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View Full Version : Is Mario Williams NFL ready?


gtexan02
09-25-2006, 10:03 AM
There was a lot of talk about how drafting Wiliams #1 would allow us to play the #1 pick more than if we drafted Young (1-2 year project) or Bush (split carries).

All the commentators thorughout the game, a lot of the posters, and even I have noticed recently that despite having great athletic ability, he seems utterly confused in the NFL. He bites on fakes, misses on screens, and reacts too slowly almost every other time. He's not quick off the snap. He doesn't have any move other than the bull rush. He often launches himself as a tackler instead of making the solid wrap-up hit.

So here is my question: Are we rushing him into the starting lineup? We have some decent backup DEs, so why not start them and let Williams sit for a few weeks? Is it the media? Is it his confidence? Right now I actually think he is more of a liability than threat, and I would rather play Babin or Peek than continue getting poor play from someone just because he's getting $60+ million

powerfuldragon
09-25-2006, 10:07 AM
he's might be rushed into the starting lineup, but he sho' hasn't rushed no quartabacks.

(said it before anyone else to get it out of the way.)

D-Vizzl
09-25-2006, 10:11 AM
I want to hear from people who attended practices, has he ever showed any of you that he has a swim move, or did he lower his shoulder and degree his body, I have yet to see any of these two and even Courtney Brown possessed this, heck even Thomas Johnson displays signs of it.

MYDAUGHTER'STEXANS
09-25-2006, 10:19 AM
Every sports news station in the country is saying Mario is raw........he might need some time to watch from the side as you stated, the pressure on him is enormous, I'm sure that does not help neither.....

HOU-TEX
09-25-2006, 10:22 AM
If he was to sit and watch. Who's going to fill the spot? Has anyone noticed someone stepping up? From what I saw yesterday, no.

TexanFanInCC
09-25-2006, 10:50 AM
he looks unready, but who doesnt look unready on this defense? mario probably isnt the weakest link on our defense. the only reason why people exploit him as being the weakest link is because we drafted him over bush.

TexanFanInCC
09-25-2006, 10:55 AM
and im not a big fan of what the coaching staff has done with him by moving him around the line. sure it says alot about how the coaches feel about his potential, but its hard to get comfortable when u are lining up at different spots. they need to keep him in one spot and let him get comfortable b4 transitioning him around.

Tale Gator
09-25-2006, 10:59 AM
Mario is seeming more and more like a long-term project, but there is no reason to not have him in there getting game experience vs. seasoned pros.

Vinny
09-25-2006, 11:02 AM
Mario Williams is raw...he has zero football instinct. He runs himself out of plays, has zero bull rush, and stands upright way way way too much and loses all his leverage. He is easily blocked by TE's right now...hell, even blocking backs are stoning him. Too bad Wake Forest isn't on our schedule.

joetexan
09-25-2006, 11:03 AM
He has not shown a shred of evidence that he was deserving of being No. 1 overall. Maybe Reggie Bush hasn't put up monster stats yet (though he has produced), but he's definitely shown glimpses. I haven't watched Vince Young play to know whether he has or not, but he'll be starting in Tennessee later this year so he must be doing something right. D'Brickashaw had that monster block on a long run down the sideline, and the Jets are 2-1 and he's played a role in it. Vernon Davis has caught a TD, made a few nice plays, but then got hurt yesterday and is out for a month. AJ Hawk has made a couple of plays here and there in Green Bay.

Mario has done zero. He's shown zero prospects of anything like a top defensive player. And he's shown zero intensity. I'm thinking that's not "raw". He's just not that good.

Htown34s
09-25-2006, 11:13 AM
If he is a bust, as a number 1 overall, that would set us back 2 years IMO.

Also IMO, you don't take that big of a project overall number 1, especially in this years draft class.

We were told that McNair wants to win now, not later, that is why we took Mario. That tells me that they didn't think he was that much of a project. That tells me that the head office made an assumption that was wrong.

Sad truth is that 3 of our D-Linemen we drafted in the first round who may not be able to start on most of the other teams in the league...

SESupergenius
09-25-2006, 11:23 AM
I agree, he's getting locked up too easily by weaker opponents in 1 on 1's. He should have a sack by now considering he's not double teamed and the TE is put on him. Inexcuseable. He needs to go look at tapes of Reggie White and learn how to do more moves.

Blake
09-25-2006, 11:31 AM
Quote from Mario about the Skins.

“He was throwing the ball quickly for one thing, and I was getting double and triple-teamed. They were using play action pass with a tight end and a tackle blocking me. As a unit, though we still have to make strides to get better and get back there to disrupt the play.”

Was he getting doubled, and tripple teamed? I didnt see it.

Double Barrel
09-25-2006, 11:32 AM
Mario Williams is raw...he has zero football instinct. He runs himself out of plays, has zero bull rush, and stands upright way way way too much and loses all his leverage. He is easily blocked by TE's right now...hell, even blocking backs are stoning him. Too bad Wake Forest isn't on our schedule.

Exactly. I watched him every play he was on the field (through binoculars), and he was getting owned. He NEVER showed any flashes of greatness, to where you could say "now I see why they drafted him".

One play a TE blocked him and went on to catch a pass for a gain. Another had an o-lineman picking him up where Mario's feet kept running but there was no ground. It looked like a freakin' cartoon!

I've given him the benefit of the doubt...but that doubt is creeping into my inner being.

Mr. White
09-25-2006, 11:33 AM
Mario Williams is raw...he has zero football instinct. He runs himself out of plays, has zero bull rush, and stands upright way way way too much and loses all his leverage. He is easily blocked by TE's right now...hell, even blocking backs are stoning him. Too bad Wake Forest isn't on our schedule.

Anybody else see that Redskins TE tie him up for the block, let him go, and then catch the ball? They were toying with him.

I've been trying to take up for him but he's making it tough....

I'm thinking that Richard Smith is more of a problem than anybody playing...even D-Rob looks like a chump lately.

WWJD
09-25-2006, 11:34 AM
Maybe he should be moved to defensive tackle and kept there.

TheOgre
09-25-2006, 11:36 AM
Too bad Wake Forest isn't on our schedule.

