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View Full Version : Who would you rather have at this point? Simpson or Daniels?


gtexan02
09-21-2006, 09:15 PM
There was a LOT of complaining when the Texans passed on Ko Simpson for Owen Daniels in the 4th.

Then he started to look good in preseason and got the start.

Then our secondary started being awful.

So who would you rather have at this point? Daniels or Simpson?

Reddevil63
09-21-2006, 09:23 PM
Why does this even matter? We have Daniels, not Simpson. I would rather have Portis over Chester Pitts and Derrick Johnson over TJ but there really isnt any point to what ifs.

mexican_texan
09-21-2006, 09:23 PM
Ko Simpson is an upgrade over who? Micheal Stone?

281
09-21-2006, 09:33 PM
Why does this even matter? We have Daniels, not Simpson. I would rather have Portis over Chester Pitts and Derrick Johnson over TJ but there really isnt any point to what ifs.

95% of what's posted on this forum are "what ifs"... i thought you'd be used to it by now

Texans86
09-21-2006, 09:44 PM
Where's Ko Simpson starting right now? I haven't heard anything about him, but that doesn't mean he isn't being productive. You probably should put some information up about him if you are going to have a decent comparison. So far I know Owen has done very well, and has at least one touchdown. That's not too bad for a rookie. If he can get one more per game he might set a record. Doubtful, but its still possible.

TFL
09-21-2006, 09:48 PM
Where's Ko Simpson starting right now? I haven't heard anything about him, but that doesn't mean he isn't being productive. You probably should put some information up about him if you are going to have a decent comparison. So far I know Owen has done very well, and has at least one touchdown. That's not too bad for a rookie. If he can get one more per game he might set a record. Doubtful, but its still possible.

With the bills. I think he starts for them.

Reddevil63
09-21-2006, 09:54 PM
95% of what's posted on this forum are "what ifs"... i thought you'd be used to it by now

Pre-draft talk should be what ifs, after the fact what good does it do to sit around and think "what if we had this guy"

mexican_texan
09-21-2006, 10:11 PM
With the bills. I think he starts for them.
I think that was OJ.

AustinJB
09-21-2006, 10:29 PM
You probably should put some information up about him if you are going to have a decent comparison.

Owen Daniels
Game 1 - no stats
Game 2 - 4 receptions, 45 yds, 1 TD

Ko Simpson
Game 1 - 4 solo, 3 assists
Game 2 - 1 solo, 3 assists, 1 sack

FWIW

dat_boy_yec
09-21-2006, 10:46 PM
At this point Simpson. I mean c'mon Daniels may be the better pick in the long run, but right now Brown is killing me. Daniels made what a TD, Simpson might have prevented what 2-3 touchdowns. I mean maybe Simpson would have had enough sense not to have just pushed that receiver down in the endzone and have our INT. called back. K.O. might have had enough sense to stay with Stallworth instead of trying to come up and be SS run support. It's only two games in so right now it's not fair, but as of right now, Simpson would be much nicer. I mean tell me secondary hasn't killed us so far.

Grid
09-21-2006, 10:49 PM
we could go back and see who was the best player available in every round of every draft..and talk about how we could have taken them over *insert player*

doesnt make a difference..pointless topic.. and its kinda sleazy too. Like your mother talking about all the kids she could have adopted if she hadnt had you.

Lets show a bit of respect towards our players.

blockhead83
09-21-2006, 11:10 PM
we could go back and see who was the best player available in every round of every draft..and talk about how we could have taken them over *insert player*

doesnt make a difference..pointless topic.. and its kinda sleazy too. Like your mother talking about all the kids she could have adopted if she hadnt had you.

Lets show a bit of respect towards our players.

Our players will be the first one's to remind you that this is a business. Unfortunately, I think any team loyalty that was once present in the NFL is quickly declining.

LORK 88
09-21-2006, 11:13 PM
If I were to say as of now, Daniels is our TE of the future and im becoming a LaRon Landry fan very quickly. Like everyone has said however, this thread is nothing more than a hypothetical so it gets the 'pointless' title.

Grid
09-21-2006, 11:17 PM
Our players will be the first one's to remind you that this is a business. Unfortunately, I think any team loyalty that was once present in the NFL is quickly declining.

