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View Full Version : If Capers was gone with 2-14 does Kubiak go with 1-15?


Rightnow
09-25-2006, 04:59 PM
I’m not calling for Kubiak’s head, but there is a possibility the only team we will beat is the Raiders. It isn’t out of the question that the Titans could beat us twice. We just gave up 495 yards against the Redskins and have progressively gotten worse every week.

Nearly everyone thought that we were getting better year-by-year when we went 7-9, but demanded (including myself) Capers to be let go after a terrible season. Last year’s losses were much closer too. There is no way around it; we are a terrible football team who is worse than last year’s team.

What does this mean if we are 1-15? Does Kubiak keep his job? Are most of the assistant coaches fired? I wonder…

Hookem Horns
09-25-2006, 05:03 PM
Nice to finally see some optimism on this board. Hopefully we will get that win this season.

powerfuldragon
09-25-2006, 05:04 PM
Dumb thread.

Tulip
09-25-2006, 05:04 PM
No.

There's a huge difference between 2-14 in a coach's 4th season and 1-15 in a coach's 1st season.

Some records for 1st year head coaches:

Bill Walsh, 2-14 (followed by 6-10).

Jimmy Johnson, 1-15.

Bill Parcells, 3-12-1.

Tom Landry was 18-46 in his first five seasons at Dallas.

Chuck Noll, 1-13.

Bill Belichick, 6-10.

Joe Gibbs, 8-8.

Bud Grant, 3-8-3.

Marv Levy, 4-12.

Dick Vermeil, 4-10.

Don Coryell, 4-9-1.

Mike Ditka, 3-6.

Weeb Ewbank, 3-9.

Tony Dungy, 6-10.

Andy Reid, 5-11

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/columnists.nsf/berniemiklasz/story/3EB13E82E84981EC862571D60083824B?OpenDocument

sleepwalker
09-25-2006, 05:05 PM
No, absolutely not.

Hervoyel
09-25-2006, 05:08 PM
I think it depends on how that 1-15 looks. I think that firing a first year coach is always a strange thing to do.

You have essentially given the man one year to fix a 2-14 team so obviously you are asking something of him that's nearly impossible.

Having said that I think it's entirely possible that the Texans offense could start clicking and we could still end up losing games because the defense couldn't stop anyone. I'll even assert that the defense could get it together and start stopping people but we keep losing because the offense never gets on track.

If I saw one side of the ball start playing like they should be then I'd have to say we give him another year. If I saw both sides get somewhat better but it didn't translate to the win column then I'd again give him another year.

If we're giving up 500 yards a game and 30 points while our offense keeps up this 10-14 points a week with a vanishing act in the 2nd and 3rd quarters I think that he could be a candidate for the door.

That could just be leftover from my Oiler days (Bud would fire you because he didn't like the look on your face that morning) but I think if this team craters and Gary Kubiak has clearly lost them by the end of the year (which would mean he never really "had" them) then I could see it happening.

Edit
-------------------

I'd like to add that I think this very unlikely and I sure don't want to see it happen. I just think it's possible in a "worst case scenario"

Blake
09-25-2006, 05:09 PM
Dont forget John Fox in Carolina. If im not mistaken, he went 1-15, then playoffs his second year. Just an FYI

RTP2110
09-25-2006, 05:12 PM
Absolutely NO chance Kubiak will be fired after this season.

Double Barrel
09-25-2006, 05:13 PM
What if we go 0-16 and Jeff Fisher is available in the off-season? :stirpot:

AustinJB
09-25-2006, 05:14 PM
Give me a break...Kubiak is in his 1st yr and has the HUGE task ahead of him to rebuild the Texans.

The only coach to get fired if we go 1-15 will be Def. Coordinator Richard Smith. It will be his head that rolls....long before Kubiak would ever be fired.

Hervoyel
09-25-2006, 05:16 PM
What if we go 0-16 and Jeff Fisher is available in the off-season? :stirpot:

Now that's just wrong man. :francis:

IF that happens this is going to be an ugly place to try and talk football so I don't want to start borrowing trouble before it gets here.

Double Barrel stop agitating the dots!

profan
09-25-2006, 05:18 PM
no, we keep kubes, because i see think you will see the offense getting better. Probably will have to fire the DC as words cannot describe how bad they are playing.

Double Barrel
09-25-2006, 05:27 PM
Now that's just wrong man. :francis:

IF that happens this is going to be an ugly place to try and talk football so I don't want to start borrowing trouble before it gets here.