We will have to settle for the Oakland Raiders.

profan
09-25-2006, 11:37 AM
i did not zero in on mario every play, the few times i watched him, he was not getting double or triple teamed. He would try to rush from the outside and all the blocker had to due was just follow and push him out of the play. he took himself out of alot of plays with this outside rush and the back just slid inside on some plays. not impressive at all. no one in their right mind would triple team this guy. It is not necessary at this point in time.

TheOgre
09-25-2006, 11:37 AM
If he is a bust, as a number 1 overall, that would set us back 2 years IMO.

How does that set us back two years? If we are bad again this year, then we will likely draft in the top 5. We would basically be right back where we were coming into this year's draft.

Vinny
09-25-2006, 11:38 AM
Mario should challenge the others to a bench press or 3 cone drill, in shorts....that will show you some upside.

Vinny
09-25-2006, 11:39 AM
How does that set us back two years? If we are bad again this year, then we will likely draft in the top 5. We would basically be right back where we were coming into this year's draft.The same way Carr and his 60 mil contract set us back a couple of years waiting for him. When you take players at the top of the draft and pay them more than everyone else on your team and they don't play at a level at half that money you set yourself back.....as long as it takes for their play to match (at least remotely) their cap hit.

Double Barrel
09-25-2006, 11:40 AM
Mario should challenge the others to a bench press or 3 cone drill, in shorts....that will show you some upside.

For a big guy, he can run very fast in a straight line, too.

Mycco
09-25-2006, 11:48 AM
Football Decision My Foot!

Y'all Bought That Line. I Knew From The Jump He Was A Chump. What Did He Do In College? All Mario Was, Was Easier To Have Signed Before Training Camp Started. Plain And Simple. The Front Office Wanted Someone Signed Ahead Of Time In Case The Gm Serach Took Longer Than Expected. And Reggie, Although Small, Is Making Contributions To His Team. Mario Is Nothing More Than A Spectator In Uniform. He Has A Front Row Seat Every Game.

Bearfan Blue and Orange
09-25-2006, 12:00 PM
I think Mario has instincts, he is just not using them yet JMO. The thing I have a problem with is the rest of the DLINE and the LB/Safety if he is getting double teamed.

If he is getting double teamed and someone else on the DLINE should be 1 on 1 and if they cannot get past their guy, why aren't they sending LBs or Safety on a delay to help put pressure and get that extra guy off Mario.

I just hope they come to his aid and show Mario thanks for taking that extra guy. In defense, you want to get pressure form the front 4 of course, but is is the front 7 that really dictate the pressure!!!

Cincinnatikid
09-25-2006, 12:06 PM
I think Mario has instincts, he is just not using them yet JMO. The thing I have a problem with is the rest of the DLINE and the LB/Safety if he is getting double teamed.

If he is getting double teamed and someone else on the DLINE should be 1 on 1 and if they cannot get past their guy, why aren't they sending LBs or Safety on a delay to help put pressure and get that extra guy off Mario.

I just hope they come to his aid and show Mario thanks for taking that extra guy. In defense, you want to get pressure form the front 4 of course, but is is the front 7 that really dictate the pressure!!!

The thing really is that he isnt double teamed. He is getting straight one man blocking and he will until he does something. I have not seen even his speed yet.

Vinny
09-25-2006, 12:13 PM
I think Mario has instincts, he is just not using them yet JMO. this is a strange statement. Do you think that football players that play "instinctively" turn this on and off? I see wooden, forced play by someone who doesn't seem to understand what he is doing. Even when he gets an edge on someone he seems to be totally lost at what to do next. So far he has only looked good in backside pursuit....and that is a backhanded compliment.

Mycco
09-25-2006, 12:16 PM
The thing really is that he isnt double teamed. He is getting straight one man blocking and he will until he does something. I have not seen even his speed yet.

My thoughts exactly. Why would I waste my time double teaming him when my FB or TE can do the job himself. He can't shed his blockers quick enough to make any tackles much less beat his man for a sack or even pressure the opposing QB. People keep saying it isn't fair to compare him and Reggie since they play different positions, so why not compare their contributions to their rescpective teams. Reggie does contribute, Mario doesn't! Somebody please tell me what was so impressive about him in college that warrented him being rated so high.

HomeBred_Texan
09-25-2006, 12:19 PM
this is a strange statement. Do you think that football players that play "instinctively" turn this on and off? I see wooden, forced play by someone who doesn't seem to understand what he is doing. Even when he gets an edge on someone he seems to be totally lost at what to do next. So far he has only looked good in backside pursuit....and that is a backhanded compliment.

Hey, I would get on my feet and yell like crazy if the guy just hit the QB, even if it is late and costs us 15 yards. I want something, anything right now. Tackles my rear, I want to see him at least grab the jersey of the QB... But he hasn't even been THAT close yet...

Bearfan Blue and Orange
09-25-2006, 12:23 PM
You play two ways, you can play with instinct which is reaction and just go!!! or you play by the "book"

There are many players that go through this in the early part of their career. They are soo worried about the playbook, that they are concentrating on where the diagram shows I should be, kinds like "if I go here, the other person is suppose to be there, and that would mean this would happen."

Versus

The ball is snapped and knowing my techniques, game film studied, learning your opponent's tendancies, "I am going to rush this way or that way" still playing withing the scheme, but using your instincts to block your opponent in or out, down , or spin, or whatever.

The game slows down for a player that plays with insticts versus having too much going on in their head before the snap.

Urlacher went through this the first part of his rookie season, I see AJ Hawk going through it right now.

I think Mario may be in this "just don't get burned" mindframe, which is leading to him getting burned, instead of just GO GO GO!!! and deal with what happens after that.

Vinny
09-25-2006, 12:26 PM
"football instinct" does not equate to "reaction time". Playing "by the book" is what instinctive players do....instinctively.

Bearfan Blue and Orange
09-25-2006, 12:28 PM
"football instinct" does not equate to "reaction time". Playing "by the book" is what instinctive players do....instinctively.

Never used the word REACTION TIME, I just just react and go.

Bearfan Blue and Orange
09-25-2006, 12:30 PM
"football instinct" does not equate to "reaction time". Playing "by the book" is what instinctive players do....instinctively.


Playing by the book AFTER you have learned it.

