller
09-27-2006, 03:34 AM
Because McNair had already decided that Hoke was staying and that was that. Bates also was already being paid for the season, and working for the Texans could hurt his chances of getting a HC job more than not working for anyone. (Have you watch the team play the last 19 games, he might have known something we didn't).

This was about Bates choice not Kubiaks.

Heywood
09-27-2006, 04:19 AM
Bates came off as a controll freak head case in the interview from what I heard. Even worse than a bad defense would be desension and bad feelings on the coaching staff.


even worse is your refusal to mix in a spell check.

indeed, master bates :yikes: would have threatened kubiak's ego.

cuppacoffee
09-27-2006, 09:02 AM
even worse is your refusal to mix in a spell check.

indeed, master bates :yikes: would have threatened kubiak's ego.


I've seen a couple of other posts that mention Kubiaks' ego.

All head coaches of NFL teams are very well compensated. They are now at the top of their profession and I am sure egos' can be massaged because of this.

When has Kubiak demonstrated an inflated ego? I haven't noticed this.

Just asking.

:coffee:

Texans_Chick
09-27-2006, 09:32 AM
Here is Jim Bates' bio:

link (http://www.packers.com/team/coaches/bates_jim/)

He gets paid $900,000 by the Packers if he sits out this season.

Reports were that he wanted to be paid head coach money for being a DC, and also total control of his staff.

Given Kubiak and Sherman's relationship, I am guessing that if Sherman was high on Bates, Bates would have been hired. But that is a total guess.

BlueThunder
09-27-2006, 01:05 PM
Thats one of the DC's I suggested.I was also wanting to try to hook Wannstedt and Campo into the picture as all part of the new 43 staff.Any one of these coaches can do the job.The problem is we took a different route and have to live with that dicision.

Campo and Wannstedt have had head coaching experence but never succeeded because of lack of offense.I just thought with the chances they blew as head coaches that they could take a back seat and have good input for a new young coach without have different ambitions of taking the head job..There not old and I just thought with there easy coaching methods would jell with Kubs and be an asset more then a distraction for the young head coach..

Texans_Chick
09-27-2006, 01:33 PM
Thats one of the DC's I suggested.I was also wanting to try to hook Wannstedt and Campo into the picture as all part of the new 43 staff.Any one of these coaches can do the job.The problem is we took a different route and have to live with that dicision.

Bates I say meh to.

By the time we were looking, there weren't too many options. Bygones.

During week 10ish or so, start compiling a list of great DCs who might actually be interested in this job if we piled up a ton of money and made them assistant head coach, defense.

BlueThunder
09-27-2006, 02:09 PM
Did you try Dave Campo?He has never been a greedy coach and may be the best out there.The guy has done nothing but field top ten units.He's sitting over in Jacksonville coaching the secondary and there he goes again.If you haven't noticed the Jags have had one of the best secondarys since he's been there.He's getting the personal and talent now and there only going to get better..From Head coach to secondary coach and he's just happy to have a little part.Campo don't like moving his family and thats one thing that makes him a resonable coach to contract.I'm sure the Texans could premote him from DBs coach:spy:

Texans_Chick
09-27-2006, 03:14 PM
Did you try Dave Campo?He has never been a greedy coach and may be the best out there.The guy has done nothing but field top ten units.He's sitting over in Jacksonville coaching the secondary and there he goes again.If you haven't noticed the Jags have had one of the best secondarys since he's been there.He's getting the personal and talent now and there only going to get better..From Head coach to secondary coach and he's just happy to have a little part.Campo don't like moving his family and thats one thing that makes him a resonable coach to contract.I'm sure the Texans could premote him from DBs coach:spy:

I am sure at the end of the year there will be a list of any number of guys we should target. Given our circumstances right now, we are stuck.

The best guy would be someone that you could just hand the defense to, and assume things would be done right.

Every moment that Kubiak has to babysit the defense means he can't help the offense (and it is hard to say how out of his element he is). An offensive minded coach NEEDS a stud defensive coordinator, and didn't get one. McNair will pay for someone, but that someone has to be attracted to fixing this team--right now, the franchise is a career killer with the benefit of no state income tax.

painekiller
09-27-2006, 07:30 PM
but that someone has to be attracted to fixing this team--right now, the franchise is a career killer with the benefit of no state income tax.