Double Barrel stop agitating the dots!

heh-heh-heh :heh:

For the record, I like Kubiak and think we should give him as long as we gave Dom to make something happen.

rmartin65
09-25-2006, 05:29 PM
I think the D coordinator could go. Not Kubiak.

hollywood_texan
09-25-2006, 05:33 PM
If we're giving up 500 yards a game and 30 points while our offense keeps up this 10-14 points a week with a vanishing act in the 2nd and 3rd quarters I think that he could be a candidate for the door.



Agreed, I think it could be an issue if this team continues to play this way week in and week out. Kubiak is going to have a problem if doesn't show improvement.

No reasonable people were asking for a winning season, and reasonbale expectations were 4 games as victories.

But, getting worse from last year's squad just seems to be unacceptable. How do you extend Carr's contract with the reason to make a Super Bowl championship team and your team has gets worse?

Bottom line, as bad as the team was last year, it shouldn't be that hard to expect from the new coaching staff to show improvement from the previous year. If they can't, I don't know how they will build a championship team, which was the point of David Carr's exentension and hiring Gary Kubiak.

mexican_texan
09-25-2006, 05:33 PM
Last time I say this: we are rebuilding, as in, we're setting ourselves up for the future. Tell me, what do the coaches in Tulip's list have in common? They went on runs, they weren't a one-and-done team, they were built for continuing success. It may be hard to go through tough times, just remember the season Dallas had before their dynasty started.

mexican_texan
09-25-2006, 05:35 PM
heh-heh-heh :heh:

For the record, I like Kubiak and think we should give him as long as we gave Dom to make something happen.
Therein lies the question: does Kubiak get the same length leash Capers had? Capers took over an expansion team, but Kubiak has had more success and is installing a complicated system.

Hervoyel
09-25-2006, 05:43 PM
Therein lies the question: does Kubiak get the same length leash Capers had? Capers took over an expansion team, but Kubiak has had more success and is installing a complicated system.


I don't think he does but I'm not saying that I think that's a good thing. I'm saying that I think he gets a little shorter leash because he's not starting from the ground up in Bob McNair's eyes and because if he tacks 3 years of failure on to Dom's 4 years of failure it will mean that the teams owner is sitting on a 7 year old franchise that's sucked from day one.

I believe that Bob McNair is a patient man but I think losing for 7 years and from day one is going to be a tough thing to get past. I think if Kubiak performs as badly as any of us can imagine he probably gets two years and is fired in or after the third.

mexican_texan
09-25-2006, 05:43 PM
Another thing they have in common is they all started as head coaches before the advent of the salary cap and the proliferation of free agency.
...as well as the time before the extensive scouting. Teams aren't built through FA, they're built through the draft.

hollywood_texan
09-25-2006, 05:45 PM
Last time I say this: we are rebuilding, as in, we're setting ourselves up for the future. Tell me, what do the coaches in Tulip's list have in common? They went on runs, they weren't a one-and-done team, they were built for continuing success. It may be hard to go through tough times, just remember the season Dallas had before their dynasty started.


Nothing was ever built when it comes the Texans!

This team has no base and Kubiak can't even field a team more competitive than last year's squad so far this season.

I'm sorry, I don't think getting worse in the situation is a good sign. Generally, I think a 1st year coach should be given a chance even if things get worse. But not in the situation because of how bad the team was last year, particularly because Kubiak's background and that he is supposed to an offensive mastermind and David Carr is supposed to be Super Bowl caliber QB to build a team around. At least that is what remember McNair saying to me as a season ticket holder.

mexican_texan
09-25-2006, 05:51 PM
And if I have to spell it out for you that means you have to improve quicker as well.
Don't the Colts, Eagles, and Patriots have to deal with the cap? They've had nice runs in recent times, they've been Super Bowl contenders for years.

mexican_texan
09-25-2006, 05:55 PM
Nothing was ever built when it comes the Texans!

This team has no base and Kubiak can't even field a team more competitive than last year's squad so far this season.