Instictively is not "just playing by the book"... it is "playing without thinking"

Mr teX
09-25-2006, 12:30 PM
Every sports news station in the country is saying Mario is raw........he might need some time to watch from the side as you stated, the pressure on him is enormous, I'm sure that does not help neither.....

I'm sure that he has been rushed in to the lineup & his head is swimming, that happens to rooks. And like the above stated, he's got all kinds of pressure on him; having said that we are paying him too much to "watch" he needs to get out there & see how teams are gonna game plan against him, even if it is painful to watch. I don't think he is that much of a liability (at least not so much as the rest of the D) b/c he is getting there, he's just having trouble shedding the blocks. He has yet to gain an identity as a pass rusher (speed vs power), but that is mainly b/c he is young & raw. If he's doing this in yr. 3 then Houston, we have a problem.

Mycco
09-25-2006, 12:31 PM
If this guy has so many question marks, then why is he even out on the field? On the job training and big contract aside. I thought the idea was for the team to improve. Right now we are worse than last year, and we spent a ton of money on defensive players and not one of them has earned a cent of it.

kcwilson
09-25-2006, 12:34 PM
The thing really is that he isnt double teamed. He is getting straight one man blocking and he will until he does something. I have not seen even his speed yet.

Mario's speed has been on display the whole season.... Anyone see how fast he runs right into a TE and tackle? He just doesn't go anywhere after that. He is regularly the first DLineman to be blocked out of a play.

I WANT to be sold on Mario as a long term solution. It is hard, but I think he is a good person, with good talent, and am not ready to throw him to the curb after three games.

The onus is on the coaching staff to get Mario the help he needs, which is coaching about the system, extensive video coaching, and technique coaching. Kubiak chose his horse, now he has to ride it.

dskillz
09-25-2006, 12:36 PM
I didn't see Mario getting double teamed at all yesterday, yet today in the Chronicle he is quoted as saying, "and I was getting double- and tripled-teamed. They were using play-action passes with a tight end and a tackle blocking me."

I have tried to have give Mario the benefit of the doubt, but now I am really starting to think we screwed that pick up royally. He has all the physical talents, but has no clue what he is doing on the field. This is going to be another long season.

kcwilson
09-25-2006, 12:37 PM
I'm sure that he has been rushed in to the lineup & his head is swimming, that happens to rooks. And like the above stated, he's got all kinds of pressure on him; having said that we are paying him too much to "watch" he needs to get out there & see how teams are gonna game plan against him, even if it is painful to watch. I don't think he is that much of a liability (at least not so much as the rest of the D) b/c he is getting there, he's just having trouble shedding the blocks. He has yet to gain an identity as a pass rusher (speed vs power), but that is mainly b/c he is young & raw. If he's doing this in yr. 3 then Houston, we have a problem.


Agreed. He is a man, he needs to go out and work on these things and take responsibility for his job. If he isn't getting it done, then for $56M, he better be in the tape room early, often, and the last one to leave.

Vinny
09-25-2006, 12:40 PM
Playing by the book AFTER you have learned it.

Instictively is not "just playing by the book"... it is "playing without thinking"instinct is understanding body language, leverage, angles and when to drive someone into the ground when you have leverage, or when to spin when the opponent leans to much one way...football instinct is the ability to shoot the gap because you feel that the run is coming your way based on how your opponent's feet are aligned....instinct is taking the proper angle when you run down a player on the edge...instinct in football is all about having a good feel for leverage and speed and exploiting it when it is your favor. Coaching players proven techniques can enhance your instinct, but if don't have any to begin with you end up looking like Mario Williams.

Bamaborn-Texasbred
09-25-2006, 01:37 PM
Exactly. I watched him every play he was on the field (through binoculars), and he was getting owned. He NEVER showed any flashes of greatness, to where you could say "now I see why they drafted him".

One play a TE blocked him and went on to catch a pass for a gain. Another had an o-lineman picking him up where Mario's feet kept running but there was no ground. It looked like a freakin' cartoon!

I've given him the benefit of the doubt...but that doubt is creeping into my inner being.

He told the press in the locker room that he was getting double and triple teamed. I was at the game and I didn't notice much double and certainly no triple teaming. He gets in the backfield after the running back is already five yard up the field or the quarterback has already left the pocket. I was also trying to stay positive and upbeat about taking him over Reggie Bush, but it is getting extremely difficult to ignore the performance I see on the field. Meanwhile, Bush is probably going to be a human highlight film tonight in New Orleans. I closed my eyes while I was in section 623 yesterday and pictured Bush in my head wearing a #25 Texans battle red jersey. It looked awfully sweet.

noxiousdog
09-25-2006, 01:37 PM
Quote from Mario about the Skins.

“He was throwing the ball quickly for one thing, and I was getting double and triple-teamed. They were using play action pass with a tight end and a tackle blocking me. As a unit, though we still have to make strides to get better and get back there to disrupt the play.”

Was he getting doubled, and tripple teamed? I didnt see it.

Sometimes? I thought they helped with a second man quite often, but I don't think that was a function of Mario so much as having 6 or 7 to block 4 nearly every time.

real
09-25-2006, 01:39 PM
Well Reggie Will be on Tonight So Make sure ya'll check 'em out...

Bamaborn-Texasbred
09-25-2006, 01:42 PM
Sometimes? I thought they helped with a second man quite often, but I don't think that was a function of Mario so much as having 6 or 7 to block 4 nearly every time.

The d line isn't getting much of a push, but there isn't a whole lot of quick decision linebacking going on either. When Dunta is our leading tackler the poop has really hit the fan. Andre and Dunta played some amazing football yesterday, but it wasn't worth the price of admission.

Oh, and speaking of admission. They announced the paid attendance to be over 70 thou.... I bet there weren't enough fannys there to fill the juice box downtown.

thunderkyss
09-25-2006, 01:54 PM
Can someone point to a particular play he was stoned by a tightend or a FB??

I thought he had a good game yesterday. He was beating #76 all day. That hold on #76, that was Mario on his way to sack.

I remember seeing Cooley trying to cut block Mario, and he swished him to the side, like a fly.

They ran the ball away from Mario a lot. and those dump offs hurt anyone's chance to get a sack.

I think there is so much pressure on Mario to get a sack, that Richard Smith is rushing the QB on every play, instead of playing the run....... & the way the whole Defensive line looks, I doubt they even seen the reverse in practice.