I disagree.. i talk to alot of fans from alot of other teams.. they arent all big homers like myself :D..but team loyalty is still just as prevalent as it was years ago.

And yah..its a business for the players... its a sport and form of entertainment for us. And I bet you $100 bucks that if you go sit in the Texans lockerroom, you wont hear anyone wondering if the team would be better if they had drafted *whoever*.

Partly because its unfair to the players we have, and partly because the past is the past and there is no changing it.. saying "we would have been better off if we had done this" is a pointless exercise. It boils down to whining..and there is nothing constructive or worthwhile about it.

Snapple
09-21-2006, 11:17 PM
Ko Simpson was the best player available at the beginning of the 4th round, I thought. Or maybe even Darnell Bing. We had/have a BIG need at safety, and we passed on potential starting safeties, even in the 4th round. Instead, we took a guy who Wisconsin didn't even like enough to make their starting TE. I was mystified at the pick at the time.

Now, that doesn't mean it was a bad pick necessarily, because I knew very little about Daniels, and obviously the Texans took a closer look at him than I did. I feel like I can comment on Mario vs. Reggie better, because I saw a lot of both of them in college.

If I could go back, and I were the GM, of course I'd take Simpson still. Our defense STILL sucks, in case anyone didn't notice. We have Daniels right now though, so I'd love to be wrong about the pick. He did at least have a decent game in Indy.

blockhead83
09-21-2006, 11:23 PM
I disagree.. i talk to alot of fans from alot of other teams.. they arent all big homers like myself :D..but team loyalty is still just as prevalent as it was years ago.

And yah..its a business for the players... its a sport and form of entertainment for us. And I bet you $100 bucks that if you go sit in the Texans lockerroom, you wont hear anyone wondering if the team would be better if they had drafted *whoever*.

Partly because its unfair to the players we have, and partly because the past is the past and there is no changing it.. saying "we would have been better off if we had done this" is a pointless exercise. It boils down to whining..and there is nothing constructive or worthwhile about it.

I wasn't trying to imply team loyalty was down amongst the fans, but the players. I'm also not trying to say that players sit around wondering what if, but more going in the direction that they could probably care less if the fans ask what if. You still hear a few players whine when traded or released, but it's becoming more and more prevalent for them to come out with the, "Well, it's a business....". It has a very calloused aesthetic to it. I just get the impression alot of players in the NFL are just happy to be collecting their paychecks, and don't really mind where they do it from, or if the fans there wish they were someone else. Just my 2 cents.

Honoring Earl 34
09-21-2006, 11:24 PM
The draft has killed us in the past but the jury is still for the 2006 draft .

Today on 610 sports Lance said that Casserly did not have Shawn Merriman on his draft board . CC did not think he could play OLB in a 3-4 .

Kaiser Toro
09-21-2006, 11:33 PM
The draft has killed us in the past but the jury is still for the 2006 draft .

Today on 610 sports Lance said that Casserly did not have Shawn Merriman on his draft board . CC did not think he could play OLB in a 3-4 .

I got an audio/visual image while reading your post. It was Casserly in the draft war room wearing a mask of Mr. Burns, from the Simpsons, talking on the phone with the theme music from the movie Halloween in the background.

Honoring Earl 34
09-21-2006, 11:38 PM
What happens if the Chargers pick DJ and the Texans passed on Merriman ... who maybe the best defensive player today .

Goldeagle
09-22-2006, 12:06 AM
I said we need Safety help, and we NEED safety help again! Daniels is a nice player but you had 2 decent veteran TEs and one maybe (Joppru).

I just hope we take a safety with the 2 or 3rd pick of this coming draft or make a big move to bring in a proven safety who has some decent speed and/or can read a defense.

dirty steve
09-22-2006, 12:10 AM
What happens if the Chargers pick DJ and the Texans passed on Merriman ... who maybe the best defensive player today .
that means we would have travis johnson, still. do we really have to go over this again..and again. you cant fill every hole in one year.

Honoring Earl 34
09-22-2006, 12:18 AM
The point is that we would have passed on what maybe the best defender in football. What big wide whole were we filling anyway .

dirty steve
09-22-2006, 12:28 AM
i wasnt asking, just showing the reality of what we would still have. you know that Dom Capers and Charley Casserly are no longer employed by the Texans, right?