Very well said. I think most on this board have lost sight of this. But coaches have not.

TexanSam
09-27-2006, 08:15 PM
I heard that we could have hired Jim Bates as a defensive Coordinator, but Mr. Bates demanded that he be able to hire his own defensive assistants. If this is true Kubiak should be ashamed of himself for letting his own ego get in the way of his success as a head coach. So what if Bates is allowed to hire his own guys. I don't understand why Kubiak couldn't have come to some sort of an agreement wherein he allowed Bates to hire them on the condition that if they weren't getting the job done Kubiak could fire those that weren't performing up to Kubiak's expectations and replace them with someone who would. As far as I know Jim Bates is still available.

A head coach should be allowed to choose all the assistant coaches he wants too. That's part of a head coaches job. If Kubiak hired Bates and he let Bates bring in his own coaches Kubiak really isn't the head coach. He's letting Bates have total control of the defense. I think Bates probably has a bigger ego than Kubiak in this case. It's easy to say Kubiak could have hired this guy and allowed him to bring in the coaches with some sort of condition, but we don't know how the interview went or what kind of guy Jim Bates is. And like others said, many other teams passed on Bates as well. So it's not as if the Texans are all alone on this one.

threetoedpete
09-28-2006, 12:24 AM
Bates came off as a controll freak head case in the interview from what I heard. Even worse than a bad defense would be desension and bad feelings on the coaching staff.

Well he's still working on the Mario hand thingy. He gets that fixed, I'm on board. Smith is not the problem though. Makes you fell better fine by me. What's the old saying about chicken salad and chicken poop ?

threetoedpete
09-28-2006, 12:28 AM
Well he's still working on the Mario hand thingy. He gets that fixed, I'm on board. Smith is not the problem though. Makes you feel better fine by me. What's the old saying about chicken salad and chicken poop ?

got the spelling corrected mods

ojthecat
09-28-2006, 08:49 AM
Every moment that Kubiak has to babysit the defense means he can't help the offense (and it is hard to say how out of his element he is). An offensive minded coach NEEDS a stud defensive coordinator, and didn't get one.

TC, While I agree with what you are saying sometimes the problem is that an offensive minded coach is afraid to let the defense attack. Because they see the world through the eyes of a QB and an attacking defense has "holes".

I would lay more of the blame of the defense on Kubiak instead of Smith. I believe that Smith had more control over the gameplan in the preseason and that is why we were attacking more. I think that once Kubiak allows Smith a little more freedom to do his job we will be much better off.

Second Honeymoon
09-28-2006, 12:41 PM
Because McNair had already decided that Hoke was staying and that was that. Bates also was already being paid for the season, and working for the Texans could hurt his chances of getting a HC job more than not working for anyone. (Have you watch the team play the last 19 games, he might have known something we didn't).

This was about Bates choice not Kubiaks.

McNair is a moron. He needs to stay out of these decisions or the trend of brain dead decisions will continue. Personally, I think McNair is just another dumb rich guy whose ego needed a boost so he bought a football team. Every decision McNair has made has been wrong, except maybe hiring Kubiak because the jury is still out on that. He needs to sign the checks and go play golf and stay the hell out of the football operations. He is no better than Bud was, and that is the honest truth. At least Bud provided us a quality product 9 times out of 10.....

doug ftw

ojthecat
09-28-2006, 01:05 PM
He is no better than Bud was, and that is the honest truth. At least Bud provided us a quality product 9 times out of 10.....

doug ftw


The fact is the Oilers were in Houston for 36 years and made the playoffs 14 times. There best record was 12-4 and there worst was 0-8-1. Yes there were some good years but 22 of the 36 years there were no playoffs. Hardly 9 out of 10. I am glad to have Bob over Bud.

painekiller
09-28-2006, 04:08 PM
The fact is the Oilers were in Houston for 36 years and made the playoffs 14 times. There best record was 12-4 and there worst was 0-8-1. Yes there were some good years but 22 of the 36 years there were no playoffs. Hardly 9 out of 10. I am glad to have Bob over Bud.