Mario's got it. Everything Kubiak has said he has........ the man's is going to be a monster, once the DL plays as a DL, and the Defense plays as a team.

thunderkyss
09-25-2006, 01:57 PM
The d line isn't getting much of a push, but there isn't a whole lot of quick decision linebacking going on either. When Dunta is our leading tackler the poop has really hit the fan. Andre and Dunta played some amazing football yesterday, but it wasn't worth the price of admission.

Oh, and speaking of admission. They announced the paid attendance to be over 70 thou.... I bet there weren't enough fannys there to fill the juice box downtown.

Dunta made some good stops no doubt. but his man scored on us twice. There was one play in particular..... Randall El lined up as an H-back on Brunnels right.... Dunta had him one on one.

Cooley was the other Hback on Brunnels left.....

I believe Betts was the tailback. All manned up. The tailback & Cooley went right, towards Dunta.... Randle El went left away from Dunta. Dunta had to run all the way across the field and was way too late on the play.

Smart play by Washington. I expect to see it with regularity for the rest of the season.

real
09-25-2006, 02:21 PM
I think there is so much pressure on Mario to get a sack, that Richard Smith is rushing the QB on every play, instead of playing the run.......


C'mon....Rushing the QB instead of playing the run ??? If he wanted the QB so bad he'd blitz more.....Thats an exscuse...Mario hasn't played well so far because he isn't good...yet...or at all...take your pick...

Vinny
09-25-2006, 02:23 PM
Can someone point to a particular play he was stoned by a tightend or a FB??

I thought he had a good game yesterday. He was beating #76 all day. That hold on #76, that was Mario on his way to sack. no offense, but we watched two different games I guess. Williams looked lost to me. He was pretty much invisible.

Vinny
09-25-2006, 02:31 PM
Its very easy to block 4 defensive lineman long enough to make a short screen pass with 5 or more blockers when you know where the rush will be coming from; because, your Defensive Coordinator won't call a blitz more than once a game. Then, it turns into a big gain; because, the reciever is so wide open. They lost due more to bad playcalling than anything else.
the blitz is exactly what you don't want to call vs the screen. Nice try though.

Htown34s
09-25-2006, 02:33 PM
This is total BS as if someone is born with "football instinct." All of what you listed is learned from repetition not something you have or don't have.

I think football knowledge is more what Vinny is speaking about.

WWJD
09-25-2006, 02:33 PM
I don't have time or the patience to focus on one player and I'm not a fan of the "break down the game" shows but it would seem from all the comments on this board that this guy is not being coached very well.

He has physical tools but it seems they aren't being utilized or developed.

Htown34s
09-25-2006, 02:35 PM
Dunta made some good stops no doubt. but his man scored on us twice. There was one play in particular..... Randall El lined up as an H-back on Brunnels right.... Dunta had him one on one.

Several times this year our DB's have made assignment mistakes that led to TDs or big gains. Just because Dunta is closest to someone who is wide open doesn't mean it was his guy. Our DB's aren't switching off very well right now.

If you ask me, there are only two outstanding players on our entire team, Dunta and AJ. Thats it.

Hulk75
09-25-2006, 02:37 PM
Richard Smith needs to get his act together PERIOD!

Because this does not only make Mario look bad it is making Dunta Robinson look just as bad.

Vinny
09-25-2006, 02:37 PM
I think football knowledge is more what Vinny is speaking about.all physical games have a certain amount of instinct. I wouldn't consider Steve Francis very instinctive at the point guard...but no doubt he is an incredible athlete....but he can't make plays like less athletic point guards like Steve Nash. Some guys have it, and some guys don't....and no amount of coaching will get you there if you don't get it.

Runner
09-25-2006, 02:39 PM
I don't have time or the patience to focus on one player and I'm not a fan of the "break down the game" shows but it would seem from all the comments on this board that this guy is not being coached very well.

He has physical tools but it seems they aren't being utilized or developed.

It's more than that. I've seen him come from behind a running play and he just looped around the backfield instead of aggressively cutting to the runner to make the stop. He was trotting in his loop, rather than exploding toward the ball. He should know to go after the guy with the ball.

WWJD
09-25-2006, 02:41 PM
Well if he's taking plays off or is just too winded then it's obvious the Texans made a poor decision in drafting him so high. Which some have been saying all along!

Vinny
09-25-2006, 02:51 PM
I think it is a lack of talent...it isn't scheme. Great talent with a vanilla scheme will give you some results. Great schemes with poor talent will not matter.

WWJD
09-25-2006, 02:56 PM
Lance on 610 this morning was saying that Mario just doesn't seem to have great football skills...I think he was saying he does all the combine stuff like Superman but when it comes to the play on the field then he seems to be lacking and not have that natural ability so many seem to have.

Before this game I was sort of ambivalent; you know it's just been a few games, he's a rookie, he's got a lot to learn, new coaches, coming from college to the pros isn't easy.

After reading this thread and some others elsewhere and hearing the radio guys I'm seriously rethinking my opinion and it's worrisome as a fan.

They really couldn't afford to blow this pick.

Mr. White
09-25-2006, 03:02 PM
No its a lack of playcalling. Nobody is successful rushing a straight forward 4-3 in the NFL anymore. That means rushing from the same front 4 positions and without using blitzes. If you can find an example please post it.

This is what I keep seeing. The DL goes for the blitz, LB's go into pursuit and the DBs play zone and give up yardage when they get thrown on.

We may as well start trying safety blitzes. They'll give up the pass anyway.

Having said that, I'm not a big X's and O's guy and watch the games from home. There's a lot that I don't see.

phantom17
09-25-2006, 03:04 PM
I think it is a lack of talent...it isn't scheme. Great talent with a vanilla scheme will give you some results. Great schemes with poor talent will not matter.

Vin, you sound like Yoda:) ! Good point!

Nawzer
09-25-2006, 03:07 PM
Mario Williams clearly does not look like someone deserving of the no.1 pick. That doesn't mean he won't become a great player but at this point he's not there. We're just going to have to sit back and watch how it works out. And don't tell me how much Reggie Bush or Vince Young could've made things different. Unless those 2 guys can play defense we probably would have the same results as we do now. Also blaming Mario for the defense stinking it up is not fair. There are other guys on that line who haven't done squat!!!