I'm sorry, I don't think getting worse in the situation is a good sign. Generally, I think a 1st year coach should be given a chance even if things get worse. But not in the situation because of how bad the team was last year, particularly because Kubiak's background and that he is supposed to an offensive mastermind and David Carr is supposed to be Super Bowl caliber QB to build a team around. At least that is what remember McNair saying to me as a season ticket holder.
We're talking about a human being here, no one can turn our bunch of rejects into Pro Bowlers. Sorry to say it, but we have a lack of talent on this team. We're rebuilding(or building if you prefer that) and as fans, we should support the team and be patient. If you don't think Kubiak has made this team better, we have four guys(Carr, Daniels, Johnson, Moulds) who are all legit FF players, which compares to AJ and DD last year.

mexican_texan
09-25-2006, 05:59 PM
The Patriots are sliding and are going to have to reload entirely because of FA and the cap. You just proved my point for me.

As for the Colts, they lost the Edge and had to draft Addai why? FA and the cap again. It won't be long before they lose other important players as well for the same reasons.

And the Eagles are some of the best at managing the cap but the clock is ticking so to speak on their closing window of opportunity as well. They are just ahead of the other 2 as far as having more opportunity
I made no point for you, the Patriots had three rings in four years. The Colts lost their Edge, but they still have plenty of talent to make up for his loss.

Texas_Thrill
09-25-2006, 06:01 PM
well this has to be some kind of record for discussiing a return of the PINK SOAP boys.

hollywood_texan
09-25-2006, 06:02 PM
We're talking about a human being here, no one can turn our bunch of rejects into Pro Bowlers. Sorry to say it, but we have a lack of talent on this team. We're rebuilding(or building if you prefer that) and as fans, we should support the team and be patient. If you don't think Kubiak has made this team better, we have four guys(Carr, Daniels, Johnson, Moulds) who are all legit FF players, which compares to AJ and DD last year.

I really don't know what to say.

The only way I can understand that Kubiak fields the 2006 squad worse than Capers 2005 squad, is the Casserly so screwed up the personnel that things would have to get worse before they got better.

Okay, I can probably buy that. If I was McNair, I would have sure wanted my head coach to inform me of that before the beginning of the season instead of being in some delusion.

Mr. White
09-25-2006, 06:02 PM
well this has to be some kind of record for discussiing a return of the PINK SOAP boys.

I've been predicting a "Fire Kubiak" thread since week 1. We get closer every week.

hollywood_texan
09-25-2006, 06:04 PM
The Patriots are sliding and are going to have to reload entirely because of FA and the cap. You just proved my point for me.

As for the Colts, they lost the Edge and had to draft Addai why? FA and the cap again. It won't be long before they lose other important players as well for the same reasons.

And the Eagles are some of the best at managing the cap but the clock is ticking so to speak on their closing window of opportunity as well. They are just ahead of the other 2 as far as having more opportunity

Actually, the Patriots are trying to keep the team strong with the draft and picking up under peformers with free agency.

We'll see if that works. It didn't seem to work last night.

mexican_texan
09-25-2006, 06:06 PM
Kubiak is an offensive head coach and has definitely improved our offense. It's the defense that's bringing down our team.

kingh99
09-25-2006, 06:06 PM
No.

There's a huge difference between 2-14 in a coach's 4th season and 1-15 in a coach's 1st season.

Some records for 1st year head coaches:

Good post Tulip. I was thinking back when the Rooney's were looking for their next coach. It was between Bill Cower and Kevin Gilbride. The rest is history. The one about Jimmy Johnson is instructive. He was a heck of a talent accumulator and did the Hershel Walker steal trade. Let's hope we have that kind of horse trader here.

kingh99
09-25-2006, 06:09 PM
Kubiak is an offensive head coach and has definitely improved our offense. It's the defense that's bringing down our team.

That's a little misleading. The 3rd down efficiency of the Texans is bad. I have watched all the games. That is the down they put the heat on David or stunt him into thinking blitz and then drop back in two deep and bat down balls. Obviously David's history with innovating/play making under pressure is not that good. He'll keep getting hammered with pressure until he beats it consistently.

The defense feeds off the offense and vice versa.

mexican_texan
09-25-2006, 06:13 PM
That's a little misleading. The 3rd down efficiency of the Texans is bad. I have watched all the games. That is the down they put the heat on David or stunt him into thinking blitz and then drop back in two deep and bat down balls. Obviously David's history with innovating/play making under pressure is not that good. He'll keep getting hammered with pressure until he beats it consistently.

The defense feeds off the offense and vice versa.
It's hard to focus on getting a first when you're more worried about scoring 48 points to catch up to the other offense.

hollywood_texan
09-25-2006, 06:17 PM
Kubiak is an offensive head coach and has definitely improved our offense. It's the defense that's bringing down our team.