YoungTexanFan
09-22-2006, 12:29 AM
Look at it like this:

I wanted to trade down, skip Mario, Skip Reggie.

I wanted D'brick and Ko.

I wanted Ko in the FIRST round. I wanted KO in the second round. I wanted KO in the thrid round as well. Simpson will show why he was the top FS before everyone had a man-crush on Whittner and his 40 time. Ko is twice the natural FS that Whittner is.

Honoring Earl 34
09-22-2006, 12:32 AM
i wasnt asking, just showing the reality of what we would still have. you know that Dom Capers and Charley Casserly are no longer employed by the Texans, right?

Clean your act up Steve . The point was how bad the front office was ... sorry you missed it .

TexansSeminole
09-22-2006, 01:26 AM
Daniels is our Putzier. We are pretty set at TE, I like the pick. We need someone alot more talented than Ko Simpson at the FS position.

YoungTexanFan
09-22-2006, 08:10 AM
Daniels is our Putzier. We are pretty set at TE, I like the pick. We need someone alot more talented than Ko Simpson at the FS position.

Like who? Who could we have possibility gotten in the fourth round better than KO? Simpson is better than Landry this year, and to me it's not even close.

real
09-22-2006, 08:53 AM
Ko Simpson was the best player available at the beginning of the 4th round, I thought. Or maybe even Darnell Bing. We had/have a BIG need at safety, and we passed on potential starting safeties, even in the 4th round. Instead, we took a guy who Wisconsin didn't even like enough to make their starting TE. I was mystified at the pick at the time.


Darnell Bing was projected as a linebacker FWIW...that's what he plays for Oakland....

And I watched the Patriots vs. Bills game and Ko Simpson and Donte Whitner both start...Whitner had a pick and would have returned it for a T.D had someone on defense not been holding...Both of them are pretty good....But I think we made the right Move with Daniels because We needed some offensive weapons....

TheOgre
09-22-2006, 08:57 AM
Our secondary needs more work than New Orleans (the city, not the team).

thunderkyss
09-22-2006, 09:14 AM
Darnell Bing was projected as a linebacker FWIW...that's what he plays for Oakland....

And I watched the Patriots vs. Bills game and Ko Simpson and Donte Whitner both start...Whitner had a pick and would have returned it for a T.D had someone on defense not been holding...Both of them are pretty good....But I think we made the right Move with Daniels because We needed some offensive weapons....

But we had Putz & Joppru.........

@ FS, we had CC. Brown & Guss Scott??

Hopefully by mid season David will be throwing the ball well..... (no passes to runningbacks in the indy game........ none to tightends in the philly game) & we'll see Owen Daniels pay off.

I still think we are hurting at linebacker more than Safety. It's just that you're seeing the Safeties come and tackle the guys the LBs forgot to cover.

infantrycak
09-22-2006, 09:27 AM
Hopefully by mid season David will be throwing the ball well..... (no passes to runningbacks in the indy game........ none to tightends in the philly game) & we'll see Owen Daniels pay off.

None huh? Try 7 attempts (2 possibly 3 drops--1 defensed because Daniels didn't block off the defender from the ball, 1 26 yd rec.) to TE's in the Philly game and 8 attempts (1 drop, 6 receptions) to RB's in the Indy game.

gtexan02
09-22-2006, 09:53 AM
To everyone participating - thanks for the votes!

To everyone b****ing about how stupid "what ifs" are, do us all a favor and don't post. Realistically, if you don't like topics like these, all you are doing by posting is a) wasting your time and b) bringing it back up to the top of the board. Do you get some sort of pleasure or power out of telling people their topics are bad? If so, thats pretty embarassing...

Sure you can go back over the years and look at who you missed and think "Id rather have Portis over Pitts" but we were actually targeting both of these players and we needed help in both TE and S, and there was a LOT of debate on who to draft (although no one really saw Daniels as a possibility until we picked him). As such, since we are having SO much trouble at S, yet Daniels is now our starter, I thought it would encite a nice dialogue over whether or not this was a smart move.

gtexan02
09-22-2006, 09:58 AM
we could go back and see who was the best player available in every round of every draft..and talk about how we could have taken them over *insert player*

doesnt make a difference..pointless topic.. and its kinda sleazy too. Like your mother talking about all the kids she could have adopted if she hadnt had you.