Texas
09-25-2006, 03:09 PM
I really hope we see more from mario..Im very dissapointed so far...Hopefully he will learn and become a threat like we drafted him to be.

Mr teX
09-25-2006, 03:18 PM
I think it is a lack of talent...it isn't scheme. Great talent with a vanilla scheme will give you some results. Great schemes with poor talent will not matter.

I watched a good portion of the Den/NE game last night & the LB's were picking up their RB pass responsibilities as they came out of the backfield. The secondary did the same, they didn't let their reciever just run free. All this came together forcing brady to hold a split second longer, The Texans LBs & secondary aren't doing that, they're chasing theirs out & around. With the exception of Demeco & Dunta, these other LBs & DBs just aren't that good in zone pass coverage.

I did notice however that the DC blitzed more often than ours, but for the most part their D-line wasn't pressuring brady all that much by themselves either.:twocents:

jerek
09-25-2006, 03:22 PM
Mario is raw and I agree that his instincts and technique both need work. He is "NFL ready" in the sense that he's functional but then again this is only a surprise to you if you forget that he came out as a junior from NcSt ... hardly a football mecca or a notable schedule. We drafted him for his physical gifts and for his upside, not because he had 14.5 sacks against a bunch of nobodies. Whether or not it was the right draft decision, it's the one we made and there were a lot of good reasons for it.

Nobody is content to just write off poor play and his salary as a learning curve and accept it, but you have to recognize what he came into the league as; a freak athlete who admittedly from the jump was going to need a lot of coaching and technique work. If he improves his technique he stands to be the monster we all hope he will be.

OTOH throwing a blitz now and then might help free him or his teammates up for a sack or two. Defensively we are in the bottom half of the league talent-wise, and there have been many instances where I have watched tape and seen someone clearly overpursue, botch a tackle, or make some other variety of personal error, but scheme is a big, big part of defensive success, or lack of it, and right now we're flat out not putting our guys in a position to make plays.

sleepwalker
09-25-2006, 04:03 PM
I watched the game again last night...I specifically watched mario and the defense...He was single handedly owned on 2 touchdowns...It's going to take some time people, deal with it.

I agree this guy is very green, but he has great strength and speed...I don't know if you saw this play, but he did run down santana moss from the opposite side of the field !!!

Saunders did a good job preparing his guys and making Mario look like a rookie ...In fact, Saunders called an excellent game against us and made Rick Smith look like a jack*****, especially the prevent defense that gave up the touchdown up the gut to Portis just before halftime.

Rediculous calls like that are part of the problem and the players know it.

DirtyPrince
09-25-2006, 05:08 PM
Hell to the No.

Anguyen
09-25-2006, 05:31 PM
MW is #1 pick and play like rookie Free Agent. LOL

Double Barrel
09-25-2006, 06:27 PM
Don't worry Lance on 610 won't be an NFL evaluator of talent anytime soon. He is just another ***** with an opinion like us the difference is someone thought it would be a good idea to put a microphone in front of his pie-hole.

Sometimes opinions reflect reality...and in this case, nothing can be provided as evidence that these opinions are not based in reality.

While a rookie, green, inexperienced, whatever, the simple fact of the matter is that Mario has yet to give us even ONE "wow" play in three games. Heck, he hasn't even given us an "oh" play (meaning "oh, I see why they chose him with the first overall pick").

Wolf
09-25-2006, 06:47 PM
So here is my question: Are we rushing him into the starting lineup? We have some decent backup DEs, so why not start them and let Williams sit for a few weeks? Is it the media? Is it his confidence? Right now I actually think he is more of a liability than threat, and I would rather play Babin or Peek than continue getting poor play from someone just because he's getting $60+ million


I hope that isn't the case for a 32nd ranked defense in 2005 that couldn't stop anyone and we draft DL #1 overall and he has to sit because he needs to learn the game.

I hope that isn't the case. If that was the case, we should have just traded down some spots and took whatever draft picks that they would have given us

thunderkyss
09-25-2006, 07:04 PM
C'mon....Rushing the QB instead of playing the run ??? If he wanted the QB so bad he'd blitz more.....Thats an exscuse...Mario hasn't played well so far because he isn't good...yet...or at all...take your pick...

Yes..... I see very little concern for the run game from our front 4 against Washington. It looked like the four DLinemen were individually going for the QB on every play... except maybe Seth... he had a better game than I expected.

But they are rushing upfield(or trying to) leaving big holes for the run game.

no offense, but we watched two different games I guess. Williams looked lost to me. He was pretty much invisible.

No...... maybe different expectations.... Like Xtruroyalty said.... when I rewatched the DVD-R....... He looks like a mOnster.... physically. His Power, his speed.....

His instincts are like you say..... poor. I don't beleive you can teach those, but you can teach him on certain plays, it's not a good idea to run the tackle/TE around the QB. Instead, in some situations........ it's better to close off the end.

I understand he is raw...... but I see more problems with what RichardSmith is asking him to do, not only does it look like his instincts are poor, but his focue is off........... when we expect a run...... go get the RB. When we expect a pass, go get the QB..... try to teach him to recognize the reverse..... etc... etc...... I wonder what exactly are they talking about through the week.... Looks like they are working on his Bench, and shuttle time.

Vinny
09-25-2006, 07:07 PM
You stated that the Skins were barely able to "survive the Mario Onslaught". Kubiak said point blank that he didn't play well and there are some people saying that Kubiak is calling him out publicly also (CP show). You go on believing whatever you are spewing.

blockhead83
09-25-2006, 07:09 PM
After thinking about the situation with Mario for a while two things come to mind.

1. It isn't the plays where Mario gets close to the quarterback but is too late that disappoint me, it's ALL of the other plays where he's a non-factor. He simply hasn't impacted the way the opposing team goes about their business. There's a handful of plays where he used his abilities to get close to the QB or the RB, but there's 20 plays for each of those where he just gets stood up or takes himself out of the play. It's unacceptable at this point, and I'm not sure it's going to get better this year.