Your kidding, right?

The entire team is bringing the fan down!

If the defense played teams to 17 points a game, I think the offense would cave under the pressure because they would have to play an entire 4 quarters.

That is why I was hoping for a close game against the Redskins. Let's see what the offense can do the entire game. Hopefully that will happen against Miami.

You guarantee this, if the game is on the line, the defense is throwing the kichen sink at Carr.

Anguyen
09-25-2006, 06:17 PM
What if we go 0-16 and Jeff Fisher is available in the off-season? :stirpot:
He is great for defense cordinator. :yahoo:

mexican_texan
09-25-2006, 06:19 PM
Your kidding, right?

The entire team is bringing the fan down!

If the defense played teams to 17 points a game, I think the offense would cave under the pressure because they would have to play an entire 4 quarters.

That is why I was hoping for a close game against the Redskins. Let's see what the offense can do the entire game. Hopefully that will happen against Miami.

You guarantee this, if the game is on the line, the defense is throwing the kichen sink at Carr.
I like what I see from the offense early in the game. I never like what I see from the D.

hollywood_texan
09-25-2006, 06:32 PM
I like what I see from the offense early in the game. I never like what I see from the D.

Are you still kidding?

Take away the opening drives from the Eagle and Redskin games and the offense would be just as scorched as the defense.

I don't think this offense could win if the defense held a team to 14 points. Why, because we haven't seen them play an entire 4 quarters.

Unfortunately, this defense plays bad and they give up points. This offense plays bad and just gets off the field so the defense can be exposed even more.

Both sides of the ball are a joke. The offense is troubling to me when we have an offensive mastermind in Kubiak and David Carr as the QB and they are worse than last year's team.

Anguyen
09-25-2006, 06:35 PM
Dumb thread.
++++1

mexican_texan
09-25-2006, 06:35 PM
Are you still kidding?

Take away the opening drives from the Eagle and Redskin games and the offense would be just as scorched as the defense.

I don't think this offense could win if the defense held a team to 14 points. Why, because we haven't seen them play an entire 4 quarters.

Unfortunately, this defense plays bad and they give up points. This offense plays bad and just gets off the field so the defense can be exposed even more.

Both sides of the ball are a joke. The offense is troubling to me when we have an offensive mastermind in Kubiak and David Carr as the QB and they are worse than last year's team.
Take away the opening drives and I rarely like the offense.

hollywood_texan
09-25-2006, 06:36 PM
Take away the opening drives and I rarely like the offense.

Thanks for hanging in there with me. I think we probably agree on a lot of things then.

Double Barrel
09-25-2006, 07:16 PM
He is great for defense cordinator. :yahoo:

No doubt. We'd have to pay through the nose for him, though...

But he's a head coach for another team the first year he's fired/let go by the Titans. Dude will land on his feet immediately, and probably quickly improve whatever team he takes over.

Nighthawk
09-25-2006, 07:33 PM
I’m not calling for Kubiak’s head, but there is a possibility the only team we will beat is the Raiders. It isn’t out of the question that the Titans could beat us twice. We just gave up 495 yards against the Redskins and have progressively gotten worse every week.

Nearly everyone thought that we were getting better year-by-year when we went 7-9, but demanded (including myself) Capers to be let go after a terrible season. Last year’s losses were much closer too. There is no way around it; we are a terrible football team who is worse than last year’s team.

What does this mean if we are 1-15? Does Kubiak keep his job? Are most of the assistant coaches fired? I wonder…

I agree this is a little dopey. We're trying to grow a coach here with Kubiak. It's like a high draft choice. He has a lot of good experience and background (though never a quality player) and we've brought him in to see if he can go from a GOOD ASSISTANT coach to a GOOD HEAD COACH. THese are vastly different things, apparently, and the jury is out and will be out for three or four years. He's got that long to produce. If we have three or four years of 1-15 or similar, THEN you can call for his head.

Buffi2
09-25-2006, 08:10 PM
Dumb thread.

Word. For gracious sakes - the guy has only been our head coach for 3 games and already you want someone else? Retire this thread for 3 years.

edo783
09-25-2006, 08:31 PM
I'm giving Kubiak till the bye week, if he doesn't turn it around we are going to can his butt. Yeah, that will work. That's how to win. Made it work big time in Madden. We don't need no stinkin time. Make it work right now. By the way, anyone see where I put my microwave popcorn?