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View Full Version : Spencer..LG....C....RG....Winston


pittbull
09-24-2006, 05:22 PM
Obviously this team is struggling on the offensive line. With Spencer down, this hurts us potentially for another year at the LT, as Spencer will have to learn the position on the fly again next season, BUT HE'S GOING TO BE DOMINANT!!!! But what about the RT? There is no reason why Winston should not be getting playing time. There is simply a revolving door on that right side. Anyone and everyone is blowing Wiegert up, and the entire line is unable to get comfortable. Put Winston in there, let him get his bumps and bruises and start building our bookend tackles, Spencer and Winston our the future Their young, physical, nasty and will only get better. These journeymen o-linemen peaked 3-4 years ago, and why Wiegert is still on the roster is beyond me You can keep the guy on the roster for deptha dn injury, but besides that, he shouldn't touch the field!

Runner
09-24-2006, 05:38 PM
There is certainly no guarantee that Spencer and Winston are our future book-end tackles.

Winston isn't playing right now because he isn't ready. Maybe he'll live up to expectations, maybe not.

Spencer looked pretty good the game and a half that he played. He wasn't as perfect as some seem to think, but he did look like he would be the real deal in the future. One of his weaknesses is that he is sometimes slow to very slow off the snap. On the play he got hurt, he was pushed back into the backfield because he was late getting off the snap. Basically one of his weaknesses contributed to the injury.

As I understand the injury, the tibia was broken near the top of the bone. When that happens it can cause soft tissue damage. So after his bone is healed he'll probably have to go in for more surgery on ligaments or whatever. That is why this injury might be career threatening. I'm certainly no doctor and am just passing along what I've heard.

texflex513
09-24-2006, 05:39 PM
Obviously this team is struggling on the offensive line. With Spencer down, this hurts us potentially for another year at the LT, as Spencer will have to learn the position on the fly again next season, BUT HE'S GOING TO BE DOMINANT!!!! But what about the RT? There is no reason why Winston should not be getting playing time. There is simply a revolving door on that right side. Anyone and everyone is blowing Wiegert up, and the entire line is unable to get comfortable. Put Winston in there, let him get his bumps and bruises and start building our bookend tackles, Spencer and Winston our the future Their young, physical, nasty and will only get better. These journeymen o-linemen peaked 3-4 years ago, and why Wiegert is still on the roster is beyond me You can keep the guy on the roster for deptha dn injury, but besides that, he shouldn't touch the field!

I agree... if the season is not salvageable after about 8-10 games i think winston should get in at RT he is our future so we might as well get him going early.

pittbull
09-24-2006, 07:16 PM
The season really is over now. The Texans are not goin to pull a major turn around, especially with what they are fielding. As for the response of Winston not being ready, you never know until the guy is thrown in the fire. Obviously they thought Wiegert is ready and a 11 yr vet is getting his lunch handed to him. This season is a wash! By getting this offensive unit to play together for a year, it will only make them better for the futue. I don't believe in that, play him when he is "absolutely ready" theory. Winston can certainly do no worst than Wiegert who has played like he wants to be released and get an early vacation. As for bookend tackles, that's how you get them. Any team that has them, has allowed them to gel over time together to make them the force they are in the league.

Runner
09-24-2006, 07:39 PM
The season really is over now. The Texans are not goin to pull a major turn around, especially with what they are fielding. As for the response of Winston not being ready, you never know until the guy is thrown in the fire. Obviously they thought Wiegert is ready and a 11 yr vet is getting his lunch handed to him. This season is a wash! By getting this offensive unit to play together for a year, it will only make them better for the futue. I don't believe in that, play him when he is "absolutely ready" theory. Winston can certainly do no worst than Wiegert who has played like he wants to be released and get an early vacation. As for bookend tackles, that's how you get them. Any team that has them, has allowed them to gel over time together to make them the force they are in the league.

Unless you destroy Winston's confidence too because you play him before he's good enough to compete with NFL starters in live games.

texasguy346
09-24-2006, 07:44 PM
I'm alot more comfortable with Wiegart at RT than I am with Salaam at LT. There were a few plays today where he seemed confused on who to block & came up blocking air.

Texans Horror
09-24-2006, 08:05 PM
I only watched the first half, but from what I saw, Salaam was having a hard time at LT. I understand it's his first start (after coming in during the Indy fiasco), but I did not see anything to make me think we won't see more of the same from him for another 13 games...

Is there any chance we can trade for something better?

Runner
09-24-2006, 08:10 PM
I only watched the first half, but from what I saw, Salaam was having a hard time at LT. I understand it's his first start (after coming in during the Indy fiasco), but I did not see anything to make me think we won't see more of the same from him for another 13 games...

Salaam got pushed back to Carr quite a few times. Thiis was the first game that I can remember Carr consistently bailing out his o-line. He stood in and got rid of the ball under pressure a few times instead of ducking and running. That was definite improvement in Carr's play, and the lineman certainly like to see that. Had he panicked as he has at times in the past they certainly would have given up a couple more sacks.