2. Is it me or has nobody looked good on our defense this year? We do have talent on the defensive side of the ball.... Dunta isn't a pro-bowler but he's quite talented, as is Anthony Weaver. Even the people we know to be talented players have looked like street free agents to this point. That allows me to hold out some hope for Mario that maybe, just maybe if we can fix the things that are going on fundamentally and game-planning wise with this defense, he could show us that he's better than we think he is at this point.

cbnjwill
09-25-2006, 07:35 PM
all i read in this message board this offseason was how mario is 6'7 300 pounds with a 42 inch vertical leap and runs a 4.6. who cares this guy makes no plays and shouldnt even be on the field the only reason he starts is because he was the number one pick. if he was drafted in the 5th round you would hardly see this guy on the field.hey lets stop the hate on the local kid vy. hes not shown any reason to think he will be bust unlike mario. wheres all the walli lundy fans during the preseason they were all over the board bragging about how we dont need bush we got lundy and in this sytem any back can put up 1500 yards.right now our offense stinks the defense is even worse and the future doesnt look much better. we are now 2-17 our last 19 games freaking pathetic.maybe this organization should focus on bringing in good football talent instead of trying to prove how much smarter they are compared to other organizations. theres not one team in the league who would have taken mario number one and i dont think there is another team that would have stuck with carr this long

thunderkyss
09-25-2006, 08:18 PM
You stated that the Skins were barely able to "survive the Mario Onslaught". Kubiak said point blank that he didn't play well and there are some people saying that Kubiak is calling him out publicly also (CP show). You go on believing whatever you are spewing.

Yeah, the "Mario Onslaught" was a bit of hyperbole... & yes, Kubiak said he didn't play well..... he also said David didn't play well.

There were somethings David did well...... getting AJ involved early in the game.... hitting 6(??) recievers....... managing the no huddle, hurry up offense.

But there were some things he didn't do well, that makes his overall game poor.

Same with Mario..... he got up the field, he made a play of two.... he showed good hustle.....

But he was indecisive...... didn't contain the reverse (didn't stay at home).... didn't shed blocks........ failed to identify the run..... etc.

I think Mario has shown that he belongs in this league..... he was a half a second away from his first sack on several occasions, and was actually robbed of a sack by an offensive hold....


I'd love for him to have a rookie season like JuliusPeppers, JevonKearse & Darren Howard.... he still has 13 games to do so.

We will see.

thunderkyss
09-25-2006, 08:20 PM
I think it is a lack of talent...it isn't scheme. Great talent with a vanilla scheme will give you some results. Great schemes with poor talent will not matter.

Umm.... I thought we could take 6th round talent to the probowl with the right scheme....... 2000 rushing yards and all.

thunderkyss
09-25-2006, 08:26 PM
No its a lack of playcalling. Nobody is successful rushing a straight forward 4-3 in the NFL anymore. That means rushing from the same front 4 positions and without using blitzes. If you can find an example please post it.

If our guys could cover their recievers for 2 seconds, we'd get sacks.

Did you guys not notice the recievers coming out of the backfield were open??

When David does those dinks & dunks, we criticize him and blame him for our inept offense....... at least I do.

but both Philly & Washington hung 500 yards on our back 7 with dinks & dunks... are they that much talented than us at runningback....... tightend....... & fullback??

They are more talented, with Clinton Portis, and Brian Westbrook, but while they are running in 34 yard screens & shouvle passes, our guys are getting dropped at the spot they caught the ball... why?? Because their Linebackers & Safeties are actually helping their defensive lines.

thunderkyss
09-25-2006, 08:39 PM
Sometimes opinions reflect reality...and in this case, nothing can be provided as evidence that these opinions are not based in reality.

While a rookie, green, inexperienced, whatever, the simple fact of the matter is that Mario has yet to give us even ONE "wow" play in three games. Heck, he hasn't even given us an "oh" play (meaning "oh, I see why they chose him with the first overall pick").

Bull......

The play where Mario was held, was a wow play. the Play where he tossed Runyan to chase McNabb out of the pocket(McNabbs only rush for a first in the philly game) was a wow play. there are actually several Wow plays.... unfortunately, they haven't paid off.....

Open your eyes, as soon as we stop giving up 30+ yards on screens(the responsibility of the people who are supposed to cover the recievers who regularly catch screens) & 50+ yards on underneath routes...... routes that don't take but 2 seconds to develop...... then you'll see Mario, TJ, Babin & Peek get multiple sacks per game.

I honestly can't see how people can go back and watch the game.... tivo'd or what ever & not see why we picked him #1. There is no question. He's definitely worth the pick, and he's going to be something all Texans can be proud of........:superman:

thunderkyss
09-25-2006, 08:49 PM
After thinking about the situation with Mario for a while two things come to mind.

1. It isn't the plays where Mario gets close to the quarterback but is too late that disappoint me, it's ALL of the other plays where he's a non-factor. He simply hasn't impacted the way the opposing team goes about their business. There's a handful of plays where he used his abilities to get close to the QB or the RB, but there's 20 plays for each of those where he just gets stood up or takes himself out of the play. It's unacceptable at this point, and I'm not sure it's going to get better this year.

2. Is it me or has nobody looked good on our defense this year? We do have talent on the defensive side of the ball.... Dunta isn't a pro-bowler but he's quite talented, as is Anthony Weaver. Even the people we know to be talented players have looked like street free agents to this point. That allows me to hold out some hope for Mario that maybe, just maybe if we can fix the things that are going on fundamentally and game-planning wise with this defense, he could show us that he's better than we think he is at this point.


1. How many sacks did Darren Howard get against us?? None. How many batted balls?? None..... he was basically a non factor the whole game. Jevon Kearse only got one sack..... no batted balls, no forced fumbles..... one tackle... he was a non factor for the other 30 some odd snaps?? He & Howard both were on the sideline for three of the 5 sacks.

2. You can not be watching our games, if you think Weaver is amoung the more talented players on our Jason Babin, I think is our best DE....... he's got the power & the speed to get to the QB. TJ is playing very well, Sanders is playing very well...... Earl is playing well........ Demeco is making an impact...

Dunta & Weaver are closer to the bottom of the list so far.

gtexan02
09-25-2006, 08:51 PM
1. How many sacks did Darren Howard get against us?? None. How many batted balls?? None..... he was basically a non factor the whole game. Jevon Kearse only got one sack..... no batted balls, no forced fumbles..... one tackle... he was a non factor for the other 30 some odd snaps?? He & Howard both were on the sideline for three of the 5 sacks.