Thank you for doing the research. The Oilers were beyond bad far more then they were good. They had a string during the Moon years when they were good, before that they had 3 years of glory with Earl, and before that 2 years of glory with Cannon and Blanda. That is far from 9 out of 10.

Texans_Chick
09-28-2006, 04:35 PM
TC, While I agree with what you are saying sometimes the problem is that an offensive minded coach is afraid to let the defense attack. Because they see the world through the eyes of a QB and an attacking defense has "holes".

I would lay more of the blame of the defense on Kubiak instead of Smith. I believe that Smith had more control over the gameplan in the preseason and that is why we were attacking more. I think that once Kubiak allows Smith a little more freedom to do his job we will be much better off.

Do you have a Link for that?

I was under the impression that Kubiak was letting Smith run his own ship.

real
09-28-2006, 04:51 PM
Do you have a Link for that?

I was under the impression that Kubiak was letting Smith run his own ship.

That's what I thought too...I think O.J the Cat is just speculating...

I heard Kubes on the radio the other day and he doesn't even practice with the defense much...He said that after the Washington loss he was down at the defensive side asking how he could help and trying to get those guys on track...

R.Smith is the man in charge when it comes to the defense...

texan_fan_in_tampa_bay
09-28-2006, 05:04 PM
Tony Dungy will be a great candidate once he's fired by the Colts.

hollywood_texan
09-28-2006, 05:28 PM
Thank you for doing the research. The Oilers were beyond bad far more then they were good. They had a string during the Moon years when they were good, before that they had 3 years of glory with Earl, and before that 2 years of glory with Cannon and Blanda. That is far from 9 out of 10.

The comparison of the Texans against the Oilers just doesn't make sense right now. Yes, the Oilers had some really bad years (actually, just aweful) and some really good years. Probably those two years with Campbell when they lost to Pittsburgh in the AFC championship game, especially the second year, they could have went to the Super Bowl if they were in a different divsion or in the NFC. Unfortunately, in those two seasons, they had to play the 70's Pittsburgh dynasty. In a lot of other years, those teams could of easily went to the Super Bowl. It all depends on the competition. Unfortunately, the Oilers peaked the same time the Steelers did and the Oilers just didn't have enough players. Not to metion the Oilers played a Wild Card game to those seasons, they had an extra game to play.

As for the Texans, they haven't even put together a winning season...

Second Honeymoon
09-29-2006, 12:51 PM
The fact is the Oilers were in Houston for 36 years and made the playoffs 14 times. There best record was 12-4 and there worst was 0-8-1. Yes there were some good years but 22 of the 36 years there were no playoffs. Hardly 9 out of 10. I am glad to have Bob over Bud.

Bob is just as bumbling as Bud and to be honest, I think Bob is more greedy in regards to the team. What's up with him cutting all our veterans on defense for the past 3 years? Do you realize we are UNDER the cap and have been since we were 7-9? That is unacceptable for a 2-14 season, but whatever, give me all the negative rep you want. Bud was hosed by the City Of Houston and we had to pay twice the amount of money to get a new team......so McNair cost us twice as much as keeping Bud happy and let's just say the early returns are embarassing in regards to McNair's acumen and wisdom as an owner...especially in comparison to Bud's track record. At least the Oiler's competed and didn't get blown out in the first half of every game.

I am just calling a spade a spade and its my opinion..so *sticks out tongue*

Doug FTW

Vinny
09-29-2006, 01:15 PM
I was under the impression that Kubiak was letting Smith run his own ship.From what I understand he is.....well, except for cramming a few holdover assistants down his throat from the last regime.

El Tejano
09-29-2006, 01:36 PM
Bob is just as bumbling as Bud and to be honest, I think Bob is more greedy in regards to the team. What's up with him cutting all our veterans on defense for the past 3 years? Do you realize we are UNDER the cap and have been since we were 7-9? That is unacceptable for a 2-14 season, but whatever, give me all the negative rep you want. Bud was hosed by the City Of Houston and we had to pay twice the amount of money to get a new team......so McNair cost us twice as much as keeping Bud happy and let's just say the early returns are embarassing in regards to McNair's acumen and wisdom as an owner...especially in comparison to Bud's track record. At least the Oiler's competed and didn't get blown out in the first half of every game.