Lets show a bit of respect towards our players.

Haha this has got to be one of the most shortsighted posts I've seen recently. Calling this sleezy because its a hypothetical? You do realize that NOTHING we talk about on the messageboards means anything right? We aren't the coaches or the FO. When people start a thread about starting Sage, its a hypothetical situation. When people start a thread critiquing Carr for not throwing to AJ on this play, or not throwing the ball away on that play, its looking back. How is that any different? We are looking back and critiquing how well our FO did in the draft. There are 10000 threads looking back and critiquing how well all our players and coaches did in the game. Does it matter? No. Does it change anything? No. Do the coaches and FO and players read these and change their philosophies? No. So why do we do it? Because its FUN to TALK about football.

I hate how derogatory posters get when they think posts are suddenly not up to some golden standard that means nothing.

The fact is that the majority of people on this board spend their time critiquing something. Whether it be individual players (MW and Carr?) or coahces or FO. The only way to really critique the FO is by looking at past drafts, and seeing whether we drafted correctly. At this point, I think our S do is by far the weakest in the league, and would rather have taken a talent drop off to get a serviceable safety than an amazing TE.

PS: Oh and thanks a lot for the person who negative repp'd me by saying "poor taste." Get off your soap box, I'm getting off mine

real
09-22-2006, 10:01 AM
But we had Putz & Joppru.........

@ FS, we had CC. Brown & Guss Scott??

Hopefully by mid season David will be throwing the ball well..... (no passes to runningbacks in the indy game........ none to tightends in the philly game) & we'll see Owen Daniels pay off.

I still think we are hurting at linebacker more than Safety. It's just that you're seeing the Safeties come and tackle the guys the LBs forgot to cover.

True...But Putz isn't exactly the weapon that Daniels is, and Jopru's been out of commision since he's gotten in the Leauge...Daniels is probably the TE of the future for us...It would have been nice to have simpson, Im not going to lie...And I agree with you on the whole Linebacker thing.....Our Safeties aren't top flight....but I have yet to see a linebacker do anything when the offense passes...It's like we're playing with DL and Secondary...That is what our pass defense feels like...

thunderkyss
09-22-2006, 10:01 AM
None huh? Try 7 attempts (2 possibly 3 drops--1 defensed because Daniels didn't block off the defender from the ball, 1 26 yd rec.) to TE's in the Philly game and 8 attempts (1 drop, 6 receptions) to RB's in the Indy game.

I meant virtually none.......

Kaiser Toro
09-22-2006, 10:01 AM
we could go back and see who was the best player available in every round of every draft..and talk about how we could have taken them over *insert player*

doesnt make a difference..pointless topic.. and its kinda sleazy too. Like your mother talking about all the kids she could have adopted if she hadnt had you.

Lets show a bit of respect towards our players.

I agree wholeheartedly with your post.

gtexan02
09-22-2006, 10:06 AM
Feel free to close this one down if everyone hates it so much.

Sheesh, why is it suddenly so harsh to critique the FO by looking at the most recent draft and wondering whether we made the right choice?

And respecting the players? I don't think a single person has said a negative word about Daniels. Quite the ocntrary, he's received nothing but praise. The only thing people have commented on is that this team is seriously lacking in the S department, and we seem to have a plethora of TEs

real
09-22-2006, 10:13 AM
I meant virtually none.......
http://forums.houstontexans.com/showthread.php?t=28649&highlight=points

Check out Khari's Avatar...

HOU-TEX
09-22-2006, 10:22 AM
I think OD is a great aquisition to the team. He's a combo of Putz and Bruener to a certain extent. He can block pretty darn good and he can obviously catch the ball. That said, you can put me on the Daniels bandwagon. To top it off, he's a great guy. I like the ODs diary stories too.:)

Kaiser Toro
09-22-2006, 10:44 AM
Sheesh, why is it suddenly so harsh to critique the FO by looking at the most recent draft and wondering whether we made the right choice?

You are critiquing something in its infantile stage. Given the need to post this critique, and others of the like, will solicit responses such as mine and others. I do not see the need to take this thread down as there is some food for thought sprinkled around the hyperbole and deflection of responsibility and accountability.