I only watched the game as it was being played so I'm not sure, but possibly Hodgdon at center was reducing some of the pressure up the middle, thus making Carr a little more comfortable.

Texans Horror
09-24-2006, 08:16 PM
Seemed like it was always coming from the sides. Don't tell anyone I said this -- I don't want to get hate mail -- but Carr looked good evading defensive ends for thirty minutes. He is showing signs of definite improvement. I didn't watch the garbage time, though, so maybe things changed.

rmartin65
09-24-2006, 08:16 PM
We still have a year to wait for that. I want to see some improvement soon.

Texans Horror
09-24-2006, 08:18 PM
Five years and still no line. I swear I wouldn't be beating this drum so much if it just didn't feel like this was the difference between a losing and winning season.

texaslifter
09-24-2006, 08:20 PM
Similar to what Capers did to Carr? Only now is he recovering from the 4 seasons being pounded.

Oh, you mean after a whopping 3 games? Man, what a terrible decision to throw him in early.

Runner
09-24-2006, 08:53 PM
Beyond pass blocking, our running backs had 15 rushes for 58 yards. The o-line didn't play well today.

Texans Horror
09-25-2006, 09:28 AM
Spencer looked pretty good the game and a half that he played.

Why do we jump on the bandwagon of players that have been in a couple of games and qualify them as the next great thing? I saw the same thing happen with Hogdon, and he looked pretty ugly out there during the Skins game.

This line is moving backwards in ability. What gives?

Runner
09-25-2006, 09:46 AM
I posted this yesterday but many people were in "type don't read" mode and it may have been missed by interested people. Maybe there just weren't any interested people; regardless I'm quoting myself to bring it back up.

As I understand the injury, the tibia was broken near the top of the bone. When that happens it can cause soft tissue damage. So after his bone is healed he'll probably have to go in for more surgery on ligaments or whatever. That is why this injury might be career threatening. I'm certainly no doctor and am just passing along what I've heard.

HOU-TEX
09-25-2006, 10:00 AM
I agree the line still needs to be addressed, But when the Defense gives up an average of 32 points a game it tells me the offense isn't a major part of the problem. DC and the O did enough to possibly get a win if the D could stop anything. I know we only scored 15 pts, but if the D were to get off the field quicker, who's to say they wouldn't have scored more? They moved the ball good enough to win the game. Stupid mistakes and a horrible defense cost us the game. Again!:francis:

texasguy346
09-25-2006, 10:11 AM
Beyond pass blocking, our running backs had 15 rushes for 58 yards. The o-line didn't play well today.

I think the lack of production out of the run game is due to a few factors. One being the defense was horrid and Washington held on to the ball for a great deal of time. Another is that at halftime we were down 21 to 7 and playing from behind, but most importantly we don't have a legitimate running back.

Dayne is fine and good for a short yardage or goal line back, and Gado is fine for a 3rd string type back. Neither is a starting caliber back IMO. Lundy would be practice squad material for most teams, but for us he was our projected starter. It was a mistake, IMO, to deal away Morrency for Gado. Morrency was a legitimate homerun threat, but I really don't think he would have been starting caliber either although he would've been better than what we currently have. I just feel that Morrency has better quickness than any of our current backs, and he'd be able to get to a hole quicker and burst through. His vision wasn't very good, but he was tough to catch. I don't think there is any guy in our backfield who can get to the secondary & out run them.

*Side Note* This is just a first impression, but did anyone else think we ran more to the right side of the line than the left? I'll have to look at the game again and check it out, but it seemed that way to me at first glance.

Runner
09-25-2006, 10:20 AM
*Side Note* This is just a first impression, but did anyone else think we ran more to the right side of the line than the left? I'll have to look at the game again and check it out, but it seemed that way to me at first glance.

It wouldn't surprise me. Salaam is the softest LT we've had yet. His strentgth is mobility. He has very little power. He was being pushed back a great deal int he last game, and Washington doesn't have stud DEs as far as I know.

texasguy346
09-25-2006, 10:26 AM
It wouldn't surprise me. Salaam is the softest LT we've had yet. His strentgth is mobility. He has very little power. He was being pushed back a great deal int he last game, and Washington doesn't have stud DEs as far as I know.

I know that they didn't have one of their starting DTs and had to start a 6th round rookie. No surprise he had a good game against us. As far as their DEs they aren't all that impressive. We'll be faced with much stiffer competition against Dallas, and I'm worried about seeing Salaam against Ware.

The concerning thing about us running too much to one side is that if we can only run for positive yardage to the right opposing defense will catch on to that and our running game could possibly be even worse. It seems unfathomable that it could be worse than it is, but it's a very real possibility IMO. You can point to alot of Seth Wands weaknesses, and he had more than his share. However, you must admit he was a good runblocker, and when he was paired up with Pitts on the left side you could at least rely on those two to clear a hole for the running back. I'm not seeing much of an upside at all with Salaam. He looks poor against the run and the pass. He looks weak and he looks confused out there at times. Perhaps its taking him time to put it all together, but I don't know how long I can tolerate seeing that type of play at the LT position with what we, as Texans fans, have had to endure at that spot for our entire history.