I am just calling a spade a spade and its my opinion..so *sticks out tongue*

Doug FTW

Yeah The Oilers competed. And then they kicked you in the ding ding by losing the game after being up by 32 points. Talk about embarassing.

Mcnair never cut those players. He has always let his football people handle the football stuff. Capers and Casserly cut those players and that in turn screwed up the team and Mcnair didn't like that so he got rid of the coaches. Thank God he took over something or we would still have Stupid is and Stupid Does (Cass and Dom) as our coach and GM.

Doug
09-29-2006, 01:36 PM
McNair is a moron. He needs to stay out of these decisions or the trend of brain dead decisions will continue. Personally, I think McNair is just another dumb rich guy whose ego needed a boost so he bought a football team. Every decision McNair has made has been wrong, except maybe hiring Kubiak because the jury is still out on that. He needs to sign the checks and go play golf and stay the hell out of the football operations. He is no better than Bud was, and that is the honest truth. At least Bud provided us a quality product 9 times out of 10.....

doug ftw

I'm under the impression that this is partly why we're in the situation we are now, because McNair let Capers, Casserly do whatever they wanted instead of being involved with what was going on.

Vinny
09-29-2006, 01:38 PM
I'm under the impression that this is why we are in the predicament we're in now, because McNair let Capers, Casserly do whatever they wanted instead of being involved with what was going on.Not me. McNair didn't know the first thing about putting together a NFL team and he should have let his football people make football decisions....I can't see fault in this.

Runner
09-29-2006, 01:40 PM
I was under the impression that Kubiak was letting Smith run his own ship.

From what I understand he is.....well, except for cramming a few holdover assistants down his throat from the last regime.


My understanding is that this is correct. He lets the defensive coordinator have free rein while maintaining tight control of the offense.

tsip
09-29-2006, 02:04 PM
That's what I thought too...I think O.J the Cat is just speculating...

I heard Kubes on the radio the other day and he doesn't even practice with the defense much...He said that after the Washington loss he was down at the defensive side asking how he could help and trying to get those guys on track...

R.Smith is the man in charge when it comes to the defense...

However, Kubiak is the one who said that he does not want to blitz-wants to get a pass rush from just the frt four.

As other posters have noted, we played a 'virtually' different defense in pre-season with much better results that was attacking/aggressive--what happened to it?

infantrycak
09-29-2006, 02:15 PM
Do you realize we are UNDER the cap and have been since we were 7-9?

Well this is off base. Every team is under the cap--they have to be. In any event, if you want to look at McNair's spending the payroll has greatly exceeded the cap each year and been toward the top of the league except for folks like Snyder. It also doesn't do any good to just look at cap space and say it should have been spent on other players without specifically naming a player who was available, willing to play for the Texans and would have fit the system. When you can come up with a single example of McNair denying the coaching staff and Casserly someone they wanted maybe you could start building a case.

Doug
09-29-2006, 02:16 PM
Not me. McNair didn't know the first thing about putting together a NFL team and he should have let his football people make football decisions....I can't see fault in this.

In all seriousness...What role did McNair play when everything was taking place with the first regime? For some reason throughout this discussion the whole Phillip Buchanon situation keeps popping in my head. If I recall Casserly had watched like one video on him before making the deal to bring him to Houston.

Vinny
09-29-2006, 02:16 PM
However, Kubiak is the one who said that he does not want to blitz-wants to get a pass rush from just the frt four.Everyone wants to get their pass rush from the front 4. He's just talking about the ideal.

Texans_Chick
09-29-2006, 02:20 PM
From what I understand he is.....well, except for cramming a few holdover assistants down his throat from the last regime.

I do not know this but I am guessing that Richard Smith did not have his entourage of assistants that he wanted to bring from his previous employ. It is not like he has been a long time defensive coach and brought his minions with him from place to place, like some coordinators do.