2. You can not be watching our games, if you think Weaver is amoung the more talented players on our D. Babin, I think is our best DE....... he's got the power & the speed to get to the QB. TJ is playing very well, Sanders is playing very well...... Earl is playing well........ Demeco is making an impact...

Dunta & Weaver are closer to the bottom of the list so far.

Sanders is playing well? Now I can't read the rest of the post.

thunderkyss
09-25-2006, 08:56 PM
all i read in this message board this offseason was how mario is 6'7 300 pounds with a 42 inch vertical leap and runs a 4.6. who cares this guy makes no plays and shouldnt even be on the field the only reason he starts is because he was the number one pick. if he was drafted in the 5th round you would hardly see this guy on the field.hey lets stop the hate on the local kid vy. hes not shown any reason to think he will be bust unlike mario. wheres all the walli lundy fans during the preseason they were all over the board bragging about how we dont need bush we got lundy and in this sytem any back can put up 1500 yards.right now our offense stinks the defense is even worse and the future doesnt look much better. we are now 2-17 our last 19 games freaking pathetic.maybe this organization should focus on bringing in good football talent instead of trying to prove how much smarter they are compared to other organizations. theres not one team in the league who would have taken mario number one and i dont think there is another team that would have stuck with carr this long



Stop watching ESPN.... tape the games.... a VCR will work, and rewatch the game. Slow mo it...... time the QBs release. Mario is playing like a #1 pick. I'd love to hear what the OLines of the Eagles, the Colts, & the Redskins have to say about him. Most likely they'll say once Mario gets his head in the game, he'll be hell on legs......

Vy....... I love Vince. I wish we would have drafted him. But I don't think Mario was a bust, & I don't think it was a mistake to Draft Mario.

& Lundy would do well....... anyone can run for 1500 yards in this system..... but we aren't running the ZBS, and haven't since the Denver preseason game.

thunderkyss
09-25-2006, 09:02 PM
Sanders is playing well? Now I can't read the rest of the post.

Sanders is playing well. Not very well, but well. He's our best Corner through three games. in passing defense...... against the run, it's Dunta hands down....

cbnjwill
09-25-2006, 09:17 PM
give me a break... i dont care if your watching espn fox cbs on a vcr or tivo. it is so easy to see that mario doesnt make plays consistently gets handled at the line of scrimmage and really doesnt play with enough intensity to be consistent. if you think this guy is playing like a number one pick i think your about the only one have another sip because you got more than kool aid in that cup. but i understand no matter how he performs your gonna see what you want to see

MrMeToo
09-25-2006, 09:21 PM
Stop watching ESPN.... tape the games.... a VCR will work, and rewatch the game. Slow mo it...... time the QBs release. Mario is playing like a #1 pick. I'd love to hear what the OLines of the Eagles, the Colts, & the Redskins have to say about him. Most likely they'll say once Mario gets his head in the game, he'll be hell on legs......

Vy....... I love Vince. I wish we would have drafted him. But I don't think Mario was a bust, & I don't think it was a mistake to Draft Mario.

& Lundy would do well....... anyone can run for 1500 yards in this system..... but we aren't running the ZBS, and haven't since the Denver preseason game.

It already seems like Mario moves in slow motion.

cbnjwill
09-25-2006, 09:24 PM
that freaking funny certainly more fitting than super mario

thunderkyss
09-25-2006, 09:43 PM
give me a break... i dont care if your watching espn fox cbs on a vcr or tivo. it is so easy to see that mario doesnt make plays consistently gets handled at the line of scrimmage and really doesnt play with enough intensity to be consistent. if you think this guy is playing like a number one pick i think your about the only one have another sip because you got more than kool aid in that cup. but i understand no matter how he performs your gonna see what you want to see

I've mentioned where Mario has been disappointing. But we didn't draft him as the most NFL ready DE. We drafted a Junior who is bigger, stronger, and faster than most any other DE drafted in the last 10 years.

Texans86
09-25-2006, 09:45 PM
I'm not sure if this has been brought up yet, but TJ wasn't playing well last year, and now he is starting and doing a good job. The NFL is a tough place, and it does take time to learn. I can deal with him taking time and getting better, if he continues to try to get better.

cbnjwill
09-25-2006, 09:59 PM
thats great but is he better? i dont really care what a guy does in a combine workout. his own coach at nc. state said mario was inconsistent and often took plays off. this guy had one season in college and put up some big sack totals in a handfull of games against weak competition. look at the guys he played with on his own defense. the wolfpack was loaded on defense and they still didnt do much

thunderkyss
09-25-2006, 10:07 PM
thats great but is he better? i dont really care what a guy does in a combine workout. his own coach at nc. state said mario was inconsistent and often took plays off. this guy had one season in college and put up some big sack totals in a handfull of games against weak competition. look at the guys he played with on his own defense. the wolfpack was loaded on defense and they still didnt do much

Did you mention he was a junior??

blockhead83
09-25-2006, 10:47 PM
1. How many sacks did Darren Howard get against us?? None. How many batted balls?? None..... he was basically a non factor the whole game. Jevon Kearse only got one sack..... no batted balls, no forced fumbles..... one tackle... he was a non factor for the other 30 some odd snaps?? He & Howard both were on the sideline for three of the 5 sacks.

2. You can not be watching our games, if you think Weaver is amoung the more talented players on our Jason Babin, I think is our best DE....... he's got the power & the speed to get to the QB. TJ is playing very well, Sanders is playing very well...... Earl is playing well........ Demeco is making an impact...

Dunta & Weaver are closer to the bottom of the list so far.

1. You spit out alot of nice stats there, but I'm going to address your comment on 2 right here, I did watch the games and Howard may not have batted any balls but he and Kearse were disrupting the Texans offense even on downs where they didn't earn a point in a stat column. You seem to have missed that point, which was the main point there. Mario doesn't have any sacks, and he hasn't made much of an impact on the stat columns period, but I could live with that if he was doing ANYTHING on those plays where he wasn't earning a tackle, or a sack, or a batted ball, or whatever. Mario isn't being disruptive. He's not man handling his blockers, he's not demanding double teams more frequently than our other DLineman, he's not making plays behind the line of scrimmage, he's not running down players downfield, he's not blowing up screens/reverses/sweeps, to be blunt he's not doing much at all that his spectacular physical attributes would suggest he's capable of.