The secondary was a known issue going into the season given our lack of tenure at the Safety positions and uncertainty of P Buch 2.0 delivering. However, injuries (Faggins, PB) have played a part in the already questionable secondary. If we do not go secondary early in the draft or FA, then I will be the first to post a critique of the FO. This ain't my first time to the rodeo.

thunderkyss
09-22-2006, 10:50 AM
True...But Putz isn't exactly the weapon that Daniels is, and Jopru's been out of commision since he's gotten in the Leauge...Daniels is probably the TE of the future for us...It would have been nice to have simpson, Im not going to lie...And I agree with you on the whole Linebacker thing.....Our Safeties aren't top flight....but I have yet to see a linebacker do anything when the offense passes...It's like we're playing with DL and Secondary...That is what our pass defense feels like...

I understand the difference between Putz & Owens.... & I understand we have nothing from Joppru to consider him an answer @ TE.....

We knew we needed a TE to keep the defenses honest...... so we got Putz before the draft. which should move TE down our list of needs...... So we get to the 4th..... maybe Kubiak didn't think the kid should have been there, like some thought Ko wouldn't be there.

Personally, I'd have chosen the best FS over the best TE, using my BPA(with consideration of need) approach. to me, it looks like Kubiak went BPA........ which is fine with me.

http://forums.houstontexans.com/showthread.php?t=28649&highlight=points

Check out Khari's Avatar...

Yeah...... he was trying to help me get that as my Avatar...... but I'm not smart enough to get it to work.

Runner
09-22-2006, 10:57 AM
I understand the difference between Putz & Owens.... & I understand we have nothing from Joppru to consider him an answer @ TE.....


In pre-season Joppru showed both good hands and good speed - I'd like to see him in the regular season.

(I do understand that we saw a lot of good things in pre-season, but speed and catching don't just disappear like some other aspects of the game.).

TheOgre
09-22-2006, 11:07 AM
Rumor has it that KO Simpson isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer. That might have been a chief reason we didn't take him.

eriadoc
09-22-2006, 11:58 AM
The team had no reason to believe Joppru would come back and perform the way he had. So I don't count Joppru in the mix. If we had Simpson, I don't really think he'd be enough to even improve our defense noticeably, much less substantially (at this point). Given that the team had all night to figure out who to take in the 4th round, I'm OK with the Daniels selection. He and Joppru may very well be our tight ends of the future. As many have said, you can't fix everything in one year and as it stands now, our offense at least shows flashes of being pretty good. Our defense has shown less than zero. With Ko Simpson back there, I don't think it would be appreciably better yet. With the tight end's impact on this offense, I do see the TE position making this offense appreciably better (26 yard pass to Putz on 3rd down in week one, 33 yard TD pass to Daniels in game two, etc.).

I'm OK with Daniels. He's proving to be a valuable asset.

thunderkyss
09-22-2006, 12:10 PM
In pre-season Joppru showed both good hands and good speed - I'd like to see him in the regular season.

(I do understand that we saw a lot of good things in pre-season, but speed and catching don't just disappear like some other aspects of the game.).

not only that, but I was speaking from Kubes perspective before this years draft.

Vinny
09-22-2006, 01:04 PM
Yeah...... he was trying to help me get that as my Avatar...... but I'm not smart enough to get it to work.That's what she (Khari is a female) did. You were supposed to copy that and insert it into your avatar spot.

jerek
09-22-2006, 01:24 PM
I meant virtually none.......

I wasn't sure where you were going with that either. 7/26 attempts (27% of pass attempts) and 8/27 (30% of pass attempts) doesn't seem synonomous with "virtually none" to me. Pass the Haterade.

LBC_Justin
09-22-2006, 02:00 PM
Rumor has it that KO Simpson isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer. That might have been a chief reason we didn't take him.
I was pretty high on this guy and for a while I wanted him.

then...From what I heard, he interview horribly, had a questionable football IQ, overall didn't come across and an inteligent guy and then the cherry on top was a 10 on the wonderlic. (I have no hard facts to back this up but this is what was swirling around draft time.)

thunderkyss
09-22-2006, 02:03 PM
That's what she (Khari is a female) did. You were supposed to copy that and insert it into your avatar spot.

woops, sorry Khari....... if it makes you feel better, I thought Texans_Chick was a dude too..... knows too much about football..... hmm.... I keep putting my foot in my mouth.