Holland is his guy (worked with him before and Holland is from this part of the world), Hoke is a holdover, and Karmelowicz was an add on after Edwards was cleaning house.

It would be bad if Hoke was the person that prevented us from getting The Stud Defensive Coach we could have gotten, but I don't think that is the case. (Cuz Hoke isn't worth that). From what I've read, Bates wanted his own staff (something I understand), and wanted to be paid like a head coach (because he could paid big coin by GB just to take vacation this year). Bates isn't worth head coaching pay and that is why he isn't coaching now.

Texans_Chick
09-29-2006, 02:33 PM
In all seriousness...What role did McNair play when everything was taking place with the first regime? For some reason throughout this discussion the whole Phillip Buchanon situation keeps popping in my head. If I recall Casserly had watched like one video on him before making the deal to bring him to Houston.

There is some dispute on this point.

McNair said that the Texans only watched 4 Buchanon tapes in 2004. Here is the infamous McNair wanting to be more hands on article (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/justice/texans/3515657.html) which is the only time he has ever blown up the team or a player in the newspaper.

For instance, McNair wasn't told Buchanon didn't like tackling people. Because his football staff apparently didn't know or didn't think it was worth mentioning.

At least that's what McNair was told. Had Casserly and his people taken the time to read Bay Area newspapers, they would have known Buchanon didn't care for contact. It was no secret in Oakland.

Nor was it mentioned to McNair that Buchanon had problems covering wide receivers, which can lead to real problems for a cornerback.

He was beaten so often by Brett Favre in one prime-time 2003 contest that he was removed from the lineup during the game. McNair said he learned of this problem only after he began asking tough questions.

Turns out, the Texans watched only four of Buchanon's 2004 games. McNair was flabbergasted.

How could such an important decision be based on so little information? Because the Texans were in a hurry. Because Al Davis hurried them to the church.

With the Redskins rumored to be in the hunt for Buchanon, the Texans acted too quickly. They traded for a player who wasn't what he thought he was.

"I think everyone blew it," McNair said. "If you're going to give up high draft choices for a player, you'd better be thorough. If you don't have enough time, you say, 'Sorry, we're not done with our due diligence.' That's what happens when you're too eager. We had a need, and we were too eager to fill it."

Charlie Casserly on the radio afterwards said that this was not true. The Texans did watch a lot of tape on Buchanon and knew what they were getting.

He said that they believed they were getting a light-hitting, speedy cover corner. They believed that they could coach him up through his deficiencies.

I do not know for a fact that this is the case, but I believe it is likely that Hoke had a lot to do with Buchanon being picked. That the Texans had a need, and Hoke believed he could coach him up. Typically, a lot of the personnel choices of the Texans in the past were picks begged by the assistant coaches. It is possible, however, that CC just wanted to screw the Redskins out of the trade, and pulled the trigger too soon, but I think my first blather on this fits the MO of last year's Texans more: the assistants acted as advocates to get certain players, and CC deferred a lot to coaching requests.

That Chronic article is probably one of the few in depth looks at what sort of owner McNair aspires to be. Obviously, he let his football people make the decision on the first pick.

Runner
09-29-2006, 03:15 PM
I believe it worked like this during the past regime. In some cases a need was identified and Casserly had a lot of influence/final say on who the player was that they acquired to fill that role.

In other cases the coaches were adamant they wanted a specific player and Casserly got that player for them. Sometimes this was expensive.

I think Buchannon was one of the few people that both Casserly and the coaches were intent on getting.

Doug
09-29-2006, 07:55 PM
Thanks for the info and input TC and Runner.

BattleRedToro
01-12-2007, 12:33 AM
Bates I say meh to.

By the time we were looking, there weren't too many options. Bygones.

During week 10ish or so, start compiling a list of great DCs who might actually be interested in this job if we piled up a ton of money and made them assistant head coach, defense.

Well it looks like Denver did exactly that by making Jim Bates their new Assistant Head Coach/Defense.

Broncos hire Bates as assistant head coach (http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/DEN/9923697)