HOU-TEX
09-25-2006, 10:29 AM
I know that they didn't have one of their starting DTs and had to start a 6th round rookie. No surprise he had a good game against us. As far as their DEs they aren't all that impressive. We'll be faced with much stiffer competition against Dallas, and I'm worried about seeing Salaam against Ware.
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Oh my! That does sound scary! Hopefully they utilize the TE for help.:wild:

powerfuldragon
09-25-2006, 10:30 AM
I don't want Dom Capers new team to beat us.

Runner
09-25-2006, 10:33 AM
Oh my! That does sound scary! Hopefully they utilize the TE for help.

Tell me that doesn't sound like last year!

HOU-TEX
09-25-2006, 10:36 AM
Tell me that doesn't sound like last year!

Well, so far everything sounds and looks like last year. Except a little more glimmer from the offense. Whatever the offense has done better in, the defense has overcome it in horrible fashion.:francis:

texasguy346
09-25-2006, 10:43 AM
I don't want Dom Capers new team to beat us.

His defense will certainly be much better than ours, and if we can't run the ball our chances of beating Miami will be slim. A strong running game is the only way we're going to be able to keep OUR defense off the field. Honestly, I don't like our chances of developing a good running game during the next week of practice. Most teams goal is to keep the opposing teams offense off the field. Ours will be to keep our defense off the field. Put them on a seperate bus that gets "lost" if you have to, but keep them off the field.

Hervoyel
09-25-2006, 10:50 AM
I only watched the first half, but from what I saw, Salaam was having a hard time at LT. I understand it's his first start (after coming in during the Indy fiasco), but I did not see anything to make me think we won't see more of the same from him for another 13 games...

Is there any chance we can trade for something better?

We could sign something better. Seth Wand is in a better position to step into that spot than anyone but Kubiak & Co. won't do it.

That bothers me. That has a bad feel to it. On the one hand I understand that to them this is entirely a rebuilding year and they aren't interested in trying to build anything with Seth Wand involved. On the other hand Gary's got a QB that he's trying to rehab and he is intentionally ignoring a player who can help for what appears to be no other reason than the fact that he's "not one of my guys".

That's entirely speculation on my part based on a few things passed to me by some people I believe and nothing more but it's what I think.

Texans Horror
09-25-2006, 01:36 PM
We could sign something better. Seth Wand is in a better position to step into that spot than anyone but Kubiak & Co. won't do it.

That bothers me. That has a bad feel to it. On the one hand I understand that to them this is entirely a rebuilding year and they aren't interested in trying to build anything with Seth Wand involved. On the other hand Gary's got a QB that he's trying to rehab and he is intentionally ignoring a player who can help for what appears to be no other reason than the fact that he's "not one of my guys".

That's entirely speculation on my part based on a few things passed to me by some people I believe and nothing more but it's what I think.

I try not to sound like a Seth Wand homer, which is why I am open to any proven veteran being fitted into this slot, but I have to agree. I think a chance to win again hinges on the tackles, and a proven veteran (who played throughout the preseason and was not known as a turnstile at his previous team) would be an immediate upgrade at the position, and it boggles my mind why this group of coaches, like last year's, are obstinate about not upgrading there. And I understand them not wanting to build something around Wand, but it seems like Kubiak is making the same mistakes that Capers made last year. Somebody (I think Runner) has Deja Vu as his tagline. I couldn't agree more. This feels like a broken record spinning the same stories and demises from last year. Except that we can't run this year.

Crazyhorse
09-25-2006, 02:00 PM
One thing is for sure, you will not destroy Winston's confience by putting him in there. If anything his aggression will grow. He trives on challenges. Followed this kid to long not to know that. He may not be perfect but his effort will be off the scale. Heck they may find he is a lot better than what they are thinking.

Hervoyel
09-25-2006, 02:14 PM
One thing is for sure, you will not destroy Winston's confience by putting him in there. If anything his aggression will grow. He trives on challenges. Followed this kid to long not to know that. He may not be perfect but his effort will be off the scale. Heck they may find he is a lot better than what they are thinking.


Sometimes that happens. Improvement can come in leaps and bounds when you put a guy like that in the fire and let him play. Some guys don't learn as fast practicing as they do playing at full speed.

I don't know if Winston is that kind of guy or not so all I'm saying is that your idea is not without merit. It might be worth a shot.

Texans Horror
09-25-2006, 04:00 PM
Can Winston do much worse than Weigert has done? I don't have that answer. As much as I would rather keep Winston out, I would not doubt it if he turned up on the field after the break. It would be nice if a new, solid LT was out there, too.

To me, you want to coach a player to success. Negative training (i.e., getting knocked on your butt for an hour at a Cowboys game) doesn't help the player. Playing well against a weaker Tennessee defensive line might.