But I tried that Vinny, & I got the same error message.....

I wasn't sure where you were going with that either. 7/26 attempts (27% of pass attempts) and 8/27 (30% of pass attempts) doesn't seem synonomous with "virtually none" to me. Pass the Haterade.

....... I keep putting my foot in my mouth.

HOU-TEX
09-22-2006, 02:03 PM
I was pretty high on this guy and for a while I wanted him.

then...From what I heard, he interview horribly, had a questionable football IQ, overall didn't come across and an inteligent guy and then the cherry on top was a 10 on the wonderlic. (I have no hard facts to back this up but this is what was swirling around draft time.)

There was also a wonderlic score of 6 going around for a little while too.:hides:

Sorry

wags
09-22-2006, 03:14 PM
Ko is a great safety and will be a good NFL player. Daniels seems to be good and it's hard to say I don't want that guy who just caught a 30 yard TD pass in the last game. I wanted Ko before the draft, but Daniels is working nicely.

Translation- we have so many holes to fill, one player ain't making a big difference.

AlbinoRat
09-22-2006, 03:32 PM
At this point Simpson. I mean c'mon Daniels may be the better pick in the long run, but right now Brown is killing me. Daniels made what a TD, Simpson might have prevented what 2-3 touchdowns. I mean maybe Simpson would have had enough sense not to have just pushed that receiver down in the endzone and have our INT. called back. K.O. might have had enough sense to stay with Stallworth instead of trying to come up and be SS run support. It's only two games in so right now it's not fair, but as of right now, Simpson would be much nicer. I mean tell me secondary hasn't killed us so far.

Did anybody else happen to see Brown lay Marvin Harrison out in the endzone last week? It was on Earls pick that got called back cause of browns interference. Ko Simpson by the way, just cause our secondary is so bad. I think we might have been able to pick daniels up in the fifth or sixth anyway.

Kaiser Toro
09-22-2006, 03:33 PM
There was also a wonderlic score of 6 going around for a little while too.:hides:

Sorry

And it was thrown under the chair your smilie is hiding under as it was a 16.

rmartin65
09-22-2006, 03:35 PM
Owens is looking like he could be pretty good in this league. I am glad we took him.

jerek
09-22-2006, 03:36 PM
And it was thrown under the chair your smilie is hiding under as it was a 16.

Not that anyone is going to believe me or really care -- because as we've said a million times now, the Wonderlic doesn't mean an awful lot on the football field -- but he really did score a 6 the first time out. That's what my people at the combine told me, and I would place a lot of faith in the validity of their connections and that information at that point.

Kaiser Toro
09-22-2006, 03:37 PM
Not that anyone is going to believe me or really care -- because as we've said a million times now, the Wonderlic doesn't mean an awful lot on the football field -- but he really did score a 6 the first time out. That's what my people at the combine told me, and I would place a lot of faith in the validity of their connections and that information at that point.

And he really did score a 16

jerek
09-22-2006, 03:40 PM
And he really did score a 16

LOL yes but geez have you seen these things? 16 is a bad score for a first time, let alone getting to retake the thing.

Any way, no need to resurrect that. My apologies if anyone thought I really wanted to do so.

HOU-TEX
09-22-2006, 03:43 PM
And it was thrown under the chair your smilie is hiding under as it was a 16.

IIRC, He scored a 6 before the 16. I should've never posted it to begin with. My apologies.

TexansSeminole
09-22-2006, 03:44 PM
Like who? Who could we have possibility gotten in the fourth round better than KO? Simpson is better than Landry this year, and to me it's not even close.

You're right there was none there, I am not sayin we should have drafted one that year. We need a more talented FS period. Only time will tell if Landry is better than Simpson, I think Landry and Griffin are both better.

TexansSeminole
09-22-2006, 03:53 PM
If we had Simpson, I don't really think he'd be enough to even improve our defense noticeably, much less substantially (at this point).

Simpson would definantely improve our secondary but obvisiously not more than the coaches felt Daniels could do for our offensive attack.