2. If I'm not watching games, you're not thinking when you're reading my comments. I said I thought our entire D looked horrible, ya got that? I agree, Dunta and Weaver look bad so far, go back and read my post again. The fact of the matter is we know Dunta has game, he got robbed of a D. Rookie of the Year, and he's been a bright spot on this team in the past. We also know Weaver can play, he played a large role in what was one of the most dominant D's in NFL history on the Ravens when they won a super bowl. He's a talented young guy that can play. But guess what, you're right, they, as well as everyone else, have looked real bad so far. If guys that we know to be talented, or IMO are talented, can look this bad, maybe there's hope for Mario. I was just pointing out that Mario is an X factor at this point, he has no proven track record to go from. If known commodities look bad, maybe Mario is just falling victim to the same problem and could come around under better circumstances.

thunderkyss
09-25-2006, 11:09 PM
1. You spit out alot of nice stats there, but I'm going to address your comment on 2 right here, I did watch the games and Howard may not have batted any balls but he and Kearse were disrupting the Texans offense even on downs where they didn't earn a point in a stat column. You seem to have missed that point, which was the main point there. Mario doesn't have any sacks, and he hasn't made much of an impact on the stat columns period, but I could live with that if he was doing ANYTHING on those plays where he wasn't earning a tackle, or a sack, or a batted ball, or whatever. Mario isn't being disruptive. He's not man handling his blockers, he's not demanding double teams more frequently than our other DLineman, he's not making plays behind the line of scrimmage, he's not running down players downfield, he's not blowing up screens/reverses/sweeps, to be blunt he's not doing much at all that his spectacular physical attributes would suggest he's capable of.

It was Mario that chased Donovan out of the pocket when he ran for a frist down. I think it was Mario that hurried McNabb on the deep pass to Stallworth that he didn't catch. it was Mario who was doubled that allowed GlenEarl to tag McNabb as he threw the ball that LJ made a miraculous(sp) catch. Mario one handedly tackled Brian Westbrook.
It was Mario chasing Peyton for a first down. IT was Mario who chased Addai down for a tackle. Mario hurried several incomplete passes from Manning.
Sunday.... I didn't take notes on Sunday's game, but Mario did not get handled by a TE, or a FB. if you beleive so, please tell me when on the game clock so I can find it, because I did not see it.

If our back 7 would do their jobs, then the pressure that our DLine is getting on the QB would be obvious. But it is soooooo bad, check out the play by play on NFL.com..... short pass...... shortpass........ shortpass.... that are being turned into 30+ & 70+ yard touchdowns.....



2. If I'm not watching games, you're not thinking when you're reading my comments. I said I thought our entire D looked horrible, ya got that? I agree, Dunta and Weaver look bad so far, go back and read my post again.


I'm just saying Dunta & Weaver are two of the worst of our starters.... you singled them out as..............

Ok, I read it wrong...... I thought you were saying they were two of our better players......

my bad.

The fact of the matter is we know Dunta has game, he got robbed of a D. Rookie of the Year, and he's been a bright spot on this team in the past. We also know Weaver can play, he played a large role in what was one of the most dominant D's in NFL history on the Ravens when they won a super bowl. He's a talented young guy that can play. But guess what, you're right, they, as well as everyone else, have looked real bad so far. If guys that we know to be talented, or IMO are talented, can look this bad, maybe there's hope for Mario. I was just pointing out that Mario is an X factor at this point, he has no proven track record to go from. If known commodities look bad, maybe Mario is just falling victim to the same problem and could come around under better circumstances.

well..... yeah. if you'd have said it like that, then I wouldn't have even said anything in this thread..... good point...

great post......

just ignore me.

blockhead83
09-25-2006, 11:20 PM
Well, the difference between Mario doing these things and Howard doing these things is that opposing teams are moving the ball in spite of him. Mario'd look much better if those hurried throws he was causing weren't going for 1st downs and touchdowns, and that's not his fault. If he caused a hurried throw for a pick, his QB hurry would look alot better. So yea, good points.

LORK 88
09-25-2006, 11:38 PM
I think Mario is a bust.....but we need to help this team. They have no chance to ein unless we roclk the p;cae. Let's go!
No way im labeling anyone a bust til I give them 3 years. He's the 3rd youngest player in the NFL and needs time to further develop. Case in point, Alex Smith, the 1st overall pick in the 2005 who turned 21 after the draft ended up throwing 11 picks and 1 TD (against all of all teams), but now has the 10th best QB rating in the NFL right now. I know we want production now, but we gotta all be patient.

Napa Auto Parts
09-26-2006, 12:26 AM
I think Mario is a bust.....but we need to help this team. They have no chance to ein unless we roclk the p;cae. Let's go!

You dont say:jk:

threetoedpete
09-26-2006, 12:46 AM
give me a break... i dont care if your watching espn fox cbs on a vcr or tivo. it is so easy to see that mario doesnt make plays consistently gets handled at the line of scrimmage and really doesnt play with enough intensity to be consistent. if you think this guy is playing like a number one pick i think your about the only one have another sip because you got more than kool aid in that cup. but i understand no matter how he performs your gonna see what you want to see

He's getting lit up by tight ends. Not good. I think he will play like a number one pick. Be patient. Got a kid who's done it all his career with raw physical ablity. He has so much naked phisical ablity he could steam roll people in college. That doesn't work any more in the NFL. Give him time. He'll get it. My bigest criticism is his lack of his use of hands. He stays locked up to long on the blocker and gets no seperation. He's laying on the blocker instaed of giving him a shot and getting seperation. Fundimental defensive football. In the NFL you've got to have a little technique. Everyone wants to pin the work out/combine warrior to his tale , you're going to look foolish a couple of seasons from now.

Texans86
09-26-2006, 12:55 AM
I believe there's only one thing that can't be taught, and that is your physcial stature. You can't teach 6-1, 291 lbs. Also, his raw strength gives him a big step against his competition. Spin moves, swim moves, positions on the line can all be taught and mastered with repetition, but his physical attributes alone are enough to give him a huge advantage. I think Karmelowitz probably has Mario practicing all those moves daily just to get him used to the movement. Things will eventually slow down for Mario, and that's when offenses will have to focus on him.